Just don't get Barron

[TXCowboyVol]

Roy Williams was more decorated and highly-touted coming out of OU than Barron, and we all know how that ended up. Maybe I'm missing something here...please compare and contrast the 2 styles. I just see RW all over again...

[myslamsareolder]

God I am getting so sick of people comparing him to RW31... Roy couldn't cover to save his life. Barron is actually very good in coverage... that's all you need to know. He is a better complete player.

[casmith07]

Roy was an in the box, hard hitting run stuffer in college.

Barron has been a cover safety. Two entirely different guys.

[CowboysLaw87]

Also let's not forget how awesome Roy was in his first 4 or 5 years here. Make no mistake about it... if a Roy Williams clone (prospect out of college, not circa 2008) was there we'd take him in a heartbeat.

[TheDallasDon]

God I am getting so sick of people comparing him to RW31... Roy couldn't cover to save his life. Barron is actually very good in coverage... that's all you need to know. He is a better complete player.

He reminds me of Sean Taylor with better ball and coverage skills, instincts, and leadership.

[Avery]

RW could have continued to be good if he would have lost weight instead of gained it.

[BIGDen]

Also let's not forget how awesome Roy was in his first 4 or 5 years here. Make no mistake about it... if a Roy Williams clone (prospect out of college, not circa 2008) was there we'd take him in a heartbeat.

If you really look at how he played, I would say he was very good his first 2 years. After that, he started getting exposed IMO. I know he kept making Pro Bowls, but I don't believe they were deserved.

[jamesdojr]

Im worried about thos pick alot. When all the scouting reports first came out, they said he was an in the box safety that didnt cover well. Obviously they based that off his on field performance. Because the combine hadnt taken place. In addition he was considered a 2nd rnd pick. Now we are taking him with the 14th pick. Ive youtubed him. I dont see him coverimg alot and intercepting passes. I see him hitting hard. Im seriously worried aboit this, if we do take him. Id feel alot better if we traded down to the 20s and got him anf an extra 2 or 3. I just dont see what has changed that shot him into the lower teens. I dont think he will be the best player on the board at 14. Which means we will be picking him because we need a safety, not picking bpa.

uote=CowboysLaw87;4516341]Also let's not forget how awesome Roy was in his first 4 or 5 years here. Make no mistake about it... if a Roy Williams clone (prospect out of college, not circa 2008) was there we'd take him in a heartbeat.[/quote]

[Marktui]

Bama played a sophisticated defense where Barron was the signal caller in the secondary. He played in the box, centerfield and also was used in the slot occasionally. He looks like he is well versed in playing coverage schemes. He stays in his depth when playing centerfield and keeps balls in front of him.

His tackling seems sound. He wraps up and keeps the player in front of him to make the stop. Takes good angles so he doesn't over run the play and have to reach out and make a horse collar tackle. He still needs work though, I saw him leave his feet to try and tackle smaller quicker players.

I think he is more versatile than Roy coming out of college, where RW was never asked to cover TE's, slot receivers and backs. Stoops knew RW's strength was to keep him in the box and let him seek out and destroy running plays.

Barron is not the second coming of Ed Reed or Troy P, but to compare him to RW could be a big mistake.

[theogt]

Im worried about thos pick alot. When all the scouting reports first came out, they said he was an in the box safety that didnt cover well. Obviously they based that off his on field performance. Because the combine hadnt taken place. In addition he was considered a 2nd rnd pick. Now we are taking him with the 14th pick. Ive youtubed him. I dont see him coverimg alot and intercepting passes. I see him hitting hard. Im seriously worried aboit this, if we do take him. Id feel alot better if we traded down to the 20s and got him anf an extra 2 or 3. I just dont see what has changed that shot him into the lower teens. I dont think he will be the best player on the board at 14. Which means we will be picking him because we need a safety, not picking bpa.

uote=CowboysLaw87;4516341]Also let's not forget how awesome Roy was in his first 4 or 5 years here. Make no mistake about it... if a Roy Williams clone (prospect out of college, not circa 2008) was there we'd take him in a heartbeat.[/QUOTE]They really didn't all say that, though. Maybe one or two did, but pretty much everyone has said all along that this guy can cover.

