Dallas baby dies after pit bull mauling, police say

[Dallas]

A newborn boy died Monday night after being mauled by the family pit bull while police were responding to a domestic violence call at the home, MyFoxDFW.com reported.
The baby's father, Barnett Bruce, began arguing with the child's mother, Jessica Oxford, shortly after Oxford brought the child over, police said.
Three-month-old Rayden Bruce's grandfather was holding the infant while the parents argued. Police were called after the argument escalated into pushing. When police arrived, one officer took the mother's statement outside while another spoke to the father inside.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/25/dallas-baby-dies-after-pit-bull-mauling-police-say/?test=latestnews#ixzz27V8J7b2U



Never have been a fan of this breed. Strange how they are always in the headlines for attacking and or killing someone or some child.

Sad

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Wow so sad. Never been a fan of pit bills either.

[03EBZ06]

Wow, that's crazy.

I've never owned a pit bull but have had lot of dogs, large size dogs and I've never, ever left my infant alone with dogs or dogs can get to my infants. If baby was asleep, door will be closed, while I trusted my dogs, never wanted to take any chance with my infants.

[Ren]

Problem isn't so much the breed as it is over breeding, irresponsible breeders mating the most aggressive dogs and stupid owners. If people where doing the same thing with German shepherds are they are with Pitbulls that breed would be a problem too.

[BBQ101]

Never have been a fan of this breed. Strange how they are always in the headlines for attacking and or killing someone or some child.

Sad

I have owned one pit bull in my life and she was a damn good dog. My mom grew up with them and was even saved by one. They are like any other dog, if you bring them up well, they are a good and faithful companion. If you socialize them, they are fine with other people and animals.

Just like any other breed however, if you treat them like ****, hide them away from other people, teach them to be mean...etc they will turn out bad.

They show up on the news because they are the ones that have the ability to maim and kill. There is a reason they are used as fighting dogs. They have an incredibly strong frame and jaws, and a very high tolerance for pain. It is very hard to stop a pitbull once one gets a hold of something. Plus, most people fear them for their reputation. Sells news better.

BBQ

[CashMan]

I have owned one pit bull in my life and she was a damn good dog. My mom grew up with them and was even saved by one. They are like any other dog, if you bring them up well, they are a good and faithful companion. If you socialize them, they are fine with other people and animals.

Just like any other breed however, if you treat them like ****, hide them away from other people, teach them to be mean...etc they will turn out bad.

They show up on the news because they are the ones that have the ability to maim and kill. There is a reason they are used as fighting dogs. They have an incredibly strong frame and jaws, and a very high tolerance for pain. It is very hard to stop a pitbull once one gets a hold of something. Plus, most people fear them for their reputation. Sells news better.

BBQ


Typical response from a pit bull owner. They have personality, they wouldn't hurt a fly. Look at the statistics.

[a_minimalist]

pitbulls are the juice heads of the dog world....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KXG8BxpEUAo/TZiUWw_i8TI/AAAAAAAAABY/OjI-EWZJY-w/s1600/pitbull.jpg

I love dogs more than anything but that is one breed I would not want to own. I don't frighten easily but if I'm around a pit bull I am always hyper aware and ready for the worst. I don't trust that dog one bit.

[Ren]

Typical response from a pit bull owner. They have personality, they wouldn't hurt a fly. Look at the statistics.

Statistics say you are far more likely to be attacked by a chihuahua or some other small dog then you are a pitbull.

The difference is when the Pitbull attacks you it has to potential to kill or seriously injure when a chihuahua attacks you it's just cute. People don't bother to put as much effort into training them properly cause they are small and harmless when the same kind of attitude mixes with a pitbull or a rottweiler you get a very dangerous dog

[dexternjack]

pitbulls are the juice heads of the dog world....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KXG8BxpEUAo/TZiUWw_i8TI/AAAAAAAAABY/OjI-EWZJY-w/s1600/pitbull.jpg

I love dogs more than anything but that is one breed I would not want to own. I don't frighten easily but if I'm around a pit bull I am always hyper aware and ready for the worst. I don't trust that dog one bit.
Those dogs do have pre-determined genetics that make them lethal. Of course, it is possible to raise them right and for the most part, they can turn out to be a good dog. But there is always that factor that can make them snap at any time, it is in their blood.

Responsible owners play a large role in their behavior but that type of breed (interbreeding from old english terrier and english bulldog) are used to hunt and herd, it is part of their nature.

My neighbor has a white pit-bull and it is gorgeous, strong in stature. He has a teddy bear nature and loves my wife's 5 lb chihuahua, he will curl up in his belly and sleep there. A stranger can walk up and scare that big dog and nothing will happen.

For the most part, those dogs are dangerous and can't be trusted, but there is always the exception. Some may seem like a non-threat but there is always that chance that they will snap out of nowhere and without warning. I would never own one even if I had kids or not, just too risky.

