Our Offense...

[Rack Bauer]

We had 351 yards of offense. Averaging 5.4 yards per play.

We were sacked ZERO times.

We owned the time of possession by more the 4 MINUTES.

We were 41% on third downs (most of that cuz of the 3rd and long plays, and the Crayton dropped pass).

We had a 13 point lead after Cortez last FG with 6:27 to play in the game.

With less then 5 minutes to go we had a 13 point lead and had the Skins at 4th and 15.

Now tell me, who lost the game? When you have a team in a 4th and 15 situation with less then 5 minutes to play and you're winning by 13 points (I don't care if it's 13-0 or 55-42) then you SHOULD win the game.

The defense BLEW IT. PERIOD.

[windward]

The offense played well enought o win. Not great, mind you, but well enough I am very disappointed with our D right now. Not so much the O. We need to execute better on O that's all.

[SupermanXx]

good post, and I agree

however, while the defense blew the lead, the offense COULD have (and you know this) done more before the 5 minute mark in the 4th period to put the game out of reach

[Rack Bauer]

good post, and I agree

however, while the defense blew the lead, the offense COULD have (and you know this) done more before the 5 minute mark in the 4th period to put the game out of reach


I agree. They "Could" have. But at the 5 minute mark it doesn't matter. We had a 13 point lead, but blew it. Our O held a 4 minute advantage in T.O.P. so it's not like our D was just winded. If they were, they aren't working hard enough or Zimmer needs to rotate more, but really, I thought the rotation was fine. I just think Zimmer or our DL coach is doing a sorry job of coachign our pass rush. I think they need to be less "Technical" and be more "Emotional". Pass rushing is all about emotion (or mostly anyway). You have to want to kick the guy's a** in front of you and kill the QB. YOu have to want it like an ethiopian wants a bowl of rice. You have to have that "hunger". I don't see that in our DL. I just don't. And I KNOW we have the physical ability to rush the passer better so it's either a matter of the coaches not letting them loose, or the DL has no heart.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

s much as the D blew it there no excue IMO for us not to get a 1st at 2:20 with a 2nd and 4. Where was Julius? Key wouldnt of dropped that pass that Crayton did, just a lesson, hes raw but skilled. And Glenn is a vet and should of known better on his 3 yard route.

And that wasted 2nd down. Taake your time and call a goodp lay, you dont need to rush it and execute ...God knows what that was.
And Billy Cundiff....well see you soon

[SupermanXx]

You have to want to kick the guy's a** in front of you and kill the QB.

I swear I read that as "lick" and not "kick" hahaha

[smashmouth]

I blame the D for giving up 14 points with 5 minutes to go, but how many points did we score with 5 minutes to go?

And we had the ball 2 times after they scored 14 points and did jack!

[Rack Bauer]

s much as the D blew it there no excue IMO for us not to get a 1st at 2:20 with a 2nd and 4. Where was Julius? Key wouldnt of dropped that pass that Crayton did, just a lesson, hes raw but skilled. And Glenn is a vet and should of known better on his 3 yard route.

And that wasted 2nd down. Taake your time and call a goodp lay, you dont need to rush it and execute ...God knows what that was.
And Billy Cundiff....well see you soon


Yeah I agree with that part. People are complaining about us being too conservative (which is crap), but I would of waited for the 2 minute warning, then I would or ran the ball again on 2nd down. We had plenty of time and their DL was starting to wear down. We didn't HAVE to pass in that situation.

[smashmouth]

s much as the D blew it there no excue IMO for us not to get a 1st at 2:20 with a 2nd and 4. Where was Julius? Key wouldnt of dropped that pass that Crayton did, just a lesson, hes raw but skilled. And Glenn is a vet and should of known better on his 3 yard route.

And that wasted 2nd down. Taake your time and call a goodp lay, you dont need to rush it and execute ...God knows what that was.
And Billy Cundiff....well see you soonTo me it seemed like Drew was seeing ghosts all night long. When they would blitz, he would be so anxious to throw the ball thinking the blitz was getting to him, instead of waiting just a tad bid (not too long) but just a tad bit longer for a certain play to develope.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Did anyone get that feeling Julius would pull soem Seattle magic when he got that first carry? I cant help but think he would of made some noise

We had all the momentum, long KR, nice run, It was all lookiing good...and then...Ugghh Im going to sleep

[PacoReloaded]

We had 351 yards of offense. Averaging 5.4 yards per play.

