Henson will never make it in the NFL (unpopular opinion)

[Chuck 54]

I was actually responding to a Hostile post in another thread, but I thought you guys would enjoy getting riled over this opinion, so I started a new thread here.

I write this as my honest and true opinion, but I also know it will get everyone's blood pumping, and we need that to get through Wednesday.

"I'll be brutally honest too then, and I have absolutely nothing to base my opinion on other than NFL history, past and recent. I don't think Henson will ever prove to be much better than Hutch...in fact, I think he's going to suck butt, never amount to half the QB CArter is, which is only a little more than 1/2 a QB...there, I said it :eek: and I'm sure all the Henson lovers, like the Hutch lovers, will accuse me of being a Carter lover or a negative fan, but history is on my side...forget all the crap about Henson's ability.

Ability doesn't make an NFL QB...many of the most physically gifted QB's to come out of 4 year college programs in the last 10 years have gone bust because they still couldn't cut it. I'll present the same argument I used for Hutch...never in the history of the NFL has a player ever dropped totally out of football for a few years and come back to be a player, probably not at any position and certainly not at QB...the very argument for why a RB with a better college background than Henson must play football this year, even in Canada or semi-pro to have any shot at making it in the future in the NFL (Clarett) is the same logical argument for why Henson won't make it. When something has never happened in the history of the game, I tend to believe it's not going to happen for the first time in Dallas just because we want it to.

We gambled with that 3rd round pick...I don't have a problem with a gamble like that when we are so short on a decent QB...Carter is a viable guy who will be up and down, but is our best shot at winning. Vinnie? Please, don't insult my intelligence, or again, history, by telling me he can be a winning QB for the Dallas Cowboys. Henson? a rookie QB who played 8 college games and has not been in any type of football for several years...hope all you want, love what you saw those 8 games back in the day, but it ain't gonna happen.

That's why I support Carter, because he is the best QB on our team in my opinion...I think all the others are simply a joke...are we better with CArter, Vinnie and Henson than we were with Carter, Hutch, and Romo? Of course, but don't delude yourself into thinking that means we become a much better team and prepared for the future. Vinnie is not the future and will never take this team to the playoffs...period. Henson will never be our star QB because he's not going to cut it after so long away...even if he's better than Hutch, that's not saying much...Chad, the favorite former baseballer of another year couldn't even cut it in Europe. Suppose Henson does eventually look like a QB in the NFL in 2-3 years, do you really think he'll buck history and have a Marino type first year as a starter???

Nope...I'll take the abuse for this opinion, but Carter is the best Qb on this team and will probably continue so until we actually draft one or bring in a veteran starter that still has his prime...however, that's not saying much, and that's why the Cowboys will regret for years that they passed on Leftwich in order to get a good CB and continue to gamble on striking gold at QB...Sorry, all I see is Pyrite.

[blindzebra]

I was actually responding to a Hostile post in another thread, but I thought you guys would enjoy getting riled over this opinion, so I started a new thread here.

I write this as my honest and true opinion, but I also know it will get everyone's blood pumping, and we need that to get through Wednesday.

"I'll be brutally honest too then, and I have absolutely nothing to base my opinion on other than NFL history, past and recent. I don't think Henson will ever prove to be much better than Hutch...in fact, I think he's going to suck butt, never amount to half the QB CArter is, which is only a little more than 1/2 a QB...there, I said it :eek: and I'm sure all the Henson lovers, like the Hutch lovers, will accuse me of being a Carter lover or a negative fan, but history is on my side...forget all the crap about Henson's ability.

Ability doesn't make an NFL QB...many of the most physically gifted QB's to come out of 4 year college programs in the last 10 years have gone bust because they still couldn't cut it. I'll present the same argument I used for Hutch...never in the history of the NFL has a player ever dropped totally out of football for a few years and come back to be a player, probably not at any position and certainly not at QB...the very argument for why a RB with a better college background than Henson must play football this year, even in Canada or semi-pro to have any shot at making it in the future in the NFL (Clarett) is the same logical argument for why Henson won't make it. When something has never happened in the history of the game, I tend to believe it's not going to happen for the first time in Dallas just because we want it to.

We gambled with that 3rd round pick...I don't have a problem with a gamble like that when we are so short on a decent QB...Carter is a viable guy who will be up and down, but is our best shot at winning. Vinnie? Please, don't insult my intelligence, or again, history, by telling me he can be a winning QB for the Dallas Cowboys. Henson? a rookie QB who played 8 college games and has not been in any type of football for several years...hope all you want, love what you saw those 8 games back in the day, but it ain't gonna happen.

That's why I support Carter, because he is the best QB on our team in my opinion...I think all the others are simply a joke...are we better with CArter, Vinnie and Henson than we were with Carter, Hutch, and Romo? Of course, but don't delude yourself into thinking that means we become a much better team and prepared for the future. Vinnie is not the future and will never take this team to the playoffs...period. Henson will never be our star QB because he's not going to cut it after so long away...even if he's better than Hutch, that's not saying much...Chad, the favorite former baseballer of another year couldn't even cut it in Europe. Suppose Henson does eventually look like a QB in the NFL in 2-3 years, do you really think he'll buck history and have a Marino type first year as a starter???

Nope...I'll take the abuse for this opinion, but Carter is the best Qb on this team and will probably continue so until we actually draft one or bring in a veteran starter that still has his prime...however, that's not saying much, and that's why the Cowboys will regret for years that they passed on Leftwich in order to get a good CB and continue to gamble on striking gold at QB...Sorry, all I see is Pyrite.

Henson can't make it because of being away for 3 years. Two words for you.

ROGER STAUBACH!

[CoCo1]

So let me get this straight. You think Carter is going to be cut or released before camp even opens? :D

[Juke99]

So, I won't bite....I'll just ask you to remember this thread.

There's no one on the planet who can call a QB a sure thing with any degree of accuracy. So, we'll all just wait and see. I think Henson is the real deal and will prove to be in the NFL as well.

My point of contention with you is this, why do you make the Henson comparison to Marino's first year, drawing the conclusion that he'll never have a first season like Marino...Yet, at the same time you talk of QC who in three seasons, hasn't yet had HALF the rookie season Marino had?

[Juke99]

Henson can't make it because of being away for 3 years. Two words for you.

ROGER STAUBACH!

He already conditioned that by saying "totally out of football" in anticipation of your response...which btw, is quite valid.

Also, it's not like we have a statistically valid sample of QB's who have been totally out of the game, from which we can draw any conclusions.

[Chuck 54]

Henson can't make it because of being away for 3 years. Two words for you.

ROGER STAUBACH!

Ding, Ding, Ding....you give the one and only example that I couldn't think of, but you have to admit, the NFL has changed a bit since Roger the Dodger, and last I looked Henson played 8 games as opposed to Roger winning the Heisman trophy. And you really had to go way way way back to find one, so yes, anything's possible, but I'd still say history is on my side, and I'd love to see this get a line in Vegas because I know which side I'd put my money on.

Nevertheless, I'm giving you big respect for at least coming up with an example rather than telling me about Henson and his 8 games at Michigan...lol.

I'll also remind you that it took Roger awhile to earn his spot in the NFL...he had to sit behind some other guys, and it took him two years before he could even convince Landry to start him over Craig Morton of all people.

[Chuck 54]

So, I won't bite....I'll just ask you to remember this thread.

There's no one on the planet who can call a QB a sure thing with any degree of accuracy. So, we'll all just wait and see. I think Henson is the real deal and will prove to be in the NFL as well.

My point of contention with you is this, why do you make the Henson comparison to Marino's first year, drawing the conclusion that he'll never have a first season like Marino...Yet, at the same time you talk of QC who in three seasons, hasn't yet had HALF the rookie season Marino had?

Good question...and Carter is NOT a good QB by the way, so don't throw him in my face...I'd prefer a real QB like Leftwich. My point was that it will be 2-3 years before Henson sees the field if he's lucky, and even then no one should expect him to have a Marino-like first year...Marino is one of the few NFL QBs to have immediate success as a starter, meaning even when he's ready to start, henson is unlikely to be ready to be the ANSWER...it will then take even more time. Not always, I'm just going by history.

[Rude]

Henson can't make it because of being away for 3 years. Two words for you.

ROGER STAUBACH!

3 words.......

Henson isn't Staubach!

[blindzebra]

He already conditioned that by saying "totally out of football" in anticipation of your response...which btw, is quite valid.

Also, it's not like we have a statistically valid sample of QB's who have been totally out of the game, from which we can draw any conclusions.

So I just imagined those pictures of Roger throwing the ball around in his navy uniform that we saw back in the 70's?

Or the fact that it is common for baseball players to warm up with a football, because it is heavier. Roger Clemens throws a football on his off days.

[Chuck 54]

He already conditioned that by saying "totally out of football" in anticipation of your response...which btw, is quite valid.

Also, it's not like we have a statistically valid sample of QB's who have been totally out of the game, from which we can draw any conclusions.

exactly...that's where history says Henson has his work cut out for him if he's to beat the trend that is the NFL archives.

[jterrell]

This isnt just unpopular isnt near insane.

Drew has alot of things going for him Hutchinson didnt, not the least of which is he that is a good QB. Hutch was fairly mediocre at Stanford while Henson completed like 70% of his passes at Michigan.

In baseball you have guys who throw real hard but always the same speed and without movement. Thats Hutch. Henson has that speed and than adds to it with a full repetoire. He is a real athlete. Not just a big arm.

Most of the better QBs recently have had some sort of downtime from the game. They played overseas or in the Arena league because they were out of a job on the street. They developed over time and this time around we have given the prospect time.

3 years ago Henson was a higher rated prospect than any QB in the country. He had been astonishingly good in his limited college time.

He may fail but all signs point to him being at least moderately successful. Dallas just drafted a RB and added 2 OL. The team should be set up for Henson in 2 years at the latest.

[blindzebra]

3 words.......

Henson isn't Staubach!

We don't know yet, now do we?

[Chuck 54]

So I just imagined those pictures of Roger throwing the ball around in his navy uniform that we saw back in the 70's?

Or the fact that it is common for baseball players to warm up with a football, because it is heavier. Roger Clemens throws a football on his off days.


hmmm...I didn't know baseball players warmed up by throwing a football...wow...okay, I change every opinion i have about NFL history and Henson...I think he'll start by game 8 this year and make the pro bowl next year.

[BrAinPaiNt]

So I just imagined those pictures of Roger throwing the ball around in his navy uniform that we saw back in the 70's?

Or the fact that it is common for baseball players to warm up with a football, because it is heavier. Roger Clemens throws a football on his off days.


If I remember Roger did attend some mini-camps or practices when allowed to do so while on leave from his military duties.

Not that that is a big thing....however he was not TOTALLY out of football during that time.

However to address waynes orginal post....it sounds about as crazy as the QC haters making silly opinions and trying to pass it off as fact. But hey that is just my opinion.

[InmanRoshi]

Jay Shroeder played minor league baseball for 3 years before deciding to go back to football full time. He started only one college game at QB for UCLA in 1980. He entered the NFL draft in 1984, and was drafted in the 3rd round by the Redskins. He sat out his rookie year behind Theismann, but was the team's fulltime starter by the end of his 2nd year after Theisman's broken leg. His third year in the league he threw for 4,000 yards and went to the Pro bowl. While not a Hall of Famer, he had a respectable 11 year career.

[Chuck 54]

This isnt just unpopular isnt near insane.

Drew has alot of things going for him Hutchinson didnt, not the least of which is he that is a good QB. Hutch was fairly mediocre at Stanford while Henson completed like 70% of his passes at Michigan.

In baseball you have guys who throw real hard but always the same speed and without movement. Thats Hutch. Henson has that speed and than adds to it with a full repetoire. He is a real athlete. Not just a big arm.

Most of the better QBs recently have had some sort of downtime from the game. They played overseas or in the Arena league because they were out of a job on the street. They developed over time and this time around we have given the prospect time.

3 years ago Henson was a higher rated prospect than any QB in the country. He had been astonishingly good in his limited college time.

He may fail but all signs point to him being at least moderately successful. Dallas just drafted a RB and added 2 OL. The team should be set up for Henson in 2 years at the latest.

It's easy to bash Chad now that we've seen him for the crappy footballer he is, but all of your arguments were made for Chad too...."he was a top prospect" "highly accurate" "could have been a top QB choice if he'd stuck with it" blah blah blah.

And comparing arms is silly, imo....in baseball, it was no contest...Chad had a 95 mph fastball and pitched 1/2 a season in the bigs with the Cardinals. Henson was a third baseman who never got out of the minors. Nope, Chad beats Henson and Carter in baseball...lol.