[dexternjack]

Statistics say you are far more likely to be attacked by a chihuahua or some other small dog then you are a pitbull.

The difference is when the Pitbull attacks you it has to potential to kill or seriously injure when a chihuahua attacks you it's just cute. People don't bother to put as much effort into training them properly cause they are small and harmless when the same kind of attitude mixes with a pitbull or a rottweiler you get a very dangerous dog
LOL, my wifes can bite the best of ankle's. He doesn't bite, but snaps while trying to intimidate. He does not do that often though, usually when my little girl is with us, he thinks he is a bodyguard.

[tomson75]

Problem isn't so much the breed as it is over breeding, irresponsible breeders mating the most aggressive dogs and stupid owners. If people where doing the same thing with German shepherds are they are with Pitbulls that breed would be a problem too.

This.

Pit bulls can be among the best family dogs out....it's the gangster-wannabies out there that are ruining the breed.

[a_minimalist]

But there is always that factor that can make them snap at any time, it is in their blood.

This is why I am the way I am. Don't get me wrong though, they are an awesome specimen to look at. If they weren't prone to just losing their mind and attacking I would think about owning one. The fact that they can't be trusted and even the friendliest dogs have snapped doesn't sit well with me. I also don't trust a lot of people to train them properly. The majority I see who own one aren't the most intelligent human beings.

[BBQ101]

Typical response from a pit bull owner. They have personality, they wouldn't hurt a fly. Look at the statistics.

Try reading what I wrote in your quote. I certainly didn't say anything about not hurting a fly.

I don't own a pitbull at present. Instead I have a 30 pound terrier mix. Still, that 30 pound dog could kill an infant just as easily as the pitbull in the story. The difference isn't the dog, it is the dog owner.

But keep on with your stereotypical nonsense about a breed you apparently only know through sensational news stories.

BBQ

[Ren]

LOL, my wifes can bite the best of ankle's. He doesn't bite, but snaps while trying to intimidate. He does not do that often though, usually when my little girl is with us, he thinks he is a bodyguard.

There's a Yorkshire terrier in my building that tries to fight every one and everything, it's half the size of a cat :laugh2:

[joseephuss]

That is why most people should stick to pet rocks and chia pets.

[Dallas]

pitbulls are the juice heads of the dog world....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KXG8BxpEUAo/TZiUWw_i8TI/AAAAAAAAABY/OjI-EWZJY-w/s1600/pitbull.jpg

I love dogs more than anything but that is one breed I would not want to own. I don't frighten easily but if I'm around a pit bull I am always hyper aware and ready for the worst. I don't trust that dog one bit.

I have to agree w/ you. I don't let my son around friends w/ pit-bulls in the home. I just can't take that chance. He totally understands why and has never questioned why we do this. The breed scares him and he has never had an issue w/ them being overly aggressive, and he loves all dogs.

[Dallas]

This.

Pit bulls can be among the best family dogs out....it's the gangster-wannabies out there that are ruining the breed.


tomson. Good to see you bro. I always like when you post. So, this family doesn't appear to be a gangster-wannabe family.

What could have provoked that dog to attack a sleeping baby while nobody was in the room?

[DallasCowpoke]

My wieners are very dangerous and unpredictable! Here they teach neighbor Phil what happens when you attempt to steal leftover tuna noodle casserole.

ZoTPcwPfVzM

[Dallas]

My wieners are very dangerous and unpredictable! Here they teach neighbor Phil what happens when you attempt to steal leftover tuna noodle casserole.

ZoTPcwPfVzM


Lol. I have always have liked those little runts of yours. Thanks for posting DC.

[DallasCowpoke]

Lol. I have always have liked those little runts of yours. Thanks for posting DC.

You better keep a low profile bro...They nearly ripped the anklet-socks off my buddy Stan the Okie! :p:

[tomson75]

tomson. Good to see you bro. I always like when you post. So, this family doesn't appear to be a gangster-wannabe family.

What could have provoked that dog to attack a sleeping baby while nobody was in the room?

Thanks man, the respect is mutual...

I think the whole breed has been effected by the gangster mentality. Over the course of the last 20 years, there are way too many irresponsible pit breeders that are effecting the whole well being of the breed. It's sad....40 years ago, pit bulls rarely attacked other dogs, and attacks on people were even more infrequent.

Damn shame.

That's one reason I'm such a fan of boxers, am-staffs, and American bulldogs....same great looks, personality, short coat, and toughness...but with a far lower degree of aggression bred in to the breeds as a whole. All safer picks, especially if you have little ones running around. Although I still believe 99% of responsibly bred pit bulls are very safe around kids....why take that chance? No dog is worth potential harm to your child.

[tomson75]

I've been bitten by two breeds of dogs that were large enough to matter...a standard Poodle, and a giant *** dachshund. Both required medical attention. True story.

