Advantage of Vikes and Cowboys

[KWilliamsAWinfield]

Hello everybody.

I just thought of typing down the who has the advantages at each position and let's see if you fans here agree with me or not.

Coaching

Bill Parcells vs Michael Tice

This is a no contest.

Advantage-Cowboys

Cornerbacks

Vikes-Antonie Winfield and Brian Williams
Cowboys-Terrance Newman and Derek Ross (Is he the starter)?

Even though with the addition of Antonie Winfield, I still have to give the advantage to the Cowboys, they have one of the best cornerbacks in the league.

Advantage-Cowboys

Safeties

Vikes-Corey Chavous and Brian Russell
Cowboys-Roy Williams and Darren Woodson

Even though Corey is a smart and good safety and I'm not sold on Brian Russell even though he has 9 inceptions last year but he's always at the same place at the right time. Roy Williams is one of the best safeties in the NFL and Darren Woodson is a good safety. This is a no contest.

Advantage-Cowboys

Linebackers

Cowboys-Dat Nguyen, Dexter Coakley
Vikes-EJ Henderson, Chris Caliborne

No contest again

Advantage-Cowboys

Defensive Line

Cowboys-Marcellus Wiley, La'Roi Glover, Willie Blade, Greg Ellis
Vikes-Kenny Mixon, Kevin Williams, Chris Hovan, Kenechi Udeze

Kevin Williams is the only stud, Chris Hovan haven't done crap but hopefully he will improve next year, Udeze is a rookie, and Kenny Mixon is nothing special, La'Roi Glover is a stud, Willie Blade is decent and so is Greg Ellis and Marcellus Wiley is unproven, I defeintly have to give the advantage to the Cowboys.

Advantage-Cowboys

Wide Receviers

Cowboys-Terry Glenn, Keyshaun Johnson, Antonio Bryant
Vikes-Randy Moss, Marcus Robinson, Nate Burelson

Even though the Cowboys have a good set of receivers, Randy Moss is the sole reason that gives the advantage to the Vikes.

Advantage-Vikes

Quarterback

Cowboys-Quincy Carter
Vikings-Duante Culpepper

Those 2 quarterbacks are similar in some ways, it's hard to give the advantage so I will call this a draw.

Advantage-Draw

Running Backs

Cowboys-Julius Jones, Aveion Cason, Erik Bickerstaff
Vikes-Michael Bennett, Onterrio Smith, Moe Williams

This is a no contest but even though Julius Jones is a rookie, I think he's gonna be the next Emmitt Smith.

Advantage-Vikings

Tight Ends

Cowboys-Dan Campbell, James Whalen, Jason Witten
Vikes-Jimmy Kleinsasser, Jermaine Wiggins, Sean Berton

Hmm, even though Jimmy is probably the best all around Tight End, I have to call this a draw.

Advantage-Draw

Offensive Line

Cowboys-Flozell Adams, Larry Allen, Torrin Tucker, Al Johnson
Vikes-Bryant McKinnie, Chris Birk, Mike Rosenthal, David Dixon

I have to give a slight edge to the Vikes

Advantage-Vikes

Special Teams

Vikes have the worst special teams while the Cowboys have good special teams

Advantage-Cowboys

Thoughts on this?

[Sarge]

Culpepper/Carter a draw?

I'll trade you Carter for Culpepper, straightup, right now.

[KWilliamsAWinfield]

Really? Even if he averages 1 fumble a game? (The only quarterback to do that). Even though Culpepper is more athetic and maybe a more accurate passer than Quincy Carter and a maybe better runner, never mind, I gotta give the edge to Culpepper. :o

[jamez25]

Cowboys-Terrance Newman and Derek Ross (Is he the starter)?

Ross is not the starter...Mario Edwards is.

[AJM1613]

Cowboys-Terrance Newman and Derek Ross (Is he the starter)?

Ross is not the starter...Mario Edwards is.
Pete Hunter is.

[KWilliamsAWinfield]

I thought Mario Edwards went to the Bucs or is that another player?

[jamez25]

I thought Mario Edwards went to the Bucs or is that another player?

he did...I was kidding :p

[ABQCOWBOY]

Hello everybody.

I just thought of typing down the who has the advantages at each position and let's see if you fans here agree with me or not.

Coaching

Bill Parcells vs Michael Tice

This is a no contest.

Advantage-Cowboys

Cornerbacks

Vikes-Antonie Winfield and Brian Williams
Cowboys-Terrance Newman and Derek Ross (Is he the starter)?

Even though with the addition of Antonie Winfield, I still have to give the advantage to the Cowboys, they have one of the best cornerbacks in the league.

Advantage-Cowboys

Safeties

Vikes-Corey Chavous and Brian Russell
Cowboys-Roy Williams and Darren Woodson

Even though Corey is a smart and good safety and I'm not sold on Brian Russell even though he has 9 inceptions last year but he's always at the same place at the right time. Roy Williams is one of the best safeties in the NFL and Darren Woodson is a good safety. This is a no contest.