We were sacked ZERO times.

We owned the time of possession by more the 4 MINUTES.

We were 41% on third downs (most of that cuz of the 3rd and long plays, and the Crayton dropped pass).

We had a 13 point lead after Cortez last FG with 6:27 to play in the game.

With less then 5 minutes to go we had a 13 point lead and had the Skins at 4th and 15.

Now tell me, who lost the game? When you have a team in a 4th and 15 situation with less then 5 minutes to play and you're winning by 13 points (I don't care if it's 13-0 or 55-42) then you SHOULD win the game.

The defense BLEW IT. PERIOD.
But yet despite all that they couldn't pick up a first down when we needed it most.

[smashmouth]

How about 3 points in the first half. That's sweet!

[Rack Bauer]

But yet despite all that they couldn't pick up a first down when we needed it most.



Yes, and you can blame Patrick Crayton for that, not the playcalling.


Unless playcalling somehow causes WRs to drop passes.


The defense caved. Plain and simple.

[smashmouth]

The offense sucked. Plain and simple.
If Washington had the brains to figure out that Glenn could be beaten on 3 wr sets from the 1st quarter, it would have been a blow out by the deadskins.

[PacoReloaded]

Yes, and you can blame Patrick Crayton for that, not the playcalling.


Unless playcalling somehow causes WRs to drop passes.


The defense caved. Plain and simple.
Oh, so calling a 4th and 4 play 2 yards short was the players fault?

Hmm...

[blindzebra]

Yes, and you can blame Patrick Crayton for that, not the playcalling.


Unless playcalling somehow causes WRs to drop passes.




No getting hung out by a lobbed pass and then blasted by a 225 pound safety will.

It was not a drop, it was a weak throw and a great play by Taylor.

[Rack Bauer]

Oh, so calling a 4th and 4 play 2 yards short was the players fault?

Hmm...



Who said they called the play to be 2 yards short? Did you see Bledsoe looking at his other options? Cuz he did. They weren't open. He threw it to the only guy that was open but he didn't get the first down.

Again, we had the first down but Crayton dropped the ball. Personally, I would ran the ball on second down in that situation. We had 2 timeouts and plenty of time (2 minutes). Their DL seemed to be tiring at that point. We could of got them with 2 more runs, then a play action pass. The playcalling certainly wasn't "Conservative".

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Actually Witten was open down the middle

[smashmouth]

In racks world, the offense played like the Philadelphia offense did Sunday.

[blindzebra]

Actually Witten was open down the middle

His man tripped and fell, Witten has a TD if Bledsoe makes the correct read.

[Rack Bauer]

Actually Witten was open down the middle


Ok, but do you understand the QB's job?


The QB's job isn't to "throw it to the open guy". Every pass play has a progression. You look for your primary WR, if he's covered you move to your secondary WR, ect... And you have to throw it the the FIRST open guy you see before you get sacked. It's easy for us to sit back and say "Hey, he was open" But we don't know where that player is in the progression and we don't have to worry about getting rid of the ball on time. Even if Drew missed him, that's BOUND to happen EVERY game. No QBs always finds the open reciever every play.

[Rack Bauer]

In racks world, the offense played like the Philadelphia offense did Sunday.


Quit your spin doctoring. I never said the offense played great. I merely said the defense blew it at the end. And I'm right cuz they did.

[smashmouth]

Ok, but do you understand the QB's job?


The QB's job isn't to "throw it to the open guy". Every pass play has a progression. You look for your primary WR, if he's covered you move to your secondary WR, ect... And you have to throw it the the FIRST open guy you see before you get sacked. It's easy for us to sit back and say "Hey, he was open" But we don't know where that player is in the progression and we don't have to worry about getting rid of the ball on time. Even if Drew missed him, that's BOUND to happen EVERY game. No QBs always finds the open reciever every play.The QB's job is to help win football games, and help guide the team into a score.
I don't care how he has to do it, that's his job. But mr flag football coach over here, thinks that an offense doesn't have to attack a defense, when they are considered good.

I'll bet Carolina is glad you're not their coach, or they would have lost. They dictated the game on offense and defense, they didn't care that they were playing the freaking patriots.