[Diogenes]

If I had sufficient background information on the dog's environment and lineage, I would have no problem owning an American Pit Bull. In general the American Pit Bull does not display a natural aggressiveness towards people. Of course there are always exceptions with many of the reasons having already been touched on in this thread. Contrast that with say, the Presa Canario, a breed in which I would never entertain the thought of owning.

Good stuff:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/canarydog.htm

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanpitbull.htm

[a_minimalist]

Thanks man, the respect is mutual...

I think the whole breed has been effected by the gangster mentality. Over the course of the last 20 years, there are way too many irresponsible pit breeders that are effecting the whole well being of the breed. It's sad....40 years ago, pit bulls rarely attacked other dogs, and attacks on people were even more infrequent.

Damn shame.

That's one reason I'm such a fan of boxers, am-staffs, and American bulldogs....same great looks, personality, short coat, and toughness...but with a far lower degree of aggression bred in to the breeds as a whole. All safer picks, especially if you have little ones running around. Although I still believe 99% of responsibly bred pit bulls are very safe around kids....why take that chance? No dog is worth potential harm to your child.

I'm with you on boxers. They are my favorite dog.

[5Stars]

Come on guys...pit bulls are Vick's favorite dogs.

:cool:

[jobberone]

I think it is rare for a dog to attack someone in its pack. Some dogs are inherently hardwired to be protective and the pit bull is one. My boxer is very protective and one of the gentlest dogs I ever been around. I think there are bad owners who teach dogs aggression. Many dogs can be taught to attack a stranger on command but inherently they would not go out of their way to attack a human.

Most of the attacks on small children are because someone has gotten an animal excited and the child's cries/voice/movements trigger a prey response. Once triggered a dog that size will shake a baby to death or mortality injure the baby in seconds. My guess is the aggression and intense emotions frightened and excited the animal and then something triggered a prey response. Now the animal will pay for it with its life and an innocent babe is already dead.

[DallasCowpoke]

Local news is reporting the dog actually belonged to the child's grandfather and had attacked another person once before.

The grandfather surrendered the dog and requested it be euthanized. Animal Control did so this afternoon.

[zrinkill]

Try reading what I wrote in your quote. I certainly didn't say anything about not hurting a fly.

I don't own a pitbull at present. Instead I have a 30 pound terrier mix. Still, that 30 pound dog could kill an infant just as easily as the pitbull in the story. The difference isn't the dog, it is the dog owner.

But keep on with your stereotypical nonsense about a breed you apparently only know through sensational news stories.

BBQ

This ...

[Faerluna]

Pit bulls are also the most mislabeled dog. If the dog has a big head, it's a pit bull.

Do you know which one is actually a pit bull?

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

[StarBoyz83]

I dont like pits and thats why right there. Thats horrible that happened absolutely horrible.

[CashMan]

Pit bulls are also the most mislabeled dog. If the dog has a big head, it's a pit bull.

Do you know which one is actually a pit bull?

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


Either #1 or #23, think its 23.

[tomson75]

Either #1 or #23, think its 23.

Nope.

[dexternjack]

Either #1 or #23, think its 23.
#16

If you click on the pics, it tells ya what kind of dogs they are. They are all very similar.

[jobberone]

I guess 16. My friend had a Bordeau. Wonderful animal.

[ZBTHorton]

Never really understood the whole "Pit Bulls are just fine if you raise them right" argument.

Tons of animals are fine if you raise them right. Cheetahs are very docile creatures in the right atmosphere, doesn't mean I should be able to raise one in my house.

I'm sure if you raised almost any reasonable sized animal from birth in your house he could be a great pet. But that doesn't mean you should be able to do it. Nor does it mean you should subject other people to potentially having some sort of issue.

"You always hear about pits because they are so big and strong that they do more damage than other breeds, not because they attack more".

mmmkay. Then they sound like they shouldn't be allowed to be pets to me.

[jobberone]

Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to December 26, 2011

By compiling U.S. and Canadian press accounts between 1982 and 2011,1 Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, shows the breeds most responsible for serious injury and death.
Download Study
Download 30-Year Summary Report
Study highlights
The combination of pit bulls, rottweilers, their close mixes and wolf hybrids:

77% of attacks that induce bodily harm
73% of attacks to children
81% of attack to adults
68% of attacks that result in fatalities
76% that result in maiming

Discussion notes:

Even if the pit bull category was "split three ways," attacks by pit bulls and their closest relatives would still outnumber attacks by any other breed.
Pit bulls are noteworthy for attacking adults almost as frequently as children, a characteristic not shared by any other breed.
If a pit bull or rottweiler has a bad moment, instead of being bitten, often someone is maimed or killed; that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk.

