KC Chiefs predicted to take David Decastro at 11

[brooksey1]

With Jamaal Charles coming back fresh off ACL surgery and the addition of Peyton Hillis, GM Scott Pioli will be looking to bolster the offensive line in this years draft. He has a history of drafting lineman early and with addition of Decastro and Winston all of a sudden the Chiefs will be playing behind the one of the best offensive lines in football.

http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kansas-city-chiefs/2012/4/24/2970756/nfl-mock-draft-2012-chiefs-david-decastro-cbs

[NeonDeion21]

With Jamaal Charles coming back fresh off ACL surgery and the addition of Peyton Hillis, GM Scott Pioli will be looking to bolster the offensive line in this years draft. He has a history of drafting lineman early and with addition of Decastro and Winston all of a sudden the Chiefs will be playing behind the one of the best offensive lines in football.

http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kansas-city-chiefs/2012/4/24/2970756/nfl-mock-draft-2012-chiefs-david-decastro-cbs

So with Cox going in the top 10, Barron at #10, DeCastro at 11, there will be no one for us to draft. :laugh2:

[JohnsKey19]

So basically 20 players are predicted to go to the top 11 teams. Should be an interesting 1st round.

[SDogo]

So with Cox going in the top 10, Barron at #10, DeCastro at 11, there will be no one for us to draft. :laugh2:

Brockers........get ready

[Muhast]

Brockers........get ready


I am going to be livid if that happens. He is literally the only player in the first that we are linked to that I want nothing to do with.

[Idgit]

Brockers........get ready

I know people dislike him, but that's a pretty good consolation prize at a position of need if we end up going that route.

[SDogo]

I know people dislike him, but that's a pretty good consolation prize at a position of need if we end up going that route.

I don't have an issue with it but I see it's VERY unpopular around these parts. :laugh2:

[Dash28]

I am going to be livid if that happens. He is literally the only player in the first that we are linked to that I want nothing to do with.

Ditto

[Muhast]

If that is the reality of it, stay at 14 and grab Brockers or trade down, we should trade down.

Give me McClellin and an additional 2nd or 3rd any day.

[Idgit]

I don't have an issue with it but I see it's VERY unpopular around these parts. :laugh2:

The same people are probably on record saying there's no way he falls to us sometime over the last 3-4 weeks.

[InmanRoshi]

That would be pretty sweet. Keeps them away from Zeitler and Konz in the 2nd round.

[GloryDaysRBack]

this is perfect...im absolutely locked in on barron..i dont want anybody else..i dont care who goes top 13..as long barron isnt one of em

[casmith07]

I've called my shot in a few other threads, and I'll do it again.

Selecting Brockers is selecting a Marcus Spears clone. We will see more "run-stuffing" and nothing else from the DE spot with that selection.

And unlike the trollific "I hope I'm wrong" caveats posted along with it, if Brockers is the pick I legitimately hope I'm wrong to the benefit of the Dallas Cowboys.

[xwalker]

I don't have an issue with it but I see it's VERY unpopular around these parts. :laugh2:

I just don't get it with Brockers. I keep hoping that someone can 'splain it to me.

[johnnyd]

I am going to be livid if that happens. He is literally the only player in the first that we are linked to that I want nothing to do with.

add coples, poe and upshaw to that list for me.

[Wulfman]

I honestly can't believe there's a rumor that ANYONE is going to get picked by a team in front of the Cowboys other than Mark Barron! You mean KC doesn't want to take him and pair him with Eric Berry to have the best tandem in the league, moving whoever they already have there to LB or waterboy or something?!?

Wow!

[casmith07]

I honestly can't believe there's a rumor that ANYONE is going to get picked by a team in front of the Cowboys other than Mark Barron! You mean KC doesn't want to take him and pair him with Eric Berry to have the best tandem in the league, moving whoever they already have there to LB or waterboy or something?!?

Wow!


:laugh2:

This just in, Seahawks rumored to look to snag Nick Foles in the 6th ahead of Dallas :D

[funkytown]

If Cox, Barron, Decastro are gone please PLEASE trade down.

There is value in this draft in the twenties. #14 seems like a dead spot now. All the guys we really want will go before 14, the guys grouped from 12-22 all grade out about the same.

Goes in line with what Gosselin said. 5-6 blue chip guys, and 20 guys with 1st round grades.

[a_minimalist]

If Cox, Barron, Decastro are gone please PLEASE trade down.

There is value in this draft in the twenties. #14 seems like a dead spot now. All the guys we really want will go before 14, the guys grouped from 12-22 all grade out about the same.

