screw this 3-4 crap

[lane]

ellis
ferguson
glover
canty

ware
shanle
dat


henry
beriault
williams
newman

let's roll.

[blindzebra]

ellis
ferguson
glover
canty

ware
shanle
dat
fowler

henry
beriault
williams
newman

let's roll.

That looks like a 4-4 and a penalty to me.:D

[ratpower]

ellis
ferguson
glover
canty

ware
shanle
dat


henry
beriault
williams
newman

let's roll.

Spears, Coleman, Pepper, Ratliff...etc provides some depth. Glover and Ferguson in the middle makes for a nice combo that offenses will have to deal with...

Our LB's are a weakness so keep more of them on the bench....Sub out Shanle and sub in James and the front seven are ready...:cool: (also take beriault out for now...)

[lane]

shanle is a ballplayer....... he stays
lynn scott or beriault at fs
spears can spell canty

[Woods]

I don't think BP thought a couple of months ago he'd have the type of depth he currently has on the DL.

And BP thinks we're short on the depth at OLB.

Hmmmmm . . . . . Maybe a little more 4-3 mixed in with a base 3-4 defense this year than we originally thought? (Don't get too excited Nors.)

[NYCowboy22]

I think we will see quite a bit of 4-3 in order to keep our best players on the field.

[ratpower]

shanle is a ballplayer....... he stays
lynn scott or beriault at fs
spears can spell canty

Shanle is ok so far but the guy is not making plays...he needs to step out of his Al Singleton impersonations from time to time...

Fowler actually hits people and Burnett will be good...I hope Shanle picks it up and we see what BP likes about him soon, otherwise give me someone else.

Also, Cut Lynn Scott and move on with Izell, Davis and Beriault...

[BEASToftheEAST]

Dat at Sam, or Shanle? Either way, I don't like it. We drafted a bunch of 3-4 players to make this transition, why stop? Let's get all these rookies some playing time, develop them, and see if we can't build a great defense for the future?

[the_h0wey]

I think we will end up playing in the 4-3 for the most part this year...

[Smith22]

Whatever defense we run, there is no question our strength is along the DL, not LB'er. It just is. Glover, Ellis and Fergy followed by young guns like Spears and Canty. At LB'er we have Dat with young guns in Ware and Burnett.

5-3 advantage DL. Let ware sub in along the DL and DE and DL wins hands down.

[Woods]

Whatever defense we run, there is no question our strength is along the DL, not LB'er. It just is. Glover, Ellis and Fergy followed by young guns like Spears and Canty. At LB'er we have Dat with young guns in Ware and Burnett.

5-3 advantage DL. Let ware sub in along the DL and DE and DL wins hands down.

I agree 100%.

I think this poses a conundrum to BP.

[junk]

Dat at Sam, or Shanle? Either way, I don't like it. We drafted a bunch of 3-4 players to make this transition, why stop? Let's get all these rookies some playing time, develop them, and see if we can't build a great defense for the future?

Other than Canty, who played which draft pick played full time 3-4 in college?

Answer: None. They were all projected as 3-4 players and came from a 4-3 background.

Anyway, I don't think its really going to be a true 4-3, it'll be more a 3-4 type thing with 4 men on the line from what I hear in press conferences.

[dbair1967]

ellis
ferguson
glover
canty

ware
shanle
dat


henry
beriault
williams
newman

let's roll.

I really think Ware would be a huge liability as a 4-3 OLB...h'd also be stuck in a position where he'd rarely do what we drafted him to do, sack QB's...he's either a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE

David

[Woods]

Other than Canty, who played which draft pick played full time 3-4 in college?

Answer: None. They were all projected as 3-4 players and came from a 4-3 background.

Anyway, I don't think its really going to be a true 4-3, it'll be more a 3-4 type thing with 4 men on the line from what I hear in press conferences.

Can you explain this to me? I read this elsewhere as well.

Not being funny, but with 4 guys on the line, isn't that basically a 4-3 defense?

[MichaelWinicki]

Can you explain this to me? I read this elsewhere as well.

Not being funny, but with 4 guys on the line, isn't that basically a 4-3 defense?


Well we're going to be using a 4-2-5 a lot and a 4-1-6 some.

[Woods]

Well we're going to be using a 4-2-5 a lot and a 4-1-6 some.

Ahhhh . . . . I guess with Roy Williams that extra DB is almost like a LB anyway in a 4-2-5.

Thanks MW.

[MichaelWinicki]

Ahhhh . . . . I guess with Roy Williams that extra DB is almost like a LB anyway in a 4-2-5.

