RGIII or Andrew Luck

[Sam I Am]

RGIII is flashy as hell, but if I were the Colts I would be damn happy that I took Luck over RGIII right now.

RGIII is playing awesome right now, but running around like he does, he is bound to have lots of injuries.

Andrew Luck, while not as flashy as RGIII, he is getting it done. He has something like 5 game winning drives in the 4th quarter or overtime. The guy can move in the pocket, has a rocket arm, and can thread the needle. Best of all, he isn't a running QB and therefore far safer than any running QB.

[EvilJerry88]

Andrew Luck easily.

[Doomsday101]

I think both are very good felt that way before the draft. If I had to pick one I would go with Luck but RGIII has done a very good job.

[NIBGoldenchild]

RGIII is not a running QB.

[TheCoolFan]

It's not even close IMO. There's a reason why they said Luck was the best QB prospect since Elway. He's big, he's strong, and he's athletic. RG3 is good too but Luck is just incredible.

Plus he is doing all of this without the best running game in the NFL, which is what RG3 has

[Sam I Am]

RGIII is not a running QB.

lol, yeah right. :lmao2: :lmao: He is averaging over 9 rushes a game!

RGII has 100 rushing attempts for 642 yards in 11 games. You have to go back five years to compile 100 rushing attempts for Tony Romo and he is a scrambling QB! :rolleyes:

RGIII is on pace to have more rushing attempts this season than Michael Vick EVER had in a single season by a wide margin. Vick's most rushing attempts in a season was 123. RGIII should break that in his 14th game. He is on pace for 144+ rushing attempts this season.

As I noted in my original post. Rushing QBs = an injured QB. Michael Vick has only played in 16 games during a since once in his entire career. That is one in a ten year career as a starter. Tony Romo has 5 in 8 years.

[BraveHeartFan]

RGIII is playing great right now but I said it from the beginning and it continues to be true now...I'd take Luck over him every single time. It's not even close, IMO.

[DFWJC]

Both have been great.
Certainly RG3 has protected the ball better and has a much better passer rating.

But Luck is maybe the best guy out of the draft since Elway. He wins this race, imo.
The Colts struck gold.

I'm sure both teams are ecstatic.

[Joshmil53]

Can't go wrong with either I guess.

[Hostile]

I've marveled at Luck for years as a PAC-12 homer. I have always thought he was going to win at least 1 Super Bowl. I like Griffin, but I do not think he ever will.

One is a technician, a pocket passer, and once in a decade kind of player.

The other is a weapon, but also the type who takes risks that lead to injuries that shorten his danger life.

I have always and will always prefer the guy who controls the game from the pocket. I squirm every time Romo runs, which is not often. I did when Roger took off too.

[KB1122]

Luck is one of the fastest quarterbacks in the league.

RG3 is better, so far, IMO.

[joseephuss]

As I noted in my original post. Rushing QBs = an injured QB. Michael Vick has only played in 16 games during a since once in his entire career. That is one in a ten year career as a starter. Tony Romo has 5 in 8 years.

Where did you get those numbers? Romo never played QB during his first 3 seasons. He was the older, but that doesn't count when it says he played in all 16 games during the season. He has started at QB all 16 games three times in his career. I would consider 2006 as well since once he was named starter he didn't miss a game in 10 starts., so that makes 4 years. So far he looks like he will make it 5 years if he makes his final 4 starts in this his 10th season, 7th season as a starter.

[SkinsHokieFan]

ESPN Insider had a very interesting take on it today

Delayed gratification hasn't been a part of the Robert Griffin III NFL experience. It was like a Bond flick -- things got crazy before we, the audience, even settled in when RG3 laid waste to the New Orleans Saints in Week 1. Thing is, as we finish Week 13, it still hasn't gotten deliberate. The story arc has remained explosive. So in a season where rookie QBs are a huge draw, even Andrew Luck's remarkable plotline hasn't managed to outshine RG3.

But this could contain fuel for critics who believe RG3 won't age well as an NFL quarterback. Certainly not like Luck. Call it a grumpy assessment, a page from Eeyore's Quarterback Projections, but look close and there are moments, throws and hits that make even his biggest fans wonder. They make people think of other athletically gifted QBs. They make people think, "Enjoy this for what it is" because action flicks like this lack substance. And if the critic wanted to confirm those questions, he'd find some numbers to back him up.

• He'd point to Week 1, when RG3 shredded the Saints. The numbers showed dominance -- 19-26, 320 yards, a 138.9 passer rating -- but a critic would note short pass after short pass, many simply across the line of scrimmage, glorified handoffs. A critic could note that 13 weeks later, 74.6 percent of Griffin's completions this season have been less than 10 yards.

• He'd point to Week 6, when Griffin failed to get out of bounds on a scramble, and picked up a new key stat that isn't in the passer rating formula -- his first NFL concussion. What's athleticism if it gets you more involved with linebackers down the field? Is that sustainable?

• He'd then point to Week 7, when RG3 came back from that concussion and ran a season-high 13 times, including an incredible 76-yard TD run. The critic would say, "Great run, kid, but didn't last week teach you anything?" And that critic would then point out lessons not learned, because headed into this week, RG3 led all QBs with 100 run attempts, a total even the 250-plus-pound Cam Newton can't touch.

Add it up, and the critic builds his case: Great passing totals, but a penchant for thriving on the short stuff; great rushing totals, but already with a concussion in hand; a great knack for making plays, but a clear stubbornness to fall back on his legs in a league that will punish QBs who do.

The critic will thus conclude: Sure, RG3 has been incredible, but should I buy into the future?

In a word: Yes.

That's because such a case against RG3 simply doesn't hold up to a more advanced look at the tape, the numbers and the context of the situation Griffin finds himself in. It's why any critic who would claim RG3 is, say, merely a more evolved Michael Vick, is missing a guy who may become something more like Aaron Rodgers -- and isn't far off that level now.

Start with those short throws.

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

If you claim the Redskins have RG3 pedaling in an offense built around the short throw -- quick slants, quick digs, across-the-formation shots -- then you might as well say Brady is being pushed while utilizing training wheels.

Then consider the "running QB" critique.

So far in 2013, of RG3's league-leading 100 carries, a full 63 of them were designed runs. That means through 11 games, and 367 drop backs, Griffin has actually chosen to scramble only 37 times. According to Pro Football Focus, Griffin is pressured at a somewhat scary rate of 35.1 percent of drop backs thanks to Washington's offensive line. Think of it this way: RG3 has seen pressure at an almost identical rate as Luck, and has scrambled on average about one more time per game. (Again: with 4.41 speed.) Given his ridiculous talents as a runner, the stronger case to be made is that RG3 is actually showing restraint as a runner, not too much confidence in his legs. His Run EPA is lower than even Jay Cutler's.

All of those points make the case that RG3's success does stand up to basic critiques. But there is an even greater aspect working in his favor from a long-range standpoint.

Griffin is, without overstating it, an extraordinarily accurate NFL QB. Not for his age, but for a thrower of the football, period. Evaluators will tell you that accuracy is probably the single greatest indicator of a QB's ability to succeed because it encapsulates everything. It's not just ball placement, it's timing; it's the ability to hit the right route by working through reads, throwing to the open man and, when you do, hitting him in a location that allows him to gain yards after the catch. And to even be consistently accurate, you have to do so many other things well, all starting between the ears. In baseball terms, it's the difference between control and command. Good control means you can throw strikes consistently; good command means you're painting corners and with proper depth on the pitches. RG3 has command.

According to PFF, RG3's accuracy percentage (which accounts for drops, throwaways, spikes, batted passes and passes where the QB is hit while throwing) is at an NFL-leading 80.5 percent. The lead itself is impressive, but to put that number in context, since PFF began tracking the stat in 2008, only Rodgers has a higher rate -- 80.6 percent. In other words, RG3 through 11 games is as accurate a passer as we've seen in the NFL over a five-year period when virtually every passing record has been torched. Among rookies in that time, Ryan has the best full-season mark, at 74.6 percent. How deterministic is that number? This season, the guys directly trailing RG3 are Rodgers, Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Matt Schaub and Brady. Pretty good company.

[+] Enlarge
William Perlman/US Presswire
RG3 runs, but much of it has been by design.
And RG3 isn't just accurate because he's throwing short. On throws of more than 20 yards, his accuracy percentage is 52.2 percent, third highest in the NFL. According to ESPN Stats & Info, he's completed 66.7 percent of those 20-plus-yard throws, second highest in the NFL. And RG3 actually throws downfield plenty next to his peers. On intermediate throws (10-20 yards) he's completed 42 passes, more than Brady or Rodgers. This goes back to last season at Baylor, where coaches Art Briles and Phil Montgomery tinkered with his delivery on the deep ball. His 72.4 percent completion percentage last season wasn't just pure college offensive gimmickry -- his 10.7 yards per attempt led the nation.

The accuracy stands up under another level of scrutiny -- pressure. Against five or more rushers, RG3 has completed 67.4 percent of passes, a higher rate than the impossible-to-blitz Peyton Manning. His accuracy percentage under pressure is an obscene 81.9 percent, an NFL high.

Satisfied? If you aren't, remember that this is all being done within an offense not exactly teeming with weapons. We all saw the Redskins add pass-catching help in free agency, an attempt to ease the transition for their rookie, but, as Bill Barnwell notes, "Despite Washington's best efforts to spend money this offseason and procure RG3 some weapons to throw to, their receiving corps has fallen apart this year." And "If Griffin were really struggling this year, we'd be looking at his receiving corps and saying that he didn't have anything to work with."

Critics can question the sustainability of RG3. They can nod to themselves every time he takes a hit when he should have been sliding. They can rightly say he'll need to learn to get out of harm's way. But restraint is there, and short throws are in every QB plot in this league. Ultimately, pointing to RG3's legs or short throws as a potential problem is like pointing to Greg Maddux's velocity as a problem. In both cases, what each guy does best is really the most important aspect to the position: Each is really, really accurate.