Goes in line with what Gosselin said. 5-6 blue chip guys, and 20 guys with 1st round grades.

the problem with trading down is that you need to find someone who wants to trade up. i'm sure the people at those spots know the same thing you just said.

[fifaguy]

the problem with trading down is that you need to find someone who wants to trade up. i'm sure the people at those spots know the same thing you just said.

What teams might try and trade up as far as we know? Patriots, Browns, Chargers, maybe Eagles?

[a_minimalist]

What teams might try and trade up as far as we know? Patriots, Browns, Chargers, maybe Eagles?

Maybe the pats and browns. but if the pats do it will be in front of 14, same with the eagles and i don't see the browns moving. why do they need to? i'm no expert though.

[fifaguy]

Maybe the pats and browns. but if the pats do it will be in front of 14, same with the eagles and i don't see the browns moving. why do they need to? i'm no expert though.

Yeah I'm not really sure with the Browns. All I know is they have a ton of picks thanks to the Falcons. I think they would be trading up possibly for Tannehil, although I don't understand the hype behind that guy.

[fifaguy]

Or for a WR, if they go with Trent Richardson at 4

[CATCH17]

I don't have an issue with it but I see it's VERY unpopular around these parts. :laugh2:

Same.

I won't do cartwheels but I think the pick will make us better if the guy can collapse the pocket.

[The Realist]

I'm going to be very disappointed if/when we go Brockers in 1 and Brandon Taylor in 3.

[Gaede]

I can live w/ Brockers. Not my favourite, but I was also dead set against Tyron last year. I also fully expect Decastro to be there at`14.

The pick that will really upset me is Poe. Or trading down for a lesser talented player--we've a chance to get an excellent prospect..Would really hate another Jason Williams draft

[Double Trouble]

I'm not a big fan of Brockers, but comparing him to Spears seems off.

Spears was a defensive end who was light on his feet for a big man, one of the few 300 lbers that was successful on the outside. The Cowboys scheme took away what Spears did best. He was a big guy but was best one on one with an OT.

To me, a better comparison for Brockers at this point - collegiately - is Albert Haynesworth. Huge guy, very young, but not a lot of production to show for his glimpses of talent while in college, who benefitted from playing with some good veteran players around him, and then entered the draft early. I want to think Haynesworth had like 1.5 sacks his junior year, but then was drafted high. Not comparing attitudes... at least hopefully, because I'd say there's a very good chance he's a Cowboy in less than 48 hrs.

[The Realist]

I'm not a big fan of Brockers, but comparing him to Spears seems off.

Spears was a defensive end who was light on his feet for a big man, one of the few 300 lbers that was successful on the outside. The Cowboys scheme took away what Spears did best. He was a big guy but was best one on one with an OT.

To me, a better comparison for Brockers at this point - collegiately - is Albert Haynesworth. Huge guy, very young, but not a lot of production to show for his glimpses of talent while in college, who benefitted from playing with some good veteran players around him, and then entered the draft early. I want to think Haynesworth had like 1.5 sacks his junior year, but then was drafted high. Not comparing attitudes... at least hopefully, because I'd say there's a very good chance he's a Cowboy in less than 48 hrs.


So we should expect even less pass rush than Spears from Brockers?

[theogt]

With about 16 players going in the first 10 picks, we don't stand a chance in this draft.

[DWAREZ]

I don't have an issue with it but I see it's VERY unpopular around these parts. :laugh2:

Brockers is not my top choice, however, I can see that with his size and upside why some teams are enamored with him as a prospect.

[1LoyalCowboyFan]

Same.

I won't do cartwheels but I think the pick will make us better if the guy can collapse the pocket.


If we take him at 14 and he collapses the pocket consistently..we will all love him at 14.

[28 Joker]

Peter Konz is still lurking and could fall to round 2. Let's hope so, anyway. Konz would be a day one starer in Dallas. Perhaps, the Cowboys would make a move for a falling Konz if DeCastro is gone or not drafted by Dallas at 14.

I'd be shocked if the Chiefs passed on Poe. We'll see.

If DeCastro is gone or not the pick, Brockers, Poe, Kirkpatrick, and Upshaw would all fit in Dallas and provide significant young, upgrades. Again, Kirkpatrick and Upshaw fit on the field and in the salary cap, too.

They can't take them all before 14.

[Beast_from_East]

Brockers........get ready


Lets see, we were 6th against the rush last year and 25th in defensive passer rating.

Solution...................lets us the 14th pick on a run stuffer.

:bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

[Zaxor]

really to be totally honest I just want a guy who makes a difference were ever he plays and who ever the Cowboys choose I will be hoping he is that difference maker..I have my own preferences to where I would like that impact the most but in the end this team needs upgrading and if it is a Brockers that does it I am fine with it, same with DeCastro, Barron, Cox or anyone else we select and I hope the ones we don't select aren't as good as the ones the Cowboys got

[burmafrd]

if we take Brockers I am shutting off the TV and looking for a lawyer to kill.