Thanks MW.


True Woods. I've said the same thing.

[junk]

Can you explain this to me? I read this elsewhere as well.

Not being funny, but with 4 guys on the line, isn't that basically a 4-3 defense?

Gap assignments differ in a 4-3 and 3-4. I would imagine that is what Parcells is alluding to.

More two gap assignments along the DL as opposed to giving them one gap assignments and giving LBers gap assignments.

Once again, guess work on my part.

[joseephuss]

I really think Ware would be a huge liability as a 4-3 OLB...h'd also be stuck in a position where he'd rarely do what we drafted him to do, sack QB's...he's either a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE

David

I agree. This early in his career with his size, he may struggle as a full time 4-3 DE, so he is best suited for 3-4 OLB. Although he is still learning that position. His progress is going to be fun to watch.

[Doomsday101]

I agree. This early in his career with his size, he may struggle as a full time 4-3 DE, so he is best suited for 3-4 OLB. Although he is still learning that position. His progress is going to be fun to watch.

I agree but looking at his size I see it is about the same as Haley both in terms of height and weight so I would not rule out his effectiveness in the 4-3 based purely on his size

[MichaelWinicki]

It's hard to say if Ware would be more or less likely to succeed as a 4-3 OLB. He's a 4.6 40 guy with good quickness. He probably has more physical skill than many 4-3 OLB in the NFL.

[MichaelWinicki]

I agree but looking at his size I see it is about the same as Haley both in terms of height and weight so I would not rule out his effectiveness in the 4-3 based purely on his size


Very true.

[Doomsday101]

Very true.

People seem to get to caught up in terms of size but Haley played at 6-foot-5, 245 and did a damn fine job as a DE in the 4-3. I'm not trying to compare a rookie to one of the all time greats by any means but I'm not willing to sell Ware short of what he may accomplish in either defenses

[Bungarian]

The 4-3 Parcells was talking about playing is not the 4-3

It is the 3-4 played with one more person on the line. All the other players play the 3-4 defense like normal. The real 4-3 is completly different.

[joseephuss]

People seem to get to caught up in terms of size but Haley played at 6-foot-5, 245 and did a damn fine job as a DE in the 4-3. I'm not trying to compare a rookie to one of the all time greats by any means but I'm not willing to sell Ware short of what he may accomplish in either defenses

I should clarify. I think Ware will eventually be an effective 4-3 DE. My main concern is that he is just a rookie. He does remind me of Haley, but it is hard to make that comparison at this time. Haley was an experienced vet when he made the transition from the 3-4 in SanFran to the 4-3 in Dallas.

Rushing the passer as a 4-3 end for Ware should be the easy part. Stopping the run is where the concern is and will be the biggest part of he learning process in that position. I think he will get it, but it will take time. Parcells has said that is where is concerns are at this time as well.

Plus, while he can be a 4-3 DE, his best position at this time is a 3-4 OLB. Let's get the best out of him for now.

[Doomsday101]

I should clarify. I think Ware will eventually be an effective 4-3 DE. My main concern is that he is just a rookie. He does remind me of Haley, but it is hard to make that comparison at this time. Haley was an experienced vet when he made the transition from the 3-4 in SanFran to the 4-3 in Dallas.

Rushing the passer as a 4-3 end for Ware should be the easy part. Stopping the run is where the concern is and will be the biggest part of he learning process in that position. I think he will get it, but it will take time. Parcells has said that is where is concerns are at this time as well.

Plus, while he can be a 4-3 DE, his best position at this time is a 3-4 OLB. Let's get the best out of him for now.

I agree with you and for a while early in Haley career the knock on him was his play aginst the run but he proved to be effective in that area as well. Right now the only struggles I'm hearing for Ware has to do with his pass coverage as the OLB I'm sure the Cowboys will continue to work with him on that part of his game

[vicjagger]

Can you explain this to me? I read this elsewhere as well.

Not being funny, but with 4 guys on the line, isn't that basically a 4-3 defense?
A 3-4 often has 4 men on the line, but the 4th will be an OLB, rather than a DE. The difference between the two lies not in the number on the line, but in the positions they line up (directly across from somone, off a shoulder or in a gap), gap responsibilities and technique.

You'll find an excellent article describing these differences at www.footballoutsiders.com

[Hollywood Henderson]

:rolleyes:

[Derinyar]

I should clarify. I think Ware will eventually be an effective 4-3 DE. My main concern is that he is just a rookie. He does remind me of Haley, but it is hard to make that comparison at this time. Haley was an experienced vet when he made the transition from the 3-4 in SanFran to the 4-3 in Dallas.