Take away everything else RG3 offers athletically, and he is still an extremely accurate QB. That's a nice fallback plan.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8702241/nfl-why-robert-griffin-iii-become-more-aaron-rodgers

[Risen Star]

I said it before the draft and I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise. I'd trade two Griffins for Luck.

[Shunpike]

I haven't watched a Colts game this season. Just highlights. Luck looks good.

But I have watched Redskins games 3 times and RG3 has been playing great. Even if Luck is said to be better, RG3 should be just a whisker behind.

[burmafrd]

RGIII will get injured. Just a matter of time.

[StylisticS]

RG3 is playing great. But Luck is the better qb before and after the draft. Credit to Briles for coaching up RG3 though.

[Risen Star]

I haven't watched a Colts game this season. Just highlights. Luck looks good.

But I have watched Redskins games 3 times and RG3 has been playing great. Even if Luck is said to be better, RG3 should be just a whisker behind.

I don't think there's any comparison. It's Peyton Manning vs. Michael Vick.

[dexternjack]

Like a lot have said, RGIII might come out of the gates faster but the horse to bet on is Luck in the long run.

We shall see how Robert (Cam) fares next season when defenses have time to figure him out.

[Risen Star]

Like a lot have said, RGIII might come out of the gates faster but the horse to bet on is Luck in the long run.

We shall see how Robert (Cam) fares next season when defenses have time to figure him out.

He hasn't even come out of the gate faster. Luck's a better QB today.

[CopenhagenCowboy]

Luck has been ridiculously good. Easy choice.

[dexternjack]

He hasn't even come out of the gate faster. Luck's a better QB today.
I never said he did come out faster (he didn't come out slow though), just what some though was going to happen.

Luck is the better QB today, but RGIII isn't that far behind but that gap will widen soon.

[Romo 2 Austin]

Luck. Both are already top 10 in the league.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I never said he did come out faster (he didn't come out slow though), just what some though was going to happen.

Luck is the better QB today, but RGIII isn't that far behind but that gap will widen soon.

I don't see how except in terms of wins and that is a result of the Colts easy schedule.

Luck has thrown 4 times the INT's that RG3 has. Not 4 more. 4 TIMES as many

As my article posted above, statistically its not even close. RG3 has been dominant

Luck

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14874/andrew-luck

SEASON TEAM GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT
2012
IND
12 279 503 55.5 3,596 7.15 17 60 16 9 71.6 76.1

RG3

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14875/robert-griffin-iii

SEASON TEAM GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT
2012


WSH
11 205 304 67.4 2,497 8.21 16 88 4 2 72.1 104.6


Give me the more accurate QB who takes care of the ball

According to PFF, RG3's accuracy percentage (which accounts for drops, throwaways, spikes, batted passes and passes where the QB is hit while throwing) is at an NFL-leading 80.5 percent. The lead itself is impressive, but to put that number in context, since PFF began tracking the stat in 2008, only Rodgers has a higher rate -- 80.6 percent. In other words, RG3 through 11 games is as accurate a passer as we've seen in the NFL over a five-year period when virtually every passing record has been torched.

[Risen Star]

Luck's running a pro style, sophisticated offense.

Griffin's running a dumbed down gimmick offense that can't be sustained long term.

Luck's the real deal. Griffin is hype. Great athlete, not a great pro QB. Now maybe he develops over time but until I see that I chalk him up as Michael Vick the sequel.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Luck's running a pro style, sophisticated offense.

Griffin's running a dumbed down gimmick offense that can't be sustained long term.

Luck's the real deal. Griffin is hype. Great athlete, not a great pro QB. Now maybe he develops over time but until I see that I chalk him up as Michael Vick the sequel.

Luck is outstanding, I love the kid. Not a knock on him, but RG3 has been flat out better.

A dumb offense doesn't do what this offense has done for 11 weeks which is balanced plays, big plays and time of possesion.

Luck has also played some incredibly bad teams.

Again, the "dumb offense" remakrs are silly to me because it is essentially the same offense that Tom Brady runs with a ZBS element

RG3's skillset is outstanding. His accuracy is uncanny. To not utilize his athletic ability would be negligent of the Redskins coaching staff.

[dexternjack]

I don't see how except in terms of wins and that is a result of the Colts easy schedule.

Luck has thrown 4 times the INT's that RG3 has. Not 4 more. 4 TIMES as many

As my article posted above, statistically its not even close. RG3 has been dominant

Both run different offenses and I think Luck is asked to do more than RGIII with a lot less talented team around him in Indy. Luck does have over 1,000 more yds than RGIII (tonight's game withstanding).

Romo has 15 ints, hope you don't think RGIII is better than him at this point too because of that stat.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Both run different offenses and I think Luck is asked to do more than RGIII with a lot less talented team around him in Indy. Luck does have over 1,000 more yds than RGIII (tonight's game withstanding).

Romo has 15 ints, hope you don't think RGIII is better than him at this point too because of that stat.

Yea, at this point I think RG3 has lapped Romo. If you asked me to trade RG3 for Romo straight up I would laugh in your face. I am not sure how you can Luck is asked to do more then RG3. Are you in coaches meetings? Do you know the calls the Colts are making? A comment like that is silly.

INT's matter. Protecting the football matters as a QB. Or else you end up being Rex Grossman

[Risen Star]

Luck is outstanding, I love the kid. Not a knock on him, but RG3 has been flat out better.

A dumb offense doesn't do what this offense has done for 11 weeks which is balanced plays, big plays and time of possesion.

Luck has also played some incredibly bad teams.

Again, the "dumb offense" remakrs are silly to me because it is essentially the same offense that Tom Brady runs with a ZBS element

RG3's skillset is outstanding. His accuracy is uncanny. To not utilize his athletic ability would be negligent of the Redskins coaching staff.

Sure you prefer Griffin. He's a Redskin. This isn't news.

Give me Luck any day. I don't even think it's close. I wouldn't want Griffin as my franchise QB. I haven't yet seen that kind of QB win. I have seen a laundry list of Lucks win.

There's a reason why there was no question whatsoever who the first overall pick was going to be in April.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Sure you prefer Griffin. He's a Redskin. This isn't news.

Give me Luck any day. I don't even think it's close. I wouldn't want Griffin as my franchise QB. I haven't yet seen that kind of QB win. I have seen a laundry list of Lucks win.

There's a reason why there was no question whatsoever who the first overall pick was going to be in April.

I love Andrew Luck also. Give me either. I saw Luck play live in the Orange Bowl. He is going to be a star.

You still haven't given me any reason besides the "college offense" garbage which you quite honestly have no clue about or else you'd be in the NFL and not debating me on a message board. We have no idea what calls the Colts make or how they have tailored that offense.

You want me to take a guy who has thrown 4 times the INTs my guy has and has been less accurate? Please.

You want to give me the short ball argument? Apply it to Manning and Brady

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

[Risen Star]

I love Andrew Luck also. Give me either. I saw Luck play live in the Orange Bowl. He is going to be a star.

You still haven't given me any reason besides the "college offense" garbage which you quite honestly have no clue about or else you'd be in the NFL and not debating me on a message board

I told you the reason. You just won't accept it. Andrew Luck is a vastly superior pro QB. He has all the skill set to excel running a pro offense. Robert Griffin is an athlete running a college style offense and making some highlight plays.

Luck is Peyton Manning. Griffin is Michael Vick. That's just the way I see it.

[dexternjack]

Yea, at this point I think RG3 has lapped Romo. If you asked me to trade RG3 for Romo straight up I would laugh in your face. I am not sure how you can Luck is asked to do more then RG3. Are you in coaches meetings? Do you know the calls the Colts are making? A comment like that is silly.

INT's matter. Protecting the football matters as a QB. Or else you end up being Rex Grossman

It is pretty obvious to the naked eye Luck's offense is more complex. I don't need 20 years in coaching to see that.

If you really believe RGIII is better than Romo, then you have no place to question my opinions. The ONLY reason you or most Redskin fans would turn that trade down is because of age, there are no other reasons to do so.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I told you the reason. You just won't accept it. Andrew Luck is a vastly superior pro QB. He has all the skill set to excel running a pro offense. Robert Griffin is an athlete running a college style offense and making some highlight plays.

Luck is Peyton Manning. Griffin is Michael Vick. That's just the way I see it.

That is false. Thats my point. Vick has nowhere near the accuracy of RG3. Its not even worth discussing that.

RG3 can make all the throws from the pocket. The fact that he has athletic ability makes him that much more dangerous.

You haven't demonstrated to me through any objective measure that Luck is vastly superior. I have demonstrated through objectives measures how superior RG3 has been thus far

[SkinsHokieFan]

It is pretty obvious to the naked eye Luck's offense is more complex. I don't need 20 years in coaching to see that.

If you really believe RGIII is better than Romo, then you have no place to question my opinions. The ONLY reason you or most Redskin fans would turn that trade down is because of age, there are no other reasons to do so.

Its not even a question to me anymore about RG3 vs Romo, age wise or other wise.

RG3 has a better more accurate arm and protects the football better. Same size, better athletic ability.

You remember that Aldrick Robinson TD on thanksgiving? Thats the result of a complex offense which again you have no way knowing unless you are in the business

[Risen Star]

That is false. Thats my point. Vick has nowhere near the accuracy of RG3. Its not even worth discussing that.

RG3 can make all the throws from the pocket. The fact that he has athletic ability makes him that much more dangerous.

You haven't demonstrated to me through any objective measure that Luck is vastly superior. I have demonstrated through objectives measures how superior RG3 has been thus far

You haven't demonstrated anything. You just think you have. You regurgitated stats. Yet completely ignored the offenses they run. The high completion percentage doesn't impress me with the easy throws he's asked to make. Making stick throws down the field between two defenders like Luck has to do, does. That's not to say Griffin hasn't made those throws, but that's not the design of his offense like it is with Luck.

Luck is a pro QB playing a pro offense that can and will be sustained going forward. He'll just get better and better from here.

Griffin is an athlete playing a college gimmick offense by a head coach that knows he needs to spoon feed him slowly to avoid a debacle. That can not be sustained. He's going to have to develop into a big boy pro QB down the road or he'll be another Michael Vick. Nice highlights. Can't win with him.