[Wulfman]

They really didn't all say that, though. Maybe one or two did, but pretty much everyone has said all along that this guy can cover.

This. I was going to ask who you were listening to in the previous post, James, because there were only a couple that were talking about him being strictly an in-the-box safety. The ones who had actually watched his film for the past couple of years knew that he was asked to play that role more last year, but has proven he can do both.

[The Realist]

The people who are worried are uninformed.

[Sarge]

The people who are worried are uninformed.

:signmast:

[RS12]

RW made alot of money of that Chris Simms hit in the TU/OU game.

[ddh33]

One of the things that annoys me about the Roy Williams talk is how people seem to forget that Dallas got near Hall of Fame production from him for a while. His first five years or so were a raging success. Yeah, he fell off afterwards, but I think most teams would take that kind of production from a first round draft pick. Don't act like he was some kind of failure.

The game changed on him, and he couldn't adjust. But he was great for a while.

[jimnabby]

To my mind, Roy Williams was correctly evaluated as a top 10 pick and played like a top 10 pick for several years. The fact that he faded unusually early in his career is irrelevant, unless you believe that there was some way to foresee that before the draft. Roy was a success of the Cowboys' draft process, not a failure.

[Beast_from_East]

Roy Williams was more decorated and highly-touted coming out of OU than Barron, and we all know how that ended up. Maybe I'm missing something here...please compare and contrast the 2 styles. I just see RW all over again...

The big difference........................Coverage abiltiy.


RW could not cover my grandmother with her walker, seriously. Barron is not Ed Reed or Palamaluo, but he played "center feild" alot at Bama and played it very, very well.


Barron may not be a probowl safety, but he could start day 1 for over half the teams in the league. I still prefer DeCastro at 14, but if we do end up with Barron I am not going to lose sleep over it.

[Chocolate Lab]

One of the things that annoys me about the Roy Williams talk is how people seem to forget that Dallas got near Hall of Fame production from him for a while. His first five years or so were a raging success. Yeah, he fell off afterwards, but I think most teams would take that kind of production from a first round draft pick. Don't act like he was some kind of failure.

The game changed on him, and he couldn't adjust. But he was great for a while.

Yep, he was a BAMF for a couple of years. Barron's best will likely never be as good as Roy's best. Probably not even close.

That doesn't mean he couldn't be a good pick, though I'm really not that sold on him from what little I've seen.

[Manwiththeplan]

He reminds me of Sean Taylor with better ball and coverage skills, instincts, and leadership.

wow, i don't see sean taylor in barron at all

[VACowboy]

Yep, he was a BAMF for a couple of years. Barron's best will likely never be as good as Roy's best. Probably not even close.

That doesn't mean he couldn't be a good pick, though I'm really not that sold on him from what little I've seen.


This is how I feel exactly.

[Bizwah]

Several posters hit on this earlier....but Roy Williams was a great player for several years.

Yes, he could cover early in his career. Quite well actually. I can remember one play in particular his rookie year where he covered Jimmy Smith of the Jags one-on-one, ran with him, then made a spectacular pick.

He had five picks his rookie year....a couple returned for TDs.

A couple of things hurt him.

1. Losing Darren Woodson. Woody got RW lined up....made him study film...pushed him. When Woody left, you could see RW confused. He began to get very, very heavy.

2. He never had, IMO, a solid work-ethic. The biggest concern I had for RW came from an interview I heard him give right before the draft. He was asked where he saw himself in five years. He said something to the effect of "retired" or "relaxing"....IMO, he never really wanted to be an NFL player.

[cowdogg]

Roy was a Man creature and a game changer in his first couple years. When he ran down a Giant and punched the ball through the end zone, when he sent a message to Emmitt on his first run of the game, When he crushed T.O. and had a rule named after his technique, finally when he picked off Mcnabb and won the game for Parcels. When they invented the horse collar rule, He became a shadow of himself. I felt like I lost my dog. I wondered why he couldnt change a game anymore. He just lost his Mojo

[Dash28]

The people who are worried are uninformed.
Exactly.