Rushing the passer as a 4-3 end for Ware should be the easy part. Stopping the run is where the concern is and will be the biggest part of he learning process in that position. I think he will get it, but it will take time. Parcells has said that is where is concerns are at this time as well.

Plus, while he can be a 4-3 DE, his best position at this time is a 3-4 OLB. Let's get the best out of him for now.
His best position is one that hes learning on the fly?

[SALADIN]

That looks like a 4-4 and a penalty to me.:D


:lmao: :lmao2:

[AbeBeta]

ellis
ferguson
glover
canty

ware
shanle
dat


let's roll.

Why put Ware in a role where he isn't going to have a primary responsibility of rushing the QB?

[dwmyers]

Well we're going to be using a 4-2-5 a lot and a 4-1-6 some.

heh, with Roy Williams in the game a 4-2-5 is basically a 4-3 anyway. That, of course, makes our base defenses a de facto 3-5-3 and a 4-4-3 ;)

David.

[joseephuss]

His best position is one that hes learning on the fly?

Sounds funny doesn't it. It is because it gives him the best angles to get to the QB and rushing the passer is the thing he does best. Because of his athleticism, they feel more comfortable with him learning to cover as an 3-4 OLB than standing up against the run as a 4-3 DE. It is not that he does one poorly, just he can do one better at this time. Over time I think he will learn to do both very well.

[junk]

A 3-4 often has 4 men on the line, but the 4th will be an OLB, rather than a DE. The difference between the two lies not in the number on the line, but in the positions they line up (directly across from somone, off a shoulder or in a gap), gap responsibilities and technique.

You'll find an excellent article describing these differences at www.footballoutsiders.com

Good point. And there are also frequently five men on the line in a 3-4 as both OLBs step on the line.

However, in this case, I think Parcells is talking about 4 actual DL on the field. My guess is some combination of Ellis, Spears, Glover, Canty and Ferguson.

[Yeagermeister]

Originally Posted by blindzebra
That looks like a 4-4 and a penalty to me.

A 12 man defense would kick arse. Always a free player :D

[Canadian BoyzFan]

That looks like a 4-4 and a penalty to me.:D

LMAO!!!

[blindzebra]

Why put Ware in a role where he isn't going to have a primary responsibility of rushing the QB?

He is not going to be rushing the passer every play from 3-4 OLB either, and here is why. Teams will start bringing a TE over, sending someone in motion, running a back out on his side.

AZ flipped their TE a lot, infact on the TD fluke play where Ware hit Warner Ware jammed and released the TE, which was the main reason he got there a bit late.

FYI, Parcells said in his PC that Ware will play both DE and OLB in the 4-3.;)

[AsthmaField]

FYI, Parcells said in his PC that Ware will play both DE and OLB in the 4-3.;)

I'll bet Ware isn't in a OLB/4-3 role very often. IMO, his strength is rushing the passer and he'll be doing that from a OLB/3-4 position and from a DE/4-3 position.

Although you're right, he won't be rushing the passer every down he's playing 3-4 OLB... he'll have the ability to do it on any given play... something that won't be there as a 4-3 OLB.

[blindzebra]

I'll bet Ware isn't in a OLB/4-3 role very often. IMO, his strength is rushing the passer and he'll be doing that from a OLB/3-4 position and from a DE/4-3 position.

Although you're right, he won't be rushing the passer every down he's playing 3-4 OLB... he'll have the ability to do it on any given play... something that won't be there as a 4-3 OLB.

I guess you have never heard of a blitz?;)

By lining up outside of Ellis the zone blitz becomes an option on any down, and his angle from 4-3 OLB with his speed could be scary.:D

[Hollywood Henderson]

Yes, Ware can certainly rush from any poisition he plays...

The point is, he does need to be rushing & pressuring the LOS for game changing impact plays...

No TE or RB is going to be able to block him...You have to bring him at least 75% of the time to excell on D!

[AsthmaField]

I guess you have never heard of a blitz?;)

By lining up outside of Ellis the zone blitz becomes an option on any down, and his angle from 4-3 OLB with his speed could be scary.:D

Of course I've heard of the blitz. Isn't it served at IHOP?

How often have you seen our OLB's in the 4-3 sent after the QB? And that's when we played the 4-3 all the time (except for nickel, etc.) You know as well as I do that if Ware plays much 4-3 OLB that his chances to rush the QB will be minimal.