1982-2011 chart Breed Bodily harm Child Victims Adult Victims Deaths Maimings % of dog population
Pit bull terrier 1970 826 687 207 1093 .033
Rottweiler 481 272 126 78 268 .003
Husky 66 41 4 22 18 .020
Wolf hybrid 84 69 5 19 48 .001
Bullmastiff (Presa canario) 76 30 28 11 44 .002
German shepherd 89 56 25 12 54 .014
German shepherd-mix 54 33 14 9 32
Pit bull-mix 130 56 31 8 74
Akita 65 42 19 8 47 .004
Chow 54 36 15 7 36 .007
Doberman 15 8 7 7 7 .007

*Chart ordered by number of deaths; includes only a portion of breeds listed in report.
Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to December 26, 2011, by Merritt Clifton, Animal People, December 26, 2011.

[Dash28]

I'm with you on boxers. They are my favorite dog.

I love my two boxers, but my pit is just as good a dog as they are. It's mostly the crazy breeding and irresponsible owners that ruin the pit breed.

That's why it's highly important to use legit breeding services, etc.

[a_minimalist]

I love my two boxers, but my pit is just as good a dog as they are. It's mostly the crazy breeding and irresponsible owners that ruin the pit breed.

That's why it's highly important to use legit breeding services, etc.

Yeah I don't doubt that at all. There's no part of me that could ever trust that breed though. That's my own issue.

[Dallas]

I'm with you on boxers. They are my favorite dog.

Agreed. Boxers are an excellent breed. I dated a girl who's father was a breeder of them in Tulsa.

Sweet dogs.

[Vtwin]

Problem isn't so much the breed as it is over breeding, irresponsible breeders mating the most aggressive dogs and stupid owners. If people where doing the same thing with German shepherds are they are with Pitbulls that breed would be a problem too.


German Shepherds were the pitbulls of the 1970's. A large spike in popularity lead to irresponsible breeding and people taking in large, intelligient, high-drive animals that need the right environment to develop normally.

The result was, every time a poorly bred and improperly raised GSD bit someone it made the news and they got the same rep that pits have now.

It will be interesting to see which breed turns up next at the top of the hit list.

[CashMan]

German Shepherds were the pitbulls of the 1970's. A large spike in popularity lead to irresponsible breeding and people taking in large, intelligient, high-drive animals that need the right environment to develop normally.

The result was, every time a poorly bred and improperly raised GSD bit someone it made the news and they got the same rep that pits have now.

It will be interesting to see which breed turns up next at the top of the hit list.


There is a reason, why Shepards are used as military/police dogs and pit bulls are not. So, I do not think it will just shift to another breed. Part of it is environment, I think a majority is genetics.

[Faerluna]

German Shepherds were the pitbulls of the 1970's.

Then it was the dobermans in the 80's. The the Rotweillers in the 90's. Now it's the pit bulls.

Nobody ever looks at the other end of the leash for the problem.

[ABQCOWBOY]

There is so much wrong with this thread.

[joseephuss]

Then it was the dobermans in the 80's. The the Rotweillers in the 90's. Now it's the pit bulls.

Nobody ever looks at the other end of the leash for the problem.

The pit bulls started in the 90s. The dobies were in the late 70s and early 80s.

It is the other end of the leash that are dragging down these breeds.

[ABQCOWBOY]

If people don't want their children around Pitt Bulls, that's fine. If people don't want to be around Pitt Bulls, that's fine. I do not agree with people who want to ban Pitt Bulls or kill them outright. That's ignorance and never a good policy IMO.

[StylisticS]

My dad has a pit. Cool dogs. I showed her once in that snow picture last year on this board. Very nice towards people. She barks but that's all she is about when she actually is with people. I still like Rottweilers better though.

[joseephuss]

If people don't want their children around Pitt Bulls, that's fine. If people don't want to be around Pitt Bulls, that's fine. I do not agree with people who want to ban Pitt Bulls or kill them outright. That's ignorance and never a good policy IMO.

I am not promoting doing this, but it is easier to ban Pit Bulls and enforce that ban than to make sure only people who know what they are doing own them. It is too far reaching, but it is an easy solution.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I am not promoting doing this, but it is easier to ban Pit Bulls and enforce that ban than to make sure only people who know what they are doing own them. It is too far reaching, but it is an easy solution.

Easy for who? Not for the Animals themselves. We all know what happens to banned animals.

You start going down that path and pretty soon it will be Dobbies, then Rotties, then Boxers etc. This is one of those things that once you put it in motion, you can't say where it might stop.

[jobberone]

If you ban Pit Bulls then do you also ban a mixed breed with Pit Bull and if so how much. How do you prove a mixed breed has or doesn't have Pit Bull? What about banning all the top ten dogs responsible for the majority of attacks? While that would temporarily likely reduce morbidity and mortality, people would find or develop breeds to replace those dogs and you'd be back to square one.

You cannot legislate morality or outlaw stupidity. Heck, you can't even define it.

[iceberg]

I am not promoting doing this, but it is easier to ban Pit Bulls and enforce that ban than to make sure only people who know what they are doing own them. It is too far reaching, but it is an easy solution.

it's easier to ban just about anything than figure it out.

these days we're banning just about everything cause it's just not good for you.

there are hard parts of life. you simply can't ban them and pretend it's better.