Again, there is a reason why Luck was the hands down no brainer 1st overall draft pick and if there was a do-over, no GM in football wouldn't make the same pick.

He's just a superior player than your QB. Get over it.

[Risen Star]

It is pretty obvious to the naked eye Luck's offense is more complex. I don't need 20 years in coaching to see that.

If you really believe RGIII is better than Romo, then you have no place to question my opinions. The ONLY reason you or most Redskin fans would turn that trade down is because of age, there are no other reasons to do so.

Pick any NFL writer you want. Ask him about the offenses Luck and Griffin run and the differences between the two. You'll get the truth.

You're dealing with a Redskins fan desperately trying to get love for his hyped phenom. I think the Colts fans are quite content just having the actual better QB.

You will look back at these conversations in 10 years and laugh at how ridiculous it was.

[SkinsHokieFan]

You haven't demonstrated anything. You just think you have. You regurgitated stats. Yet completely ignored the offenses they run. The high completion percentage doesn't impress me with the easy throws he's asked to make. Making stick throws down the field between two defenders like Luck has to do, does. That's not to say Griffin hasn't made those throws, but that's not the design of his offense like it is with Luck.

As are Manning and Brady and Flacco and Ryan. You seem to ignore this

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

Luck is a pro QB playing a pro offense that can and will be sustained going forward. He'll just get better and better from here.

Brady is running spread pass concepts at this point. 3-4 wide, short wide and pistol concepts.

Griffin is an athlete playing a college gimmick offense by a head coach that knows he needs to spoon feed him slowly to avoid a debacle. That can not be sustained. He's going to have to develop into a big boy pro QB down the road or he'll be another Michael Vick. Nice highlights. Can't win with him.

False. RG3 has far superior passing skills then Vick. That comparison is silly.



He's just a superior player than your QB. Get over it.

Terrible argument. You still haven't demonstrated it to any degree whatsoever besides the "pro style offense" canard which has led to 4 times as INTs against an easier schedule.

[dexternjack]

Pick any NFL writer you want. Ask him about the offenses Luck and Griffin run and the differences between the two. You'll get the truth.

You're dealing with a Redskins fan desperately trying to get love for his hyped phenom. I think the Colts fans are quite content just having the actual better QB.

You will look back at these conversations in 10 years and laugh at how ridiculous it was.
Yea, I am done arguing. No reason to raise the BP tonight :)

[Risen Star]

Yea, I am done arguing. No reason to raise the BP tonight :)

Just talking with them makes me want to gag.

Sit tight. Enjoy their frustrations over the years when he doesn't amount to the hype.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Pick any NFL writer you want. Ask him about the offenses Luck and Griffin run and the differences between the two. You'll get the truth.

You're dealing with a Redskins fan desperately trying to get love for his hyped phenom. I think the Colts fans are quite content just having the actual better QB.

You will look back at these conversations in 10 years and laugh at how ridiculous it was.

I certainly will. Luck will be great. RG3 a generational superstar.

Please find me any article right now that proves what you are stating. I have an article which you ignore because it doesn't fit your narrative. Certainly you would point to something in the PFF article that is wrong. But you can't because the facts don't fit your narrative. Your opinion is contrary to fact, which is why you go with the "pro style offense canard" which you can't even prove objectively. I am open to discussion about the offenses.

I am sure your level of understanding is far superior you would refute this

That's because such a case against RG3 simply doesn't hold up to a more advanced look at the tape, the numbers and the context of the situation Griffin finds himself in. It's why any critic who would claim RG3 is, say, merely a more evolved Michael Vick, is missing a guy who may become something more like Aaron Rodgers -- and isn't far off that level now.

Start with those short throws.

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

If you claim the Redskins have RG3 pedaling in an offense built around the short throw -- quick slants, quick digs, across-the-formation shots -- then you might as well say Brady is being pushed while utilizing training wheels.


The problem is you can't because you don't know what you are talking about. You seem to equate RG3 to Vick which demonstrates your lack of understanding of the QB position. If you can't provide some objective facts, go sit in the corner and come back when you have big boy stuff. I'll watch RG3 torch your secondary for the next 15 years

[rdskn4eva]

I told you the reason. You just won't accept it. Andrew Luck is a vastly superior pro QB. He has all the skill set to excel running a pro offense. Robert Griffin is an athlete running a college style offense and making some highlight plays.

Luck is Peyton Manning. Griffin is Michael Vick. That's just the way I see it.

I didnt realize that Vick was an accurate passer. Where have I've been?

[Chocolate Lab]

Yeah, the Vick-to-RG3 comparisons are absurd. They're both black and fast, and that's about as far as it goes. RG3 is a much better passer and his mind and work ethic are 1000x better.

[NIBGoldenchild]

I told you the reason. You just won't accept it. Andrew Luck is a vastly superior pro QB. He has all the skill set to excel running a pro offense. Robert Griffin is an athlete running a college style offense and making some highlight plays.

Luck is Peyton Manning. Griffin is Michael Vick. That's just the way I see it.

That's just the way it is....in your mind, which isn't reality.

I've watched Luck's games, not all, but enough, have you? He's thrown some great clutch passes, and some horrible interceptions. He's thrown horrible passes that I've never seen Griffin throw. I have confidence he'll correct that in time, but right now Griffin protects that ball better than Luck and scores more than Luck.

Is it possible you prefer Luck over Griffin because you don't have to deal with Luck twice a year?

[IAmLegend]

Romo! :D

[SkinsHokieFan]

Yeah, the Vick-to-RG3 comparisons are absurd. They're both black and fast, and that's about as far as it goes. RG3 is a much better passer and his mind and work ethic are 1000x better.

Its a flat out lazy and racist comparison. Its that simple

[nake]

Andrew Luck, and it was an easy decision. QB's like Luck dominate and win championships. QB's like RGIII are exciting and great fun to watch, but in the final analysis it is their passing ability that will determine their level of success, IMO.

[NIBGoldenchild]

Griffin is an athlete playing a college gimmick offense by a head coach that knows he needs to spoon feed him slowly to avoid a debacle.

You're such a hater, That is pure speculation. So I take it you were there after they drafted Griffin, showed him last year's offense, and realized he couldn't what...comprehend it? Please, tell us more of your fairytales.

[Chocolate Lab]

Its a flat out lazy and racist comparison. Its that simple

The guy RG3 really reminds me of is Steve Young. Only Griffin probably has even better leadership qualities.

[NIBGoldenchild]

I certainly will. Luck will be great. RG3 a generational superstar.

Please find me any article right now that proves what you are stating. I have an article which you ignore because it doesn't fit your narrative. Certainly you would point to something in the PFF article that is wrong. But you can't because the facts don't fit your narrative. Your opinion is contrary to fact, which is why you go with the "pro style offense canard" which you can't even prove objectively. I am open to discussion about the offenses.

I am sure your level of understanding is far superior you would refute this




The problem is you can't because you don't know what you are talking about. You seem to equate RG3 to Vick which demonstrates your lack of understanding of the QB position. If you can't provide some objective facts, go sit in the corner and come back when you have big boy stuff. I'll watch RG3 torch your secondary for the next 15 years

SkinsHokiefan,

He can't offer facts when he's made up everything he's stated so far. The only facts he has offered is that Michael Vick has not been a good QB. Which doesn't bother me, Griffin and Vick are two different people. Vick isn't accurate, Vick can't read defenses, Vick folds under pressure, Vick turns the ball over constantly. Aside from them being two blacks guys who can run fast, there are no similarities for anyone not looking through blue and silver glasses

[nake]

The guy RG3 really reminds me of is Steve Young. Only Griffin probably has even better leadership qualities.

I really hope that turns out not to be true. Another Vince would be an order of magnitude better for the Cowboys than another Steve.

[rdskn4eva]

RG3 is a pocket passer at heart. There are many times when he can just take off and run, but he hangs in the pocket looking to pass.

[NIBGoldenchild]

I find it interesting that when Griffin's stats are compared to Luck's, pro-Luck arguments immediately mention how he'll get better in time and he'll be an all-pro for the next decade. Which I don't disagree with at all, yet these same "objective" people offer zero consideration for Griffin getting better with experience. Instead of suggesting he could possibly develop like Steve Young, we get him becoming punch drunk like Vick.

I find it very hard to believe that a guy with Griffin's work ethic, won't be able to stay ahead of the game...adapt, adjust and improve over the offseason as defensive coordinators formulate schemes to counter the more successful plays of this offense.

[BraveHeartFan]

RGIII is playing great right now and I don't know if he will play like that for good or not, time will tell there for sure, but I believe Luck is simply the better QB.


Now and through the entire future.

[WVSkinsfan]

Guys I have been wondering the whole season not about who is better but what if Luck had the skins schedule and griffen had the colts schedule.Im sure you will agree with me that the nfc east is alot better devision than the afc south right?

Luck is a good qb right now and will probably be great but thats yet to be determined.The oponents that luck has to face this year are not that good and all the teams in his division is absolutely terrible but one.So with his easy schedule every year he will definetly be better. Now if you put luck the skins schedule this year with all the nfc teams twice and nfc south I honestly don't know if he would have griffens numbers right now 17 tds and 4 ints.Now maybe he would but what im trying to say is that you will never find out what the true answer to this question is on this topic.two different qbs and two different roads with griffins road being alot tougher and rougher.thats just my opinion

[BAZ]

RG3 a generational superstar.

Oh settle down you child.

[burmafrd]

it is hilarious to read Skins fans posts; their idea of reality really does belong in Washington

[Aikbach]

They'll both be the two best quarterbacks in football for the next six or seven years, they're different in style, but anyone attempting to pretend rg3 is Vick is offensively ignorant, displaying more than a football prejudice but character deficiency in their self as well, shame on the parties in question and we know who they are.

The steve young comparison is most accurate, I don't know if either of these guys will ever win a super bowl though, the excellence of rg3 isnt going to receive much help in the draft in the coming years and so despite his personal brilliance the team might experience overall arrested development.