That's why we never used a first round pick on an OLB before Ware... or at least why it had been a couple of decades since we did. Because those guys make tackles and cover backs and tight ends. They aren't asked to go after the QB with any regularity.

Blind, you're saying he can blitz in a 4-3, which he can... but you know how seldom that happens. Ware is a pass rusher. That's why when we traded for Haley, we put him at DE in a 4-3 instead of OLB... those are the one's who rush the QB in a 4-3.

Most of the time, when we're in a 4-3, Ware will be at DE in passing situations, IMO. On running downs, Parcells won't have any problem with Ware at OLB... more size... why not. But 3rd and long? Ware will be at DE rushing the QB unless Bill wants to do it as some sort of a surprise.

You might could be like Nors and see him rush from an OLB position a few times during the season and say you're right... but Ware won't be doing that with any regularity.

[dbair1967]

I agree but looking at his size I see it is about the same as Haley both in terms of height and weight so I would not rule out his effectiveness in the 4-3 based purely on his size

Haley played DE once we acquired him, not OLB

Ware at DE would be fine in the 4-3 I think, though the pounding on running plays might take a toll on him this yr...3-4 OLB is really his best position IMO

David

[junk]

Of course I've heard of the blitz. Isn't it served at IHOP?

How often have you seen our OLB's in the 4-3 sent after the QB? And that's when we played the 4-3 all the time (except for nickel, etc.) You know as well as I do that if Ware plays much 4-3 OLB that his chances to rush the QB will be minimal.

That's why we never used a first round pick on an OLB before Ware... or at least why it had been a couple of decades since we did. Because those guys make tackles and cover backs and tight ends. They aren't asked to go after the QB with any regularity.

Blind, you're saying he can blitz in a 4-3, which he can... but you know how seldom that happens. Ware is a pass rusher. That's why when we traded for Haley, we put him at DE in a 4-3 instead of OLB... those are the one's who rush the QB in a 4-3.

Most of the time, when we're in a 4-3, Ware will be at DE in passing situations, IMO. On running downs, Parcells won't have any problem with Ware at OLB... more size... why not. But 3rd and long? Ware will be at DE rushing the QB unless Bill wants to do it as some sort of a surprise.

You might could be like Nors and see him rush from an OLB position a few times during the season and say you're right... but Ware won't be doing that with any regularity.

They weren't sent after the QB because there wasn't anyone capable of consistently rushing the QB from an outside LB position.

I am pretty sure it can be done.

[joseephuss]

They weren't sent after the QB because there wasn't anyone capable of consistently rushing the QB from an outside LB position.

I am pretty sure it can be done.

Sure it can be done, but as the start of the thread made it out, do you really want Ware playing OLB in a 4-3 and blitzing occasionly. Or do you want him at OLB in the 3-4 and DE in the 4-3 where he has more opportunities to get to the Qb? Of course we are all setting our expections high of him being succesfull no matter where he lines up. I know I am and I hope he meets those expectations.

[junk]

Sure it can be done, but as the start of the thread made it out, do you really want Ware playing OLB in a 4-3 and blitzing occasionly. Or do you want him at OLB in the 3-4 and DE in the 4-3 where he has more opportunities to get to the Qb? Of course we are all setting our expections high of him being succesfull no matter where he lines up. I know I am and I hope he meets those expectations.

I agree with that. You do want him in a position to make plays. However, you can do that from a 4-3 OLB position as well.

I don't expect there to be as many 4-3 looks so I am alright with him blitzing occasionally in those looks. You can't blitz a guy from a 3-4 OLB position or a 4-3 OLB position every time.

He is going to have to have some coverage responsibilities as well and from most accounts, it sounds like he is pretty good at it.

[blindzebra]

Of course I've heard of the blitz. Isn't it served at IHOP?

How often have you seen our OLB's in the 4-3 sent after the QB? And that's when we played the 4-3 all the time (except for nickel, etc.) You know as well as I do that if Ware plays much 4-3 OLB that his chances to rush the QB will be minimal.

That's why we never used a first round pick on an OLB before Ware... or at least why it had been a couple of decades since we did. Because those guys make tackles and cover backs and tight ends. They aren't asked to go after the QB with any regularity.

Blind, you're saying he can blitz in a 4-3, which he can... but you know how seldom that happens. Ware is a pass rusher. That's why when we traded for Haley, we put him at DE in a 4-3 instead of OLB... those are the one's who rush the QB in a 4-3.