Henson should beat Chad in football, but he's going to have to to far far far better than that if he's going to be our superstar that replaces the less than average Carter...If Henson only turns out to be mediocre, he'll have still beaten the odds, but we won't be any better off as a team.

[Juke99]

exactly...that's where history says Henson has his work cut out for him if he's to beat the trend that is the NFL archives.


HUH?

What history?

There's not enough data to suggest any history.

It's a unique situation, which is exactly why no one can definitively state what will happen.

I will say that your opinion that Henson won't see the playing field for 2-3 years if "lucky" is way off base.

I'll take that bet in an instant.

And comparing Henson to Hutch simply because they were both baseball players who were out of football for a few years, is like comparing a Ferrari to my lawn mower because they both have four wheels and an engine.

I'm done. This is clearly one of those threads that are argumentative for it's own sake....I guess it's your 15 minutes of fame.

[Sarge]

3 words.......

Henson isn't Staubach!

Neither is Carter.

[blindzebra]

hmmm...I didn't know baseball players warmed up by throwing a football...wow...okay, I change every opinion i have about NFL history and Henson...I think he'll start by game 8 this year and make the pro bowl next year.

It's not like Henson or Staubach NEVER touched a football during their time away.

[lwehlers]

i also do not agree with this post. how do we know how good henson will be. he may be our franchise qb or not. i can not wait until preseason to see how henson looks. now as of right now i agree that carter is the best qb on this team now based on knowing the offense. i also agree that vinnie is just here as insurance and to help carter and henson improve and give a players view of what he sees on the field and what to expect. this is in my opinion is carters make or break season with this team. if he plays much better then last year then maybe we might have a franchise qb in carter. if he plays no better then last year then we need to give henson a shot or try to sign the best available qb on the free agent market. the draft does not look to promising the next couple of years for qbs.

[ABQCOWBOY]

3 words.......

Henson isn't Staubach!

Word games, I like these.

Six words, starts with you.....

Ends with... don't know what Henson is.

He could be the next Roger Staubach or he could be the next Jack Thompson. Nobody knows. That's what's so funny.

[BrAinPaiNt]

i also do not agree with this post. how do we know how good henson will be. he may be our franchise qb or not. i can not wait until preseason to see how henson looks. now as of right now i agree that carter is the best qb on this team now based on knowing the offense. i also agree that vinnie is just here as insurance and to help carter and henson improve and give a players view of what he sees on the field and what to expect. this is in my opinion is carters make or break season with this team. if he plays much better then last year then maybe we might have a franchise qb in carter. if he plays no better then last year then we need to give henson a shot or try to sign the best available qb on the free agent market. the draft does not look to promising the next couple of years for qbs.


Nice post and agree ....nice way to cut to the chase...especially since the original post was nothing more then a way to try to start a flame war.

Hmm...won't be long before this is on the smack talk forum...where it should have been started to begin with...as that was the intention.

[Rack Bauer]

Neither is Carter.


Of course Carter had to make his way into this eventhough the thread isn't about him. Can we discuss a QB other then Carter w/o any QC bashing/praising happening?


Henson isn't Staubach

Neither is Carter


How childish is that?


Romo isn't Staubach

Neither is Carter


Hutch isn't Aikman

Neither is Carter


Vinny isn't whoever

Neither is Carter



Hell, Carter isn't Carter

Neither is Carter.



Some people just can't discuss a QB w/o bringing up Carter (in a positive or negative manner).

[Juke99]

the original post was nothing more then a way to try to start a flame war.

Hmm...won't be long before this is on the smack talk forum...where it should have been started to begin with...as that was the intention.


On the NOSEY! :)

[LaTunaNostra]

Drew Henson couldn't possibly become a star. He's BILL'S guy, right Wayne? :p

Great discussion generating post, and agreed half-a-QB Q is currently the best option we've got. For this year. My only gripes about Vinnie coming in are not that he could or would beat out" Carter, but that his presence assuredly sets the Henson Coronation back a bit.

It will come tho, and Drew will be the real deal. I don't think the Clarett example very relevent...Maurice has to find a venue to play in next year, not because he won't be less a talent next April if he doesn't, but because he'll weigh 300 pounds if he doesn't. Henson has maintained his physique and conditioning whether in baseball or out.

"History" doesn't hold enough examples of "away from the gamers" to make any predictions. There are too few athletes who were top college talent and then took a hiatus to be able to judge. Maybe some guys who did their Mormon mission and a few military services, a la Staubach. A Mormon mission player search might turn up some gems.

Since quarterbacks are as much born as made, and Henson apparently kept himself in peak condiition, I think his journey to elite QB status will take no longer than a Chad Pennington, straight out of college did. Won't be any more tenuous or prolonged than a Carr, Palmer's, or Harrington's. In fact, I think it may be swifter due to DH's maturity. The only comparison I see relevant with Hutchinson is that the Cowboys learned their lesson re throwing quarterbacks into the fire too soon, and that lesson would apply were it Eli Manning or Philip Rivers here instead of Drew. It wasn't Hutch's time away from football did him in as much as what his talent level and potential was at Stanford, which was not what Henson's was at Michigan.

[Sarge]

how do we know how good henson will be. he may be our franchise qb or not.

Simple - you don't.

No one knows how any player will turn out.

It's all a gamble - much like the draft.

Period - end of story.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Of course Carter had to make his way into this eventhough the thread isn't about him. Can we discuss a QB other then Carter w/o any QC bashing/praising happening?


Henson isn't Staubach

Neither is Carter


How childish is that?


Romo isn't Staubach

Neither is Carter


Hutch isn't Aikman

Neither is Carter


Vinny isn't whoever

Neither is Carter



Hell, Carter isn't Carter

Neither is Carter.



Some people just can't discuss a QB w/o bringing up Carter (in a positive or negative manner).


Uh...if you do not think this thread had anything to do with QC...then you are not as keen as I have given you credit for.

This thread was because of QC and a veiled attempt to turn it around on the Henson people or so called QC haters....a thinly veiled attempt at that IMO.

[junk]

Jay Shroeder played minor league baseball for 3 years before deciding to go back to football full time. He started only one college game at QB for UCLA in 1980. He entered the NFL draft in 1984, and was drafted in the 3rd round by the Redskins. He sat out his rookie year behind Theismann, but was the team's fulltime starter by the end of his 2nd year after Theisman's broken leg. His third year in the league he threw for 4,000 yards and went to the Pro bowl. While not a Hall of Famer, he had a respectable 11 year career.


Good research and thanks for the info.

[zack]

Finally, someone has some balls to say that Henson isn't going to make it. I do agree with this opinion as well. Other people had mentioned that Roger Staubach did it. The NFL has changed leaps and bounds from those days. It has changed since Dan Marino was a rookie. That is why I highly doubt it that Henson makes it. Think of all of the 1st round draft picks spent on QB's. Many of them are gone.

I will say that QC is not the best QB in the NFL, maybe not the top 15, but he is the best on this team. He is better than anything we have. At least we won't have to see Henson play this year, wait, with the exception of preseason.

[Sarge]

I will say that QC is not the best QB in the NFL, maybe not the top 15, but he is the best on this team. He is better than anything we have.

We shall see.

[Rude]

Neither is Carter.
When did I or anyone say Carter was?


You always mention carter when no one is talking about him. Are you sure your not a Carter Lover and not a Hater?

[Hostile]

I was actually responding to a Hostile post in another thread, but I thought you guys would enjoy getting riled over this opinion, so I started a new thread here.

I write this as my honest and true opinion, but I also know it will get everyone's blood pumping, and we need that to get through Wednesday.

"I'll be brutally honest too then, and I have absolutely nothing to base my opinion on other than NFL history, past and recent. I don't think Henson will ever prove to be much better than Hutch...in fact, I think he's going to suck butt, never amount to half the QB CArter is, which is only a little more than 1/2 a QB...there, I said it :eek: and I'm sure all the Henson lovers, like the Hutch lovers, will accuse me of being a Carter lover or a negative fan, but history is on my side...forget all the crap about Henson's ability.

Ability doesn't make an NFL QB...many of the most physically gifted QB's to come out of 4 year college programs in the last 10 years have gone bust because they still couldn't cut it. I'll present the same argument I used for Hutch...never in the history of the NFL has a player ever dropped totally out of football for a few years and come back to be a player, probably not at any position and certainly not at QB...the very argument for why a RB with a better college background than Henson must play football this year, even in Canada or semi-pro to have any shot at making it in the future in the NFL (Clarett) is the same logical argument for why Henson won't make it. When something has never happened in the history of the game, I tend to believe it's not going to happen for the first time in Dallas just because we want it to.

We gambled with that 3rd round pick...I don't have a problem with a gamble like that when we are so short on a decent QB...Carter is a viable guy who will be up and down, but is our best shot at winning. Vinnie? Please, don't insult my intelligence, or again, history, by telling me he can be a winning QB for the Dallas Cowboys. Henson? a rookie QB who played 8 college games and has not been in any type of football for several years...hope all you want, love what you saw those 8 games back in the day, but it ain't gonna happen.

That's why I support Carter, because he is the best QB on our team in my opinion...I think all the others are simply a joke...are we better with CArter, Vinnie and Henson than we were with Carter, Hutch, and Romo? Of course, but don't delude yourself into thinking that means we become a much better team and prepared for the future. Vinnie is not the future and will never take this team to the playoffs...period. Henson will never be our star QB because he's not going to cut it after so long away...even if he's better than Hutch, that's not saying much...Chad, the favorite former baseballer of another year couldn't even cut it in Europe. Suppose Henson does eventually look like a QB in the NFL in 2-3 years, do you really think he'll buck history and have a Marino type first year as a starter???

Nope...I'll take the abuse for this opinion, but Carter is the best Qb on this team and will probably continue so until we actually draft one or bring in a veteran starter that still has his prime...however, that's not saying much, and that's why the Cowboys will regret for years that they passed on Leftwich in order to get a good CB and continue to gamble on striking gold at QB...Sorry, all I see is Pyrite.
It took me a while to find this Wayne. I was busy tilting at Windmills in the previous thread.

Okay, still brutally honest. I have no faith in Vinny. None, zero, zip, nada. Trying to assure me of anything about him will fall on deaf ears. I think signing him was a mistake. I think passing on Kerry Collins was a mistake. I think not drafting Leftwich was a mistake. Basically, from 2000 to 2003 I do not like even one single move this team has made at QB. Not one. The only guy in that time I am willing to give any slack to is...Tony Romo. Only because none of us have seen him really. If we cut him without ever seeing him my opinion will be so what?

Okay, without reading any further than your post I am quite sure the names Roger Staubach, Tommy Maddux, and Kurt Warner have all come up as guys out of football and on to successful.

Do I know Henson will be gold? Nope. However, I can honestly say that I like the odds. That is why he is my horse in the derby. Guys fail all the time. We've had three years of it as proof. He's the only QB on our roster right now that I put any hope in. Do I have faith in him? Not yet.

If he fails I will be just as harsh on him as I am on Hutch and Q.

[Sarge]

When did I or anyone say Carter was?


You always mention carter when no one is talking about him. Are you sure your not a Carter Lover and not a Hater?

Yep - you found me out.

:o

[Mike 1967]

If I were to allow every unsubtantiated opinion to get my blood boiling.....then I would have become a head case along time ago.....or at least died of a heart attack :)

The only unsubstantiated opinions that effect me are my wifes and my childrens.


Oh...and BTW....I totally disagree with your assesment. :D

[Juke99]

Yep - you found me out.

:o


The proverbial cat is out of the bag. Sarge is a closet QC lover. I kept your secret in confidence all these years. I think you'll lead a more productive, emotionally stable life now that you are out of the QC Closet....

Even though Quincy is no Staubach.

and Staubach is no Jack Klugman.

And....

[Portland Fanatic]

It took me a while to find this Wayne. I was busy tilting at Windmills in the previous thread.

Okay, still brutally honest. I have no faith in Vinny. None, zero, zip, nada. Trying to assure me of anything about him will fall on deaf ears. I think signing him was a mistake. I think passing on Kerry Collins was a mistake. I think not drafting Leftwich was a mistake. Basically, from 2000 to 2003 I do not like even one single move this team has made at QB. Not one. The only guy in that time I am willing to give any slack to is...Tony Romo. Only because none of us have seen him really. If we cut him without ever seeing him my opinion will be so what?

Okay, without reading any further than your post I am quite sure the names Roger Staubach, Tommy Maddux, and Kurt Warner have all come up as guys out of football and on to successful.