Advantage-Cowboys

Linebackers

Cowboys-Dat Nguyen, Dexter Coakley
Vikes-EJ Henderson, Chris Caliborne

No contest again

Advantage-Cowboys

Defensive Line

Cowboys-Marcellus Wiley, La'Roi Glover, Willie Blade, Greg Ellis
Vikes-Kenny Mixon, Kevin Williams, Chris Hovan, Kenechi Udeze

Kevin Williams is the only stud, Chris Hovan haven't done crap but hopefully he will improve next year, Udeze is a rookie, and Kenny Mixon is nothing special, La'Roi Glover is a stud, Willie Blade is decent and so is Greg Ellis and Marcellus Wiley is unproven, I defeintly have to give the advantage to the Cowboys.

Advantage-Cowboys

Wide Receviers

Cowboys-Terry Glenn, Keyshaun Johnson, Antonio Bryant
Vikes-Randy Moss, Marcus Robinson, Nate Burelson

Even though the Cowboys have a good set of receivers, Randy Moss is the sole reason that gives the advantage to the Vikes.

Advantage-Vikes

Quarterback

Cowboys-Quincy Carter
Vikings-Duante Culpepper

Those 2 quarterbacks are similar in some ways, it's hard to give the advantage so I will call this a draw.

Advantage-Draw

Running Backs

Cowboys-Julius Jones, Aveion Cason, Erik Bickerstaff
Vikes-Michael Bennett, Onterrio Smith, Moe Williams

This is a no contest but even though Julius Jones is a rookie, I think he's gonna be the next Emmitt Smith.

Advantage-Vikings

Tight Ends

Cowboys-Dan Campbell, James Whalen, Jason Witten
Vikes-Jimmy Kleinsasser, Jermaine Wiggins, Sean Berton

Hmm, even though Jimmy is probably the best all around Tight End, I have to call this a draw.

Advantage-Draw

Offensive Line

Cowboys-Flozell Adams, Larry Allen, Torrin Tucker, Al Johnson
Vikes-Bryant McKinnie, Chris Birk, Mike Rosenthal, David Dixon

I have to give a slight edge to the Vikes

Advantage-Vikes

Special Teams

Vikes have the worst special teams while the Cowboys have good special teams

Advantage-Cowboys

Thoughts on this?

Is this Nors? :cool:

[KWilliamsAWinfield]

No this is not Nors.

[BrAinPaiNt]

No this is not Nors.
D. Ross was cut LAST season.

The starter opposite Newman will be either Hunter or Rookie Bruce Thornton....unless a vet is brought in later.

[zack]

I think you gave a favorable assessment, almost as if you were a Cowboys Fan. It should be a good game. I can't wait to see Newman cover Moss. Although I don't think anyone can really cover Moss. He always has a chip on his shoulder when he plays the 'Boys. I must say that the Metrodome is one of the loudest places I have been for a game. I was at the 1999 playoff game and that was loud!

[jterrell]

I think you gave a favorable assessment, almost as if you were a Cowboys Fan. It should be a good game. I can't wait to see Newman cover Moss. Although I don't think anyone can really cover Moss. He always has a chip on his shoulder when he plays the 'Boys. I must say that the Metrodome is one of the loudest places I have been for a game. I was at the 1999 playoff game and that was loud!

Pete Hunter will likely guard Moss and whoever does will get safety help from Darren Woodson or a nickel back depending on the set.

[zack]

Pete Hunter will likely guard Moss and whoever does will get safety help from Darren Woodson or a nickel back depending on the set.


Your right, they probably will go away from Newman. If I were Dallas, I would jam him at the line, and make nothing easy for him.

[jterrell]

Hello everybody.

I just thought of typing down the who has the advantages at each position and let's see if you fans here agree with me or not.

Coaching

Bill Parcells vs Michael Tice

This is a no contest.

Advantage-Cowboys

Cornerbacks

Vikes-Antonie Winfield and Brian Williams
Cowboys-Terrance Newman and Derek Ross (Is he the starter)?

Even though with the addition of Antonie Winfield, I still have to give the advantage to the Cowboys, they have one of the best cornerbacks in the league.

Advantage-Cowboys

Safeties

Vikes-Corey Chavous and Brian Russell
Cowboys-Roy Williams and Darren Woodson

Even though Corey is a smart and good safety and I'm not sold on Brian Russell even though he has 9 inceptions last year but he's always at the same place at the right time. Roy Williams is one of the best safeties in the NFL and Darren Woodson is a good safety. This is a no contest.

Advantage-Cowboys

Linebackers

Cowboys-Dat Nguyen, Dexter Coakley
Vikes-EJ Henderson, Chris Caliborne

No contest again

Advantage-Cowboys

Defensive Line

Cowboys-Marcellus Wiley, La'Roi Glover, Willie Blade, Greg Ellis
Vikes-Kenny Mixon, Kevin Williams, Chris Hovan, Kenechi Udeze

Kevin Williams is the only stud, Chris Hovan haven't done crap but hopefully he will improve next year, Udeze is a rookie, and Kenny Mixon is nothing special, La'Roi Glover is a stud, Willie Blade is decent and so is Greg Ellis and Marcellus Wiley is unproven, I defeintly have to give the advantage to the Cowboys.

