Offensive Line Breakdown

[junk]

Tackles:
Flozell Adams (6-7, 357) – Adams finally capitalized on his immense potential last year and put together a Pro Bowl season. Adams, whose naysayers had criticized his determination in years past, responded well after signing a high dollar contract with the Cowboys. Rather than rest on his laurels after signing the big deal, Adams went out and had the best year of his career. Adams will be the cornerstone of the offensive line and improvement from last year should vault him into the upper echelon of tackes in the NFL.

Kurt Vollers (6-7, 317) – Vollers played in 13 games and started 8 splitting time with Torrin Tucker at right tackle last year. His performance prompted Dallas to draft Jacob Rogers from USC with their second round pick. Although Vollers performed admirably, he is probably best suited to a reserve position. In fact, Dallas has moved him to left tackle this offseason to back up Flozell Adams. Vollers provides good depth and could slide over to right tackle if needed.

Torrin Tucker (6-6, 328) – Tucker started one game and played in seven splitting time with Kurt Vollers at right tackle. This after being released by the Cowboys, re-signed to the practice squad and eventually resigned to the active roster after the season began. Tucker was recently rewarded with a two year contract extension, so there must be something that the Cowboys see in him. Tucker will battle with Jacob Rogers at right tackle this year. His experience will give him the leg up as Rogers must adjust with the move from the left to right side and the overall speed of the NFL game.

Jacob Rogers (6-5, 305) – Rogers was one of the Cowboys second round draft choices out of USC. Rogers manned the left tackle position for the co-national champion USC Trojans. In the NFL, Rogers will attempt to make the switch from the left side to the right side where he will battle Torrin Tucker for the starting job. Don’t be surprised to the Cowboys platoon Tucker and Rogers early in the season as they try to assess each player’s abilities and get them much needed experience.

Javier Collins (6-6, 314) – Collins will also be in the mix at right tackle. Collins was originally an undrafted free defensive lineman who was converted to offensive line early in his career. Collins will have to take advantage of his potential and show something this year to retain a roster spot.

Dave Volk (6-5, 300) – Volk spent last season on the Cowboys practice squad. He was signed to the active roster after the season and was sent to NFL Europe where he got some reps playing for the Amsterdam Admirals. Volk is a long shot to make the active roster.

Darrick Sanders (6-4, 312) – Sanders was signed as an undrafted free agent by the Cowboys. Sanders will be hard pressed to make the team, but with a good training camp performance could land on the practice squad.

Guards:
Larry Allen (6-3, 335) – At one time, Allen was the most devastating blocker in the game. Allen has already cemented his place in history as one of the best guards of all time and should be a Hall of Fame shoo-in. However, injuries, age and poor conditioning have decimated Allen’s skills. After a much publicized season and offseason of disagreement with coach Bill Parcells, Allen has shown up to camp in what appears to be much better shape. Allen may never be the player he once was, but even a shell of the former Larry Allen is better than most guards in the NFL. The health and performance of Larry Allen will go a long way in determining the overall success of the Dallas Cowboys offensive line this year.

Andre Gurode (6-4, 326) – Gurode, originally a second round pick out of Colorado, is a player who has yet to fulfill his vast potential. Gurode has seemed to have problems with the mental aspects of the game and his mental breakdowns last season drew the ire of Parcells. Competition has been brought in this year and Gurode will feel the pressure in the form of Stephen Peterman, a third round pick from co-national champion LSU. How Gurode responds to the competition and his ability to cut down on costly mental errors will determine if he retains his starting position or finds his way onto the bench.

Stephen Peterman (6-3, 312) – Peterman was brought in to compete with Andre Gurode for the starting RG position and provide quality depth along the OL. Peterman, a former TE, is known for his nasty disposition on the football field. Generally described as a mauler at the point of attack, Peterman has also been said to have problems in space.

Matt Lehr (6-2, 292) – Lehr actually actually started all 16 games last year and spent the bulk of his time at center. However, this offseason the Cowboys have moved him to the guard position full time. Lehr is a bit undersized and tends to get overwhelmed by bigger defensive tackles. Lehr does bring a great work ethic and attitude to the offensive line and his versatility at playing all three interior line positions makes him a valuable reserve.

DeMingo Graham (6-3, 310) – Graham was brought in as a street free agent after the season. He last started 11 games for the Houston Texans in 2002. Graham did get a signing bonus for his one year contract with the Cowboys although it was quite minimal. Graham’s roster spot hinges solely on how well he plays in training camp.

Tango McCauley (6-4, 307) – McCauley, a former player in the CFL, is a big bodied prospect at guard. Parcells has mentioned McCauley when speaking of developing young players who were not high round draft choices. McCauley could make the roster with an exceptional training camp, but is more likely bound for the practice squad.