[Ren]

I just don't get it with Brockers. I keep hoping that someone can 'splain it to me.

Would you spend the #14 overall pick on Marcus Spears?

[SMCowboy]

I just don't get it with Brockers. I keep hoping that someone can 'splain it to me.

If you really want to know why Scouts love Brockers, is because they see and understand why his sacks are not there yet.

The big reason why teams are not scared away by his lack of production in college, is because he is coming out as a Sophomore. Very few Sophomore DT's put up good sack numbers. Rushing the passer as an interior lineman, is a skill you have to learn. But, they appear to see the ability to rush the passer if he is given the time to learn.

In the end, with Brockers you absolutely are drafting a raw talent, that will need a year or two to fully realize his potential (if he ever does). But, they also know that while he will need a year or two to realize his full potential, he is able and ready to step in and be a dominate run stuffer from day 1. And while if that is need all he ends up being, it would be a disappointment, guys like that while not worth the #14 pick, certainly are worth a late first round DP. But, if he does learn to rush the passer, he would be worthy of a top 5 pick in the draft.

Scouts are not seeing Michael Brockers as the "boom or bust" pick, that many fans a see him as. They are seeing a guy who is a very safe pick, and will play in the league for 8 to 10 years as an Igor Olshansky even if he never does learn to rush the passer. But, if he does learn to rush the passer you have a 20 year old Richard Seymour. They see a guy who a TON of upside, but very little downside.

[SMCowboy]

Would you spend the #14 overall pick on Marcus Spears?

Would I spend the #14 pick someone that I knew for a fact would turn out to be Marcus Spears, no. But, would I spend the #25 pick on someone that I knew would be Marcus Spears, absolutely.

That is why Scouts are so high on Michael Brockers. At worst, he turns into another Marcus Spears, or Igor Olshansky. Both are guys who where very good against the run, and have lasted 8 to 10 years in the league.

Fans see another Marcus Spears who can not rush the passer. Scouts see an even more dominate Ndamukong Suh after his Sophomore year.

[burmafrd]

If you really want to know why Scouts love Brockers, is because they see and understand why his sacks are not there yet.

The big reason why teams are not scared away by his lack of production in college, is because he is coming out as a Sophomore. Very few Sophomore DT's put up good sack numbers. Rushing the passer as an interior lineman, is a skill you have to learn. But, they appear to see the ability to rush the passer if he is given the time to learn.

In the end, with Brockers you absolutely are drafting a raw talent, that will need a year or two to fully realize his potential (if he ever does). But, they also know that while he will need a year or two to realize his full potential, he is able and ready to step in and be a dominate run stuffer from day 1. And while if that is need all he ends up being, it would be a disappointment, guys like that while not worth the #14 pick, certainly are worth a late first round DP. But, if he does learn to rush the passer, he would be worthy of a top 5 pick in the draft.

Scouts are not seeing Michael Brockers as the "boom or bust" pick, that many fans a see him as. They are seeing a guy who is a very safe pick, and will play in the league for 8 to 10 years as an Igor Olshansky even if he never does learn to rush the passer. But, if he does learn to rush the passer you have a 20 year old Richard Seymour. They see a guy who a TON of upside, but very little downside.


But its all potential; and frankly you do not spend a top 15 pick in nothing but potential

[Fredd]

This just in, Mara is sending around a petition to have his Giants pick #13 ahead of Dallas and Philly, and then 10 other picks to go before them as well. But, in Mara's world, the Cowboys still have pick #14 because they call them 13a, 13b, 13c, etc...legally, since he makes whatever rules he wants, he is trying to do this....

....I digress.....


the first round will be interesting to say the least...get your popcorn ready!

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

Brockers........get ready

Why would a team who ranked 7th against the run and 23rd against the pass take a 3-4 run stuffing DE? I think Brockers is a fine player, but how could he possibly help this team? Dallas left the 2011 season with a grocery list that said: Improve the secondary because we can't cover, improve the pass rush because we can't pressure the QB, and protect Romo because he is our franchise. Brockers can do none of that. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the Brockers smoke. Even if Cox, Barron, and DeCastro are gone, players like Gilmore, Ingram, Kirkpatrick, Jones, Upshaw, Glenn, Mercilus, McClellin, and Konz all provide more immediate help than what Brockers would. I'm not even positive that Brockers could beat out our current DEs on the roster. I'm not buying what we're being fed!