Advantage-Cowboys

Wide Receviers

Cowboys-Terry Glenn, Keyshaun Johnson, Antonio Bryant
Vikes-Randy Moss, Marcus Robinson, Nate Burelson

Even though the Cowboys have a good set of receivers, Randy Moss is the sole reason that gives the advantage to the Vikes.

Advantage-Vikes

Quarterback

Cowboys-Quincy Carter
Vikings-Duante Culpepper

Those 2 quarterbacks are similar in some ways, it's hard to give the advantage so I will call this a draw.

Advantage-Draw

Running Backs

Cowboys-Julius Jones, Aveion Cason, Erik Bickerstaff
Vikes-Michael Bennett, Onterrio Smith, Moe Williams

This is a no contest but even though Julius Jones is a rookie, I think he's gonna be the next Emmitt Smith.

Advantage-Vikings

Tight Ends

Cowboys-Dan Campbell, James Whalen, Jason Witten
Vikes-Jimmy Kleinsasser, Jermaine Wiggins, Sean Berton

Hmm, even though Jimmy is probably the best all around Tight End, I have to call this a draw.

Advantage-Draw

Offensive Line

Cowboys-Flozell Adams, Larry Allen, Torrin Tucker, Al Johnson
Vikes-Bryant McKinnie, Chris Birk, Mike Rosenthal, David Dixon

I have to give a slight edge to the Vikes

Advantage-Vikes

Special Teams

Vikes have the worst special teams while the Cowboys have good special teams

Advantage-Cowboys

Thoughts on this?

The Vikes will have a big edge on offense: QB, OL, WR, RB all big edges.
Dallas on dEfense where they win all the positions if only slightly in some areas.

It should be a great game that could come done to the coaching aspect where Dallas would have an advantage. BUT, it is harder to outcoach a team in week 1. I thought BP was outcoached last year in week 1 by Dan Reeves. It was a singular occurence but I did think that at the time(and stated so here) and it seemed even moreso the case after watching both teams play the rest of the season.

[Yeagermeister]

he did...I was kidding :p

Your sig is too funny. Al is tha man :D

[LaTunaNostra]

Hello everybody.

I just thought of typing down the who has the advantages at each position and let's see if you fans here agree with me or not.

Thoughts on this?

My thoughts are "wow". This guy is no Redskins "we're the greatest talent in the history of the NFL at every position" fan.

Culpepper is currently vastly superior to Carter. Even if Quincy develops optimally, Daunte will always have the talent/size/complete package edge.

I'd have to give more than "a slight edge" to your oline, (I think it's the biggest asset you've got, and the deciding factor if we can't deal with it). Jones may quickly outstrip Bennett's ceiling, but as of now, he's done zilch.

A bit surprised as well that you were so tough on Hovan. He is a player. And Newman is darn good already, but he's got years to go to get as polished as Winfield. (Or maybe you're just sandbagging.) :D

Any thoughts on Ted Cottrell? Linehan? Those I'd be very interested to read.

[MichaelWinicki]

My thoughts are "wow". This guy is no Redskins "we're the greatest talent in the history of the NFL at every position" fan.

Culpepper is currently vastly superior to Carter. Even if Quincy develops optimally, Daunte will always have the talent/size/complete package edge.

I'd have to give more than "a slight edge" to your oline, (I think it's the biggest asset you've got, and the deciding factor if we can't deal with it). Jones may quickly outstrip Bennett's ceiling, but as of now, he's done zilch.

A bit surprised as well that you were so tough on Hovan. He is a player. And Newman is darn good already, but he's got years to go to get as polished as Winfield. (Or maybe you're just sandbagging.) :D

Any thoughts on Ted Cottrell? Linehan? Those I'd be very interested to read.

I agree with a lot of you say in this post Barb... except for the Newman point. I've watched Winfield for years now out here in western NY and he'll probably always be a better tackler than Newman... Winfield maybe the best tackling corner in the NFL. But as a coverage guy Newman is already better and when it comes to interceptions (as much as people griped about T. New last year) Newman already is the better interceptor.

Winfield or T. New? I'll take Newman every time.

[LaTunaNostra]

I thought BP was outcoached last year in week 1 by Dan Reeves. It was a singular occurence but I did think that at the time(and stated so here) and it seemed even moreso the case after watching both teams play the rest of the season.

Oh, yes, you are right....Bill was outcoached by his old buddy Dan Reeves.

I chalked some of that up to Carter not being named the starter til so late in the preseason, and the so-called "QB competition" limiting his reps, and delaying unit solidifcation and play expansion.

But it was what was done the FOLLOWING week in NY that showed Bill knew he had been outcoached.

In the press conf after the opener, Tuna mentioned he felt it was imperative to "get Terry more involved" .Q had only thrown to him once in ATlanta, and it was a completion down the middle called back on a Gurode penalty. But the next week Billl had Glenn in motion all over the place, and all the receivers made hay. Night and day from the week one level of complexity, and it worked until Bill ran into the stone wall of the fudnamental offensive problem - defenses realizing the run game was not deserving of 8 in the box and the ensuing zone coverages. A personnel issue more than coaching, and that adjustment hopefully came in the offseason.