[dreghorn2]

German Shepherds were the pitbulls of the 1970's. A large spike in popularity lead to irresponsible breeding and people taking in large, intelligient, high-drive animals that need the right environment to develop normally.

The result was, every time a poorly bred and improperly raised GSD bit someone it made the news and they got the same rep that pits have now.

It will be interesting to see which breed turns up next at the top of the hit list.

So much misinformation in this thread. Not in this post though.

[Faerluna]

I am not promoting doing this, but it is easier to ban Pit Bulls and enforce that ban than to make sure only people who know what they are doing own them. It is too far reaching, but it is an easy solution.

Breed Specific Legislation is an ugly path to take. It gets worldwide attention when a dog like Lennox (http://www.savelennox.co.uk/) is confiscated, proven by DNA to not even be a pit bull, confined unjustly for 2 years and then killed anyway for no lawful reason.

I just read this yesterday, too:

http://everythingworthknowingilearnedfrommydog.wordpress. com/2012/09/24/still-think-your-labrador-retriever-is-safe-think-again/

Another fine example (one of many) of the people in charge being ones that no absolutely nothing about the subject of the laws they are enforcing, to the detriment of all pets and pet owners alike.

[joseephuss]

Breed Specific Legislation is an ugly path to take. It gets worldwide attention when a dog like Lennox (http://www.savelennox.co.uk/) is confiscated, proven by DNA to not even be a pit bull, confined unjustly for 2 years and then killed anyway for no lawful reason.

I just read this yesterday, too:

http://everythingworthknowingilearnedfrommydog.wordpress. com/2012/09/24/still-think-your-labrador-retriever-is-safe-think-again/

Another fine example (one of many) of the people in charge being ones that no absolutely nothing about the subject of the laws they are enforcing, to the detriment of all pets and pet owners alike.

I agree. I wouldn't want to see that path taken.

[tomson75]

Never really understood the whole "Pit Bulls are just fine if you raise them right" argument.

Tons of animals are fine if you raise them right. Cheetahs are very docile creatures in the right atmosphere, doesn't mean I should be able to raise one in my house.

I'm sure if you raised almost any reasonable sized animal from birth in your house he could be a great pet. But that doesn't mean you should be able to do it. Nor does it mean you should subject other people to potentially having some sort of issue.

"You always hear about pits because they are so big and strong that they do more damage than other breeds, not because they attack more".

mmmkay. Then they sound like they shouldn't be allowed to be pets to me.

This post is total BS.

[dexternjack]

This post is total BS.
Haha, was thinking the same. I always wanted a hippo as a pet. I bet I can raise it in my pool, think I can safely swim with him?

There are wild and domesticated animals, most of the wild ones can never be domesticated. That snuggly cheetah will someday eat your beloved family dog and there is nothing that can be done about it, it is in their nature.

I'm sure Siegfried and Roy would not condone having tigers as pets :)

Pit-bulls are not wild animals, but if they are not raised right and/or mistreated, they have the ability to snap. This falls on the master and imbeciles should not own them. I am not in favor of banning them though, we never hear the good stories, which probably outweigh the bad ones.

[Faerluna]

I am not in favor of banning them though, we never hear the good stories, which probably outweigh the bad ones.

Here's one that just happened near us:

http://www.fluvannareview.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4051

More interesting pit bull info:

http://www.ywgrossman.com/photoblog/?p=676

[ZBTHorton]

Haha, was thinking the same. I always wanted a hippo as a pet. I bet I can raise it in my pool, think I can safely swim with him?


Nice reading comprehension there. I used the word "reasonable". Pretty sure a hippo isn't reasonable.



There are wild and domesticated animals, most of the wild ones can never be domesticated. That snuggly cheetah will someday eat your beloved family dog and there is nothing that can be done about it, it is in their nature.


Actually. Dogs are used as companions for cheetahs in lots of zoos.

Example: http://shine.yahoo.com/animal-nation/dogs-cheetahs-unlikely-friends-185400115.html
Another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndlf5_L5gsE
Another: http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/cheetah-dog-friendship-10010528




I'm sure Siegfried and Roy would not condone having tigers as pets :)



Tigers are also...obviously not reasonable.

I used the cheetah example specifically because they are so docile. Another good example would be the fox, who is actually trained and owned as a pet in some countries(Russia for one).

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1G2yZMUNUQ

[Ren]

There is a reason, why Shepards are used as military/police dogs and pit bulls are not. So, I do not think it will just shift to another breed. Part of it is environment, I think a majority is genetics.