[StarHead69]

Would be ecstatic to see Barron, Cox, or Coples sitting there at #14.

If none of those guys are left, I think we are best served going with a low risk/high reward guy like Brockers or even Poe... rather than 'settling' for a very good guard without elite power.

A solid DLineman with the potential to be Dominant is well worth #14 in a draft that lacks elite players in positions of need for us.

I'm in the mindset that you ALWAYS swing for the fences in the first round, especially in a year where the talent runs deep into the fourth round.

[BrAinPaiNt]

But its all potential; and frankly you do not spend a top 15 pick in nothing but potential

People draft on potential all the time.

Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it does not.

Paid off recently for the giants and JPP.

At WORST you get a very good run stuffing Dlineman.

I am not at all excited about the pick so I am not saying defending him because I like and want him as a cowboy.

But if the draft falls where they can not get Cox or Barron, and they feel that the draft is deeper at OG/C than chances are they will go with Brockers and we deal with it...we know we will get a very good run stuffer and hope that he progresses in the pass rushing area.

Personally I would rather get Cox or Barron, might even be ok with a trade up to get them. I would also rather get DeCastro and hopefully finish the offensive line off. Or I would rather trade down some, get some more picks and go that route.


However, Again, not what I want for our first pick but we could do much worse. We could really over reach for need and wind up getting someone like Tony Dixon.

In other words I am preparing myself for what very well may happen and as I read more on Brockers I realize that even though he is not what I want, we could do much much much worse and history says we have done much worse.

[SMCowboy]

But its all potential; and frankly you do not spend a top 15 pick in nothing but potential

It is not "All Potential". As Charlie Casserly said, already he can play the run in the NFL yesterday.

And for those that think that there are alot of huge difference makers, and that a really good run stuffer is a complete bust at #14, think again. Just look back at the past picks after #14. Below are the 10 picks starting with #14 from the 2009 - 2005 NFL drafts. While there are a few major difference makers, for the most part you have alot of good solid players, though not superstars and a good number of complete failures:
2009 Draft:
Malcolm Jenkins
Brian Cushing
Larry English
Josh Freeman
Robert Ayers
Jeremy Macklin
Brandon Pettigrew
Alex Mack
Percy Harvin
Michael Oher


2008 Draft:
Chris Williams
Branden Albert
Dominique Rogers-Cromartie
Gosder Cherilus
Joe Flacco
Jeff Otah
Aqib Talib
Sam Baker
Felix Jones
Rashard Mendenhall


2007:
Darrelle Revis
Lawrence Timmons
Justin Harrell
Jarvis Moss
Leon Hall
Michael Griffin
Aaron Ross
Reggie Nelson
Brady Quinn
Dwayne Bowe


2006:
Brodrick Bunkley
Tye Hill
Jason Allen
Chad Greenway
Bobby Carpenter
Antonio Cromartie
Tamba Hali
Laurence Maroney
Manny Lawson
Davin Joseph


2005:
Thomas Davis
Derrick Johnson
Travis Johnson
David Pollack
Erasmus James
Alex Barron
Marcus Spears
Matt Jones
Mark Clayton
Fabian Washington

[InmanRoshi]

Tyson Smith was a pick on potential. He was a 20 year old raw college right tackle who played the previous season at 285 lbs., and probably not even been the best offensive tackle on his college team at the time. I don't have a problem drafting for potential, but I'm not a huge fan Brockers particular skill set and would rather take a pass rusher if we're taking a 1 dimensional player. I do think Parcells made a good point that defensive tackles who can push guards back into the QB are going to be as valuable as great outside pass rushers as the league is using more of these quick step drop and throws and gets more spread out. Guys like Brady and Brees get rid of the ball before the pass rushers can turn the corner.

[theogt]

JPP was a prototype rush end with the measurables and at least one season showcasing pass rushing ability. Brockers is slow, fat, doesn't look like a pass rusher, and has never showcased any pass rushing talent, not even for one season.

Not much of comparison there. With Brockers, at best you get a run stuffer. And at worst you get a complete flop.

[SMCowboy]

Why would a team who ranked 7th against the run and 23rd against the pass take a 3-4 run stuffing DE? I think Brockers is a fine player, but how could he possibly help this team? Dallas left the 2011 season with a grocery list that said: Improve the secondary because we can't cover, improve the pass rush because we can't pressure the QB, and protect Romo because he is our franchise. Brockers can do none of that. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the Brockers smoke. Even if Cox, Barron, and DeCastro are gone, players like Gilmore, Ingram, Kirkpatrick, Jones, Upshaw, Glenn, Mercilus, McClellin, and Konz all provide more immediate help than what Brockers would. I'm not even positive that Brockers could beat out our current DEs on the roster. I'm not buying what we're being fed!