This year we just have to see more of the real Sean Payton. I don't particularly like Bill's offensive play calling, and at times it's flat out infuriating. He's a defensive coach who can call offensive plays, which makes him pretty unique. But that doesn't mean he's as good at it as a real OC is. Now that Payton has passed up a head coaching job, and Bill has implemented at least the fundamental offensive philosophy, what reason is there not to let Sean call ALL the plays as well as design them?

None I can see.

Move over Tuna.

[LaTunaNostra]

I agree with a lot of you say in this post Barb... except for the Newman point. I've watched Winfield for years now out here in western NY and he'll probably always be a better tackler than Newman... Winfield maybe the best tackling corner in the NFL. But as a coverage guy Newman is already better and when it comes to interceptions (as much as people griped about T. New last year) Newman already is the better interceptor.

Winfield or T. New? I'll take Newman every time.
I won't argue that, Mike. As an AFC East fan, I saw plenty of Winfield and know his forte is tackling and some awesome open field hits, as well as run support.

But he's also s small guy who has had to develop a lot in the way of technique. He cuts well, very instinctive, and more than holds his own in pass coverage. Plus his run coverage is wonderful. Not afraid to patrol the periphery and come up for the big hits. He's a saftey in CB's clothing, but one who can really cover.

His career "weakness" has been turnovers, but what has really impressed me about him over the years is the defensed passes. He had an amazing amount of them a few years back. He had a notable few our game last year, and he plays way over his size in that respect.

T-New has better physical tools, speed, more agility and greater potential. But as of 2004, I think Antoine gets the edge if simply on experience and the fact he has played both our receivers often in the AFC East, and this is a player who makes it a rule to study and know his opponent as well as he can. One of those guys who didn't let size keep him from utiliizing every other asset or skill at his disposal.

[jobberone]

Actually I thought Tice was a joke at first but I have grown to admire him. Let's see what he does over the next couple of years. Parcells isn't as good as the near Godhood bestowed on him but he is still one of two or three tops in the game. I have him in my top ten with Brown, Lombardi, Shula, Landry, Knoll, Allen, Knox and the Bolts old coach (somebody help me can't remember the darn name) and currently the Pats coach. BB isn't in the others league at least yet but I put him in the top two in the league presently coaching followed by several others very close behind. So I give a good nod but not no brainer to Parcells.

Your OL is at present a positive. Ours is a question mark. We may be average with the left side picking up any slack from the right if it fails. We could be above average. There's the slim chance we will be superior but I say average will be close with a good chance to be above average here. So definite Vike advantage at present. We'll see come game time if we've caught up.

QB is no contest. Culpepper showed something last year. He's maturing and QC can't catch him probably at all much less this year 90+ probability IMO.

RB huge advantage at present to Vikes as well. If Jones is second coming of Smith we still don't have your depth or OL.

WR is close in my opinion with nod to Vikes due to Moss. In fact we might be better overall if AB has game (and is still on the team). Our only hope is to bust Moss up, frustrate him, put two men on him, don't screw up at all on coverage and leave him one on one, and most importantly not give him and Culpepper time to sit back and wait for him to get open. Because he will if he and Culpepper get enough time and we don't get into his head too much. Look for devastating hit on him from Williams. If this comes early and we have a pass rush then it's our advantage WR o/w Moss will hurt us.

Defense is no contest. Hope Tice can pull a rabbit out of the hat. If you have anywhere near decent defense you will make playoffs o/w I think it's a frustrating year for the Vikes despite a very good offensive football team.

[BHendri5]

Coaching -Us I agree
Cornerbacks- right now the Vikes has that edge. (Simply because Newman has yet to establish himseelf, he really did nothing last season, but get himself broken in. But from this season on we expect big things from him. and Winfield has experience and he has been a decent steady guy during his career.

Safeties- Us, slightly. The reason I say slightly is because Chavous is better at covering his man than Woodson and Williams, but both our safeties will bring the wood, and Brian russell I have never heard of, so he is an unknown entity.

Receivers - Vike, Moss has always eaten us up. But I have a feeling that pattern is coming to a halt, this season. But for now I'll give the Vikes the edge.

Quarterbacks - Before last season I would clearly have given the advantage to the Vikes. But after last season A draw is the best way to sum that up as of right now. But if I had to I would give a slim advantage to the Vikes because of Daunte's experience.

TEs- Clearly we have the advantage, no question. 2-1

[MichaelWinicki]

Coaching -Us I agree
Cornerbacks- right now the Vikes has that edge. (Simply because Newman has yet to establish himseelf, he really did nothing last season, but get himself broken in. But from this season on we expect big things from him. and Winfield has experience and he has been a decent steady guy during his career.

Safeties- Us, slightly. The reason I say slightly is because Chavous is better at covering his man than Woodson and Williams, but both our safeties will bring the wood, and Brian russell I have never heard of, so he is an unknown entity.

Receivers - Vike, Moss has always eaten us up. But I have a feeling that pattern is coming to a halt, this season. But for now I'll give the Vikes the edge.

Quarterbacks - Before last season I would clearly have given the advantage to the Vikes. But after last season A draw is the best way to sum that up as of right now. But if I had to I would give a slim advantage to the Vikes because of Daunte's experience.