[jamesdojr]

Two??? Here are the five of the first 6 I pulled just now.... All of them question his ability to be really good in pass coverage.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012mbarron.php

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/3/7/2852483/mark-barron-2012-nfl-draft-scouting-report

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=81868&draftyear=2012&genpos=SS
Read the 4/19/12 report

http://www.footballnation.com/content/2012-nfl-draft-mark-barron-scouting-report/14120/

http://nfldraftgeek.com/markbarron.html


I mean, obviously I overstated when I said ALL. Obviously I didn't read every scouting report on earth. But I remember alot of scouting reports questioned his ability to cover. I remember this and it stood out to me because I love the safety position. I played safety all through HS and 1 year college. So every year, especially with Dallas needing one, I start scouring the safety position like mad. The reports I read turned me off to the idea of taking him even in later picks because they never said he was a ballhawk type of guy which is what I think we need. Now all of the sudden, everything has changed. Now all the sudden he's a ballhawk. If anything I think there is a lot of debate as to whether or not he's good in coverage. That debate makes me worried to take the guy with our 14th pick in the draft. I don't like the pick at all.
__________________________________________________ ______

They really didn't all say that, though. Maybe one or two did, but pretty much everyone has said all along that this guy can cover.[/quote]

[Fla Cowpoke]

Several posters hit on this earlier....but Roy Williams was a great player for several years.

Yes, he could cover early in his career. Quite well actually. I can remember one play in particular his rookie year where he covered Jimmy Smith of the Jags one-on-one, ran with him, then made a spectacular pick.

He had five picks his rookie year....a couple returned for TDs.

A couple of things hurt him.

1. Losing Darren Woodson. Woody got RW lined up....made him study film...pushed him. When Woody left, you could see RW confused. He began to get very, very heavy.

2. He never had, IMO, a solid work-ethic. The biggest concern I had for RW came from an interview I heard him give right before the draft. He was asked where he saw himself in five years. He said something to the effect of "retired" or "relaxing"....IMO, he never really wanted to be an NFL player.

The bold part is the big thing. Roy didn't have a passion for football. He played it because he was good at it and could make a lot of money doing it. But he never cared for working hard or trying to improve himself.

Secondly, Roy Williams was a pure strong safety. Barron is much more well rounded. Roy could lay people out, that really isn't Barron's game. As for Barron's stock rising, there are always risers, and there are always fallers. Barron's rise is due to the fact that he has shown himself to be a pretty good athlete and the tape confirms his abilities.

I don't have any concerns over us taking him.

[SilverStarCowboy]

Two??? Here are the five of the first 6 I pulled just now.... All of them question his ability to be really good in pass coverage.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012mbarron.php

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/3/7/2852483/mark-barron-2012-nfl-draft-scouting-report

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=81868&draftyear=2012&genpos=SS
Read the 4/19/12 report

http://www.footballnation.com/content/2012-nfl-draft-mark-barron-scouting-report/14120/

http://nfldraftgeek.com/markbarron.html


I mean, obviously I overstated when I said ALL. Obviously I didn't read every scouting report on earth. But I remember alot of scouting reports questioned his ability to cover. I remember this and it stood out to me because I love the safety position. I played safety all through HS and 1 year college. So every year, especially with Dallas needing one, I start scouring the safety position like mad. The reports I read turned me off to the idea of taking him even in later picks because they never said he was a ballhawk type of guy which is what I think we need. Now all of the sudden, everything has changed. Now all the sudden he's a ballhawk. If anything I think there is a lot of debate as to whether or not he's good in coverage. That debate makes me worried to take the guy with our 14th pick in the draft. I don't like the pick at all.
__________________________________________________ ______

They really didn't all say that, though. Maybe one or two did, but pretty much everyone has said all along that this guy can cover.[/quote]



:signmast: :fact::signmast: :fact: :signmast:

[Fla Cowpoke]

Two??? Here are the five of the first 6 I pulled just now.... All of them question his ability to be really good in pass coverage.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012mbarron.php

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/3/7/2852483/mark-barron-2012-nfl-draft-scouting-report

