Irvin on Live

[Future]

did anybody happen to see either NFL Live or COld Hard Facts w/ Michael Irvin on espn? He was talking about Norv Turner and his offensive system saying how he made Alvin Harper a superstar. I got the impression that he was sayin harper was no good, didn't sound like a good hting to say. Anybody else see that?

[Deacon Moss]

did anybody happen to see either NFL Live or COld Hard Facts w/ Michael Irvin on espn? He was talking about Norv Turner and his offensive system saying how he made Alvin Harper a superstar. I got the impression that he was sayin harper was no good, didn't sound like a good hting to say. Anybody else see that?

Did'nt see it, although maybe not a good thing to say publicly, but he may be on to something...being as Harper really did'nt have much of a career once he left Dallas!!!

[Qwickdraw]

No.
But I did catch Irvin's comments on the latest T.O. debacle where he said it's foolish of Philly and their fans to stand strong in their stance regarding T.O. because they are going to lose games as a result of it and he said they should give T.O. the money he wants and make a promise to do so beginning next year.

I love Irvin but sometimes, he shows his ignorance as well. I couldn't disagree with him more and my hat's off to everyone in Philly that is responding to T.O. and his charades with "Tough".

[Deacon Moss]

No.
But I did catch Irvin's comments on the latest T.O. debacle where he said it's foolish of Philly and their fans to stand strong in their stance regarding T.O. because they are going to lose games as a result of it and he said they should give T.O. the money he wants and make a promise to do so beginning next year.

I love Irvin but sometimes, he shows his ignorance as well. I couldn't disagree with him more and my hat's off to everyone in Philly that is responding to T.O. and his charades with "Tough".

So because Irvin sides with TO makes him ignorant??? and he also said does'nt particularly agree with how TO is goin about things.

I think Irv does have a point when he says that the Eagles attempt to save face and play hard ball with him, will ultimately cost them ballgames.

[silverbear]

So because Irvin sides with TO makes him ignorant??? and he also said does'nt particularly agree with how TO is goin about things.

I think Irv does have a point when he says that the Eagles attempt to save face and play hard ball with him, will ultimately cost them ballgames.

Caving in to Owens' attempt at extortion will cost them more ballgames, down the road... if they let him get away with this crap, they'll be setting themselves up for the same treatment by every player who wants to get paid more...

[Jack Burton]

Caving in to Owens' attempt at extortion will cost them more ballgames, down the road... if they let him get away with this crap, they'll be setting themselves up for the same treatment by every player who wants to get paid more...


I couldn't agree with you more.

[burmafrd]

Irvin has a weakness for loudmouths.
As regards Harper- the moment he left Dallas, he disappeared. By the time he came back, he had nothing left. He was really good in our system, but did nothing anywhere else. Pretty much says it all.

[Deacon Moss]

Irvin has a weakness for loudmouths.
As regards Harper- the moment he left Dallas, he disappeared. By the time he came back, he had nothing left. He was really good in our system, but did nothing anywhere else. Pretty much says it all.

When did he come back??? You might be thinking of Kelvin Martin.

[dstew60105]

When did he come back??? You might be thinking of Kelvin Martin.

He came back for a couple of games in Campo's tenure. He sucked upon his return.

[TheSkaven]

I saw the segment. Yeah, he dissed Alvin Harper bad, basically made him sound like a throwaway. While I agree that Harper didn't have the best career, our passing offense sure was good when he was here. We never did find a replacement for him (maybe the Rocket)

[BlueWave]

So because Irvin sides with TO makes him ignorant??? and he also said does'nt particularly agree with how TO is goin about things.

I think Irv does have a point when he says that the Eagles attempt to save face and play hard ball with him, will ultimately cost them ballgames.


Basically, yes. Irvin has been up Owens @ss for the last two years. Every chance he gets, has kisses his butt.

To tell you the truth, I don't like Irvin. Had he not been a Cowboy, I likely would have the same distain for him that I have for Owens right now. Because he was a Cowboy, I cheered for him. But, by no means, did I like him or the way he presented himself as a Cowboy.

[Dat mans bro]

I don't think Harper was as bad as Irvin made him out to be. But on the flip side, he had single coverage most of the time since defenses concentrated onthe run, Irvin, or novacek. So, it wasn't like he was breaking double coverage or against the best CB on the other team. but he did catch the ball, make the big plays when asked of him. Ismail was obviously a better receiver as he could break free, had better speed, and get open, but could he have made the the same plays? Probably, but a lot of speculation as in all these discussions.

