Keep Your Cat Indoors, For Natures Sake

[TheCount]

In a report that scaled up local surveys and pilot studies to national dimensions, scientists from the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute and the Fish and Wildlife Service estimated that domestic cats in the United States — both the pet Fluffies that spend part of the day outdoors and the unnamed strays and ferals that never leave it — kill a median of 2.4 billion birds and 12.3 billion mammals a year, most of them native mammals like shrews, chipmunks and voles rather than introduced pests like the Norway rat.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/science/that-cuddly-kitty-of-yours-is-a-killer.html?_r=0

Yet another reason why "outdoor" cat "owners" that somehow insist their cat be the worlds problem should reconsider.

[Lonestar94]

Wow. Cats are hunters. I just realized that.

Pardon me while I let my cat out.

[arglebargle]

I don't think we have shrews, voles and chipmunks here. I just wish the cats would keep the mice, bugs, and skunks under control. And keep from losing all their lunch money to the raccoons in those overnight poker games....

[Hopeuhavechange]

I have solved my ongoing battles with cats on my property since this guy showed up recently (ignore my camera's timestamp/I'll get around to fixing that one day) He comes for the White Winged Doves who pig out and loiter about..they are not my favorite. Anyway, the cats are terrified of him while my resident Mockingbird and crew of Blue Jays torment him and blow his cover more often than not. But those wandering cats want no part of him and scatter like roaches when they see his approaching profile in the sky. Just look at those talons. It may be hard to fully appreciate their lethality from this shot. On this day he bathed and drank for some 20 minutes. And this is a Cooper's Hawk.

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag33/Pinname/Red-shoulderedHawk7-31-20106-24-03PM_zps8b8808ef.jpg

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

Cats killing nuisance vermin??? Shameful! I just got my cat a cool trucker hat that say "Been Shrewing". He wears it all the time while he's out getting his vole on.

[speedkilz88]

Cats help keep pests and varmint populations under control? We need more cats!

[Hopeuhavechange]

Cats help keep pests and varmint populations under control? We need more cats!

Roaming cats ARE pests.

[TheCount]

lol, Cat owners. You guys are selective of hearing if nothing else.

[burmafrd]

Billions? They kill billions? Excuse me while I show serious doubt of that number. Considering the number of cats that are strictly indoor or poor hunters or live in areas that do not have a lot of prey, that would mean all the rest of the cats are killing something every day or so. Color me skeptical.

[speedkilz88]

lol, Cat owners. You guys are selective of hearing if nothing else.

I wouldn't call myself a cat person. I just call this a stupid argument.

[TheCount]

I wouldn't call myself a cat person. I just call this a stupid argument.

Of course, it's stupid if you refuse to read it. Vermin aren't the only animals being killed.

Billions? They kill billions? Excuse me while I show serious doubt of that number. Considering the number of cats that are strictly indoor or poor hunters or live in areas that do not have a lot of prey, that would mean all the rest of the cats are killing something every day or so. Color me skeptical.

Did you even read the article?

[jobberone]

I wouldn't trust those numbers but I don't know for certain they aren't valid.

[vta]

What about Lynx's?

[Lonestar94]

What about Lynx's?

I have a baby lynx and let him outside all the time.

[vta]

I have a baby lynx and let him outside all the time.

No kidding? They are generally wild animals and I wonder if they're factored into the equation as well.

[Hopeuhavechange]

I wouldn't trust those numbers but I don't know for certain they aren't valid.

Surely it is hard to get our minds around such a boggling number, but I've been following these reports for years and this is consistent across studies. Years ago they estimated a huge range of 100 million to 1 billion birds killed by cats. But upon closer study and more accurate measurement of both roaming cats and feral species coupled with their avg kill rt, it really isn't terribly difficult to make a fair assessment.

And suppose these numbers are high. What number would be an acceptable U.S. wild bird kill number by domestic cats? 39 million? 97 million? 543 million? More credible/acceptable? I understand not all people share the same values but as I see it it is people who long ago domesticated cats and we now bear responsibility for them as an obligation to nature.

Another take from 2011:

"Bird Kills by House Cats

News from the American Bird Conservancy (Washington, D.C., August 6, 2012)

A new study of house cats allowed to roam outdoors finds that nearly one-third succeeded in capturing and killing animals. The cats, which wore special video cameras around their necks that recorded their outdoor activities, killed an average of 2.1 animals every week they were outside, but brought less than one of every four of their kills home. Of particular interest, bird kills constituted about 13 percent of the total wildlife kills. Based on these results, American Bird Conservancy and The Wildlife Society estimate that house cats kill far more than the previous estimate of a billion birds and other animals each year.

The study was carried out by scientists from the University of Georgia and the National Geographic Society's Crittercam program."

http://www.sequoia-audubon.org/conservation.html

[Teren_Kanan]

Wow Cats are cooler than I thought. I wish our cats could kill a bird, they are too retarded though. One of our cats catches lizards sometimes, but the other 2 dont' know what to do with them so they pretty much ignore them.


Vermin aren't the only animals being killed.


What else are they killing? Vermin are the only ones I saw listed in the article. Rabbits, Birds, Moles, Shrews, Chipmunks, Snakes, Bugs, lizards, frogs and voles. Did I miss some non vermin?

I don't see any problem with cats being able to roam free, so long as it's ok in your community. I didn't grow up with cats as pets, but I never lived in a neighborhood where they weren't allowed to roam outside, never had a problem with a cat growing up.

Still not a big fan of them as animals because dogs exist and are better in every way, but hey to each their own. I mean hell, some people own birds, and I can't think of a more useless pet, so much so that I list them as vermin. I mean, they poop on my motorcycle, not cool.

But hey some neighborhoods are full of bird feeders and it's pretty commonplace to have birds everywhere. I wouldn't want to live in a neighborhood where that was common cause birds are awful and noisy, but again, to each their own. I certainly wouldn't move into a neighborhood where bird feeders were common, and then complain about birds.

[TheCount]

I don't see any problem with cats being able to roam free, so long as it's ok in your community.

See, if I edit the rest of your crazy statements out, you almost sound logical. :laugh2:

[Lonestar94]

No kidding? They are generally wild animals and I wonder if they're factored into the equation as well.

Not really, but I have a grey manx cat, which looks like a baby lynx.

[kristie]

i have 3 cats of my own, & my husband & i keep them inside. for us, that's just how it is.