Thomas Herrion (6-3, 334) – Herrion was signed as an undrafted free agent after the team’s mini camps. Herrion, out of the University of Utah, was brought in as an extra body during the mini camps, but made enough of an impression on the coaching staff that he earned a temporary roster spot. Although unlikely he will make the final roster, Herrion could find his way to the practice squad.

Centers:
Al Johnson (6-5, 303) – Johnson, drafted out of Wisconsin in the second round of the 2003 draft, was already penciled in as the starting center last year in training camp before injuring his knee and undergoing the controversial microfracture surgery. By all accounts, Johnson has recovered completely from the injury and resulting surgery and will once again be in the running for the starting center position. Coach Parcells has had nothing but good things to say about Johnson as he has displayed a tremendous work ethic in rehabbing his injury. Look for Johnson to be the starting center for the Cowboys on opening day.

Gennaro DiNapoli (6-3, 287) – DiNapoli played in seven games last year but did not start any in a platoon system with Matt Lehr. DiNapoli went on injured reserve after the Cowboys seventh game with an ankle injury. DiNapoli came to Dallas as a free agent in 2003 and should provide veteran depth behind Johnson at center. He recently signed a two year contract extension.

Tyson Walter (6-5, 310) – Walter has made his mark as a jack of all trades offensive lineman. He has the unique ability to play all five spots on the offensive line. The Cowboys have been working Walter at center this offseason and he will be working to secure as spot on the roster as a reserve lineman.

Predicted Final Roster Offensive Lineman:
Flozell Adams, Larry Allen, Al Johnson, Andre Gurode, Torrin Tucker, Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman, Gennaro DiNapoli, Kurt Vollers, Matt Lehr.

Predicted Practice Squad Players:
Tango McCauley, Thomas Herrion

[jterrell]

good read. I supect the final breakdown is very similar to the prediction tho it would not at all suprise me to see Gurode beat out by Peterman or Rogers to get the starts over Tucker. I think 2 PS spots are guaranteed on the OL and maybe even 3.

[Jon88]

Good breakdown. I expect the offensive line to be one of the team's strengths this year.

[MichaelWinicki]

It was an outstanding read.

[ghettogandhi]

finally someone who understands this teams offensive line depth-j

THE COWBOYS HAVE THE BEST OLINE DEPTH IN THE LEAGUE

[Hollywood Henderson]

Yes, well done.
I doubt however that Lehr even makes the team this year though...

[AJM1613]

finally someone who understands this teams offensive line depth-j

THE COWBOYS HAVE THE BEST OLINE DEPTH IN THE LEAGUE
Not exactly...

[Hostile]

I loved reading that. I like the predictions.

Herrion on the Practice Squad really intrigues me as does Torrin Tucker. I wonder if these guys are not diamonds in the rough who could really make it as starters when time comes for cap casualties, retirement, injury, etc.

Thank you for a great breakdown.

[MichaelWinicki]

finally someone who understands this teams offensive line depth-j

THE COWBOYS HAVE THE BEST OLINE DEPTH IN THE LEAGUE


Boy is that optimistic. I can't go that far.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I loved reading that. I like the predictions.

Herrion on the Practice Squad really intrigues me as does Torrin Tucker. I wonder if these guys are not diamonds in the rough who could really make it as starters when time comes for cap casualties, retirement, injury, etc.

Thank you for a great breakdown.

I'll tell ya Hos, I like that Herrion kid as well. Don't sleep on this kid. He is going to surprise some people.

Be in Phoenix Monday.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Very Good read Junk...thanks!

[Hostile]

I'll tell ya Hos, I like that Herrion kid as well. Don't sleep on this kid. He is going to surprise some people.

Be in Phoenix Monday.
Oh man. I was going to be headed there Monday but one of my buildings had an A/C unit go out and now I have a crane coming to deliver a new one. One of these days we'll hook up for some lunch.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Oh man. I was going to be headed there Monday but one of my buildings had an A/C unit go out and now I have a crane coming to deliver a new one. One of these days we'll hook up for some lunch.


LOL, you better make sure you clear your schedule. From one old broken down SOB to another, I have a feeling the diet will be more liquid then substance.

[Hostile]

LOL, you better make sure you clear your schedule. From one old broken down SOB to another, I have a feeling the diet will be more liquid then substance.
LMAO

Well, I don't drink so I'll drive.

[junk]

LMAO

Well, I don't drink so I'll drive.

If you are that old, maybe you shouldn't be driving either. :D

[Hostile]

If you are that old, maybe you shouldn't be driving either. :D
:D

Can someone please remove this knife from my back? Or twist it so it hurts more?

[MichaelWinicki]

:D

Can someone please remove this knife from my back? Or twist it so it hurts more?