Nonetheless, I liked Harper and felt he was a a good cog in the offensive machine we had in those days. Why he never kept up his numbers when he left Big D? Work ethic, too much pressure as a #1? Or after he got paid, it got compacent.

By the way, last I heard about him, he was working as a assistant coach or something at Howard University or something like that.

[Dat mans bro]

Oh regarding the whole Irvins opinion on TO. He's wrong IMO. i don't care who you are, you sign a deal, you stick to it. If anyone listened to Mike and Mike this morning, Greeney was right. He said that everything that TO said in last nights interview was me, me, me. I came back from injury to prove people wrong, I sacrificed my body, I ..balh, blah, blah. why give into a guy that may do this again if the receivers pay average goes up next year?

Reid told him the deal was bad. his prior agent said the same. He wanted to be in Philly. He signed it. Live with it as there is no place to go that can accomodate 15M give up draft picks and will deal with him. I hope they do a Keyshawm on him and just pay him and sit him.

Ahh....I feel better. Oh yeah, the whole TO and mom T shirt was just so stupid to wear in trying to get sympathy.

[bigcrob]

I remember when Emmitt Smith held out for more money after our first of three superbowls and every Cowboy fan was saying give Emmit his money. Now I hate the Eagles, but I would get better joy out betting them with TO than without.

[BlueWave]

Oh regarding the whole Irvins opinion on TO. He's wrong IMO. i don't care who you are, you sign a deal, you stick to it. If anyone listened to Mike and Mike this morning, Greeney was right. He said that everything that TO said in last nights interview was me, me, me. I came back from injury to prove people wrong, I sacrificed my body, I ..balh, blah, blah. why give into a guy that may do this again if the receivers pay average goes up next year?

Reid told him the deal was bad. his prior agent said the same. He wanted to be in Philly. He signed it. Live with it as there is no place to go that can accomodate 15M give up draft picks and will deal with him. I hope they do a Keyshawm on him and just pay him and sit him.

Ahh....I feel better. Oh yeah, the whole TO and mom T shirt was just so stupid to wear in trying to get sympathy.

The guy is an idiot. I'm no McNabb fan, but that's mainly because he is an Eagle. If McNabb was a Dolphin or something, I wouldn't mind him. That being said, the way Owens has just flat our started to talk bad about McNabb on every interview and show is no going to sit well. Owens is not pulling any punches or taking the high road. It's almost like he is waiting for the chance to say something bad about McNabb. How can that ever be repaired?

[Hollywood Henderson]

Irvin is right, filthy plays hardball & it will cost them games...

TO was also right, he called it like he saw it...McChunky soup was BEAT A$$ tired in the Super Bowl...TO was injured yet still came back and nearly helped them win...He did play hard & tough...But its never good to call out a teammate for one of the reasons you LOST the game.

That being said...Go ahead Filthy, play hardball and we will pass you this year!

[Jarv]

The guy is an idiot. I'm no McNabb fan, but that's mainly because he is an Eagle. If McNabb was a Dolphin or something, I wouldn't mind him. That being said, the way Owens has just flat our started to talk bad about McNabb on every interview and show is no going to sit well. Owens is not pulling any punches or taking the high road. It's almost like he is waiting for the chance to say something bad about McNabb. How can that ever be repaired?

McNabb and that San Fran QB....I see a pattern here...throw me the ball 1,000 times a year or I diss you.

[MaineBoy]

Rgarding Irvin and his comments on Harper....As a Cowboy fan, I sure am glad we had Harper in one of the most important games in franchise history - the first NFC Chanpionship game in San Fran...The Boys were just coming back and beating San Fran - in San Fran - in an NFC CHampionship game was a huge hurdle and far from guaranteed at the time....especially when they kept playing clips of "The Catch"...

Alvin made clutch plays that made the difference (3rd down slant run when we needed a first down badly) and maybe someone else could have made the plays, who knows, but we do know that Harper did. And I do remember at the time that Irvin was frustrated because Harper had more going in that San Fran game.

No, Harper was no star and he was a system player and a complimentary player but he was the one who was there and made the plays. Irvin didn't need to diss him. To what end ?

[WoodysGirl]

I watched the show and it didn't seem like Irvin was dissing Harper to me. If you put it into context, he was talking about Norv's offense and how Jordan and Moss were really gonna thrive. He basically said if he can turn Harper into a star, then what do you think he can do with a guy like Moss?

From a cowboys standpoint, I appreciate all that Harper gave, which was very clutch in many ways. But after he left the boys, he did nothing. He was a true #2 and left for #1 money and still only produced #2 results.