The colts have better odds of improving in the draft quicker but the afc is once more the lesser conference and luck could well end up like a Jim Kelly or dan Marino , a great one that never won it all

[CATCH17]

You can't go wrong but if I had to pick I would go with RG3.

He is a special special player. A once in a lifetime player. He's the best QB that happens to be a crazy athlete that i've ever seen.

[Cythim]

With four games to go last year the Skins were 4-8, now they are 6-6. The Colts were 0-12 and now they are 8-4. Washington's total offense has risen from 336 ypg to 383 ypg while Indy's has gone from 286 ypg to 392 ypg.

While I think both a great players, Luck has brought his team back from the bowels of the NFL in just one year to make them a playoff competitor. Luck means more to his team than RG3 does.

[BAZ]

They'll both be the two best quarterbacks in football for the next six or seven years,

Are Brees, Manning x2, Brady, and Rodgers just retiring at the end of the season?

[Sam I Am]

I only watched half of last nights game. I saw RGIII get pounded into the turf at least 5 times. How many times did that happen after the first half?

If that continues every game, that kid isn't going to last 2 years in this league.

[joseephuss]

Any comparisons to Michael Vick are just stupid. Vick has only once in his career completed over 60% of his passes. The guys just isn't a good passer and wasn't in college. It is very belittling to any QB to get compared to Vick.

I think both Luck and Griffin will be fine QBs for a long time. Both still have room to improve. I give the edge to Luck only because he has less to learn. He has to essentially fine tune his game because he has grown up in a pro-style system. Griffin has a lot more to learn and I think he is very capable of doing so.

I can't predict which one will win Superbowls. That is just too difficult. No one would have predicted that Eli would have won more than Peyton.

[Sam I Am]

Any comparisons to Michael Vick are just stupid. Vick has only once in his career completed over 60% of his passes. The guys just isn't a good passer and wasn't in college. It is very belittling to any QB to get compared to Vick.

I think both Luck and Griffin will be fine QBs for a long time. Both still have room to improve. I give the edge to Luck only because he has less to learn. He has to essentially fine tune his game because he has grown up in a pro-style system. Griffin has a lot more to learn and I think he is very capable of doing so.

I can't predict which one will win Superbowls. That is just too difficult. No one would have predicted that Eli would have won more than Peyton.

Vick and RGIII are very similar except for completion percentage. Both are running QBs, both have very strong arms.

Besides that, one is a whiny ***** dog killer, and the other is a classy professional. Without question RGIII is the better QB between the two.

As for Superbowls. You can never predict that. Dan Marino has zero and there are many who have Superbowls that just weren't that great of QBs. Football is a team game and a QB alone won't win you a Superbowl. Besides, sometimes there is just a better team or a hotter team.

[InmanRoshi]

I couldn't watch the game last night, so I logged into NFL.com this morning and see "RG3 LEADZ TEH 4TH QUARTERZ GAME WINNING DRIVEZZ!!!!1111" splashed all over the homepage.

Then I look in the box score and the "4th quarter game winning drive" came with 11 minutes left to play in the game, and he had like 190 yards throwing on the night.

Wow.

[jnday]

I would take Luck all day, every day. RG3 will end up with injury problems due to fragile build. It is just a matter of time. Fans forget just how good of an athlete that Luck actually is. He is also a big QB. I would have traded away a ton of picks for Luck and never thought twice about it. I can't say the same for RG3. When his gimmick offense is exposed, RG3 will struggle, much.like Cam Newton. That is not a problem for Luck.

[theebs]

Luck.

and its not close.

[Doomsday101]

Any comparisons to Michael Vick are just stupid. Vick has only once in his career completed over 60% of his passes. The guys just isn't a good passer and wasn't in college. It is very belittling to any QB to get compared to Vick.

I think both Luck and Griffin will be fine QBs for a long time. Both still have room to improve. I give the edge to Luck only because he has less to learn. He has to essentially fine tune his game because he has grown up in a pro-style system. Griffin has a lot more to learn and I think he is very capable of doing so.

I can't predict which one will win Superbowls. That is just too difficult. No one would have predicted that Eli would have won more than Peyton.

I agree, I see a lot more talent in RGIII rookie year than Vick at any time in his career. He passes are very sharpe and on the money, he shows nice touch on the short balls and keeps his eyes down field instead of looking to run 1st.

I will say RGIII better learn how to protect himself better because these big hits he has taken this year will catch up to him quickly.

[SkinsFan28]

I agree, I see a lot more talent in RGIII rookie year than Vick at any time in his career. He passes are very sharpe and on the money, he shows nice touch on the short balls and keeps his eyes down field instead of looking to run 1st.

I will say RGIII better learn how to protect himself better because these big hits he has taken this year will catch up to him quickly.

Ultimately, it will be on Griffin to best protect himself. The offense will, as long as Shanahan is coaching, use a ZBS scheme, meaning lighter faster OL. I don't think MS is a fan of Griffin taking off, especially when it's not a designed play. IF you listen to his press conference and you will see that. On designed runs, the lanes to get out of bounds or protect him are there, and since his concussion, he has done a lot better job of being aware. But when he goes into the Make a play mindset - that is when you see him hurdle a defensive player, or get his jersey pulled backwards.

I think it's a part of his game he will have to learn to control, but just as Luck will grow and get better, I don't see any reason to think Griffin won't either.

[Doomsday101]

Ultimately, it will be on Griffin to best protect himself. The offense will, as long as Shanahan is coaching, use a ZBS scheme, meaning lighter faster OL. I don't think MS is a fan of Griffin taking off, especially when it's not a designed play. IF you listen to his press conference and you will see that. On designed runs, the lanes to get out of bounds or protect him are there, and since his concussion, he has done a lot better job of being aware. But when he goes into the Make a play mindset - that is when you see him hurdle a defensive player, or get his jersey pulled backwards.

I think it's a part of his game he will have to learn to control, but just as Luck will grow and get better, I don't see any reason to think Griffin won't either.

I don't disagree but I think his natural instinct is to go for it, hell he did it last night vs NY were he took a big hit on the sideline after taking off on the run. I think it is great to use that talent but he needs to get out of bounds or slide much quicker than he does. He may have to learn the hard way but if he continues as is he will find out the meaning of the NFL (Not For Long)

Luck on the other hand has good mobility but he is still more the prototypical QB. I think both are very good young QB’s but if I had to pick one over the other I take Luck and no it has nothing to do with RGIII playing for Washington, I said the same thing prior to the draft.

[SkinsHokieFan]

The injury canard is stupid also.

Tom Brady lost a season of his career from the pocket. Carson Palmer has never been the same since the Steelers destroyed his knee in 2005 from the pocket. Stafford spent the first 2 years of his career dealing with injuries from the pocket.

Its football. If he gets injured, he gets injured. So far thankfully he has only missed a half

[Doomsday101]

The injury canard is stupid also.

Tom Brady lost a season of his career from the pocket. Carson Palmer has never been the same since the Steelers destroyed his knee in 2005 from the pocket. Stafford spent the first 2 years of his career dealing with injuries from the pocket.

Its football. If he gets injured, he gets injured. So far thankfully he has only missed a half

Sure injuries happen and can at any time but QB that tend to run and not slide or get out of bounds will not last long. I like RGIII followed him at Baylor but this is not college and if he hopes to have a long career then he best learn to do a better job of protecting himself.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Sure injuries happen and can at any time but QB that tend to run and not slide or get out of bounds will not last long. I like RGIII followed him at Baylor but this is not college and if he hopes to have a long career then he best learn to do a better job of protecting himself.

If thats the worst people can say right now, I'll take it. He has protected himself very well since the ATL game, in particular with getting out of bounds.

His ability to play QB at a very high level as a rookie with the amount of injuries the team has dealt with has been fantastic. His skillset is elite in every regard.

Just wait until the passing tree actually opens up. It'll look like the 2nd quarter of Thanksgiving every week ;)

[Doomsday101]

If thats the worst people can say right now, I'll take it. He has protected himself very well since the ATL game, in particular with getting out of bounds.

His ability to play QB at a very high level as a rookie with the amount of injuries the team has dealt with has been fantastic. His skillset is elite in every regard.

Just wait until the passing tree actually opens up. It'll look like the 2nd quarter of Thanksgiving every week ;)

No he hasn't he took a big shot down the sideline last night vs NY that he did not need to take, that is not protecting yourself. I think he has been great again I like the kid I watched him at Baylor and was really impressed and enjoyed watching him but this is not college and taking on DB and LB in the NFL is going to end a career quicker than need be. These boys do not mess around in the NFL.
So I'm not taking a shot at RGIII I'm only telling it like it is.

[NIBGoldenchild]

An article from espn insider on RGIII.


Delayed gratification hasn't been a part of the Robert Griffin III NFL experience. It was like a Bond flick -- things got crazy before we, the audience, even settled in when RG3 laid waste to the New Orleans Saints in Week 1. Thing is, as we finish Week 13, it still hasn't gotten deliberate. The story arc has remained explosive. So in a season where rookie QBs are a huge draw, even Andrew Luck's remarkable plotline hasn't managed to outshine RG3.

But this could contain fuel for critics who believe RG3 won't age well as an NFL quarterback. Certainly not like Luck. Call it a grumpy assessment, a page from Eeyore's Quarterback Projections, but look close and there are moments, throws and hits that make even his biggest fans wonder. They make people think of other athletically gifted QBs. They make people think, "Enjoy this for what it is" because action flicks like this lack substance. And if the critic wanted to confirm those questions, he'd find some numbers to back him up.


http://insider.espn.....-aaron-rodgers

[SkinsandTerps]

NIB, they won't hear you, listen, or read.

They have their opinions...if you watch the games you don't even need to look at stats. The kid is already one of the best in the game right now.

Among the elite it seems.
Luck will be there soon also.

[Doomsday101]

NIB, they won't hear you, listen, or read.

They have their opinions...if you watch the games you don't even need to look at stats. The kid is already one of the best in the game right now.

