King on QB's

[Doomsday101]

SI.com: Do you think Dallas' Vinny Testaverde has enough gas left in the tank to be an effective NFL starter?

King: We have no idea right now. That's going to be one of those things where [coach Bill] Parcells will truly have an open mind in training camp. I've heard Parcells say 1,000 times, "I go by what I see." I watched a Jets practice last year in training camp, where I saw Testaverde throw a ball 30, 45, 50 yards down field through the course of a long practice. This guy still has a great -- not just good -- arm. I believe that if Testaverde's better at throwing the intermediate and deep ball than Quincy Carter, Parcells isn't going to start Carter just because he's younger. It's just a gut feeling on my part, but I think Vinny's going to win the job.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/peter_king/06/16/king.qanda/index.html


Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Vinny has a real chance of unseating Carter

[joseephuss]

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Vinny has a real chance of unseating Carter

Yes, but is that really a credit to Vinny or just that Quincy sucks.
:D

[aikemirv]

SI.com: Do you think Dallas' Vinny Testaverde has enough gas left in the tank to be an effective NFL starter?

King: We have no idea right now. That's going to be one of those things where [coach Bill] Parcells will truly have an open mind in training camp. I've heard Parcells say 1,000 times, "I go by what I see." I watched a Jets practice last year in training camp, where I saw Testaverde throw a ball 30, 45, 50 yards down field through the course of a long practice. This guy still has a great -- not just good -- arm. I believe that if Testaverde's better at throwing the intermediate and deep ball than Quincy Carter, Parcells isn't going to start Carter just because he's younger. It's just a gut feeling on my part, but I think Vinny's going to win the job.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/peter_king/06/16/king.qanda/index.html


Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Vinny has a real chance of unseating Carter

I agree with that assessment, but I also think it Henson's developement and progress will have a more determining factor on who starts and plays between Carter and Vinny more than anything else.

If Henson shows a lot of promise and Vinny outplays Carter then I think Vinny will start. If Henson shows little promise through preseason then I believe BP will continue to mold QC into his Bus Driver until a better option shows up. He is into building the future and Vinny is not the future.

Unless, of course BP thinks he has a team that can compete for the SB this year. If that is the case then best player starts hands down!

[Doomsday101]

I agree with that assessment, but I also think it Henson's developement and progress will have a more determining factor on who starts and plays between Carter and Vinny more than anything else.

If Henson shows a lot of promise and Vinny outplays Carter then I think Vinny will start. If Henson shows little promise through preseason then I believe BP will continue to mold QC into his Bus Driver until a better option shows up. He is into building the future and Vinny is not the future.

Unless, of course BP thinks he has a team that can compete for the SB this year. If that is the case then best player starts hands down!

I agree that Vinny is not the in our longterm plans but I think Parcells will play the guy who he feels will give us the best chance of winning regardless of how Henson does this season. I think this battle will come down to performance and nothing more. I expect some difficulties for Henson but Dallas also has all this training camp,pre-season and after the season we head into another off-season to continue to work with Henson during next years mini camp,training camp and pre-season once again.

[Juke99]

If Testaverde had ANY mobility, this would already be settled. The only thing that will keep him on the bench is his lack of mobility.

As far as being a pure passer, there's never been a question about Vinny and in fact, earlier in his career, he had good mobility. But between age and the achilles injury, he is the proverbial statue in the pocket.

With this offensive line, that could be a huge problem even though he is adept at picking up blitzes and sensing pressure.

[Doomsday101]

If Testaverde had ANY mobility, this would already be settled. The only thing that will keep him on the bench is his lack of mobility.

As far as being a pure passer, there's never been a question about Vinny and in fact, earlier in his career, he had good mobility. But between age and the achilles injury, he is the proverbial statue in the pocket.

With this offensive line, that could be a huge problem even though he is adept at picking up blitzes and sensing pressure.

I would agree that if the O-line once again fails then Carter likely will get the job due to the fact he is more mobile however if Carter continues to throw picks once he gets outside the pocket as he has done then I don't think his mobility will mean that much. Mobility is only an asset if you can make the plays off of it

[BadKarma]

I agree. This situation hinges on whether we have the line to provide VT with adequate protection so he can become effective. He still has the arm to make all the throws and he's obviously a field general - not a bus driver.