Do I know Henson will be gold? Nope. However, I can honestly say that I like the odds. That is why he is my horse in the derby. Guys fail all the time. We've had three years of it as proof. He's the only QB on our roster right now that I put any hope in. Do I have faith in him? Not yet.

If he fails I will be just as harsh on him as I am on Hutch and Q.

I like this post TH....I can say I agree with most of it except I personally think bringing in Vinnie was not a bad move, keeping in mind I prefered Collins when he was available, but that fact we brought a vet that can add value made me happy.

I feel the same about Henson...is he the answer? Man I sure hope so. I'm putting alot of faith that he is and will be the real deal. Until he proves it I can only hang my hat on hope and potential. Only time will tell at this point. Romo remains intriguing...will he ever be more then that to us...again only time will tell, but at the least he is another guy I'm rooting for that can be "The Answer" at the QB position.

[Sarge]

The proverbial cat is out of the bag. Sarge is a closet QC lover. I kept your secret in confidence all these years. I think you'll lead a more productive, emotionally stable life now that you are out of the QC Closet....

Even though Quincy is no Staubach.

and Staubach is no Jack Klugman.

And....

Freak.

;)

[Juke99]

Freak.

;)


I may be a freak but at least I am an OOTCF.

Hey, I haven't seen CBZ around, what's up?

[lkelly]

Although I'm not going to say that Henson is the most experienced QB ever, he didn't simply suit up for 8 games at Michigan and then just leave. He redshirted his whole freshman year, played in at least 8 games his soph. year (attempting 90 passes), then played in 9 games his junior year (posting great stats). As far as college experience, this doesn't exactly put him behind every other pro prospect. Henson technically could have come out after his reshirt soph. year (his junior year academically) and he would have been drafted.

It is the layoff that is the big question mark, but given the time and coaching he certainly has potential.

[Juke99]

It took me a while to find this Wayne. I was busy tilting at Windmills in the previous thread.

Okay, still brutally honest. I have no faith in Vinny. None, zero, zip, nada. Trying to assure me of anything about him will fall on deaf ears. I think signing him was a mistake. I think passing on Kerry Collins was a mistake. I think not drafting Leftwich was a mistake. Basically, from 2000 to 2003 I do not like even one single move this team has made at QB. Not one. The only guy in that time I am willing to give any slack to is...Tony Romo. Only because none of us have seen him really. If we cut him without ever seeing him my opinion will be so what?

Okay, without reading any further than your post I am quite sure the names Roger Staubach, Tommy Maddux, and Kurt Warner have all come up as guys out of football and on to successful.

Do I know Henson will be gold? Nope. However, I can honestly say that I like the odds. That is why he is my horse in the derby. Guys fail all the time. We've had three years of it as proof. He's the only QB on our roster right now that I put any hope in. Do I have faith in him? Not yet.

If he fails I will be just as harsh on him as I am on Hutch and Q.


I agree with most of this...I think signing Collins would have been a problem because he wasn't going to the bench happily any time soon. Vinnie of a few years ago might have been a decent signing but at this stage of the game, he has about as much mobility as an oak tree.

I still think he's a better passer than QC but at this stage, QC's mobility is crucial.

Henson...you know from day one, I have been high on his ability. Time will tell.

[Double Trouble]

Of course Carter had to make his way into this eventhough the thread isn't about him. Can we discuss a QB other then Carter w/o any QC bashing/praising happening?


Henson isn't Staubach

Neither is Carter


How childish is that?


Romo isn't Staubach

Neither is Carter


Hutch isn't Aikman

Neither is Carter


Vinny isn't whoever

Neither is Carter



Hell, Carter isn't Carter

Neither is Carter.



Some people just can't discuss a QB w/o bringing up Carter (in a positive or negative manner).The initial post brought Q into this, not the replies. You just don't want anything bad said about your hero.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Finally, someone has some balls to say that Henson isn't going to make it. I do agree with this opinion as well. Other people had mentioned that Roger Staubach did it. The NFL has changed leaps and bounds from those days. It has changed since Dan Marino was a rookie. That is why I highly doubt it that Henson makes it. Think of all of the 1st round draft picks spent on QB's. Many of them are gone.

I will say that QC is not the best QB in the NFL, maybe not the top 15, but he is the best on this team. He is better than anything we have. At least we won't have to see Henson play this year, wait, with the exception of preseason.

So what exactly does that mean Zack? He's not the best QB in the NFL. He's not even middle of the pack but he's the best QB we have on our team. What does that mean? Let me also say that QC being the best on our team is not a given. I think Vinny may be the best QB but that is debatable. Never the less, the fact that QC, even in your own opinion, isn't good enough to even be average should indicate why Henson should get every chance if he shows the ability. Wouldn't you agree?

[dallasfaniac]

I'm not going to read the whole thread with my boss standing over my shoulder, but I do have a couple comments:

I'm not interested in how many QBs have made it big after being out of football for over 3 years, I want to know how many SURE first round QBs turned down the NFL to play baseball.

It seems to me when we are talking about QBs being out so long, it was because they probably wouldn't have been that great in the first place, which is a major reason why no one has come back after so long.

[Tricked]

ok guys.. this QB discussion will go on and on and on and on because someone will always have a different opinion than you, whats the point of it... i personally havent watched college football so i wouldnt know how henson will do... i also do not really care who the starting QB is, because mr Bill Parcells will start the best man :D thats all that matters, Henson may or may not be a bust.. it doesnt really matter... what matters is that the STARTING QB's the best man, and doesnt make it because of his name and\or what the cowboys gave up for him... just my 2 cents

[Duane]

Jay Shroeder played minor league baseball for 3 years before deciding to go back to football full time. He started only one college game at QB for UCLA in 1980. He entered the NFL draft in 1984, and was drafted in the 3rd round by the Redskins. He sat out his rookie year behind Theismann, but was the team's fulltime starter by the end of his 2nd year after Theisman's broken leg. His third year in the league he threw for 4,000 yards and went to the Pro bowl. While not a Hall of Famer, he had a respectable 11 year career.

Thats's good info.

Chad Hennings had a pretty decent career with us in the '90s after his service in the Armed Forces as well.

[Chuck 54]

Jay Shroeder played minor league baseball for 3 years before deciding to go back to football full time. He started only one college game at QB for UCLA in 1980. He entered the NFL draft in 1984, and was drafted in the 3rd round by the Redskins. He sat out his rookie year behind Theismann, but was the team's fulltime starter by the end of his 2nd year after Theisman's broken leg. His third year in the league he threw for 4,000 yards and went to the Pro bowl. While not a Hall of Famer, he had a respectable 11 year career.

I salute you...wow...I had no idea Jay only had one college start...how the hell did he get drafted in round 3? Dayum.

Excellent response, and thanks for sharing.

[Chuck 54]

HUH?

What history?

There's not enough data to suggest any history.

It's a unique situation, which is exactly why no one can definitively state what will happen.

I will say that your opinion that Henson won't see the playing field for 2-3 years if "lucky" is way off base.

I'll take that bet in an instant.

And comparing Henson to Hutch simply because they were both baseball players who were out of football for a few years, is like comparing a Ferrari to my lawn mower because they both have four wheels and an engine.

I'm done. This is clearly one of those threads that are argumentative for it's own sake....I guess it's your 15 minutes of fame.

hmmm...clearly you don't know me...I certainly don't need to make ludicrous comments for my moments of fame...I'm much too old for that, and I'll stand by my opinion of Henson...I don't want to be right for the sake of being right..that hurts my favorite team, but most people thought the same opinion of Chad was crazy and ridiculous and many thought he was our future...I was right on that one, so even if I'm wrong here, i'm at 50 percent.

And to help you with the semantics, if there's no data, no record of guys doing what Henson is trying to do and finding success, that is history, don't you think? Baseball has been around a long time, and the NFL has been keeping pretty good records for quite some time, so if you can't find many guys who've become NFL stars going the route Henson's going, that's history on my side of this subject...isn't it?

[Hostile]

I like this post TH....I can say I agree with most of it except I personally think bringing in Vinnie was not a bad move, keeping in mind I prefered Collins when he was available, but that fact we brought a vet that can add value made me happy.

I feel the same about Henson...is he the answer? Man I sure hope so. I'm putting alot of faith that he is and will be the real deal. Until he proves it I can only hang my hat on hope and potential. Only time will tell at this point. Romo remains intriguing...will he ever be more then that to us...again only time will tell, but at the least he is another guy I'm rooting for that can be "The Answer" at the QB position.Don't get me wrong, I think we had to bring in a vet. I even think Vinny helps improve this team. I just am not happy with it because I do NOT believe this was our best move possible.

It's like being invited over to a friend's house for steaks and finding out it is shich kabobs. I still like the kabobs, but it just isn't steak.

[Chuck 54]

Neither is Carter.
Amen to that brother....what's sad is that even Rex Grossman, whom most of us loved to hate in college may turn out to be better in Chicago than any of our feeble attempts to find a needle in a haystack.

[HTownCowboysFan]

People who are chalking up Henson as "the QB of the future in Dallas" are clueless. This is not a knock on Henson at all, it is not a "QC" lover take. One would be clueless as well if they said "Henson is going to be a bust."

He has talent. He has potential. He is nothing more than another option at finding a franchise QB. That's it.

His contract does not dictate he play nor does his "draft status;" he's basically a 3rd round draft pick. He will have to beat out Quincy or whomever to play. He will not be handed the job.

Anything other than that is just not reality.

[Hostile]

I agree with most of this...I think signing Collins would have been a problem because he wasn't going to the bench happily any time soon. Vinnie of a few years ago might have been a decent signing but at this stage of the game, he has about as much mobility as an oak tree.

I still think he's a better passer than QC but at this stage, QC's mobility is crucial.

Henson...you know from day one, I have been high on his ability. Time will tell.
What is up Mr. Guitar Man?

I think passing on Collins because he might be upset when they hand the job to Henson is crazy. I also think this is exactly what the front office did.

So it gets his panties in a wad. So what? I still think he was the best option we've had for 2004 other than Henson himself, whom I still think will be the best QB on this team and will make people change long standing theories.

[Chuck 54]

Word games, I like these.

Six words, starts with you.....

Ends with... don't know what Henson is.

He could be the next Roger Staubach or he could be the next Jack Thompson. Nobody knows. That's what's so funny.

excellent point...so simple, yet true....which also points to the historical fact that any former collegiate QB, even one with a full, extensive college career, and even one who stays in the game and goes right to the pros still has a much higher % chance to be a failure than a star in the NFL at the QB position....no one would argue that fact, right? Yet they don't like the fact that I think Henson, who didn't have a full career or even a full season and who has been away from the game is much more likely to fail than to succeed in the NFL and little chance to be a real star QB.

It seems like the simplest logic to me, but most don't want to admit it. How can Henson's chances of success be even greater than most of the QB's who've gone from college to the pros over the years???

[Hostile]

People who are chalking up Henson as "the QB of the future in Dallas" are clueless.
At your service sir, and just as proud as the clueless who ride another fence around here. I don't know why people get so upset by these debates. This stuff is fun.

[zack]

So what exactly does that mean Zack? He's not the best QB in the NFL. He's not even middle of the pack but he's the best QB we have on our team. What does that mean? Let me also say that QC being the best on our team is not a given. I think Vinny may be the best QB but that is debatable. Never the less, the fact that QC, even in your own opinion, isn't good enough to even be average should indicate why Henson should get every chance if he shows the ability. Wouldn't you agree?

No I don't agree because it takes time to develop a QB plain and simple. Henson will not come in and play awesome right away. He may not play good in his second year. There isn't a lot of time for a guy to be successful. Basically time has been invested with QC as the QB, why in the hell would you start from scratch? I don't care about how much talent Henson has, he won't be good this year, it won't happen. I do have confidence that QC will have a better year next year. Not because I am a QC lover either. I am not here to make excuses, but he will improve now that he is in the same freakin system for more than one year. Anyone that has played one ounce of football would know that.

[RegiStar]

With all due respect, I'm sure you are just trying to get a rise. Drew coming out of college had a ton more upside then Chad. With that said, that is all!

[Chuck 54]

Nice post and agree ....nice way to cut to the chase...especially since the original post was nothing more then a way to try to start a flame war.

Hmm...won't be long before this is on the smack talk forum...where it should have been started to begin with...as that was the intention.


I"m shocked Brain...and disappointed that you would be such an *** as to suggest my purpose was to start a flame war...have I ever done that at either site? Never, and while I'm sure you've read my posts over the last couple of years, as I have yours, I don't think you know me well enough to read my mind...so you can now officially bite me.