Among the elite it seems.
Luck will be there soon also.

I think both are very good, hell Luck took over for a team that won 2 games last year and to help them get to the post season is a hell of a feat. RGIII is also very good. To claim RGIII as elite and Luck will soon be there? That is funny and very humoristic of you.

I would not consider either guy elite just very good young QB. Cam was being called these things last year yet Cam does not look as good as last year. Elite is not a 1 year proposition it is the ability to consistently produces year in and year out.

[InmanRoshi]

Leading a team to 6-6 on a night where you had 160 yards passing now puts you in the "elite" category?

Wow, the bar for "elite" has been dropped pretty low, it seems.

[NIBGoldenchild]

Leading a team to 6-6 on a night where you had 160 yards passing now puts you in the "elite" category?

Wow, the bar for "elite" has been dropped pretty low, it seems.

I think this may have something to do with it:



STATS PCT YDS AVG TD INT RAT
2012 Season 67.1 2660 8.2 17 4 104.4

[SkinsandTerps]

I think both are very good, hell Luck took over for a team that won 2 games last year and to help them get to the post season is a hell of a feat. RGIII is also very good. To claim RGIII as elite and Luck will soon be there? That is funny and very humoristic of you.

I would not consider either guy elite just very good young QB. Cam was being called these things last year yet Cam does not look as good as last year. Elite is not a 1 year proposition it is the ability to consistently produces year in and year out.

I said among the elite. He is. That is the reason for the hype. The kid can flat out play.

Luck is a good QB and getting better it seems...but he will also be among the elite soon. It's not a slight towards him.

You watch the games and you see how they play. Hell even Wilson is playing serious ball right now.

[InmanRoshi]

I think this may have something to do with it:



STATS PCT YDS AVG TD INT RAT
2012 Season 67.1 2660 8.2 17 4 104.4

I remember when most QBs could never be considered "elite" until he won Superbowl(s), but now RG3 gets to be elite for taking a team to .500 and throwing some amazing bubble screens.

[CATCH17]

I think both are very good, hell Luck took over for a team that won 2 games last year and to help them get to the post season is a hell of a feat. RGIII is also very good. To claim RGIII as elite and Luck will soon be there? That is funny and very humoristic of you.

I would not consider either guy elite just very good young QB. Cam was being called these things last year yet Cam does not look as good as last year. Elite is not a 1 year proposition it is the ability to consistently produces year in and year out.

Cams problem is he locks onto Steve Smith every single play instead of just reading the defense.

Luck and RG3 do not have that problem at all. Both of those guys can make timing passes.

I was very impressed with RG3's ability to throw the ball to the spot where the receiver was supposed to be before the receiver even broke out of his route.

Washington's offense looks very well coached. Players know where to be.

I wish Kyle Shannahan was running our offense.


Can you imagine RG3 playing for this team? Would Garrett adjust to his play style? I doubt it because he's never really adjusted to Romo's playstyle.

Romo would be sick in Shannahans system and our Oline would be better too.

[NIBGoldenchild]

I remember when most QBs could never be considered "elite" until he won Superbowl(s), but now RG3 gets to be elite for taking a team to .500 and throwing some amazing bubble screens.

Bubble screens? :confused: :laugh2:

Come on man, how many times is that play called per game? Once, twice at the most.

[Doomsday101]

Cams problem is he locks onto Steve Smith every single play instead of just reading the defense.

Luck and RG3 do not have that problem at all. Both of those guys can make timing passes.

Fine but I don't look at any rookie as among the elite, Elite is not a one year deal. Both RGIII and Luck may end up being the best QB's of all time I don't know time will tell. I think highly of both but greatness if proven over the course of time.

[SkinsFan28]

I don't disagree but I think his natural instinct is to go for it, hell he did it last night vs NY were he took a big hit on the sideline after taking off on the run. I think it is great to use that talent but he needs to get out of bounds or slide much quicker than he does. He may have to learn the hard way but if he continues as is he will find out the meaning of the NFL (Not For Long)

Luck on the other hand has good mobility but he is still more the prototypical QB. I think both are very good young QB’s but if I had to pick one over the other I take Luck and no it has nothing to do with RGIII playing for Washington, I said the same thing prior to the draft.
I absolutely agree that it is his nature, and that especially early on, he puts himself at risk. I believe, though he will learn it quickly.

Griffin was asked about the sideline play in the last quarter, and his response was honest, and clearly shows a learning curve. He said that he was making a beeline for the sideline when he remembered how clock stoppage in the NFL works he tried to pull up and stay in bounds. That shows me two things; he knows he should be trying to get out of bounds at the best possible angle, and that he is thinking about the game situation and learning.

In terms of the out of bounds, you really do see that he has learned that lesson, and most of the time is quick enough to get out of bounds without a hit.

In terms of game situation, he will only get better as he is put in more and more situations. Of course if a big play is needed his nature will always push him in that direction, but so does Romo's and every other big league qb. The key is not doing it in every game, or in less than game critical situations.

[Sam I Am]

Cams problem is he locks onto Steve Smith every single play instead of just reading the defense.

Luck and RG3 do not have that problem at all. Both of those guys can make timing passes.

I never had confidence in Cam Newton being a good QB in the NFL.

If you could guarantee RG3 has a long and relatively healthy career, I would take either Luck or RG3.

My problem is, running QB are a whole lot more likely to get hurt and the fact that every time I watch a Redskin game with RG3, I see him get absolutely crushed several times during a game. I only watched the first half of the Monday night game, but I saw at least 5-6 times was absolutely bashed into the turf. He just won't last with that happening all the time.

[NIBGoldenchild]

I wish Kyle Shannahan was running our offense.



You can have him, IMO. His play calling in the redzone and 3rd downs make me wish I had hair to pull out.

[InmanRoshi]

Bubble screens? :confused: :laugh2:

Come on man, how many times is that play called per game? Once, twice at the most.

That's not an insignificant number when your offense is 30th in the league in passing attempts.

And my point still stands ... Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, Tony Romo, Phillip Rivers, Joe Flacco can never be considered "elite" until they win Superbowls no matter what kind of numbers they put up or how many regular season games they win. RG3 automatically gets put into the "elite" category for getting a team to 6-6 in December? Must be nice to have that much relentless media hype behind you that you get a double standard.

[SkinsFan28]

That's not an insignificant number when your offense is 30th in the league in passing attempts.

And my point still stands ... Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, Tony Romo, Phillip Rivers can never be considered "elite" until they win Superbowls. RG3 automatically gets put into the "elite" category for getting a team to 6-6 in December? Must be nice to have that much relentless media hype behind you that you get a double standard.

The quote was among the elite, and I think he was referencing the fact that for this season, Griffins passer rating, completion percentage (at every spot on the field if you sort by splits), td/int ratio, and even rushing, puts him among the top 5 in every category.

As for bubble screens, you do understand that those also play a role in opening interior and stretch run plays, forcing defenses to defend the whole width of the field from the point of the snap. Something that is a staple of Shanahan style offenses.

[Lodeus]

ESPN is pretty much saying RGIII is the best thing to ever happen to football so Id take him... Luck is a bum.

[SkinsHokieFan]

That's not an insignificant number when your offense is 30th in the league in passing attempts.

And my point still stands ... Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, Tony Romo, Phillip Rivers, Joe Flacco can never be considered "elite" until they win Superbowls no matter what kind of numbers they put up or how many regular season games they win. RG3 automatically gets put into the "elite" category for getting a team to 6-6 in December? Must be nice to have that much relentless media hype behind you that you get a double standard.

The short passing "critique" is absurd. I have posted about it 4 times in this thread

Start with those short throws.

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

If you claim the Redskins have RG3 pedaling in an offense built around the short throw -- quick slants, quick digs, across-the-formation shots -- then you might as well say Brady is being pushed while utilizing training wheels.

[Heisenberg]

I'd probably choose RGIII right this second.

That doesn't mean I can't change my mind later on. :)

[rdskn4eva]

I would put RG3 and Luck in that second group of QB's.

1. Elite: Brady, Manning, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Rothlisberger
2. 2nd Tier: Ryan, Romo, Cutler, RG3, Luck, WIlson, Schaub
3. Good: Stafford, Flacco, Rivers, Dalton, Freeman

This is based onm play this year.

Everyone else is below this group.

[InmanRoshi]

ESPN is pretty much saying RGIII is the best thing to ever happen to football.

Even better than Tim Tebow?


But he was going to revolutionize the position!!!!!

[Risen Star]

Stop with the racism nonsense. There is one QB in the history of the NFL that can compare athletically with Griffin and that's Michael Vick. Now if you want to say Griffin will develop into a better pocket passer than Vick has, make that argument....but don't cry racism when the comparison is very much valid. And don't make Vick out to be a pure runner with no throwing skills. That dude can make any throw on the field. His arm can match up against anyone's. It's his accuracy, ability to read defenses and decision making that's lacking.

This isn't even a tough call for me. You have one guy who could end up an all timer in Luck and the next Michael Vick who may or may not develop into a real pro QB.

[Lodeus]

Even better than Tim Tebow?


But he was going to revolutionize the position!!!!!
All he does win :cool:

For real though I would choose RGIII but that can always change. They haven't even played a full season.

[InmanRoshi]

I'd also point out that Dante Culpepper once had a 110 QB Rating and led the NFL in completions and passing yardage that same year. When it goes South with those running QBs, it goes south in a hurry. It just takes one significant injury to slow them down, and when they're forced to play as one dimensional passers they get exposed badly. I believe I read somewhere that RG3 hadn't converted a 3rd and 10 situation until Week 9, which was entering Jamarcus Russell territory. Thus the reason why every NFL GM would pick Luck. You can put him in almost any system with any offense and he'll be successful. RG3 has to play within and specific offense within a specific system tailored around him.

[Jenky]

I think the real question baffling us is: Is RG III better than Russell Wilson?

