I'm officially.........

[Sarge]

I'm officially concerned over this AB situation and I think I am changing my mind about it after seeing what BrownSugar has stated in another post.

It appears some players are irritated with K. Johnson and his attitude, thus far.

Sorta just steps right in, like he owns the place, sorta attitude.

Everyone knows he's had problems everywhere else he has gone.

We were all hoping he would be a great mentor and team leader but it certainly appears that he and AB are oil and water. Speculation on my part, thus far.

however, this could very well turn out to be a disaster in the making.

I initially thought AB should be given the ax, and now I am not so sure.

Apparently, (and speculatively) KJ has gotten under AB's (and perhaps others) skin.

At a time when AB needs a real mentor, KJ apparently is NOT stepping up to the plate. It doesn't help that he isn't playing particularly well.

Perhaps Dale can enlighten us more on how the other players are relating to KJ.

I am NOT blaming this on KJ - just trying to get a feel for exactly why AB flipped his lid.

This AB scenario concerns me greatly.

I would hate to give AB the ax, then have continued problems with a veteran WR on the downside of his career.

No question AB needs to change his attitude, but there are questions in my mind that KJ needs an attitude adjustment as well and NOW, not later.

Not a good mix, to date, to say the least.

Again........I would hate to lose AB due in large part to his inability to get along with KJ, then have AB light it up elsewhere whilst KJ readies himself for retirement.

[LaTunaNostra]

Hey Sarge, we have no idea what KJ's input was in this. It could have been something as innocent as saying "why don't you try it this way?" and AB blew up on him. It also isn't clear if the first argument was with Haley or Key, Key could have been trying to play peacemaker with AB after he went off on Haley, for all we know.

It SOUNDS like one of those situations where an individual was ticked off and was going to let ANYONE around him get it, which is apparently what happened with Tuna.

The fact AB mixed it up with THREE different people is the telling point, imho.

Key's mouth is everywhere already but we just don't know what role he played in this.

[JohnsKey19]

I'm officially concerned over this AB situation and I think I am changing my mind about it after seeing what BrownSugar has stated in another post.

It appears some players are irritated with K. Johnson and his attitude, thus far.

Sorta just steps right in, like he owns the place, sorta attitude.

Everyone knows he's had problems everywhere else he has gone.

I think the AB situation will simmer down over time. But like you, I'm definitely concerned about Keyshawn coming in arrogant and brash as ever acting as if he owns Valley Ranch. That will definitely be an interesting development to watch throughout the summer and season.

Without even knowing what exactly happenned, I gotta believe Keyshawn's interaction with the whole AB thing Monday is what put Bryant over the edge. That's just my opinion.

[Sarge]

Hey Sarge, we have no idea what KJ's input was in this. It could have been something as innocent as saying "why don't you try it this way?" and AB blew up on him. It also isn't clear if the first argument was with Haley or Key, Key could have been trying to play peacemaker with AB after he went off on Haley, for all we know.

It SOUNDS like one of those situations where an individual was ticked off and was going to let ANYONE around him get it, which is apparently what happened with Tuna.

The fact AB mixed it up with THREE different people is the telling point, imho.

Key's mouth is everywhere already but we just don't know what role he played in this.

I am not blaming KJ, nor have I said what his involvement was in all of this, because I frankly don't know, as I have stated.

But, what is just as telling as AB mixing it up with 3 people... is KJ mixing it up with everyone in sight throughout the years. That's his history. That's what we know.

My point was NOT to place blame on KJ but to look at it from a different perspective.

These 2 players, together, might not be a good mix.

I never really gave that thought when KJ came on board. I was just hoping he could fit in well with BP and be a much needed mentor to AB.

I'm not so sure KJ is either mentor material or a good mix with AB.

That's the point of my post and my concern.

[BadKarma]

I'm a bit concerned as well. My take is that AB should have been afforded the opportunity to get more reps on the first squad.

Unforunately, this latest incident could potentially spark a division within this team. But I'm sure BP and the coaching staff will resolve this issue. I just think KJ should be a little more reserved instead of trying to be the center of attention. Then again, that's just KJ I guess.

Still - I'd hate to see AB go - he's young, talented and full of potential.

[LaTunaNostra]

I think Key can mentor a certain type of player very well. He actually did mentor in NY. Dedric Ward, and a QB, Ray Lucas, were two of his pet projects. A kid like Williams, or Smith, or Crayton, I don't see why not. Johnson helps everyone. The problem is he doesn't always wait to be asked. :D

He was excellent with Lucas, and mentored him as much as Vinnie did. Some of it was just confidence building based on his own ego "don't worry too much about accuracy, just get it near me and I will bring it in", but most of it was willingness to spend extra hours practicing and developing chemistry. Lucas has a personality evey bit as gregarious as Key's, had a relationship with Bill that trumped EVERYONE's in NY, but Key showed no rivalry. He took Ward under his wing as well, but that was mostly about showing Chrebet up, I think. After he was traded to Tampa, he would refer to Ward as "the best receiver currently on the Jets".

Guys with real heads on their shoulders like Vin and Richie and Curtis had no problems with him, and liked him a lot. He was VERY popular in the locker-room in NY. It was only Wayne he had the thing with.

[My Problem Is Obvious]

Keyshawn is accepted as being a great reciever no matter where he goes, was a #1 draft pick, has a Super Bowl ring on his finger, as well as a plethora of Pro Bowl appearances. He also happens to have a good working relationship with one of the greatest coaches of all time.

Antonio CRYant is an immature cry-baby Campo-era holdover coming off of a disappointing sophmore season and has proven exactly NOTHING in the NFL except that he has a temper, temper, teeeeemper.

I'd say somebody has a little more room to "chirp" in this situation, wouldn't you guys?

Antonio CRYant better start catching a few freaking balls before he starts talking about being the #1 reciever ANYWHERE, let alone here.

[Jon88]

He was VERY popular in the locker-room in NY. It was only Wayne he had the thing with.

That's interesting. Most would say it was Wayne who had to deal with Keyshawn.

[Jimz31]

I'm officially concerned over this AB situation and I think I am changing my mind about it after seeing what BrownSugar has stated in another post.

It appears some players are irritated with K. Johnson and his attitude, thus far.

Sorta just steps right in, like he owns the place, sorta attitude.

Everyone knows he's had problems everywhere else he has gone.

We were all hoping he would be a great mentor and team leader but it certainly appears that he and AB are oil and water. Speculation on my part, thus far.

however, this could very well turn out to be a disaster in the making.

I initially thought AB should be given the ax, and now I am not so sure.

Apparently, (and speculatively) KJ has gotten under AB's (and perhaps others) skin.

At a time when AB needs a real mentor, KJ apparently is NOT stepping up to the plate. It doesn't help that he isn't playing particularly well.

Perhaps Dale can enlighten us more on how the other players are relating to KJ.

I am NOT blaming this on KJ - just trying to get a feel for exactly why AB flipped his lid.

This AB scenario concerns me greatly.

I would hate to give AB the ax, then have continued problems with a veteran WR on the downside of his career.

No question AB needs to change his attitude, but there are questions in my mind that KJ needs an attitude adjustment as well and NOW, not later.

Not a good mix, to date, to say the least.

Again........I would hate to lose AB due in large part to his inability to get along with KJ, then have AB light it up elsewhere whilst KJ readies himself for retirement.

Nice post Sarge.

KJ does need to step up and be a mentor....something every veteran should be able to do. I seriously doubt that it will happen though. KJ isn't one that makes people better around him. Irvin was that type of player. Irvin had his problems, but I could see Irvin mentoring someone before I could ever see KJ doing it.

Without KJ on this team, would this have happened? Maybe, maybe not. AB was pretty even tempered for the most part last year. When he had his blow-ups, it was 2 years ago. Reports were, if I remember correctly, that he wasn't very receptive to some mentoring in his rookie year. I could be wrong about that, but when you looked at his blow-ups two years ago, where were the other receivers? They weren't near him....the WR coach was trying to calm him down. He blows up this year, KJ would just exacerbate the problem, IMO. He'd probably come over and tell him to "Quit crying!". Not exactly something as competitive as AB is would handle too very well, nor would most people.

His reported throwing his stuff back at BP wasn't too smart and I don't think even Dennis Rodman would do that, but who knows.

KJ was a bad signing IF he is going to be a problem with other players. If he was just playing around with AB, KJ needs to know when to play around and when not to. He needs to be able to read the other guys a little bit better, plus, it's not like he didn't know that AB was super competitive and short-fused to begin with.

I'm not laying the blame at KJ, just wondering if this couldn't have been the scenario.

[LaTunaNostra]

That's interesting. Most would say it was Wayne who had to deal with Keyshawn.
It was Wayne who had to deal with Key, who was so jealous of the love Chrebet inspired, he nicknamed WC "the mascot".

In Sept 2000, the Jets played the Bucs in Ttampa. Key had been traded to TB in the offseason. Key hosted a dinner in Tampa and invited Jets players to attend. The fact that they did surprised and annoyed many Jets fans. But they did not realize that tho they did might not have loved Key, his team-mates did.

Wayne did not attend.

But he got the satisfaction of his team winning, even tho he was a just a lil " flashlight" according to Key, while Key was a "star lighting up the sky" one who went home with an L, and a very bruised ego. ;)

[Rude]

I think KJ is bad for this team. I believe the rumors are true about bryant not being fond of KJ, remember KJ has a bad repution wherever he goes and he really has never gotten along with the recievers on his team. How dare KJ talk smack in his book about Wayne Crebet or how dare KJ for screaming at coach Gruden (same as Bryant). Everywhere KJ is at, some form of drama takes place with him.

If I were Bryant, I sure as hell would be pissed if KJ is getting more reps then him (if this is true). Doesn't bill play the best players? So why is one player getting more reps? Is it because he is a parcells player?


Ok, go ahead and Flame away :cool:

[LaTunaNostra]

. KJ isn't one that makes people better around him..

Are you kidding, Jim?

He makes EVERYONE around him better, or at least look better.

He makes stars out of talent like Vinnie T and Wayne Chrebet, and successes out of kids like Lucas, who was known by Tuna's own coaching staff as "Bill's Folly".

He took almost as much pressure off the QBs as Curtis Martin himself, and the wideout across from him is truely blessed, because he can expect to see single man coverage when KJ is on the field. He makes the running game look better because he blocks like a maniac and has a possession ball game like a tight end.
He brings a wco type of short game to the table and an intermediate receiving game that an O like Tuna's really needs.

I can't speak to who he made look better in Tampa Bay, but in NY it was everyone involved in the O.
THAT is why Bill wants him here.

Who has AB ever made look better? He hasn't even made himself look good.

AB has a long way to go if he raelly thinks he has earned the right to start over Keyshawn, OR Terry. That'll be the day you see interceptions because Keyshawn has given up on a route or gotten knocked off it. He might drop a pass, all receivers do, but he'll make up for it before the day is out, not compound it with another three drops. And he'll PUNISH defenders, not blanch at the sight of them.

[Jon88]

It was Wayne who had to deal with Key, who was so jealous of the love Chrebet inspired, he nicknamed WC "the mascot".

In Sept 2000, the Jets played the Bucs in Ttampa. Key had been traded to TB in the offseason. Key hosted a dinner in Tampa and invited Jets players to attend. The fact that they did surprised and annoyed many Jets fans. But they did not realize that tho they did might not have loved Key, his team-mates did.

Wayne did not attend.

But he got the satisfaction of his team winning, even tho he was a just a lil " flashlight" according to Key, while Key was a "star lighting up the sky" one who went home with an L, and a very bruised ego. ;)

It really makes me lose respect for Parcells when I hear this is "one of his guys." He may play hard, but overall, he's not good for the team.

[LaTunaNostra]

It really makes me lose respect for Parcells when I hear this is "one of his guys."
Something tells me Bill will live.

[Jon88]

Something tells me Bill will live.

And some people will still worship him.

[LaTunaNostra]

And some people will still worship him.
That is most certainly correct!

[thor_01]

I am not blaming KJ, nor have I said what his involvement was in all of this, because I frankly don't know, as I have stated.

But, what is just as telling as AB mixing it up with 3 people... is KJ mixing it up with everyone in sight throughout the years. That's his history. That's what we know.
My point was NOT to place blame on KJ but to look at it from a different perspective.

These 2 players, together, might not be a good mix.

I never really gave that thought when KJ came on board. I was just hoping he could fit in well with BP and be a much needed mentor to AB.

I'm not so sure KJ is either mentor material or a good mix with AB.

That's the point of my post and my concern.

imho you don't know nothing unless you were there at the time the situation took place, otherwise everything you are going on are interpretation and hearsay, so there is no direct evidence you are submitting that KJ has ever been the problem and not just a participant............

having said that all the rest of your conjecture is pure speculation on your part and accusatory without any justification, imho you should defer to Parcells who was there and wait to see what comes if any before leaping to conclusions you have no basis of proof for...............

[Nors]

It really makes me lose respect for Parcells when I hear this is "one of his guys." He may play hard, but overall, he's not good for the team.

How is KJ bad for this offense? Isn't this the offense that sucks? Killing us, why we only won 10 games was Zimmers D?

Key is bringing some Vet leadership. This outburst is 100% on AB's shoulder. Lets stop blaming Key - This AB acting up is a real, real issue. He better get it straightened out or he's going to be "the man" at a corner bar in Miami.

[Sarge]

imho you don't know nothing unless you were there at the time the situation took place, otherwise everything you are going on are interpretation and hearsay, so there is no direct evidence you are submitting that KJ has ever been the problem and not just a participant............

having said that all the rest of your conjecture is pure speculation on your part and accusatory without any justification, imho you should defer to Parcells who was there and wait to see what comes if any before leaping to conclusions you have no basis of proof for...............

What part about "I'm not blaming KJ" didn't you understand?

:rolleyes:

[Godfather]

Keyshawn is a trouble maker.... he looking back saying whatever whatever.... that was so unnecessary...

[Jon88]

How is KJ bad for this offense? Isn't this the offense that sucks? Killing us, why we only won 10 games was Zimmers D?

Key is bringing some Vet leadership. This outburst is 100% on AB's shoulder. Lets stop blaming Key - This AB acting up is a real, real issue. He better get it straightened out or he's going to be "the man" at a corner bar in Miami.

I said he's bad for this team. He'll certainly help the offense, but I think he'll do more harm than good, overall.

[Nors]

Keyshawn is a trouble maker.... he looking back saying whatever whatever.... that was so unnecessary...

Parcells went out and got him, to Parcells he's not an issue.

Yahoo "Antonio+Bryant+trouble" He's got a long list of issues like this. AB needs to step up and publicly apologize to teamates, coaches and Parcells!

[jobberone]

What part about "I'm not blaming KJ" didn't you understand?

:rolleyes:

I'm not sure any of it was taken as directed, Sarge. I agree with you that it is interesting to conjecture that there could be a potential problem between AB and KJ. Did I get it? You're kool man. I'm outta here.

[thor_01]

What part about "I'm not blaming KJ" didn't you understand?

:rolleyes:

the part i highlighted in red for you, or are you as color blind as you are prone to jumping to conclusions.......................

[Sarge]

I'm not sure any of it was taken as directed, Sarge. .

Certainly not by Thor.

;)

[LaTunaNostra]

Parcells went out and got him, to Parcells he's not an issue.

Yahoo "Antonio+Bryant+trouble" He's got a long list of issues like this. AB needs to step up and publicly apologize to teamates, coaches and Parcells!

If something like this had happened with a Jason Witten, I'd be looking for an instigator.

With an Antonio Bryant, it's self explanatory.

Key is annoying already with his limelight hogging. It is understandable that AB would feel in some way threatened by Key's closeness to Bill,

But anyone with half a brain would have gotten it thru his thick skull BILL PLAYS THE BEST PLAYER. Anyone with character would be hell bent on winning that job, and looking like a man when he was doing it.

I didn't see Jamar Martin blowing up when Richie got many more plays than he did last year. Now Bil has brought in this Barnes guy, so there is a "past" there, and this guy is supposedly a mean blocker.

But why am I NOT waiting for Jamar to explode and make an arse of himself?

Life wasn't exactly all milk and honey for Andre Gurode when Bill pulled him and put Young in at guard last year. Now he's got Petersen and even Lehr to worry about. I guess that means explosion from him too.

Same goes for Jason. He must be very upset Bill called the rookie TE Ryan, "a tough Irish kid". That sounds like favoritism to me. Expect a brawl tomorrow!

I have more respect for Tham who preferred to leave than compete with Jones, then for Bryant who did nothing last year and gripes he should be starting.

Troy at least had the balls to put himself out there on the open market.

But I guess we can imagine why AB wouldn't be hot to make the same move!

[TruBlueCowboy]

Keyshawn Johnson sure is the scapegoat in this incident for a lot of fans. How about we keep the blame on the player who threw a temper tantrum and challenged his coach's authority?

[Rude]

Keyshawn Johnson sure is the scapegoat in this incident for a lot of fans. How about we keep the blame on the player who threw a temper tantrum and challenged his coach's authority?

Didnt keyshawn do that too? Yup he did last year

[LaTunaNostra]

Keyshawn Johnson sure is the scapegoat in this incident for a lot of fans. How about we keep the blame on the player who threw a temper tantrum and challenged his coach's authority?
The language Jennifer FE use in her article today to describe the roles of Keyshawn and Haley was that both were "imploring" AB to stop b*tching about practice reps. Not arguing with him. It was when Bill came over to end it that AB freaked.

[Chuck 54]

I'm officially concerned over this AB situation and I think I am changing my mind about it after seeing what BrownSugar has stated in another post.

It appears some players are irritated with K. Johnson and his attitude, thus far.

Sorta just steps right in, like he owns the place, sorta attitude.

Everyone knows he's had problems everywhere else he has gone.

We were all hoping he would be a great mentor and team leader but it certainly appears that he and AB are oil and water. Speculation on my part, thus far.

however, this could very well turn out to be a disaster in the making.

I initially thought AB should be given the ax, and now I am not so sure.

Apparently, (and speculatively) KJ has gotten under AB's (and perhaps others) skin.

At a time when AB needs a real mentor, KJ apparently is NOT stepping up to the plate. It doesn't help that he isn't playing particularly well.

Perhaps Dale can enlighten us more on how the other players are relating to KJ.

I am NOT blaming this on KJ - just trying to get a feel for exactly why AB flipped his lid.

This AB scenario concerns me greatly.

I would hate to give AB the ax, then have continued problems with a veteran WR on the downside of his career.

No question AB needs to change his attitude, but there are questions in my mind that KJ needs an attitude adjustment as well and NOW, not later.

Not a good mix, to date, to say the least.

Again........I would hate to lose AB due in large part to his inability to get along with KJ, then have AB light it up elsewhere whilst KJ readies himself for retirement.

SArge...KJ isn't going to mentor or help anyone but himself. When you think you're as good as he thinks he is, but you actually don't have the skills or athletic ability to be anywhere near the top of your game any longer, you aren't going to help a young talented kid who could probably take your spot if he simply got his head on straight...KJ is going to do whatever he can to sabotage everyone but himself.

AB still has a problem, but he certainly has no veteran at his position mentoring him...Personally, I think they need to play his butt off and let him use up that energy on the field.

I still think KJ will give us more of a 3rd down and short type WR than we've had in the past, but I've never been thrilled with his pickup...he won't get close to 1000 yards and he won't score td's. At this point, he's just a guy, but a guy Parcells likes.

[Chuck 54]

And some people will still worship him.

I'm not one of them...the sooner he builds this team from what guys like Campo and Switzer did to it and leaves, the better I'll like it.

I'll be ready for the new regime....I respect Parcells history, but I don't and won't ever like him as the coach of my favorite team.