Ok you're homely too?






Did that work?

[Maikeru-sama]

Man, that was one hell of a read. Junk, can you tell me who wrote the article?

I think the Offensive Line is the going to be the weakness of this team for 1-2 years. Whenever you have the possibilty of starting 3 Rookiers (Al Johnson is basically a rookie) and some are even learning new positions in the NFL, then there will always be a pretty decent learning curve.

We really dont know how Larry Allen will respond. Some of his teammates said he checked out of games because he couldnt handle being beat by a defender.

If Andre Gurode does start, he will need to cut down on penalties and other mental mistakes.

I think the Key to this offensive line is a new addition on the Defensive Line, Marcellus Wiley. If Ellis and Glover can continue their past production and Wiley can get back to the form of 2 seasons ago, then this should allow this OL to stay off the field more.

Questions at Center, RT, RG, FB, RB and QB all tend to make me feel we will probably struggle a bit this year. But we will find out who can play and who cannot.

- Mike G.

[Hostile]

Ok you're homely too?






Did that work?
Much better...thanks.




Where's that damn Percocet?

[big dog cowboy]

I think the Offensive Line is the going to be the weakness of this team for 1-2 years.

I couldn't disagree more with that statement.

[Maikeru-sama]

Funny. The Offensive Line has been one of the Cowboys's main weaknesses for a while now. Constant changes at Center, Guard and Tackle have made it almost impossible for the group to develop some chemistry together. Now we will be looking at a brand new Center, Right Tackle and possibly Right Guard.

The OL gave up 53 combined sacks in 2002 which was 3rd most in 2002. Hutch only played in 9 Games and accounted for 34 of those sacks.

The OL gave up 37 sacks in 2003 and would have been more if Carter didnt have decent mobility.

2001 - Stepnoski at C, Garmon at RG and Page at RT to...

2002 - Gurode and Walter at C, Garmon and Page at RG, and Page and Collins at RT To...

2003 - Lehr and Walter at C, Gurode at RG, and Young and Tucker at RT To possibly...

2004 - Johnson at C, Gurode/Petermann at RG and Rogers/Tucker at RT

Yep, im sure this unit will need some time to develop and will probably be the weak link in the chain again!!!

It has been this way for at least the last 2 seasons now.

- Mike G.

[junk]

I couldn't disagree more with that statement.

One way or another, I feel Parcells will make both his lines into dominant units.

[u4ea242]

I think the Key to this offensive line is a new addition on the Defensive Line, Marcellus Wiley. If Ellis and Glover can continue their past production and Wiley can get back to the form of 2 seasons ago, then this should allow this OL to stay off the field more.

- Mike G.

:confused:

If Ellis and Glover play better...doesn't that mean the OL will stay ON the field more???

[Maikeru-sama]

:confused:

If Ellis and Glover play better...doesn't that mean the OL will stay ON the field more???

I should have phrased the statement better!!!

When I spoke of the DL helping the OL, I was thinking more in terms of field position. Also, less pressure to play well right off the bat because the DL should keep the game score low and fairly close.

- Mike G.

[Bluefin]

first off, thanks for the read Junk. Good stuff.

Predicted Final Roster Offensive Lineman:
Flozell Adams, Larry Allen, Al Johnson, Andre Gurode, Torrin Tucker, Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman, Gennaro DiNapoli, Kurt Vollers, Matt Lehr.
I agree with keeping 10 offensive linemen and Lehr is as good a guess as any for the final spot.

Tyson Walter also has a chance thanks to his intelligence and ability to play every position. It's always nice to have such a utility man.

And there's always the chance one of the rookies simply catches fire and bumps one of the veterans off the roster.

Predicted Practice Squad Players:
Tango McCauley, Thomas Herrion
Parcells indicated he may not use his full practice squad allotment (bumped from 5 to 8) this year, but with all these young prospects, I'd expect two or three to make it as long as they clear waivers.

I think the Offensive Line is the going to be the weakness of this team for 1-2 years. Whenever you have the possibilty of starting 3 Rookiers (Al Johnson is basically a rookie) and some are even learning new positions in the NFL, then there will always be a pretty decent learning curve.
I see the offensive line as a boom or bust unit.

There is talent to spare across the board, and if the starters gel quickly, the unit could easily start to play like a dominant unit the way Parcells thought they would last training camp.

That's if the questions are answered.

If they aren't the unit could again struggle to win the line of scrimmage and keep their quarterback clean.

We really dont know how Larry Allen will respond. Some of his teammates said he checked out of games because he couldnt handle being beat by a defender.
LA wasn't in good cardio shape last year and he never bought into Parcells' way of coaching.

Things have been settled since the draft and Allen will be more prepared to play football this year than at any time in recent memory.