[lyrclcipha12]

not to mention the fact our offense accomplished all of that against a tough redskins D. furthermore, our defense collapsed and gave up 109 passing yards in two plays against a weak at best redskins offense with possibly the worst passing game in football.

[PacoReloaded]

Who said they called the play to be 2 yards short? Did you see Bledsoe looking at his other options? Cuz he did. They weren't open. He threw it to the only guy that was open but he didn't get the first down.

Again, we had the first down but Crayton dropped the ball. Personally, I would ran the ball on second down in that situation. We had 2 timeouts and plenty of time (2 minutes). Their DL seemed to be tiring at that point. We could of got them with 2 more runs, then a play action pass. The playcalling certainly wasn't "Conservative".So how many excuses are we going to make tonight Rack?

[AdamJT13]

No getting hung out by a lobbed pass and then blasted by a 225 pound safety will.

It was not a drop, it was a weak throw and a great play by Taylor.

Bledsoe had to throw it like that to get it over Springs, who was leaping up right in front of him on a blitz. If he had thrown a bullet, Springs probably would have knocked it down.

[Rack Bauer]

The QB's job is to help win football games

Wow, is that technical talk there, "Coach"?

If you really are a "Coach" then you should know that a QB doesn't "Win" games. Football is a TEAM sport. No ONE MAN wins the game. The QB doesn't block for himself and throw the ball to himself.

So how many excuses are we going to make tonight Rack?

What excuses have I made? The only thing I've done is counter argue the people making excuses for our defense.


I'll bet Carolina is glad you're not their coach, or they would have lost. They dictated the game on offense and defense, they didn't care that they were playing the freaking patriots.


First of all, comparing us to the Panthers is plain STUPID. We aren't as good as them. Period.

Also, did you notice their D held up in the 4th quarter? Did you notice they were actually getting to Brady with their front 4?

Left that part out, huh?


I don't care how he has to do it, that's his job.


Ignorance. Plain ignorance.

"Hey, QB, go win the game". :rolleyes:


QBs get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses. Football is the ULTIMATE team sport. A "Coach" should know that.

[smashmouth]

So how many excuses are we going to make tonight Rack?Rack might as well be a Washington Redskins fan. He's clueless like they are.

Gibbs out coached Parcells in the 4th quarter period.

Gibbs became aggressive and Parcells bent over and took it. Gibbs finally saw a weakness in the defense and took advantage of it.

Parcells scored 3 points in the first half and was content with it. Gibbs by default, started being aggressive. But Parcells coached like Rack thinks, let's just play it safe.

[Rack Bauer]

Bledsoe had to throw it like that to get it over Springs, who was leaping up right in front of him on a blitz. If he had thrown a bullet, Springs probably would have knocked it down.


Leave the facts out of this, Adam. It's all Drew's fault that Crayton dropped the ball. Oh, but the poor baby got hit. Football players aren't supposed to get hit in the NFL! lol

By the way, BZ, don't bother replying to my posts, you've been on my ignore list for months. Only reason I know you replied to me is cuz Adam quoted you.

Thank you.

[Rack Bauer]

Rack might as well be a Washington Redskins fan. He's clueless like they are.

Gibbs out coached Parcells in the 4th quarter period.

Gibbs became aggressive and Parcells bent over and took it. Gibbs finally saw a weakness in the defense and took advantage of it.

Parcells scored 3 points in the first half and was content with it. Gibbs by default, started being aggressive. But Parcells coached like Rack thinks, let's just play it safe.


If you know a THING about football you'd know that Gibbs PREFERS to play conservative. Gibbs didn't "Become" aggressive. He was down 13 points with 4 minutes to go... he HAD to be aggressive. He had NO CHOICE, Genius. Our Defense should of known they Skins had to start heaving them up and should of been ready for it.

[blindzebra]

Leave the facts out of this, Adam. It's all Drew's fault that Crayton dropped the ball. Oh, but the poor baby got hit. Football players aren't supposed to get hit in the NFL! lol

By the way, BZ, don't bother replying to my posts, you've been on my ignore list for months. Only reason I know you replied to me is cuz Adam quoted you.

Thank you.

I'll reply to whomever I please.:jerk:

[Rack Bauer]

But Parcells coached like Rack thinks, let's just play it safe.