[Aikbach]

I'd also point out that Dante Culpepper once had a 110 QB Rating and led the NFL in completions and passing yardage that same year. When it goes South with those running QBs, it goes south in a hurry. It just takes one significant injury to slow them down, and when they're forced to play as one dimensional passers they get exposed badly.Duante Culpepper also inherited one of the most incredible offenses of the decade of the 90s, RG3 has no Randy Moss or Cris carter.

[Aikbach]

I think the real question baffling us is: Is RG III better than Russell Wilson?Wilson would be rookie of the year if not for the two first rounders succeeding.

[Doomsday101]

I absolutely agree that it is his nature, and that especially early on, he puts himself at risk. I believe, though he will learn it quickly.

Griffin was asked about the sideline play in the last quarter, and his response was honest, and clearly shows a learning curve. He said that he was making a beeline for the sideline when he remembered how clock stoppage in the NFL works he tried to pull up and stay in bounds. That shows me two things; he knows he should be trying to get out of bounds at the best possible angle, and that he is thinking about the game situation and learning.

In terms of the out of bounds, you really do see that he has learned that lesson, and most of the time is quick enough to get out of bounds without a hit.

In terms of game situation, he will only get better as he is put in more and more situations. Of course if a big play is needed his nature will always push him in that direction, but so does Romo's and every other big league qb. The key is not doing it in every game, or in less than game critical situations.

I don't disagree just that he best learn it quickly because DB and LB drool at the thought of a QB acting like a RB. The can barely touch them behind the line of scrimmage so when they get the chance they are looking to bury that QB.

As for his talent? I have not questioned that since his 1st year playing at Baylor after that I was sold on him being a guy who could make it on the next level.

I said before the draft if I had my choice of RGIII and Luck I would still take Luck but it was not intended as a knock on RGIII I just think over the long haul Luck will have more success. We will see.

[InmanRoshi]

Duante Culpepper also inherited one of the most incredible offenses of the decade of the 90s, RG3 has no Randy Moss or Cris carter.

Uhm,

The year I'm specifically talking about is Culpepper's career year in 2004, when he threw for 4700 yards and led the league in several throwing categories. Chris Carter had already retired. Randy Moss only caught 49 passes for 700+ yards because he was hampered with a hammy injury all year. The team's leading receivers were Jermaine Wiggins, Nate Burleson and Marcus Robinson. Yes, THAT Jermaine Wiggins, Nate Burleson and Marcus Robinson.



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-21_jyYvyZxo/T16-fJ9X6oI/AAAAAAAADqI/HaJaKxYuxfg/s1600/themoreyouknow.jpg

[Aikbach]

Uhm,

The year I'm specifically talking about is Culpepper's career year in 2004, when he threw for 4700 yards and led the league in several throwing categories. Chris Carter had already retired. Randy Moss only caught 49 passes for 700+ yards because he was hampered with a hammy injury all year. The team's leading receivers were Jermaine Wiggins, Nate Burleson and Marcus Robinson. Yes, THAT Jermaine Wiggins, Nate Burleson and Marcus Robinson.



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-21_jyYvyZxo/T16-fJ9X6oI/AAAAAAAADqI/HaJaKxYuxfg/s1600/themoreyouknow.jpgWell if that's your argument it is even more irrelevant than first surmised, comparing a failed veteran's best season with a rookie sensation is outright moot, in fact it's illogical

[DanteEXT]

The short passing "critique" is absurd. I have posted about it 4 times in this thread

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.




Now correct my math if I'm wrong here.... but I believe 222 of 308 is closer to 72.1% than 81%.

[joseephuss]

The short passing "critique" is absurd. I have posted about it 4 times in this thread

Those stats you posted are absurd. I am not going to diminish what Griffin has done this year as a rookie. Looks good to me so far, but it is silly using completions as a way to determine if one QB is throwing short(under 10 yards) more often than another QB. That is a poor use of stats.

The better comparison is to use pass attempts. Compare how many pass attempts are thrown under 10 yards to the total number pass attempts for each QB. Griffin(66.2%) attempts a higher percentage of passes under 10 yards than Tom Brady(64.3%), Matt Ryan(61.7%), Peyton Manning(59.1%) or Aaron Rodgers(63.5%). Those guys just complete a higher percentage of those short passes than Griffin.

Right now on just the pass attempts under 10 yards the completion percentages for these QBs are 71.2%(Griffin), 75%(Brady), 74.7%(Ryan), 76.6%(Manning) and 73.8%(Rodgers).

Completing a higher percentage of those short passes is not the same thing as attempting more of those short passes. That is a poor usage of stats.

[InmanRoshi]

Well if that's your argument it is even more irrelevant than first surmised, comparing a failed veteran's best season with a rookie sensation is outright moot, in fact it's illogical

What can I say? When you're right you're right. It is unfair to compare RG3 to Culpepper when RG3 really hasn't done enough in his career to deserve the comparison yet.

[SkinsHokieFan]

n than another QB. That is a poor use of stats.

The better comparison is to use pass attempts. Compare how many pass attempts are thrown under 10 yards to the total number pass attempts for each QB. Griffin(66.2%) attempts a higher percentage of passes under 10 yards than Tom Brady(64.3%), Matt Ryan(61.7%), Peyton Manning(59.1%) or Aaron Rodgers(63.5%). Those guys just complete a higher percentage of those short passes than Griffin.



Thats within a margin of error, no? 66% to 64% for Brady? So essentially 2 percent more of his passes? That is a huge difference?

PFF has another interesting take today

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/12/04/race-for-rookie-of-the-year-week-13/

1. Robert Griffin III, QB, WAS (+28.3)

He’s already pretty special right? That wasn’t his finest performance as a Redskin, but he got the job done once again. Continues to amaze in what will surely go down as one of the greatest rookie years of all time.

2. Russell Wilson, QB, SEA (+23.1)

Lost in all the debate about RG3 and Luck is just how well Wilson has been playing. His late-game heroics against Chicago should change that. He’s currently our seventh ranked quarterback on the year.

3. Andrew Luck, QB, IND (+4.8)

I’m a little bored of all the talk of his winning record as the complete measure of a quarterback. It’s too simplistic a view to break down individual performance. You can spin it however you want, but Luck was terrible for most of the game against Detroit. Against better teams that won’t do.

[CATCH17]

You can have him, IMO. His play calling in the redzone and 3rd downs make me wish I had hair to pull out.

He adjusts to his talent and tries to put them in the best position with his playcalling. He may not be the best playcaller in the league but he's a heck of a lot better then the clown we have.

[InmanRoshi]

Holy Cripes, just looked up RG3's splits ... 22% of his pass attempts are behind the LOS for the season!!!! 66% of his pass attempts have been 9 yards or less. Literally, almost 1 out of every 4 pass attempts is a screen pass or dump off.

[joseephuss]

Thats within a margin of error, no? 66% to 64% for Brady? So essentially 2 percent more of his passes? That is a huge difference?



I didn't say it was a huge difference. I said it was a better way to represent which QB throws more short passes than the stats you had previously provided.

Also, I am not certain it is within margin of error when one QB has many more overall pass attempts than another QB. Brady(460) has attempted 141.5% more passes than Griffin(325). You can't just extrapolate Griffin's pass attempts out and expect the percentages to remain the same, so that will impact the margin of error.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I didn't say it was a huge difference. I said it was a better way to represent which QB throws more short passes than the stats you had previously provided.

Also, I am not certain it is within margin of error when one QB has many more overall pass attempts than another QB. Brady(460) has attempted 141.5% more passes than Griffin(325). You can't just extrapolate Griffin's pass attempts out and expect the percentages to remain the same, so that will impact the margin of error.

So thusly Brady has thrown more and completed a higher percentage of short passes, which is typical of an offense with spread concepts.

Again, this is a silly canard. RG3 has been incredibly effective, to a Brady/Manningesque level this year from the pocket.

The fact that he has the added dimension of being able to run and a dominant running back in Alfred Morris has only made this offense better.

I would love it if every quarter was the dazzling show that it was in the 2nd quarter on Thanksgiving vs your overrated secondary with deep bombs and back of the shoulder passes. It simply hasn't had to be thus far because of the effective running game (like it was last night)

To minimize the impact of the offense when you compare the same types of passes to other passers (as PFF has done) is just plain silly

The pistol, similar to the shotgun in the '70s, is an evolution in the offensive game, which is why you see Seattle /San Fran and gasp even Indy running it from time to time. All those teams have QBs who can run and pass very well.

At one point the "forward pass" was considered a gimmick. Football changes and now you have QBs with the skill to not only run real fast but also throw the ball accurately and on time. RG3 simply has the most elite skillset with the passing, accuracy, intelligence and running. Kapernick will be another, as will Luck.

[InmanRoshi]

Only 13% of Brady's pass attempts have been behind LOS. (Luck's is around 10%, as is Romo).

This is a far cry from 22% of RG3's.

No !! Can't have Brady comparison !!! Not yours!!!

[SkinsHokieFan]

Only 13% of Brady's pass attempts have been behind LOS. (Luck's is around 10%, as is Romo).

This is a far cry from 22% of RG3's.

No !! Can't have Brady comparison !!! Not yours!!!

Easily I can.

Brady is completeing 80% of his passes within 10 yards.

Along with that BB has taken Oregon and Florida concepts and added it to the Pats offense this year. It is very much a shotgun spread "air raid" "college" attack now.

[Aikbach]

What can I say? When you're right you're right. It is unfair to compare RG3 to Culpepper when RG3 really hasn't done enough in his career to deserve the comparison yet.A perfectly asinine follow up post, at least you're consistent.

[joseephuss]

So thusly Brady has thrown more and completed a higher percentage of short passes, which is typical of an offense with spread concepts.

Again, this is a silly canard. RG3 has been incredibly effective, to a Brady/Manningesque level this year from the pocket.

The fact that he has the added dimension of being able to run and a dominant running back in Alfred Morris has only made this offense better.

I would love it if every quarter was the dazzling show that it was in the 2nd quarter on Thanksgiving vs your overrated secondary with deep bombs and back of the shoulder passes. It simply hasn't had to be thus far because of the effective running game (like it was last night)

To minimize the impact of the offense when you compare the same types of passes to other passers (as PFF has done) is just plain silly

The pistol, similar to the shotgun in the '70s, is an evolution in the offensive game, which is why you see Seattle /San Fran and gasp even Indy running it from time to time. All those teams have QBs who can run and pass very well.