Playing alonside Flozell Adams, the new anchor of the line, Allen will give the team the unique ability of possibly being a dominant weakside running team.

Defenses may have a hard time with that.

The question is Allen's mind.

He seems to become furious with himself anytime he doesn't play up to his own expectations.

LA may need to make peace with the fact he's no longer the best lineman in the game if he can't play at his old level.

That'd be OK becuase Allen would still be better than most, but it'd be up to him to come to grips with it.

If Andre Gurode does start, he will need to cut down on penalties and other mental mistakes.
The staff acted like Gurode was going to take the NFL by storm last year and he ended up getting benched for a game by a one legged tackle who'd never played guard.

It isn't a question of talent, Gurode can be as good as he wants to be.

How much fire does he have and how bad does he want it?


Questions at Center, RT, RG, FB, RB and QB all tend to make me feel we will probably struggle a bit this year. But we will find out who can play and who cannot.

It may be a bit of struggle early on, but linemen love to man block in the running game and that's what Parcells wants to do.

If the starters remain healthy through the pre-season and start get familiar with each other, the unit could take off from the start.

The key, IMO, is center Al Johnson.

He's far superior to what we had last year and possesses the ability to change how the line plays.

Johnson is a smart player and should do a good job calling out assignments. that will allow the other players to get a clear idea of what they're assignments are and set them up for success.

Johnson is also a mobile center much like ex-Steeler Dermonti Dawson, a rarity in the NFL.

Johnson's mobility will greatly improve Dallas' ability to run sweers, traps and screen passes.

And he likes to finish blocks, there's no such thing as too much nastiness in the running game, IMO.

Even with the struggles on offense over the second half of the season, the Cowboys finished fourth in the NFL with a time of possession aveage of 32:34.

Where will they finish if things click?

Numero Uno, baby.

There are questions that must be answered, but the line is better prepared to answer them in year two of the Parcells era with increased talent and depth.

Run, baby, run.

[Maikeru-sama]

I am just not that optimistic about the Offensive Line this year. Goose Gosselin was on Sports Talk the other day saying some of the same things. Also, I think the Time of Possession had more to do with Carter's feet, his tendecy to throw short passes to Anderson (who lead the team in receptions) and Witten, and the Max Protect schemes Bill Parcells seemed to run alot last year.

Also, having a Defense that ranked #1 and #3 against the pass and and rush respectively probably did alot to get the O the ball as well.

You made alot of good points. It would be something if Al Johnson played near the level of Dermonti Dawson.

- Mike G.

[MichaelWinicki]

I am just not that optimistic about the Offensive Line this year. Goose Gosselin was on Sports Talk the other day saying some of the same things. Also, I think the Time of Possession had more to do with Carter's feet, his tendecy to throw short passes to Anderson (who lead the team in receptions) and Witten, and the Max Protect schemes Bill Parcells seemed to run alot last year.

Also, having a Defense that ranked #1 and #3 against the pass and and rush respectively probably did alot to get the O the ball as well.

You made alot of good points. It would be something if Al Johnson played near the level of Dermonti Dawson.

- Mike G.

Mick. I agree with you. Potential is one thing. Doing it on the field is another. And I don't know if we even have the potential many on this board believe we do.

[Bluefin]

I am just not that optimistic about the Offensive Line this year. Goose Gosselin was on Sports Talk the other day saying some of the same things. Also, I think the Time of Possession had more to do with Carter's feet, his tendecy to throw short passes to Anderson (who lead the team in receptions) and Witten, and the Max Protect schemes Bill Parcells seemed to run alot last year.

Also, having a Defense that ranked #1 and #3 against the pass and and rush respectively probably did alot to get the O the ball as well.

You made alot of good points. It would be something if Al Johnson played near the level of Dermonti Dawson.

- Mike G.


I can see all the questions with each starting candidate and have concerns over how the unit will come together like most everyone else, but I'm optimistic the line play will be much better this year.

Only Flozell Adams played at an acceptable level last year for the enitre season, IMO.

Even with all of thier short comings, the Dallas offense finished 15th in the league in yards and scored 28 touchdowns.

The Super Bowl teams, New England and Carolina, were living in the same neighborhood.

The Patriots offense ranked 17th and scored 32 touchdowns.

The Panthers offense ranked 16th and scored 28 touchdowns.

If the entire team improves, the offense won't have far to go to be good enough to help bring home a sixth ring.

The defense was very good last year and they may be ready to become a dominant unit if the front four improves as Parcells expects. The unit may not hold on to the number one statistical rating, but increasing turnovers will more than make up for it.

On special teams, punting and kickoffs should improve and the return game has little choice but to get better.

Then we come back to offense, where everything starts up front, IMO.

Flozell Adams (2nd) - The best of the group with the potential to be awesome.
Larry Allen (2nd) - Is in good shape and finally understands what Parcells wants.
Al Johnson (2nd) - Well ahead of schedule returning from injury and clearly superior to last year's options.
Andre Gurode (2nd) - A world of talent with questionable desire, has improved strength during the off-season.
Torrin Tucker (UFA) - Also improved strength during off-season and is the prototype for right tackle.

Stephen Peterman (3rd) - A high effort player who seemingly loves mucking in the trenches, will push Gurode for his job.
Jacob Rogers (2nd) - College left tackle switching sides in the Pros, will push to start while also providing insurance at LT if the Hotel was closed for the season.

That's five 2nd round selections, a 3rd rounder and a projected first day selection who somehow went undrafted.

The unit has one of the best position coaches in the NFL with George Warhop.

Most of these guys are in their second year with the new staff and are better prepared to do things the "Parcells way".

Even with questions looming, I can't help but to be optimistic about seeing the unit improve over last year.

[notherbob]

Junk -

Please refrain from using the terms "Offensive line" and "Breakdown" in the same sentence. After the last few years, I'm a little sensitive about that. :rolleyes:

'notherBob

PS - I love your avatar, Van Gogh is my favorite painter and Starry Night is my favorite painting.

[jay cee]

I can see all the questions with each starting candidate and have concerns over how the unit will come together like most everyone else, but I'm optimistic the line play will be much better this year.

Only Flozell Adams played at an acceptable level last year for the enitre season, IMO.

Even with all of thier short comings, the Dallas offense finished 15th in the league in yards and scored 28 touchdowns.

The Super Bowl teams, New England and Carolina, were living in the same neighborhood.

The Patriots offense ranked 17th and scored 32 touchdowns.

The Panthers offense ranked 16th and scored 28 touchdowns.

If the entire team improves, the offense won't have far to go to be good enough to help bring home a sixth ring.

The defense was very good last year and they may be ready to become a dominant unit if the front four improves as Parcells expects. The unit may not hold on to the number one statistical rating, but increasing turnovers will more than make up for it.

On special teams, punting and kickoffs should improve and the return game has little choice but to get better.

Then we come back to offense, where everything starts up front, IMO.

Flozell Adams (2nd) - The best of the group with the potential to be awesome.
Larry Allen (2nd) - Is in good shape and finally understands what Parcells wants.
Al Johnson (2nd) - Well ahead of schedule returning from injury and clearly superior to last year's options.
Andre Gurode (2nd) - A world of talent with questionable desire, has improved strength during the off-season.
Torrin Tucker (UFA) - Also improved strength during off-season and is the prototype for right tackle.

Stephen Peterman (3rd) - A high effort player who seemingly loves mucking in the trenches, will push Gurode for his job.
Jacob Rogers (2nd) - College left tackle switching sides in the Pros, will push to start while also providing insurance at LT if the Hotel was closed for the season.

That's five 2nd round selections, a 3rd rounder and a projected first day selection who somehow went undrafted.

The unit has one of the best position coaches in the NFL with George Warhop.

Most of these guys are in their second year with the new staff and are better prepared to do things the "Parcells way".

Even with questions looming, I can't help but to be optimistic about seeing the unit improve over last year.

Another great post from Bluefin. I know it may not be popular to have a positive outlook. But after reading all of these negative posts, it is great to see someone give well thought out reasons why the Cowboys COULD be successfull this season.

[MichaelWinicki]

Another great post from Bluefin. I know it may not be popular to have a positive outlook. But after reading all of these negative posts, it is great to see someone give well thought out reasons why the Cowboys COULD be successfull this season.

I guess it all comes down to the word "Successful".

If Dallas ends up 8-8 BUT we determine that Q is or is not the starter for '05, that Julius Jones is the answer at RB, that Wiley and Ellis can combine for 18 sacks and Hunter can play corner at least to an "Edwardian" level then I would consider that a success... especially combined with a Buffalo 2-14 record!

[baj1dallas]

Boy is that optimistic. I can't go that far.


I don't know what the Cowboys have on o-line right now except for Flozell. A month into the season maybe we'll all be saying the same thing...but right now, it's way too early.

[Maikeru-sama]

I guess it all comes down to the word "Successful".

If Dallas ends up 8-8 BUT we determine that Q is or is not the starter for '05, that Julius Jones is the answer at RB, that Wiley and Ellis can combine for 18 sacks and Hunter can play corner at least to an "Edwardian" level then I would consider that a success... especially combined with a Buffalo 2-14 record!

That would be one hell of a Season. I for one think we are going to struggle this year. But if Pete can play, Wiley and Ellis get double digit sacks (which means Wiley returned back to form) and Jones is the answer, that means they have 1 more year under their belt and we can look elswhere in the draft on day one. Maybe look at positions were wouldnt have thought about prior to that.

Oh yea, Junk, please check your PMs.

- Mike G.

[ABQCOWBOY]

LMAO

Well, I don't drink so I'll drive.


Oh crap. Well, I figured I'd be taking a cab either way. I guess we can sit down and have good eat. I keep threatening you with it. One of these days, I'm going to have to keep my promise and catch up with you.

[big dog cowboy]

One way or another, I feel Parcells will make both his lines into dominant units.

That is where games are really won and lost. I still like the direction we are going.

[speedkilz88]

I doubt Tango McCauley would clear waivers, since the Cowboys outbid several other teams this year with a $100,000 signing bonus. If they are right on him he will make it over Lehr who will be a UFA next year anyway and there isn't a need for him with Al Johnson and DiNapoli at center.

[The Curly One]

It does not matter how many offensive linemen or players you have on the roster you only have eleven players on the field. While I see a lot of potential in some of the younger guys that does not mean we will have a dominant offensive line this year. I do predict Larry Allen will take his useless a$$ out of the games a lot or get beat every play again. Thats just the way it is, he has not stopped anyone in years and now he will be dominant again because he understands what Parcells wants? Hello! Is there anybody in there? Where do you come up with that crap? Being an offensive lineman is really fairly simple. Stop the defensive guy from going past you and open holes for the runningback. It is not brain surgery here.
Our offensive line will not be dominant this year but should be an improvement over last year and the previous years. The one exception of course is Larry Allen he is getting older, slower and worse ever year. Our offensive line will be vastly improved every time LA sits on the bench. Sad but true.
The other problem is it usually takes several years before a lineman (offense or defense) becomes really good. At this point it is our best option to but the new guys in and hope they learn quick.

"The defense was very good last year and they may be ready to become a dominant unit if the front four improves as Parcells expects. The unit may not hold on to the number one statistical rating, but increasing turnovers will more than make up for it."

Now I agree with that 100%. The number one rating means absolutly nothing if they are not getting turnovers. You have to have the ball in your hands to score points. PERIOD! If we get a good front four on the defense then this defense will be very good and we can ride that pony deep in the playoffs. But your offense still has to put points on the board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junk
One way or another, I feel Parcells will make both his lines into dominant units.


That is where games are really won and lost. I still like the direction we are going.

I sure hope so. Curly

[speedkilz88]

It does not matter how many offensive linemen or players you have on the roster you only have eleven players on the field. While I see a lot of potential in some of the younger guys that does not mean we will have a dominant offensive line this year. I do predict Larry Allen will take his useless a$$ out of the games a lot or get beat every play again. Thats just the way it is, he has not stopped anyone in years and now he will be dominant again because he understands what Parcells wants? Hello! Is there anybody in there? Where do you come up with that crap? Being an offensive lineman is really fairly simple. Stop the defensive guy from going past you and open holes for the runningback. It is not brain surgery here.
Our offensive line will not be dominant this year but should be an improvement over last year and the previous years. The one exception of course is Larry Allen he is getting older, slower and worse ever year. Our offensive line will be vastly improved every time LA sits on the bench. Sad but true.
The other problem is it usually takes several years before a lineman (offense or defense) becomes really good. At this point it is our best option to but the new guys in and hope they learn quick.



Now I agree with that 100%. The number one rating means absolutly nothing if they are not getting turnovers. You have to have the ball in your hands to score points. PERIOD! If we get a good front four on the defense then this defense will be very good and we can ride that pony deep in the playoffs. But your offense still has to put points on the board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junk
One way or another, I feel Parcells will make both his lines into dominant units.


That is where games are really won and lost. I still like the direction we are going.

I sure hope so. Curly
Larry Allen should be better this year because his fat arse ain't fat anymore!

[The Curly One]

It aint gonna happen folks! The show is over move along now. But he does understand what Parcells wants from him now. Curly

[junk]

It aint gonna happen folks! The show is over move along now. But he does understand what Parcells wants from him now. Curly

You have serious Larry Allen issues. Does he steal your newspaper everyday or what?

He was fat and was coasting because the previous coaching staff would let him. Parcells basically said get in shape or you are out of here. Nobody wanted him, so he appears to have gotten himself in shape.

Granted, he isn't the player he once was, but really there are not that many guards that are far superior to him in the NFC.

[LaTunaNostra]

It does not matter how many offensive linemen or players you have on the roster you only have eleven players on the field. While I see a lot of potential in some of the younger guys that does not mean we will have a dominant offensive line this year.

Curly, you're right only 11 men at a time out there, but increasingly a dominant oline means depth and versatility, not solely ability. Witness the interchangable cogs in New England's well oiled machine that could plug a Dan Koppen in for a Damien Woody in a playoff race with no discernable falloff.

That's what Tuna seems to be after, and in a ball control offense like his, young fresh rotational legs are the key. I look at the depth this year and get happy. Much of the improvement is kids having gotten another year under their belts, but in addition, we have diverse skills and some ideal role players.

Vollers I like a lot. He is a guy who can turn back bull rushers. Not crazy about his pass protection as of yet, but I want him in there on run plays. Seems smart too.

Lehr I admit a weakness for, but he also plays bigger than his size. He is a trap and pull guy, and swing center-guards who don't make mistake are with their weight in gold.

Dinap is also smallish, but he's mean and has some technique. He has quick feet too and I want him in for pass protection when Johnson is rested.

Tucker has a ways to go I think, technique wide, but he has arms like a pterodactyl so maybe teaching can make up for some of the bad angles he looked like he was taking last year. Collins seemed callow too, the little I saw of him and needs to learn to counter beyond simple moves. But he can be a factor vs the run.

The way I see it is the playbook is going to expand a great deal, and the oline, and the tight ends have diverse roles. Ryan and Witten and Campbell are going to be featured on two te sets. The best pulling and trapping guys will come in for those plays. Peterman and Jacobs are said to be meanies, and that's one thing anyone who sticks around is going to have to have in abundance. Toughness, and love of contact. Bill aims to make defenses PAY.

I foresee a very aggressive, agile line with niches galore. Plenty of work for all of them and insurance against injury as each man will know his role and be tuned to something akin to eventual perfection in it. A la New England.

Just as there was no "number one, two, or three receivers" last season, the concept of starter at oline is about to take a seachange, imo.

The recipe calls for versatility, agility, top notch conditioning, and mean streaks.

We shall see!

[SALADIN]

Curly, you're right only 11 men at a time out there, but increasingly a dominant oline means depth and versatility, not solely ability. Witness the interchangable cogs in New England's well oiled machine that could plug a Dan Koppen in for a Damien Woody in a playoff race with no discernable falloff.

That's what Tuna seems to be after, and in a ball control offense like his, young fresh rotational legs are the key. I look at the depth this year and get happy. Much of the improvement is kids having gotten another year under their belts, but in addition, we have diverse skills and some ideal role players.

Vollers I like a lot. He is a guy who can turn back bull rushers. Not crazy about his pass protection as of yet, but I want him in there on run plays. Seems smart too.

Lehr I admit a weakness for, but he also plays bigger than his size. He is a trap and pull guy, and swing center-guards who don't make mistake are with their weight in gold.

Dinap is also smallish, but he's mean and has some technique. He has quick feet too and I want him in for pass protection when Johnson is rested.

Tucker has a ways to go I think, technique wide, but he has arms like a pterodactyl so maybe teaching can make up for some of the bad angles he looked like he was taking last year. Collins seemed callow too, the little I saw of him and needs to learn to counter beyond simple moves. But he can be a factor vs the run.

The way I see it is the playbook is going to expand a great deal, and the oline, and the tight ends have diverse roles. Ryan and Witten and Campbell are going to be featured on two te sets. The best pulling and trapping guys will come in for those plays. Peterman and Jacobs are said to be meanies, and that's one thing anyone who sticks around is going to have to have in abundance. Toughness, and love of contact. Bill aims to make defenses PAY.

I foresee a very aggressive, agile line with niches galore. Plenty of work for all of them and insurance against injury as each man will know his role and be tuned to something akin to eventual perfection in it. A la New England.

Just as there was no "number one, two, or three receivers" last season, the concept of starter at oline is about to take a seachange, imo.

The recipe calls for versatility, agility, top notch conditioning, and mean streaks.

We shall see!

You really should consider opening a football school for other young women such as yourself.

Forgive me for bringing gender in this but unlike most, men or women, you actually watch the game, the players, the match ups and formulate an educated opinion. You REALLY know your stuff!

Sports writers and so called experts don't even do that.

How come I don't know anyone else like you?

Take us to you leader :)

[LaTunaNostra]

You really should consider opening a football school for other young women such as yourself.

Forgive me for bringing gender in this but unlike most, men or women, you actually watch the game, the players, the match ups and formulate an educated opinion. You REALLY know your stuff!

Sports writers and so called experts don't even do that.

How come I don't know anyone else like you?

Take us to you leader :)

I think I just came across my leader myself, my friend.

A female Cowboys fan at the cowboys_forum goes by the name of Kittymama.

At first I thought she was ME in some parallel universe, lol, but she's heads up on me by virtue of her long years of Cowboy fandom. I read thru her 200 odd posts entranced!

I'm gonna intoduce myself this week and grovel at her feet.

