bfelt
04-22-2005, 02:47 PM
I’ve viewed several mock drafts in which we select 3-4 DE like Marcus Spears and a 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB like DeMarcus Ware. Below I’ve examined the question of whether, in such a situation, we would seek to trade Greg Ellis or La’Roi Glover.
Who would fit where in the coming year?
In a 3-4, Ferguson will obviously man the NT position. Spears, Ellis, and Glover would all likely be competing for the two DE spots. In a 4-3, Ware would likely man the RDE spot and Ellis or Spears at the LDE, Spears slides inside to DT. In that case, Spears would take Glover's spot, unless it's purely a pass rush situation in which you’d substitute Spears for Ferguson.
From a depth standpoint, it would be clearly beneficial to have all those players in rotation, keeping everyone fresh. That being said, Ellis will be turn 30 this August, and Glover turns 31 in July. We must examine if keeping this players is in the best interests of the franchise.
What are their contract situations?
Glover's contract runs through 2006 with the following compensation:
2005 3000000.00 + 1200000.00 bonus prorating + 500000.00 roster bonus
2006 4500000.00 + 1200000.00 bonus prorating
As far as a standard for comparison, the franchise amount for DTs in 2005 is $5.134 million, the average of the five highest paid players at the position. Over the next two years, Glover will average about 104% of that salary.
As best as I can tell, if we were to trade Glover, $2.4 mill would be accelerated into our cap this year, but we'd be free of his $3 mill salary this year, making it a net gain of $1.8 mill of cap space this year.
Ellis' contract runs through 2009 with the following compensation:
2005 2250000.00 + 700000.00 bonus prorating + 300000.00 roster bonus
2006 2250000.00 + 700000.00 bonus prorating + 500000.00 roster bonus
2007 2500000.00 + 700000.00 bonus prorating
2008 3325000.00 + 700000.00 bonus prorating
2009 4150000.00 + 700000.00 bonus prorating
As far as a standard for comparison, the franchise amount for DEs in 2005 is $6.666 million, the average of the five highest paid players at the position. Over the next two years, Ellis will average about 50% of that salary.
As best as I can tell, if we were to trade Ellis, $1.4 million would be accelerated into our cap this year, but we'd be free of his $2.55 million this year, making it a net gain of $2.25 million in cap space this year.
Where are they in their careers?
Ellis has seen increasing sack totals every year since 2000. Glover, after averaging 10 sacks a year in his five years with the Saints, has had seasons of 6.5, 5, and 7 sacks in his three years in Dallas, although he did make the Pro Bowl each year. Although only a year older, Glover has two more seasons of wear on his body.
Who could make a better 3-4 end?
Certainly, both are undersized for the position, Ellis at 271 lbs and Glover at 282 lbs. But consider this: Ellis is 6-6, 6-2 -- would Ellis be able to bulk up better into a 3-4 DE? I don't know that, but I do know that Richard Seymour is 6-6, Ty Warren is 6-5, Aaron Smith is 6-5, and Kimo von Oelhoffen is 6-4. Those would be the 3-4 DEs on the Patriots and Steelers, respectively. I don't know much about Ellis' body type or frame, but it appears that between the two, he has the better chance of looking the part of a 3-4 end.
Who would have more trade value?
If the going rate for someone like Darren Howard is a 2nd rounder, and Ellis is not too far behind Howard in productivity, but with a more appealing contract, Ellis might garner a 3rd round selection. If Corey Simon is worth a 2nd and 3rd round pick, the older but more productive Glover should merit at least a 2nd round pick.
So who would we be better off trading?
It’s by no means an open-and-shut case. La’Roi Glover is an excellent player and a Pro Bowler. He has not been surrounded by great talent in his time in Dallas (although neither has Ellis). However, he’s an older player whose best years are arguably behind him with a less cap-friendly contract and less potential to perform in the coming 3-4 transition. Also, he might gain the franchise more compensation in a trade.
Who might trade for Glover?
Perhaps the Giants would offer there 2nd round pick (#43 overall), but we'd rather not face Glover twice a year. Indianapolis? They've been linked to a trade with Glover before, and although I doubt they would offer Wayne and a 1st rounder, they might be inclined to offer their second rounder (#60 overall), or perhaps seek to get value for Wayne, who is in a contract year. We would of course have to extend his contract. Cincinnati also might be interested, with their second rounder #48 overall.
What could we really gain?
Depending on what we plan on doing with our other second rounder One of these second rounders could be used to add a linebacker like Barret Ruud, Kevin Burnett, Michael Boley, Channing Crowder, or Odell Thurman, all of whom would make us more potent in our future full-time 3-4.
Are we better off keeping Glover?
Again, this is not a question I am qualified to answer with the information and knowledge I have. However, the question seems to be one of winning now or later. Glover offers excellent performance and effort in the short term, very likely better than what a second round rookie would give us in year one. However, even in the short term, Glover may not be effective as a 3-4 DE if he is asked to play that position (see Warren Sapp, 2004), and he may not be worth his salary cap number if he is only used as a rotation player. If after our first two picks we can safely decide on a 3-4 alignment for this year and coming years, we may be best-served by moving Glover for a draft choice or a player who could make a more significant contribution to the team in the long run.
