Parent busts bad teachers at his son's school

[MonsterD]

His boy is 10 and has autism, and he put a mic on his son one day to try to figure out what was going on.

His response video:

4oYqdjzFMWE

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfkscHt96R0#%21)

[danielofthesaints]

That's a good father right there. :starspin

[kapolani]

If I were in the father's shoes I would be in jail for going all Jimmy Super Fly Snuka on their buttocks.

[Joe Rod]

That is heart breaking. I could not imagine what I would do if that happened to my children.

[Yakuza Rich]

This stuff goes on all of the time. It happened to me when I was in high school. Basically most of the teachers where there because they were afraid of working in the real world where they didn't have power over others and wanted summers off (of course, they would complain about their salaries despite not working during the summer).

The problem is that once a teacher gets tenure, anything outside of having sex or molesting a student will go unpunished. The bad teachers know this and use it to their advantage.

It did teach me how to defend myself because even as a teenager, you don't quite understand that when you're dealing in a situation like that, you had better have detailed examples of the crap that a teacher pulls because nobody is going to believe you.

I could go on and on. I used to think 'well, someday you will look back and realize how much of a little pain in the neck you were.' But, I just look back now and think that if somebody pulled that stuff to my child, I would go ballistic. I still have a negative reaction when somebody tells me that they are a high school teacher, even though I know that not every teacher is a bad person.

I look back now and I think my parents just didn't believe me because it did come off as incredible. I never had a problem with bullying from students. Probably was in about 4 fist fights in total with other students. But, it was the bullying from the teachers that made high school a living hell for me. There's a lot of reasons why I feel sorry for this parent, but I really felt for him because he simply could not fathom that this stuff goes on. It does and the country really needs to wake up on putting every teacher on a pedastal.







YR

[Sam I Am]

Shut your mouth!

[Hostile]

This stuff goes on all of the time. It happened to me when I was in high school. Basically most of the teachers where there because they were afraid of working in the real world where they didn't have power over others and wanted summers off (of course, they would complain about their salaries despite not working during the summer).

The problem is that once a teacher gets tenure, anything outside of having sex or molesting a student will go unpunished. The bad teachers know this and use it to their advantage.

It did teach me how to defend myself because even as a teenager, you don't quite understand that when you're dealing in a situation like that, you had better have detailed examples of the crap that a teacher pulls because nobody is going to believe you.

I could go on and on. I used to think 'well, someday you will look back and realize how much of a little pain in the neck you were.' But, I just look back now and think that if somebody pulled that stuff to my child, I would go ballistic. I still have a negative reaction when somebody tells me that they are a high school teacher, even though I know that not every teacher is a bad person.

I look back now and I think my parents just didn't believe me because it did come off as incredible. I never had a problem with bullying from students. Probably was in about 4 fist fights in total with other students. But, it was the bullying from the teachers that made high school a living hell for me. There's a lot of reasons why I feel sorry for this parent, but I really felt for him because he simply could not fathom that this stuff goes on. It does and the country really needs to wake up on putting every teacher on a pedastal.Or at best get swept under a rug. My oldest daughter had a horrible History Teacher. The first day of class he asked the students if they considered themselves Liberal or Conservative. Any student who answered opposite of his political views was failed.

My daughter worked 6 hours on a project for that class one time. She stayed up until like 2 in the morning working on it. When she got her paper back she let me see his comments. One of them was that she was getting no grade and this was why. "The scant amount of time you took on this shows me you didn't care about the project."

I took that paper, the assignment and some of his other commentary and some e-mails between he and I to the Principle and the department head.

He's still teaching and kids who say they are the opposite political party are still failing.

When my daughter went to Summer School to make up that class, one of this teacher's fellow faculty asked how many in the Summer School class were from Mr. Johnson's class and considered themselves of the opposite political party. 20 to 25 kids raised their hands.

My daughter got an A in the Summer School class and an F in his.

How is that teaching?

Most galling to me, when I met with the Principle and Department Head they assured me my complaint was not the first against this teacher and his methods. So why is he still employed?

Oh, and my youngest is now in that school. If she is assigned to his class I will have her removed immediately. She has a goal to be her class Valedictorian and I will not risk him being the reason she doesn't meet her goal.

[burmafrd]

Or at best get swept under a rug. My oldest daughter had a horrible History Teacher. The first day of class he asked the students if they considered themselves Liberal or Conservative. Any student who answered opposite of his political views was failed.

My daughter worked 6 hours on a project for that class one time. She stayed up until like 2 in the morning working on it. When she got her paper back she let me see his comments. One of them was that she was getting no grade and this was why. "The scant amount of time you took on this shows me you didn't care about the project."

I took that paper, the assignment and some of his other commentary and some e-mails between he and I to the Principle and the department head.

He's still teaching and kids who say they are the opposite political party are still failing.

When my daughter went to Summer School to make up that class, one of this teacher's fellow faculty asked how many in the Summer School class were from Mr. Johnson's class and considered themselves of the opposite political party. 20 to 25 kids raised their hands.

My daughter got an A in the Summer School class and an F in his.

How is that teaching?

Most galling to me, when I met with the Principle and Department Head they assured me my complaint was not the first against this teacher and his methods. So why is he still employed?

Oh, and my youngest is now in that school. If she is assigned to his class I will have her removed immediately. She has a goal to be her class Valedictorian and I will not risk him being the reason she doesn't meet her goal.

Lawsuit time.

[zrinkill]

That is heart breaking. I could not imagine what I would do if that happened to my children.

I can ...... I would blow a couple of thousand on bail money.

[tomson75]

Is this seriously going to turn into a teacher bashing thread?

Really?

[burmafrd]

Is this seriously going to turn into a teacher bashing thread?

Really?

why not? They have it coming.

[Hostile]

Is this seriously going to turn into a teacher bashing thread?

Really?I had mostly great teachers. Only 3 I ever considered bad. One because he didn't teach me anything. Another because he was too stubborn to listen. And the last because he wasn't qualified to do his job. 75% of the students in his class dropped it at the semester change. Most of my teachers had great, positive affects on my life.