TEs- Clearly we have the advantage, no question. 2-1


Newman has yet to establish himself?

He was the 3rd alternate at CB for the ProBowl last year. Sure the Probowl is a popularity contest to some extent but for a rookie corner to be considered like that means... yes he is established.

The Dallas defense wouldn't have done what they did last year without T. New.

Established last year... ProBowler this year.

[BHendri5]

The Vikes will have a big edge on offense: QB, OL, WR, RB all big edges.
Dallas on dEfense where they win all the positions if only slightly in some areas.

It should be a great game that could come done to the coaching aspect where Dallas would have an advantage. BUT, it is harder to outcoach a team in week 1. I thought BP was outcoached last year in week 1 by Dan Reeves. It was a singular occurence but I did think that at the time(and stated so here) and it seemed even moreso the case after watching both teams play the rest of the season.


I also thought BP got outcoached that first game last season.

[BHendri5]

Oh, yes, you are right....Bill was outcoached by his old buddy Dan Reeves.

I chalked some of that up to Carter not being named the starter til so late in the preseason, and the so-called "QB competition" limiting his reps, and delaying unit solidifcation and play expansion.

But it was what was done the FOLLOWING week in NY that showed Bill knew he had been outcoached.

In the press conf after the opener, Tuna mentioned he felt it was imperative to "get Terry more involved" .Q had only thrown to him once in ATlanta, and it was a completion down the middle called back on a Gurode penalty. But the next week Billl had Glenn in motion all over the place, and all the receivers made hay. Night and day from the week one level of complexity, and it worked until Bill ran into the stone wall of the fudnamental offensive problem - defenses realizing the run game was not deserving of 8 in the box and the ensuing zone coverages. A personnel issue more than coaching, and that adjustment hopefully came in the offseason.

This year we just have to see more of the real Sean Payton. I don't particularly like Bill's offensive play calling, and at times it's flat out infuriating. He's a defensive coach who can call offensive plays, which makes him pretty unique. But that doesn't mean he's as good at it as a real OC is. Now that Payton has passed up a head coaching job, and Bill has implemented at least the fundamental offensive philosophy, what reason is there not to let Sean call ALL the plays as well as design them?

None I can see.

Move over Tuna.


What about Mo Carthon?

[BHendri5]

Newman has yet to establish himself?

He was the 3rd alternate at CB for the ProBowl last year. Sure the Probowl is a popularity contest to some extent but for a rookie corner to be considered like that means... yes he is established.

The Dallas defense wouldn't have done what they did last year without T. New.

Established last year... ProBowler this year.


I saw him beaten too many times last season and miss tackles. Every single game he was beaten at least once diring the game.

He was not aggressive. Hopefully this season he can established himself and play aggressively, and play the ball.

the probowl is a popularity contest, and T-New benefitted from playing on America's teamm that is how he got some votes.

[KWilliamsAWinfield]

A bit surprised as well that you were so tough on Hovan. He is a player. And Newman is darn good already, but he's got years to go to get as polished as Winfield. (Or maybe you're just sandbagging.)

Yeah he is a player but however I did noticed that when Kevin moved to the DT position, BOOM, Hovan was a form of his older self and in the offseason, he said he wasn't the same and wants to lose weight to regain his quickness so I wouldn't be suprised to see Hovan be the player he once was fearing hovac into Quarterbacks! :D

Any thoughts on Ted Cottrell? Linehan? Those I'd be very interested to read.

I'm very excited about Ted Cottrell, he seems like a good fit for us. I am really hoping that he would improve our defense sightly better because our pass defense last year was just horrid!

As for Linehan, I like him but the knock on him is that he was so consertive on offense on the road but at home, the offense wasn't consertive and dominated, I'm hoping that Linehan would change things up on the road.

Cornerbacks- right now the Vikes has that edge. (Simply because Newman has yet to establish himseelf, he really did nothing last season, but get himself broken in. But from this season on we expect big things from him. and Winfield has experience and he has been a decent steady guy during his career.

I'm suprised to hear you say that and it's nice to hear, the only time I saw Winfield was the game last year when he was a Bill when he knocked Moss out and he's a player! I'm very excited to have him!

:)

[jobberone]

I saw him beaten too many times last season and miss tackles. Every single game he was beaten at least once diring the game.

He was not aggressive. Hopefully this season he can established himself and play aggressively, and play the ball.

the probowl is a popularity contest, and T-New benefitted from playing on America's teamm that is how he got some votes.


I think Newman was outstanding for a rookie. Every CB gets beat. Even the best get beat and teams picked on us passing because even though we were very good in the passing game it was not as good as our rush defense. Newman was as solid of a rookie corner since Walls. In fact I would say better since he played within the scheme, didn't have the team behind him Walls had and Walls always took chances which is why is had so many picks. I left out Smith in the recent years.

I think Newman was a rock over there. So much so they started picking on Mario instead of the rookie.

[LaTunaNostra]

What about Mo Carthon?

Mo Carthon is a fabulous positions coach - has much input on the line strategy, not just the runners', and works on overall game planning for every game. I read last season he is more the strategist, and Sean the tactician, Sarge. Bill of course was General Patton last year, when he should, ideally, have been Eisenhower.