[Nerm]

Harper did make big plays including one of my five favorite plays of all time (the slant against SF). However, he was not a great WR at all. He never had a season with more than 850 yards, he would disappear for long stretches of the regular season, and he never had a playoff game with more than 4 catches.

My theory was that Harper was very average, except for his leaping ability. Troy had the accuracy to put a ball a few inches higher than a CB could jump (but not too high for Harper). Once he left Dallas, the QBs he played with didn’t have the same accuracy and didn’t take advantage of his ability to out jump CBs for the ball.

I will say this though, if I had to throw a ball up for grabs in the endzone, I wouldn’t mind having Harper as the WR fighting for it.

[Tobal]

Harper wasn't even an avg number 2 once he left Dallas.

[Kangaroo]

I remember when Emmitt Smith held out for more money after our first of three superbowls and every Cowboy fan was saying give Emmit his money. Now I hate the Eagles, but I would get better joy out betting them with TO than without.

Emmitt was not under contract; his contract had expired

So if Owens was not under a sined contract that he was told not to sign then that is on him

[adbutcher]

Don't be fooled, it is all about the "W", if you get enough of them you keep your job and everyone is happy. If you get too many "Ls" then say bye-bye.

The iggles are in a tough spot, I am curious to see their stance if they start 0-3 / 0-4. Right now they are under the impression that they can win with or without T.O.

[Phoenix-Talon]

[QUOTE=adbutcher]Don't be fooled, it is all about the "W", if you get enough of them you keep your job and everyone is happy. If you get too many "Ls" then say bye-bye.

No argument ...because that statement is true.


Right now they (the Eagles) are under the impression that they can win with or without T.O.

Only because we've demonstrated that in 2004 AB!

[jimmy40]

I remember when Emmitt Smith held out for more money after our first of three superbowls and every Cowboy fan was saying give Emmit his money. Now I hate the Eagles, but I would get better joy out betting them with TO than without.When did Emmitt hold out?

[kartr]

No.
But I did catch Irvin's comments on the latest T.O. debacle where he said it's foolish of Philly and their fans to stand strong in their stance regarding T.O. because they are going to lose games as a result of it and he said they should give T.O. the money he wants and make a promise to do so beginning next year.

I love Irvin but sometimes, he shows his ignorance as well. I couldn't disagree with him more and my hat's off to everyone in Philly that is responding to T.O. and his charades with "Tough".

That's your Philly bias that makes you think Irvin is wrong. TO is the only receiver they have. He's going to have to make up the difference for both Freddy Mitchell and Pinkston being gone, plus produced more than all of their other receivers put together last year. TO is also not getting any younger, but is still an elite player and who wants to get that final big payday while he can, because the Eagles will show him door as soon as his production slips.
The NFL is a business not just for the management, but for the players as well.

[Chocolate Lab]

Basically, yes. Irvin has been up Owens @ss for the last two years. Every chance he gets, has kisses his butt.

To tell you the truth, I don't like Irvin. Had he not been a Cowboy, I likely would have the same distain for him that I have for Owens right now. Because he was a Cowboy, I cheered for him. But, by no means, did I like him or the way he presented himself as a Cowboy.
I might not go quite that far, but I'm pretty much with you.

Irvin has always sided with Owens simply because -- I guess -- he's a fellow talented receiver who loves attention. But Irvin is wrong as can be on this.

And I'm tired of him screaming at me.

[kartr]

Caving in to Owens' attempt at extortion will cost them more ballgames, down the road... if they let him get away with this crap, they'll be setting themselves up for the same treatment by every player who wants to get paid more...

Every player in the league isn't an elite player. Do you really think that Freddy Mitchell or Pinkston are as good as TO.

[kartr]

Irvin has a weakness for loudmouths.
As regards Harper- the moment he left Dallas, he disappeared. By the time he came back, he had nothing left. He was really good in our system, but did nothing anywhere else. Pretty much says it all.

Rodney Peete agrees with Irvin too. Is he a loud-mouth?

[Doomsday101]

Every player in the league isn't an elite player. Do you really think that Freddy Mitchell or Pinkston are as good as TO.

Philly did not twist TO arm to sign the current contract he has, TO agreed to the deal and Philly agreed to the deal it is up to TO to honor the deal.

[kartr]

I remember when Emmitt Smith held out for more money after our first of three superbowls and every Cowboy fan was saying give Emmit his money. Now I hate the Eagles, but I would get better joy out betting them with TO than without.