Yeah... you just gave me a compliment and don't even know it. Parcells, the future Hall of Fame coach, coaches like I think? THANKS!

He SURE AS HELL doesn't coach like you think.

Parcells: Hey, Drew, go win the game.

LMFAO!!!

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Ok, but do you understand the QB's job?


The QB's job isn't to "throw it to the open guy". Every pass play has a progression. You look for your primary WR, if he's covered you move to your secondary WR, ect... And you have to throw it the the FIRST open guy you see before you get sacked. It's easy for us to sit back and say "Hey, he was open" But we don't know where that player is in the progression and we don't have to worry about getting rid of the ball on time. Even if Drew missed him, that's BOUND to happen EVERY game. No QBs always finds the open reciever every play.

Tom Brady would of made that throw.

Bledsoe is playing better than we all thought. No picks, 120+ rating, and only 4 sacks in 2 games. But he and Payton blew it on that drive IMO.

3 plays to get 4 yards.

When we had a 5 yard per play average all game

[Rack Bauer]

This message is hidden because blindzebra is on your ignore list.


I see nothing. Then again, I saw nothing when you weren't on ignore anyway. Nothing but crap, that is.

[Rack Bauer]

Tom Brady would of made that throw.

Bledsoe is playing better than we all thought. No picks, 120+ rating, and only 4 sacks in 2 games. But he and Payton blew it on that drive IMO.

3 plays to get 4 yards.

When we had a 5 yard per play average all game


Brady would of made that throw? Brady wouldn't of FORCED the pass. He's too smart a QB to do that. And even the "Great" Brady doesn't always find the open man.

[blindzebra]

Rack might as well be a Washington Redskins fan. He's clueless like they are.

Gibbs out coached Parcells in the 4th quarter period.

Gibbs became aggressive and Parcells bent over and took it. Gibbs finally saw a weakness in the defense and took advantage of it.

Parcells scored 3 points in the first half and was content with it. Gibbs by default, started being aggressive. But Parcells coached like Rack thinks, let's just play it safe.

Dude, he's a brick wall in every respect.

You are wasting your time, trying to convence him he's wrong. All that will happen is you will get insulted and he'll put you on ignore.

That is what he does when he loses a debate.;)

[smashmouth]

Brady would of made that throw? Brady wouldn't of FORCED the pass. He's too smart a QB to do that. And even the "Great" Brady doesn't always find the open man.They score more than 13 points though. In your mindless world, 13 points should beat anyone.

[blindzebra]

I see nothing. Then again, I saw nothing when you weren't on ignore anyway. Nothing but crap, that is.

Clever, you must be really something at recess.:D

[smashmouth]

Dude, he's a brick wall in every respect.

You are wasting your time, trying to convence him he's wrong. All that will happen is you will get insulted and he'll put you on ignore.

That is what he does when he loses a debate.;)Yeah, dude insulted me for no reason.

If he don't agree, then don't. But don't curse me out and think i'm going to take it. I'm the coolest dude around if you all knew me. And I love my football.
And I know that RW is not a great cover guy, but they forget about the play where he stopped a touchdown twice earlier.

They dont' talk about those plays. Gibbs took a chance on 4th down, and he knew we would be more interested in stopping the 1st down than stopping the touchdown.

He looked over and knew that Moss could beat Glenn deep, as long as he could distract RW. And i'm telling rack that if our offense had done it's job, there would not have been enough time to catch up.

[Rack Bauer]

They score more than 13 points though. In your mindless world, 13 points should beat anyone.

Again, since you seem to lack the ability to comprehend basic concepts, at the 5 minute mark in a game, the amount scored isn't as important as how big the lead is. A 13 point lead is a 13 point lead. We gave it up.

There's gonna be games where our offense scores a lot of points, and will HAVE to score a lot of points to bail out our defense. And there will be games where our offense only scores 13 points, but has a 13 point lead with 5 minutes remaining and it will be up to the DEFENSE to win the game.

Was that easy enough for you to understand?

[Rack Bauer]

and he'll put you on ignore.

That is what he does when he loses a debate.


I only put babbling morons that spin doctor your every post on ignore. I have you on ignore cuz YOU are the one that's "never wrong" and when YOU lose an argument you resort to spin doctoring. What smashmouth has done is a grain of dirt compared to the MOUNTAINS of spin doctoring you do.


Now, go ahead and reply to the post, Genius.

[DWAREZ]

Actually Witten was open down the middle

I saw that...Witten's coverage fell down and he was wide open but Drew threw it to him instead...he easily had the first and more..it made me sick!!

[DWAREZ]

Yeah, dude insulted me for no reason.

If he don't agree, then don't. But don't curse me out and think i'm going to take it. I'm the coolest dude around if you all knew me. And I love my football.
And I know that RW is not a great cover guy, but they forget about the play where he stopped a touchdown twice earlier.

They dont' talk about those plays. Gibbs took a chance on 4th down, and he knew we would be more interested in stopping the 1st down than stopping the touchdown.

He looked over and knew that Moss could beat Glenn deep, as long as he could distract RW. And i'm telling rack that if our offense had done it's job, there would not have been enough time to catch up.

Yeah and you insulted me for no reason..stop being a hypocrite

[smashmouth]

Again, since you seem to lack the ability to comprehend basic concepts, at the 5 minute mark in a game, the amount scored isn't as important as how big the lead is. A 13 point lead is a 13 point lead. We gave it up.

There's gonna be games where our offense scores a lot of points, and will HAVE to score a lot of points to bail out our defense. And there will be games where our offense only scores 13 points, but has a 13 point lead with 5 minutes remaining and it will be up to the DEFENSE to win the game.

Was that easy enough for you to understand?Let me put it this way mrs rack.

Since you have no clue about football other than Madden 2006, and your sorry league in loredo sorry texas, you don't understand what coaching mistakes are.

Teams make come backs all the time in this league, even us. We all know this (girlfriend)

If a game is lost in the end, then it's because of something you didn't do. And the Cowboys scored 3 freaking points in the first half. 3, let me say it again. 3 (the age of your brain)

And we had opportunities to score much more but we sat on the ball most of the 1st half. Neither team wanted to mess up, so Gibbs was playing stupid too.

Gibbs could have put up 30 on us had he known what he found out late in the game. Gibbs was playing like a Parcells, and that's why neither of these guys might not be able to get it done in the 2000's. They let their old school tacktics get in the way.

[DWAREZ]

His man tripped and fell, Witten has a TD if Bledsoe makes the correct read.

I do agree with that he had the first plus more..Drew threw it too soon to the wrong guy..It made me sick

[blindzebra]

I only put babbling morons that spin doctor your every post on ignore. I have you on ignore cuz YOU are the one that's "never wrong" and when YOU lose an argument you resort to spin doctoring. What smashmouth has done is a grain of dirt compared to the MOUNTAINS of spin doctoring you do.


Now, go ahead and reply to the post, Genius.

I have never seen so much rage in my life. Zero to ballistic in nothing flat. They have professionals that can help you with that.;)

[MarionBarberThe4th]

I saw that...Witten's coverage fell down and he was wide open but Drew threw it to him instead...he easily had the first and more..it made me sick!!

I was thinking TD.
Knowing Witten, he would of sat at the 1 yard line, enabling us to kill some clock.

Or would that be a terrible idea.

Yea, it would, Cortez is garbage, but Im sure JJ could of punched it in.

Moot now, we lose, they win, I cry, hole in my wall

[Rack Bauer]

Since you have no clue about football other than Madden 2006, and your sorry league in loredo sorry texas, you don't understand what coaching mistakes are.


So us giving up a 13 point lead with 4 minutes to go had nothing to do with the defense?


If a game is lost in the end, then it's because of something you didn't do.

Like what? Stop the other team from scorign a TD on 4th and 15? Maybe?

Gibbs could have put up 30 on us had he known what he found out late in the game.


Gibbs didn't "Find" anything out. He was FORCED to throw deep cuz they were losing by 13 freakin' points with 4 minutes to go. COMMON SENSE!

He sure as hell wasn't gonna dink and dunk with 4 minutes left, down by 13 points.

They went for it all cuz they HAD to. He got one by Roy so tried the same play again, and got by Roy AGAIN. That is Roy's FAULT. Not the offense. I'm not claiming the offense played great vs the Skins. But they didn't lose the game at the end. The defense did.

