Carters projected stats game by game , can he do this?

[MikeD17]

267 1 TD 1 INT VIKINGS AWAY W
252 2 0 BROWNS HOME W
189 0 1 REDSKIN AWAY W
284 3 0 GIANTS HOME W
242 2 0 STEELER HOME W
171 1 2 PACKERS AWAY L
313 3 0 LIONS HOME W
176 1 1 BENGALS AWAY W
202 1 1 EAGLES HOME W
159 0 3 RAVENS AWAY L
277 2 0 BEARS HOME W
303 2 2 HAWKS AWAY L
291 2 1 SAINTS HOME W
150 1 2 EAGLES AWAY L
244 2 0 SKINS HOME W
257 2 1 GIANTS AWAY W

YARDS TDS INTS
3,777 25 15

In doing these numbers I noticed I felt alot more strongly about Home Games then I did road games espically those games played on grass . There's a big difference i think in what his home game stats will be against his away game numbers . we shall see but i feel these numbers are more then realistic.

[Wimbo]

"YARDS TDS INTS
3,777 25 15"

Carter is playing in Canada this year? ;)

[blindzebra]

267 1 TD 1 INT VIKINGS AWAY W
252 2 0 BROWNS HOME W
189 0 1 REDSKIN AWAY W
284 3 0 GIANTS HOME W
242 2 0 STEELER HOME W
171 1 2 PACKERS AWAY L
313 3 0 LIONS HOME W
176 1 1 BENGALS AWAY W
202 1 1 EAGLES HOME W
159 0 3 RAVENS AWAY L
277 2 0 BEARS HOME W
303 2 2 HAWKS AWAY L
291 2 1 SAINTS HOME W
150 1 2 EAGLES AWAY L
244 2 0 SKINS HOME W
257 2 1 GIANTS AWAY W

YARDS TDS INTS
3,777 25 15

In doing these numbers I noticed I felt alot more strongly about Home Games then I did road games espically those games played on grass . There's a big difference i think in what his home game stats will be against his away game numbers . we shall see but i feel these numbers are more then realistic.

How about a reasonable projection based on history, factoring in experience and hard work, with better players around him.

If Jones is for real, we may throw less than last year.

Best case:

3150 yards, 18 TDs, 15 INTs

More likely:

3025 yards, 15 TDs, 17 INTs

The question is if either of my predictions will be enough for Quincy to keep his job?

[MikeD17]

The only way to get a real idea of what you think his numbers will be is if you go game by game , try it and see what you come up with , I was sort of surprised with the amount of yardage I believe he'll gain this year and the difference i came up with in regard to his home and away numbers.

[Doomsday101]

The only way to get a real idea of what you think his numbers will be is if you go game by game , try it and see what you come up with , I was sort of surprised with the amount of yardage I believe he'll gain this year and the difference i came up with in regard to his home and away numbers.

Guy we could all sit here and make up numbers what is the use?

[Jimz31]

Looking at those numbers by game....and they aren't all that impressive.

However, the end result is kinda surprising.

If he gets 25 TD's to 15 INT's this year, that would be a pretty good step up, however, there are still those that would point out his INT numbers and blame those numbers for the losses....even though there were only 4 of them in your projection.

[Doomsday101]

Looking at those numbers by game....and they aren't all that impressive.

However, the end result is kinda surprising.

If he gets 25 TD's to 15 INT's this year, that would be a pretty good step up, however, there are still those that would point out his INT numbers and blame those numbers for the losses....even though there were only 4 of them in your projection.

For myself I would ecstatic if QC put up those numbers and showed improvement on his accuracy. As for blaming Carter for a loss, I can only speak for myself but I have never placed a single loss on him over the last 3 years. Winning and losing is a team thing. What I have consistently pointed out is his own lack of performance and constant mistakes. If he can correct that and start producing the great I have no problem at all with Carter but as long as he continues to play as he has then yes I have big problems with Carter.

[Jimz31]

For myself I would ecstatic if QC put up those numbers and showed improvement on his accuracy. As for blaming Carter for a loss, I can only speak for myself but I have never placed a single loss on him over the last 3 years. Winning and losing is a team thing. What I have consistently pointed out is his own lack of performance and constant mistakes. If he can correct that and start producing the great I have no problem at all with Carter but as long as he continues to play as he has then yes I have big problems with Carter.

Exactly what I have been saying. It's a team sport.

I've been saying that he'd better have fixed his mistakes or I would also be calling for his head this year.

[TheHustler]

the numbers could be realistic, as long as he gets a bit more accurate. i'd be quite happy with them.

[Hostile]

In the immortal words of Aldo Nova....

"Life is just a fantasy
Can you live this fantasy life?"

[Doomsday101]

Exactly what I have been saying. It's a team sport.

I've been saying that he'd better have fixed his mistakes or I would also be calling for his head this year.

Then the only differance between you and I is I expected a bit more from him this past season considering not much was being asked from the QB spot. Heck for me if Cater threw only 15 TD and half as many ints I would be thrilled about that. Parcells wants ball control which when you get right down to it means not turning the ball over which Carter did 28 times last year (Ints and fumbles)

[Reef Engineer]

... and this is based on ... ?????

Without knowing who will make the team, who will be healthy, who's healthy on the opponent side, how the matchups are doing, etc, it is ridiculous to even speculate as to what the numbers will be.

We might have an awesome OL with a fantastic running game where the QB will not be asked to do much of anything so the numbers will be down or we could have a sieve of a line where the running game is stopped dead in its tracks and require more out of the QB. With the porous line, however, you'd expect the numbers to not be so great (higher INTs) due to being rushed, etc.

If it makes you feel better to pull numbers out of the air, more power to ya. Me - I'd rather wait and see who we put out on the field before making predictions on who's going to do what.

[TruBlueCowboy]

267 1 TD 1 INT VIKINGS AWAY W
252 2 0 BROWNS HOME W
189 0 1 REDSKIN AWAY W
284 3 0 GIANTS HOME W
242 2 0 STEELER HOME W
171 1 2 PACKERS AWAY L
313 3 0 LIONS HOME W
176 1 1 BENGALS AWAY W
202 1 1 EAGLES HOME W
159 0 3 RAVENS AWAY L
277 2 0 BEARS HOME W
303 2 2 HAWKS AWAY L
291 2 1 SAINTS HOME W
150 1 2 EAGLES AWAY L
244 2 0 SKINS HOME W
257 2 1 GIANTS AWAY W

YARDS TDS INTS
3,777 25 15

In doing these numbers I noticed I felt alot more strongly about Home Games then I did road games espically those games played on grass . There's a big difference i think in what his home game stats will be against his away game numbers . we shall see but i feel these numbers are more then realistic.

Didn't you bet Hostile $100 in the chat room that Quincy would have one of the top five quarterback ratings in the NFL this year? For your sake, you better hope he throws for 4,000 and 30 touchdowns. ;)

[MikeD17]

When I did the numbers i factored in an improved offensive line and 1,100 yard rusher in Julius Jones


I really feel these numbers are not out of reach at all for Carter this season , its a projection of course theres many variables to consider but this is my best educated guess of what I feel can occur .

[MikeD17]

Yes i did make that bet except it was top 3 , I also bet everyonelse I believe thats his screen name Carter will have more tds then Ints this season for another 100. And Cowboy chris that KJ will have more yards then Galloway ...so Im stacked with bets on this board.


In anycase if Carter Finishes with 3,777 yards 25 tds 15 ints and say a 6o percent completation rate , Ill have a very good chance, it could happen

[MikeD17]

top three in the NFC , LETS BE CLEAR ON THAT

[BrAinPaiNt]

In the immortal words of Aldo Nova....

"Life is just a fantasy
Can you live this fantasy life?"


Great song...even if it was from a one hit wonder.

Who knows what QC will do this year.

As the original poster said QC does tend to thrown more INTs on the road...and he also throws more INTs when rolling out. I think some of those were on designed plays and some were not.

We will have to see if the offense is switched to keep him from rolling out and passing as much...or if he improves in that area.

[Hostile]

Didn't you bet Hostile $100 in the chat room that Quincy would have one of the top five quarterback ratings in the NFL this year? For your sake, you better hope he throws for 4,000 and 30 touchdowns. ;)
$100 for top 3 in the NFC based on QB rating. If Q fails to qualify for any reason I win. If he fails to be top 3 in the NFC I win.

MikeD17 is my personal bank. :D

[Hostile]

Great song...even if it was from a one hit wonder.

Who knows what QC will do this year.

As the original poster said QC does tend to thrown more INTs on the road...and he also throws more INTs when rolling out. I think some of those were on designed plays and some were not.

We will have to see if the offense is switched to keep him from rolling out and passing as much...or if he improves in that area.
I love that song.

[MikeD17]

The only Qb's im worried about our 3 Hasselback, Favre, Culpepper

I think he can beat the rest out this season, its going to be close

[Reef Engineer]

MikeD17 is my personal bank. :D

Damn, that's better than buying bonds ... can I take out loans against him? :D

[Hostile]

The only Qb's im worried about our 3 Hasselback, Favre, Culpepper

I think he can beat the rest out this season, its going to be close
You need to also fear several other guys. I'd name names, but will refrain.

Heck I think Joey Harrington could rank higher.

[Hostile]

Damn, that's better than buying bonds ... can I take out loans against him? :D
Hey Reef.

Easy money.

Took off from H & M Landing aboard the "Big Game 90." Fishing wasn't that good but I did catch a 15 pound albacore.

[MikeD17]

Is there a way to go back to this thread through out the season , I want to compare the numbers with what hes actually doing . Also to make some of you eat your words haha

[Hostile]

Is there a way to go back to this thread through out the season , I want to compare the numbers with what hes actually doing . Also to make some of you eat your words haha
You could bookmark it in your personal bookmarks.

[ChrisFul]

Then the only differance between you and I is I expected a bit more from him this past season considering not much was being asked from the QB spot. Heck for me if Cater threw only 15 TD and half as many ints I would be thrilled about that. Parcells wants ball control which when you get right down to it means not turning the ball over which Carter did 28 times last year (Ints and fumbles)

28 times?

God, why do people think Carter fumbles all the time. This is the 4th or 5th time i've either noticed someone not checking the facts or outright lying about Carter's turnovers.

Carter threw 21 Ints and fumbled 10 times during the regular season. Only 3 of those fumbles were lost, and of the 10, Carter recovered 4 of them himself. That's 24 turnovers. If you are gonna argue, at least argue with the right numbers.

[MikeD17]

Good idea thanks

[Reef Engineer]

Took off from H & M Landing aboard the "Big Game 90." Fishing wasn't that good but I died catch a 15 pound albacore.

Bummer about that ... gave me a scare with the above (highlighted for emphasis!)

I didn't go to Long Beach as planned since my buddy is STILL vacationing in Italy (2 months out there the !) so will probably go up this weekend instead.

[blindzebra]

28 times?

God, why do people think Carter fumbles all the time. This is the 4th or 5th time i've either noticed someone not checking the facts or outright lying about Carter's turnovers.

Carter threw 21 Ints and fumbled 10 times during the regular season. Only 3 of those fumbles were lost, and of the 10, Carter recovered 4 of them himself. That's 24 turnovers. If you are gonna argue, at least argue with the right numbers.

24 times, is that all, hell let's call the hall of fame.

This is also a pot/kettle situation being that you were misquoting facts left and right just before you stopped posting.

Maybe I should declare this debate over right now, ya think?

I win! ;)

[Hostile]

Bummer about that ... gave me a scare with the above (highlighted for emphasis!)

I didn't go to Long Beach as planned since my buddy is STILL vacationing in Italy (2 months out there the !) so will probably go up this weekend instead.
Supposedly there was a small earthquake the mornign after we left and it made the fish lethargic. The dock workers claim we did better than other charters.

Sea was a bit rough. I was laughing at how many people were yacking even though they had patches and took stuff for motion sickness.

I took nothing and was enjoying the 10 foot swells. That was fun as hell.

If MikeD17 will make more bets with me I can do these trips more often. he wanted the bet to be $200 but I already feel like I am stealing.

[jterrell]

267 1 TD 1 INT VIKINGS AWAY W
252 2 0 BROWNS HOME W
189 0 1 REDSKIN AWAY W
284 3 0 GIANTS HOME W
242 2 0 STEELER HOME W
171 1 2 PACKERS AWAY L
313 3 0 LIONS HOME W
176 1 1 BENGALS AWAY W
202 1 1 EAGLES HOME W
159 0 3 RAVENS AWAY L
277 2 0 BEARS HOME W
303 2 2 HAWKS AWAY L
291 2 1 SAINTS HOME W
150 1 2 EAGLES AWAY L
244 2 0 SKINS HOME W
257 2 1 GIANTS AWAY W

YARDS TDS INTS
3,777 25 15

In doing these numbers I noticed I felt alot more strongly about Home Games then I did road games espically those games played on grass . There's a big difference i think in what his home game stats will be against his away game numbers . we shall see but i feel these numbers are more then realistic.

I certianly think he can do that. The schedule starts with very mediocre teams and he could have a great start. Unlike blindzebra I expect a better rushing attack to help QC. Obviously more first downs means more plays total means more passing plays. Dallas actually ran alot last year, they just didnt run very far per attempt.

I also expect having first down artist KJ to help alot.

What many Carter detractors dont accept or acknowledge that I do is that Carter was fine last year until he tried to do too much. When he didnt have guys around him to make plays it got ugly. He should have better offensive weapons this year. Witten was better last year and should have improved even more, Jone sis certianly an upgrade over THam, KJ as mentionned is a legit target to move chains.

He should have amuch better feel for the offense and for game plans versus certian teams having finally been in the same offense for 2 years.

All that being said, he was healthier last year than can be expected again. The offense as a whole isnt deep so someone will likely drop and that could hurt QC and the team in general.

[jterrell]

You need to also fear several other guys. I'd name names, but will refrain.

Heck I think Joey Harrington could rank higher.
You wanna bet QC versus Harrington? I'll give you 5 QB rating points and Harrington, i.e. QC -5 for me. Minimum 300 pass attempts for both or bet is waived. We can wager a 6 pack, a t-shirt, a lapdan... err 20 bucks.

[Hostile]

You wanna bet QC versus Harrington? I'll give you 5 QB rating points and Harrington, i.e. QC -5 for me. Minimum 300 pass attempts for both or bet is waived. We can wager a 6 pack, a t-shirt, a lapdan... err 20 bucks.
Sure, why not? I personally think the waiver is your out. I don't drink. I'll make it for a T-shirt if you like.

[ChrisFul]

24 times, is that all, hell let's call the hall of fame.

This is also a pot/kettle situation being that you were misquoting facts left and right just before you stopped posting.

Maybe I should declare this debate over right now, ya think?

I win! ;)

left and right? I believe i mucked up one stat, one of hutchinson's wins that I thought was a loss.

The QC turnover-fumble stat is one ive seen mucked up on here REPEATEDLY.

If you look at the numbers, he was one of the better QBs at NOT losing fumbles.

Ill ignore your childish "Hall of fame" comment.

The fact is 4 turnovers, especially 4 fumbles, is a lot. It makes the difference between "fumble prone" and not.

Fact is, its posters like you that don't bring a lot of ammo to the arguments, you just sit here and harp "apologist!" all day long.

I was on this board LONG before you started posting and I am one of the few regulars left here after all you came and swooped down like seagulls and crapped on everything. I came back hoping to see calmness prevail and not a bunch of retardedness, maybe some of us can come back and reclaim the community we once shared here.

No such luck.

[jterrell]

Sure, why not?
Alright then just pick the wager. :)

[Hostile]

Alright then just pick the wager. :)
I edited the acceptance post to reflect the wager.

[Hostile]

I forgot to add 1 element to my bet with MikeD17. If I lose I have to have a nice picture of Q in my sig line for 2 weeks.

If I win I get to assign him an avatar for 2 weeks.

[jimmy40]

267 1 TD 1 INT VIKINGS AWAY W
252 2 0 BROWNS HOME W
189 0 1 REDSKIN AWAY W
284 3 0 GIANTS HOME W
242 2 0 STEELER HOME W
171 1 2 PACKERS AWAY L
313 3 0 LIONS HOME W
176 1 1 BENGALS AWAY W
202 1 1 EAGLES HOME W
159 0 3 RAVENS AWAY L
277 2 0 BEARS HOME W
303 2 2 HAWKS AWAY L
291 2 1 SAINTS HOME W
150 1 2 EAGLES AWAY L
244 2 0 SKINS HOME W
257 2 1 GIANTS AWAY W

YARDS TDS INTS
3,777 25 15

In doing these numbers I noticed I felt alot more strongly about Home Games then I did road games espically those games played on grass . There's a big difference i think in what his home game stats will be against his away game numbers . we shall see but i feel these numbers are more then realistic.
So you figure Vinny gets hurt the first game?

[jimmy40]

In the immortal words of Aldo Nova....

"Life is just a fantasy
Can you live this fantasy life?"Damn, did that ever bring back memories. I saw them with AXE and Cheap Trick in Houston back in the day.

[Q_the_man]

When I did the numbers i factored in an improved offensive line and 1,100 yard rusher in Julius Jones


I really feel these numbers are not out of reach at all for Carter this season , its a projection of course theres many variables to consider but this is my best educated guess of what I feel can occur .
I sur hope Jones runs for more than 120 yards than THam, that's just 8 yards a game more....

Hint if Tham ran for 55yards Jones would run for 63...more like 1300 to 1500 yards

[blindzebra]

left and right? I believe i mucked up one stat, one of hutchinson's wins that I thought was a loss.

The QC turnover-fumble stat is one ive seen mucked up on here REPEATEDLY.

If you look at the numbers, he was one of the better QBs at NOT losing fumbles.

Ill ignore your childish "Hall of fame" comment.

The fact is 4 turnovers, especially 4 fumbles, is a lot. It makes the difference between "fumble prone" and not.

Fact is, its posters like you that don't bring a lot of ammo to the arguments, you just sit here and harp "apologist!" all day long.

I was on this board LONG before you started posting and I am one of the few regulars left here after all you came and swooped down like seagulls and crapped on everything. I came back hoping to see calmness prevail and not a bunch of retardedness, maybe some of us can come back and reclaim the community we once shared here.

No such luck.

Actually I read the old forum for well over a year, I just did not post because of elitist comments like the one you just made. I always bring facts, in fact I killed you with facts during our little debate, last time.

So get off that high-horse and either join us commoners, or go back into hibernation, I for one don't care either way.

[Rack Bauer]

Carters projected stats game by game , can he do this?


Anything's possible. He can actually do better then that, or worse then that. Hell, he may not even be our opening game starter. I think he has the edge, but Hutch supposedly had the edge last year as well (although I never believed that for a second).

[Hostile]

Damn, did that ever bring back memories. I saw them with AXE and Cheap Trick in Houston back in the day.
Man that is cool. I still remember wearing out Cheap Trick's "Live at Budokan."

http://www.vh1.com/shared/media/images/amg_covers/75/drf100/f173/f173436vw40.jpg

I wore that sucker out. I need to go get it on CD.

[junk]

I have criticized Carter, but if he puts up 25/15 TD/INT ratio, I would be in favor of keeping him as the starter. I have my doubts, but if he does, then great.

[Reef Engineer]

When I did the numbers i factored in an improved offensive line and 1,100 yard rusher in Julius Jones


I really feel these numbers are not out of reach at all for Carter this season , its a projection of course theres many variables to consider but this is my best educated guess of what I feel can occur .

It's not a projection, it's a prediction. The former is based on current numbers that are extrapolated into the future to give the "projected" totals. The latter is going by gut feel alone ... or the psychic hotline.

I don't think that the numbers are unrealistic ... I just don't think they're based on anything at this point.

Like I said before, I'll wait and see how we look after TC before I make any predictions. Heck, QC may not even be the one lining up under center! :eek:

[Reef Engineer]

Supposedly there was a small earthquake the mornign after we left and it made the fish lethargic. The dock workers claim we did better than other charters.

Sea was a bit rough. I was laughing at how many people were yacking even though they had patches and took stuff for motion sickness.

I took nothing and was enjoying the 10 foot swells. That was fun as hell.

Yeah, there was a 5.2 EQ but that occurred on June 15 (3:28 pm if you want to be exact :D ) so doubt that did anything while you were there. No others that I'm aware of ... and we keep track of them! Ha ha.

I know what you mean about the hurling - I "never" get seasick and have had two consecutive bad instances while going out diving ... but that's because deep dives (over 100') make me nauseous (evidently I'm an air swallower - guess the rumors were correct, I swallow - ha ha). I didn't feel too bad since 2/3 of the boat was over the rail at the time - ha ha. Worst feeling in the world - thank God it's only happened on two occassions - 2 out of a thousand ain't bad, eh? (OK, the thousand might be high - ha ha) :D

[EveryoneElse]

267 1 TD 1 INT VIKINGS AWAY W
252 2 0 BROWNS HOME W
189 0 1 REDSKIN AWAY W
284 3 0 GIANTS HOME W
242 2 0 STEELER HOME W
171 1 2 PACKERS AWAY L
313 3 0 LIONS HOME W
176 1 1 BENGALS AWAY W
202 1 1 EAGLES HOME W
159 0 3 RAVENS AWAY L
277 2 0 BEARS HOME W
303 2 2 HAWKS AWAY L
291 2 1 SAINTS HOME W
150 1 2 EAGLES AWAY L
244 2 0 SKINS HOME W
257 2 1 GIANTS AWAY W

YARDS TDS INTS
3,777 25 15

In doing these numbers I noticed I felt alot more strongly about Home Games then I did road games espically those games played on grass . There's a big difference i think in what his home game stats will be against his away game numbers . we shall see but i feel these numbers are more then realistic.

I highly doubt it.....I have ZERO faith in his ability and I hate the feeling I get when I watch him drop back and pass. It's like I'm hoping more for him NOT to throw a pick than I am hoping that he completes the pass.

Just because I doubt him doesn't mean he can't do it.....I mean....I COULD step of the curb and get hit by a bus tomorrow, but I just doubt thats gunna happen.

He COULD, but I doubt it.

[Hostile]

Yeah, there was a 5.2 EQ but that occurred on June 15 (3:28 pm if you want to be exact :D ) so doubt that did anything while you were there. No others that I'm aware of ... and we keep track of them! Ha ha.

I know what you mean about the hurling - I "never" get seasick and have had two consecutive bad instances while going out diving ... but that's because deep dives (over 100') make me nauseous (evidently I'm an air swallower - guess the rumors were correct, I swallow - ha ha). I didn't feel too bad since 2/3 of the boat was over the rail at the time - ha ha. Worst feeling in the world - thank God it's only happened on two occassions - 2 out of a thousand ain't bad, eh? (OK, the thousand might be high - ha ha) :D
Interesting. They said it was a small quake, under 3, and that it happened on the 18th. No matter what else the story is, the fish were not biting.

I would love to learn scuba.

I have this facination with whales. They said they run inot pods all the time on their fishing trips but I didn't see any whales. I could have struck out swinging on the fishing and if I had seen a whale it would have made my trip 10 times better.

[Reef Engineer]

Hos,

Yeah, we get grey whales in these parts all the time - definitely an awesome sight. I have to admit that it scared the crap out of me the first time I ran into them in the open but once you realize that they have no interest in harming you whatsoever, you can sit back and enjoy the show. (Note: at 80' down, you have your doubts when you see one coming at you!)

You need to come back during their breeding season - it's hard to miss them - they're everywhere!

We get dolphin pods that come out as well - they're a lot more inquisitive and will interact with you more - they come right up and bump you (and it hurts!) - ha ha.

But enough hijacking this thread for our use! Sorry!

[Hostile]

Hos,

Yeah, we get grey whales in these parts all the time - definitely an awesome sight. I have to admit that it scared the crap out of me the first time I ran into them in the open but once you realize that they have no interest in harming you whatsoever, you can sit back and enjoy the show. (Note: at 80' down, you have your doubts when you see one coming at you!)

You need to come back during their breeding season - it's hard to miss them - they're everywhere!

We get dolphin pods that come out as well - they're a lot more inquisitive and will interact with you more - they come right up and bump you (and it hurts!) - ha ha.

But enough hijacking this thread for our use! Sorry!
LOL

Hey it was an interesting subject at least.

I was hoping that dolphins or porpoises would shadow the boat. Someone claimed he saw a porpoise, but I didn't.

Please let me know when the breeding season is. I would like to make another junket and see the whales.

[iceberg]

left and right? I believe i mucked up one stat, one of hutchinson's wins that I thought was a loss.

The QC turnover-fumble stat is one ive seen mucked up on here REPEATEDLY.

If you look at the numbers, he was one of the better QBs at NOT losing fumbles.

Ill ignore your childish "Hall of fame" comment.

The fact is 4 turnovers, especially 4 fumbles, is a lot. It makes the difference between "fumble prone" and not.

Fact is, its posters like you that don't bring a lot of ammo to the arguments, you just sit here and harp "apologist!" all day long.

I was on this board LONG before you started posting and I am one of the few regulars left here after all you came and swooped down like seagulls and crapped on everything. I came back hoping to see calmness prevail and not a bunch of retardedness, maybe some of us can come back and reclaim the community we once shared here.

No such luck.

wow - running low on melodrama? and a 4 fumble difference doesn't inherantly make you fumble prone. what if it's 20 and 24? i'd say both are fumble prone. so what is the magic number to officially dub someone "fumble-prone" whatever carters average is +4? cool math, dude.

20 fumbles in 3 years. 31 games, 20 fumbles. is that a lot?

who the hell cares. there's a reason we keep bringing in qb after qb and that's the most addressed position this off-season. if that alone doesn't tell you carter/hutch debates are about as useful as on a nun, i don't know what is.

carter may well fall to 2 or even 3 this year. there's a reason you aquire a henson, and then a testeverde.

you don't have your answer at quarterback yet.

pretty simple when you put the emotions down.

back to your regularly scheduled drama-fest already in action.

[Reef Engineer]

Please let me know when the breeding season is. I would like to make another junket and see the whales.

They start heading through here around December but you'll have to wait until roughly late January/early February to really see them in numbers. They make their trip down to Mexico - have some tequila - and come back with the "little" calves - good times.

In October, you can go snorkeling in water that's only about 10' deep and see, literally, hundreds of leopard sharks, shovelnosed sharks, and rays come close to shore for breeding purposes. Most of the people swimming in the water have no idea that only thirty feet away are hundreds of these "dangerous" animals - awesome site. They don't typically go up to the surface so you'll never see them from up top - but stick your face in the water with a snorkel and mask, all new world. I've been taking my son (9) and daughter (7) for about 3 yrs to see them during the breeding season. My daughter is WAY more fearless than my son - he says "hell, no!" as he swims away whereas she tries to dive down to touch them.

I've gone shark diving in the Bahamas where the guide puts us all in a big circle surrounding him and he'll feed the local sharks - some about 7'-8' long - as we watch. It looked like there was hundreds of them around us even though it was probably more like a dozen or so ... kept hearing that JAWS theme song in the background - ha ha. :D

[jterrell]

I edited the acceptance post to reflect the wager.
Cool deal. I wear an XL preferably not pink:)

[jterrell]

I have criticized Carter, but if he puts up 25/15 TD/INT ratio, I would be in favor of keeping him as the starter. I have my doubts, but if he does, then great.
Thank You Junk.
You stated your doubts without insulting Carter or the poster.

I dont see QC going 25 and 15 myself but if he does then I would agree that he will return as the starter the following season.

[jterrell]

wow - running low on melodrama? and a 4 fumble difference doesn't inherantly make you fumble prone. what if it's 20 and 24? i'd say both are fumble prone. so what is the magic number to officially dub someone "fumble-prone" whatever carters average is +4? cool math, dude.

20 fumbles in 3 years. 31 games, 20 fumbles. is that a lot?

who the hell cares. there's a reason we keep bringing in qb after qb and that's the most addressed position this off-season. if that alone doesn't tell you carter/hutch debates are about as useful as on a nun, i don't know what is.

carter may well fall to 2 or even 3 this year. there's a reason you aquire a henson, and then a testeverde.

you don't have your answer at quarterback yet.

pretty simple when you put the emotions down.

back to your regularly scheduled drama-fest already in action.

Perhaps you have a point with the 4 fumbles. As Chris mentionned though it isnt merely 4 when you factor in fumbles lost.

However where you fall off the boat and many seem to is the QB additions.

BP did NOT go out and sign a big time starting QB. He traded a future 3rd(equivalent to a 4th round pick) and signed a guy to a deal for 1.1 million. Not exactly all out committing to improving anything more than depth at the position.

QC falling to 3? He has a better chance of being lost on an Iceberg.

[Hostile]

Cool deal. I wear an XL preferably not pink:)
I wouldn't buy a T-shirt that would insult you in order to pay a bet.

I figure the winner ought to be able to choose a T-shirt from the dc.com online store.

I wear XXL by the way.

[TwoDeep3]

Ten games of 240 yards or more with two over 300, one over 290 and one more over 280, and one of 277?

That is a little difficult to believe from past experiences with Quincy.

[NorthDalal]

It's obvious that fantasy football season is upon us. If QC has more TDs than INTS I'll be thrilled but a 2-1 TD/INT ration is required for a QB to be better than a "bus driver".Since he's never reached 60% completion before, that part seems like pure fantasy to me.

It more likely that Vinnie will get some starts this year and considerably more likely that he'll avg. 60% with 2-1 TD/INT. Especially because that's what he's averaged for his last 6 years with the Jets.

[jdnalls]

267 1 TD 1 INT VIKINGS AWAY W
252 2 0 BROWNS HOME W
189 0 1 REDSKIN AWAY W
284 3 0 GIANTS HOME W
242 2 0 STEELER HOME W
171 1 2 PACKERS AWAY L
313 3 0 LIONS HOME W
176 1 1 BENGALS AWAY W
202 1 1 EAGLES HOME W
159 0 3 RAVENS AWAY L
277 2 0 BEARS HOME W
303 2 2 HAWKS AWAY L
291 2 1 SAINTS HOME W
150 1 2 EAGLES AWAY L
244 2 0 SKINS HOME W
257 2 1 GIANTS AWAY W

YARDS TDS INTS
3,777 25 15

In doing these numbers I noticed I felt alot more strongly about Home Games then I did road games espically those games played on grass . There's a big difference i think in what his home game stats will be against his away game numbers . we shall see but i feel these numbers are more then realistic.
Pass me whatever it is you're smoking.

[Smith22]

I always bring facts, in fact I killed you with facts during our little debate, last time.

:rolleyes:
Just like when you told me Carter only gets credit for 2TD's last season, the other 17 that he passed for didn't count because other players actually scored them.

[blindzebra]

:rolleyes:
Just like when you told me Carter only gets credit for 2TD's last season, the other 17 that he passed for didn't count because other players actually scored them.

Now, let's get our facts straight, shell we.

You said, Carter scored 19 TDs ALL BY HIMSELF, I said Carter scored 2 by HIMSELF, the other 17 were scored by others.

I never said they did not count, you overstated the TDs as being Carter's alone, all I did was correct that overstatement. ;)

[Smith22]

Now, let's get our facts straight, shell we.

You said, Carter scored 19 TDs ALL BY HIMSELF, I said Carter scored 2 by HIMSELF, the other 17 were scored by others.

I never said they did not count, you overstated the TDs as being Carter's alone, all I did was correct that overstatement. ;)
I never said he scored them all by himself, I said he had 19 total TD's last year, which he did.;)

Either way, it's all good.

[Doomsday101]

28 times?

God, why do people think Carter fumbles all the time. This is the 4th or 5th time i've either noticed someone not checking the facts or outright lying about Carter's turnovers.

Carter threw 21 Ints and fumbled 10 times during the regular season. Only 3 of those fumbles were lost, and of the 10, Carter recovered 4 of them himself. That's 24 turnovers. If you are gonna argue, at least argue with the right numbers.

Chrisful, you wrong as can be go check out the numbers yourself. Carter is not a good QB but your rosed color glasses are blinding you. Think with your head and not your heart and you may see what so many others see.

[CapnComeback]

Looking at those numbers by game....and they aren't all that impressive.

However, the end result is kinda surprising.

If he gets 25 TD's to 15 INT's this year, that would be a pretty good step up, however, there are still those that would point out his INT numbers and blame those numbers for the losses....even though there were only 4 of them in your projection.

If he puts up those numbers everyone here will be happy. All quarterbacks throw interceptions: from Joe Montana on down to Ryan Leaf. I think we can all live with 15 interceptions if you have 25 touchdowns. What we can't live with is 21 interceptions when you only have 17 touchdowns and a completion percentage south of %60.

The question is whether Carter can do this or not. I'm of the opinion that we should wait and see. If he beats out Testaverde in camp that will be a great sign, though.

[Double Trouble]

The only way to get a real idea of what you think his numbers will be is if you go game by game , try it and see what you come up with , I was sort of surprised with the amount of yardage I believe he'll gain this year and the difference i came up with in regard to his home and away numbers.
No, the only reasonable estimate you can get for his stats is to review his past. It's all a guess, but you're seeing 3700 yds and 25 tds with your heart.

How many times are you going to post this (almost) exact same thing?

[ChrisFul]

Actually I read the old forum for well over a year, I just did not post because of elitist comments like the one you just made. I always bring facts, in fact I killed you with facts during our little debate, last time.

So get off that high-horse and either join us commoners, or go back into hibernation, I for one don't care either way.

Facts? Like what?

You didn't "kill" me with anything other than the fact I goofed and remembered a narrow win as a loss.

As far as i remember, your "facts" consisted of "Chad had big games" and "Chad won 2 of his starts" or something to that effect. Whoopdee. Nevermind the fact his QB rating was pitiful, worse than carter (the worst QB ever in the history of the world). Nevermind the fact that we lost 7 of his starts, nevermind the fact he dropped the ball all over the ground.

You thought there were elitists on the old board? Well, its much better than the retardation of this current one.

[ChrisFul]

Chrisful, you wrong as can be go check out the numbers yourself. Carter is not a good QB but your rosed color glasses are blinding you. Think with your head and not your heart and you may see what so many others see.

Doomsday, don't be an idiot. Can you not count? Im guessing you can't.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235201

2003 season.

21 INTs

10 Fumbles, 3 lost.

How many turnovers is that?

That's right, 24. Thanks for playing.

Owned.

I think with both my head and my heart. Anyone that tells you otherwise is a liar.

[ChrisFul]

wow - running low on melodrama? and a 4 fumble difference doesn't inherantly make you fumble prone. what if it's 20 and 24? i'd say both are fumble prone. so what is the magic number to officially dub someone "fumble-prone" whatever carters average is +4? cool math, dude.
.


If your QB loses 8 fumbles, i'd say he has a problem fumbling. Losing 4, i'd say thats about average (after looking at the fumbles - fumbles lost stats of NFL starting QBs in 2003) It's very simple, really.

Man, you correct someone's numbers with something that MIGHT reflect positively on QC, and you get jumped. Nice board we got here.

[Doomsday101]

Doomsday, don't be an idiot. Can you not count? Im guessing you can't.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235201

2003 season.

21 INTs

10 Fumbles, 3 lost.

How many turnovers is that?

That's right, 24. Thanks for playing.

Owned.

I think with both my head and my heart. Anyone that tells you otherwise is a liar.

Chris your wrong and now that you are calling people name let me tell you something Bonehead, you are so full of it, in your post above you talk about how poor Hutch rookie season was well idiot it was better than Carters 63.0 rating and to top it off Chad had not played in 4 years, Carter on the other hand came out of college to the pros and still looks like a hack QB. So go crawl back into your little hole instead of bemoaning others at this sight. As for the stats idiot he had more than the 3 fumbles but your too stupid or blind to see it.

[ChrisFul]

Chris your wrong and now that you are calling people name let me tell you something Bonehead, you are so full of it, in your post above you talk about how poor Hutch rookie season was well idiot it was better than Carters 63.0 rating and to top it off Chad had not played in 4 years, Carter on the other hand came out of college to the pros and still looks like a hack QB. So go crawl back into your little hole instead of bemoaning others at this sight. As for the stats idiot he had more than the 3 fumbles but your too stupid or blind to see it.

Finally we see Doomsday101's true colors.

I see you insist on being a buffoon. And an incorrect one at that.

Once again.

From NFL.com

FUMBLES
Games Fumbles Lost
2003 Dallas Cowboys 16 10 3


No one disputes the INTs. 21. He threw 21 Ints.

See that part where it says "FUMBLES"? Now, look below it. It says "10". And under the "Lost" column? It says THREE.

Three fumbles lost + 21 INTs = 24 TURNOVERS.


So how am i wrong again?

Where's your numbers?

Somehow I think that this little discussion will come screeching to a halt.

"As for the stats idiot he had more than the 3 fumbles but your too stupid or blind to see it"

You are right, he had more than 3 fumbles. He had 10. He LOST 3. Fumbles that are picked up by you or your teammates, see, aren't counted as turnovers. That's what we call a FUMBLE RECOVERY.

You need SM_Cowboys' football 101 class, apparently.

[MichaelWinicki]

What?

Do my eyes deceive me?

It this a thread that has somehow, inexplicably turned into a "Q" debate?

It's so rare we get one of these... I would love to comment but I feel that would ruin the freshness of the moment.

[MichaelWinicki]

Chris & Doom, why don't you guys get Q-Card and TD3 and have a good old-fashioned tag-team event.

Remember though no tagging out unless your partner has a firm grip of the tag rope!

[ChrisFul]

This isnt even a debate. there was an erroneous stat, and I corrected it. Its amazing that some will even argue over something so black-and-white, something so concrete as the number of turnovers. "You like Quincy, you are blind, read the stats with your head" when the whole time they were the ones that were just flat out wrong.

Is it really that hard to count to 24?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Gentlemen...WATCH the name calling please!

[ABQCOWBOY]

Technically, we all pretty much joined at the same time. However, I will say that Dooms has been posting for a long..... long....... time on various boards.

I think we should get back to the rookie year comparisons my self. lol

Just kidding fellas.

[blindzebra]

Facts? Like what?

You didn't "kill" me with anything other than the fact I goofed and remembered a narrow win as a loss.

As far as i remember, your "facts" consisted of "Chad had big games" and "Chad won 2 of his starts" or something to that effect. Whoopdee. Nevermind the fact his QB rating was pitiful, worse than carter (the worst QB ever in the history of the world). Nevermind the fact that we lost 7 of his starts, nevermind the fact he dropped the ball all over the ground.

You thought there were elitists on the old board? Well, its much better than the retardation of this current one.

Let me refresh your memory.

A thread was started after Hutch had a good game in NFLE asking if that he was having a good enough season to get a shot. Nobody was saying Hutch is great, Hutch will be great, but along came the Carter supporters to rip on Hutchinson.

At this point, someone mentions Carter and in you swoop with, "This thread is about Hutchinson, so why are you mentioning our starting QB." You had that ridiculous I won't use Quincy's name boycott going.

Sound familiar?

You then say," Hutchinson has never shown he can play in the NFL."

I gave you 3 games in 2002, including a good game vs JAX and back to back wins, to show he can play in the NFL. That would be stats from NFL games to refute your statement. That would be debate-speak for you losing that point.

You reply with, "He did not win that JAX game." Again refuted with fact.

You then go on attack about my using play as meaning Hutch is great. I reply with a direct quote, never saying anything other then he showed he can put up numbers considered good by NFL standards. Point refuted by quote.

The Rob Johnson comparison comes up about Hutchinson. I counter with an equally good comparison between Carter and Kordell Stewart. To which you scream foul, because I brought up Carter and made you break your boycott.

You then post a childish, I win post that said, " We debate with facts here, come back when you learn how to debate."

From my count I refuted your points 3 times with facts, twice with NFL game stats and once with a word for word quote. I then forced a draw on the Johnson/ Stewart comparison.

I don't know what scoring you use to debate, 3-0-1 seems pretty onesided to me.

[MikeD17]

Id like to see what sort of numbers some of you guys would come up with if you went game by game .

Its actually somewhat interesting to do. .Really think and be objective and see what you come up with game by game

[iceberg]

If your QB loses 8 fumbles, i'd say he has a problem fumbling. Losing 4, i'd say thats about average (after looking at the fumbles - fumbles lost stats of NFL starting QBs in 2003) It's very simple, really.

Man, you correct someone's numbers with something that MIGHT reflect positively on QC, and you get jumped. Nice board we got here.

you naturally paranoid? i just asked what the magic breakpoint for fumbles is to declare someone fumble prone or not. also, if you're going to use numbers to state just about anything, trying to bias it in any direction is already showing *your* bias. i don't really care as neither will be here much longer and i'm already mad at myself for the time spent wasted in hutch/qc debates when i could have been out killing brain cells in some clever fashion.

also, fumbles per year is a very strange way to get to this, so you need to do a fumbles/fumbles lost per game started, otherwise what does a "year" mean?

see what i mean? you're already slanting things your way and are mad no one's either falling for it or cares about these debates anymore.

build a bridge, get over it. this forum is arguabley the best on the net and if you have that much of a problem with it, find you some options.

[ChrisFul]

Let me refresh your memory.

A thread was started after Hutch had a good game in NFLE asking if that he was having a good enough season to get a shot. Nobody was saying Hutch is great, Hutch will be great, but along came the Carter supporters to rip on Hutchinson.

At this point, someone mentions Carter and in you swoop with, "This thread is about Hutchinson, so why are you mentioning our starting QB." You had that ridiculous I won't use Quincy's name boycott going.

Sound familiar?

You then say," Hutchinson has never shown he can play in the NFL."

I gave you 3 games in 2002, including a good game vs JAX and back to back wins, to show he can play in the NFL. That would be stats from NFL games to refute your statement. That would be debate-speak for you losing that point.

You reply with, "He did not win that JAX game." Again refuted with fact.

You then go on attack about my using play as meaning Hutch is great. I reply with a direct quote, never saying anything other then he showed he can put up numbers considered good by NFL standards. Point refuted by quote.

The Rob Johnson comparison comes up about Hutchinson. I counter with an equally good comparison between Carter and Kordell Stewart. To which you scream foul, because I brought up Carter and made you break your boycott.

You then post a childish, I win post that said, " We debate with facts here, come back when you learn how to debate."

From my count I refuted your points 3 times with facts, twice with NFL game stats and once with a word for word quote. I then forced a draw on the Johnson/ Stewart comparison.

I don't know what scoring you use to debate, 3-0-1 seems pretty onesided to me.

Oh please. You put up three games as proof of "good" numbers, and I point out that only ONE of those efforts would possibly be considered "good", then you get all defensive. The fact of the matter was that you never refuted anything I said except for my Jacksonville gaffe. Where is that thread now, I want to go back and read it so I can see what I said and you said, not just YOUR take of how the conversation went.

[ChrisFul]

you naturally paranoid? i just asked what the magic breakpoint for fumbles is to declare someone fumble prone or not. also, if you're going to use numbers to state just about anything, trying to bias it in any direction is already showing *your* bias. i don't really care as neither will be here much longer and i'm already mad at myself for the time spent wasted in hutch/qc debates when i could have been out killing brain cells in some clever fashion.

also, fumbles per year is a very strange way to get to this, so you need to do a fumbles/fumbles lost per game started, otherwise what does a "year" mean?

see what i mean? you're already slanting things your way and are mad no one's either falling for it or cares about these debates anymore.

build a bridge, get over it. this forum is arguabley the best on the net and if you have that much of a problem with it, find you some options.

I say that 4 fumbles LOST is a good many to get wrong, and you rip me with some odd "What does fumble prone mean" criticism. It CAN be the difference between normal fumbling and fumbling problems. If your QB has 4 more fumbles LOST, then the chances are good that he's fumbled a good bit more than just the ones he's lost, by the law of averages. Is that hard for you to understand? Apparently it is.

Im not biasing anything. If you didnt care about any of this, why did you jump my case in the first place? Hm? I bet I know.

The fact of the matter is he was WRONG about the fumbles. Get over it.

[ABQCOWBOY]

OK, can we please move this thread to the appropriate forum? Electric Company forum I think it is.

[ChrisFul]

Hm, blindzebra, your version of the events don't sound anything like what went on.


http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1776&page=8&pp=15&highlight=hutchinson+europe



Theres the thread and the appropriate thread page.

You said those stats in the 3 games were good. I said they were not, and I think most would agree that they weren't.

I messed up on the jax game outcome, i admitted that immediately.

The Rob Johnson/Kordell Stewart thing is several pages down.

This was your original point.
----------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by blindzebra
Hutchinson had 3 good games in 2002 in the NFL, notice no little e, and two of those were in back to back wins.

What was that point again
-----------------------------------------------

Here is my point.
----------------------------------------------------
Which games were those?

The 300 yard game which we lost and he turned the ball over 3 times?

The game where he threw for 208 yards while leading us to a 9-7 defeat at the hands of the Lions?

The only game i can see where he played anything CLOSE to "well" was against the skins in week 13 of 2002, where he threw for 2 TDs and no ints. I dont recall any fumbles, though he WAS under 50% completion for that game.

That was the point.

You failed to make one.

Look no further than his final statline. Fairly poor, i might add. And now he's doing so-so in NFL Europe. What makes you think he's going to be successful in the NFL anytime soon?
----------------------------------------------

I messed up on the Jax win, but my point is still valid. It was NOT a good game. Hutch threw for 300+ but still managed to find a way to turn the ball over 3 times.

I found the Rob Johnson/Kordell thing. That you count that as a victory point for yourself is laughable. Hutch/Johnson comparison made perfect sense. However, your introduction of Kordell to slam QC was merely to redirect the argument away from Hutch. Its a classic tactic when you are losing a discussion. Turn the argument around on the other guy. Up until that point, we were discussing HUTCH. How is Carter comparing to Kordell make Hutch any better of a player? It doesn't. It merely serves to put the other party on the defensive about something not being discussed in the first place.

Sounds to me like you tried to work a little revisionist history here, too bad we can dig up old posts.

So basically, this is what happened.

I say Hutch is disappointing in europe, how can he play in the NFL if he's getting his can handed to him in EUROPE.

You say, "He has three good games in 2002 including back to back wins that says he can"

I say those games ARENT good efforts save for maybe one (completion %, turnovers, etc.)

You say "AHA! We won that Jax game! You lose!"

I say 'yeah, sorry, that still doesnt change the point that Hutch was awful and our offense was awful with him at the helm"

I say Hutch is at this point a rob johnson, then you say "oh yeah? well quincy is kordell".

At no point did you refute anything I said. In fact, I used your "Good Hutch Game" stats against your own point!

Other than the jacksonville thing, that whole thread went quite poorly for you.

If only I could turn back the clock and get our old forum back. I'd take a thousand Aikman_Lives over the likes that overrun this place now.

[iceberg]

I say that 4 fumbles LOST is a good many to get wrong, and you rip me with some odd "What does fumble prone mean" criticism. It CAN be the difference between normal fumbling and fumbling problems. If your QB has 4 more fumbles LOST, then the chances are good that he's fumbled a good bit more than just the ones he's lost, by the law of averages. Is that hard for you to understand? Apparently it is.

Im not biasing anything. If you didnt care about any of this, why did you jump my case in the first place? Hm? I bet I know.

The fact of the matter is he was WRONG about the fumbles. Get over it.

he may have been wrong about a given stat, lord knows i've typo'd enough. "lost" fumbles are meaningless to me. "fumbles" is the issue. hutch seems to toss it up sometimes and is definately the more prone to that right now.

anytime a player puts the ball on the turf it's bad. just because someone on your team got it back doesn't make it any less of a fumble.

i guess you don't know then - and fyi, when i jump someones case, it's very obvious. follow up fyi - this ain't it.

slam a beer and chill out dude. this is too much bad vibes over players really not worth it and crap like this is what can bring a board down.

people not knowing when to walk away from arguments that have no meaning in life.

so if there's a problem here, just take a minute to consider it could be you.

then come back and yell at me some more. that'll fix it.

[junk]

If only I could turn back the clock and get our old forum back. I'd take a thousand Aikman_Lives over the likes that overrun this place now.

I don't think anyone is forcing you to be here.

[MikeD17]

Why are we talking about Hutchinson , He stinks and will be cut soon . Parcells compared him to a single A player and he looked awful in the no Talent Europe league he got outplayed by the Rhein Fire's back up haha


Nice Call Hutchers, well you can jump on the henson bandwagon ...he might turn out

[blindzebra]

Hm, blindzebra, your version of the events don't sound anything like what went on.


http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1776&page=8&pp=15&highlight=hutchinson+europe



Theres the thread and the appropriate thread page.

You said those stats in the 3 games were good. I said they were not, and I think most would agree that they weren't.

I messed up on the jax game outcome, i admitted that immediately.

The Rob Johnson/Kordell Stewart thing is several pages down.

This was your original point.
----------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by blindzebra
Hutchinson had 3 good games in 2002 in the NFL, notice no little e, and two of those were in back to back wins.

What was that point again
-----------------------------------------------

Here is my point.
----------------------------------------------------
Which games were those?

The 300 yard game which we lost and he turned the ball over 3 times?

The game where he threw for 208 yards while leading us to a 9-7 defeat at the hands of the Lions?

The only game i can see where he played anything CLOSE to "well" was against the skins in week 13 of 2002, where he threw for 2 TDs and no ints. I dont recall any fumbles, though he WAS under 50% completion for that game.

That was the point.

You failed to make one.

Look no further than his final statline. Fairly poor, i might add. And now he's doing so-so in NFL Europe. What makes you think he's going to be successful in the NFL anytime soon?
----------------------------------------------

I messed up on the Jax win, but my point is still valid. It was NOT a good game. Hutch threw for 300+ but still managed to find a way to turn the ball over 3 times.

I found the Rob Johnson/Kordell thing. That you count that as a victory point for yourself is laughable. Hutch/Johnson comparison made perfect sense. However, your introduction of Kordell to slam QC was merely to redirect the argument away from Hutch. Its a classic tactic when you are losing a discussion. Turn the argument around on the other guy. Up until that point, we were discussing HUTCH. How is Carter comparing to Kordell make Hutch any better of a player? It doesn't. It merely serves to put the other party on the defensive about something not being discussed in the first place.

Sounds to me like you tried to work a little revisionist history here, too bad we can dig up old posts.

So basically, this is what happened.

I say Hutch is disappointing in europe, how can he play in the NFL if he's getting his can handed to him in EUROPE.

You say, "He has three good games in 2002 including back to back wins that says he can"

I say those games ARENT good efforts save for maybe one (completion %, turnovers, etc.)

You say "AHA! We won that Jax game! You lose!"

I say 'yeah, sorry, that still doesnt change the point that Hutch was awful and our offense was awful with him at the helm"

I say Hutch is at this point a rob johnson, then you say "oh yeah? well quincy is kordell".

At no point did you refute anything I said. In fact, I used your "Good Hutch Game" stats against your own point!

Other than the jacksonville thing, that whole thread went quite poorly for you.

If only I could turn back the clock and get our old forum back. I'd take a thousand Aikman_Lives over the likes that overrun this place now.

Whatever it takes, I guess.

I love it that only YOUR concept of good is valid. It still comes down to you saying NEVER and me giving you games. Even by YOUR concept of good you mentioned the Washington win, as close to well. Well if you throw 2 TDs in an NFL game and your team wins, did you show you can play QB in the NFL? You lose it on THAT alone, never means never, RIGHT?

Is Carter/ Stewart a valid comparison or not? I venture that most people would say it is just as valid as Johnson/Hutchinson.

Don't like it here anymore? So, go away again. Trust me us "likes" did not miss you.

[iceberg]

Why are we talking about Hutchinson , He stinks and will be cut soon . Parcells compared him to a single A player and he looked awful in the no Talent Europe league he got outplayed by the Rhein Fire's back up haha


Nice Call Hutchers, well you can jump on the henson bandwagon ...he might turn out

he also said he disliked carter less. hardly a ringing endorsement, is it?

is it ok if i just sit on the cowboys bandwagon and not get all caught up in this stupid feudin? my still needs to be warmed up for tonight. be back later.

[MikeD17]

Well if he disliked Carter less , then why didnt he bring in a vet qb last year to take over? and then say in regard to that he's not looking to go 8-8 and sticks with Carter and goes 10-6.


I highly doubt Parcells said that , just another hutcher angry he was proved wrong and his little ego is hurt

[junk]

Well if he disliked Carter less , then why didnt he bring in a vet qb last year to take over? and then say in regard to that he's not looking to go 8-8 and sticks with Carter and goes 10-6.


I highly doubt Parcells said that , just another hutcher angry he was proved wrong and his little ego is hurt

I honestly think BP was as surprised with 10 wins as most of us were. I don't think he could have even imagined 10 wins at the beginning of the season.

You know I could see being this die hard Carter fan if he shown flashes of brilliance, but he looked pretty average. Why the outright anger towards anyone who thinks the QB position needs an upgrade?

[Double Trouble]

Well if he disliked Carter less , then why didnt he bring in a vet qb last year to take over? and then say in regard to that he's not looking to go 8-8 and sticks with Carter and goes 10-6.


I highly doubt Parcells said that , just another hutcher angry he was proved wrong and his little ego is hurt
That was Galloway's quote. I doubt seriously he made it up.

[MikeD17]

Junk I believe Carter has shown alot of talent , and last year made some serious strides. Parcells says he got better and so has the entire Dallas Organization.

Im looking forward to a real break out year this season

[junk]

Junk I believe Carter has shown alot of talent , and last year made some serious strides. Parcells says he got better and so has the entire Dallas Organization.

Im looking forward to a real break out year this season

I guess that is where we disagree. I think he was coached up and did real well the first half. Once teams got game tape on him and the simplified offense that was run with him as QB, he was far less successful. I thought his stats looked very similar to last year and his mistakes looked like the same he has always made.

What else are they going to say? Our starting QB sure sucks. :D

Like I said, if he breaks out, great. I guess I am just not expecting it.

[iceberg]

Well if he disliked Carter less , then why didnt he bring in a vet qb last year to take over?

well bless my mothers feminine hygene bag, what the sam hill does this actually say?

if you're using the "why didn't he bring in a vet last year" as a real defense of carters ability, where does it sit now that we traded for a future qb AND brought in a vet?

if you just look at things as pieces and quit getting so homered up into your favorite players, you'd see we're obviously NOT set at qb or we'd have no brought 3 more in after hutch. (romo, henson and vinnie, btw)

[iceberg]

Junk I believe Carter has shown alot of talent , and last year made some serious strides. Parcells says he got better and so has the entire Dallas Organization.

Im looking forward to a real break out year this season

unless he develops a serious case of acne, i'd suggest getting used to dissapointment.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235201/gamelogs

his stats are the postchild for mediocere. and made serious strides? any qb making "serious" strides doesn't get rewarded with a vet and trading for the future qb.

[MikeD17]

Yet whos the Starting Qb for the Dallas Cowboys this year going to be?

anyone whos thinking logically knows it will be Carter

[blindzebra]

Yet whos the Starting Qb for the Dallas Cowboys this year going to be?

anyone whos thinking logically knows it will be Carter

Who's on first! :D

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yet whos the Starting Qb for the Dallas Cowboys this year going to be?

anyone whos thinking logically knows it will be Carter

Maybe it's Carter, maybe not. The field will tell. Having said that, what other team's starting QB would even be questioned in this manner? Carter is going to beat out, apparently, a 41 year old vet who hasn't been a starting QB in this league for who knows how long, an injured NFLE QB, a 2nd year QB that played absolutly zero last year and a rookie that has been away from football for 4 years. Take a good look at that and tell me what you have to be confident about. This conversation is boarder line idiocy (sp?). Lets just face the facts and move on. Eventually this will work itself out and one of these guys will be our QB. None of them, at this moment are very good and nobody is beating down doors to be in our QB situation. Live with it.

[MikeD17]

After this season you'll put Carter in the Top ten Qb's in the League

[ABQCOWBOY]

After this season you'll put Carter in the Top ten Qb's in the League

Tell you what. I got a great freaken idea. How bout we talk about that after the season. That way, all the crap that's being thrown around will actually be proven crap by that time.

[iceberg]

After this season you'll put Carter in the Top ten Qb's in the League

oh hell, dude. i'll go ahead and rate him at #1 in the leage. now can i tell you in what category?

you still didn't answer me - if not bringing in a vet last year was a good sign, why is a years of "stellar growth" warrant bringing in a 41 year old now AND trading for a hopefull franchise qb?

as for who starts? i hope to god he does. why would you NOT want your starting qb starting again when possible? if not then he got beat out in camp and that's fine also - it's how the game works.

even if he starts, he just won't last. again you dismiss the bad (disliked him less, all the qb competition you said he didn't have last year he now has after showing off for a year...) and refuse to just see the totality.

back up and see everything. don't root for carter, root for the cowboys. can we and are we trying to improve in that position based on the moves we've made?

yes.

does this mean instantly carter is out?

no.

does this mean the staff isn't sold on carter?

yes.

does this mean carter may *not* start this year?

sure.

you're a bit early under the circumstances to be doing the "i told you so" dance, dude.

[iceberg]

Yet whos the Starting Qb for the Dallas Cowboys this year going to be?

anyone whos thinking logically knows it will be Carter

they actually take this type of bait in homeroom, dude?

[Hostile]

oh hell, dude. i'll go ahead and rate him at #1 in the leage. now can i tell you in what category?

you still didn't answer me - if not bringing in a vet last year was a good sign, why is a years of "stellar growth" warrant bringing in a 41 year old now AND trading for a hopefull franchise qb?

as for who starts? i hope to god he does. why would you NOT want your starting qb starting again when possible? if not then he got beat out in camp and that's fine also - it's how the game works.

even if he starts, he just won't last. again you dismiss the bad (disliked him less, all the qb competition you said he didn't have last year he now has after showing off for a year...) and refuse to just see the totality.

back up and see everything. don't root for carter, root for the cowboys. can we and are we trying to improve in that position based on the moves we've made?

yes.

does this mean instantly carter is out?

no.

does this mean the staff isn't sold on carter?

yes.

does this mean carter may *not* start this year?

sure.

you're a bit early under the circumstances to be doing the "i told you so" dance, dude.
Great post.

[MikeD17]

Vinny was brought in for insurance. Carter will start the season but if he plays bad Vinny will come in. Vinny was brought in to teach and mentor the younger qb's Carter included.

Henson was brought here to be Plan B future Qb . If Carter doesnt have an excellent year this year and bring this team far in the playoffs more then likely they will go with henson next year. If Carter does play well and brings this team far he will more then likely be the starting qb in 2005

I feel Parcells , Jones, The coaches all feel Carter has a ton of talent but there not completly positive it will work itself out, and so they sign henson in case it doesnt.

But I strongly feel they feel it will work out with Carter .

does this answer the question?

[iceberg]

Vinny was brought in for insurance. Carter will start the season but if he plays bad Vinny will come in. Vinny was brought in to teach and mentor the younger qb's Carter included.

Henson was brought here to be Plan B future Qb . If Carter doesnt have an excellent year this year and bring this team far in the playoffs more then likely they will go with henson next year. If Carter does play well and brings this team far he will more then likely be the starting qb in 2005

I feel Parcells , Jones, The coaches all feel Carter has a ton of talent but there not completly positive it will work itself out, and so they sign henson in case it doesnt.

But I strongly feel they feel it will work out with Carter .

does this answer the question?

no, not at all. shock you?

i'm not after cause/effect/reason/whatever right now.

why is it last year when parcells DIDN'T bring in a vet qb, it meant good things for carter. now when he trades for one qb AND brings in a vet, why is it not BAD for carter?

that's a viscious double standard i'm calling you on. you can either go oops or keep at it. but until you can make this make sense, you don't make sense.

[Hostile]

Vinny was brought in for insurance. Carter will start the season but if he plays bad Vinny will come in. Vinny was brought in to teach and mentor the younger qb's Carter included.

Henson was brought here to be Plan B future Qb . If Carter doesnt have an excellent year this year and bring this team far in the playoffs more then likely they will go with henson next year. If Carter does play well and brings this team far he will more then likely be the starting qb in 2005

I feel Parcells , Jones, The coaches all feel Carter has a ton of talent but there not completly positive it will work itself out, and so they sign henson in case it doesnt.

But I strongly feel they feel it will work out with Carter .

does this answer the question?
Out of curiosity is there a reason why you always write Henson without capitalizing it? I don't really care, just curious.

[MikeD17]

The reason being because he never brought in a guy to take over the Job. Look at all the Qb's Parcells could have gotton over the past few years

Garcia, Plummer, Warner, Collins, Couch, Griese, Brunell he passed on all these guys and stuck with Carter . Because none of these guy would come in and be backups there all looking to be starters.

Vinny doesnt threathen Carters starting Position hes merely there for insurance . I said since day one that dallas would pass on all these guys and would probably sign testerverde and thats exactly what they did.

The difference is Testerverde doesnt stop the growth or maturity of Carter , hes there as a back up plan for this year .

[iceberg]

The reason being because he never brought in a guy to take over the Job. Look at all the Qb's Parcells could have gotton over the past few years

Garcia, Plummer, Warner, Collins, Couch, Griese, Brunell he passed on all these guys and stuck with Carter . Because none of these guy would come in and be backups there all looking to be starters.

Vinny doesnt threathen Carters starting Position hes merely there for insurance . I said since day one that dallas would pass on all these guys and would probably sign testerverde and thats exactly what they did.

The difference is Testerverde doesnt stop the growth or maturity of Carter , hes there as a back up plan for this year .

i don't know about ya'll but my head is turning.

you weren't that specific in the "he didn't!" and now so very specific when he does and you defend each step.

people that usually defend to that level don't tend to see much higher than that.

you left out henson, dude. we still sold on q's mad skills?

don't bother answering. i'm gonna go write a custom filter now.

[MikeD17]

Hostile if you look at my post again I did one time and the another i didnt. I just type fast .

I have nothing bad to say about Henson , hes got a great arm and was a good College Qb with a wealth of talent.

[Hostile]

The reason being because he never brought in a guy to take over the Job. Look at all the Qb's Parcells could have gotton over the past few years

Garcia, Plummer, Warner, Collins, Couch, Griese, Brunell he passed on all these guys and stuck with Carter . Because none of these guy would come in and be backups there all looking to be starters.

Vinny doesnt threathen Carters starting Position hes merely there for insurance . I said since day one that dallas would pass on all these guys and would probably sign testerverde and thats exactly what they did.

The difference is Testerverde doesnt stop the growth or maturity of Carter , hes there as a back up plan for this year .
A couple of evident flaws in your logic. We had no shot at Brunnell because Washington traded for him before he was waived. We weren't going to trade for him.

Couch was not brought in because we already had 5 QBs and we weren't going to trade for yet another.

Garcia had back issues, but was a candidate. On that you are right.

We could have chosen Warner or Testaverde we chose Testaverde. I suspect if we had not chosen him we might have made a push for Warner or Couch.

Parcells had no interest in Griese or Plummer last year because he wanted Delhomme just not at the price he was at.

It should be noted that last year he stuck with Carter and with Hutchinson because both were on the team. Carter won the job fair and square.

It doesn't change the fact that after a full 16 game season from him we had 3 QBs and acquired 2 more. Screams loud and clear to me that top to bottom at QB we needed to get better.

[MikeD17]

Well when the media asked Parcells why he didnt go after guys like Plummer , or Griese two guys many fans were screaming for last year , he said Im not interested in going 8-8 . And he went 10-6 with Carter. He thinks Carter gives him a better Chance then those guys.


And this year he he had Chances to Get Collins , Warner, Garcia ,Couch and he passed on them all ....and why you ask because they all wanted starting qb money and to be starting qb's. But Parcells has made up his mind hes going with Carter this year and that is why Testerverde was brought in , hes cheap and will be a nice backup plan , you know that other driver in case the first one is not working out as planned.

[iceberg]

Well when the media asked Parcells why he didnt go after guys like Plummer , or Griese two guys many fans were screaming for last year , he said Im not interested in going 8-8 . And he went 10-6 with Carter. He thinks Carter gives him a better Chance then those guys.


And this year he he had Chances to Get Collins , Warner, Garcia ,Couch and he passed on them all ....and why you ask because they all wanted starting qb money and to be starting qb's. But Parcells has made up his mind hes going with Carter this year and that is why Testerverde was brought in , hes cheap and will be a nice backup plan , you know that other driver in case the first one is not working out as planned.

you left off henson again dude. i know he roaches your argument, but we got him for a reason you could see if the carter-boner would subside.

[MikeD17]

ice berg please refrains from your childish comments .


I told you why we signed Henson in a previous post.


If Carter doesnt have an excellcent season and bring this team far in the playoffs , Henson more then likely will be the starting qb next season . If Carter does he will more then likely be the starter next season.

Henson is the Plan B future Qb Plan in case Carter doesnt work out. This is the make or breaki year for Quincy Carter and his future with the Dallas Cowboys

''I believe Quincy will do it , i believe with all my heart he can , hes trying to do it ''

Bill Parcells Last year Pc

[junk]

Well when the media asked Parcells why he didnt go after guys like Plummer , or Griese two guys many fans were screaming for last year , he said Im not interested in going 8-8 . And he went 10-6 with Carter. He thinks Carter gives him a better Chance then those guys.


And this year he he had Chances to Get Collins , Warner, Garcia ,Couch and he passed on them all ....and why you ask because they all wanted starting qb money and to be starting qb's. But Parcells has made up his mind hes going with Carter this year and that is why Testerverde was brought in , hes cheap and will be a nice backup plan , you know that other driver in case the first one is not working out as planned.


I read that another way. I think Parcells believed a stop gap veteran would only get them to 8-8 and not help in the long term. I think he was surprised at 10 wins and didn't expect 8.

[iceberg]

ice berg please refrains from your childish comments .


I told you why we signed Henson in a previous post.


If Carter doesnt have an excellcent season and bring this team far in the playoffs , Henson more then likely will be the starting qb next season . If Carter does he will more then likely be the starter next season.

Henson is the Plan B future Qb Plan in case Carter doesnt work out. This is the make or breaki year for Quincy Carter and his future with the Dallas Cowboys

''I believe Quincy will do it , i believe with all my heart he can , hes trying to do it ''

Bill Parcells Last year Pc

1 - i can't dude. it's who i am. you can't stop defending carter, i can't stop letting my inner child deal with childlike things.
2 - i'm sure you had a good carter defense ready. damn i'm gonna be sorry i missed that one.
3 - plan b. yea, ok. you keep telling yourself that and that carter isn't a stop gap measure to "plan b".
4 - i'm sure parcells believed he's "trying" - for the record, i think all the players "are trying".

sweet defense dude. i may have to think next time. sorry, i'll go spank that child now for you. COME HERE KID!

[The Curly One]

No! This is a joke right?

"267 1 TD 1 INT VIKINGS AWAY W
252 2 0 BROWNS HOME W
189 0 1 REDSKIN AWAY W
284 3 0 GIANTS HOME W
242 2 0 STEELER HOME W
171 1 2 PACKERS AWAY L
313 3 0 LIONS HOME W
176 1 1 BENGALS AWAY W
202 1 1 EAGLES HOME W
159 0 3 RAVENS AWAY L
277 2 0 BEARS HOME W
303 2 2 HAWKS AWAY L
291 2 1 SAINTS HOME W
150 1 2 EAGLES AWAY L
244 2 0 SKINS HOME W
257 2 1 GIANTS AWAY W

YARDS TDS INTS
3,777 25 15"

If you are going to make crasy predictions like that you might as well include the playoff and Super Bowl stats. Curly

[Hostile]

I read that another way. I think Parcells believed a stop gap veteran would only get them to 8-8 and not help in the long term. I think he was surprised at 10 wins and didn't expect 8.
Stealing from Juke...

On the nosey.

No way he felt Carter could get him 10 wins when he decided to pass on the high dollar options of 2003. He admitted he did not know what he had and wanted to see for himself.

After seeing what he had he has added two QBs. That tells me we were less than stellar.

[drover]

Carter is not a bad Qb but too irratic. There is no consistancy from game to game,he has proven that in the past years. Sure he has gone through differant offenses but He makes too may bad decissions. Either trying to force passes into tight coverage to waiting to long in the pocket untill its to late. Is he bad? No. Is he above average? No Average? Yes I would put him in that catagory. Henson may be our saviour but that will be determined in the next few seasons. He may be another Chad. Untill then in Bill I'll trust. QC, Vinny, Or Drew?????? :rolleyes:

[ChrisFul]

Dont worry, blindzebra, you'll get your wish.

There's a reason guys like foofighter, wig/game, EZ, elrhino, Clay, sly, sbk, duane, marsbennet, Tenkamenin, ChicagoJK, woods, even cheif, reality, and Dale barely ever if EVER post anymore.

Hint hint.

A mod and I have even discussed this same thing. This board in the past year has been overrun, and many of the community have felt like this is no longer the community it once was.

You didnt miss me, but I can tell you we sure as hell DONT miss you and your ilk.

And with that, I grant your wish. poof.

[jterrell]

you still didn't answer me - if not bringing in a vet last year was a good sign, why is a years of "stellar growth" warrant bringing in a 41 year old now AND trading for a hopefull franchise qb?

Adding a 41 year old vet makes alot of sense when you only have 1 QB on the roster who has started before. Dallas knew it was jettisoning Hutch. Paying a future 3rd for a prospect doesnt actually mean jack squat. Did Houston drafting Ragone and Henson mean Carr was getting benched???



as for who starts? i hope to god he does. why would you NOT want your starting qb starting again when possible? if not then he got beat out in camp and that's fine also - it's how the game works.

even if he starts, he just won't last. again you dismiss the bad (disliked him less, all the qb competition you said he didn't have last year he now has after showing off for a year...) and refuse to just see the totality.
What makes you the almighty purveyor of who will or wont last. Carter lasted 17 games last year.


back up and see everything. don't root for carter, root for the cowboys. can we and are we trying to improve in that position based on the moves we've made?

Take your own advice. Root for the Cowboys. All of them. Especially the ones who are starting at key positions. We improved at DE as well but that doesnt mean Greg Ellis is getting cut or benched. Depth charts are more than 1 deep. We need to improve at Cb too. Does than mean TNew sucks? We went into last year with nothing behind Carter because BP didnt expect the team to be as good as it was. We weren't going to go this year with dead man walking, Hutch and an undrafted free agent for depth behind Carter.



does this mean instantly carter is out?

no.


Are you trying to fill in for Miss Cleo? You have no idea what BP is thinking.

does this mean the staff isn't sold on carter?

yes.

No it doesnt. IT COULD mean that or it could mean We want depth at QB. Vinny is a 1 year guy to help with developing QC, Henson and maybe Romo. He can also fill in if needed. I didnt assume that or guess at it, BP stated it. He COULD do more than that but BP has stated he WILL do that. Henson has 1st round pedigree but we paid a 4th round price in trade for him. At that cost he is not a lock to be more than a backup. Again we could have easily have added a much higher quality starting QB if BP wanted. The fact he didnt speaks to how he feels about QC just as much as your "major" additions.


does this mean carter may *not* start this year?

sure.

Roy Williams and TNew MAY not start this year too. But all 3 are first teamers right now.


you're a bit early under the circumstances to be doing the "i told you so" dance, dude.

Actually he's a year late. He tried to tell a lot of particularly pathetic posters all last off-season QC would start over Hutch and was chastized by all the good folks who could read BP's mind so well. Most of those guys have new monikers or went elsewhere.

[blindzebra]

Dont worry, blindzebra, you'll get your wish.

There's a reason guys like foofighter, wig/game, EZ, elrhino, Clay, sly, sbk, duane, marsbennet, Tenkamenin, ChicagoJK, woods, even cheif, reality, and Dale barely ever if EVER post anymore.

Hint hint.

A mod and I have even discussed this same thing. This board in the past year has been overrun, and many of the community have felt like this is no longer the community it once was.

You didnt miss me, but I can tell you we sure as hell DONT miss you and your ilk.

And with that, I grant your wish. poof.

Actually most of them started their own site. I guess your buddies forgot to invite you. :D

[jterrell]

Stealing from Juke...

On the nosey.

No way he felt Carter could get him 10 wins when he decided to pass on the high dollar options of 2003. He admitted he did not know what he had and wanted to see for himself.

After seeing what he had he has added two QBs. That tells me we were less than stellar.
Thats like saying signing Dedric Ward means AB is DEFINTELY getting cut or traded. It doesnt. We added 2 guys who are likely just depth QBs. We had money and ammo to do it so we did. I do think BP likes Henson's long term potential but BP didnt add him to battle QC this year. Perhaps it says more about Romo and Hutch than QC? Jacob Rogers is an LT but we drafted him anyway. He will get a shot at RT but may be the answer in 3 or 4 years at LT. We drftaed him for the same reason we traded for Henson: because it represented great value in the front office's opinion with that selection.

The argument is pretty weak. QC could have been replaced at any point in the off-season. He could have been benched, traded, cut or anything else. There were at least 5 big ticket QBs available in some form. Couch has been dangling for almost a full season. Brunell, Garcia, Warner maybe even Brad Johnson and Rich Gannon. Guys were out there for the taking and we took depth guys who had zero shots to start for any team in the league. QC was given off-season assignments and told to work on getting stronger so he WOULDNT TIRE LATE IN THE SEASON AGAIN? If BP didnt plan on starting him why would he care about that????

There's so much wishful thinking in the interpretations.

Last year we all remarked my goodness what happens at QB if QC gets hurt. You think BP didnt say/think the same things? He has now addressed that.

[jterrell]

Actually most of them started their own site. I guess your buddies forgot to invite you. :D
Actually just 3 of the the guys from that list.

They post very similar to you so it might be a place you would enjoy.

[Hostile]

Thats like saying signing Dedric Ward means AB is DEFINTELY getting cut or traded. It doesnt. We added 2 guys who are likely just depth QBs. We had money and ammo to do it so we did. I do think BP likes Henson's long term potential but BP didnt add him to battle QC this year. Perhaps it says more about Romo and Hutch than QC? Jacob Rogers is an LT but we drafted him anyway. He will get a shot at RT but may be the answer in 3 or 4 years at LT. We drftaed him for the same reason we traded for Henson: because it represented great value in the front office's opinion with that selection.

The argument is pretty weak. QC could have been replaced at any point in the off-season. He could have been benched, traded, cut or anything else. There were at least 5 big ticket QBs available in some form. Couch has been dangling for almost a full season. Brunell, Garcia, Warner maybe even Brad Johnson and Rich Gannon. Guys were out there for the taking and we took depth guys who had zero shots to start for any team in the league. QC was given off-season assignments and told to work on getting stronger so he WOULDNT TIRE LATE IN THE SEASON AGAIN? If BP didnt plan on starting him why would he care about that????

There's so much wishful thinking in the interpretations.

Last year we all remarked my goodness what happens at QB if QC gets hurt. You think BP didnt say/think the same things? He has now addressed that.
All I can say is LOL.

[blindzebra]

Actually just 3 of the the guys from that list.

They post very similar to you so it might be a place you would enjoy.

You mean they post unbiased, intelligent opinions based on facts?

[iceberg]

All I can say is LOL.

i'm not even gonna waste my time with a response to jterrell. on one hand i say i root for the team and then he tells me i need to root for the team.

i could never recover from that.

i'm just so sick and tired of every carter supporter blowing off fact after fact with excuse after excuse.

[adbutcher]

Sad but true.
Dont worry, blindzebra, you'll get your wish.

There's a reason guys like foofighter, wig/game, EZ, elrhino, Clay, sly, sbk, duane, marsbennet, Tenkamenin, ChicagoJK, woods, even cheif, reality, and Dale barely ever if EVER post anymore.

Hint hint.

A mod and I have even discussed this same thing. This board in the past year has been overrun, and many of the community have felt like this is no longer the community it once was.

You didnt miss me, but I can tell you we sure as hell DONT miss you and your ilk.

And with that, I grant your wish. poof.

[Hostile]

There's a reason guys like foofighter, wig/game, EZ, elrhino, Clay, sly, sbk, duane, marsbennet, Tenkamenin, ChicagoJK, woods, even cheif, reality, and Dale barely ever if EVER post anymore.
Actually let's be fair here.

Reality rarely posted on either site. He has a lot on his plate.

Dale is still a Moderator here, is trying to launch a career as a writer, has a new girlfriend, and is a college student with work to do there.

Duane is a Moderator here and hasn't left. I suspect once the season starts he will post more.

The same can be said of Tenkamenin, Foo Fighter, Chief, ChicagoJK, Woods, marsbennett, and Clay_Allison. All of them are members here, post occasionally, have stuff going on in their personal lives, and will probably post a little more once the season gets here. They may belong to other forums, I wouldn't know. I do know they have not left here completely, they just have other stuff going on.

boozeman, sbk92, EmmittZone22, Bob_Roberts, Hatch, Midswat, and Dallas (hope I didn't forget anyone) created their own forum. One of the goals of that forum was that what could be said was less restricted than what we allow here. In other words the Q wars most likely still rage there, but with the ability to speak or say a lot that we try to keep down for harmony's sake. I no longer have the URL as you have to be a member there and I don't feel I would be welcome. They did not leave for the reasons you just suggested, quite the opposite.

Very much the same can be said of Sly who is a member of another forum that I belong to. That one is very much a freedom to say whatever you want and is a private group in many ways. He certainly did not leave for the reason you say.

Jameswoods left because he felt the Quincy Carter supporters got every benefit of the doubt. We try to be equitable but some people may not feel that we are. He wrote a thread that was going to start a war on a day that the wars were in full bloom and it got moved to the Smack Talk forum. His complaint was that Carter supporters can say anything they want that is praise and it doesn't get moved unless the Carter doubters add their 2 cents, but his thread got moved before Carter's supporters or doubters ever really turned it in to Smack Talk. So he left because of the Q support.

ElRhino did leave because of the bashing of Q. I miss him a lot. As an ardent Q supporter he was also a very good debater and I loved to read what he wrote as he was great with facts. He's been invited back.

So that is 1 guy who has left because of the Q bashing, 2 who have left because we try to tone down the Q bashing, and a number of guys who left because they wanted a place where they were free to say whatever they want about any subject. Hardly a clique.

Lots of people have suggested to me that this site is less bound by the Q wars than the previous site. Many feel that the tone here is better and the forum friendlier. I am sorry that you don't feel that it is. I think you take stuff said about Q too personal. The day you decided to go into exile you were furious at me, and I was trying to tone down the Q wars. I still don't know what I did to upset you, mostly because you keep assuring me it was not me, but it was me you were taking it out on.

Members of forums will come and go. That is their choice. No one forces anyone to stay. This forum is the best place for news, updates, rumors, and deabtes about the Dallas Cowboys anywhere on the Internet. There is no possible way we can make you, me or any poster 100% happy all the time. It just can't happen. All we can do is our very best to try and make as many posters as possible happy.

I've said it over and over, the debates reflect what the media is writing about. The articles drive the debates. We had a ton of debates about racial slurs, Antonio Bryant, the Draft, Larry Allen, and the off season signings when those were the big stories. The QB controversy in Dallas will be a big story until one of these 5 men step up and grab the fans.

I suspect even then there will be some backlash because this has become so ugly. Right now Tony Romo is the only QB on our roster getting a free pass from harsh criticism. I imagine that is because he has not had his shot and is not expected to get one. Vinny's age makes him a target. Hutch's fumbling makes him a target. Carter's decision making makes him a target. Henson is in the same boat as Romo, but feelings are he can step up and people are excited so naturally people are also skeptical. We get told regularly that he will amount to nothing, can't live up to the hype, isn't very good, etc. All interesting concepts given he hasn't had a shot yet.

Everybody's got a horse in this race and an opinion or 100 to share on the subject. In a land of Free Speech and on a public forum you cannot and should not expect people to refrain from saying how they feel. A lot of people discuss stuff by saying funny little things. This more than anything seems to upset some people. I'm sorry about that. I can't force people to not try and be funny. In fact I wouldn't.