And none of that has anything to do with what I posted. I just think the stat comparison that was used was a poor way to measure which QB throws more short passes. Plain and simple. I didn't say anything negative about Griffin and what he has accomplished. It is just a simple comparison. Griffin throws more short passes per attempt than the other QBs that were brought up in that misleading comparison. Not by a whole lot in some cases, but he does throw more. Those stat comparisons were false and misleading.

RG3 has been incredibly effective, to a Brady/Manningesque level this year from the pocket.

I disagree with this statement. Griffin has had a great rookie campaign. No doubt. I just can't put a QB that attempts 11 fewer passes per game than those two guys on the same plane. Part of what makes Brady and Manning great is they are asked to do a lot, which is why they attempt a large number of passes. The more passes you attempt, the more opportunities for bad things to happen and they have to overcome that. Griffin may get to that point during his career as more things are thrust upon him, but for now I don't think he has played at a Brady/Manningesque level. He has been great for what he has been asked to do, but he hasn't been asked to do what they do.

[joseephuss]

Easily I can.

Brady is completeing 80% of his passes within 10 yards.

Along with that BB has taken Oregon and Florida concepts and added it to the Pats offense this year. It is very much a shotgun spread "air raid" "college" attack now.

Completing and attempting are two different things. Simple concept.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Completing and attempting are two different things. Simple concept.

If Brady were attempting 50% or 45% I think it would make a difference to me

64% to 66% really doesn't. Essentially both are attempting 2/3 of their passes within 10 yards of the LOS

[InmanRoshi]

Easily I can.

Brady is completeing 80% of his passes within 10 yards.

You don't seem to grasp the difference between complete and attempt.

[InmanRoshi]

I hate the fact that we can't get splits better than 10 yards. Pretty sure there is a significance difference in degree of difficulty between attempting a 9 yard seem route in a tight window between multiple defenders and completing a bubble screen.

[myslamsareolder]

Griffin has had multiple games with less than 15 completions (he averages 18)... almost every game is under 20. He also averages 9 rushes... and has had games where he basically rushes as much as passes. Yes he only has a few ints, but remember he has about a billion fumbles the skins have just been lucky to recover them. Every big play he has is to the widest open receivers ever... that crap won't last. Is he smart enough and talented enough to overcome all of that? Yes, but the coaches need to change the way they use him. If not he WILL be Vick 2.0 (that will be totally on coaching though if it happens because he does have to poise and arm to be a pocket qb)

[joseephuss]

If Brady were attempting 50% or 45% I think it would make a difference to me

64% to 66% really doesn't. Essentially both are attempting 2/3 of their passes within 10 yards of the LOS

I agree it is close. Again I never said otherwise. Still, you keep claiming that the other comparison using completions is concrete evidence that Brady uses more short passes. Yet those percentages are also close.

[joseephuss]

I hate the fact that we can't get splits better than 10 yards. Pretty sure there is a significance difference in degree of difficulty between attempting a 9 yard seem route in a tight window between multiple defenders and completing a bubble screen.

Just put out the AdamJT signal and he will somehow supply those numbers for you. I don't know where he finds them, but he probably has access to them.

[DFWJC]

Both Texas High School QBs.
:star:

[Doomsday101]

Holy Cripes, just looked up RG3's splits ... 22% of his pass attempts are behind the LOS for the season!!!! 66% of his pass attempts have been 9 yards or less. Literally, almost 1 out of every 4 pass attempts is a screen pass or dump off.

True but Washington does a good job of running the ball, hitting the short passes to get the defense to come up, then Washington will take the shot down field. You don't need to throw a lot of deep passes you just need to complete the few you throw.

[BraveHeartFan]

I really don't get the Vick or Culpepper comparisons folks. I just don't.

I think this kid has already played better than either of them ever did as a QB. Maybe that's just me.

[joseephuss]

Griffin is 11 of 25 on passes over 20 yards downfield for 44%. Brady is 15 of 46 on passes over 20 yards downfield for 32%.

Of Griffin's 218 completions, 11 were of 20 yards or longer, which is 5.0%. Of Brady's 298 completions, 15 were of 20 yards or longer, which is 5.0%.

Brady's 46 attempts of 20 yards or longer over 460 pass attempts is 10.0%. Griffin's 25 attempts of 20 yards or longer over 325 pass attempts is 7.7%.

[joseephuss]

I really don't get the Vick or Culpepper comparisons folks. I just don't.

I think this kid has already played better than either of them ever did as a QB. Maybe that's just me.

I mostly agree although Culpepper had a truly great season in 2004. It was the 7th best single season as far as passer rating(110.9). He lit it up that year. He also had a couple of other very good years, but I do think Griffin seems much more mature and open to improving. There is no comparison when it comes to Vick who just wasn't a good passer.

[rdskn4eva]

I really don't get the Vick or Culpepper comparisons folks. I just don't.

I think this kid has already played better than either of them ever did as a QB. Maybe that's just me.

Yea people comparing RG3 to Vick are just being lazy.

[Aikbach]

I really don't get the Vick or Culpepper comparisons folks. I just don't.

I think this kid has already played better than either of them ever did as a QB. Maybe that's just me.This is because you live in reality.

[Risen Star]

I really don't get the Vick or Culpepper comparisons folks. I just don't.

I think this kid has already played better than either of them ever did as a QB. Maybe that's just me.

If you think that, I can only assume you didn't watch Culpepper in Minnesota when he had that great offense.

Griffin hasn't had anywhere near the year. He's hyped more. I'll give you that.

[NIBGoldenchild]

I really don't get the Vick or Culpepper comparisons folks. I just don't.

I think this kid has already played better than either of them ever did as a QB. Maybe that's just me.

It's not just you, it's you and everyone else that doesn't get personal gratification in championing Luck over your rival's franchise QB on a message board.

I find it so very interesting there is so much "analysis" being paid to Griffin's stats, but these same posters have stated very little about Luck's. I guess his 21 turnovers and sub-60% completion percentage aren't an easy sell for their argument. Oh wait, we can just say he's "asked to do more, therefore, it's fine that he performs worse." :rolleyes:

[Risen Star]

Holy Cripes, just looked up RG3's splits ... 22% of his pass attempts are behind the LOS for the season!!!! 66% of his pass attempts have been 9 yards or less. Literally, almost 1 out of every 4 pass attempts is a screen pass or dump off.

Dude, I wasn't lying. He runs a very dumbed down, simplified offense. The head coach knows he didn't get Andrew Luck. He's got to spoon feed the inferior Griffin. Let him use his athletic ability, ala Michael Vick, to make up for a clear underdeveloped pro skill set.

I'm sure if you asked Rat Face if the offense he's running right now is the offense he intends to run 2 years from now he'd tell you no. It's obvious to anyone without a pig snout on their nose or Baylor blood in their veins.

He can't just be an athletic phenom who may develop into a great QB to his supporters. Nope. He's got to be Andrew Luck. A clearly better player and prospect. Uh, no. Not by a long shot.

[NIBGoldenchild]

Griffin is 11 of 25 on passes over 20 yards downfield for 44%. Brady is 15 of 46 on passes over 20 yards downfield for 32%.

Of Griffin's 218 completions, 11 were of 20 yards or longer, which is 5.0%. Of Brady's 298 completions, 15 were of 20 yards or longer, which is 5.0%.

Brady's 46 attempts of 20 yards or longer over 460 pass attempts is 10.0%. Griffin's 25 attempts of 20 yards or longer over 325 pass attempts is 7.7%.

:eek: Blasphemy!!!!!!

[Naes]

Holy Cripes, just looked up RG3's splits ... 22% of his pass attempts are behind the LOS for the season!!!! 66% of his pass attempts have been 9 yards or less. Literally, almost 1 out of every 4 pass attempts is a screen pass or dump off.Why are you surprised at that? Look at the percentages of every top QB in the game and you'll see the percentage of passes they throw < 10 yards is fairly invariant.

[TeddyKGB]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi
Holy Cripes, just looked up RG3's splits ... 22% of his pass attempts are behind the LOS for the season!!!! 66% of his pass attempts have been 9 yards or less. Literally, almost 1 out of every 4 pass attempts is a screen pass or dump off.


I wonder if Griffin's pitches in the option game skew that "behind the LOS" number?

I love both Luck and RG3. My thoughts are that while Luck maybe be a top 10 QB for years to come - he is much closer to his ceiling already. I don't think RG3 has quite scratched the surface of his which is a scary thought. For a 2-3 year stretch I say Luck but for a career I take Griffin.

[StylisticS]

Luck has definitely not reached his ceiling nor is he close to doing so.

[Doomsday101]

I wonder if Griffin's pitches in the option game skew that "behind the LOS" number?

I love both Luck and RG3. My thoughts are that while Luck maybe be a top 10 QB for years to come - he is much closer to his ceiling already. I don't think RG3 has quite scratched the surface of his which is a scary thought. For a 2-3 year stretch I say Luck but for a career I take Griffin.

Luck is just getting started and should have more command of the offense, understanding of the defense schemes around the league as time goes on. He has very good talent as does RGIII but he has room to grow

[SkinsFan28]

Dude, I wasn't lying. He runs a very dumbed down, simplified offense. The head coach knows he didn't get Andrew Luck. He's got to spoon feed the inferior Griffin. Let him use his athletic ability, ala Michael Vick, to make up for a clear underdeveloped pro skill set.

I'm sure if you asked Rat Face if the offense he's running right now is the offense he intends to run 2 years from now he'd tell you no. It's obvious to anyone without a pig snout on their nose or Baylor blood in their veins.

He can't just be an athletic phenom who may develop into a great QB to his supporters. Nope. He's got to be Andrew Luck. A clearly better player and prospect. Uh, no. Not by a long shot.