QC gives us mobility and good pocket presence. I'm hoping he can turn it around and really make strides this season. Having a good running back, a possession-type receiver a better o-line, a more seasoned tight end, and a year experience in the same offense will help.

I would go out on the limb to say if QC loses the starting position due to a lackluster TC or bad game(s), he'll be on the sideline for the rest of the season where he belongs.

[Juke99]

I would agree that if the O-line once again fails then Carter likely will get the job due to the fact he is more mobile however if Carter continues to throw picks once he gets outside the pocket as he has done then I don't think his mobility will mean that much. Mobility is only an asset if you can make the plays off of it


I think that Carter's mobilty in the pocket served the team very well at times last year.

When he breaks the pocket and rears his arm to throw, I begin to scream at the TV set...yet, he never listens to me. :D

[Doomsday101]

I think that Carter's mobilty in the pocket served the team very well at times last year.

When he breaks the pocket and rears his arm to throw, I begin to scream at the TV set...yet, he never listens to me. :D

You TV set does that too? LOL I'm just glad I have been able to control myself and have not put something through the TV set. LOL

[Juke99]

You TV set does that too? LOL I'm just glad I have been able to control myself and have not put something through the TV set. LOL


Yeah, it's made in Japan.

Uh, never mind. :)

[Hollywood Henderson]

I expect the Oline to be improved enough to offer Vinny enough time and with Key and Witten I think they can beat any blitz situation with slants or quick passes...

[BadKarma]

I think that Carter's mobilty in the pocket served the team very well at times last year.

When he breaks the pocket and rears his arm to throw, I begin to scream at the TV set...yet, he never listens to me. :D

What a coincidence - I did the same thing too - but with profanity laced sentences! That typically was followed with the throwing objects around the room.

In the last 3-4 years of watching the Cowboys play, I've gotten so accustomed to hoping we didn't have to pass. I missed the days when we had a QB with an arm, accuracy and the ability to read defenses. Knowing when our QB dropped back, we were attacking the defense. Now we're relegated to a "keep it simple to stay in the game" type offensive mentality.

[joseephuss]

If Testaverde had ANY mobility, this would already be settled. The only thing that will keep him on the bench is his lack of mobility.

As far as being a pure passer, there's never been a question about Vinny and in fact, earlier in his career, he had good mobility. But between age and the achilles injury, he is the proverbial statue in the pocket.

With this offensive line, that could be a huge problem even though he is adept at picking up blitzes and sensing pressure.

Just curious. Why do you consider Vinny to be a pure passer? His career completion percentage is 56.3%. I am not promoting Quincy since his career completion percentage is also low at 56.2%, but I just don't see any big advantages of Vinny as the starter.

[LeonDixson]

I would agree that if the O-line once again fails then Carter likely will get the job due to the fact he is more mobile however if Carter continues to throw picks once he gets outside the pocket as he has done then I don't think his mobility will mean that much. Mobility is only an asset if you can make the plays off of it

I think it would hinge on whether Vinny is taking sacks because of his lack of mobility. If he picks up the blitz and throws the ball away, he could win the starting job even if the O-line isn't great. As you inferred, that would be better than escaping the blitz and throwing an INT, and just as good escaping the blitz and missing your receiver.

I'm on record as saying that this will be a good, close competition between VT and QC. I think QC wins, but must show a lot of improvement to hang on to the job. That is just a prediction, though, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see VT win the job. If QC plays like he played last year, VT WILL win the job.

[whittle]

If Q beats out Vinny, that means we are in the same boat as last year with Hutch as competition, very lacking. Give me an average QB that makes good decisions on the field and he beats Q easily.

How's that for a first post!

[NorthDalal]

yds avg att yds/g com com% TD I sacked Rating
VT 1385 7.0 198 197.9 123 62.1 7 2 6 90.6

QC 3302 6.2 505 206.4 292 57.8 17 21 37 71.4


Here's why Vinnie gets a shot.
Despite being thrown into action after Pennington's injury and starting slow he improved as the year went on and...

VT's numbers for 2003 outshine Quincy's.

TD/Int ratio is the most important consideration to winning and losing and VTs 7/2 is in stark contrast to QCs 17/21.
Despite the fact that Vinnie passed about 40% of the total attempts of QC he was even only sacked 6 times vs. QCs 37-- 19% of QCs total.

VT looks like the better "Bus Driver" based on last years numbers. I'm hoping for improvement from all our QBs but I've very eager to see Henson operate in live action.

[jterrell]

SI.com: Do you think Dallas' Vinny Testaverde has enough gas left in the tank to be an effective NFL starter?

King: We have no idea right now. That's going to be one of those things where [coach Bill] Parcells will truly have an open mind in training camp. I've heard Parcells say 1,000 times, "I go by what I see." I watched a Jets practice last year in training camp, where I saw Testaverde throw a ball 30, 45, 50 yards down field through the course of a long practice. This guy still has a great -- not just good -- arm. I believe that if Testaverde's better at throwing the intermediate and deep ball than Quincy Carter, Parcells isn't going to start Carter just because he's younger. It's just a gut feeling on my part, but I think Vinny's going to win the job.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/peter_king/06/16/king.qanda/index.html


Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Vinny has a real chance of unseating Carter

King thought Hutch was the hands down starter last season.
Dont jump to quick to use him as a voice of expertise.

There are plenty who think Vinny has a real shot and plenty who will likely be very wrong, AGAIN.

At some point that shame me once, shame me twice thing should kick in.

[jterrell]

yds avg att yds/g com com% TD I sacked Rating
VT 1385 7.0 198 197.9 123 62.1 7 2 6 90.6

QC 3302 6.2 505 206.4 292 57.8 17 21 37 71.4


Here's why Vinnie gets a shot.
Despite being thrown into action after Pennington's injury and starting slow he improved as the year went on and...

VT's numbers for 2003 outshine Quincy's.

TD/Int ratio is the most important consideration to winning and losing and VTs 7/2 is in stark contrast to QCs 17/21.
Despite the fact that Vinnie passed about 40% of the total attempts of QC he was even only sacked 6 times vs. QCs 37-- 19% of QCs total.

VT looks like the better "Bus Driver" based on last years numbers. I'm hoping for improvement from all our QBs but I've very eager to see Henson operate in live action.

I could post Vick's pathetic numbers or even Delhomme's and Vinny's would LOOK better. But neither would be worried by VT's arrival in camp. QC shouldnt either.

The Jets were a bad team and played like one. I saw Carter play VT on the same field and which one's team walked away the victor. Those numbers dont show you an overall game just passing stats. Troy Aikman had far superior STATS to Roger Staubach but he wasnt close to being as good of a QB IMHO.

BP had no desire to unseat QC. If he did he could have signed any number of guys. He chose VT because VT can be the backup and perform if needed while helping develop Henson for what may be 2 or 3 years down the road. BP likely has no doubt at all as to who will start. I dont think BP has doubted for one second since he was hired who would start at QB. He told us last offseason he always had a gut instinct that carter would start after watching just initial film work. Now he has seen him play in his system for ayear and did nothing more than offer 1.1 million up front to any QB for a one year deal and traded a future 3rd rounder for a prospect. Not exactly CLE adding Garcia or Wash adding Brunell or OAK adding Collins.

As it has been for the past 3 seasons Carter will likely start because he is still the best Qb on the roster. He could have been unseated but Dallas didnt add a guy to do the job. They had chances and passed.

[BHendri5]

King thought Hutch was the hands down starter last season.
Dont jump to quick to use him as a voice of expertise.

There are plenty who think Vinny has a real shot and plenty who will likely be very wrong, AGAIN.

At some point that shame me once, shame me twice thing should kick in.
You would think so. But some people likes to be put to shame all their life.

[BHendri5]

I could post Vick's pathetic numbers or even Delhomme's and Vinny's would LOOK better. But neither would be worried by VT's arrival in camp. QC shouldnt either.

The Jets were a bad team and played like one. I saw Carter play VT on the same field and which one's team walked away the victor. Those numbers dont show you an overall game just passing stats. Troy Aikman had far superior STATS to Roger Staubach but he wasnt close to being as good of a QB IMHO.

BP had no desire to unseat QC. If he did he could have signed any number of guys. He chose VT because VT can be the backup and perform if needed while helping develop Henson for what may be 2 or 3 years down the road. BP likely has no doubt at all as to who will start. I dont think BP has doubted for one second since he was hired who would start at QB. He told us last offseason he always had a gut instinct that carter would start after watching just initial film work. Now he has seen him play in his system for ayear and did nothing more than offer 1.1 million up front to any QB for a one year deal and traded a future 3rd rounder for a prospect. Not exactly CLE adding Garcia or Wash adding Brunell or OAK adding Collins.

As it has been for the past 3 seasons Carter will likely start because he is still the best Qb on the roster. He could have been unseated but Dallas didnt add a guy to do the job. They had chances and passed.



JT, that is just too much sense, too much. They see BP's and Jones's lips moving and they hear sounds coming from their vocal cords but somehow the words are skewed when it hits their brains.

[TwoDeep3]

When he breaks the pocket and rears his arm to throw, I begin to scream at the TV set...yet, he never listens to me.

Juke, there is a perfectly good explanation for why he doesn't hear you.

I would imagine my screaming combined with your sreaming makes it white noise and Carter can't understand either of us.

[TwoDeep3]

I saw Carter play VT on the same field and which one's team walked away the victor.

I love the convenience of a fluid argument.

Carter had the better team surrounding him.

Now this carterite will tell you all Quincy needs is players around him to show how good he can be.

Yet in this insipid defense of a player who turned the ball over more than any other on our team. A player who was limited by the coaching staff because of his lack of ability to protect the ball. A player who ranked at the bottom of the list of quarterbacks who started, is to suggest all things were equal and Quincy won the day against Vinny.

Yet in another thread you will find this same poster complaining about Carter not having the pieces surrounding him and thus he could not be all he could be.

How convenient that the argument about surrounding players only applies when it is a defense of Carter.

But when a comparison is made between two players, all things are equal and no surrounding team changes Vinny's lot in the game when Carter won.

The fact is Carter won because Dallas had a better defense.

And if you look at the game, you will see Carter threw one touchdown to AB.

The magnitude of that overwhelming play by Carter is truly amazing.

Here is a link so you can see for yourself.

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/2003-04-dal-nyj (http://)

[Juke99]

Just curious. Why do you consider Vinny to be a pure passer? His career completion percentage is 56.3%. I am not promoting Quincy since his career completion percentage is also low at 56.2%, but I just don't see any big advantages of Vinny as the starter.


One of the reasons Testaverde and Hackett didn't get along in NY was because Hackett's offense is a dink and dunk that suits Pennington. Testaverde is a "down the field" passer. So his completion percentage is going to be lower.

Our leading reciever last year was a fullback. And still Carter's completion percentage was 56%.

Look at Joe Namath's career completion percentage....it might not even be 50% but there has never been a better pure passer.

[Juke99]

Juke, there is a perfectly good explanation for why he doesn't hear you.

I would imagine my screaming combined with your sreaming makes it white noise and Carter can't understand either of us.


Well then we need a plan. You scream on the odd numbered possessions, I'll take the even.

[lwehlers]

i think that quincy will start the season as the starter. i also think that quincy will be on a short leash and if he continues to force the ball and not score points then parcells might bench carter and play vinny. i really believe no matter how vinny and henson play that carter will be the starter at the start.

i remember last year in the second skins game on how bad carter played and how mad parcells was at him on the sideline. i believe if we had a veteran qb he would have benched carter in that game and went with the veteran.

[InmanRoshi]

Anyone else find the irony of the people who chastise Quincy for throwing picks, yet praising a guy who once had a 13:35 ID/INT ratio in a single season in his second year in the league.

[Juke99]

Anyone else find the irony of the people who chastise Quincy for throwing picks, yet praising a guy who once had a 13:35 ID/INT ratio in a single season in his second year in the league.


What difference does it make if Testaverde threw 35 interceptions 16 years ago? Last I looked, it's 2004.

That's some twisted logic you have there.

[BHendri5]

What difference does it make if Testaverde threw 35 interceptions 16 years ago? Last I looked, it's 2004.

That's some twisted logic you have there.

It makes a lot of difference it proves a point that he made and it shoots hole in the negatve stuff you and others post about Carter.

But is it 2004, buckle up and get ready.

[TwoDeep3]

Does it mean we havew to wait another ten years for Carter to stop throwing INTs?

That surely is what your response indicates.

[BHendri5]

Does it mean we havew to wait another ten years for Carter to stop throwing INTs?

That surely is what your response indicates.

If we let you tell the story yeah. What QB does not throw INTs. Aikman has more INTS than CArter doesn't he?

[Juke99]

This logic about Testaverde throwing ints in his second season somehow having a bearing on our view of QC today is a bit mind boggling.

So let me get this straight.

Let's look at the beginning of Sandy Koufax's career. Should it have been held against him that in his second year his era was 4.91?

Once he matured, the rest is history.

Why should I care that Testaverde was an interception machine in his second season, 16 years ago?

If he performs better than Carter this year, that's all that matters.

But do you REALLY think that, if this staff had confidence in Carter, Testaverde would be told he is competing for the starting position?

When Bernie Kosar came to Dallas, was he told he'd be competing with Aikman for the starting spot?

This team has had a RICH tradition of QBs.

That we now have a 41 year old retread, who has played with a half dozen other teams, means we have become just like every other team that has brought in one and two year solutions.

So honestly, I am actually ROOTING for Carter against Testaverde because I'd like to keep the starting QB position "in house"

[InmanRoshi]

Just think its kind of funny that after the Arizona game in Quincy's second year certain people made up their minds about Quincy that he was never, ever, ever going to be any better than what they saw. Now these same people are heralding a guy who had an entire season's worth of Arizona games at that same exact point in his career.

As to the question as to whether we're going to have to wait ten years for Quincy ... well, if we're using Vinny as our example, we'll have to wait 7 years. Because it took Vinny seven years to have a year where he threw more TD's than INT's.

[big dog cowboy]

I really don't give a crap what King thinks of our QB situation. His opinion means nothing. It's not like he has a hotline to BP's office to find out any 'behind the scenes' info nobody else has. Considering the Viqueen game is almost 3 months away just about anything is possible. Vinny might be the starting QB by default by then. So could Hutch for that manner. Geez people it is only June!!!

[joseephuss]

One of the reasons Testaverde and Hackett didn't get along in NY was because Hackett's offense is a dink and dunk that suits Pennington. Testaverde is a "down the field" passer. So his completion percentage is going to be lower.

Our leading reciever last year was a fullback. And still Carter's completion percentage was 56%.

Look at Joe Namath's career completion percentage....it might not even be 50% but there has never been a better pure passer.

Anderson may have been the leading receiver, but Quincy also threw many balls to the recievers. Galloway averaged 19 yards a reception. This was a down the field offense with Anderson as a safety net. This was not a West coast intermediate dink and dunk system. It does not excuse the fact that Quincy needs to play better, improve his completion percentage and cut down his turnovers. I just don't see Vinny as being a great option if he earns the starting spot. Good backup? Yes, but I hope Quincy can beat him out. If he doesn't that means Quincy has stopped developing and has taken a step back. There is always Henson.

[followthestar]

carter's ball-handling skills are very good at pitch-outs, shuttle plays, etc and he has stated he will be tucking the ball and running more often. with a homerun threat at running back and physical receivers who will block downfield, i believe we'll be watching some 20+ yard runs by qc even in preseason. vt must be significantly better in the passing game, and it will be primarily a short to medium passing game imo. even at that, a lot of folks believe carter would have to come in to start anyway at some point, due to vt's age and lack of mobility...

[Charles]

I think Vinny Testervarde could win this competition on Knowledge of the game alone. But I don't think his body could hold up for an entire season. After watching Testervarde with the jets, I believe he can play very effectively for 6 to 8 games a season. Maybe make a play-off push like the Jets did in '98. They lost to the Great John Elway.( The both had very good running backs).

He's 41 years old. I don't think Vinny can run away from DLinemen for an entire season. Vinny is the perfect " other stick in the bag".