[ScipioCowboy]

Someone definitely needs to have a stern discussion with these cats, and make them understand in no uncertain terms that what nature has equipped them to do is unnatural.

[burmafrd]

Of course, it's stupid if you refuse to read it. Vermin aren't the only animals being killed.



Did you even read the article?

do you ever think before you post?

[burmafrd]

Someone definitely needs to have a stern discussion with these cats, and make them understand in no uncertain terms that what nature has equipped them to do is unnatural.

that is why this is a joke frankly. They are doing what they are meant to do and suddenly some here are whining and crying.

[TheDallasDon]

that is why this is a joke frankly. They are doing what they are meant to do and suddenly some here are whining and crying.

Animals kill other animals, its what they do.

[burmafrd]

Animals kill other animals, its what they do.

not according to Disney and the PC. They are mislead and need education.

[ConcordCowboy]

My Cat Dexter like the person he was named after is an absolute Serial Killer.

His skills are finely honed and you would be hard pressed to find one better.

[TheCount]

do you ever think before you post?

Typical response from you. When you have nothing better to say, insults are your trump card.

Someone definitely needs to have a stern discussion with these cats, and make them understand in no uncertain terms that what nature has equipped them to do is unnatural.

That's precisely the point. Keep your pet cat inside because it is a killing machine.

[Romo 2 Austin]

So? Should they eat grass?

[Hopeuhavechange]

So? Should they eat grass?

Cat Chow. Or make if Suzy Homemaker feels industrious she can whip something up.

[Hopeuhavechange]

Someone definitely needs to have a stern discussion with these cats, and make them understand in no uncertain terms that what nature has equipped them to do is unnatural.

Points for being funny. But a plea for a little little clarity here. Nonnative species introduced into an ecosystem isn't natural. And, btw, a majority of kills are from stray cats living in their various colonies, some 40 million of whom are rounded up and euthanasized every year, lest they overwhelm the environment and broadly communicate diseases within the population and without (nature hard at work-- self-preservation being the 1st law of nature and pathogens are hardly excepted fr the law).

Ultimately people are accountable for it and it's not fair to the lovable(?) feline in my view. Domestic cats belong in the domicile playing with string and chasing their shadows. Suppose most dog owners let loose their dogs to roam in packs to hunt little Fluffy wherever he's found...would not this instinctive predation be natural for Rover and Spike? Is this what we want?

[TheCount]

Cat Chow. Or make if Suzy Homemaker feels industrious she can whip something up.

lol, I didn't think that was a serious question but I could be wrong. Cats don't even eat what they kill for the most part. If they did, that number would be a lot lower.

[joseephuss]

Yet the new study estimates that free-roaming pets account for only about 29 percent of the birds and 11 percent of the mammals killed by domestic cats each year, and the real problem arises over how to manage the 80 million or so stray or feral cats that commit the bulk of the wildlife slaughter.

Looks like the problem is less about people's pet cats and more about the feral cat population.

[Faerluna]

Points for being funny. But a plea for a little little clarity here. Nonnative species introduced into an ecosystem isn't natural. And, btw, a majority of kills are from stray cats living in their various colonies, some 40 million of whom are rounded up and euthanasized every year, lest they overwhelm the environment and broadly communicate diseases within the population and without (nature hard at work-- self-preservation being the 1st law of nature and pathogens are hardly excepted fr the law).

The only disease that cats and humans are remotely likely to share is Toxoplasmosis. The last confirmed case of cat to human rabies transmission was 35 years ago and cats are very unlikely to have rabies in general.

And the amount of animals, in particular birds, that are killed by urban sprawl and flying into buildings far outweighs the number killed by cats. Nobody wants to try to track that, though, because you really can't. Just like this article. You can take a small sample of cats vs prey and show the data any way you like and call it accurate.

Not to mention, cats are more likely to kill the sick and the older, more compromised birds that a healthy bird.

As someone that takes care of lots of feral cats for going on a decade, the amount of animals killed by cats is far smaller than articles of this nature portray. If cats were truly killing that many birds, there would be a significant drop off in population and dead birds laying around in vast quantities. But there aren't, because it's simply propaganda.

[Hopeuhavechange]

The only disease that cats and humans are remotely likely to share is Toxoplasmosis. The last confirmed case of cat to human rabies transmission was 35 years ago and cats are very unlikely to have rabies in general.

And the amount of animals, in particular birds, that are killed by urban sprawl and flying into buildings far outweighs the number killed by cats. Nobody wants to try to track that, though, because you really can't. Just like this article. You can take a small sample of cats vs prey and show the data any way you like and call it accurate.

If cats were truly killing that many birds, there would be a significant drop off in population and dead birds laying around in vast quantities. But there aren't, because it's simply propaganda.

Not to mention, cats are more likely to kill the sick and the older, more compromised birds that a healthy bird.

As someone that takes care of lots of feral cats for going on a decade, the amount of animals killed by cats is far smaller than articles of this nature portray.

forgive one hand typing- are you suggesting the article is mostly/completely a fabrication? Why? I've seen unrelated studies suggest similar numbers for some time. A conspiracy afoot? Who is behind this campaign of propaganda?

I have seen what i believe to be healthy birds taken by cats and deposited around, usually on a porch, most frequently Mourning Doves who lack astute awareness of many other birds; also Robins protecting their brood. I know this fr observation. As for the Toxo disease rt I will have to look into it. I suspect much of that goes undetected or unreported.

Are you advocating for nonnative (but i repeat myself) feral cats..is that a good thing? And house cats should be left to take wild animals for sport and tossed aside when the become bored with the corpse? Oh, it's not really a problem in your view, or is exaggerated i gather. And there are drops in population certain birds which may not be wholly due to cats but they are a factor. Why not eliminate it? Not the cats but free ranging domestics and feral populations? Doesn't seem all that radical to me.

[Hopeuhavechange]

lol, I didn't think that was a serious question but I could be wrong. Cats don't even eat what they kill for the most part. If they did, that number would be a lot lower.

right very few cats consume their kill. ferals must be an exception. otherwise...

[zrinkill]

What else are they killing? Vermin are the only ones I saw listed in the article. Rabbits, Birds, Moles, Shrews, Chipmunks, Snakes, Bugs, lizards, frogs and voles. Did I miss some non vermin?

My thought as well.