They are easy to train yet incredibly strong, smart and fearless, the perfect dogs for that kind of work. Treat them with the same irresponsible neglect a lot of pitbulls are and they can be just as dangerous, they are not born trained. Luckily for the breed they are not the "cool" dog so most of the people who get them are pretty responsible.
Heroin junkies used to use these dogs in Oslo for protection when they got high and those dogs where anything but safe to approach or be around and there's a lot of heroin junkies in Oslo so it was not uncommon to come across one that was off its leash. Because of this i've seen far more aggressive German shepherds then i have pitbulls. Genetics or owners?

[tomson75]

Nice reading comprehension there. I used the word "reasonable". Pretty sure a hippo isn't reasonable.



Actually. Dogs are used as companions for cheetahs in lots of zoos.

Example: http://shine.yahoo.com/animal-nation/dogs-cheetahs-unlikely-friends-185400115.html
Another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndlf5_L5gsE
Another: http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/cheetah-dog-friendship-10010528




Tigers are also...obviously not reasonable.

I used the cheetah example specifically because they are so docile. Another good example would be the fox, who is actually trained and owned as a pet in some countries(Russia for one).

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1G2yZMUNUQ

:laugh2:

Wow.

[dexternjack]

Nice reading comprehension there. I used the word "reasonable". Pretty sure a hippo isn't reasonable.

I was being sarcastic because it is unreasonable to compare a dog to a cheetah, they have the instinct to hunt and kill, which will always be there. They might be ok for awhile, but it won't last.

[ZBTHorton]

I was being sarcastic because it is unreasonable to compare a dog to a cheetah, they have the instinct to hunt and kill, which will always be there. They might be ok for awhile, but it won't last.

Just to be clear, in order to prove your point about how a cheetah and dog can't be compared, you talked about a hippo?

There was a fair bit of hyperbole in my original post, I guess that didn't fully go through. I'm not even sure that I think Pit Bulls should be banned or illegal or whatever we're really talking about, I honestly don't have enough information to make that kind of decision. But I do think there is definitely merit behind an argument that any animal that becomes dangerous to human beings if it isn't trained properly possibly shouldn't be allowed to be a house hold pet. I don't know where that line should be drawn, nor do I know if it's not being drawn correctly right now, but it is worthy of discussion IMO.

[dexternjack]

Just to be clear, in order to prove your point about how a cheetah and dog can't be compared, you talked about a hippo?

There was a fair bit of hyperbole in my original post, I guess that didn't fully go through. I'm not even sure that I think Pit Bulls should be banned or illegal or whatever we're really talking about, I honestly don't have enough information to make that kind of decision. But I do think there is definitely merit behind an argument that any animal that becomes dangerous to human beings if it isn't trained properly possibly shouldn't be allowed to be a house hold pet. I don't know where that line should be drawn, nor do I know if it's not being drawn correctly right now, but it is worthy of discussion IMO.
Sorry, I went overboard with the hippo example, always liked them so I threw it in there.

I agree that any animal that poses a threat should be handled differently. I just think training can only go so far in exotic/wild animals, they have an instinct that will always be there IMO. Those along with pit-bulls, Rots and other known powerful dogs are a bad combination to own if children are around because things can turn in an instant.

As far as canines go, there are good and bad ones in every breed, but the big ones get all the negative attention which is not called for in most cases.

[tupperware]

Just wanted to say that I think it's funny you can't use statistics to back up dog attacks but you can use them to back up your Quarterback.

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Just wanted to say that I think it's funny you can't use statistics to back up dog attacks but you can use them to back up your Quarterback.

Football and real life things like this are much different.

[jobberone]

There is a reason, why Shepards are used as military/police dogs and pit bulls are not. So, I do not think it will just shift to another breed. Part of it is environment, I think a majority is genetics.

Pit bulls and boxer are used in the military and for family, guard, defense, and offense protection. Some of the predilection for use of some breeds is some breeders have used a certain breed for many years and they can rely on the temperament of those dogs for training then sales.

[DFWJC]

Problem isn't so much the breed as it is over breeding, irresponsible breeders mating the most aggressive dogs and stupid owners. If people where doing the same thing with German shepherds are they are with Pitbulls that breed would be a problem too.

True.

But they are doing it with Pits and it's been going on for 40+ years now.

Time to lay down heavy penalties or jail time for owners whose dogs maul innocent victims. Plain and simple.

I hear the same stories about how they are so loving--I bet this one was too--but, the gene pool is massively corrupted at this point. I met some really cool Pits before, but the pattern is way too clear and no freakin way I'm leaving my kid around even the most docile one. And if one did attack and kill my kid, I would almost for sure kill the owner.

In this case, it was not someone else's child, so they will live with this forever. But even then, it's almost unforgivable.

Sorry for the rant.
As with all of this stuff...it is just my opinion.

[jobberone]

True.

But they are doing it with Pits and it's been going on for 40+ years now.

Time to lay down heavy penalties or jail time for owners whose dogs maul innocent victims. Plain and simple.