Most of the time, when we're in a 4-3, Ware will be at DE in passing situations, IMO. On running downs, Parcells won't have any problem with Ware at OLB... more size... why not. But 3rd and long? Ware will be at DE rushing the QB unless Bill wants to do it as some sort of a surprise.

You might could be like Nors and see him rush from an OLB position a few times during the season and say you're right... but Ware won't be doing that with any regularity.

When did we have a player at OLB who could get there on a blitz in our old 4-3?

You are using Nors-logic and it's got a major flaw. Change occurs whether or not it's a 3-4 or 4-3, because we have better players.

Parcells has said several times in the last week or two, he's not sure how much 4-3/3-4 we are going to run...and here is the critical part...but I want to get my best players out there the majority of the time.

There is no question that Glover and Ellis are among his best players, and both will play along with Ware in a 4 man front in nickle.

Glover can play some at NT, but he is best in a 4 man front which means more 4-3 than some care to admit.

Parcells said today that Ware will play OLB in the 4-3 some of the time, and if his goal is to get the best 11 out there together, he will have to.;)

[AsthmaField]

They weren't sent after the QB because there wasn't anyone capable of consistently rushing the QB from an outside LB position.

I am pretty sure it can be done.


But will it? I agree with you in principle, junk. But look around the league. How many OLB's in a 4-3 are making many sacks? Look up last year's sack leaders if you wish. I'll bet not many are 4-3 OLB's. They're all DE's.

I know Coakley couldn't pressure the passer much... and Singleton? No. Darren Smith, Dixon Edwards, Randall Godfrey? Maybe none of them either. But I think you're wrong if you say the only reason we didn't send our OLB's after the QB very often is because they weren't good pass rushers. We didn't send them because that isn't what that position in that scheme calls for.

And if that isn't correct, why are there no 4-3 teams with any OLB's with any appreciable sack totals? Why do all of the DE's have all the sacks? Are teams just that unlucky to always pick crappy pass rushers as 4-3 OLB's? Or are they putting the good pass rushers at DE because that's the smart place to play them? Because the OLB doesn't call for that type of athlete?

[AsthmaField]

When did we have a player at OLB who could get there on a blitz in our old 4-3?

You are using Nors-logic and it's got a major flaw. Change occurs whether or not it's a 3-4 or 4-3, because we have better players.

Parcells has said several times in the last week or two, he's not sure how much 4-3/3-4 we are going to run...and here is the critical part...but I want to get my best players out there the majority of the time.

There is no question that Glover and Ellis are among his best players, and both will play along with Ware in a 4 man front in nickle.

Glover can play some at NT, but he is best in a 4 man front which means more 4-3 than some care to admit.

Parcells said today that Ware will play OLB in the 4-3 some of the time, and if his goal is to get the best 11 out there together, he will have to.;)

Most of that argument has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Most of that, we agree on.

And you just had to call me Nors because I call you Nors. :p:

As for you thinking we didn't have an OLB with high sack totals because we didn't have one who could rush the passer... see my response to junk, above.

Parcells may play Ware at OLB in a 4-3... but it will limit his ability to sack the QB.

[junk]

But will it? I agree with you in principle, junk. But look around the league. How many OLB's in a 4-3 are making many sacks? Look up last year's sack leaders if you wish. I'll bet not many are 4-3 OLB's. They're all DE's.

I know Coakley couldn't pressure the passer much... and Singleton? No. Darren Smith, Dixon Edwards, Randall Godfrey? Maybe none of them either. But I think you're wrong if you say the only reason we didn't send our OLB's after the QB very often is because they weren't good pass rushers. We didn't send them because that isn't what that position in that scheme calls for.

And if that isn't correct, why are there no 4-3 teams with any OLB's with any appreciable sack totals? Why do all of the DE's have all the sacks? Are teams just that unlucky to always pick crappy pass rushers as 4-3 OLB's? Or are they putting the good pass rushers at DE because that's the smart place to play them? Because the OLB doesn't call for that type of athlete?

And I am not advocating a full time move there by any stretch either. Occasional looks and occasional blitzes. I think he could do it and be successful.

I really like Ware as a 4-3 end myself. Thats how he made his mark in college.

[AsthmaField]

And I am not advocating a full time move there by any stretch either. Occasional looks and occasional blitzes. I think he could do it and be successful.

I really like Ware as a 4-3 end myself. Thats how he made his mark in college.

Then we are in agreement.

Just like me to pick a fight with two of the charter members of the board. Sheesh.

[blindzebra]

Most of that argument has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Most of that, we agree on.