You absolutely are right, that our biggest need is DB help, and the ability to put more pressure on the QB. But, do you feel that adding Richard Seymour to our DL wouldn't help our pass rush at all? Because that is exactly what scouts are seeing, and why scouts as a whole are in love with Michael Brockers.

You don't draft Michael Brockers if you think ALL that he is, is a run stuffing DE. But, you do draft Michael Brockers at #14, if you think in a year or two, you have Richard Seymour 2.0, or better.

[burmafrd]

Tyson Smith was a pick on potential. He was a 20 year old raw college right tackle who played the previous season at 285 lbs., and probably not even been the best offensive tackle on his college team at the time. I don't have a problem drafting for potential, but I'm not a huge fan Brockers particular skill set and would rather take a pass rusher if we're taking a 1 dimensional player. I do think Parcells made a good point that defensive tackles who can push guards back into the QB are going to be as valuable as great outside pass rushers as the league is using more of these quick step drop and throws and gets more spread out. Guys like Brady and Brees get rid of the ball before the pass rushers can turn the corner.


Tyron easily showed what he could do and did show it.

And that is total BS that it was on potential. Improvement yes but he showed he could get it done. Brockers has not shown that anywhere near as well and only for one year.

[burmafrd]

You absolutely are right, that our biggest need is DB help, and the ability to put more pressure on the QB. But, do you feel that adding Richard Seymour to our DL wouldn't help our pass rush at all? Because that is exactly what scouts are seeing, and why scouts as a whole are in love with Michael Brockers.

You don't draft Michael Brockers if you think ALL that he is, is a run stuffing DE. But, you do draft Michael Brockers at #14, if you think in a year or two, you have Richard Seymour 2.0, or better.


They have creative eyesight if they think he will be another Richard Seymour

[SMCowboy]

JPP was a prototype rush end with the measurables and at least one season showcasing pass rushing ability. Brockers is slow, fat, doesn't look like a pass rusher, and has never showcased any pass rushing talent, not even for one season.

Not much of comparison there. With Brockers, at best you get a run stuffer. And at worst you get a complete flop.

Here is the problem, scout see the exact opposite. Scouts are seeing at worst you get Igor Olshansky, at best you get Richard Seymour.

I am not saying I am an expert, but guys who are very well respected for their ability to judge talent, and study tape, are saying the exact opposite:

Greg Cossell:

This is where Michael Brockers comes off the board. Brockers is a development player with great size, long arms and natural power. When he stayed low and played with leverage he could be dominating. He also flashed quick and violent hands. Are there similarities down the road to Richard Seymour, clearly a better player coming out of college than Brockers? Will Brockers have the explosive strength and leverage to win the battle for the neutral zone? Will he establish a new line of scrimmage? The key for Bill Belichick is how impactful that kind of player is for other defenders. I can see Belichick looking at Brockers and seeing a raw, less refined Seymour; a piece of fresh clay that he can mold.


NFL Scout Chris Landry

NFL scout Chris Landry said Brockers' size and athletic ability will serve him well, and that he has "God-given ability to push the pocket." On the downside, Landry said Brockers has long arms but small hands and will have to show improvement getting off blocks.

"His footwork's not real smooth," Landry said. "He doesn't have a counter move yet. You take him on the idea he has tremendous physical skills, but you need to coach him and let him develop. In a year and a half, two years he might be something really special."

[SMCowboy]

They have creative eyesight if they think he will be another Richard Seymour

Are you saying that Greg Cosell from NFLFilms, has "creative eyesight"?

That is not my projection, that is what well respected film guys think.


This is where Michael Brockers comes off the board. Brockers is a development player with great size, long arms and natural power. When he stayed low and played with leverage he could be dominating. He also flashed quick and violent hands. Are there similarities down the road to Richard Seymour, clearly a better player coming out of college than Brockers? Will Brockers have the explosive strength and leverage to win the battle for the neutral zone? Will he establish a new line of scrimmage? The key for Bill Belichick is how impactful that kind of player is for other defenders. I can see Belichick looking at Brockers and seeing a raw, less refined Seymour; a piece of fresh clay that he can mold.

[burmafrd]

Are you saying that Greg Cosell from NFLFilms, has "creative eyesight"?

That is not my projection, that is what well respected film guys think.

And these guys are always right of course.

[MichaelWinicki]

So basically 20 players are predicted to go to the top 11 teams. Should be an interesting 1st round.

:laugh2:

Yeah, that's what it seems.

Starting to sound like the draft will be over before the Cowboys even get to pick!