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=81868&draftyear=2012&genpos=SS
Read the 4/19/12 report

http://www.footballnation.com/content/2012-nfl-draft-mark-barron-scouting-report/14120/

http://nfldraftgeek.com/markbarron.html


I mean, obviously I overstated when I said ALL. Obviously I didn't read every scouting report on earth. But I remember alot of scouting reports questioned his ability to cover. I remember this and it stood out to me because I love the safety position. I played safety all through HS and 1 year college. So every year, especially with Dallas needing one, I start scouring the safety position like mad. The reports I read turned me off to the idea of taking him even in later picks because they never said he was a ballhawk type of guy which is what I think we need. Now all of the sudden, everything has changed. Now all the sudden he's a ballhawk. If anything I think there is a lot of debate as to whether or not he's good in coverage. That debate makes me worried to take the guy with our 14th pick in the draft. I don't like the pick at all.
__________________________________________________ ______

They really didn't all say that, though. Maybe one or two did, but pretty much everyone has said all along that this guy can cover.[/QUOTE]

I pulled up the first report listed...Walter Football

Here is their summary

Strengths:
Very Instinctive
Playmaker
Hard hitter
Form tackler
Excellent in run support
Plays well in tackle box
Smart
Athletic
Plus ball skills
Takes good angles
Can cover tight ends and backs
Bigger than most safeties
Durable
Experienced 3-year starter



Weaknesses:
Had coverage lapses in 2010
Lacks elite speed, but runs well

Out of all that, the one thing you picked up on was that he had coverage lapses in 2010. That's a whole year ago. The article goes on to say he rebounded strongly last year. Was all over the place. Jumps off the film. Always seems to be in the right spot in pass coverage. Yet you are making a snippet proof that he can't cover?

Nice agenda.

[Tony33]

I'd prefer help on the line instead of a safety.

[Fla Cowpoke]

Ps...he was playing with a hernia last year that required off season surgery. Don't think that might make a difference?

Kid is a stud. I prefer DeCastro myself, but Barron is no joke.

[DFWJC]

He reminds me of Sean Taylor with better ball and coverage skills, instincts, and leadership.
What the".......
That's crazy

[Picksix]

Roy Williams was more decorated and highly-touted coming out of OU than Barron, and we all know how that ended up. Maybe I'm missing something here...please compare and contrast the 2 styles. I just see RW all over again...

Darren Woodson wasn't all that "decorated" when he came out of school. The guy was a LB in college for cryin' out loud. And we all know how that ended up.

Two??? Here are the five of the first 6 I pulled just now.... All of them question his ability to be really good in pass coverage.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012mbarron.php

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/3/7/2852483/mark-barron-2012-nfl-draft-scouting-report

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=81868&draftyear=2012&genpos=SS
Read the 4/19/12 report

http://www.footballnation.com/content/2012-nfl-draft-mark-barron-scouting-report/14120/

http://nfldraftgeek.com/markbarron.html


I mean, obviously I overstated when I said ALL. Obviously I didn't read every scouting report on earth. But I remember alot of scouting reports questioned his ability to cover. I remember this and it stood out to me because I love the safety position. I played safety all through HS and 1 year college. So every year, especially with Dallas needing one, I start scouring the safety position like mad. The reports I read turned me off to the idea of taking him even in later picks because they never said he was a ballhawk type of guy which is what I think we need. Now all of the sudden, everything has changed. Now all the sudden he's a ballhawk. If anything I think there is a lot of debate as to whether or not he's good in coverage. That debate makes me worried to take the guy with our 14th pick in the draft. I don't like the pick at all.
__________________________________________________ ______

They really didn't all say that, though. Maybe one or two did, but pretty much everyone has said all along that this guy can cover.[/quote]

Well, if all those "experts" said he can't cover, it must be true.

[InmanRoshi]

People put way too much weight into the opinions of these free internet draft sites. Especially what these guys said 5 months ago, many of whom said RG3 was a 2nd round or late 1st round draft pick and Quintin Coples should go Top 5.
Most of these guys just regurgitate opinions they read from other free internet draft sites. It's funny hearing these wildly conflicting opinions on players from real scouts on JSOnline, but most of these writeups on these free draft sites almost sound identical to each other word for word.