I hear the same stories about how they are so loving--I bet this one was too--but, the gene pool is massively corrupted at this point. I met some really cool Pits before, but the pattern is way too clear and no freakin way I'm leaving my kid around even the most docile one. And if one did attack and kill my kid, I would almost for sure kill the owner.

In this case, it was not someone else's child, so they will live with this forever. But even then, it's almost unforgivable.

Sorry for the rant.
As with all of this stuff...it is just my opinion.

It's difficult to tell what you're getting from most of those breeders. If you want to get a good temperament dog who will also guard and defend you must be able to control the animal. Many of these dogs are triggered then once triggered they don't have the training or temperament to be called off. They will even turn on their owner in that state. Most of these dogs have not been breed to have an even and trainable temperament and you're right, many have been bred for aggression. This is a dangerous combination.

You want a dog who is Schutzhund or at least bred from them or the like IMO. Unless you want a military/police dog which still requires a good temperament. I think they should control breeding of dogs like this as they do in Germany and other areas of Europe. There would be much less incidents and tragedy.

[Muhast]

I've always had large dog breeds.

I've had a German Shepard, an American Pit Bull Terrier, and a Boxer.

All 3 were great dogs.

The thing about "Pit bull attacks" are that people largely ASSUME a dog is a pit bull and that is what the attack becomes labeled as. On the find the pitbull website that was posted, about 20 of those dogs would be labeled as a Pit Bull attack by the police officers and media. They aren't going to do a DNA testing on the dog to find out what breed exactly it was, they would just say "The owner says it was a pit bull". The fact is that most Pit Bulls you will come in contact with or see in your life are actually mixed breeds. Most "bullies' which refers to the small, extremely large Pits are actually inbred and usually have several other breeds mixed in. One of the largest Blue Pit Bull breeders was known as Razor's Edge Pits, and was caught interbreeding other dogs such as Bull Mastiffs and English Bulldogs to give their "pits" that extremely large head and body but small legs, through several generations of breeding.

The point I'm trying to make are, most pit bulls you will see aren't actually pit bulls. I see people with Staffordshire terriers almost weekly who think they have a pit bull. When I walk my Boxer(pure bred, beautiful dog. Typical Boxer sweet but bouncing all around full of energy) and neighbors ask me about my "pit bull". People are just really ignorant when it comes to dog breeds.

When you click that website you can see how similar dogs like Staffs/Pits/Cane Corsos/Domo Argentino's can all look. To the common person, those are all going to be identified as a Pit Bull. So if ANY of those breeds attack someone, it's a Pit Bull Attack. That really skews the data.

My last thing, of course any dog that is large can do damage, and it's terrible when things like this happen. The thing to remember: Don't punish the breed, punish the owner.

No matter what dog breed you have, it is extremely irresponsible to leave a NEWBORN, unattended with it around. This goes for German Shepards, Chihuahuas, Golden Retrievers or Poodles. It is a terrible idea to leave any newborn or toddler alone with any type of pet. There was a story in the news last year about a parent who came home to find his pet Ferrett had eaten all of the fingers off of his toddler while he was gone. What would possess a parent to think that it is okay to leave him there unattended with it?

[Faerluna]

I've always had large dog breeds.

I've had a German Shepard, an American Pit Bull Terrier, and a Boxer.

All 3 were great dogs.

The thing about "Pit bull attacks" are that people largely ASSUME a dog is a pit bull and that is what the attack becomes labeled as. On the find the pitbull website that was posted, about 20 of those dogs would be labeled as a Pit Bull attack by the police officers and media. They aren't going to do a DNA testing on the dog to find out what breed exactly it was, they would just say "The owner says it was a pit bull". The fact is that most Pit Bulls you will come in contact with or see in your life are actually mixed breeds. Most "bullies' which refers to the small, extremely large Pits are actually inbred and usually have several other breeds mixed in. One of the largest Blue Pit Bull breeders was known as Razor's Edge Pits, and was caught interbreeding other dogs such as Bull Mastiffs and English Bulldogs to give their "pits" that extremely large head and body but small legs, through several generations of breeding.

The point I'm trying to make are, most pit bulls you will see aren't actually pit bulls. I see people with Staffordshire terriers almost weekly who think they have a pit bull. When I walk my Boxer(pure bred, beautiful dog. Typical Boxer sweet but bouncing all around full of energy) and neighbors ask me about my "pit bull". People are just really ignorant when it comes to dog breeds.

When you click that website you can see how similar dogs like Staffs/Pits/Cane Corsos/Domo Argentino's can all look. To the common person, those are all going to be identified as a Pit Bull. So if ANY of those breeds attack someone, it's a Pit Bull Attack. That really skews the data.

My last thing, of course any dog that is large can do damage, and it's terrible when things like this happen. The thing to remember: Don't punish the breed, punish the owner.