What a dumb statement. Multiple analysts, and defensive players from teams that have played the Skins, have said that the offensive scheme is very tough to defend. From one or two formations, they are able to run multiple attacks, all dependent on Griffins ability to read the defense pre-snap, and post snap, and choose the best attack. Too many articles are out there for you not to know this, you simply choose to believe your self-induced lie about a "college" offense but the biggest fact that belies your delusion is that this "simplistic" offense currently ranks #2 in rush yards/attempt and #2 in pass yards/attempt, after 12 games, despite a ton of game tape, and missing it's #1 TE and #1 pass receiver for substantial parts of those 12 games, and having the most penalty yards per game this year.

[Wheat]

I say this as a Skins fan.

Take whichever you want and I'll be happy with the other.

Skins run the ball more than the Colts. Colts throw a ton more INTs than the Skins. Its obvious "why". 17 TDs to 4 picks for RG3 shows good decision making.

Luck throws it almost 200 times more than either RG3 or Russell Wilson.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gmZ3SE3Hpg4/UL9ouSCoc3I/AAAAAAAACUU/g0pcCIoKrBU/s1600/12-5-2012+10-29-57+AM.jpg

Again, take Luck or RG3. I would be thrilled with the other guy on my team.

[CowboyChris]

what a fascinating thread...its been a great read so far. (not being sarcastic)

can i ask you Skin fans a question? If Washington had the #1 overall pick who would you preferred, Luck or Griffin? please answer honestly.

[SkinsHokieFan]

what a fascinating thread...its been a great read so far. (not being sarcastic)

can i ask you Skin fans a question? If Washington had the #1 overall pick who would you preferred, Luck or Griffin? please answer honestly.

In April Luck hands down. Not even a question in my mind, I have had a boner for Andrew Luck since I saw him play live in January 2011 in the Orange Bowl.

Now? RG3, no question. Not just the on the field play but the off the field package and what he means for Washington DC

[zrinkill]

Luck ...... and its not even close.

[CitySlicker202]

I joined this message board in most part because of this question. First and foremost let's look at the question itself.....RG3 or Andrew Luck? Off the bat it won't produce many credible answers because it was posed to a predominate Cowboy fanbase with one of the options being a REDSKIN QB!

Secondly, you can't properly debate RG3 Vs Andrew Luck without looking at a couple numbers. Luck has throw almost 150 more passes than RG3 yet they BOTH have 17 passing TDs as of week 12. Also; as of right now, RG3 is FAR more accurate than Luck with 67% compared to a 55% Completion Rating. And because RG3 is more accurate than Luck, 4 Ints compared to 16 Ints is a significant gap in decision making leading to turnovers. I don't care about "future prognostication", right now RG3 is more accurate and makes better decisions than Andrew Luck....Period!

Thirdly, many people say that Luck is better because he's 8-4 as the Colts QB. Let's actually breakdown that 8-4.....the AFC South isn't exactly a world beating division. Aside from Houston being a legit squad, the Titans are 4-8 while the Jaguars are 2-10 (he plays in a VERY weak division, I'd like to see someone argue otherwise!). In those 8 wins he's beaten ONLY TWO teams at .500 or better while the other 6 Wins came from below .500 teams (food for thought....he's not beating anyone significant!!)

RG3 on the other hand is 6-6 as Redskin QB in a much more DIFFICULT DIVISION (Three teams at .500 or better as of week 12). In his 6 wins....4 have come from teams who are currently .500 OR better. Not to mention RG3 has proven he can beat division rivals late in the season which includes the World Champion Giants.

So all in all, RG3 as of RIGHT NOW is better at accuracy, not turning the ball over, and winning games against teams who are also winning which includes division rivals.

The unbiased selection here is Robert Griffin III.

[CitySlicker202]

And another thing....lets put an end to comparing RG3 to Vick because it's weak, extremely lazy, and one sided analysis based on the fact both are speedy Black QBs. And even still, Vick has been historically a east-west alluding scrambler who would take off at the drop of a hat. RG3 on the other hand has Olympic speed he uses to escape a collapsing pocket in a north-south fashion.....THEY DONT EVEN RUN THE SAME AT ALL!

RG3 is currently and will probably always be more accurate than Vick and continue to make fewer bad decisions. If you want to compare RG3 to anyone, make it be Steve Young or Fran Tarkenton. Any other comparison is weak, lacks thought and consideration to RG3's elite dual threat talents.

[InmanRoshi]

right now RG3 is more accurate and makes better decisions than Andrew Luck....Period!


Gee, I wonder if that might have anything to do with the fact that RG3 is throwing about 25% of his pass attempts behind the line of scrimmage, compared to Luck's 10%.

[Doomsday101]

And another thing....lets put an end to comparing RG3 to Vick because it's weak, extremely lazy, and one sided analysis based on the fact both are speedy Black QBs. And even still, Vick has been historically a east-west alluding scrambler who would take off at the drop of a hat. RG3 on the other hand has Olympic speed he uses to escape a collapsing pocket in a north-south fashion.....THEY DONT EVEN RUN THE SAME AT ALL!

RG3 is currently and will probably always be more accurate than Vick and continue to make fewer bad decisions. If you want to compare RG3 to anyone, make it be Steve Young or Fran Tarkenton. Any other comparison is weak, lacks thought and consideration to RG3's elite dual threat talents.

I agree. Outside of being black, QB with the ability to run there is no real comparison with Vick and RGIII. I was glad Gruden pointed out how quick RGIII is out of the shot gun to get the ball and get off the quick pass accurately and how difficult that can be. RGIII talent are better than Vick who looked to run 1st early on in his career and now that he is having to actually play QB he is not that good. Andy Reid offense is not that complex in terms of QB'ing it is very QB friendly and yet Vick screws it up.

[Doomsday101]

Gee, I wonder if that might have anything to do with the fact that RG3 is throwing about 25% of his pass attempts behind the line of scrimmage, compared to Luck's 10%.

No doubt about it. Colts are having to rely a lot more on Luck and the passing game. Hell Luck has had to put up over 500 passes and the Colts ground game is not something defense are overly concerned with. RGIII is not being asked to put the ball up at the same rate.

[DFWJC]

I really don't get the Vick or Culpepper comparisons folks. I just don't.

I think this kid has already played better than either of them ever did as a QB. Maybe that's just me.
I agree about the comps.
Not sure that I agree that RG3 has already ourplayed any season that either of the had though. But that's another topic.

[T-RO]

I'd rather have Luck. He's utterly complete. He can make any pass, he can scramble, run down field. He's got elite character and he's already demonstrated some amazing clutch characteristics.

I'm still unconvinced in Griffin's intermediate throws. But more than anything I'd be concerned with RGIII getting hurt. He can sure break down a defense with those legs. But I'm not sure I want my quarterback running as often as he does...even though he does it so well.

RG3 is a amazing talent and is certainly a better passer than Vick...maybe than McNabb as well. Still...I'd go with Luck.

[SkinsFan28]

what a fascinating thread...its been a great read so far. (not being sarcastic)

can i ask you Skin fans a question? If Washington had the #1 overall pick who would you preferred, Luck or Griffin? please answer honestly.

I can say this,
1) I am not a big college football fan, even when I was at College Park I rarely went to a Uof Md football game.
2) When it became painfully obvious last year that we were going to be in the market, and were going to be dealing whatever to get the "franchise qb" I started looking at both of them (along with the FA types like Flynn/Manning)
3) I didn't study tape, but I watched both in the late season games.

I came away wanting Griffin, and there was one play that took me there. Griffin's team was down, and he was running out, and the cynic in me was thinking I wanted nothing to do with a running qb ala Vick. Then as he was approaching the line, and a LB was about to get him he took 3 steps to the left and threw a bee line bomb to one of his WRs in the endzone. I watched that play a ton, looking at where his eyes were, how he made the LB miss, and how well placed the bomb on the run was placed. At that point, I wanted him, period end of statement. I watched Luck, and nothing at all was bad, but nothing about him made me think, he's the guy I want.

Then I did go look at stats, just to see if Griffin was a one year wonder and his stats showed a greater progression, even with his injured year. In fact from 2010 to 2011 his rating leveled off/went down a smidgeon.

[DanteEXT]

Luck is throwing 27.6% of his passes 15 or more yards downfield. Griffin is only throwing 17.5%. At least according to Advanced NFL Stats. Do what you want with the stat.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Luck is throwing 27.6% of his passes 15 or more yards downfield. Griffin is only throwing 17.5%. At least according to Advanced NFL Stats. Do what you want with the stat.

Sounds to me like Luck is forcing the ball downfield as opposed to taking what a defense gives him.

I saw a QB do that last year, his name was Rex Grossman

[joseephuss]

Sounds to me like Luck is forcing the ball downfield as opposed to taking what a defense gives him.

I saw a QB do that last year, his name was Rex Grossman

You would have to watch the games to make that determination, which it doesn't sound as if you do.

[DFWJC]

Sounds to me like Luck is forcing the ball downfield as opposed to taking what a defense gives him.

I saw a QB do that last year, his name was Rex Grossman
Of course you would choose to compare Luck to Grossman:lmao2:

[rdskn4eva]

You would have to watch the games to make that determination, which it doesn't sound as if you do.

I watched that Detroit game as well as some other games on Indy this year. Luck is an absolute beast. Dude is the real deal. But he does try to force too many balls. I know two of his picks on Sunday were no where near a WR. I dont know if the receiver ran the wrong route or if Luck just threw a bad pass.

Luck is playing like a typical rookie in that he has a ton of moments that make you saw "wow, this guy is amazing" and he has a ton of moments that make you say "wow, what the heck was he thinking on that throw".

[Naes]

Gee, I wonder if that might have anything to do with the fact that RG3 is throwing about 25% of his pass attempts behind the line of scrimmage, compared to Luck's 10%.Again, the numbers are out there. Why not look for yourself?

RG3 has been more accurate than Luck at every distance other than throws that were between 31 and 40 yards (0% on 4 attempts to Luck's 21% on 14 attempts). Yes, his sample size is smaller, but it's really not as cut and dry as you're trying to make it