EDIT...4. I briefly had a 1st grade teacher who was an alcoholic and got fired for coming to school loaded.

[rkell87]

Is this seriously going to turn into a teacher bashing thread?

Really?

why not? They have it coming.

bingo. everybody remembers terrible teachers and great teachers, most have had more terrible than great with the rest(and vast majority) being merely adequate.

I had a history teacher in tenth grade that was awesome, his class was really tough but he made learning fun and easy to get into, I made a 100 but trust me it wasn't a blow off class.

I had a math teacher in 7th grade that was horrible, I switched schools between 6th and 7th and took AP classes but I was behind from the jump because they started at material I hadn't learned previously, I was moved down to regular and was so behind I stayed after for tutoring, 7th was geometry and throughout the year the Pythagorean theorem was used all year, I never learned it because when I asked her what it was after being in her class 2 weeks she rolled her eyes and said 'you can't be serious, if you don't know by now you never will'. I almost never talked or spoke in her class but one day there were just a few opportunities for funny comments from some things that others said(I'm a smart ***) and I spoke out twice and she dragged me in the hall and told me that no body in the class likes me, I'm not funny, I am not the class clown, I'm a pimple face loser who is failing and that they weren't laughing with me they were laughing at me


I have a lot more stories like the second one and not many like the first one

[Cajuncowboy]

As the father of an autistic child I can tell you this happens quite often. Generally the teachers are great but sometimes you get one who isn't trained properly or they just don't care.

One experience we had was when my son was in 7th grade. He was in special needs classes but at a regular school. There was an incident in the school lunch room where one of the bullies of the school was picking on him. He walked up behind him and smacked him in the back of the head. HE then reached around and took his bag which had his lunch in it. Kris, my son, tried to grab the bag and jumped up from his chair. In doing so he fell into the bully. The bully pushed Kris to the floor and kicked him. The teacher in the lunch room grabbed Kris and took him to the office. The other boy wasn't punished. When the teacher got him to the office, she was screaming at him for causing a problem in the lunch room. She told him he would never be allowed to eat lunch there again. Now, Kris is autistic and he didn't know she couldn't do that. He started to cry and she did the same thing the bully did. Smack him on the head and told him to "Grow up".

What the teacher didn't know was that one of my business partners wife was in the office right next to this and could see and hear everything that was going on. When Kris stopped crying and got under control, the teacher told him not to bring lunch anymore because he would be allowed to have it.

When we were told about this we went straight to the teacher and confronted her. She denied the whole thing. Until we told her we had witnesses. She again didn't believe us but told her we were going to the school board.

I made a call to a member of the school board about this and she made a phone call. The teacher was "Reassigned" to another school in the district not dealing with any special needs kids.

To this day, I always get upset when I see something like this. These people feel they need to exert some power over someone so they prey on the weakest of our society. I wish the teacher would have been fired outright but knowing she was disciplined was sufficient at the time.

[hipfake08]

His boy is 10 and has autism, and he put a mic on his son one day to try to figure out what was going on.

His response video:

4oYqdjzFMWE

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfkscHt96R0#%21)

Shows you how powerful the teachers are and the NJEA in Jersey.

[rkell87]

Shows you how powerful the teachers are and the NJEA in Jersey.

with some of the teacher unions out there it is nearly impossible to get a teacher fired for anything other than sexual conduct

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

Is this seriously going to turn into a teacher bashing thread?

Really?

Not with me! I can't believe what I'm reading here. Yeah there are bad teachers out there, just like there are bad doctors, mechanics, and priests. To say that teachers only teach beacuse they can't work in the real world and want summers off is one of the more ignorant statements I've ever heard on this forum, and that's saying alot.

[Yakuza Rich]

Is this seriously going to turn into a teacher bashing thread?

Really?

I don't think so.

I'm not looking for pity by any means. But, I do hear all of the time how teachers are underpaid and they are treated like martyrs. However, their hourly pay rates are actually quite high. They just don't make a lot of money because they don't work summers.

And the reality is that most teachers become teachers because...they want to have the summers off. I can't tell you how many friends and associates of mine who became high school teachers who told me that.

And I'm all for teachers being paid more like doctors and lawyers do. But, they should go thru a much more rigorous process of education, training and evaluation like doctors and lawyers often do.

All I really care about is that I feel awful for everybody involved in this story because this is not a rare case. It happens all of the time and it happens with kids who don't have a handicap as well. In Hostile's case, it's just a teacher being a petty, jerk and who is delusional about their political beliefs. In my case, it was much like this child with autism case. Just outright bullying of a kid and then the teacher would either use the response that they elicited to use as evidence to punish me or they would just flat out lie and use that to punish me.

And when the teachers were being supervised, they made sure to be on their best behavior. But once the supervision was gone, it was business as usual. And then the teachers would say 'well, he only behaved because the supervisor was there.'

I'm not saying that every teacher was bad. Hell, I had some great teachers. But in my experience the bad far outweighed the good. It wasn't even close. And it's not to say that a parent should condemn a teacher at the drop of a hat and always stick up for their child. It's just that you have to treat what the teacher says with a skeptical eye just like you should treat what your child says with a skeptical eye and try to find out the truth because you never know what is really going on.








YR

[Yakuza Rich]

Not with me! I can't believe what I'm reading here. Yeah there are bad teachers out there, just like there are bad doctors, mechanics, and priests. To say that teachers only teach beacuse they can't work in the real world and want summers off is one of the more ignorant statements I've ever heard on this forum, and that's saying alot.

You may think it's ignorant, but it's the truth. I have probably had over 50 people I know who became teachers who told me that they wanted to become teachers in part because they got summers off and they didn't want to work in the corporate world and they didn't want to be a public servant (i.e. cop or firefighter or state worker).

Of course, not all are like that. One of my good friends is a school teacher and I believe that really is his life calling because I've known him since I was 9 years old and he really just has the aptitude and personality for it. He's also the guy that everybody calls their 'favorite teacher.' But, to act obtuse that teachers don't want to become teachers to have summers off and to not work in a world where they are in control is beyond the definition of ignorant because I've had too many people tell me this point blank.