You are correct sir. If people don't like you, you're always wrong, if they do like you then you can do no wrong. Take Manning for instance, he knew by taking all that money he got, there was a chance they wouldn't be able to sign Edge long-term. Nobody called him on it. Nobody said, 'dude, you've got a first round RB, two first round receivers and a first round tight end and one of the best offensive lines in football, yet a mediocre defense, if take less money, you can keep Edge and pick up some quality free agents on defense too'. But no, he sucks up all the money, can't get it done with a dream team supporting cast, while Brady takes less money and has three rings.

[matthew]

Harper came back during the '99 season (Chan Gailey), after Irvin went down in Philly. He came back out of shape, and was mostly on the inactive list that season.

[kartr]

The guy is an idiot. I'm no McNabb fan, but that's mainly because he is an Eagle. If McNabb was a Dolphin or something, I wouldn't mind him. That being said, the way Owens has just flat our started to talk bad about McNabb on every interview and show is no going to sit well. Owens is not pulling any punches or taking the high road. It's almost like he is waiting for the chance to say something bad about McNabb. How can that ever be repaired?

I wonder if Bledsoe knows that most of the qb's who've won superbowls or been in one are good runners while the superbowl losers(Marino,Bledsoe,Kerry Collins) are usually immobile stiffs like him.

[kartr]

Harper wasn't even an avg number 2 once he left Dallas.

Does anybody know who the qb was in Tampa when Harper was there. That might have made some difference.

[kartr]

Philly did not twist TO arm to sign the current contract he has, TO agreed to the deal and Philly agreed to the deal it is up to TO to honor the deal.

Would Philly honor the deal if TO gets injured permanently? Hell no!

[junk]

I wonder if Bledsoe knows that most of the qb's who've won superbowls or been in one are good runners while the superbowl losers(Marino,Bledsoe,Kerry Collins) are usually immobile stiffs like him.

Uh, you might want to rethink that. Most of the Super Bowl winners have been pocket QBs. Some had some exceptional mobility (Young, Elway), but even they weren't relying on it that heavily when winning Super Bowls.

Aikman won three, he wasn't exactly mobile. Brady isn't exactly mobile. Brad Johnson? Hardly. Kurt Warner? A statue. Trent Dilfer? Farve? Simms? McMahon?

I wouldn't call any of those guys extremely mobile with the exception of early Elway and Young.

You don't have to run around like an idiot to be a good QB. You just have to be able to feel the rush and be able to step in the pocket or throw it away.

[Doomsday101]

Uh, you might want to rethink that. Most of the Super Bowl winners have been pocket QBs. Some had some exceptional mobility (Young, Elway), but even they weren't relying on it that heavily when winning Super Bowls.

Aikman won three, he wasn't exactly mobile. Brady isn't exactly mobile. Brad Johnson? Hardly. Kurt Warner? A statue. Trent Dilfer? Farve? Simms? McMahon?

I wouldn't call any of those guys extremely mobile with the exception of early Elway and Young.

You don't have to run around like an idiot to be a good QB. You just have to be able to feel the rush and be able to step in the pocket or throw it away.

Getting the job done is all that matters there have been plenty of pocket QB's whose teams have won the whole thing as well as some mobile QB's in the end though teams win SB not QB's

[Kangaroo]

You are correct sir. If people don't like you, you're always wrong, if they do like you then you can do no wrong. Take Manning for instance, he knew by taking all that money he got, there was a chance they wouldn't be able to sign Edge long-term. Nobody called him on it. Nobody said, 'dude, you've got a first round RB, two first round receivers and a first round tight end and one of the best offensive lines in football, yet a mediocre defense, if take less money, you can keep Edge and pick up some quality free agents on defense too'. But no, he sucks up all the money, can't get it done with a dream team supporting cast, while Brady takes less money and has three rings.

Not true this board was laughing it up when manning sign that contract over the fact he will put up great numbers but may never win it all; because of his contract. I think Manning has about a 2-3 year window hear before it slams shut on him.

[Chuck 54]

did anybody happen to see either NFL Live or COld Hard Facts w/ Michael Irvin on espn? He was talking about Norv Turner and his offensive system saying how he made Alvin Harper a superstar. I got the impression that he was sayin harper was no good, didn't sound like a good hting to say. Anybody else see that?
I thought it was fairly obvious to everyone by now, and didn't need saying, that Harper was average at best...certainly no more than a complimentary receiver...never had what it takes to be a #1.

[Doomsday101]

I thought it was fairly obvious to everyone by now, and didn't need saying, that Harper was average at best...certainly no more than a complimentary receiver...never had what it takes to be a #1.

I agree, Tampa got Harper to be their #1 WR problem was Harper was never a #1 guy to begin with. Harper had many drops in Dallas, yes he would make the spectacular catch but he tended to drop the easy ones.

[Sportsbabe]

Irvin has a weakness for loudmouths.

:lmao:

As I have a weakness for tall, dark chocolate in a suit. ;)

TO came across very childish last night. I hope they pull a "keyshawn" on his tail .... deactivate.

[Sportsbabe]

...the way Owens has just flat our started to talk bad about McNabb on every interview and show is no going to sit well. Owens is not pulling any punches or taking the high road. It's almost like he is waiting for the chance to say something bad about McNabb. How can that ever be repaired?

I totally agree. How does he ever expect to get another pass from McNabb. I'll tell you what, he would be my 3rd read every time. And if I did throw him the ball, I would lay him out right nicely. Next year we'll have the TO rule "50 yard penalty for killing a receiver in the act of catching a pass". :lmao2:

[SupermanXx]

Basically, yes. Irvin has been up Owens @ss for the last two years. Every chance he gets, has kisses his butt.

To tell you the truth, I don't like Irvin. Had he not been a Cowboy, I likely would have the same distain for him that I have for Owens right now. Because he was a Cowboy, I cheered for him. But, by no means, did I like him or the way he presented himself as a Cowboy.

I don't hate you, but I don't like you either

[jimmy40]

I totally agree. How does he ever expect to get another pass from McNabb. I'll tell you what, he would be my 3rd read every time. And if I did throw him the ball, I would lay him out right nicely. Next year we'll have the TO rule "50 yard penalty for killing a receiver in the act of catching a pass". :lmao2:That would be a great way for McNabb to get HIMSELF killed. When TO gets on the field, and he will, McNabb WILL look for TO first because TO will be by far the best receiver on the field. To think anything else is just rediculous.

[Doomsday101]

That would be a great way for McNabb to get HIMSELF killed. When TO gets on the field, and he will, McNabb WILL look for TO first because TO will be by far the best receiver on the field. To think anything else is just rediculous.

I would not be surprised to see Philly attempt a trade of some sort to bring in a WR. If TO is not there after his 10 day suspension I think it is very likely they would look to a guy like Price with Atl.

[Future]

Does anybody know who the qb was in Tampa when Harper was there. That might have made some difference.

Thats what i was thinking. I don't remember Tampa Bay having any receivers, period. Who knows what he could have done if he went somewhere like denver w/ elway or green bay w/ favre.

[jimmy40]

I would not be surprised to see Philly attempt a trade of some sort to bring in a WR. If TO is not there after his 10 day suspension I think it is very likely they would look to a guy like Price with Atl.Could be, but if TO is on the field McNabb will be looking
to throw the ball to him. Nobody in the world hates TO as much as Jeff Garcia but who did he throw the ball to? TO, because he was the best receiver he had. All this not throwing the ball to TO crap is just wishfull thinking. Understandable, but wishfull thinking.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I wonder if Bledsoe knows that most of the qb's who've won superbowls or been in one are good runners while the superbowl losers(Marino,Bledsoe,Kerry Collins) are usually immobile stiffs like him.

Don't agree with this. This is speculation. What is mobile and what is immobile? To subjective. That's like somebody posting something to the effect that running QBs can't win the big one. That too is incorrect, IMO.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Does anybody know who the qb was in Tampa when Harper was there. That might have made some difference.

Now this is an excellent point. The team that Harper went to was horrid offensively.

[Doomsday101]

Could be, but if TO is on the field McNabb will be looking
to throw the ball to him. Nobody in the world hates TO as much as Jeff Garcia but who did he throw the ball to? TO, because he was the best receiver he had. All this not throwing the ball to TO crap is just wishfull thinking. Understandable, but wishfull thinking.

I agree with you, McNabb will look at him as a target and deliever the ball. McNabb would only be hurting himself to do otherwise.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I completely disagree with Irvin on the point of Philly and TO as well. I think Philly is going to feel the pain of not having WRs this year but this, to me, is a short term problem. They will have to suffer now to prosper later. They have a young WR. He will get very valuable experience this year. They will sign someone else to play WR, assuming they move TO or they will force TO back in line and he will be there marquee guy. They will probably draft another young WR or trade for another. IMO, it is a mistake to cave on this thing. TO is making money. He's getting paid. If this club caves on TO, it will only be a matter of time before it's something else. Eventually, Philly will be forced to take a stand or lose all credibility. Just not in the long term best interests of that club, IMO.

[tyke1doe]

^ ^
l l
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What he said. :)