And you just had to call me Nors because I call you Nors. :p:

As for you thinking we didn't have an OLB with high sack totals because we didn't have one who could rush the passer... see my response to junk, above.

Parcells may play Ware at OLB in a 4-3... but it will limit his ability to sack the QB.

I used the Nors-logic line because that is what he says in his 3-4 mantra, he always compares it to the OLD 4-3, without factoring in the players we have added will change both schemes.

Keep in mind that nickel will be at least a third of the snaps and the most likely time a pass will occur. Ware will be at DE in the 4 man front of our nickel defense.

Depending on match ups, down and distance we will go either 3-4 or 4-3 the rest of the time. So him at OLB in a 4-3 will not greatly impact his pass rush, in fact the element of surprise could help it.

[AsthmaField]

I used the Nors-logic line because that is what he says in his 3-4 mantra, he always compares it to the OLD 4-3, without factoring in the players we have added will change both schemes.

Keep in mind that nickel will be at least a third of the snaps and the most likely time a pass will occur. Ware will be at DE in the 4 man front of our nickel defense.

Depending on match ups, down and distance we will go either 3-4 or 4-3 the rest of the time. So him at OLB in a 4-3 will not greatly impact his pass rush, in fact the element of surprise could help it.

I think you may feel like I'm arguing against a 4-3. That isn't the case. Just because I like the 3-4 doesn't mean that I don't like the 4-3... and I agree with the "get the best players on the field" line of thinking. Who wouldn't?

I'm just saying that as 4-3 OLB in the base 4-3, his pass rushing opportunities will be limited. However, We're in agreement that in the nickel, Ware will be at DE, and that's going to be most of the passing downs... so this whole argument is probably moot anyway.

[blindzebra]

I think you may feel like I'm arguing against a 4-3. That isn't the case. Just because I like the 3-4 doesn't mean that I don't like the 4-3... and I agree with the "get the best players on the field" line of thinking. Who wouldn't?

I'm just saying that as 4-3 OLB in the base 4-3, his pass rushing opportunities will be limited. However, We're in agreement that in the nickel, Ware will be at DE, and that's going to be most of the passing downs... so this whole argument is probably moot anyway.

Actually when all is said in done it may end up 40% nickel/dime, 30% 3-4, 30% 4-3.

The times he was at OLB in the 4-3 were in short yardage against AZ.

I think who we are playing will dictate what we run a lot. There will likely be games where we play very little 4-3 and others little 3-4.

Also keep in mind that in a 3-4 teams will key on him as a pass rusher and do things to disrupt the rush. AZ flipped their TE to his side for example.

In a 4-3 he can blitz wide, we can over shift away from him and he can come between the G and OT, we can zone blitz, we can shift into a 5 man line, and we can stunt or twist.

I'm not trying to make this a 3-4 versus 4-3 debate, I'm just disagreeing that Ware playing some 4-3 OLB will hurt his pass rushing ability.

[50cent]

He is not going to be rushing the passer every play from 3-4 OLB either, and here is why. Teams will start bringing a TE over, sending someone in motion, running a back out on his side.

AZ flipped their TE a lot, infact on the TD fluke play where Ware hit Warner Ware jammed and released the TE, which was the main reason he got there a bit late.

FYI, Parcells said in his PC that Ware will play both DE and OLB in the 4-3.;)To correct you BZ, BP never Stated the 4-3 in todays PC, he always refers to the 4 man front. Whether people like it or understand it, every 3-4 team use a 4 man front. One OLB rushes the passer along with the 3 DL, the other drops into coverage. When Ware drops into a down stance, it just makes it more obvious that he is the OLB rushing the passer (DE). When he drops into coverage, he then is refered to a OLB. Not once during the AZ game did I see Ware off the line in a natural OLB position. He was either on the line or slightly off the line ready to drop in coverage as a 3-4 OLB. Although once again, BP never said we used the 4-3 defense, he simly stated that Ware can play the DE or OLB in a 4 man front.