Who would fit where in the coming year?
In a 3-4, Ferguson will obviously man the NT position. Spears, Ellis, and Glover would all likely be competing for the two DE spots. In a 4-3, Ware would likely man the RDE spot and Ellis or Spears at the LDE, Spears slides inside to DT. In that case, Spears would take Glover's spot, unless it's purely a pass rush situation in which you’d substitute Spears for Ferguson.
From a depth standpoint, it would be clearly beneficial to have all those players in rotation, keeping everyone fresh. That being said, Ellis will be turn 30 this August, and Glover turns 31 in July. We must examine if keeping this players is in the best interests of the franchise.
What are their contract situations?
Glover's contract runs through 2006 with the following compensation:
2005 3000000.00 + 1200000.00 bonus prorating + 500000.00 roster bonus
2006 4500000.00 + 1200000.00 bonus prorating
As far as a standard for comparison, the franchise amount for DTs in 2005 is $5.134 million, the average of the five highest paid players at the position. Over the next two years, Glover will average about 104% of that salary.
As best as I can tell, if we were to trade Glover, $2.4 mill would be accelerated into our cap this year, but we'd be free of his $3 mill salary this year, making it a net gain of $1.8 mill of cap space this year.
Ellis' contract runs through 2009 with the following compensation:
2005 2250000.00 + 700000.00 bonus prorating + 300000.00 roster bonus
2006 2250000.00 + 700000.00 bonus prorating + 500000.00 roster bonus
2007 2500000.00 + 700000.00 bonus prorating
2008 3325000.00 + 700000.00 bonus prorating
2009 4150000.00 + 700000.00 bonus prorating
As far as a standard for comparison, the franchise amount for DEs in 2005 is $6.666 million, the average of the five highest paid players at the position. Over the next two years, Ellis will average about 50% of that salary.
As best as I can tell, if we were to trade Ellis, $1.4 million would be accelerated into our cap this year, but we'd be free of his $2.55 million this year, making it a net gain of $2.25 million in cap space this year.
Where are they in their careers?
Ellis has seen increasing sack totals every year since 2000. Glover, after averaging 10 sacks a year in his five years with the Saints, has had seasons of 6.5, 5, and 7 sacks in his three years in Dallas, although he did make the Pro Bowl each year. Although only a year older, Glover has two more seasons of wear on his body.
Who could make a better 3-4 end?
Certainly, both are undersized for the position, Ellis at 271 lbs and Glover at 282 lbs. But consider this: Ellis is 6-6, 6-2 -- would Ellis be able to bulk up better into a 3-4 DE? I don't know that, but I do know that Richard Seymour is 6-6, Ty Warren is 6-5, Aaron Smith is 6-5, and Kimo von Oelhoffen is 6-4. Those would be the 3-4 DEs on the Patriots and Steelers, respectively. I don't know much about Ellis' body type or frame, but it appears that between the two, he has the better chance of looking the part of a 3-4 end.
Who would have more trade value?
If the going rate for someone like Darren Howard is a 2nd rounder, and Ellis is not too far behind Howard in productivity, but with a more appealing contract, Ellis might garner a 3rd round selection. If Corey Simon is worth a 2nd and 3rd round pick, the older but more productive Glover should merit at least a 2nd round pick.
So who would we be better off trading?
It’s by no means an open-and-shut case. La’Roi Glover is an excellent player and a Pro Bowler. He has not been surrounded by great talent in his time in Dallas (although neither has Ellis). However, he’s an older player whose best years are arguably behind him with a less cap-friendly contract and less potential to perform in the coming 3-4 transition. Also, he might gain the franchise more compensation in a trade.
Who might trade for Glover?
Perhaps the Giants would offer there 2nd round pick (#43 overall), but we'd rather not face Glover twice a year. Indianapolis? They've been linked to a trade with Glover before, and although I doubt they would offer Wayne and a 1st rounder, they might be inclined to offer their second rounder (#60 overall), or perhaps seek to get value for Wayne, who is in a contract year. We would of course have to extend his contract. Cincinnati also might be interested, with their second rounder #48 overall.
What could we really gain?
Depending on what we plan on doing with our other second rounder One of these second rounders could be used to add a linebacker like Barret Ruud, Kevin Burnett, Michael Boley, Channing Crowder, or Odell Thurman, all of whom would make us more potent in our future full-time 3-4.
Are we better off keeping Glover?
Again, this is not a question I am qualified to answer with the information and knowledge I have. However, the question seems to be one of winning now or later. Glover offers excellent performance and effort in the short term, very likely better than what a second round rookie would give us in year one. However, even in the short term, Glover may not be effective as a 3-4 DE if he is asked to play that position (see Warren Sapp, 2004), and he may not be worth his salary cap number if he is only used as a rotation player. If after our first two picks we can safely decide on a 3-4 alignment for this year and coming years, we may be best-served by moving Glover for a draft choice or a player who could make a more significant contribution to the team in the long run.