[Hopeuhavechange]

And i should recall the times my better half has removed apparently vital, HEALTHY birds fr her cat's mouth which it brought back inside the house and was able to recover and fly away post release. A diminished animal cldnt do so, we know that. Also racked w guilt he has taken two birds to wildlife rehabbers in similar circumstances, and the only obvious issue was the bird was punctured by her cat! These are anecdotes but I have every reason to believe it's typical. Let's face it- cats are remarkably efficient predators.

[ConcordCowboy]

right very few cats consume their kill. ferals must be an exception. otherwise...

Dexter eats everything he catches except moles.

He never eats them.

He has left me many a Skull licked clean Predator trophy style on my porch.

Oh and he won't eat livers.

He left me last week on my walk...a perfect mouse head only...this one wasn't licked clean though, with it's liver right next to it.

[ConcordCowboy]

Pesticides are killing birds, bees, and bats by the millions


Estimates from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service indicate that millions of birds and fish die every year from pesticide exposure. Scientists are now discovering that even low level exposure is disrupting the animal kingdom and causing new diseases to develop, threatening many species with extinction.

Roughly 90 percent of the nation's rivers and streams are contaminated with pesticides, affecting more than 80 percent of fish. More than 30 percent of the nation's aquifers are contaminated as well, affecting the drinking water of millions of people....


http://www.naturalnews.com/027971_pesticides_bees.html

[MonsterD]

Moar cat threads please

http://erroraccessdenied.com/files/images/server.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=4c-cjgztznu-1M&tbnid=xRHp2VIn19aoOM:&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Ferroraccessdenied.com%2Fnode%2F75 2&ei=M10JUZSJBZDlygH54YHADw&bvm=bv.41642243,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCNG1dIUrWB17SyLcVaPkVab-kflOhg&ust=1359654580191975)

[ScipioCowboy]

That's precisely the point. Keep your pet cat inside because it is a killing machine.

More than that, my cat, Butterkup, is a cybernetic killing machine from the future.

He actually knows two human words: "Sarah" and "Connor". And he's always meowing about them. Quite frankly, he seems obsessed, and I'm a little worried.

[ScipioCowboy]

Points for being funny. But a plea for a little little clarity here. Nonnative species introduced into an ecosystem isn't natural. And, btw, a majority of kills are from stray cats living in their various colonies, some 40 million of whom are rounded up and euthanasized every year, lest they overwhelm the environment and broadly communicate diseases within the population and without (nature hard at work-- self-preservation being the 1st law of nature and pathogens are hardly excepted fr the law).

Ultimately people are accountable for it and it's not fair to the lovable(?) feline in my view. Domestic cats belong in the domicile playing with string and chasing their shadows. Suppose most dog owners let loose their dogs to roam in packs to hunt little Fluffy wherever he's found...would not this instinctive predation be natural for Rover and Spike? Is this what we want?

Excellent points all around.

If people didn't exist, cats would just stay locked up in their homes all day where they couldn't hurt anyone.

[ConcordCowboy]

Excellent points all around.

If people didn't exist, cats would just stay locked up in their homes all day where they couldn't hurt anyone.

:laugh2:

Yeah like cats never existed outside before humans domesticated them and decide that THEY wanted to keep them inside.

[ConcordCowboy]

Dexter says just try and keep me inside...

http://usrbin.info/wikipediavspredator/media/img/predator.jpg

[joseephuss]

More than that, my cat, Butterkup, is a cybernetic killing machine from the future.

He actually knows two human words: "Sarah" and "Connor". And he's always meowing about them. Quite frankly, he seems obsessed, and I'm a little worried.

My cat is an indoor cat that just types on the computer all day and somehow dead birds end up piling up by the front door. It is very disconcerting.

[ScipioCowboy]

You know what else science has proved about cats?

When you put them in a box and close the lid, they're both alive and dead until you reopen the box and observe them.

True story... :D

[dogberry]

Since Richard Fernandez received one of these letters from the Australian government, I assume that the cat is a metaphor.

"Tyrants can't abide independent minded creatures."

[joseephuss]

You know what else science has proved about cats?

When you put them in a box and close the lid, they're both alive and dead until you reopen the box and observe them.

True story... :D

You left out a couple of critical items that are also in the box.

[ScipioCowboy]

You left out a couple of critical items that are also in the box.

You're right. How irresponsible of me.

You must put the cat in a box with a vile of poison, a radioactive isotope, and a sensor capable of detecting the spin of a photon. If the isotope emits a photon that spins clockwise, the sensor will detect it and release the poison in the box. However, if the photon is spinning counterclockwise, the poison will not be released.

After the photon has been released and detected, the cat is actually both alive and dead until you observe it.

You know what this means? Zombie cats are real! But they only exist when you're NOT looking at them.

My question about this little thought experiment has always been this: Does the experiment only apply to cats and, if so, does it only apply to cats owned by Schrodinger?

[Denim Chicken]

My neighbors and I love that my cat kills mice and moles. He has a bell, so he doesn’t really get birds (at least not the smart ones) and we keep him inside during fletching season. He is not happy being inside all the time—never was, even before he got out for the first time. It something wired inside him, I think. Though, my wife parents and my parents both have had cats that do not want anything to do with the outside.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Cats killing nuisance vermin??? Shameful! I just got my cat a cool trucker hat that say "Been Shrewing". He wears it all the time while he's out getting his vole on.

:laugh2:

[ABQCOWBOY]

You're right. How irresponsible of me.

You must put the cat in a box with a vile of poison, a radioactive isotope, and a sensor capable of detecting the spin of a photon. If the isotope emits a photon that spins clockwise, the sensor will detect it and release the poison in the box. However, if the photon is spinning counterclockwise, the poison will not be released.

After the photon has been released and detected, the cat is actually both alive and dead until you observe it.

You know what this means? Zombie cats are real! But they only exist when you're NOT looking at them.

My question about this little thought experiment has always been this: Does the experiment only apply to cats and, if so, does it only apply to cats owned by Schrodinger? :P

Why you gotta drag Schrodinger's name through the mud here Sip?

:D

[Hopeuhavechange]

Everyone's a comedian. And yet this is serious business, for Utopia is within our reach, but not until we deal with the cat problem!

[ScipioCowboy]

I don't know what science has against cats. But when it isn't trapping them in boxes and trying to poison them, it's insisting they be kept behind lock and key.

[Hopeuhavechange]

I don't know what science has against cats. But when it isn't trapping them in boxes and trying to poison them, it's insisting they be kept behind lock and key.

I'm not in favor of that per se. Put them on a leash. Take them for a spin. But funny you should take this in a science-centric tangent. I'm working on a theory and will present it at the right ime. You know the elusive dark energy that cannot quite be accounted for and has sent the scientific community into such a prolonged frenzy of research/study? I'm confident now that it has something to do with cats. They are the preeminent dark underbelly in the Universe. Stay tuned.

[ScipioCowboy]

I'm not in favor of that per se. Put them on a leash. Take them for a spin. But funny you should take this in a science-centric tangent. I'm working on a theory and will present it at the right ime. You know the elusive dark energy that cannot quite be accounted for and has sent the scientific community into such a prolonged frenzy of research/study? I'm confident now that it has something to do with cats. They are the preeminent dark underbelly in the Universe. Stay tuned.

In essence, you're saying that cats are what's keeping the universe expanding at a rate faster than what we'd expect. If that's the case, if it weren't for cats, we wouldn't exist at all!

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

Just too many stray pets

Top Reasons to Keep Cats Indoors (http://cats.about.com/od/indoorsvsoutdoors/tp/keepindoors.htm)

[jubal]

Everyone's a comedian. And yet this is serious business, for Utopia is within our reach, but not until we deal with the cat problem!

I for one would like to lump the cat problem with the English Sparrow and the flocks of, pooping on everything,Grackles,you know the ones that swarm in and on the trees and buildings around the malls and parking lots.

[ethiostar]

Self-defense is an individual right.

http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo303/pumango/81.gif

[ConcordCowboy]

Self-defense is an individual right.

http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo303/pumango/81.gif

That's a dumb bird.

[Hopeuhavechange]

That's a dumb bird.

That's a Mocker protecting his clutch. Brave is the work you're looking for there.

[joseephuss]

That's a Mocker protecting his clutch. Brave is the work you're looking for there.

Dead is the word the bird found.

[Hopeuhavechange]

I for one would like to lump the cat problem with the English Sparrow and the flocks of, pooping on everything,Grackles,you know the ones that swarm in and on the trees and buildings around the malls and parking lots.

Sparrows(and Starlings) represent nonnative species introduced by well-meaning humans and this highlights the plague of introducing nonnative populations into an ecosystem.

They displace native species just as feral cats overrun their environments altering natural balance. This is the crux of the issue and nibbling around the edges of of arguments to rip apart proposed solutions fails to confront the larger fundamental issue on the table.

My last comment on the cat issue as it's run its course and I'm weary of it. But by all means tho y'all carry on.

[Hopeuhavechange]

Dead is the word the bird found.

I lied: this is the final final note. Hear me now- Our avian friend found glory in heroism thru devotion. We can all learn a lot from him. Notwithstanding tho I could learn him the finer points of a proper ambush.

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

That's a dumb bird.

:lmao2:

Mockingbirds are very territorial .... their squawk sort of reminds me of the s-word. ;)

This poor burd made the mistake of being too close to the ground. What smarter birds do is fly from behind the cat and dive-bomb from a height and peck the cat's head until they give up.

[TheCount]

That's a dumb bird.

Or a mother protecting her offspring.

[ConcordCowboy]

That's a Mocker protecting his clutch. Brave is the work you're looking for there.

Or a mother protecting her offspring.

I'll give her one time to attack the killer...the second time...dumb.

[ConcordCowboy]

:lmao2:

Mockingbirds are very territorial .... their squawk sort of reminds me of the s-word. ;)

This poor burd made the mistake of being too close to the ground. What smarter birds do is fly from behind the cat and dive-bomb from a height and peck the cat's head until they give up.

Yes that would have been a much better tactic....and this cat owner approved...:D

[ConcordCowboy]

Sparrows(and Starlings) represent nonnative species introduced by well-meaning humans and this highlights the plague of introducing nonnative populations into an ecosystem.

They displace native species just as feral cats overrun their environments altering natural balance. This is the crux of the issue and nibbling around the edges of of arguments to rip apart proposed solutions fails to confront the larger fundamental issue on the table.

My last comment on the cat issue as it's run its course and I'm weary of it. But by all means tho y'all carry on.



You obviously don't have the stamina to keep up with a cat.

[jobberone]

My neighbors and I love that my cat kills mice and moles. He has a bell, so he doesn’t really get birds (at least not the smart ones) and we keep him inside during fletching season. He is not happy being inside all the time—never was, even before he got out for the first time. It something wired inside him, I think. Though, my wife parents and my parents both have had cats that do not want anything to do with the outside.

I think that is so interesting. I've had cats that ambushed the door and were out and about if you didn't watch them sooo closely. And I've had them that would go to an open door, look out, smell and then turn and run to hide. You have your mousers and those that run from one.

[speedkilz88]

I think that is so interesting. I've had cats that ambushed the door and were out and about if you didn't watch them sooo closely. And I've had them that would go to an open door, look out, smell and then turn and run to hide. You have your mousers and those that run from one.
We have humans like that too.

[WPBCowboysFan]

Another cat thread?

These cat threads are as annoying as the nuisance cats.

[Hopeuhavechange]

You obviously don't have the stamina to keep up with a cat.

Or, more properly framed: maybe we're all chasing our tail at this juncture...

[Denim Chicken]

I think that is so interesting. I've had cats that ambushed the door and were out and about if you didn't watch them sooo closely. And I've had them that would go to an open door, look out, smell and then turn and run to hide. You have your mousers and those that run from one.

Yep, that's how he got a taste for the outside. He hides under the blinds and makes a mad dash when you open the door. I slammed his tail in the door last year and almost cut the damn thing off. Cost me $300.

[TheCount]

I'll give her one time to attack the killer...the second time...dumb.

You're right. If only all mothers had Casey Anthony's mothering instincts instead, they'd live longer.

[ConcordCowboy]

You're right. If only all mothers had Casey Anthony's mothering instincts instead, they'd live longer.

She's doing her young no good at all by dying...cause now they most likely will die...which is what she was trying to avoid by doing what she did.

She was dumb for they way she went about attacking the cat...not for trying to defend her young.

[TheCount]

She's doing her young no good at all by dying...cause now they most likely will die...which is what she was trying to avoid by doing what she did.

She was dumb for they way she went about attacking the cat...not for trying to defend her young.

Well first of all, she's a bird, so OBVIOUSLY she's dumb. :laugh2:

That being said, I doubt she's run into many natural predators with the reflexes of a house cat, which is not a natural predator.

Another good example of why they should be kept inside. :D

[ConcordCowboy]

Well first of all, she's a bird, so OBVIOUSLY she's dumb. :laugh2:

That being said, I doubt she's run into many natural predators with the reflexes of a house cat, which is not a natural predator.

Another good example of why they should be kept inside. :D

I've seen plenty of smart birds.

I see them in my back yard giving crap to Dexter all the time.

The dumb ones are the ones who give him crap...then let their guard down and think he's going to forget about it. :p:

[speedkilz88]

They're bird brains!

[davidyee]

forgive one hand typing- are you suggesting the article is mostly/completely a fabrication? Why? I've seen unrelated studies suggest similar numbers for some time. A conspiracy afoot? Who is behind this campaign of propaganda?

I have seen what i believe to be healthy birds taken by cats and deposited around, usually on a porch, most frequently Mourning Doves who lack astute awareness of many other birds; also Robins protecting their brood. I know this fr observation. As for the Toxo disease rt I will have to look into it. I suspect much of that goes undetected or unreported.

Are you advocating for nonnative (but i repeat myself) feral cats..is that a good thing? And house cats should be left to take wild animals for sport and tossed aside when the become bored with the corpse? Oh, it's not really a problem in your view, or is exaggerated i gather. And there are drops in population certain birds which may not be wholly due to cats but they are a factor. Why not eliminate it? Not the cats but free ranging domestics and feral populations? Doesn't seem all that radical to me.

...about targeting feral cat populations given how much they actually help keep pest populations down in rural and abandoned areas.

Also the reduction of animal populations due to cats is no where near the proportion or tragedy that humans have.

If you want to watch actual horrific scenes of senseless avian death look no further than the disease culling wildlife mgmt has to do because of disease caused by congested numbers of birds in smaller restricted habitat forced by human encroachment.

Cats are a very small part of avian death equation and definitely one of the smaller problems in our society.

[Hopeuhavechange]

...about targeting feral cat populations given how much they actually help keep pest populations down in rural and abandoned areas.

Also the reduction of animal populations due to cats is no where near the proportion or tragedy that humans have.

If you want to watch actual horrific scenes of senseless avian death look no further than the disease culling wildlife mgmt has to do because of disease caused by congested numbers of birds in smaller restricted habitat forced by human encroachment.

Cats are a very small part of avian death equation and definitely one of the smaller problems in our society.

True. I well recognize the human toll on birds (and wildlife in general) thru expansion as well our structures well enough, but that's unstoppable. (Oh we can better design our towers, i think, a little smarter to minimize some collisions and surely safeguard windmills more intelligently)

I wouldn't go quite go so far as Sir David Attenborrough recently offered and call humans a "plague"...but on balance this scale is proportionally a larger issue on scale than the cat predation. But what is likely to be done about that? Nothing! We both know not only that but that the trend will only deteriorate.

But we can own responsibility for our cats. Not too much to expect, imo. And who wants large colonies of feral cats in urban areas? Not very many, that's why society rounds them up and destroys them immediately or allows them a few days and does the same for the unclaimed. This is not good.

[ethiostar]

http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo303/pumango/50.gif

[ConcordCowboy]

http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo303/pumango/50.gif

I've seen that before and it's hilarious.

[jubal]

I've seen plenty of smart birds.

I see them in my back yard giving crap to Dexter all the time.

The dumb ones are the ones who give him crap...then let their guard down and think he's going to forget about it. :p:

I wanted to say the same thing, just did not want to type it out, thanks. :D

[Faerluna]

https://www.alleycat.org/alley-cat-allies-responds-to-nature-studys-claims-on-cats-and-birds

BETHESDA, MD— Alley Cat Allies, the only national advocacy organization dedicated to the protection and humane treatment of cats, responded to a biased study on cats and wildlife published in the journal Nature, which it called a veiled promotion by bird advocates to ramp up the mass killing of outdoor cats.

“This study is part of a continuing propaganda campaign to vilify cats,” said Becky Robinson, president and co-founder of Alley Cat Allies. “It seems as if the authors landed on a conclusion first and then cherry-picked through studies to support it. Some of the research they cite is more than a half-century old. They even cite discredited researcher Nico Dauphine, who was convicted by a D.C. jury for trying to poison cats and then fired from her job at the Smithsonian. The researcher convicted of trying to poison cats worked for Marra, one of the authors of this study.”

“This so called ‘survey of research’ seems just another misguided attempt to draw attention to the decline of wildlife by manufacturing a fake debate. The study conveniently sidestepped the primary culprit of decline of wildlife populations which, of course, is human activity including habitat destruction.

“The authors also neglect to mention that their proposed ‘solution’ really endorses continuing the same failed policies of the last century which call for the mass killing of cats. Tens of millions of healthy cats have already been killed in animal pounds and shelters, at great taxpayer expense, without achieving anything. A policy of just more killing can never be the right answer,” she said.

Robinson noted that Trap-Neuter-Return (TNR) does work to end reproduction and to stabilize the population of feral cats, and that is why every year a growing number of communities turn to TNR as an innovative, compassionate and common-sense approach.

“Because of the success of TNR—which stabilizes and then reduces the population—places where there were once large colonies of feral cats have seen those colonies fade away. There is good reason for cities to change from ‘catch and kill’ to ‘neuter and return.’

“The threats to birds and wildlife with real impact—pollution and habitat fragmentation and destruction—are the ones without ‘easy’ answers,” said Robinson. “Americans should not be fooled by sensational headlines and bad science. Killing cats will not save species of birds or mammals.”

[Hopeuhavechange]

https://www.alleycat.org/alley-cat-allies-responds-to-nature-studys-claims-on-cats-and-birds

BETHESDA, MD— Alley Cat Allies, the only national advocacy organization dedicated to the protection and humane treatment of cats, responded to a biased study on cats and wildlife published in the journal Nature, which it called a veiled promotion by bird advocates to ramp up the mass killing of outdoor cats.

“This study is part of a continuing propaganda campaign to vilify cats,” said Becky Robinson, president and co-founder of Alley Cat Allies. “It seems as if the authors landed on a conclusion first and then cherry-picked through studies to support it. Some of the research they cite is more than a half-century old. They even cite discredited researcher Nico Dauphine, who was convicted by a D.C. jury for trying to poison cats and then fired from her job at the Smithsonian. The researcher convicted of trying to poison cats worked for Marra, one of the authors of this study.”

“This so called ‘survey of research’ seems just another misguided attempt to draw attention to the decline of wildlife by manufacturing a fake debate. The study conveniently sidestepped the primary culprit of decline of wildlife populations which, of course, is human activity including habitat destruction.

“The authors also neglect to mention that their proposed ‘solution’ really endorses continuing the same failed policies of the last century which call for the mass killing of cats. Tens of millions of healthy cats have already been killed in animal pounds and shelters, at great taxpayer expense, without achieving anything. A policy of just more killing can never be the right answer,” she said.

Robinson noted that Trap-Neuter-Return (TNR) does work to end reproduction and to stabilize the population of feral cats, and that is why every year a growing number of communities turn to TNR as an innovative, compassionate and common-sense approach.

“Because of the success of TNR—which stabilizes and then reduces the population—places where there were once large colonies of feral cats have seen those colonies fade away. There is good reason for cities to change from ‘catch and kill’ to ‘neuter and return.’

“The threats to birds and wildlife with real impact—pollution and habitat fragmentation and destruction—are the ones without ‘easy’ answers,” said Robinson. “Americans should not be fooled by sensational headlines and bad science. Killing cats will not save species of birds or mammals.”

https://www.alleycat.org/alley-cat-allies-responds-to-nature-studys-claims-on-cats-and-birds

BETHESDA, MD— Alley Cat Allies, the only national advocacy organization dedicated to the protection and humane treatment of cats, responded to a biased study on cats and wildlife published in the journal Nature, which it called a veiled promotion by bird advocates to ramp up the mass killing of outdoor cats.

“This study is part of a continuing propaganda campaign to vilify cats,” said Becky Robinson, president and co-founder of Alley Cat Allies. “It seems as if the authors landed on a conclusion first and then cherry-picked through studies to support it. Some of the research they cite is more than a half-century old. They even cite discredited researcher Nico Dauphine, who was convicted by a D.C. jury for trying to poison cats and then fired from her job at the Smithsonian. The researcher convicted of trying to poison cats worked for Marra, one of the authors of this study.”

“This so called ‘survey of research’ seems just another misguided attempt to draw attention to the decline of wildlife by manufacturing a fake debate. The study conveniently sidestepped the primary culprit of decline of wildlife populations which, of course, is human activity including habitat destruction.

“The authors also neglect to mention that their proposed ‘solution’ really endorses continuing the same failed policies of the last century which call for the mass killing of cats. Tens of millions of healthy cats have already been killed in animal pounds and shelters, at great taxpayer expense, without achieving anything. A policy of just more killing can never be the right answer,” she said.

Robinson noted that Trap-Neuter-Return (TNR) does work to end reproduction and to stabilize the population of feral cats, and that is why every year a growing number of communities turn to TNR as an innovative, compassionate and common-sense approach.

“Because of the success of TNR—which stabilizes and then reduces the population—places where there were once large colonies of feral cats have seen those colonies fade away. There is good reason for cities to change from ‘catch and kill’ to ‘neuter and return.’

“The threats to birds and wildlife with real impact—pollution and habitat fragmentation and destruction—are the ones without ‘easy’ answers,” said Robinson. “Americans should not be fooled by sensational headlines and bad science. Killing cats will not save species of birds or mammals.”

Any cat lobby can construct an argument/study impugning this study's motives which appear to discredit it. It's expected. However, nowhere does the study say cat predation is a panacea for preserving wildlife...doesn't seem to suggest it. It only highlights its particular impact. Numbers, we know, can be manipulated in either direction. The purpose here was to emphasize the cat's contribution to the larger problem. I agree that a comprehensive approach to the conservation of wildlife--esp birdlife- should have been included to demonstrate the scope of the problem. But as I mentioned earlier, does anyone here believe human encroachment will be halted? I don't. Does that mean we should wash our hands of any attempts to mitigate wildlife destruction wherever we can? And maybe tackle more serious threats in the distant future as attitudes change? I can't see the logic or compassion in not doing so.

"Killing cats will not save species of birds or mammals.”

Loved this strawman. Amusing, but discredits the piece. Should have prefaced it with "some say"... or "this notion..."

[Hopeuhavechange]

And another thing, this is my final final final word. As for our not seeing the landscape littered with dead birds- birds decompose inordinately snappily! I know this from direct observation time and again. We can happen along a dead bird one day and right quick we find nothing but a few feathers scattered about. And we must also account for prolific scavengers who do their thing if they act fast enuff. But let's leave Redskins fans out of this.

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

...Cats are a very small part of avian death equation and definitely one of the smaller problems in our society.

Ultimately it's what we humans do: deforesting the world to the point that in a century when we hear Dorothy exclaim: "Lions, Tigers, and Bears!" only bears might exist in the wild...hundred if not thousands of species will be extinct in the wild. :(

The stray dog and feral cat problem is a few people refusing to take responsibility to neuter their pets - if they did, your local PetsMart and Petco would not be crowded on Saturdays with volunteers giving their time to find homes for homeless pets.

Hate on cats if you find it to be therapeutic, but the truth is people are responsible for invasive species and upsetting Nature's balance

[tupperware]

Ultimately it's what we humans do: deforesting the world to the point that in a century when we hear Dorothy exclaim: "Lions, Tigers, and Bears!" only bears might exist in the wild...hundred if not thousands of species will be extinct in the wild. :(

The stray dog and feral cat problem is a few people refusing to take responsibility to neuter their pets - if they did, your local PetsMart and Petco would not be crowded on Saturdays with volunteers giving their time to find homes for homeless pets.

Hate on cats if you find it to be therapeutic, but the truth is people are responsible for invasive species and upsetting Nature's balance

Neutering animals isn't natures way of balancing anything.

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

^ neutering is not part of nature, but it's an adjustment for what we have done to alter it and the most humane way to make corrections for the damage we have done.

[TheCount]

What? Alleycat.com disagrees? Impossible. :laugh2:

Someone already made the point that even if the number is half or a third, it's still billions.

The idea that allowing your pet to roam outdoors and perhaps go feral has no impact is silly. Of course they do.

[burmafrd]

What? Alleycat.com disagrees? Impossible. :laugh2:

Someone already made the point that even if the number is half or a third, it's still billions.

The idea that allowing your pet to roam outdoors and perhaps go feral has no impact is silly. Of course they do.

so you just ignore that the study you love so much had a contributor that liked to poison cats and was discredited.

Not surprising

[TheCount]

so you just ignore that the study you love so much had a contributor that liked to poison cats and was discredited.

Not surprising

You've clearly confused this with a political thread.

[Faerluna]

You've clearly confused this with a political thread.

No, you're clearly being biased against proven facts. Hate cats all you want, because in my experience there is rarely a change of conviction for one that is clearly against feral cats, but ignoring the facts makes your position weak.

Organizations like ACA are going to be advocates for feral cats in the same way that any organization tries to present the truth and perspective about whatever cause they support.

Just cause you don't happen to believe it doesn't make their position it any less accurate.

[TheCount]

No, you're clearly being biased against proven facts. Hate cats all you want, because in my experience there is rarely a change of conviction for one that is clearly against feral cats, but ignoring the facts makes your position weak.

Organizations like ACA are going to be advocates for feral cats in the same way that any organization tries to present the truth and perspective about whatever cause they support.

Just cause you don't happen to believe it doesn't make their position it any less accurate.

You've confused my position. I'm not anti-cat (but I mean seriously, who is PRO feral cat?), I'm pro responsible pet ownership. There is a difference. I'd say the exact same thing to someone that lets their dog roam the neighborhood.

Ignoring the facts? That's a good one. :laugh2:

The idea that releasing a super predator into an ecosystem that isn't designed to handle it is not a big deal is pure fantasy.

[burmafrd]

You've confused my position. I'm not anti-cat (but I mean seriously, who is PRO feral cat?), I'm pro responsible pet ownership. There is a difference. I'd say the exact same thing to someone that lets their dog roam the neighborhood.

Ignoring the facts? That's a good one. :laugh2:

The idea that releasing a super predator into an ecosystem that isn't designed to handle it is not a big deal is pure fantasy.

you do realize that calling a common cat a super predator is kind of ridiculous, right?

But then I can see you are getting desperate

[TheCount]

you do realize that calling a common cat a super predator is kind of ridiculous, right?

But then I can see you are getting desperate

You super predator is simply a predator with no natural predators of its own. Even you, in all your keyboard clacking fury, are technically a super predator. Unless one counts logic and people skills as predators, in which case you'd be in trouble.

[vta]

You've confused my position. I'm not anti-cat (but I mean seriously, who is PRO feral cat?), I'm pro responsible pet ownership. There is a difference. I'd say the exact same thing to someone that lets their dog roam the neighborhood.

Ignoring the facts? That's a good one. :laugh2:

The idea that releasing a super predator into an ecosystem that isn't designed to handle it is not a big deal is pure fantasy.

Cat's are part of the ecosystem. Our decision to make pets of certain animals throughout history doesn't negate that they are natural creatures and we are in fact causing an imbalance in nature by viewing them as our possessions. It's gone on so long that we no longer view them as natural animals.

[TheCount]

Cat's are part of the ecosystem. Our decision to make pets of certain animals throughout history doesn't negate that they are natural creatures and we are in fact causing an imbalance in nature by viewing them as our possessions. It's gone on so long that we no longer view them as natural animals.

I'm not sure what a natural animal is, but being a "natural animal" and being a natural part of an ecosystem are not necessarily the same thing. A boa constrictor is a "natural animal", that doesn't mean it belongs in Central Park.

[Faerluna]

You've confused my position. I'm not anti-cat (but I mean seriously, who is PRO feral cat?), I'm pro responsible pet ownership. There is a difference. I'd say the exact same thing to someone that lets their dog roam the neighborhood.

Ignoring the facts? That's a good one. :laugh2:

The idea that releasing a super predator into an ecosystem that isn't designed to handle it is not a big deal is pure fantasy.

I am pro-feral cat. Obviously. And of course, responsible pet ownership, which goes without saying.

And yes, ignoring the fact that the contributors to the report are people that have been tried and convicted of killing feral cats is willful ignorance of bias. I would hope that the previous statement wouldn't need a restated example to be clear.

[vta]

I'm not sure what a natural animal is, but being a "natural animal" and being a natural part of an ecosystem are not necessarily the same thing. A boa constrictor is a "natural animal", that doesn't mean it belongs in Central Park.

Well transplanting animals into an alien environment isn't the same thing. Cats are indigenous to North America and would have been around regardless of the decision to start using them as pets. Boa's belong in more tropical climates and wouldn't be here if not for people bringing them up here.

[burmafrd]

You super predator is simply a predator with no natural predators of its own. Even you, in all your keyboard clacking fury, are technically a super predator. Unless one counts logic and people skills as predators, in which case you'd be in trouble.

personal insults are the last resort of the feebleminded. You need to find your village- they miss you. Need someone to make fun of.

[TheCount]

I am pro-feral cat. Obviously. And of course, responsible pet ownership, which goes without saying.

And yes, ignoring the fact that the contributors to the report are people that have been tried and convicted of killing feral cats is willful ignorance of bias. I would hope that the previous statement wouldn't need a restated example to be clear.

I must have missed the part where everyone involved in the report was convicted of killing cats. Even the person you mentioned wasn't convicted of killing cats. You calling me biased is a classic pot meets kettle situation.

Pro feral and pro reponsible pet ownership is the epitome of hypocrisy. It's like being anti legalization of marijuana while keeping a grow house.

[Faerluna]

I must have missed the part where everyone involved in the report was convicted of killing cats. Even the person you mentioned wasn't convicted of killing cats. You calling me biased is a classic pot meets kettle situation.

Pro feral and pro reponsible pet ownership is the epitome of hypocrisy. It's like being anti legalization of marijuana while keeping a grow house.

Oh, poisoning, my sincere apologies. Because she was certainly just trying to give them an upset stomach and had probably never done anything like that before.

And its more like I'm all for responsible parenting, but I'm not going to be against kids in foster homes just because they don't live with their biological parents. It's not the kids fault that their parents were incapable idiots.

Nice try, though. Or something.

[Signals]

http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo303/pumango/50.gifLMAO I had to watch that about 20 times. :lmao2:

[speedkilz88]

You super predator is simply a predator with no natural predators of its own. Even you, in all your keyboard clacking fury, are technically a super predator. Unless one counts logic and people skills as predators, in which case you'd be in trouble.

There are other predators that can kill cats (usually the old and young ones)
Off the top of my head:

Coyotes
Wolves
Dogs
Owls
Raccoons
Oppossums

[vta]

Raccoons
Oppossums

If we're going to start a war on animals, I'd rather we start with these two lousy creatures. :)

Opossums have some diseased mouths from all the garbage and road kill they eat and raccoons are just vicious and often enough rabid.

[TheCount]

Oh, poisoning, my sincere apologies. Because she was certainly just trying to give them an upset stomach and had probably never done anything like that before.

And its more like I'm all for responsible parenting, but I'm not going to be against kids in foster homes just because they don't live with their biological parents. It's not the kids fault that their parents were incapable idiots.

Nice try, though. Or something.

Yeah, this has pretty much run its course. I'm not going to argue over crazy people that poison animals, but nice attempt to derail.

There are other predators that can kill cats (usually the old and young ones)
Off the top of my head:

Coyotes
Wolves
Dogs
Owls
Raccoons
Oppossums

There are certainly animals that could kill a cat. I didn't say they were immortal, although they certainly may be.. :laugh2:

Come to think of it, I'm not even sure cats are technically predators (I think they are) since some kill for sport, not for consumption. I actually wonder if that behavior changes once they go feral.

[Faerluna]

I actually wonder if that behavior changes once they go feral.

Cats do not "go feral," they are born feral. If a domesticated cat gets out and lives outside they will be scared and may act like a feral cat, but once they are trapped they typically revert to trusting people rather quickly.

Feral cats do not have that trust, and while they are capable of developing it, it is a long process that required tremendous patience and highly unlikely.

[Hoofbite]

Solution seems simple. Unleash more dogs and let nature take it's course.

[vta]

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae72/vta84/abaa-ugly-cat_zpsf9f14a2c.jpg

[TheCount]

Cats do not "go feral," they are born feral. If a domesticated cat gets out and lives outside they will be scared and may act like a feral cat, but once they are trapped they typically revert to trusting people rather quickly.

Feral cats do not have that trust, and while they are capable of developing it, it is a long process that required tremendous patience and highly unlikely.

If there's one thing I know, it's when to exit an argument with a cat lady over cats. Thanks for the conversation.

[burmafrd]

If there's one thing I know, it's when to exit an argument with a cat lady over cats. Thanks for the conversation.

don't let the doorknob hit your butt on the way out

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae72/vta84/abaa-ugly-cat_zpsf9f14a2c.jpg

Is that Ross Purro? :D

[davidyee]

Pro feral and pro reponsible pet ownership is the epitome of hypocrisy. It's like being anti legalization of marijuana while keeping a grow house.

...in the earth's history all cats were feral.

As domestication and the symbiotic relationship between certain species developed, namely dogs and cats, there was still considerable feral populations throughout the world and very little responsible pet ownership.

It's only with the advancement of the concept of personal ownership of land that we are having discussions about stray and feral animals.

Oddly enough most of the colonies of feral cats I have seen or participated in the maintenance of are primarly in areas you wouldn't choose or desire to live in.

What the feral cats do their as a service to society is quite exceptional. They provide a balance to a "unnatural" habitat; abandoned warehouse districts, abandoned bldgs, empty fields, etc in regards to pests.

Without the existence of feral cat populations being supported by many volunteers throughout NA we would have a considerable rodent issue.

I'm certain we can all make a case for a larger cat population vs larger rodent numbers.

Neuter and release feral populations are another useful way for humans to manage the world they have created.

Let's not criticize one of the few good countermeasures we have come up with.

[Kilyin]

ITT - cats are predators...

so are undomesticated dogs.

Carry on.

[Faerluna]

...in the earth's history all cats were feral.

As domestication and the symbiotic relationship between certain species developed, namely dogs and cats, there was still considerable feral populations throughout the world and very little responsible pet ownership.

It's only with the advancement of the concept of personal ownership of land that we are having discussions about stray and feral animals.

Oddly enough most of the colonies of feral cats I have seen or participated in the maintenance of are primarly in areas you wouldn't choose or desire to live in.

What the feral cats do their as a service to society is quite exceptional. They provide a balance to a "unnatural" habitat; abandoned warehouse districts, abandoned bldgs, empty fields, etc in regards to pests.

Without the existence of feral cat populations being supported by many volunteers throughout NA we would have a considerable rodent issue.

I'm certain we can all make a case for a larger cat population vs larger rodent numbers.

Neuter and release feral populations are another useful way for humans to manage the world they have created.

Let's not criticize one of the few good countermeasures we have come up with.

Bingo!

[viman96]

Someone shared this with me and I instantly thought of this thread :)

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill

[5Stars]

You want these in our house?

QHFewEzJKqo

[davidyee]

Someone shared this with me and I instantly thought of this thread :)

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill

... I thought this could put a different twist to the perspective.

"Mice normally wait at least two weeks to a month between litters. A mouse can have anywhere from 12 to 24 litters in a single year.

With an average of 12 mice per litter, a single mouse can give birth to around 144 to 288 babies a year!"

So based on that how many mice are in the world at any given time? Can you count the grains of sand in your sandbox? That's what we start with and they can give 288 babies per year for half of them, if we assume 50% are females.

Right now the number of mice in continental North America is staggering. So much so that any attempt top find the stat is considered ridiculous cause the numbers are so huge.

How many? A billion? Four billion? If you took the present population of the United States and said loosely there is one mouse for every human. Which is a fallacy because there is way more. Then 315/2=157 million mice will become 450 billion in one year. At 84 million deaths per year it would take the entire US cats population almost 5300 years to eradicate the mice in the US.

Also your article gives unrealistic generalization of an average of two kills a week in the United States. This ignores the fact that much of the US is locked in a winter and most cats are very unsuccessful hunters in winter. Most are sitting at home in their couches.

I haven't even begun to put together the numbers for a common NA bird species such as the Sparrow.

Just sayin.

[DemonBlood]

If I can't naturally fly...Why should birds be able too? :mad:

[muck4doo]

I don't think my cat would leave the house even if I tried to get him to. He hangs around the food bowl and pantry all the time.