[smashmouth]

I could see BP using a 3-4 and on pre-snap lining up both olb'rs on the line. Then in pre-snap I could see them adjust the formation and Ware putting his hand down on the ground and the other olb backing up in to a 4 3 alignment.
This way, we are so versatile you don't know how we're coming or where we're coming from. In a blink of an eye, we could go from a 4-3 formation straight into a 3-4 alignment simply because of Ware and his ability to put a hand down, or back into coverage.
Ware is the single most important part of this entire thing. (PRAY HE STAYS HEALTHY)

[blindzebra]

To correct you BZ, BP never Stated the 4-3 in todays PC, he always refers to the 4 man front. Whether people like it or understand it, every 3-4 team use a 4 man front. One OLB rushes the passer along with the 3 DL, the other drops into coverage. When Ware drops into a down stance, it just makes it more obvious that he is the OLB rushing the passer (DE). When he drops into coverage, he then is refered to a OLB. Not once during the AZ game did I see Ware off the line in a natural OLB position. He was either on the line or slightly off the line ready to drop in coverage as a 3-4 OLB. Although once again, BP never said we used the 4-3 defense, he simly stated that Ware can play the DE or OLB in a 4 man front.

Wrong, completely wrong.

He was at OLB in a 4-3 in short yardage in the AZ game.

Parcells said in his PC, when asked about Ware playing OLB IN THE 4-3, that yes Ware WILL PLAY SOME OLB IN THE 4-3.

Next time you "correct" someone, I suggest you know what you are talking about.:rolleyes:

[Banned_n_austin]

Wrong, completely wrong.

He was at OLB in a 4-3 in short yardage in the AZ game.

Parcells said in his PC, when asked about Ware playing OLB IN THE 4-3, that yes Ware WILL PLAY SOME OLB IN THE 4-3.

Next time you "correct" someone, I suggest you know what you are talking about.:rolleyes:

They're going to line him up all over the place it looks like ... I saw him play some DE last game too ... wasn't pretty, but he was double teamed a lot ...

Should be interesting to see if they can pull off with this player what they think they can ...

[50cent]

Wrong, completely wrong.

He was at OLB in a 4-3 in short yardage in the AZ game.

Parcells said in his PC, when asked about Ware playing OLB IN THE 4-3, that yes Ware WILL PLAY SOME OLB IN THE 4-3.

Next time you "correct" someone, I suggest you know what you are talking about.:rolleyes:Spags ask BP specifically asked him about the 4 man front, not 4-3. There is a difference. He then goes on to say in an undershift he will play the DE and in a overshift he will play the OLB. He never mentions the 4-3, just 4 man front. Even more, if you listened to his PC the other day, his 4 man fronts are played with the 3-4 principle. Correct yourself again and go back and listen to the PC. Around the 9:45 mark it. I just thought you should know this!

[50cent]

I could see BP using a 3-4 and on pre-snap lining up both olb'rs on the line. Then in pre-snap I could see them adjust the formation and Ware putting his hand down on the ground and the other olb backing up in to a 4 3 alignment.
This way, we are so versatile you don't know how we're coming or where we're coming from. In a blink of an eye, we could go from a 4-3 formation straight into a 3-4 alignment simply because of Ware and his ability to put a hand down, or back into coverage.
Ware is the single most important part of this entire thing. (PRAY HE STAYS HEALTHY)
This is the exact reason BP stated that he likes 3-4, because at no time will the offense know which OLB will pass rush. So in turn, Ware is always a DE/OLB. I don't know why people don't get this concept.

[blindzebra]

Spags ask BP specifically asked him about the 4 man front, not 4-3. There is a difference. He then goes on to say in an undershift he will play the DE and in a overshift he will play the OLB. He never mentions the 4-3, just 4 man front. Even more, if you listened to his PC the other day, his 4 man fronts are played with the 3-4 principle. Correct yourself again and go back and listen to the PC. Around the 9:45 mark it. I just thought you should know this!

I did miss hear it, but Mick said 4 man front in the base not nickel, that is a big difference. So if we have 4 man on the DL and Ware is one of 3 LBs what is it?

And this does not change the fact that Ware did play OLB when we were in the 4-3 short yardage against AZ. Look at the line up on 4th in 1 in the first quarter.;)

[Billy Bullocks]

I think we will end up playing in the 4-3 for the most part this year...

ya, like I said. 50 50. Plus our nickel packages. 3-4 will be out there 25-35%

[big dog cowboy]

I've been saying all off season we go to San Deigo and come out in a 4-3.

[The30YardSlant]

Cant be long until Nors stumbles upon this and all Hell breaks loose

[big dog cowboy]

Cant be long until Nors stumbles upon this and all Hell breaks loose
Like that has never happened before. :lmao2:

[50cent]

I did miss hear it, but Mick said 4 man front in the base not nickel, that is a big difference. So if we have 4 man on the DL and Ware is one of 3 LBs what is it?