Mo is a great teacher of technique and a dedicated teacher in general and has considerable executive skills. Bill has been grooming him for years for a HC job, and I think he'd make a good one. He wouldn't be the first HC who was never a DC or an OC. Reid, Edwards, and Del Rio come to mind. The way responsibility is structured today, overall decision making skills and leadership/delegation qualities trump off or def coordinating specialization. How many HCs call their own plays today, or want to? THe HC has to know enough about both sides of the ball to lead, make the coordinators accountable, but doesn't have to be a X's and O's play calling "specialist" on either side.

Mo doesn't design or call plays. He didn't at the Jets or Lions either. The titles are mismatched in Dallas. And I think Bill did this deliberately to set up both Sean and Mo for future jobs, and eliminate any lateral moves (which can only happen with a team's permission..Bill always gives it to guys who want to move on, but he wants them to move UP , not just on.)

In reality, Sean is the OC and Mo the Assistant Head coach. One of the biggest jumps I think we see next season is the increased degree of comfort and complexity the offensive staff has together. Jerry went to considerable expense to keep Zimmer and Payton here. It should pay off.

[LaTunaNostra]

Actually I thought Tice was a joke at first but I have grown to admire him.

Ditto, those buffoonish clock performances on draft days were misleading. His quiet no nonsense oline coach demeanor was too. He doesn't have a Billick's glibness or Tuna's personality, so I think he got overlooked. And dissed as a HC like Millen in Detroit did as a GM - but both guys are coming on now.

Seems he knows what he's doing, and I have a lot more respect for him now. He didn't try to make that O all about Moss, which had to be a temptation. He's really a Tuna, trench oriented, balance coach with a phenomenal talent at wideout. When he gets a few more defensive players, watch out.

[BHendri5]

I think Newman was outstanding for a rookie. Every CB gets beat. Even the best get beat and teams picked on us passing because even though we were very good in the passing game it was not as good as our rush defense. Newman was as solid of a rookie corner since Walls. In fact I would say better since he played within the scheme, didn't have the team behind him Walls had and Walls always took chances which is why is had so many picks. I left out Smith in the recent years.

I think Newman was a rock over there. So much so they started picking on Mario instead of the rookie.


He played alright, but he was a rookie. Yes CBs get beat. But his play was well like a rookie. He did not scare anyone from him. If I had a choice I would have thrown to Edwards side of the field more also. You had a 50/50 chance of your receiver getting behind Edwards and scoring, or having and additional 15 yards or more tacked on for Pass interference.

But I would not have hesitated to throw at either cornerback, Newman, your receiver may not have beaten him deep, but you always could count on the reception being made, because he was not aggressive and if you hit your receiver on the comeback pattern twice, you could beat Newman and the safety on a stop and go pattern next.

He did alright, I only had a problem with the passiveness our DBs had, due to scheme or their own confidence.
I feel T-New will shine this season, he has a season under his belt, I feel he will be off the chart this season.

I'm not knocking him, I'm just saying, he was not a Deion Sanders as a rookie.

[LaTunaNostra]

Yeah he is a player but however I did noticed that when Kevin moved to the DT position, BOOM, Hovan was a form of his older self and in the offseason, he said he wasn't the same and wants to lose weight to regain his quickness so I wouldn't be suprised to see Hovan be the player he once was fearing hovac into Quarterbacks! :D

I'm an unabashed Boston College homer and for Chris have a particular fondness.

You're the expert here, but I've noticed even quality rookie DT's like Williams (and the Jets Robertson) need considerable baby sitting. It's just not an immediate impact position, and often it's the vet whose stats suffered in that rookie year who is holding the fort. I suspect Chris was helping the end out too?

Any thoughts on Ted Cottrell? Linehan? Those I'd be very interested to read.

I'm very excited about Ted Cottrell, he seems like a good fit for us. I am really hoping that he would improve our defense sightly better because our pass defense last year was just horrid!

As for Linehan, I like him but the knock on him is that he was so consertive on offense on the road but at home, the offense wasn't consertive and dominated, I'm hoping that Linehan would change things up on the road.

As a Jets fan, I can vouch that Ted's main problem were in personnel. Of the four dinosaurs whose lack of speed saddled him thee past few years, only one, CB Beasely, has been signed by another team upon their release, and he sucks and won't be starting. Mo Lewis, Marvin Jones, and Sam Garnes had had it, and the fact they're all unemployed, even as backups, tells you Ted was manning a defense with linebacker and safety speed that was so sub NFL par as to be self-defeating.

He was the sacrificial lamb this yaer. And we all knew it. But watch out for "slow starts" from Ted. I don't know it that s all on him, or partly on Herm Edwards "player friendly camps", but we'll see soon.

Ted is a 3-4 guy hired to play 4-3 in NY and he did as best he could with the aging personnel, and sad first round draft picks like Bryan Thomas. The biggest stab in the back he got was by the FO when it "unloaded" Aaron Glenn and Marcus Coleman in the Houston expansion draft. Great for our salary cap, but a death blow to Ted. He had two excellent defensive ends, and last year the rookie DT. But linebackers way past their primes, and his top corner was Donnie Edward. Beasley was no starter, Garnes peaked years ago with the Jints, and it is very doubtful if Jon McGraw will ever be a quality starter.

ALL things considered, Teddy OVER-ACHIEVED in NY.

What I know about your OC is he keeps it simple, and plays a very reactive offense. The number of defenders in the box determines pass or run, exclusvely. From what you say, sounds like he just takes more chances with the pass at home.
I'm hoping Zimmer throws so many different looks at Daunte, he plays like a rookie again. We can't stop Moss, but could render him superfluous, if we could stop DC from getting into a rythem. That means our dline has to penetrate your fine oline. So we have to both outsmart and outmuscle to win, imho.

Cornerbacks- right now the Vikes has that edge. (Simply because Newman has yet to establish himseelf, he really did nothing last season, but get himself broken in. But from this season on we expect big things from him. and Winfield has experience and he has been a decent steady guy during his career.

That's a quote from someones else's post..but I wouldn't call Winfield "a decent steady guy". He's more than that, even with the low number of turnovers. He hits hard and quick and changes games by putting fear into receviers from the opening whistle. A la Roy Williams. God only knows I've Winfield decapitate his ex OSU teammate Glenn into a trance.

But with Keyshawn he'll have his hands full.

I'm suprised to hear you say that and it's nice to hear, the only time I saw Winfield was the game last year when he was a Bill when he knocked Moss out and he's a player! I'm very excited to have him!

:)

He SHOULD have been A JET, but enjoy!!!

[KWilliamsAWinfield]

I suspect Chris was helping the end out too?

No, Chris never played the DE position before, Lance Johnson did even though he was playing part time and he did very well, hell, he got the game ball for getting a inception returned for a touchdown against Denver I think.

Thanks for the information on Ted Cottrell, I also remember other Jet fans saying that it's Ted's main problem is the personnel also. I'm curious to see what Ted can do with the young core of our linebackers.

[jobberone]

He played alright, but he was a rookie. Yes CBs get beat. But his play was well like a rookie. He did not scare anyone from him. If I had a choice I would have thrown to Edwards side of the field more also. You had a 50/50 chance of your receiver getting behind Edwards and scoring, or having and additional 15 yards or more tacked on for Pass interference.

But I would not have hesitated to throw at either cornerback, Newman, your receiver may not have beaten him deep, but you always could count on the reception being made, because he was not aggressive and if you hit your receiver on the comeback pattern twice, you could beat Newman and the safety on a stop and go pattern next.

He did alright, I only had a problem with the passiveness our DBs had, due to scheme or their own confidence.
I feel T-New will shine this season, he has a season under his belt, I feel he will be off the chart this season.

I'm not knocking him, I'm just saying, he was not a Deion Sanders as a rookie.

I think he was solid but not All-Pro. And the lack of aggression you speak of was the scheme more than the player. If someone steps up the play on the other side, we have a pass rush and the safeties are safer (better cover) you will see a more aggressive defense which includes playing tighter and playing for the ball more looking for more turnovers. That is where this defense needs to head to be championship quality IMO.

Newman stayed within the parameters given him. Sure he gets a couple more picks and defensed balls with more experience but that's it unless he's turned loose. He does need to improve his tackling and run defense and the added weight and muscle mass should do the trick here. He was 180 dripping wet and I suspect was doing 90% of his ability. He has better run defense than Deion ever did (guess that was a meaningless remark) but there is a point there somewhere.

Parcells and Zimmer did a wonderful job keeping us in ballgames and forcing teams to drive for the most part. All this without a good pass rush and no running game. Remarkable results beyond 99% of everyones expectations.

[BlueStar II]

Even though I'm not trying to claim the Vikes QB as being something super special here, I'd still take him over Carter if given the chance.

[AdamJT13]

the probowl is a popularity contest, and T-New benefitted from playing on America's teamm that is how he got some votes.

That's not even close to being true. Newman wasn't one of the top vote-getters among fans, and players and coaches don't vote for anyone just because they're on "America's Team" -- especially rookies.

[LaTunaNostra]

I suspect Chris was helping the end out too?

No, Chris never played the DE position before, Lance Johnson did even though he was playing part time and he did very well, hell, he got the game ball for getting a inception returned for a touchdown against Denver I think.

Thanks for the information on Ted Cottrell, I also remember other Jet fans saying that it's Ted's main problem is the personnel also. I'm curious to see what Ted can do with the young core of our linebackers.
RM84 I didn't mean that Chris played at DE but that maybe he helped out the DE a lot if there was a kid there. Lance Johnson, huh? I knew it wasn't Mike Strahan. :D

So sandwiched between a Lance Johnson and a rookie, I expect he might have been doing a Glover, which is elevating the play of the guys beside you.

[jay cee]

I think you gave a favorable assessment, almost as if you were a Cowboys Fan. It should be a good game. I can't wait to see Newman cover Moss. Although I don't think anyone can really cover Moss. He always has a chip on his shoulder when he plays the 'Boys. I must say that the Metrodome is one of the loudest places I have been for a game. I was at the 1999 playoff game and that was loud!

:eek: when he said Carter and Culpepper was a draw, I had to scroll back to the top to see if he was a Cowboy fan. A crazy one at that. :D I think he was just trying not to start a flame war.

Thanks for posting Moss84. I think the Cowboys may have a slight advantage if they work out that 2nd corner spot. But if Culpepper and Moss start clicking, I can see them getting run over. Isn't the game in Minnesota?

[Ken]

I'm an unabashed Boston College homer and for Chris have a particular fondness.

You're the expert here, but I've noticed even quality rookie DT's like Williams (and the Jets Robertson) need considerable baby sitting. It's just not an immediate impact position, and often it's the vet whose stats suffered in that rookie year who is holding the fort. I suspect Chris was helping the end out too?



As a Jets fan, I can vouch that Ted's main problem were in personnel. Of the four dinosaurs whose lack of speed saddled him thee past few years, only one, CB Beasely, has been signed by another team upon their release, and he sucks and won't be starting. Mo Lewis, Marvin Jones, and Sam Garnes had had it, and the fact they're all unemployed, even as backups, tells you Ted was manning a defense with linebacker and safety speed that was so sub NFL par as to be self-defeating.

He was the sacrificial lamb this yaer. And we all knew it. But watch out for "slow starts" from Ted. I don't know it that s all on him, or partly on Herm Edwards "player friendly camps", but we'll see soon.

Ted is a 3-4 guy hired to play 4-3 in NY and he did as best he could with the aging personnel, and sad first round draft picks like Bryan Thomas. The biggest stab in the back he got was by the FO when it "unloaded" Aaron Glenn and Marcus Coleman in the Houston expansion draft. Great for our salary cap, but a death blow to Ted. He had two excellent defensive ends, and last year the rookie DT. But linebackers way past their primes, and his top corner was Donnie Edward. Beasley was no starter, Garnes peaked years ago with the Jints, and it is very doubtful if Jon McGraw will ever be a quality starter.

ALL things considered, Teddy OVER-ACHIEVED in NY.

What I know about your OC is he keeps it simple, and plays a very reactive offense. The number of defenders in the box determines pass or run, exclusvely. From what you say, sounds like he just takes more chances with the pass at home.
I'm hoping Zimmer throws so many different looks at Daunte, he plays like a rookie again. We can't stop Moss, but could render him superfluous, if we could stop DC from getting into a rythem. That means our dline has to penetrate your fine oline. So we have to both outsmart and outmuscle to win, imho.



That's a quote from someones else's post..but I wouldn't call Winfield "a decent steady guy". He's more than that, even with the low number of turnovers. He hits hard and quick and changes games by putting fear into receviers from the opening whistle. A la Roy Williams. God only knows I've Winfield decapitate his ex OSU teammate Glenn into a trance.

But with Keyshawn he'll have his hands full.



He SHOULD have been A JET, but enjoy!!!

LaTunaNostra,

I know you have been posting for quite sometime, but for some reason it never struck me until now that you are a female (You are right?) and are absolutely brilliant when it comes to talking football. No offense or anything. (Parcellsism) :)


Your intimate knowledge of the game is something I have never encountered from a women before, even those who work professionally covering football.

How long have you been a fan of the game and how did you aquire this knowledge?

[KWilliamsAWinfield]

Yeah, the game is in Minnesota.

[big dog cowboy]

Thoughts on this?

Yeah, we will win.

[KWilliamsAWinfield]

Yeah, we will win.

What if they don't?

[LaTunaNostra]

LaTunaNostra,

I know you have been posting for quite sometime, but for some reason it never struck me until now that you are a female ;)

Not only a female but a girly girl. What gave me away Ken, the "babysitting" reference? Or some Terry Glenn post? ;)

How long have you been a fan of the game and how did you aquire this knowledge?

Nothing but growing up amongst a football fanatic family, and getting indoctrinated/addicted at about age six. (first Cowboys game I remember, 1971, 52-10 over my Jets) You couldn't ignore the football talk and play all around you,(3 brothers) so had to try to beat them by picking a team other than the Giants to root for.

I thank my late Dad tho, on this Father's Day, for this wonderful gift he gave me - luv of da game.

[Ken]

Not only a female but a girly girl. What gave me away Ken, the "babysitting" reference? Or some Terry Glenn post? ;)



Nothing but growing up amongst a football fanatic family, and getting indoctrinated/addicted at about age six. (first Cowboys game I remember, 1971, 52-10 over my Jets) You couldn't ignore the football talk and play all around you,(3 brothers) so had to try to beat them by picking a team other than the Giants to root for.

I thank my late Dad tho, on this Father's Day, for this wonderful gift he gave me - luv of da game.

That's awesome. Wish my wife was brought up the same way........ :)

I can relate to picking another team other than the Giants as well. Growing up in NJ, my dad was the Giants fan and my older brother was a fanatic Redskins fan. I couldn't be a follower and I couldn't stand my brother's Redskin elitism. I just knew, at a very early age, that the cowboys had to be my team. They were the Natural enemy of both my brother and Dad.

Needless to say, during my teenage years, the early 90s were very good to me.