No matter what dog breed you have, it is extremely irresponsible to leave a NEWBORN, unattended with it around. This goes for German Shepards, Chihuahuas, Golden Retrievers or Poodles. It is a terrible idea to leave any newborn or toddler alone with any type of pet. There was a story in the news last year about a parent who came home to find his pet Ferrett had eaten all of the fingers off of his toddler while he was gone. What would possess a parent to think that it is okay to leave him there unattended with it?

Spot on, 100%.

[Muhast]

There is a reason, why Shepards are used as military/police dogs and pit bulls are not. So, I do not think it will just shift to another breed. Part of it is environment, I think a majority is genetics.


You must not know that America's most decorated war dog is a pit bull!

Sergeant Stubby.

His breed is unknown, but many including Cesar Milan(The dog whisperer) speculate he is a Pit or a Pit Mix.

"
After being gassed himself, Stubby learned to warn his unit of poison gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_gas) attacks, located wounded soldiers in no man's land (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_man%27s_land), and — since he could hear the whine of incoming artillery shells before humans could — became very adept at letting his unit know when to duck for cover. He was solely responsible for capturing a German spy in the Argonne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meuse-Argonne_Offensive). Following the retaking of Château-Thierry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau-Thierry) by the US, the thankful women of the town made Stubby a chamois coat on which were pinned his many medals. There is also a legend that while in Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris,_France) with Corporal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal#United_States) Conroy, Stubby saved a young girl from being hit by a car. At the end of the war, Conroy smuggled Stubby home.

3 Service Stripes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Stripe)
Yankee Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_Division) YD Patch
French Medal Battle of Verdun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Verdun)
1st Annual American Legion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legion) Convention Medal
New Haven World War I Veterans Medal
Republic of France Grande War Medal
St Mihiel Campaign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saint-Mihiel) Medal
Wound stripe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wound_stripe), replaced with Purple Heart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart) when introduced in 1932
Chateau Thierry Campaign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ch%C3%A2teau-Thierry_%281918%29) Medal
6th Annual American Legion Convention
Humane Education Society Gold MedalNot sure how many others are/have been Pits. But I do know that the most decorated war dog in American History was a pit bull.


http://media-cache-lt0.pinterest.com/upload/91972017360391274_QqJf8xqU_b.jpg

[jobberone]

I largely agree with you Muhast but there are genetic components and hardwiring to dogs. Those without the proper inherent qualities cannot be bred in some countries to be working dogs and for good reason. Not sure what it will take to get responsible breeding in this country and I'm not even advocating a Germanic system. The other problem with breeders is it'd be difficult to monitor them and their product.

But something really needs to be done about the uncontrolled breeding in this country of many breeds.

[Muhast]

I largely agree with you Muhast but there are genetic components and hardwiring to dogs. Those without the proper inherent qualities cannot be bred in some countries to be working dogs and for good reason. Not sure what it will take to get responsible breeding in this country and I'm not even advocating a Germanic system. The other problem with breeders is it'd be difficult to monitor them and their product.

But something really needs to be done about the uncontrolled breeding in this country of many breeds.


I don't have any arguments with that. I said in my post that most Pits you will meet are actually mixed or inbred.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yesterday, a 1 year old child was killed by a Mastiff.

On the 24th, a 2 day old baby was killed by a Husky.

On the 20th, a 2 month old bably was killed by a Golden Retriever (Rescue Dog).


Where's the outrage folks?


It's not just Pits.

[iceberg]

Yesterday, a 1 year old child was killed by a Mastiff.

On the 24th, a 2 day old baby was killed by a Husky.

On the 20th, a 2 month old bably was killed by a Golden Retriever (Rescue Dog).

Where's the outrage folks?

It's not just Pits.

and my akita would have taken out ALL these dogs.

[Muhast]

and my akita would have taken out ALL these dogs.

Akita is the breed of the famous Japanese dog thar went to the train station waiting for his owner every day even after the owner died

[iceberg]

Akita is the breed of the famous Japanese dog thar went to the train station waiting for his owner every day even after the owner died

akitas are by far one of the more intelligent dogs i've come across. when he was a puppy he was in the back yard and my friend brought over his jack russell terrier. the terrier would run around tory and it was obvious the terrier was "quicker". so tory went and hid under a chair and the terrier ran around him 3-4 times before tory just stuck his paw out and smacked him down to the fence. (2-3 feet).

they were bred to pretty much hunt bear. not get them in a corner, but take 'em out.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Typical response from a pit bull owner. They have personality, they wouldn't hurt a fly. Look at the statistics.

My paralegal has a pit bull (well her husband had it first, package deal kind of thing). She is due to give birth in less than a month. I wouldn't have a pitbull around a child but she claims her dog is passive, not a problem etc (yet of course he doesn't listen to her, just her husband).

[jobberone]

I don't have any arguments with that. I said in my post that most Pits you will meet are actually mixed or inbred.

Actually I was referring to the animals temperament. Many breeders just mate dogs. Reputable breeders use excellent bloodlines which have been bred carefully weeding out those with problems including temperament.