[MichaelWinicki]

JPP was a prototype rush end with the measurables and at least one season showcasing pass rushing ability. Brockers is slow, fat, doesn't look like a pass rusher, and has never showcased any pass rushing talent, not even for one season.

Not much of comparison there. With Brockers, at best you get a run stuffer. And at worst you get a complete flop.

This.

[InmanRoshi]

Tyron easily showed what he could do and did show it.

If that were true rather than revisionist history he wouldn't have fallen to the 9th pick. He would have been a Top 5 pick where the super blue chip left tackle are taken, and where his former teammate Kalil will be taken.

[Noryb]

And these guys are always right of course.

Only when you agree with them.

[Romo 2 Austin]

Brockers has really grown on me the past few days, but I still pray for DeCastro.

[Gaede]

Yeah, Brockers is growing on me too. He's not the 'prettiest' prospect, so it's taking some getting used to. But I've always wanted the team to get help, strength and intimidation in the trenches, so why not Brockers?

The thing I've always liked w/ Brockers is that, as posted above, when he stays low he dominates. He takes on double teams and doesn't get moved. Big, powerful players in the trenches are what the game is all about.

You can clearly see the potential w/ Brockers and if the team feels they can coach them up, then I feel pretty good about the pick.

I just wish his first step was faster. That's my biggest complaint with Brockers.

[DominantD]

So if I want DeCastro, who is the other player we want to drop to 11 so Kansas City wants him more than DeCastro?

[DBOY3141]

But its all potential; and frankly you do not spend a top 15 pick in nothing but potential

We spent #9 last year on potential.

[theogt]

Here is the problem, scout see the exact opposite. Scouts are seeing at worst you get Igor Olshansky, at best you get Richard Seymour.

I am not saying I am an expert, but guys who are very well respected for their ability to judge talent, and study tape, are saying the exact opposite:

Greg Cossell:


NFL Scout Chris LandryWhy the hell would I care what someone else sees if I can sit here and look at it myself? I don't need someone else to tell me that Kate Upton is hot. And I'm not asking you to believe me over someone else. If anything, just take it as a warning that I'll be sitting here ready to say told you so, because to me the risk is clear as day.

[Avery]

I think this is a pure smokescreen. Kuelchy or Poe will be the pick.

[MichaelWinicki]

We spent #9 last year on potential.

The difference is that Smith's body of work was more consistent and he lit it up with terrific measurables prior to the draft–With an additional 20lbs of weight added on.

Brockers body of work is good, but not nearly as consistent. And his measurables are nothing special. Ourlads has him (based on his physical measurables) as the 20th ranked DT out of 27 compared.

[DBOY3141]

I think this is a pure smokescreen. Kuelchy or Poe will be the pick.

Kuelchy will not be the pick. Don't see that one at all.

[theogt]

The Tyron Smith comparisons can stop right now. Smith actually played the part of a good tackle in college. The more apt comparison would be drafting a free safety to play inside linebacker because he put on 30 lbs. Could the guy do it? POTENTIALLY. Brockers has never played 3-4 DE and has showed zero ability to rush the passer.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Why the hell would I care what someone else sees if I can sit here and look at it myself? I don't need someone else to tell me that Kate Upton is hot. And I'm not asking you to believe me over someone else. If anything, just take it as a warning that I'll be sitting here ready to say told you so, because to me the risk is clear as day.

You get paid to be a scout? Vs knowing if Kate Upton is hot?

Interesting argument especially since you try to shoot down others arguments for less.

As far a the risk goes...there is risk for every player taken high in the draft. Risk that they do not pan out...happens every year. I really don't get the mentality that you have to be sure to let us know that you will be waiting to say I told you so...like it is some badge of honor.

I am sure that in your vast exp as a fan and armchair scout that you have never been wrong on a player. That a player you did not like never turned out to be a heck of a player.

Weird, heck as much as you love the cowboys or football in general and with your expert opinions on the matter to the point of arrogantly telling us you can't wait to tell us so...you should drop your current gig and become a scout for an NFL team. :D

[theogt]

You get paid to be a scout? Vs knowing if Kate Upton is hot?

Interesting argument especially since you try to shoot down others arguments for less.

As far a the risk goes...there is risk for every player taken high in the draft. Risk that they do not pan out...happens every year. I really don't get the mentality that you have to be sure to let us know that you will be waiting to say I told you so...like it is some badge of honor.

I am sure that in your vast exp as a fan and armchair scout that you have never been wrong on a player. That a player you did not like never turned out to be a heck of a player.