The guys who have worked in NFL front offices or get their information from NFL front offices love the guy. I'll take that over what www.draftdork.com has to say.


AlbertBreer Speaking of ... Not surprised by Barron's rise. Here's why: Hard to find a college safety who had as much responsibility mentally as he did.
Thursday, April 19, 2012 05:51 PM

AlbertBreer Scout/execs say less & less is being asked of college safeties in directing traffic in secondary. But Saban had Barron doing plenty of that.
Thursday, April 19, 2012 05:52 PM

AlbertBreer @RapSheet You'd know better than I would, but I heard Saban trusted him to a pretty serious degree to run the show. True captain back there.
Thursday, April 19, 2012 05:53 PM

The only time Roy Williams was pointing at teammates and directing them is after opponents were running for TDs after a busted coverage.

[BAT]

Darren Woodson wasn't all that "decorated" when he came out of school. The guy was a LB in college for cryin' out loud. And we all know how that ended up.



Well, if all those "experts" said he can't cover, it must be true.[/QUOTE]

Darren Woodson is a poor example to compare with Barron. Woodson was such an exceptional athlete (legit 4.4 at 220 lbs), that NFL teams did not know where he would play in the pros. He played multiple positions at ASU under Lovie Smith - safety, LB and even rush end. Jimmy, a former college coach, loved his versatility, athleticism, hard hitting ability and most of all his speed. While the NFL, at that time, eschewed these adaptable athletes, Jimmy coveted them. IMO Woodson would have succeeded at multiple pro positions - safety, LB or even corner.

It was a complete travesty that Woodson was not included on the 90's All Decade Team. He did not even make the 2nd team. Lott was on the downside of his career, made fewer All Pros and Butler made fewer Pro Bowls. Not to mention that Woodson was the best player on the best D during the 90's.

And Jerry needs to induct Woody into the ROH pronto.

[Picksix]

Darren Woodson is a poor example to compare with Barron. Woodson was such an exceptional athlete (legit 4.4 at 220 lbs), that NFL teams did not know where he would play in the pros. He played multiple positions at ASU under Lovie Smith - safety, LB and even rush end. Jimmy, a former college coach, loved his versatility, athleticism, hard hitting ability and most of all his speed. While the NFL, at that time, eschewed these adaptable athletes, Jimmy coveted them. IMO Woodson would have succeeded at multiple pro positions - safety, LB or even corner.

It was a complete travesty that Woodson was not included on the 90's All Decade Team. He did not even make the 2nd team. Lott was on the downside of his career, made fewer All Pros and Butler made fewer Pro Bowls. Not to mention that Woodson was the best player on the best D during the 90's.

And Jerry needs to induct Woody into the ROH pronto.

I totally agree with you about Woodson. The guy was a great player. But he still wasn't all that "decorated" (at least to my recollection). Maybe he was, and I just don't remember. I was a lot younger then.

My point was - much like yours - of a faulty comparison. Just because a guy gets a lot of awards and hype, and flames out, doesn't mean we shouldn't take a guy who plays the same position, on the basis that he didn't get all that stuff.

[BAT]

I totally agree with you about Woodson. The guy was a great player. But he still wasn't all that "decorated" (at least to my recollection). Maybe he was, and I just don't remember. I was a lot younger then.

My point was - much like yours - of a faulty comparison. Just because a guy gets a lot of awards and hype, and flames out, doesn't mean we shouldn't take a guy who plays the same position, on the basis that he didn't get all that stuff.

You are right, being heralded in college does not necessarily mean it will translate to the pros. But Woody was certainly decorated coming out of ASU. He was All Pac-10 first team twice, and second team once. Woody is also in the ASU Hall of Fame.

His senior year he made the 2nd team (All Pac 10) and was certainly undersized for LB. You also have to recall that the 4-3 was not as popular a D scheme during that period (in the NFL), and bigger was better. Jimmy coveted speed and his 4-3 was considerably different than the more popular 3-4, or even the traditional 4-3 being played at the time.

If Woody did not pan out at safety, he would have been moved to OLB IMO. Woodson not only succeeded at SS, he was also the team's best nickel LB and slot corner (usually the best cover corner).