[smashmouth]

I have never seen so much rage in my life. Zero to ballistic in nothing flat. They have professionals that can help you with that.;)I think this guy is borderline (mental health) he needs a psychologist.

I see what this fool is all about. I know cats like that, he ain't nothin but know it all, that doesn't know sh**.

He's upset because I won't bow down to his nerdy comments about the defense.

My point was all alone, and just because I have RW on my profile, doesn't mean I wont turn against him. If you suck, I'll tell you you suck.

But if it's someone else who cost us the game, I will point it out. I love BP, and Bledsoe, but this game was not lost by our defense. Our offense had plenty of time in the 1st quarter to put up points. It even had time to go freaking 15 yards to put us in field goal position , but it couldn't.

[smashmouth]

Gibbs didn't "Find" anything out. He was FORCED to throw deep cuz they were losing by 13 freakin' points with 4 minutes to go. COMMON SENSE!

He sure as hell wasn't gonna dink and dunk with 4 minutes left, down by 13 points.

They went for it all cuz they HAD to. He got one by Roy so tried the same play again, and got by Roy AGAIN. That is Roy's FAULT. Not the offense. I'm not claiming the offense played great vs the Skins. But they didn't lose the game at the end. The defense did.
You certainly wouldn't of figured it out. I figured it out along time ago. He went deep tons of times and it failed. But when he went deep against Glenn, it worked. Common sense mrs. Rack.

Why didn't it work earlier, when they went deep several? HUH?

[Rack Bauer]

I need a psychiatrist? Did you actually READ the PM you just sent me, Coward?

[smashmouth]

I need a psychiatrist? Did you actually READ the PM you just sent me, Coward?I'm smart enough to not go to jail again. :)

[Rack Bauer]

What's wrong, Big Bubba too rough on you?

So you say you'll be at my house on friday, then you get scared and want me to go to you? You're the one that asked for MY address, Sally. Why did you change your mind?

And quit sending me racist PMs.

[blindzebra]

I think this guy is borderline (mental health) he needs a psychologist.

I see what this fool is all about. I know cats like that, he ain't nothin but know it all, that doesn't know sh**.

He's upset because I won't bow down to his nerdy comments about the defense.

My point was all alone, and just because I have RW on my profile, doesn't mean I wont turn against him. If you suck, I'll tell you you suck.

But if it's someone else who cost us the game, I will point it out. I love BP, and Bledsoe, but this game was not lost by our defense. Our offense had plenty of time in the 1st quarter to put up points. It even had time to go freaking 15 yards to put us in field goal position , but it couldn't.


This game had it all:

Questionable calls and no-calls, both impacted the final score.

Bad game management we blow a timeout to run a give up play to kick a FG and then waste a play before the 2 minute warning by hurrying.

Not having Jones in the game when the score is 0-0 and we get the ball on their 31.

The bone-headed 5 wide screen to Price that killed our momentum on the first drive.

The missed FG.

Settling for the FG up 10-0.

Calling slow developing sweeps against a fast aggressive defense.

Calling several short passes, when it is painfully obvious that Bledsoe does not throw the flat pass well.

Getting caught without a spy on Brunell on the 3rd and 27.

Staying with the nickel and not going with 6 DBs late, what would a centerfielder have done on the post?

You should never blow a 13 point lead, but whenever you miss FGs and settle for FGs, you increase the chances of a play or two biting you in the arse.

[Cowchips]

To me it seemed like Drew was seeing ghosts all night long. When they would blitz, he would be so anxious to throw the ball thinking the blitz was getting to him, instead of waiting just a tad bid (not too long) but just a tad bit longer for a certain play to develope.

Blaming Drew for getting rid of the ball..I think I've heard it all :)

He actually would have led the team to over 20 points when you take away the missed field goal and the plays called back on penalties. The offensive struggles can be blamed on 2 things..a crappy running game and penalties. Drew played very well against a very tough defense. A 90 passer rating with no run support and no mistakes ain't bad!!

[Sarge]

What's wrong, Big Bubba too rough on you?

So you say you'll be at my house on friday, then you get scared and want me to go to you? You're the one that asked for MY address, Sally. Why did you change your mind?

And quit sending me racist PMs.

What is this, Romper Room?

[MichaelWinicki]

What is this, Romper Room?

You know Sarge I've seen games very similar to last nights quite often over the last 3 years in Buffalo...