Weird, heck as much as you love the cowboys or football in general and with your expert opinions on the matter to the point of arrogantly telling us you can't wait to tell us so...you should drop your current gig and become a scout for an NFL team. :DI'm supposing you missed the part where I said I'm not asking someone to believe me over some scout (hell, I'm guessing you didn't even actually take 30 seconds to read my post at all -- it's pretty typical). If you rely on the opinions of others because you're not willing to watch and form your own opinion, then you should most definitely rely on the opinion of other people you trust, including both people that get paid to do it for a living and the amateurs that spend the time to form their own opinion because they have two eyes and a brain.

I don't really care if someone gets paid to be a scout. I've seen enough paid scouts say some very VERY stupid things. And I surely don't care what someone else says if I have the ability (and the time) to sit down and look at the player myself and form my own opinion. So, if someone is trying to convince me that their opinion is right because some "scout" agrees with them, it's not going to persuasive to me.

I'd love to become a scout, to be honest, and do this year 'rounds, but the massive pay cut is not worth it.

[DBOY3141]

The Tyron Smith comparisons can stop right now. Smith actually played the part of a good tackle in college. The more apt comparison would be drafting a free safety to play inside linebacker because he put on 30 lbs. Could the guy do it? POTENTIALLY. Brockers has never played 3-4 DE and has showed zero ability to rush the passer.

I think he would play more DT his 1st year as they work on his pass rush techniques. As a DT, he would be the best on the team day 1. Rat is slowing down fast. Brent is a JAG.

We have to draft someone. If we can't trade down and Cox and Barron are gone.

Do you draft an OG and move him to center or draft a DT and try and make him a DE. Both are studs are their current positions but have question marks and potential to do the other position.

I would be fine with either because they beef up the lines and that's what we need.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I'm supposing you missed the part where I said I'm not asking someone to believe me over some scout (hell, I'm guessing you didn't even actually take 30 seconds to read my post at all -- it's pretty typical). If you rely on the opinions of others because you're not willing to watch and form your own opinion, then you should most definitely rely on the opinion of other people you trust, including both people that get paid to do it for a living and the amateurs that spend the time to form their own opinion because they have two eyes and a brain.

I don't really care if someone gets paid to be a scout. I've seen enough paid scouts say some very VERY stupid things. And I surely don't care what someone else says if I have the ability (and the time) to sit down and look at the player myself and form my own opinion. So, if someone is trying to convince me that their opinion is right because some "scout" agrees with them, it's not going to persuasive to me.

I'd love to become a scout, to be honest, and do this year 'rounds, but the massive pay cut is not worth it.

Yes I read everything you wrote. I was just busting your bubble some because i think you enjoy a spirited argument.

For the record, brockers is not the choice I would like. So it is not like I am a great advocate for him. However I just can not be so closed minded about the possibilities that he might bring to this team. I also see a good player defending the run and plays hard that could have the ability to be a decent 3-4 end for us and also realize that more often than not that 3-4 DEs don't rack up big Sack numbers.

The opinion that I have of him being a good run stopper and possible turning into a good 3-4 DE with upside in the rushing the passing department just happens to go with what the majority of the scouts in the know see.

Does not mean I am right, does not mean the scouts are right and it does not mean you are wrong.

However I will say this...I am not waiting with baited breath to tell you how wrong you are if he does pan out. I will just be happy that he does pan out.

[BIGDen]

I don't have an issue with it but I see it's VERY unpopular around these parts. :laugh2:

Understandably, because he does not look like a pass rusher. His numbers on and off the field are underwhelming and he's mostly a guy with "potential". Ughhh...

[Idgit]

I think this is a pure smokescreen. Kuelchy or Poe will be the pick.

Where'd this come from?

[SMCowboy]

Why the hell would I care what someone else sees if I can sit here and look at it myself? I don't need someone else to tell me that Kate Upton is hot. And I'm not asking you to believe me over someone else. If anything, just take it as a warning that I'll be sitting here ready to say told you so, because to me the risk is clear as day.

So you feel more confident in your ability to watch highlight film of a player and judge what type of player he will be, than a scout who is able to go and talk with coaches, see the player in practice, talk to the player, and watch every game that he has played?

Are Scouts perfect, no they absolutely are not. But are scouts right a heck of a lot more often than you are? Without a doubt.....

I certainly don't pretend to be a expert. I realize that my thoughts, are exactly that, thoughts from someone who loves the game, and has watched alot of football. But thoughts of someone who does not have the information needed to truly make an informed decision.

If you really understood what is needed to truly make an informed decision on a player, you wouldn't pretend that you can possibly make anywhere near an informed decision sitting on your coach at your house. The things that will really truly determine what type of career any of these players will have simply are not available for any of us on this board.

Is production on the field important, absolutely. But in the end, there always have been and always will be guys that for what ever reason, where late round pick, and never where more than good solid players on their college teams, but end up being all stars, and HOF players. And the NFL draft is also full of guys, that where can't miss guys, or absolutely dominated everyone that they went up against in college, but don't last 2 or 3 years in college football. Why is that, because what you see watching TV on Saturday only tells you a tiny fraction of the story. What will ultimately be the deciding factor on all of these players, is how badly do they want it. How willing are they to learn, how do they accept coaching. How well do they interact with their teammates. These factors will end up meaning WAY more to how well they work out in the NFL, than what you saw on Saturday's on TV. And if you understood even a tiny fraction of what you THINK you do about scouting players you would realize that.

[InmanRoshi]

To me, a better comparison for Brockers at this point - collegiately - is Albert Haynesworth. Huge guy, very young, but not a lot of production to show for his glimpses of talent while in college, who benefitted from playing with some good veteran players around him, and then entered the draft early. I want to think Haynesworth had like 1.5 sacks his junior year, but then was drafted high. Not comparing attitudes... at least hopefully, because I'd say there's a very good chance he's a Cowboy in less than 48 hrs.

He reminds me of Marcus Stroud.

Stroud's 2001 Combine...

6'6"
321 lbs.
5.13 40 yard
21 Bench reps
30 Vert
4.75 SS
8.07 3 Cone

Brockers Pro Day
6'6"
322
5.18
21 Bench reps
30 Vert
4.78 SS
7.48 3 Cone

[lkelly]

I'd be skeptical of any LSU player evaluation coming from Chris Landry. File those under "homer."

That's assuming he hasn't plagiarized his review from another scout. In that case, maybe it's worth reading.

[trickblue]

I've called my shot in a few other threads, and I'll do it again.

Selecting Brockers is selecting a Marcus Spears clone. We will see more "run-stuffing" and nothing else from the DE spot with that selection.

And unlike the trollific "I hope I'm wrong" caveats posted along with it, if Brockers is the pick I legitimately hope I'm wrong to the benefit of the Dallas Cowboys.

You are reading my mind...

[Mash]

Our luck it will be Brockers...

Not the the pick we all would like.

I see a strong defender with minimal pass rush skills.

but then again.....Didnt we pick Maryland #1 with Jimmy Genius?

I dont know....if all the our 3 guys we like are gone....trade down please

[theogt]

So you feel more confident in your ability to watch highlight film of a player and judge what type of player he will be, than a scout who is able to go and talk with coaches, see the player in practice, talk to the player, and watch every game that he has played?I take in account many different sources of information when forming my own opinion. I just don't adopt others' opinions wholesale if that's what you're asking.

[CATCH17]

I'm supposing you missed the part where I said I'm not asking someone to believe me over some scout (hell, I'm guessing you didn't even actually take 30 seconds to read my post at all -- it's pretty typical). If you rely on the opinions of others because you're not willing to watch and form your own opinion, then you should most definitely rely on the opinion of other people you trust, including both people that get paid to do it for a living and the amateurs that spend the time to form their own opinion because they have two eyes and a brain.

I don't really care if someone gets paid to be a scout. I've seen enough paid scouts say some very VERY stupid things. And I surely don't care what someone else says if I have the ability (and the time) to sit down and look at the player myself and form my own opinion. So, if someone is trying to convince me that their opinion is right because some "scout" agrees with them, it's not going to persuasive to me.

I'd love to become a scout, to be honest, and do this year 'rounds, but the massive pay cut is not worth it.

So what you're saying is you want Brockers?

[theogt]

He's the bomb diggity, yes.

[MichaelWinicki]

Our luck it will be Brockers...

Not the the pick we all would like.

I see a strong defender with minimal pass rush skills.

but then again.....Didnt we pick Maryland #1 with Jimmy Genius?

I dont know....if all the our 3 guys we like are gone....trade down please

Maryland was a beast in college and much more pass-rush ability than Brockers does... No comparison. Maryland had 10 1/2 sacks his senior season.

What Maryland didn't have was the size/arm length to be a good pass-rusher at the pro-level, but he still flashed ability from time to time. He totaled 24 1/2 sacks over 10 NFL seasons and this was in spite of not being out there on passing downs.

[BrAinPaiNt]

He's the bomb diggity, yes.

:laugh2: :bow:

[reddyuta]

Our luck it will be Brockers...

Not the the pick we all would like.

I see a strong defender with minimal pass rush skills.

but then again.....Didnt we pick Maryland #1 with Jimmy Genius?

I dont know....if all the our 3 guys we like are gone....trade down please

I want them to trade down too,the talent level is pretty good in the bottom of the 1st rd.

[JBond]

Apothecary talk here in KC is they are taking dline. Poe has been mentioned often.