And if you read the first few lines of the original post, while I admitted this would be fun, I also prefaced it with the fact that it is indeed my true opinion.

Again, how can you argue with facts? Every year QB's who played successfully in college and go straight to the pros fail in the NFL much more often than they succeed, and very few ever become stars, so any small bit of logic certainly supports the opinion that Henson has a much greater likelihood of being a failure in Dallas as a QB (and moreso with his absence from the game) than he does of being a success. I don't think he'll succeed.

How could any person with a brain suggest that Henson has a better chance of success than all the other QB's through the years in the NFL? My point is that it's silly to put one's hope in his hands and think he'll be the star of the future. I don't see that as starting a flame unless everyone reading it thinks Henson is very likely to be a star QB in the NFL.

You have a right to your opinion about my original post, but you are wrong, dead wrong.

[BHendri5]

At your service sir, and just as proud as the clueless who ride another fence around here. I don't know why people get so upset by these debates. This stuff is fun.


It is fun to me, even more so now.

[Hostile]

With all due respect, I'm sure you are just trying to get a rise. Drew coming out of college had a ton more upside then Chad. With that said, that is all!
Welcome to the forum. I see that is your first post. Please have thick skin. The Gators are biting today. :D

I hope you enjoy your time here.

[BHendri5]

No I don't agree because it takes time to develop a QB plain and simple. Henson will not come in and play awesome right away. He may not play good in his second year. There isn't a lot of time for a guy to be successful. Basically time has been invested with QC as the QB, why in the hell would you start from scratch? I don't care about how much talent Henson has, he won't be good this year, it won't happen. I do have confidence that QC will have a better year next year. Not because I am a QC lover either. I am not here to make excuses, but he will improve now that he is in the same freakin system for more than one year. Anyone that has played one ounce of football would know that.



Shhhh, don't say that. it makes too much sense.

[Juke99]

And to help you with the semantics, if there's no data, no record of guys doing what Henson is trying to do and finding success, that is history, don't you think? Baseball has been around a long time, and the NFL has been keeping pretty good records for quite some time, so if you can't find many guys who've become NFL stars going the route Henson's going, that's history on my side of this subject...isn't it?

No "history" would be on your side if many tried it and failed.

You seem to demean Henson because he actually has the athletic ability to have insired interest from two of the most famous franchises in DIFFERENT sports.

The reason why there isn't a history of what he is doing is because there aren't many guys with enough talent to do both.

How you could hold that AGAINST the guy is beyond me.

[Chuck 54]

Uh...if you do not think this thread had anything to do with QC...then you are not as keen as I have given you credit for.

This thread was because of QC and a veiled attempt to turn it around on the Henson people or so called QC haters....a thinly veiled attempt at that IMO.

That's the final straw, Mr Moderator...you can kiss my ***. But I'm sure your insulting and ignorant description of my post is okay because you are a moderator...I consider you denegration of my opinion to be a personal insult...it's one thing to offer support as some have of why Henson might have a chance, and I've responded with respect to their opinions, but you prefer to insult the original post and essentially call me a liar since the first post was described by me as my honest opinion.

Pathetic...and that's my final word.

[Chuck 54]

It took me a while to find this Wayne. I was busy tilting at Windmills in the previous thread.

Okay, still brutally honest. I have no faith in Vinny. None, zero, zip, nada. Trying to assure me of anything about him will fall on deaf ears. I think signing him was a mistake. I think passing on Kerry Collins was a mistake. I think not drafting Leftwich was a mistake. Basically, from 2000 to 2003 I do not like even one single move this team has made at QB. Not one. The only guy in that time I am willing to give any slack to is...Tony Romo. Only because none of us have seen him really. If we cut him without ever seeing him my opinion will be so what?

Okay, without reading any further than your post I am quite sure the names Roger Staubach, Tommy Maddux, and Kurt Warner have all come up as guys out of football and on to successful.

Do I know Henson will be gold? Nope. However, I can honestly say that I like the odds. That is why he is my horse in the derby. Guys fail all the time. We've had three years of it as proof. He's the only QB on our roster right now that I put any hope in. Do I have faith in him? Not yet.

If he fails I will be just as harsh on him as I am on Hutch and Q.

love the horse race analogy, hostile :)

I think I'm riding Smarty Jones and you are on one of the 30-1 shots simply because all college QB's are longshots, even the ones with more experience and more recent experience...however, we all know how that race turned out....lol. I hope for the Cowboys this one turns out that way as well.

[ABQCOWBOY]

excellent point...so simple, yet true....which also points to the historical fact that any former collegiate QB, even one with a full, extensive college career, and even one who stays in the game and goes right to the pros still has a much higher % chance to be a failure than a star in the NFL at the QB position....no one would argue that fact, right? Yet they don't like the fact that I think Henson, who didn't have a full career or even a full season and who has been away from the game is much more likely to fail than to succeed in the NFL and little chance to be a real star QB.

It seems like the simplest logic to me, but most don't want to admit it. How can Henson's chances of success be even greater than most of the QB's who've gone from college to the pros over the years???

I will tell you something Wayne. I respect you, not because I agree, because I think you are saying what you believe and you are trying to lagitamitly defend your position. You can't ask for anybody to do more then that.

I believe that Henson is the guy. I could definatly be wrong but I do believe. I am old enough to remember Henson while at Michigan and I saw something in him that made me a believer. I remember watching Roger Clemens at Texas and I knew he would be a great player. Same with Michael Jordan when he was at North Carolina. Same with Warren Sapp when he was at Miami even though lots of people were saying he would not be great. You could just tell there was something about them. They had something that you can't name but you can't ignore either. That is what I saw in Henson. I will not try to convince anybody of this but I believe he will be the eventual starter for Dallas.

[Chuck 54]

Although I'm not going to say that Henson is the most experienced QB ever, he didn't simply suit up for 8 games at Michigan and then just leave. He redshirted his whole freshman year, played in at least 8 games his soph. year (attempting 90 passes), then played in 9 games his junior year (posting great stats). As far as college experience, this doesn't exactly put him behind every other pro prospect. Henson technically could have come out after his reshirt soph. year (his junior year academically) and he would have been drafted.

It is the layoff that is the big question mark, but given the time and coaching he certainly has potential.

good facts on his college career...cudos

[OldButDeadly]

I haven't even read this thread...And I would be willing to bet that this
is a "Quincy is the man" thread....

Kev

[Rack Bauer]

I haven't even read this thread...And I would be willing to bet that this
is a "Quincy is the man" thread....

Kev



There's just as much "Quincy is Satan" in this thread as there is "Quincy is the man". That's the way they all are, haven't you figured that out by now?

[Chuck 54]

No "history" would be on your side if many tried it and failed.

You seem to demean Henson because he actually has the athletic ability to have insired interest from two of the most famous franchises in DIFFERENT sports.

The reason why there isn't a history of what he is doing is because there aren't many guys with enough talent to do both.

How you could hold that AGAINST the guy is beyond me.

Okay...I'll accept your point about history now that I understand what you're saying. I still think Henson has a very small chance of making it, but if I'm wrong and he's a star in a couple years, our Cowboys will have finally solved a glaring problem and done it as no other team could or would probably do it, with a player who hasn't played the game in some time.

Frankly, I think all the problems Chad has due to his layoff are essentially going to be seen in Henson to some degree as well.

It's an interesting subject to discuss as long as everyone supports his/her opinions, and it won't take long (this preseason) to at least get a glimpse of whether Henson is soon bound for stardom or whether the road to an NFL career will be a much tougher one for him than some think.

And soon we'll actually have more interesting things to discuss anyway :)

[Chuck 54]

I will tell you something Wayne. I respect you, not because I agree, because I think you are saying what you believe and you are trying to lagitamitly defend your position. You can't ask for anybody to do more then that.

I believe that Henson is the guy. I could definatly be wrong but I do believe. I am old enough to remember Henson while at Michigan and I saw something in him that made me a believer. I remember watching Roger Clemens at Texas and I knew he would be a great player. Same with Michael Jordan when he was at North Carolina. Same with Warren Sapp when he was at Miami even though lots of people were saying he would not be great. You could just tell there was something about them. They had something that you can't name but you can't ignore either. That is what I saw in Henson. I will not try to convince anybody of this but I believe he will be the eventual starter for Dallas.

The fact that you actually saw him lends credence to your opinion as well, and we'd better all hope he is the needle in a haystack or we are going to still be looking for a QB for years or settling on Carter to drive the bus.

[Nors]

Henson can't make it because of being away for 3 years. Two words for you.

ROGER STAUBACH!


He was in training camps all those years, also took a few years to step in.
I'm with Motley - cards are stacked against Henson. Started 8 games past 6 years. Hope he responds better than Chad.

[Chuck 54]

I haven't even read this thread...And I would be willing to bet that this
is a "Quincy is the man" thread....

Kev


Quincy is the man only if the question is who's the worst QB to ever take Dallas to the playoffs?

I know you didn't read the post so this isn't directed at you, but I don't know why when you have a team full of crappy QB's that when you say something about one, everyone thinks you like the other.

Heck, I'd be thrilled if I thought even one of these yahoos could play as well as Craig Morton...lol. We know what we have and don't have in CArter because we've watched him (though he could still get a little better), so what's the fun in talking about his chances. We know Vinnie's days are over...he's a backup and a mentor, and if he's more than that, then we are in even worse shape that I thought. I personally don't think Henson has better than a 50-50 shot (even less in my opinion), but most disagree.

My point is that I think Carter is the best of what we have, but that we don't have crap at the position and it's been going on too dang long.

[Nors]

Henson can't make it because of being away for 3 years. Two words for you.

ROGER STAUBACH!
its live tonight!

[Jimz31]

I think it will take time for Henson to make it in the NFL. I think his odds are poor as well due to the time away from the game.

The others that were mentioned....Roger Staubach still came to training camp and was with the team when on leave, etc. as already mentioned.

Tommy Maddox didn't jump right into the NFL and have success. He was in the XFL to get some of the rust off.

Warner was in Arena football and NFLE to get his rust off.

Henson is in town with the Dallas Cowboys....he got stopped at the stop sign....he didn't get to go to NFLE, the CFL, or Arena football to get any rust off.

When he sees the field, it will be interesting to see how he does. Like Aikman said, it will take 3 years before you even begin to feel comfortable. A case could be made for him starting this year to get those years started, but that would mean throwing a couple of years out the window....something the front office isn't willing to do.

[speedkilz88]

Wayne, had the Cowboys drafted Leftwich last year would you have posted a thread before he played in an NFL game that he will never make it in the NFL? (Of course not):rolleyes:


But Leftwich is another QB that could turn out to be a bust. We have the luxury of knowing what Leftwich did last season and even though he has shown some ability, there is still no guarantee he will be a player either. He is just the guy you have a man-crush on, while others choose to go with Q or Drew(makes sense, since they are our guys:p )

[Chuck 54]

Wayne, had the Cowboys drafted Leftwich last year would you have posted a thread before he played in an NFL game that he will never make it in the NFL? (Of course not):rolleyes:


But Leftwich is another QB that could turn out to be a bust. We have the luxury of knowing what Leftwich did last season and even though he has shown some ability, there is still no guarantee he will be a player either. He is just the guy you have a man-crush on, while others choose to go with Q or Drew(makes sense, since they are our guys:p )

You got me there, speed....excellent point in first pph...nope, I love Leftwich, and due to his college career and production (not just ability) I would sincerely believe in him for at least 3-4 years...I admit it.

I think Henson's time away from the game will hurt him just as it did Chad, regardless of any measurable talent that Henson supposedly has that Chad didn't. I like Leftwich's chances better than Henson's.

You caught me in that one, but even with the still real possibility that Leftwich may also fail in a couple of years, do you think there's any fan of the Cowboys that wouldn't trade Henson and Carter for Leftwich? Do you think if the Jags called Dallas and offerred him up for Henson and Carter and Romo that JJ and Parcells wouldn't jump on it before the close of the business day?

I know...I digress.

[ABQCOWBOY]

No I don't agree because it takes time to develop a QB plain and simple. Henson will not come in and play awesome right away. He may not play good in his second year. There isn't a lot of time for a guy to be successful. Basically time has been invested with QC as the QB, why in the hell would you start from scratch? I don't care about how much talent Henson has, he won't be good this year, it won't happen. I do have confidence that QC will have a better year next year. Not because I am a QC lover either. I am not here to make excuses, but he will improve now that he is in the same freakin system for more than one year. Anyone that has played one ounce of football would know that.

You seem confused Zack. Your the one who said that QC wasn't even an average QB but in your post, you are all over yourself about QC being good next year etc. The truth is that 2 years ago, many said that it was a mistake to invest in QC because he did not have the basic ability to play QB in the NFL. Last year the same was said and whats more, it was generally discussed that if we spent all this time, we would only have to start all over when the truth was accepted. Now your contending that QC was no good but we shouldn't start over because it takes years to develope a QB. News flash, that's why you don't spend all kinds of resources on a guy who clearly doesn't have the talent. If we have to start all over, all of you who support QC have only yourselves to blame. I am of the opinion that QC is here so why not let him start and see if in fact he can get it done. I do not believe he will ever be championship quality QB but I'm willing to accept the fact that I could be wrong. You, on the other hand, won't even take the chance to accept that QC may not be the guy and Henson just might be. You say that anybody who has played one ounce of football knows that 2 years in the same system would make anybody better. Interesting that you could not see that a QB who comes into the league and can't even throw a football properly should never have seen his second year. In the end, Carter may overcome his short comings but I would not bet money on it. However, I am in Vegas right now and would be happy to place that bet for you. They'll bet on most anything here as I'm sure you know. Can't guarantee the odds though.

[Chocolate Lab]

excellent point...so simple, yet true....which also points to the historical fact that any former collegiate QB, even one with a full, extensive college career, and even one who stays in the game and goes right to the pros still has a much higher % chance to be a failure than a star in the NFL at the QB position....no one would argue that fact, right? Yet they don't like the fact that I think Henson, who didn't have a full career or even a full season and who has been away from the game is much more likely to fail than to succeed in the NFL and little chance to be a real star QB.
I think this may be part of the confusion... In your first post you said Henson wouldn't even be 1/2 of what Quincy is, which would make him an absolute bust. But then here you say that he has little chance to become a star QB. Well, that's a huge difference.

It might be true that the odds of him becoming a Marino or even Manning or McNair are small... Those are just the percentages for any player coming into the league, layoff or not. But all Henson has to do to be a huge upgrade for us is to become an above-average, competent quarterback. And in my observations, usually when you get a guy who is 1) Very talented physically, and 2) smart and dedicated, you get a guy who -- barring injury -- will become a good player. And that's all we need him to be, especially for just a 3rd rounder.

[Hostile]

Quincy is the man only if the question is who's the worst QB to ever take Dallas to the playoffs?

I know you didn't read the post so this isn't directed at you, but I don't know why when you have a team full of crappy QB's that when you say something about one, everyone thinks you like the other.

Heck, I'd be thrilled if I thought even one of these yahoos could play as well as Craig Morton...lol. We know what we have and don't have in CArter because we've watched him (though he could still get a little better), so what's the fun in talking about his chances. We know Vinnie's days are over...he's a backup and a mentor, and if he's more than that, then we are in even worse shape that I thought. I personally don't think Henson has better than a 50-50 shot (even less in my opinion), but most disagree.

My point is that I think Carter is the best of what we have, but that we don't have crap at the position and it's been going on too dang long.
Bravo. Author, author.

I basically feel like all I have to do now is get you to bet on my horse. Luckily I won't have to do anything as he will either convince you of that himself or ratify your doubts.

I totally agree about wishing any one of them were as good as Morton. I was a huge Staubch guy and Morton had to go in my opinion. I could not stand the guy in many ways. I supported him while he was our player, but was relieved when he was gone and Staubach was the unquestioned guy. I'd take Morton right now and be thrilled.

[The Great Number 8]

Wayne Motley started it all with this:

>>never in the history of the NFL has a player ever dropped totally out of football for a few years and come back to be a player, probably not at any position and certainly not at QB<<

The QB position, other than Staubach and Schroeder is probably pretty accurate, but no player? I'll at least offer up Bo Jackson, who didn't play in 1986 and most of 1987, and he was outstanding until the hip injury.

[EveryoneElse]

I was actually responding to a Hostile post in another thread, but I thought you guys would enjoy getting riled over this opinion, so I started a new thread here.

I write this as my honest and true opinion, but I also know it will get everyone's blood pumping, and we need that to get through Wednesday.

"I'll be brutally honest too then, and I have absolutely nothing to base my opinion on other than NFL history, past and recent. I don't think Henson will ever prove to be much better than Hutch...in fact, I think he's going to suck butt, never amount to half the QB CArter is, which is only a little more than 1/2 a QB...there, I said it :eek: and I'm sure all the Henson lovers, like the Hutch lovers, will accuse me of being a Carter lover or a negative fan, but history is on my side...forget all the crap about Henson's ability.

Ability doesn't make an NFL QB...many of the most physically gifted QB's to come out of 4 year college programs in the last 10 years have gone bust because they still couldn't cut it. I'll present the same argument I used for Hutch...never in the history of the NFL has a player ever dropped totally out of football for a few years and come back to be a player, probably not at any position and certainly not at QB...the very argument for why a RB with a better college background than Henson must play football this year, even in Canada or semi-pro to have any shot at making it in the future in the NFL (Clarett) is the same logical argument for why Henson won't make it. When something has never happened in the history of the game, I tend to believe it's not going to happen for the first time in Dallas just because we want it to.

We gambled with that 3rd round pick...I don't have a problem with a gamble like that when we are so short on a decent QB...Carter is a viable guy who will be up and down, but is our best shot at winning. Vinnie? Please, don't insult my intelligence, or again, history, by telling me he can be a winning QB for the Dallas Cowboys. Henson? a rookie QB who played 8 college games and has not been in any type of football for several years...hope all you want, love what you saw those 8 games back in the day, but it ain't gonna happen.

That's why I support Carter, because he is the best QB on our team in my opinion...I think all the others are simply a joke...are we better with CArter, Vinnie and Henson than we were with Carter, Hutch, and Romo? Of course, but don't delude yourself into thinking that means we become a much better team and prepared for the future. Vinnie is not the future and will never take this team to the playoffs...period. Henson will never be our star QB because he's not going to cut it after so long away...even if he's better than Hutch, that's not saying much...Chad, the favorite former baseballer of another year couldn't even cut it in Europe. Suppose Henson does eventually look like a QB in the NFL in 2-3 years, do you really think he'll buck history and have a Marino type first year as a starter???

Nope...I'll take the abuse for this opinion, but Carter is the best Qb on this team and will probably continue so until we actually draft one or bring in a veteran starter that still has his prime...however, that's not saying much, and that's why the Cowboys will regret for years that they passed on Leftwich in order to get a good CB and continue to gamble on striking gold at QB...Sorry, all I see is Pyrite.

Well Hell.....I want the third round pick back. Why didn't you let everyone in on this before we gave up a draft pick on the scrub QB? BP and JJ would have appreciated the info.

[crazylegs]

Henson can't make it because of being away for 3 years. Two words for you.

ROGER STAUBACH!

If carter can make it in the NFL then any fry cook from Micky D's can. So at this rate Hinderson should follow Reagan to the white house after the HOF.

[Chuck 54]

If carter can make it in the NFL then any fry cook from Micky D's can. So at this rate Hinderson should follow Reagan to the white house after the HOF.

hmmm...I hear your point, but it's quite an indictment of our last former baseballer, Chad Hutchinson...it's not easy to make it in the NFL, especially at the QB position. Every year or two there's a "can't miss" QB prospect who can't catch up to the speed of the game or its complexity or pressure. Can Henson make it and become a star, far superior to any other QB on our roster?

Of course it could happen...my point in this post is that it is not very likely for a raw rookie to ever catch up to where Carter is because he's not going to get a chance unless Carter regresses. I sincerely believe that Henson's time away from the game will present many of the same problems that Chad had...I think there's a higher probability that he'll fail than that he'll exceed...it's just an opinion...no more, no less.

Everyone wants to dump on Chad and talk about how far superior Henson is as a prospect, and maybe he is, but not "far superior." When we signed Chad, all I read was how Chad had a good thing going at Stanford, how he was projected as a high first round draft choice if he'd stayed with college football. Now I hear the same exact thing about Henson, only that maybe he'd have been the first QB in the draft....they are all projections, assuming they'd stayed in college football, I think, or am I wrong? They both cut short their development in the NFL's minor leagues for the allure and money of baseball.

Good for them, but after seeing that Chad can't even get close to looking like an NFL QB and can't even make a roster filled with Carter, Henson, Vinne, and Romo, well....sorry, I just think that even if Henson is far superior to Chad in some way I don't understand that he will still struggle mightily to become an NFL QB, and I think the idea that he'll be a star QB in the NFL, a franchise QB, is a big reach...I don't think that opinion is all that crazy.

[TruBlueCowboy]

Henson was legit 1st round talent. Hutchinson was nothing. I think there's a big difference. Unlike Campo though, I know Parcells won't rush his project, so I doubt we'll see the results until 2005.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Of course it could happen...my point in this post is that it is not very likely for a raw rookie to ever catch up to where Carter is because he's not going to get a chance unless Carter regresses.


Everyone wants to dump on Chad and talk about how far superior Henson is as a prospect, and maybe he is, but not "far superior." When we signed Chad, all I read was how Chad had a good thing going at Stanford, how he was projected as a high first round draft choice if he'd stayed with college football. Now I hear the same exact thing about Henson, only that maybe he'd have been the first QB in the draft....they are all projections, assuming they'd stayed in college football, I think, or am I wrong? They both cut short their development in the NFL's minor leagues for the allure and money of baseball.



Two things here.

One, I believe your statement about Henson not getting a chance unless Carter regresses is incorrect. This statement would imply that Carter has, at some point, performed at a level that would suggest he was the long term answer for Dallas. That is not the case. Carter has to do more then just not regresss. He has to get substantially better. That's a very different thing then none regression.

Secondly, you compare Henson to Hutchinson and that's OK but I think you need to examine each player a bit more carefully. I think it's fair to say that both Hutchinson and Henson were out of football, playing baseball, and in that, they are simular. In there standing before making the decision to try pro baseball, they are light years apart. If your drawing conclusions based on what you read on message boards, then I understand your comparsion. If your actually looking at both players at concurent points in there careers then your way off. Hutchinson was a QB who came out of a pro style offense that had substantial raw ability. He had shown flashes that would suggest he could be a very good QB. Hutchinson was projected to be a 1st round talent over the course of a 4 year career. Henson was projected to be the 1st player taken in the NFL draft after his Junior year. The difference here is that Hutchinson was viewed long term and progression was factored in over time. Henson had already earned his status as the best player in College football. The difference here is the difference between me telling you that in 2 years, if you work hard, you could be in a position to be consider for upper management and me coming to you and saying, "We have a VP slot open. It pays 250K to start, plus bennifits and we want you for the job." See the difference?

[Hostile]

hmmm...I hear your point, but it's quite an indictment of our last former baseballer, Chad Hutchinson...it's not easy to make it in the NFL, especially at the QB position. Every year or two there's a "can't miss" QB prospect who can't catch up to the speed of the game or its complexity or pressure. Can Henson make it and become a star, far superior to any other QB on our roster?
I think Henson can and for one very simple reason, he's simply a better prospect in the eyes of every NFL scouting service out there. They aren't always 100% right, but they aren't 100% wrong either. There was and is legitimate excitement about this guy for some reason. Yes, it could happen as you so correctly acknowledge next.

Of course it could happen...my point in this post is that it is not very likely for a raw rookie to ever catch up to where Carter is because he's not going to get a chance unless Carter regresses. I sincerely believe that Henson's time away from the game will present many of the same problems that Chad had...I think there's a higher probability that he'll fail than that he'll exceed...it's just an opinion...no more, no less.
It's no big trick for the raw rookie to catch up if he's simply got a starting point further along than the vested veteran. In this case Henson does. If the coaching staff sees that they might act on it. Very similar to the way Green Bay decided that Brett Favre, though very raw, had intangibles that Don Majkowski did not possess. "Majik" was a very popular QB in Green Bay but the professional staff in place simply saw something that needed to be tapped in Favre. Regression is not a necessity to Henson getting a nod. The only requirement is that Henson show them something that they are looking for that they currently do not have.

Everyone wants to dump on Chad and talk about how far superior Henson is as a prospect, and maybe he is, but not "far superior." When we signed Chad, all I read was how Chad had a good thing going at Stanford, how he was projected as a high first round draft choice if he'd stayed with college football. Now I hear the same exact thing about Henson, only that maybe he'd have been the first QB in the draft....they are all projections, assuming they'd stayed in college football, I think, or am I wrong? They both cut short their development in the NFL's minor leagues for the allure and money of baseball.
I may be one of the few people who saw Hutchinson play in college. Being in Pac 10 country that is no big deal. It's who we watch. When I first joined DMN it was just after Hutch had played his first 2 games and Emmitt got the record. People were still giddy about Hutch. I was cautious. I remember when he opted for baseball I didn't think much of it.

When Henson opted for baseball I remember thinking what a loss that was. Did Hutch have 1st round talent? Maybe he did, or maybe that was the hype machine trying to excite the fans. There is not a doubt in my mind that Henson was the real deal. He simply was one of the best game managers I had seen in college ball in a half dozen years. The hype on him was nationwide. They hype on Hutchinson was Dallas media hoping to excite the fans. I see a difference.

Good for them, but after seeing that Chad can't even get close to looking like an NFL QB and can't even make a roster filled with Carter, Henson, Vinne, and Romo, well....sorry, I just think that even if Henson is far superior to Chad in some way I don't understand that he will still struggle mightily to become an NFL QB, and I think the idea that he'll be a star QB in the NFL, a franchise QB, is a big reach...I don't think that opinion is all that crazy.
Of course he will struggle. No player plays this game and makes it a breeze. I simply think this kid is the best candidate we have had to actually play the position at a high level since Aikman was here. He has tools. He has pedigree. He has intangibles. Make no mistake about it, he has to put them all together. The onus is entirely on him. Personally, I like the chances and the odds that he will pan out.

Every great QB comes from somewhere to be great. Every one of them draws strength from something. Maybe this kid's strength will simply be his heart. I think you need to give him a chance before you write him off. Not that I think you are doing that. I know exactly what you are saying by tuning out the hype machine and stating the reality ahead.

Going back to my horse race analogy. They're all in the gates right now. He may break slowly and be behind in the front stretch. When they turn for home on the backstretch that is the run for the Super Bowl, I am convinced he'll be the one kicking up the mud and dust. Maybe he can lead wire to wire. Nothing is given and at the same time, nothing is impossible.

[Chuck 54]

Henson was legit 1st round talent. Hutchinson was nothing. I think there's a big difference. Unlike Campo though, I know Parcells won't rush his project, so I doubt we'll see the results until 2005.
Hutch was nothing??? Check your archives...Hutch was called a possible first round choice if he'd stayed....that may not be as much as Henson, but it's far from nothing, certainly higher than Carter was expected.

[Chuck 54]

Two things here.

One, I believe your statement about Henson not getting a chance unless Carter regresses is incorrect. This statement would imply that Carter has, at some point, performed at a level that would suggest he was the long term answer for Dallas. That is not the case. Carter has to do more then just not regresss. He has to get substantially better. That's a very different thing then none regression.

Secondly, you compare Henson to Hutchinson and that's OK but I think you need to examine each player a bit more carefully. I think it's fair to say that both Hutchinson and Henson were out of football, playing baseball, and in that, they are simular. In there standing before making the decision to try pro baseball, they are light years apart. If your drawing conclusions based on what you read on message boards, then I understand your comparsion. If your actually looking at both players at concurent points in there careers then your way off. Hutchinson was a QB who came out of a pro style offense that had substantial raw ability. He had shown flashes that would suggest he could be a very good QB. Hutchinson was projected to be a 1st round talent over the course of a 4 year career. Henson was projected to be the 1st player taken in the NFL draft after his Junior year. The difference here is that Hutchinson was viewed long term and progression was factored in over time. Henson had already earned his status as the best player in College football. The difference here is the difference between me telling you that in 2 years, if you work hard, you could be in a position to be consider for upper management and me coming to you and saying, "We have a VP slot open. It pays 250K to start, plus bennifits and we want you for the job." See the difference?

Excellent point about Henson being top pick his Junior year, if correct...I had just assumed it meant if he'd stayed in school another year since the NFL hasn't had much luck with QB's coming out early over the years.

[Chuck 54]

I think Henson can and for one very simple reason, he's simply a better prospect in the eyes of every NFL scouting service out there. They aren't always 100% right, but they aren't 100% wrong either. There was and is legitimate excitement about this guy for some reason. Yes, it could happen as you so correctly acknowledge next.


It's no big trick for the raw rookie to catch up if he's simply got a starting point further along than the vested veteran. In this case Henson does. If the coaching staff sees that they might act on it. Very similar to the way Green Bay decided that Brett Favre, though very raw, had intangibles that Don Majkowski did not possess. "Majik" was a very popular QB in Green Bay but the professional staff in place simply saw something that needed to eb taped in Favre. Regression is not a necessity to Henson getting a nod. The only requirement is that henson show them something that they are looking for that they currently do not have.


I may be one of the few people who saw Hutchinson play in college. Being in Pac 10 country that is no big deal. It's who we watch. When I first joined DMN was just after Hutch had played his first 2 games and Emmitt got the record. People were still giddy about Hutch. I was cautious. I remember when he opted for baseball I didn't think much of it.

When Henson opted for baseball I remember thinking what a loss that was. Did Hutch have 1st round talent? Maybe he did or maybe that was the hype machine trying to excite the fans. There is not a doubt in my mind that Henson was the real deal. He simply was one of the best game managers I had seen in college ball in a half dozen years. The hype on him was nationwide. They hype on Hutchinson was Dallas media hoping to excite the fans. I see a difference.


Of course he will struggle. No player plays this game and makes it a breeze. I simply think this kid is the best candidate we have had to actually play the position at a high level since Aikman was here. He has tools. He has pedigree. He has intangibles. Make no mistake about it, he has to pu them all together. The onus is entirely on him. Personally, I like the chances and the odds that he will pan out.

Every great QB comes from somewhere to be great. Every one of them draws strength from something. Maybe this kid's strength will simply be his heart. I think you need to give him a chance before you write him off. Not that I think you are doing that. I know exactly what you are saying by tuning out the hype machine and stating the reality ahead.

Going back to my horse race analogy. They're all in the gates right now. He may break slowly and be behind in the front stretch. When they turn for home on the backstretch that is the run for the Super Bowl, I am convinced he'll be the one kicking up the mud and dust. Maybe he can lead wire to wire. Nothing is given and at the same time, nothing is impossible.

Excellent and well thought out response as usual...nothing more I can add...it will be fun to see Henson in the preseason, even if it's only in mop up duty and never against the starters (not saying that will definitely happen)...even though I don't expect him to light it up, we should at least see some flashes of brilliance here and there if he's got the goods to be ready in 1-3 years.

[CapnComeback]

Jay Shroeder played minor league baseball for 3 years before deciding to go back to football full time. He started only one college game at QB for UCLA in 1980. He entered the NFL draft in 1984, and was drafted in the 3rd round by the Redskins. He sat out his rookie year behind Theismann, but was the team's fulltime starter by the end of his 2nd year after Theisman's broken leg. His third year in the league he threw for 4,000 yards and went to the Pro bowl. While not a Hall of Famer, he had a respectable 11 year career.

Schroeder had a couple of decent years with the Raiders as well if I remember correctly. He was terrible on Tecmo Bowl, though. LOL

[BrAinPaiNt]

I"m shocked Brain...and disappointed that you would be such an *** as to suggest my purpose was to start a flame war...have I ever done that at either site? Never, and while I'm sure you've read my posts over the last couple of years, as I have yours, I don't think you know me well enough to read my mind...so you can now officially bite me.

And if you read the first few lines of the original post, while I admitted this would be fun, I also prefaced it with the fact that it is indeed my true opinion.

Again, how can you argue with facts? Every year QB's who played successfully in college and go straight to the pros fail in the NFL much more often than they succeed, and very few ever become stars, so any small bit of logic certainly supports the opinion that Henson has a much greater likelihood of being a failure in Dallas as a QB (and moreso with his absence from the game) than he does of being a success. I don't think he'll succeed.

How could any person with a brain suggest that Henson has a better chance of success than all the other QB's through the years in the NFL? My point is that it's silly to put one's hope in his hands and think he'll be the star of the future. I don't see that as starting a flame unless everyone reading it thinks Henson is very likely to be a star QB in the NFL.

You have a right to your opinion about my original post, but you are wrong, dead wrong.

Never said Henson would or would not make it in the pros...that seems to be your contention not mine.
If you read the post I was replying to you would see that I was agreeing with someone that spoke that Henson is an unknown, vinny is a backup who probably would not start, and this is QCs chance to finally prove that he is or is not the right QB for this team.

Now...when you start out with some of these words in your post....

but I thought you guys would enjoy getting riled over this opinion, so I started a new thread here.

but I also know it will get everyone's blood pumping

I think he's going to suck butt, never amount to half the QB CArter is, which is only a little more than 1/2 a QB...there, I said it and I'm sure all the Henson lovers, like the Hutch lovers, will accuse me of being a Carter lover or a negative fan

Henson will never be our star QB because he's not going to cut it after so long away

Nope...I'll take the abuse for this opinion


Now...HOW can you be shocked that someone called you on your post?....when you yourself said the things above?

Excuse...if that is not a flame post to "getting riled" and getting "blood pumping"over opinions...then saying the QB sucks butt and will never amount to half the QB that QC is....then even later...Henson is not going to cut it after being gone so long.

Well sir...I do not know how you could be surprised or shocked at my reaction....really did you expect me to agree with you and not see it as a flame thread?

Also please take note that I did not resort to calling you names or telling you to bite me or other colorful phrases just because I did not agree with you.

No where did I say you were a liar as you claim.

You need to step back...take a few breathes, cool your jets and figure out why you are so pissed at someone calling you on this.

[CapnComeback]

HUH?

What history?

There's not enough data to suggest any history.

It's a unique situation, which is exactly why no one can definitively state what will happen.

I will say that your opinion that Henson won't see the playing field for 2-3 years if "lucky" is way off base.

I'll take that bet in an instant.

And comparing Henson to Hutch simply because they were both baseball players who were out of football for a few years, is like comparing a Ferrari to my lawn mower because they both have four wheels and an engine.

I'm done. This is clearly one of those threads that are argumentative for it's own sake....I guess it's your 15 minutes of fame.

Wayne pretty much said in the lead post in this thread that it was a slow Wednesday and he was pretty much trying to stir the hornet's nest.

I hate posts where people just post stupid or inflammatory statements because it's a slow day. Get a life for God's sake: if the day is that slow back away from the computer and read a book or something.

The NFL annuals are out now, go to a drugstore, get one and start from the beginning: Arizona Cardinals, Atlanta Falcons, Baltimore Ravens,.................

[BrAinPaiNt]

That's the final straw, Mr Moderator...you can kiss my ***. But I'm sure your insulting and ignorant description of my post is okay because you are a moderator...I consider you denegration of my opinion to be a personal insult...it's one thing to offer support as some have of why Henson might have a chance, and I've responded with respect to their opinions, but you prefer to insult the original post and essentially call me a liar since the first post was described by me as my honest opinion.

Pathetic...and that's my final word.


Where did I call you a liar?

Secondly you responded in a very pathetic way to a post of mine FIRST...I was agreeing with what another poster said...he summed it up quite well IMO....yet once again you have to find a way to make sure and say...Kiss my ***.

Once again I never called you a liar.

Just because I think it was a flame thread...does not mean I think you are lying that you are saying your honest opinions.
Hell I beleive that you think that way....but I also believe you did that post knowing it would get some people riled up or to pull the anti QC agenda.

Nothing wrong with having an opinion...however I did not have to say some of things you did to me.

[Doomsday101]

I would agree that in the end no one knows how Henson is going to do but I do think he comes in with the most physical talent out of any QB we have had since Troy Aikman was drafted. There is no doubt he has a lot or work ahead of him to get back into the swing of things but having been working on his game since November I do think he will come in a lot more prepaired than people are thinking. I would be a bit suprised if he plays at all this year but I do think it is only a matter of when not if.

[OldMan]

Wayne doesn't think Henson will make it and he is certainly intitled to his opinion. If we don't think much of his opinion, then we are intitled to ours. But let's look at what we do know.
First, we don't know that Chad won't make it in the NFL. He has a good arm, is fairly accurate and is strong. He doesn't have what I call field presence and doesn't feel the rush. But if he went to a team with a very good offensive line, he might make a good QB. With Dallas and in the NFLE he suffered from poor offensive lines. I know this sounds like the arguments made for Quincy, but we are only looking at facts. If he went to a team that had a good offensive line, good RB and good defense, he might even win a SB.
I don't think this is going to happen, but until he drops out of the picture it might. Look at Plunkett, played for several teams then boom won a SB.
Second, let's look at Henson. He has a great arm, great accuracy and a good head. Takes charge, like a leader should. All of these are assets in a QB. Now pro scouts say the main drawback in stepping up to the pro level is can the player adjust to the faster speed of the pros and can he adjust to the fact that you must concentrate 100% of the time. (All of this considering, did he have the talent to be there in the first place.) Since Bill Parcells picked Henson, I think he has the talent to be there, but whether he can make the other adjustments, only time will tell. However Bill has coached three of the all time QBs, so I think he knows how to judge talent. (Remember, JJ picked Q and Hutch)
By the way several players have made it in the NFL after laying out for a while. In fact, I don't think Bob Hayes even played College ball. There usually has to be a good reason or they would start playing right out of college but that doesn't mean they can't make it. 1st round pick also doesn't mean they make it. Roosevelt Brown, who recently died, was picked in the 27th round(Yes there used to be a lot more rounds in the draft) and he made 9 pro bowls and the hall of fame.
and TMHO

[BHendri5]

Wayne doesn't think Henson will make it and he is certainly intitled to his opinion. If we don't think much of his opinion, then we are intitled to ours. But let's look at what we do know.
First, we don't know that Chad won't make it in the NFL. He has a good arm, is fairly accurate and is strong. He doesn't have what I call field presence and doesn't feel the rush. But if he went to a team with a very good offensive line, he might make a good QB. With Dallas and in the NFLE he suffered from poor offensive lines. I know this sounds like the arguments made for Quincy, but we are only looking at facts. If he went to a team that had a good offensive line, good RB and good defense, he might even win a SB.
I don't think this is going to happen, but until he drops out of the picture it might. Look at Plunkett, played for several teams then boom won a SB.
Second, let's look at Henson. He has a great arm, great accuracy and a good head. Takes charge, like a leader should. All of these are assets in a QB. Now pro scouts say the main drawback in stepping up to the pro level is can the player adjust to the faster speed of the pros and can he adjust to the fact that you must concentrate 100% of the time. (All of this considering, did he have the talent to be there in the first place.) Since Bill Parcells picked Henson, I think he has the talent to be there, but whether he can make the other adjustments, only time will tell. However Bill has coached three of the all time QBs, so I think he knows how to judge talent. (Remember, JJ picked Q and Hutch)
By the way several players have made it in the NFL after laying out for a while. In fact, I don't think Bob Hayes even played College ball. There usually has to be a good reason or they would start playing right out of college but that doesn't mean they can't make it. 1st round pick also doesn't mean they make it. Roosevelt Brown, who recently died, was picked in the 27th round(Yes there used to be a lot more rounds in the draft) and he made 9 pro bowls and the hall of fame.
and TMHO


JJ has been inquiring about Henson for the past 2yrs but the Texans always wanted too much. Now that they feel confident about Carr, they were more reasonable so JJ gave up the 3rd pick. It was reported that Parcells wanted Henson, but in truth Jones for the past 2yrs had been trying to get Henson, and once again he did it again this year and succeeded.

Really it was Jones picking another QB, they give Parcells the credit because he makes the majority of the personnel decisions, but if you recall Jones said when he hired Parcells that he would let him run the show but that he will still have say so that he would never give up total authority.

[jay cee]

Neither is Carter.


This thread is actually about Henson's odds at becoming a great player.

[p1_]

Henson can't make it because of being away for 3 years. Two words for you.

ROGER STAUBACH!


great minds think alike. This was my first thought.

[speedkilz88]

JJ has been inquiring about Henson for the past 2yrs but the Texans always wanted too much. Now that they feel confident about Carr, they were more reasonable so JJ gave up the 3rd pick. It was reported that Parcells wanted Henson, but in truth Jones for the past 2yrs had been trying to get Henson, and once again he did it again this year and succeeded.

Really it was Jones picking another QB, they give Parcells the credit because he makes the majority of the personnel decisions, but if you recall Jones said when he hired Parcells that he would let him run the show but that he will still have say so that he would never give up total authority.
The Texans only had him eleven months(He was drafted last year). They drafted him knowing they would never play him. The Cowboys looked into drafting him last season also, but BP was told by the Yankees that he was staying with baseball. It has been reported by different sources that BP talked to Henson's coach at Michigan and his baseball coaches. He also joined Jerry and Drew for dinner and drove Drew to his hotel. Does that sound like BP wasn't the one interested in him?

[Doomsday101]

The Texans only had him eleven months(He was drafted last year). They drafted him knowing they would never play him. The Cowboys looked into drafting him last season also, but BP was told by the Yankees that he was staying with baseball. It has been reported by different sources that BP talked to Henson's coach at Michigan and his baseball coaches. He also joined Jerry and Drew for dinner and drove Drew to his hotel. Does that sound like BP wasn't the one interested in him?

What you said is the same things I have seen and read.

[BHendri5]

The Texans only had him eleven months(He was drafted last year). They drafted him knowing they would never play him. The Cowboys looked into drafting him last season also, but BP was told by the Yankees that he was staying with baseball. It has been reported by different sources that BP talked to Henson's coach at Michigan and his baseball coaches. He also joined Jerry and Drew for dinner and drove Drew to his hotel. Does that sound like BP wasn't the one interested in him?


That is what I said, that it has been reported that Parcells initiated everything. But I remember when the Texans draftedCarr, Henson was talked about too.

And while Campo was still the Coach, Jones talked with Casserly about Acquiring Henson. So Jones never inquired about Henson while Campo was the coach?

[speedkilz88]

That is what I said, that it has been reported that Parcells initiated everything. But I remember when the Texans draftedCarr, Henson was talked about too.

And while Campo was still the Coach, Jones talked with Casserly about Acquiring Henson. So Jones never inquired about Henson while Campo was the coach?
Campo's last year with the Cowboys was 2002 and Drew Henson was drafted by the Texans in 2003.

[CoCo1]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents here. Not so much on Hensons prospects for success. I have no prediction for him there. I simply have a hope that he'll become a great Dallas QB. I have the same hope for QC & Romo.

What I wanted to add was that I thought Wayne's initial post was a good one. Strong opinion? Sure. But I think the spirit of the post was just fine. "Here's my take, and why" is what I read.

Now I'll grant that some of the phrases within the post, taken out of context, or at least out of "the spirit" of the post could appear inflammatory, but I don't think that was his intention at all. His very fair and patient responses to dissenters is evidence enough of that. He even gave props to those who dissented but did so with good rationale. What more could we ask on this board?

Honestly I think Wayne did a great job of creating a great thread.

[BHendri5]

Campo's last year with the Cowboys was 2002 and Drew Henson was drafted by the Texans in 2003.


i'll take your word for it. I thought that the Texans already had the rights to Henson before they drafted Carr. I tried to get to the archives in the Dallas Morning News but had no luck getting into the archives.

[CoCo1]

One more thing. My hopes are indeed high for Henson. Wayne suggested that for many our hopes were similarly high for Hutchinson. I think that is a very fair statement in general. Now of course individual opinions did and will vary.

Hutch WAS hailed by some as a likely 1st round pick had he stuck out football instead of opting for pro baseball.

Hutch was also hailed as more than just a thrower, but with great athleticism to boot. Please recall the stories about CH playing pickup hoops at Standford and regularly being chose first cause he was such a great athlete. Henson, too is hailed as a great athlete.

I don't think there is anything that Henson has done since he has been in Dallas that would clearly and definitively separate him from CH's early beginnings. I'm not sure there is anything HE or anyone else in his spot COULD do at this point. As JJT points out many look good in the underwear Olympics but fail when the real bullets fly.

Now I'm not at all saying the similarities seal Henson to a similar fate (though Wayne thinks that is likely). I'm just saying that Wayne's point is valid. Similarly, the dissenters point out the differences and there are some significant ones. Rightfully noted.

I think there is fuel for both sides. Its been a good debate. We'll just have to wait for the real answers. Its all an unknown right now.

[Juke99]

Wayne pretty much said in the lead post in this thread that it was a slow Wednesday and he was pretty much trying to stir the hornet's nest.

I hate posts where people just post stupid or inflammatory statements because it's a slow day. Get a life for God's sake: if the day is that slow back away from the computer and read a book or something.

The NFL annuals are out now, go to a drugstore, get one and start from the beginning: Arizona Cardinals, Atlanta Falcons, Baltimore Ravens,.................


Gee, this sounds somewhat inflammaroty to me. :D

[Double Trouble]

i'll take your word for it. I thought that the Texans already had the rights to Henson before they drafted Carr. I tried to get to the archives in the Dallas Morning News but had no luck getting into the archives.
No, they drafted him in the 6th round of the '03 draft.

[blindzebra]

i'll take your word for it. I thought that the Texans already had the rights to Henson before they drafted Carr. I tried to get to the archives in the Dallas Morning News but had no luck getting into the archives.

Carr was drafted in the 2002 draft, beat Quincy and the Boys in his first game. That would be one of those piss poor games that Carter has had that you have never seen.

Henson was drafted in the 2003 draft.

We aquired Henson in 2004 for a 2005 3rd round pick.

This would be something that a coach-like super fan should know.

Let me guess, is this airman Daly again?

[Double Trouble]

One more thing. My hopes are indeed high for Henson. Wayne suggested that for many our hopes were similarly high for Hutchinson. I think that is a very fair statement in general. Now of course individual opinions did and will vary.

Hutch WAS hailed by some as a likely 1st round pick had he stuck out football instead of opting for pro baseball.

Hutch was also hailed as more than just a thrower, but with great athleticism to boot. Please recall the stories about CH playing pickup hoops at Standford and regularly being chose first cause he was such a great athlete. Henson, too is hailed as a great athlete.

I don't think there is anything that Henson has done since he has been in Dallas that would clearly and definitively separate him from CH's early beginnings. I'm not sure there is anything HE or anyone else in his spot COULD do at this point. As JJT points out many look good in the underwear Olympics but fail when the real bullets fly.

Now I'm not at all saying the similarities seal Henson to a similar fate (though Wayne thinks that is likely). I'm just saying that Wayne's point is valid. Similarly, the dissenters point out the differences and there are some significant ones. Rightfully noted.

I think there is fuel for both sides. Its been a good debate. We'll just have to wait for the real answers. Its all an unknown right now.
Mel Kiper said that after CH's rookie season, he had a value roughly equal to a 1st round pick. His comment was something like "If GMs knew then about CH what they know now" (as though CH's rookie campaign would have justified his being a #1 pick). And you're right that there was a lot of talk about how good an athlete CH is when he was first signed. I don't discount that talk: I think he probably is a good all-around athlete. His problem is between his ears. He just can't mentally handle what the NFL throws at him, at least not right now.

However, Drew Henson is in a whole other category from CH. Henson was regarded as a potential #1 overall following his junior yr. CH never rose to that prominence, as suggested by his college statistics. Henson was pegged by many as a blue chipper early in his college career.

Still, I think CH has a chance to be a decent NFL QB one day. Problem is, it can't be in Dallas. A contending team can only carry so many projects on it's roster.

[Hollywood Henderson]

EVERY QB we have is better then Carter...

We don't go getting Hutch or Hensen or even bring Romo along if Carter was a real QB...

Heck he is so bad, he was still trying out how to take a snap his first year...

Still throwing ducks his 2nd (& 3rd)

He only played last year because he was good at avoiding the rush...

Thats not enough to "make it as a NFL QB" you have to be able to pass and that Carter sucks at!

Vinny plays this year while Romo & Hensen get ready to be real NFL QB's...Sorry Q lovers, but that guy can't play QB...at all...

[silver]

Hell, Carter isn't Carter

Neither is Carter.



LOL

Hell, I'm not Carter.
Neither is Carter.

[BHendri5]

EVERY QB we have is better then Carter...

We don't go getting Hutch or Hensen or even bring Romo along if Carter was a real QB...

Heck he is so bad, he was still trying out how to take a snap his first year...

Still throwing ducks his 2nd (& 3rd)

He only played last year because he was good at avoiding the rush...

Thats not enough to "make it as a NFL QB" you have to be able to pass and that Carter sucks at!

Vinny plays this year while Romo & Hensen get ready to be real NFL QB's...Sorry Q lovers, but that guy can't play QB...at all...





Cocaine is a hell of a drug. LOL

[Sarge]

I may be a freak but at least I am an OOTCF.

Hey, I haven't seen CBZ around, what's up?

cb has just been taken it easy of late. Miss him though.

[31WillHammerU]

Henson to Dallas no surprise
BY KEN DAVIDOFF
STAFF CORRESPONDENT

March 14, 2004
KISSIMMEE, Fla. - When news broke of Drew Henson's trade to the Dallas Cowboys Friday night, Joe Torre wasn't surprised. And it's not because he follows football that closely.

During his annual trip to Hawaii in the 2002-03 offseason, Torre revealed yesterday, a friend of Cowboys coach Bill Parcells spoke to Torre about Henson, who at the time was a third baseman in the Yankees' minor-league system.

Torre wouldn't identify the Parcells friend, but he said, "I told him, 'I think he's going to play baseball."' Henson, of course, played one more season of baseball before quitting to pursue life as an NFL quarterback.

And the Cowboys followed through on their interest in Henson, acquiring him from the Houston Texans.
------------------------------------------------------------

[Chuck 54]

EVERY QB we have is better then Carter...

We don't go getting Hutch or Hensen or even bring Romo along if Carter was a real QB...

Heck he is so bad, he was still trying out how to take a snap his first year...

Still throwing ducks his 2nd (& 3rd)

He only played last year because he was good at avoiding the rush...

Thats not enough to "make it as a NFL QB" you have to be able to pass and that Carter sucks at!

Vinny plays this year while Romo & Hensen get ready to be real NFL QB's...Sorry Q lovers, but that guy can't play QB...at all...

So why did our stupid coach play the worst QB, that idiot...

[Rude]

EVERY QB we have is better then Carter...

We don't go getting Hutch or Hensen or even bring Romo along if Carter was a real QB...

Heck he is so bad, he was still trying out how to take a snap his first year...

Still throwing ducks his 2nd (& 3rd)

He only played last year because he was good at avoiding the rush...

Thats not enough to "make it as a NFL QB" you have to be able to pass and that Carter sucks at!

Vinny plays this year while Romo & Hensen get ready to be real NFL QB's...Sorry Q lovers, but that guy can't play QB...at all...

ok :rolleyes:

[RegiStar]

Welcome to the forum. I see that is your first post. Please have thick skin. The Gators are biting today. :D

I hope you enjoy your time here.

Thank you for the welcome. My skin is thick like a gator so we'll get along great! That is all!

[Hostile]

Carr was drafted in the 2002 draft, beat Quincy and the Boys in his first game. That would be one of those piss poor games that Carter has had that you have never seen.

Henson was drafted in the 2003 draft.

We aquired Henson in 2004 for a 2005 3rd round pick.

This would be something that a coach-like super fan should know.

Let me guess, is this airman Daly again?
I had to be away all day and miss these great faux pas to add to his grand knowledge of the working of the draft.

I love "Airman Daly." :eek:

[BHendri5]

Carr was drafted in the 2002 draft, beat Quincy and the Boys in his first game. That would be one of those piss poor games that Carter has had that you have never seen.

Henson was drafted in the 2003 draft.

We aquired Henson in 2004 for a 2005 3rd round pick.

This would be something that a coach-like super fan should know.

Let me guess, is this airman Daly again?


Is that a fact? You mean to tell me Carr and Carter played each other, one on one?

Man, I could have sworn that the Texans coaching staff out coached ours, their players as a team out played ours. You could have use the Our Boys were over confident theme, I would understand that.


The ole that was an expansion team theory does not work either, reason being that most of the players, starters were starters on teams the season before. Carr was a rookie, and 3 of the OL could have been.

There were alot of Vets on the field.
We had how many PI calls, Woodson got beat by who for a TD. they put an all pro CB on a rookie and the bigger CB on our speedster JG who could not get away from being jammed at the LOS.

Yeah, I can see why you forgot all the other things that happened in the game, and just came away with a rookie Carr beat Carter theme.

[blindzebra]

Is that a fact? You mean to tell me Carr and Carter played each other, one on one?

Man, I could have sworn that the Texans coaching staff out coached ours, their players as a team out played ours. You could have use the Our Boys were over confident theme, I would understand that.


The ole that was an expansion team theory does not work either, reason being that most of the players, starters were starters on teams the season before. Carr was a rookie, and 3 of the OL could have been.

There were alot of Vets on the field.
We had how many PI calls, Woodson got beat by who for a TD. they put an all pro CB on a rookie and the bigger CB on our speedster JG who could not get away from being jammed at the LOS.

Yeah, I can see why you forgot all the other things that happened in the game, and just came away with a rookie Carr beat Carter theme.

Learn to read. I said, " Carr beat Quincy AND THE BOYS."

[junk]

Is that a fact? You mean to tell me Carr and Carter played each other, one on one?

Man, I could have sworn that the Texans coaching staff out coached ours, their players as a team out played ours. You could have use the Our Boys were over confident theme, I would understand that.


The ole that was an expansion team theory does not work either, reason being that most of the players, starters were starters on teams the season before. Carr was a rookie, and 3 of the OL could have been.

There were alot of Vets on the field.
We had how many PI calls, Woodson got beat by who for a TD. they put an all pro CB on a rookie and the bigger CB on our speedster JG who could not get away from being jammed at the LOS.

Yeah, I can see why you forgot all the other things that happened in the game, and just came away with a rookie Carr beat Carter theme.

This statement is more general and not necessarily directed at you. It cannot be both ways. You cannot claim QC led the team to 10 wins but claim it was a team effort when losses are brought up. You can't ignore statistics that show QC's weaknesses, but continually bring them up when they support QC. I think everyone on the board (myself included) needs to be better about looking at both sides of the coin. In reality, QC did help the team to 10 wins, but so did Hambrick and Edwards and every other member of the team. It doesn't mean his position cannot be improved.

Having said that, I bring up stats once again.

QC threw for 131 yards on 13/30 passing. A 43.3 % completion rate with 1 int and no TDs. His avg. pass attempt was 4.37 yards.

No matter how you look at it or attempt to lay blame on other members of the team, that was a BAD game. There is really nothing good about it.

[BHendri5]

Learn to read. I said, " Carr beat Quincy AND THE BOYS."


Well he should have, he had all of his teammates and coaching staff pluss the Cowboys coaching staff and the players helping him. :)

[BHendri5]

This statement is more general and not necessarily directed at you. It cannot be both ways. You cannot claim QC led the team to 10 wins but claim it was a team effort when losses are brought up. You can't ignore statistics that show QC's weaknesses, but continually bring them up when they support QC. I think everyone on the board (myself included) needs to be better about looking at both sides of the coin. In reality, QC did help the team to 10 wins, but so did Hambrick and Edwards and every other member of the team. It doesn't mean his position cannot be improved.

Having said that, I bring up stats once again.

QC threw for 131 yards on 13/30 passing. A 43.3 % completion rate with 1 int and no TDs. His avg. pass attempt was 4.37 yards.

No matter how you look at it or attempt to lay blame on other members of the team, that was a BAD game. There is really nothing good about it.


They win as a team and they lose as a team. My point is exactly what you said. there are a few that balmes everything that goes wrong on Carter, and Everything that goes right is in spite of Carter. I do not understand how they can say that , when it is a team sport.

Stats, on the other hand I just cannot get with that, there are too many circumstances that can generate good and bad numbers. I'm with Parcells when he says all that matters to him is wins and losses.

Work with me now it is 2:30 am and I'm trying to keep myself from being bored. Nothing is happening tonight, no people rotating in or out, no patients.

Last night we had a lot of people in here.

[junk]

They win as a team and they lose as a team. My point is exactly what you said. there are a few that balmes everything that goes wrong on Carter, and Everything that goes right is in spite of Carter. I do not understand how they can say that , when it is a team sport.

Stats, on the other hand I just cannot get with that, there are too many circumstances that can generate good and bad numbers. I'm with Parcells when he says all that matters to him is wins and losses.

Work with me now it is 2:30 am and I'm trying to keep myself from being bored. Nothing is happening tonight, no people rotating in or out, no patients.

Last night we had a lot of people in here.

Parcells himself is a huge advocate of statistics. He continually mentions them in press conferences. Believe me, wins and losses are the bottom line, but that is far from all that he takes into consideration during a week of prep time.

http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2487784

Someone else posted this earlier, an interesting read.

And anyway, if stats don't matter and you analyze it that way, then the Cowboys lost that game to the Texans and QC played a bad game anyway.

[blindzebra]

Parcells himself is a huge advocate of statistics. He continually mentions them in press conferences. Believe me, wins and losses are the bottom line, but that is far from all that he takes into consideration during a week of prep time.

http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2487784

Someone else posted this earlier, an interesting read.

And anyway, if stats don't matter and you analyze it that way, then the Cowboys lost that game to the Texans and QC played a bad game anyway.

He has gone on record saying Carter has never had a bad game.

A realistic persons view: Bad

His view: Average

A realistic view: Average

His view: Good

A realistic view: Good

His view: Great

[BHendri5]

Parcells himself is a huge advocate of statistics. He continually mentions them in press conferences. Believe me, wins and losses are the bottom line, but that is far from all that he takes into consideration during a week of prep time.

http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2487784

Someone else posted this earlier, an interesting read.

And anyway, if stats don't matter and you analyze it that way, then the Cowboys lost that game to the Texans and QC played a bad game anyway.

These stats:

Vermeil shares his weekly turnover research with Cowboys coach Bill Parcells. In turn, Parcells shares his weekly statistical profile of NFL officials with Vermeil.

About the officials? :) BP said in a press conference that he does not care about stats, but wins and losses. I guess he never said that? Yes he wants his QB his team to take care of the ball. but the other stats that you guys keep harping on, he says he has no use for. He said there are too many factors that can make the numbers look good or bad.

I must be the only one who watches the Jerry Jones show and BP's show on Sundays during the season.

[Jimz31]

These stats:

Vermeil shares his weekly turnover research with Cowboys coach Bill Parcells. In turn, Parcells shares his weekly statistical profile of NFL officials with Vermeil.

About the officials? :) BP said in a press conference that he does not care about stats, but wins and losses. I guess he never said that? Yes he wants his QB his team to take care of the ball. but the other stats that you guys keep harping on, he says he has no use for. He said there are too many factors that can make the numbers look good or bad.

I must be the only one who watches the Jerry Jones show and BP's show on Sundays during the season.

I agree with you that some of the stats are meaningless to him. Things like completion percentage can be one as it takes two people involved but really only penalizes one person...the QB for a dropped pass, whether his fault or not. I think that you are mainly talking about the ones that we seem to use on this board quite a bit.

However, BP keeps stats on ALOT of things.....he even has one person that does alot of the research for him.

[BHendri5]

I agree with you that some of the stats are meaningless to him. Things like completion percentage can be one as it takes two people involved but really only penalizes one person...the QB for a dropped pass, whether his fault or not. I think that you are mainly talking about the ones that we seem to use on this board quite a bit.

However, BP keeps stats on ALOT of things.....he even has one person that does alot of the research for him.


Yes, those stats are the ones I'm talking about.
I enjoy all the back and forth that goes on, especially on these mid shifts..

[junk]

Yes, those stats are the ones I'm talking about.
I enjoy all the back and forth that goes on, especially on these mid shifts..

Stats are very meaningful to Parcells. He has mentioned INTs regarding QC. He frequently mentions special teams yardage and how differences in it can affect games. The guy typically spews some statistical fact in almost every press conference I have heard.

Just because it reflects poorly on QC does not mean it is a bad stat or that Parcells doesn't track it or pay attention to it.

[jay cee]

Stats are very meaningful to Parcells. He has mentioned INTs regarding QC. He frequently mentions special teams yardage and how differences in it can affect games. The guy typically spews some statistical fact in almost every press conference I have heard.

Just because it reflects poorly on QC does not mean it is a bad stat or that Parcells doesn't track it or pay attention to it.

interceptions and fumbles are a lot different than completion percentages. anytime you turn the ball over, you are going to have a problem with your coach.

[junk]

interceptions and fumbles are a lot different than completion percentages. anytime you turn the ball over, you are going to have a problem with your coach.

Without a doubt, but I sincerely believe Parcells probably keeps as close an eye on his player's stats as they do themselves.

I think it was the In their Words thing (I could be wrong, it was some interview with BP) where he could recall off the top of his head the difference in special teams yardage from his PR (McConkey, I think) catching the ball and the other teams letting it hit the turf. That, to me, speaks volumes about a guy who closely follows stats.

[jay cee]

Without a doubt, but I sincerely believe Parcells probably keeps as close an eye on his player's stats as they do themselves.

I think it was the In their Words thing (I could be wrong, it was some interview with BP) where he could recall off the top of his head the difference in special teams yardage from his PR (McConkey, I think) catching the ball and the other teams letting it hit the turf. That, to me, speaks volumes about a guy who closely follows stats.


I'm not surprised at that parcells story. but I still think that is a little different scenario than just being concerned about a players personal statistics.