And this does not change the fact that Ware did play OLB when we were in the 4-3 short yardage against AZ. Look at the line up on 4th in 1 in the first quarter.;)
Look, I'm not trying to argue with. What I'm trying to say is even in a base defense with 4 down lineman, if Singleton rushes from the weakside, Ware is automatically the OLB. He then has to drop into coverage. It just a formation to confuse the offense. BP has already stated that the 4 man front shouldn't be considered the 4-3, because the use 3-4 techniques.

[lane]

I could see BP using a 3-4 and on pre-snap lining up both olb'rs on the line. Then in pre-snap I could see them adjust the formation and Ware putting his hand down on the ground and the other olb backing up in to a 4 3 alignment.
This way, we are so versatile you don't know how we're coming or where we're coming from. In a blink of an eye, we could go from a 4-3 formation straight into a 3-4 alignment simply because of Ware and his ability to put a hand down, or back into coverage.
Ware is the single most important part of this entire thing. (PRAY HE STAYS HEALTHY)

nice sig.

[vicjagger]

As for you thinking we didn't have an OLB with high sack totals because we didn't have one who could rush the passer

Apparently, neither does any other NFL team. Here's the top 30 sack-artists from 2004 regular season. How many 4-3 OLBs do you see?

Rank Player Team Sacks Tackles
1 Dwight Freeney IND 16 34
2 Bertrand Berry ARI 14.5 49
3 Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila GB 13.5 47
4 Patrick Kerney ATL 13 66
5 Simeon Rice TB 12 40
6 Kevin Williams MIN 12 70
7 James Hall DET 11.5 48
8 Rod Coleman ATL 11.5 40
9 Shaun Ellis NYJ 11 57
10 Lance Johnstone MIN 11 31
11 Darren Howard NO 11 46
12 Julius Peppers CAR 11 64
13 Robert Mathis IND 10.5 36
14 Terrell Suggs BAL 10.5 60
15 Reggie Hayward DEN 10.5 43
16 Charles Grant NO 10.5 78
17 Steve Foley SD 10 64
18 Jason Taylor MIA 9.5 67
19 Willie McGinest NE 9.5 51
20 John Abraham NYJ 9.5 48
21 Jared Allen KC 9 31
22 Greg Ellis DAL 9 59
23 Chike Okeafor SEA 8.5 53
24 Bryce Fisher STL 8.5 48
25 Aaron Schobel BUF 8 73
26 Adalius Thomas BAL 8 72
27 Justin Smith CIN 8 70
28 Ebenezer Ekuban CLE 8 37
29 Aaron Smith PIT 8 43
30 Greg Spires TB 8 60

[blindzebra]

Apparently, neither does any other NFL team. Here's the top 30 sack-artists from 2004 regular season. How many 4-3 OLBs do you see?

Rank Player Team Sacks Tackles
1 Dwight Freeney IND 16 34
2 Bertrand Berry ARI 14.5 49
3 Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila GB 13.5 47
4 Patrick Kerney ATL 13 66
5 Simeon Rice TB 12 40
6 Kevin Williams MIN 12 70
7 James Hall DET 11.5 48
8 Rod Coleman ATL 11.5 40
9 Shaun Ellis NYJ 11 57
10 Lance Johnstone MIN 11 31
11 Darren Howard NO 11 46
12 Julius Peppers CAR 11 64
13 Robert Mathis IND 10.5 36
14 Terrell Suggs BAL 10.5 60
15 Reggie Hayward DEN 10.5 43
16 Charles Grant NO 10.5 78
17 Steve Foley SD 10 64
18 Jason Taylor MIA 9.5 67
19 Willie McGinest NE 9.5 51
20 John Abraham NYJ 9.5 48
21 Jared Allen KC 9 31
22 Greg Ellis DAL 9 59
23 Chike Okeafor SEA 8.5 53
24 Bryce Fisher STL 8.5 48
25 Aaron Schobel BUF 8 73
26 Adalius Thomas BAL 8 72
27 Justin Smith CIN 8 70
28 Ebenezer Ekuban CLE 8 37
29 Aaron Smith PIT 8 43
30 Greg Spires TB 8 60

And just where was anyone saying playing him exclusively at OLB in a 4-3?

A lot of research for absolutely no reason.;)

[Big Country]

Well we're going to be using a 4-2-5 a lot and a 4-1-6 some.

We're using a 4... 2... 5... isn't that a ... wait a minute... 1 2 3.. recount... mmmph... 5 plus 6... I mean 4 with a 1 and a 2 and a... just a second let me get my shoe off... one two ... oh !@#$#$% never mind...

LET's JUST PLAY ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:bang2: