Question, did Keyshawn ever explode like this in his early years??

[ljs44]

Just wondering if anyone has read/heard about anything like this ever happening with Key in his first years with the Jets.

[Kangaroo]

Throw me the dam ball the book

[TruBlueCowboy]

I don't ever remember Keyshawn throwing his jersey in Parcell's face and then having to be held back so he couldn't throw down. I don't ever remember Michael Irvin doing that. Nor Drew Pearson. Antonio screwed up big time.

[Doomsday101]

Throw me the dam ball the book

Did you read the book? besides the title

[BrAinPaiNt]

I don't ever remember Keyshawn throwing his jersey in Parcell's face and then having to be held back so he couldn't throw down. I don't ever remember Michael Irvin doing that. Nor Drew Pearson. Antonio screwed up big time.


Irvin did not go after a coach...but then again he did go after a player with a pair of scissors.....people either tend to forget that, or just brush it under the rug.

[Doomsday101]

Irvin did not go after a coach...but then again he did go after a player with a pair of scissors.....people either tend to forget that, or just brush it under the rug.

I loved Irvin but face it being busted and suspended by the league was a lot worse than this little temper tantrum from Bryant, the loss of Irvin had a lot to do with the Cowboys not making it back to the super bowl.

[LaTunaNostra]

Just wondering if anyone has read/heard about anything like this ever happening with Key in his first years with the Jets.

He got mouthy on the sidelines on a few occasions. But it was always very brief. Key would stand alongside Bill and slightly to the back and start running his mouth. You could see by body language he was griping, (once I recall it was about a defnder he could have beaten but didn't) but when Bill was ready to shut his fool mouth up, he only had to BEGIN to turn his body in Key's direction. Then you saw a fast clam up.

They were very close. It was Parcells who told KJ that getting married was the "right thing to do" . Key married his pregnant girlfriend shortly therefter.It wasn't the morality issue with Tuna...it was knowing young single rich football players in Manhattan were just slightly more of a target than young married rich ones. He wanted his players HOME at night, with "no lives". ;)

But never never anything remotely like an agressive scene requiring security, and never anything like what Key pulled with Gruden, patronizingly patting Jon on the head on the sidlelines, or getting in his ear constantly barking.

I think Gruden was right to deactivate and get rid of Key for his insubordination. Even if Key never went so far as to throw a jersey in his face. That's the comparison that is relevant to me...that a Pro Bowl, Super Bowl ring wearing player could be completely turned loose, (Bucs would have released him if Dallas didn't trade for him) with great financial "loss", because the player didn't show proper respect to the authority of the head coach..

Any player is expendable. And that's how an organization has to look at it.

[TruBlueCowboy]

Irvin did not go after a coach...but then again he did go after a player with a pair of scissors.....people either tend to forget that, or just brush it under the rug.

C'mon now. There is no way in hell "scissorgate" compares to what Bryant did. I wish Bryant's squabble had been some little vet seniority fight like that because then we wouldn't have to worry about losing a talented player like Bryant.

[BrAinPaiNt]

C'mon now. There is no way in hell "scissorgate" compares to what Bryant did. I wish Bryant's squabble had been some little vet seniority fight like that because then we wouldn't have to worry about losing a talented player like Bryant.


Cutting a guy with scissors does in no way in hell compare?

WOW what have we come to when throwing a jersey at someone who threw it at you first...does not compare to someone going after another with scissors.

Well I guess it does not compare because I do not see a jersey inflicting bodily damage like scissors could.

No you know why people act like it is no big difference...is because everyone liked Irvin and he went after a nobody...even if it was with scissors.

While AB went after the coach.

Either way I would rather have AB throwing a jesery at me...compared to Irvin coming at me with scissors.

I think people need to take off the blinders and realized that what AB done...was in NO WAY in the same league as what Irvin did, not just to his team mate...but his team with his off the field troubles as well....difference is that everybody loved Irvin while he played.

[Jimz31]

Cutting a guy with scissors does in no way in hell compare?

WOW what have we come to when throwing a jersey at someone who threw it at you first...does not compare to someone going after another with scissors.

Well I guess it does not compare because I do not see a jersey inflicting bodily damage like scissors could.

No you know why people act like it is no big difference...is because everyone liked Irvin and he went after a nobody...even if it was with scissors.

While AB went after the coach.

Either way I would rather have AB throwing a jesery at me...compared to Irvin coming at me with scissors.

I think people need to take off the blinders and realized that what AB done...was in NO WAY in the same league as what Irvin did, not just to his team mate...but his team with his off the field troubles as well....difference is that everybody loved Irvin while he played.

I read it as he was saying that "scissorgate" was alot worse than what Antonio did. With this I agree.

I still can't wait for the first press conference where this whole thing will be "cleared up".....or at least the Valley Ranch spin on it. All that we are hearing now is a bunch of rumors at this point.....give me the straight stuff! :mad:

[BrAinPaiNt]

I read it as he was saying that "scissorgate" was alot worse than what Antonio did. With this I agree.

I still can't wait for the first press conference where this whole thing will be "cleared up".....or at least the Valley Ranch spin on it. All that we are hearing now is a bunch of rumors at this point.....give me the straight stuff! :mad:


Well I had to read it twice to make sure...but when he said this...

" I wish Bryant's squabble had been some little vet seniority fight like that because then we wouldn't have to worry about losing a talented player like Bryant."

It became clear, at least to me, that he thought it was just a little fight compared to what Irvin did....hey maybe I am reading it wrong....but if so he sure has an odd way of saying it in that post.

[LaTunaNostra]

Did you read the book? besides the title
I hope he didn't waste his time.

That was possibly the worst sports book idea ever concocted. In addtiion to the lack of substance (non stop bragging about zero accomplishments) the publisher saw fit to offer a little gimmick.

The book was printed, the first edition at least - I haven't seen subsequent ones, if there were any,

in different fonts. You were actually reading like this.

I suppose they were trying to CAUSE dyslexia. :D

[TruBlueCowboy]

Well I had to read it twice to make sure...but when he said this...

" I wish Bryant's squabble had been some little vet seniority fight like that because then we wouldn't have to worry about losing a talented player like Bryant."

It became clear, at least to me, that he thought it was just a little fight compared to what Irvin did....hey maybe I am reading it wrong....but if so he sure has an odd way of saying it in that post.

Sure it was minor compared to the Bryant incident. I don't care if Irvin used scissors, fists or guns with a teammate, you just don't challenge the coach the way Bryant did. We can try and justify it all we want with previous bad behavior but Irvin never challenged any coaches the way Bryant did. There's a big difference between getting into a squabble with your teammates and the head coach. And Irvin had some awful coaches after the Jimmy Johnson years. Even with Switzer, Gailey and company, he still had more respect for the coach than Bryant.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Sure it was minor compared to the Bryant incident. I don't care if Irvin used scissors, fists or guns with a teammate, you just don't challenge the coach the way Bryant did. We can try and justify it all we want with previous bad behavior but Irvin never challenged any coaches the way Bryant did. There's a big difference between getting into a squabble with your teammates and the head coach. And Irvin had some awful coaches after the Jimmy Johnson years. Even with Switzer, Gailey and company, he still had more respect for the coach than Bryant.


Sorry to say...but that is warped IMO.

So you do not mind if Irvin took scissors to a team mate....did coke off the field, got in trouble with hookers, gave the whole team a black eye....but you say what Bryant did is worse?

WOW...take off the glory day glasses off and just think of what you are saying.

[TruBlueCowboy]

Sorry to say...but that is warped IMO.

So you do not mind if Irvin took scissors to a team mate....did coke off the field, got in trouble with hookers, gave the whole team a black eye....but you say what Bryant did is worse?

WOW...take off the glory day glasses off and just think of what you are saying.

None of what Irvin did had ANYTHING to do with football. Irvin was a reckless party animal off the field but he was all business in practice and on the field. Same for LT with Parcells. Antonio Bryant on the other hand started complaing about his practice reps and got into a fight with the COACH because of football matters. That's a huge difference and it also shows that Bryant may never get his act together. It's not the PC thing to say, but I don't care what these guys do off the field. I'd like to think they all kiss babies and donate time to charity but just like any field, there are a lot of bad apples. The most I can ask for is that they have their act together when it comes to football. And Bryant doesn't. Irvin did.

[BrAinPaiNt]

None of what Irvin did had ANYTHING to do with football. Irvin was a reckless party animal off the field but he was all business in practice and on the field. Same for LT with Parcells. Antonio Bryant on the other hand started complaing about his practice reps and got into a fight with the COACH because of football matters. That's a huge difference and it also shows that Bryant may never get his act together. It's not the PC thing to say, but I don't care what these guys do off the field. I'd like to think they all kiss babies and donate time to charity but just like any field, there are a lot of bad apples. The most I can ask for is that they have their act together when it comes to football. And Bryant doesn't. Irvin did.

None of what Irvin did had ANYTHING to do with football???

Are you crazy?

He attacked a team mate...THAT has to do with football.

All of the crazy stuff he did off the field (and others) lead to JJ to pass on Moss and go two years of drafting the first round pick based on Character more then anything because the cowboys had such a black eye.

His actions IMO was one of the many things that contributed to the Cowboys getting in the slump they were in the few years prior to Parcells taking over.

JJ's ego and not willing to get good coaches, salary cap problems, JJ trying for one last grasp at the ring instead on reloading, and Drafting...the drafting part is three parts to the problem IMO.

1. Drafting for depth instead of future starters and in some cases trading down to do so.

2. JJ just doing terrible drafting.

3. JJ trying to change the bad image of the cowboys off the field problems in which Irvin was a major part of, by drafting character guys first instead of talent guys first.


Look I loved Irvin...but let's not make him out to be some saint that did not hurt the team.

I have no problem with someone saying what AB did was wrong...but let's not make what Irvin did on and off the field just be considered nothing in comparision....and I think the reason some do that is because he was one of the triplets in the glory 90s superbowl years.

[TruBlueCowboy]

None of what Irvin did had ANYTHING to do with football???

Are you crazy?

He attacked a team mate...THAT has to do with football.

All of the crazy stuff he did off the field (and others) lead to JJ to pass on Moss and go two years of drafting the first round pick based on Character more then anything because the cowboys had such a black eye.

His actions IMO was one of the many things that contributed to the Cowboys getting in the slump they were in the few years prior to Parcells taking over.

JJ's ego and not willing to get good coaches, salary cap problems, JJ trying for one last grasp at the ring instead on reloading, and Drafting...the drafting part is three parts to the problem IMO.

1. Drafting for depth instead of future starters and in some cases trading down to do so.

2. JJ just doing terrible drafting.

3. JJ trying to change the bad image of the cowboys off the field problems in which Irvin was a major part of, by drafting character guys first instead of talent guys first.


Look I loved Irvin...but let's not make him out to be some saint that did not hurt the team.

I have no problem with someone saying what AB did was wrong...but let's not make what Irvin did on and off the field just be considered nothing in comparision....and I think the reason some do that is because he was one of the triplets in the glory 90s superbowl years.

I agree that I'm probably coming across as too much of a homer for Irvin but I still think there's a huge difference between Bryant and Irvin.

Irvin eventually hurt the team but not intentionally. I'm sure Irvin wasn't planning on getting busted. :p Irvin, though, was always business on the field and in practice. You can say what you want about his off the field activites but you would never catch irvin not being a team player and throwing a jersey and trying to fight Landry, Johnson, Switzer or Gailey. Sorry, but I think Bryant should be off the team already. He's lost me as a fan for life, even if Parcells does decide to keep him.

[Erik_H]

Cutting a guy with scissors does in no way in hell compare?

WOW what have we come to when throwing a jersey at someone who threw it at you first...does not compare to someone going after another with scissors.

Well I guess it does not compare because I do not see a jersey inflicting bodily damage like scissors could.

No you know why people act like it is no big difference...is because everyone liked Irvin and he went after a nobody...even if it was with scissors.

While AB went after the coach.

Either way I would rather have AB throwing a jesery at me...compared to Irvin coming at me with scissors.

I think people need to take off the blinders and realized that what AB done...was in NO WAY in the same league as what Irvin did, not just to his team mate...but his team with his off the field troubles as well....difference is that everybody loved Irvin while he played.

Of course, that's goin on the assuption that you know what happened with "scissorgate".

Personally I don't know what happened. The reports varied from a slip and a nick while cutting hair, to Friday the 13th part 97.

From goin through all these reports I came away with the feeling that it involved a sort of hazing incident type thing, where a scuffle while cutting hair led to a player getting cut.

Apparently, you know more about it to qualify that Irvin actually came at someone with scissors and stabbed them. I'd like to know where you get your info.

Seems that there are two sides of the fence with this. One side believes that there was a dangerous and near deadly incident that was successfully covered-up to save Irvin's @ss. The other side thinks that it was an unusual occurance that was blown-up by the various media outlets who love a good story, especially ones that can paint the Cowboys (or anyone, for that matter) in a bad light.

So, we're on different sides of the fence with this one. Fine with me.

The only thing that ties these two completely different incidents together is that both situations are juicy forum fodder in which the actual facts will be very difficult to gather.

Outside of that, I just don't see a valid comparison. There's no proof about what Irvin may have done with these scissors, and with that, I don't see how something that can be construed as a something that typically goes on with most Football teams (hazing) with publically disrepecting the Head Coach.

Unquestioned authority is one of the most (if not the most) important aspect of coaching. For a player who have proven very little to call out a Coach like BP in front of the team is a big deal.

Personally, I'd like to think that it can eventually be patched up and that AB will stay with the team, but to think that this incident is far less disruptive to the team (not real-life, but the team) than Irvin's trangressions is wrong IMO.

Irvin's made mistakes, without a doubt, but his on-field play, his intensity on the sidelines and his work-ethic in practice MORE than made up for it. Irvin's fire helped make this team in the early 90's. We've got 3 rings to support that argument.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I agree that I'm probably coming across as too much of a homer for Irvin but I still think there's a huge difference between Bryant and Irvin.

Irvin eventually hurt the team but not intentionally. I'm sure Irvin wasn't planning on getting busted. :p Irvin, though, was always business on the field and in practice. You can say what you want about his off the field activites but you would never catch irvin not being a team player and throwing a jersey and trying to fight Landry, Johnson, Switzer or Gailey. Sorry, but I think Bryant should be off the team already. He's lost me as a fan for life, even if Parcells does decide to keep him.


In some twisted way I think bill liked it....now I am sure he was pissed at the time but after thinking about it I think he realized the kid is young and was mad because he was not getting the time to display his abilities.

It is clear that AB has worked very hard in the offseason so he is not just screwing around and not feeling the need not to practice (ala D.Ross who was sent packing pretty quickly just for saying he did not feel like he needed to run...nowhere near as bad as the confrontation with Bill and AB).

I think Bill likes ABs intensity, desire and the fire in him....he just needs AB to find out that those things need to be harnessed and not just blow up all the time when things do not go his way.

I really think Bill likes that intensity...he just has to get AB to stick his finger up his own nose and hit that reset button.

I also think Bill is giving AB the time to cool off, apologize and then decide what they will do to him in the form of discipline.

I think if Bill thought this was as bad as others do....AB would be off the team plain and simple.

Remember D.Ross did much less and he was sent packing...and our CB corp was not that great at the time as far as depth...just like our WR corp is not that great as far as dept goes.

[TruBlueCowboy]

Good post Erik H. I agree with your points. As far as "scissorgate" details, I think someone did eventually spill the beans. I remember reading an article after the fact that covered more details than we previously knew but I wouldn't be the right person to tell you what they were. Scissors or no scissors, a fight with teammates over a haircut is stupid, but it has nothing to do with football.

[Doomsday101]

In some twisted way I think bill liked it....now I am sure he was pissed at the time but after thinking about it I think he realized the kid is young and was mad because he was not getting the time to display his abilities.

It is clear that AB has worked very hard in the offseason so he is not just screwing around and not feeling the need not to practice (ala D.Ross who was sent packing pretty quickly just for saying he did not feel like he needed to run...nowhere near as bad as the confrontation with Bill and AB).

I think Bill likes ABs intensity, desire and the fire in him....he just needs AB to find out that those things need to be harnessed and not just blow up all the time when things do not go his way.

I really think Bill likes that intensity...he just has to get AB to stick his finger up his own nose and hit that reset button.

I also think Bill is giving AB the time to cool off, apologize and then decide what they will do to him in the form of discipline.

I think if Bill thought this was as bad as others do....AB would be off the team plain and simple.

Remember D.Ross did much less and he was sent packing...and our CB corp was not that great at the time as far as depth...just like our WR corp is not that great as far as dept goes.

I agree with you.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Of course, that's goin on the assuption that you know what happened with "scissorgate".

Personally I don't know what happened. The reports varied from a slip and a nick while cutting hair, to Friday the 13th part 97.

From goin through all these reports I came away with the feeling that it involved a sort of hazing incident type thing, where a scuffle while cutting hair led to a player getting cut.

Apparently, you know more about it to qualify that Irvin actually came at someone with scissors and stabbed them. I'd like to know where you get your info.

Seems that there are two sides of the fence with this. One side believes that there was a dangerous and near deadly incident that was successfully covered-up to save Irvin's @ss. The other side thinks that it was an unusual occurance that was blown-up by the various media outlets who love a good story, especially ones that can paint the Cowboys (or anyone, for that matter) in a bad light.

So, we're on different sides of the fence with this one. Fine with me.

The only thing that ties these two completely different incidents together is that both situations are juicy forum fodder in which the actual facts will be very difficult to gather.

Outside of that, I just don't see a valid comparison. There's no proof about what Irvin may have done with these scissors, and with that, I don't see how something that can be construed as a something that typically goes on with most Football teams (hazing) with publically disrepecting the Head Coach.

Unquestioned authority is one of the most (if not the most) important aspect of coaching. For a player who have proven very little to call out a Coach like BP in front of the team is a big deal.

Personally, I'd like to think that it can eventually be patched up and that AB will stay with the team, but to think that this incident is far less disruptive to the team (not real-life, but the team) than Irvin's trangressions is wrong IMO.

Irvin's made mistakes, without a doubt, but his on-field play, his intensity on the sidelines and his work-ethic in practice MORE than made up for it. Irvin's fire helped make this team in the early 90's. We've got 3 rings to support that argument.


You are right...we do not know the FACTs behind the whole scissors thing...however I just do not believe it was just a hazing thing that was an accidental cut....they went into damage mode as soon as it happened and kept very quiet about it.

But once again we do not know the facts on that...at least I do not.

The last part of your post....most of it could be said of AB....He has made his mistakes....he has some serious intensity and work ethic in practice as shown by this offseason and wanting more reps (remember Irvin always wanted the ball as well).

Thing is AB needs to grow up some...he needs to get his head straight....now will he ever get 3 superbowl rings...who knows...I would hope so.

[TruBlueCowboy]

In some twisted way I think bill liked it....now I am sure he was pissed at the time but after thinking about it I think he realized the kid is young and was mad because he was not getting the time to display his abilities.

It is clear that AB has worked very hard in the offseason so he is not just screwing around and not feeling the need not to practice (ala D.Ross who was sent packing pretty quickly just for saying he did not feel like he needed to run...nowhere near as bad as the confrontation with Bill and AB).

I think Bill likes ABs intensity, desire and the fire in him....he just needs AB to find out that those things need to be harnessed and not just blow up all the time when things do not go his way.

I really think Bill likes that intensity...he just has to get AB to stick his finger up his own nose and hit that reset button.

I also think Bill is giving AB the time to cool off, apologize and then decide what they will do to him in the form of discipline.

I think if Bill thought this was as bad as others do....AB would be off the team plain and simple.

Remember D.Ross did much less and he was sent packing...and our CB corp was not that great at the time as far as depth...just like our WR corp is not that great as far as dept goes.

At first, with no word out of Valley Ranch, I thought it was a good thing too and deemed well for AB's future. But now that its going on even longer and the Cowboys are making moves like the signing of Dedric Ward with no comment, I think it's not good for Bryant's future. At this point, I think it's probably a little bit better than 50% odds that Bryant is traded or cut.

I want AB to succeed too but I just don't think it's intensity when you decide to get into a fist fight with a coach after throwing your jersey at his face. It's just stupidity to me and the symptoms of someone who dropped far in the draft because of attitude problems. Let's get rid of all the Campo rejects and build with team players.

[Doomsday101]

At first, with no word out of Valley Ranch, I thought it was a good thing too and deemed well for AB's future. But now that its going on even longer and the Cowboys are making moves like the signing of Dedric Ward with no comment, I think it's not good for Bryant's future. At this point, I think it's probably a little bit better than 50% odds that Bryant is traded or cut.

I want AB to succeed too but I just don't think it's intensity when you decide to get into a fist fight with a coach after throwing your jersey at his face. It's just stupidity to me and the symptoms of someone who dropped far in the draft because of attitude problems. Let's get rid of all the Campo rejects and build with team players.

If Parcells wanted him gone he would have been released already.

[TruBlueCowboy]

If Parcells wanted him gone he would have been released already.

If the trade rumors are correct, the only reason the Cowboys are hanging on to him is to find a good draft pick.

[Doomsday101]

If the trade rumors are correct, the only reason the Cowboys are hanging on to him is to find a good draft pick.

True if that is a true report. Thing is no one from the Cowboys organization is saying anything at all pro or con on Bryant. If they end up trading him then they feel that is the best thing for the team but by the same token if they keep AB then again they feel that is the best for the team. Sorry but with so little info coming out of Valley Ranch it is hard to know what is going on but what ever may happen I'm just glad it is not just a knee jerk reaction, you expect it from fans but I do not expect that from Parcells