I don't look down upon those who want summers off, just don't complain to me about not making enough money. Find work during the summer like the rest of the world.






YR

[Dallas]

Not with me! I can't believe what I'm reading here. Yeah there are bad teachers out there, just like there are bad doctors, mechanics, and priests. To say that teachers only teach beacuse they can't work in the real world and want summers off is one of the more ignorant statements I've ever heard on this forum, and that's saying alot.

You do know teachers do not change my brake pads nor do they treat any chronic headaches I might have? The comparisson is pretty funny actually.

They teach my children and the standard they are held against shouldn't be higher than the highest.

So no, I do not agree w/ your statement at all.

As folks ALREADY have said, there are good and bad and I have no issues w/ folks filling us in on some bad times for them or the children.

[Dallas]

Not with me! I can't believe what I'm reading here. Yeah there are bad teachers out there, just like there are bad doctors, mechanics, and priests. To say that teachers only teach beacuse they can't work in the real world and want summers off is one of the more ignorant statements I've ever heard on this forum, and that's saying alot.

You don't really have to participate since we are so ignorant, you know?

It is a free country, or did any teacher teach you that in school?

[Joe Rod]

And here I thought this particular teacher issue was enough to focus on. I don't see we have to paint in such broad strokes either way.

[hipfake08]

So things are normal in the Jersey School systems.
Usually teacher hirings are done through recommends of family or friends of board members or poloticos friends. So you do not always get the best.
And like the video spoke of the teacher was a bully on this kid.

I know people who work with the disabled kids and most are top notch and they have to be. Some bad teachers need to get out and work somewhere their attitude would be accepted. Maybe the Post office or at CVS. But not with kids.

Going back to the protection the teachers have from the Union and NJEA will keep them employed. The parent should sue the school system. Then they may take action. But the only action will be to put the screws to the kid not the correct thing and get rid of the teacher - strip the tenure and all the other gravy train benefits they get. Time to stand up and make an example of the bad. But the NJEA will not allow it and would have the district teachers strike before that happened.

NYC has tried to get rankings and ratings for teachers published.
The all powerful Teachers backer Sheldon Silver in the NYS senate blocked it.

They are trading favors in Albany on this. Like they even care.

[Faerluna]

I don't think it's a bash teachers thread, just a "bash bad teachers" thread.

I was lucky enough to not have any teachers that were bad and a few that were particularly awesome that I'm still in touch with today.

I also have several friends who are teachers and are in the profession for all the right reasons. A couple of them have mentioned to me that they are aware of the types of teachers referenced here and it's very disheartening to them, too.

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

You don't really have to participate since we are so ignorant, you know?

It is a free country, or did any teacher teach you that in school?

Thanks big D, and yes I do know all about your ignorance. You put it on display daily on this forum. I come from a family of teachers where my grandfather was high school principal, both of my grandmothers were substitute teachers, my father was a teacher and later a director of an education service center, and my mother taught 42 years including soldiers on base during Vietnam. My comment wasn't directed at the OP for posting this, and I feel terrible for the kid involved. My comment was directed at one poster who grouped all teachers into this lazy, working for summers off portrait that's being painted here. Obviously the OP got that, the poster I took exception to got that and replied, and you seem to be the only one who doesn't get it. Ignorance rearing it's ugly head?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Bad teachers should be bashed. Good teachers deserve more credit and pay than they ever get. There is a difference.

I remember in third grade my cousin was getting bad grades. We both had different teachers. The teacher would send home letters that said he was not paying attention or doing the assignments in class.

My Aunt knew my cousin was smart but just figured he might be acting lazy in class or being a class clown but after getting more bad grades and bad notes from the teach she asked him what was going on.

He said he could not see the black board where some of the assignments and teaching was happening.

So one day my Aunt showed up at the school, passed by the front office to go look into the room my cousin was in.

She could see the teach up front teaching and writing on the chalk board but could not see my cousin. She knew he went to school that day. So she walked into the class and asked the teacher where he was.

The teacher had him in a desk that was behind a partition where he could not see the board. So she asks him if that was where he normally sat for class and the teacher admitted that it was.

Well...My Aunt was a good woman but when she got mad, she got mad. She chased the teacher down the hall way and probably would have beat her up if the teacher did not hide in the principals office.

Needless to say that my cousin got transferred to a new teacher and his grades magically got better just like they were before that teacher.

[Idgit]

Is this seriously going to turn into a teacher bashing thread?

Really?

One of my great pet-peeves is the dysfunctional rift between parents and teachers/school officials in our generation. There are definitely bad teachers--a lot of them--and union rules make it impossible to treat them as they should be treated. It's a joke, but it's not an excuse to not support the school when performance or behavioral issues are at hand.

But this probably isn't the thread for that discussion. I'd definitely be ticked if I were this parent, and I'd be escalating what happened to my son to the school board and considering legal options. I skipped through some of the father's rant in this video, but I'm sure he's doing that in addition to complaining online; I respect that. This video, though...I'd rather have just the choice bits of the edited audio with the scripted narration.

[Hostile]

Alternative (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234903) to this discussion.

:D

[ethiostar]

One of my great pet-peeves is the dysfunctional rift between parents and teachers/school officials in our generation.

There are definitely bad teachers--a lot of them--and union rules make it impossible to treat them as they should be treated. It's a joke, but it's not an excuse to not support the school when performance or behavioral issues are at hand.



:hammer::hammer::hammer:

I think you highlighted three major issues at play, although the there many more factors that contribute to the current poor condition of our school system.

We have a system that doesn't rid itself of bad teachers nor reward those who do an incredible job to encourage, inspire and challenge students with very poor resources and support at their disposal. Our communities, to a large extent, no longer value teachers and have seized to become integral stakeholders in their children's learning process for a variety of reasons. On the contrary, as a community (and larger society), we expect teachers to do more with less resources and without the support of parents who often hold educators accountable and blame everything on them without sharing any of the responsibility.

I think its easy to want to point the finger at one thing or someone in particular but the reality is the issue is more complex and there is enough blame to go around. Until everyone assumes responsibility and dedicate what every meager resources that are available to us (i.e., time, money, and other types of support) we will keep pointing a finger at each other while most of our children continue to drop out of school at an alarmingly high rate or barely graduate high-school but without the necessary basic skills to enable them to pursue higher education or contribute as an educated member of the work force and the larger society.

[Double Trouble]

Teachers are going to be held to a higher standard because they are automatically placed into such a position of trust. For better or worse, they have the care of our children for a significant amount of time.

My wife is a teacher and has tutored autistic students, so I know that some of them are very quiet, and unable (or unwilling, I don't know) to express when something wrong has been done to them. These women should be fired, end of story. To abuse a child, handicapped or not, is just despicable. But with an autistic child, as in this case, they can't even explain to their parents what happened.

I don't understand the mind that can abuse a child. Further, I don't understand kids who mock or harm other kids, especially the handicapped. I was a kid once, and I had a mean streak like a lot of boys do. But hurting the weak or disabled was unthinkable to me, and I don't for a minute pretend that I was a paragon of virtue. Had I been caught doing anything like that when I was a kid, I would've received a severe beating from my father, and would've deserved it.

Our country is sliding into hell.

[The30YardSlant]

Some teachers are great, some make you realize where the "Those who can do, those who can't teach" mindset comes from. The latter often exhibit very malicious behaviors because frankly, they enjoy the power.

My sister has Aspergers syndrome. She is very high functioning but suffers from various social issues. She had some great teachers over the years who helped and stood up for her, and others who should have been fired for the things they did and said to her.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

We have the same issues up here.

My son just had his fractions test. Got 100% one half but did poorly on the second part, it was clear he didn't understand the question and what he was supposed to do.

Mrs CCF wrote to his teacher and asked that he have a retest as we had shown him what to do and he now understood so...

The response was, well he didn't understand it on the practice test either. My wife and I are like, well dummy if you had told us he didn't understand it on the practice test, we would have ensured he understood it. Teacher also said, well that is his mark for fractions, no retest.

He's only in grade 3 so who cares what his mark is, won't have any effect on him getting into a good university but still, that is how teachers are, especially ours since they are in a strike position and in a pissing match with the govt.

[Dallas]

Thanks big D, and yes I do know all about your ignorance. You put it on display daily on this forum. I come from a family of teachers where my grandfather was high school principal, both of my grandmothers were substitute teachers, my father was a teacher and later a director of an education service center, and my mother taught 42 years including soldiers on base during Vietnam. My comment wasn't directed at the OP for posting this, and I feel terrible for the kid involved. My comment was directed at one poster who grouped all teachers into this lazy, working for summers off portrait that's being painted here. Obviously the OP got that, the poster I took exception to got that and replied, and you seem to be the only one who doesn't get it. Ignorance rearing it's ugly head?

Well with all of that so called "education" in your family, I would expect better interaction in the thread. You were the one coming down on folks having issues w/ bad teachers. It wasn't me that was wagging my finger in folks faces because they had those problems in the past.

I just take offense to the soap box preachers in the community, because gosh forbid MOM was a teacher and Dad was an excellent principle.

:D

[burmafrd]

Thanks big D, and yes I do know all about your ignorance. You put it on display daily on this forum. I come from a family of teachers where my grandfather was high school principal, both of my grandmothers were substitute teachers, my father was a teacher and later a director of an education service center, and my mother taught 42 years including soldiers on base during Vietnam. My comment wasn't directed at the OP for posting this, and I feel terrible for the kid involved. My comment was directed at one poster who grouped all teachers into this lazy, working for summers off portrait that's being painted here. Obviously the OP got that, the poster I took exception to got that and replied, and you seem to be the only one who doesn't get it. Ignorance rearing it's ugly head?

well that explains why you refuse to admit that there are a lot of bad teachers.

Probably some of them were as well and you know it.

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

well that explains why you refuse to admit that there are a lot of bad teachers.

Probably some of them were as well and you know it.

You mean like in post #17 where I said "yeah there are some dad teachers out there"? Burm eveybody here knows you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but at least get a sibling or friend to help you read through these things before posting.

[rkell87]

:lmao: this thread = win

[Yakuza Rich]

You mean like in post #17 where I said "yeah there are some dad teachers out there"? Burm eveybody here knows you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but at least get a sibling or friend to help you read through these things before posting.

You also stated that saying that teachers get into the profession so they can summers off and not work in the real world is the most ignorant statement you have ever heard.

Yet, I think there are quite a few people here that know of teachers who got into the profession for those very reasons.

To me, the situation with this father is really one of the most egregious acts of cowardice. Kids who are not handicapped but are bullied by teachers really don't have a 'fair fight' against somebody in authority like a teacher to begin with. To do that with a kid with autism is about as low as it gets.






YR

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

Well with all of that so called "education" in your family, I would expect better interaction in the thread. You were the one coming down on folks having issues w/ bad teachers. It wasn't me that was wagging my finger in folks faces because they had those problems in the past.

I just take offense to the soap box preachers in the community, because gosh forbid MOM was a teacher and Dad was an excellent principle.

:D

Again for the second time I addressed one poster who said that "Basically most of the teachers where there because they were afraid of working in the real world where they didn't have power over others and wanted summers off". I said it was an ignorant statement...and it was. Which post# did I come down on anybody besides that? What soap box? I addressed one poster! I clearly stated that there are problem teachers just like in any other profession. I clearly stated that what the teacher did to the kid was horrible. It's like you speed read and skip over parts. Either that or you're just...never mind.

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

You also stated that saying that teachers get into the profession so they can summers off and not work in the real world is the most ignorant statement you have ever heard.

Yet, I think there are quite a few people here that know of teachers who got into the profession for those very reasons.

To me, the situation with this father is really one of the most egregious acts of cowardice. Kids who are not handicapped but are bullied by teachers really don't have a 'fair fight' against somebody in authority like a teacher to begin with. To do that with a kid with autism is about as low as it gets.






YR

I know of no teacher who got in for that reason. Every teacher I've personaly known started teaching because they enjoyed working with children. Completely agree with you on the cowardice of the teacher. I don't believe that was ever in question.

[rkell87]

I know of no teacher who got in for that reason. Every teacher I've personaly known started teaching because they enjoyed working with children. Completely agree with you on the cowardice of the teacher. I don't believe that was ever in question.

my aunt, cousin, and gf's best friend are all teachers and love working with children, that being said I've talked with many education majors at TSU and a lot of them cited summers off as a major draw for choosing that major, just cause you don't know any doesn't mean that it isn't happening

[Dallas]

my aunt, cousin, and gf's best friend are all teachers and love working with children, that being said I've talked with many education majors at TSU and a lot of them cited summers off as a major draw for choosing that major, just cause you don't know any doesn't mean that it isn't happening


You are clearly wrong and misled. One is "called" to be a teacher. One does not just want summers off.

:laugh2:

[Dallas]

You mean like in post #17 where I said "yeah there are some dad teachers out there"? Burm eveybody here knows you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but at least get a sibling or friend to help you read through these things before posting.

Isn't it funny because we differ from your opinion we are the ignorant ones and not very sharp? If you can't hang, you must insult.

hilarious ;)

[CashMan]

I don't think so.

I'm not looking for pity by any means. But, I do hear all of the time how teachers are underpaid and they are treated like martyrs. However, their hourly pay rates are actually quite high. They just don't make a lot of money because they don't work summers.






YR


Please provide the math, I am getting around $15-20 starting off, at about $30k per year.

[Yakuza Rich]

Please provide the math, I am getting around $15-20 starting off, at about $30k per year.

Let's say you make $20 an hour.

$20 x 2080 hours (standard for a full year's work) = $41,600

And that's starting off as well. Not exactly chump change when you are starting off. I'm sure there are/were plenty of us that wouldn't have minded making $40K+ with our first job.

The difference comes from not working the entire year.





YR

[BrAinPaiNt]

Please stop with the personal insults in the arguments.

[Yakuza Rich]

Again for the second time I addressed one poster who said that "Basically most of the teachers where there because they were afraid of working in the real world where they didn't have power over others and wanted summers off". I said it was an ignorant statement...and it was. Which post# did I come down on anybody besides that? What soap box? I addressed one poster! I clearly stated that there are problem teachers just like in any other profession. I clearly stated that what the teacher did to the kid was horrible. It's like you speed read and skip over parts. Either that or you're just...never mind.

So...you went to my high school and knew my teachers and what their motivations were?

Or how about the people I've worked with in 'corporate America' who quit their job to become a teacher and said that they were going to be a teacher because they hated corporate America and were looking forward to having Summers off.

What makes great teachers great is that they are in it because they truly love the profession of helping educate children. If everybody was like that, then every teacher would be great. But the fact is that those great teachers are few and far between for a reason....the others are in the professions for other motivations far different from educating children.










YR

[rkell87]

You are clearly wrong and misled. One is "called" to be a teacher. One does not just want summers off.

:laugh2:

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19392633.jpg

[JBond]

Or at best get swept under a rug. My oldest daughter had a horrible History Teacher. The first day of class he asked the students if they considered themselves Liberal or Conservative. Any student who answered opposite of his political views was failed.

My daughter worked 6 hours on a project for that class one time. She stayed up until like 2 in the morning working on it. When she got her paper back she let me see his comments. One of them was that she was getting no grade and this was why. "The scant amount of time you took on this shows me you didn't care about the project."

I took that paper, the assignment and some of his other commentary and some e-mails between he and I to the Principle and the department head.

He's still teaching and kids who say they are the opposite political party are still failing.

When my daughter went to Summer School to make up that class, one of this teacher's fellow faculty asked how many in the Summer School class were from Mr. Johnson's class and considered themselves of the opposite political party. 20 to 25 kids raised their hands.

My daughter got an A in the Summer School class and an F in his.

How is that teaching?

Most galling to me, when I met with the Principle and Department Head they assured me my complaint was not the first against this teacher and his methods. So why is he still employed?

Oh, and my youngest is now in that school. If she is assigned to his class I will have her removed immediately. She has a goal to be her class Valedictorian and I will not risk him being the reason she doesn't meet her goal.

Unions...sigh...

[CashMan]

Let's say you make $20 an hour.

$20 x 2080 hours (standard for a full year's work) = $41,600

And that's starting off as well. Not exactly chump change when you are starting off. I'm sure there are/were plenty of us that wouldn't have minded making $40K+ with our first job.

The difference comes from not working the entire year.



YR

Where are you getting $40k? Teachers make far less at their 1st job.

[Dallas]

Where are you getting $40k? Teachers make far less at their 1st job.

I would move to a better school district. You are getting hosed. For example this is our ASD wage scale. Unionized baby!!!

http://www.asdk12.org/depts/hr/employment/salary.asp

[MonsterD]

Just gonna link this to news stories

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2012-04-25/teacher-autistic-bullying/54528282/1


http://abcnews.go.com/US/jersey-autistic-boy-records-teachers-alleged-abuse/story?id=16209626#.T5hLzNVUySo

[vta]

Where are you getting $40k? Teachers make far less at their 1st job.

It's probably different on a state by state basis. New Jersey pays it's teachers very well.

[BrAinPaiNt]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19392633.jpg

:laugh1: Nice

[JBond]

Just gonna link this to news stories

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2012-04-25/teacher-autistic-bullying/54528282/1


http://abcnews.go.com/US/jersey-autistic-boy-records-teachers-alleged-abuse/story?id=16209626#.T5hLzNVUySo


Sad... they just shuffled the pathetic school employees to another school....Where have I heard that story before. Adult is cruel and takes advantage of his position over children and nothing happens but a transfer....It sounds so familiar....wait a minute...I think it is coming back to me...Darn,I just can not remember.

[Yakuza Rich]

Where are you getting $40k? Teachers make far less at their 1st job.

No kidding.

That's because they don't work summers.

If you're paid $20 an hour and actually work 2080 hours like the normal job that is year-round, that gives you $41,600 salary.

I've said, all along they get paid fairly well from an hourly perspective. They just don't make much money because they don't work summers. And I've met countless teachers who say they wanted to get into the job so they can have summers off. My response....don't complain about your wages then or find a job during the summer like the rest of us.






YR

[rkell87]

Where are you getting $40k? Teachers make far less at their 1st job.

he is doing a full year of hours, but they don't work a full year. $20 x (40 hours x 40 weeks) 1600 = 32,000


all he is saying is most people would love to be paid $20 an hour starting out, problem is there isn't much room for growth, plus schools like to let go of teachers after a while to avoid paying pensions because they can get a fresh out of college person for cheap and really all they want is a body in a class room

[CashMan]

he is doing a full year of hours, but they don't work a full year. $20 x (40 hours x 40 weeks) 1600 = 32,000


all he is saying is most people would love to be paid $20 an hour starting out, problem is there isn't much room for growth, plus schools like to let go of teachers after a while to avoid paying pensions because they can get a fresh out of college person for cheap and really all they want is a body in a class room


Yes, so $32K a year(not working summers), is not great money for someone who goes to school for 4yrs. It is great money for someone who is not college educated starting out.

[Yakuza Rich]

Yes, so $32K a year(not working summers), is not great money for someone who goes to school for 4yrs.

Yes, but that's about what you get paid at many corporations when you first start out, even if you have a college degree. Hell, I didn't get paid that much when I got out of college. And I worked summers, too. If teachers don't like it, work summers. Plenty of tutoring jobs and other opportunities during the summer.






YR

[CowboyMcCoy]

Thanks big D, and yes I do know all about your ignorance. You put it on display daily on this forum. I come from a family of teachers where my grandfather was high school principal, both of my grandmothers were substitute teachers, my father was a teacher and later a director of an education service center, and my mother taught 42 years including soldiers on base during Vietnam. My comment wasn't directed at the OP for posting this, and I feel terrible for the kid involved. My comment was directed at one poster who grouped all teachers into this lazy, working for summers off portrait that's being painted here. Obviously the OP got that, the poster I took exception to got that and replied, and you seem to be the only one who doesn't get it. Ignorance rearing it's ugly head?

Bip..

[CashMan]

Yes, but that's about what you get paid at many corporations when you first start out, even if you have a college degree. Hell, I didn't get paid that much when I got out of college. And I worked summers, too. If teachers don't like it, work summers. Plenty of tutoring jobs and other opportunities during the summer.






YR

Well, if you got out of college at 21, it would of been 1998 for you. 1998 to 2012 is a big difference. Teachers are not guaranteed full time jobs coming out of college, usually they have to spend a year or so as a sub.

[rkell87]

Yes, so $32K a year(not working summers), is not great money for someone who goes to school for 4yrs. It is great money for someone who is not college educated starting out.

few jobs start out higher than that straight out of school with a 4 year degree

[zrinkill]

I wish we could get rid of bad parents and bad teachers.

[Yakuza Rich]

Well, if you got out of college at 21, it would of been 1998 for you. 1998 to 2012 is a big difference. Teachers are not guaranteed full time jobs coming out of college, usually they have to spend a year or so as a sub.

I know. My sister was a teacher for a while and she started around 96-ish. She actually made a very nice salary working in Long Island. Then she went to Atlanta and saw a big drop in pay. Of course, cost of living in Atlanta is much cheaper than Long Island.

It's not like I'm spouting this stuff half-cocked. This stuff has been disputed against teachers for years and we are talking about hourly pay compared to other professions like architectures and even engineers.

Like I said before, I'm ALL FOR teachers making more money like doctors and lawyers do. However, they should go thru the same rugged education, training and evaluation. Something tells me that if that happened, we would actually see the bad teachers who are in it for summer vacations and because they can deal with the real world be expurgated from the school systems and the true people who view teaching as a calling would be much more prevalent. The problem is that teachers want to have their cake and eat it. Life doesn't usually work that way.





YR

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Well, if you got out of college at 21, it would of been 1998 for you. 1998 to 2012 is a big difference. Teachers are not guaranteed full time jobs coming out of college, usually they have to spend a year or so as a sub.

you are no longer a Sub, you are now a teacher on call :p

[Bizwah]

This stuff goes on all of the time. It happened to me when I was in high school. Basically most of the teachers where there because they were afraid of working in the real world where they didn't have power over others and wanted summers off (of course, they would complain about their salaries despite not working during the summer).

The problem is that once a teacher gets tenure, anything outside of having sex or molesting a student will go unpunished. The bad teachers know this and use it to their advantage.It did teach me how to defend myself because even as a teenager, you don't quite understand that when you're dealing in a situation like that, you had better have detailed examples of the crap that a teacher pulls because nobody is going to believe you.

I could go on and on. I used to think 'well, someday you will look back and realize how much of a little pain in the neck you were.' But, I just look back now and think that if somebody pulled that stuff to my child, I would go ballistic. I still have a negative reaction when somebody tells me that they are a high school teacher, even though I know that not every teacher is a bad person.

I look back now and I think my parents just didn't believe me because it did come off as incredible. I never had a problem with bullying from students. Probably was in about 4 fist fights in total with other students. But, it was the bullying from the teachers that made high school a living hell for me. There's a lot of reasons why I feel sorry for this parent, but I really felt for him because he simply could not fathom that this stuff goes on. It does and the country really needs to wake up on putting every teacher on a pedastal.







YR

I don't know where you get your information, but this is DEAD WRONG in my state!

I am a tenured teacher in MO. I can tell you that I can be fired at any time. The ONLY thing tenure does is give me due process. If I am not an effective teacher anymore, all my administrator needs to do is meet with me.....tell me the areas that are lacking....and give me an opportunity to correct it. If I don't, they can let me go.

One of the men I teach with (who is a fantastic teacher, BTW) questioned one of our administrators about an issue he thought was unfair. He was very much in danger of being fired. As a matter of fact, he would have been fired....but, he had to agree to read a book on effective communication strategies, and he had to meet with me (I was to act as a mentor and go-between) to discuss the book.

I agree....many teachers in the profession are in it because they don't know what else to do. Many teachers, especially later in their careers, check out. These teachers need to be replaced. But, don't blame the teachers. If you have effective administrators, then bad teachers aren't hired year after year. Bad teachers are replaced, or receive training to help them improve.

Most teachers I work with are in the profession because they love kids (nothing is more rewarding than to see the "Now, I get it" look!), they love their content area (history is my PASSION), or they want to make a difference. Actually, most of us are in it for all three reasons.

I honestly don't know what kind of education you had....but for you to have such a negative view of teachers it must have been pretty bad. Rest assured there are still many of us that love the profession, love the students, and love our communities!

[Yakuza Rich]

I don't know where you get your information, but this is DEAD WRONG in my state!

I am a tenured teacher in MO. I can tell you that I can be fired at any time. The ONLY thing tenure does is give me due process. If I am not an effective teacher anymore, all my administrator needs to do is meet with me.....tell me the areas that are lacking....and give me an opportunity to correct it. If I don't, they can let me go.

One of the men I teach with (who is a fantastic teacher, BTW) questioned one of our administrators about an issue he thought was unfair. He was very much in danger of being fired. As a matter of fact, he would have been fired....but, he had to agree to read a book on effective communication strategies, and he had to meet with me (I was to act as a mentor and go-between) to discuss the book.

I agree....many teachers in the profession are in it because they don't know what else to do. Many teachers, especially later in their careers, check out. These teachers need to be replaced. But, don't blame the teachers. If you have effective administrators, then bad teachers aren't hired year after year. Bad teachers are replaced, or receive training to help them improve.

Most teachers I work with are in the profession because they love kids (nothing is more rewarding than to see the "Now, I get it" look!), they love their content area (history is my PASSION), or they want to make a difference. Actually, most of us are in it for all three reasons.

I honestly don't know what kind of education you had....but for you to have such a negative view of teachers it must have been pretty bad. Rest assured there are still many of us that love the profession, love the students, and love our communities!

I grew up in NY.

The original post is talking about a story in NJ. I believe that as far as the rules and regulations with regards to teachers is about the same.

As you can see in this story with the autistic child, one of the offenders was simply relocated to another school. In NY it was virtually the same way. If you had tenure, the only thing that could make you lose your job was either a sexual or physical assault of a child.

In my school we had a tenured athletic director who was also a teacher who misappropriated funds and was deemed to have misappropriated funds thru a hearing. His punishment? He had to leave the school, but this would not be disclosed on his record and he could basically find a job somewhere else.

We had a teacher notorious for physically assaulting students, including myself who assaulted a football player on the football sidelines in front of a couple thousand people and all he got was a slap on the wrist and anytime another student filed a complaint about him assaulting them, the administration buried their head in the sand because there was no evidence.

We had a teacher who was notorious for hitting on girls and just so happened to be dating one of the girls within days of her graduation. This pile of garbage was best friends with the physics teachers until he had an affair with the physics teacher's wife (a computer science teacher). The school's decision? Tell the physics teacher to look for a new job while his wife and the piece of garbage get to keep their job without any reprimand.

We had a teacher who students complained that was going senile, yet kept her job for close to 10 years after this was first being reported. There was one incident in particular that was swept under the rug that I probably can't mention here. Yet, she wound up retiring. Why? She was clinicially suffering from dementia.

Obviously, some states are different. That's why I said earlier in this thread that while I cringe when I hear somebody tell me that they are a teacher, I know that it's not all bad.

But in some states if you have tenure, you just don't get fired unless it's under the most extreme circumstances.









YR

[hipfake08]

I grew up in NY.

The original post is talking about a story in NJ. I believe that as far as the rules and regulations with regards to teachers is about the same.

As you can see in this story with the autistic child, one of the offenders was simply relocated to another school. In NY it was virtually the same way. If you had tenure, the only thing that could make you lose your job was either a sexual or physical assault of a child.

In my school we had a tenured athletic director who was also a teacher who misappropriated funds and was deemed to have misappropriated funds thru a hearing. His punishment? He had to leave the school, but this would not be disclosed on his record and he could basically find a job somewhere else.

We had a teacher notorious for physically assaulting students, including myself who assaulted a football player on the football sidelines in front of a couple thousand people and all he got was a slap on the wrist and anytime another student filed a complaint about him assaulting them, the administration buried their head in the sand because there was no evidence.

We had a teacher who was notorious for hitting on girls and just so happened to be dating one of the girls within days of her graduation. This pile of garbage was best friends with the physics teachers until he had an affair with the physics teacher's wife (a computer science teacher). The school's decision? Tell the physics teacher to look for a new job while his wife and the piece of garbage get to keep their job without any reprimand.

We had a teacher who students complained that was going senile, yet kept her job for close to 10 years after this was first being reported. There was one incident in particular that was swept under the rug that I probably can't mention here. Yet, she wound up retiring. Why? She was clinicially suffering from dementia.

Obviously, some states are different. That's why I said earlier in this thread that while I cringe when I hear somebody tell me that they are a teacher, I know that it's not all bad.

But in some states if you have tenure, you just don't get fired unless it's under the most extreme circumstances.









YR

The NJEA holds the parents and voters under their thumb. Who do you think is the top contributor to the campaigns and the party in power in NJ.

Look no furthur than the NJEA. You wouder why they go after this most powerful lobby. All they do is protect the bad at the cost of the 90% better educators in place.

You are right YR.

[The30YardSlant]

Yes, so $32K a year(not working summers), is not great money for someone who goes to school for 4yrs. It is great money for someone who is not college educated starting out.

In the United States, the average starting salary of a new worker with a four-year bachelor's degree is $31,500.00. Even the highest average starting salaries for four year graduates are only around $60,000. That is IF you get a job, as less than half of first year postgrads obtain a job in their desired career field these days.

The issue with teaching isnt the startign salary, it's the salary ceiling. Typically you have to work in the same district for 20+ years to crack $60,000 unless it's a very, very nice district (Katy or Highland Park, for instance).

[The30YardSlant]

I don't know where you get your information, but this is DEAD WRONG in my state!

I am a tenured teacher in MO. I can tell you that I can be fired at any time. The ONLY thing tenure does is give me due process. If I am not an effective teacher anymore, all my administrator needs to do is meet with me.....tell me the areas that are lacking....and give me an opportunity to correct it. If I don't, they can let me go.

One of the men I teach with (who is a fantastic teacher, BTW) questioned one of our administrators about an issue he thought was unfair. He was very much in danger of being fired. As a matter of fact, he would have been fired....but, he had to agree to read a book on effective communication strategies, and he had to meet with me (I was to act as a mentor and go-between) to discuss the book.

I agree....many teachers in the profession are in it because they don't know what else to do. Many teachers, especially later in their careers, check out. These teachers need to be replaced. But, don't blame the teachers. If you have effective administrators, then bad teachers aren't hired year after year. Bad teachers are replaced, or receive training to help them improve.

Most teachers I work with are in the profession because they love kids (nothing is more rewarding than to see the "Now, I get it" look!), they love their content area (history is my PASSION), or they want to make a difference. Actually, most of us are in it for all three reasons.

I honestly don't know what kind of education you had....but for you to have such a negative view of teachers it must have been pretty bad. Rest assured there are still many of us that love the profession, love the students, and love our communities!

Tenure means a lot more at universities than in does in K-12. A college professor, especially at a major university, essentially has to be caught on film commiting a felony to be fired. And that is not an exaggeration.

Now, grade school teachers are very different because frankly they are a dime a dozen and there will be 1,000 people lined up to apply for any job that comes open.

[hipfake08]

The issue with teaching isnt the startign salary, it's the salary ceiling. Typically you have to work in the same district for 20+ years to crack $60,000 unless it's a very, very nice district (Katy or Highland Park, for instance).

Or just about anywhere in New Jersey where the bottom is well over 35K and the top is about $110K.

[tomson75]

Or just about anywhere in New Jersey where the bottom is well over 35K and the top is about $110K.

You would have to pay me a lot more than that to teach middle or high school students in New Jersey. A LOT more.

[Chocolate Lab]

You would have to pay me a lot more than that to teach middle or high school students in New Jersey. A LOT more.

Yeah.

This isn't about the vid at all because I didn't even watch it. And I don't question that some teachers need to be fired but aren't. (That sounds more like a strong-union question than anything, which is why there's a difference between states.)

But I don't envy teachers at all. As I think Idgit said earlier, there's a big disconnect between teachers and parents that used to not exist. When I was a kid, parents sided with the teacher. You were sent to school and were expected to do as you were told. If you did something wrong and the teacher punished you somehow, you deserved it. Now, too many parents believe their child is an angel who couldn't possibly ever be wrong, and at the first little incident, the teacher is being attacked for being mean to their precious. (Same thing with coaches, btw.)

I feel bad for them having to deal with unruly kids *and* their parents these days. It's just a different mentality that parents seem to have now.

(And again to be clear, this is not about what happened to the autistic child. If a teacher is a sorry SOB, of course they should be disciplined.)

[Yakuza Rich]

But I don't envy teachers at all. As I think Idgit said earlier, there's a big disconnect between teachers and parents that used to not exist. When I was a kid, parents sided with the teacher. You were sent to school and were expected to do as you were told. If you did something wrong and the teacher punished you somehow, you deserved it. Now, too many parents believe their child is an angel who couldn't possibly ever be wrong, and at the first little incident, the teacher is being attacked for being mean to their precious. (Same thing with coaches, btw.)

I actually agree with this. I've never had to deal with this personally since I'm not a teacher or a coach. But, I've seen it up close and personal with others. There's a woman who manages a golf course I belong to and she basically allowed the kids to use a small ramp for skating in an area near the golf course as long as they didn't bother the golfers. The kids would hide the ramp behind a tree. One day the ramp went missing and the kid yelled at her, saying that she took the ramp away (which she had nothing to do with). Then the kids started skating thru the parking lot and bothering golfers. When the woman pulled them aside and told them to knock it off and how she let them have the ramp there even though the course was under no obligation, the kid skated off and called her a foul name at the top of his lungs. I was on the driving range hearing this and wanted to strangle the kid myself.

Of course, the mother calls up and the kid concocts a completely different story to his mother. His mother shows up to the course and starts yelling at the woman. I see it happening and intervene and tell the mother that I witnessed the entire thing and I don't work there and saw exactly what her 'angel' did. Incredibly, but not surprisingly, the mother starts yelling at me, which of course prompted me to yell back and put her down every single way I could.

That's why I wrote earlier in this thread that parents really need to be skeptical of BOTH their children and the teachers and what they say. I hate the high school I went to because of the teachers. Oddly enough, I got along swimmingly with the Principal. But, his hands were tied most of the time with the crap that went on. I had friends and family that went to other schools who had the same type of behavior and personality as I did and they didn't have much trouble with teachers. And I believe that it was a case of a different school with better teachers.

But the main point is that there are some bad teachers out there that are in it for all of the wrong reasons. Acting like that is never the case or an exception to the rule is just as bad as thinking your child is an angel. Treat every situation for what they are instead of what you pre-judge them to be.









YR

[CanadianCowboysFan]

You would have to pay me a lot more than that to teach middle or high school students in New Jersey. A LOT more.

you don't want to teach a room full of Snookies, Deenas and JWowwws?

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Yeah.

This isn't about the vid at all because I didn't even watch it. And I don't question that some teachers need to be fired but aren't. (That sounds more like a strong-union question than anything, which is why there's a difference between states.)

But I don't envy teachers at all. As I think Idgit said earlier, there's a big disconnect between teachers and parents that used to not exist. When I was a kid, parents sided with the teacher. You were sent to school and were expected to do as you were told. If you did something wrong and the teacher punished you somehow, you deserved it. Now, too many parents believe their child is an angel who couldn't possibly ever be wrong, and at the first little incident, the teacher is being attacked for being mean to their precious. (Same thing with coaches, btw.)

I feel bad for them having to deal with unruly kids *and* their parents these days. It's just a different mentality that parents seem to have now.


I understand what you mean but I am not going to let some butthead teacher ruin my son's self-esteem by shaming him by making him stand outside class if he is loud, make him feel badly for whatever.

Irony of course is that I let his hockey coaches do more to him than his teachers. Then again, his hockey coaches know better how to handle 8 year old boys than any of the battle axes he has had for teachers so far.