She hates the Redskins too!!~

It's not kosher to raid other board posters for their ringers, but anyone can get her here --->

I got a bounty on her head. :p

[Hostile]

I think I just came across my leader myself, my friend.

A female Cowboys fan at the cowboys_forum goes by the name of Kittymama.

At first I thought she was ME in some parallel universe, lol, but she's heads up on me by virtue of her long years of Cowboy fandom. I read thru her 200 odd posts entranced!

I'm gonna intoduce myself this week and grovel at her feet.

She hates the Redskins too!!~

It's not kosher to raid other board posters for their ringers, but anyone can get her here --->

I got a bounty on her head. :p
By all means, please invite her.

[Bluefin]

Thats just the way it is, he has not stopped anyone in years and now he will be dominant again because he understands what Parcells wants? Hello! Is there anybody in there? Where do you come up with that crap?

Larry Allen didn't exactly play a lot of football or have surgery free off-seasons in the two years before Bill Parcells' arrival in Big D.

And I listened to Bill Parcells praise Allen for his play in a couple of press conferences later in the season, so LA wasn't a complete matador, IMO.

As for where I got my feces, some came from a "friend" of Allen's and the rest was from various articles.

LA has been focusing on conditioning work with strenght coach Joe Juraszek since the meeting of the minds and the "friend" (ocasional poster on another board, take it with a grain of salt) claimed that Allen was also working out in the method Parcells prefers for his linemen to improve his explosion.

Is that bad?

If Allen didn't want to play in Dallas, he would've accepted the draft day trade to Detroit, forced his release or retired.

If Parcells and Warhop didn't believe LA could still get the job done as a starter, he wouldn't be going to camp.

Allen is in better shape physically and mentally than he's been in for some time.

LA had never been pushed and proded by coaches before last year, so looking back, perhaps the situation should've been anticipated.

I don't know how much better Allen can play or how the above events might help him, but I do see them as reasons to be optimistic rather than pessimistic.


That is where games are really won and lost. I still like the direction we are going.

My thoughts exactly.

With seven strong starting candidates and improved depth being guided by top tier coaching, how can things not get better (excluding injuries)?

Two of last year's starters aren't even competing to start or at their old positions this year.

Simply getting a solid and steady performance from one other position besides LT will make the unit better than last years as I see things.

I'm optimistic that will happen with two other positions at least.

I don't know if the line can become dominant this year with the changes and everything, but they don't have to in order to improve over what was on the field last year, IMO.


I doubt Tango McCauley would clear waivers, since the Cowboys outbid several other teams this year with a $100,000 signing bonus. If they are right on him he will make it over Lehr who will be a UFA next year anyway and there isn't a need for him with Al Johnson and DiNapoli at center.

Tango's signing was somewhat under the radar.

Did he really get a triple digit signing bonus?

Like I said in my first post, the final spot(s) for the line should be wide open and any of the new guys may flash skills and claim a spot(s).

The CFL is a passing league, so I'd imagine McCauley is well versed in pass protection.

Anyone know if he has any versatility to his game, can Tango fill in at tackle or center in a inch?

Parcells craves versatile linemen as back-ups, that ability would help McCauley make the cut, IMO.

[MichaelWinicki]

You have serious Larry Allen issues. Does he steal your newspaper everyday or what?



I think it involved "pee" & "cornflakes".

[dmq]

I wonder if Parcells could have made anything out of Kelvin Garmon or Solomon Page? Although he has done wonders with Flozell, but not Gurode. Solomon reminds me a little Gurode. Had the talent, but not the work ethic.

[Maikeru-sama]

I wonder if Parcells could have made anything out of Kelvin Garmon or Solomon Page? Although he has done wonders with Flozell, but not Gurode. Solomon reminds me a little Gurode. Had the talent, but not the work ethic.


Dang dmq, I never thought about that. That is a good hypothetical question.

- Mike G.

[Bluefin]

I wonder if Parcells could have made anything out of Kelvin Garmon or Solomon Page? Although he has done wonders with Flozell, but not Gurode. Solomon reminds me a little Gurode. Had the talent, but not the work ethic.

I'd certainly never say never, both of those guys have talent.

I think Garmon simply wasn't pushed enough and took it easy as other players did during the Campo regime.

Page, on the other hand, didn't seem to have the heart to play up to his potential.

I'd probably rate Garmon as the easier player to salvage, but Parcells whipped both Flozell Adams and Willie Blade into productive players last year and both had big questions about their desire for the game.

We'll never know what a lot of Dallas' draft washouts might have become with better coaching during their stay in Big D.

[jay cee]

I guess it all comes down to the word "Successful".

If Dallas ends up 8-8 BUT we determine that Q is or is not the starter for '05, that Julius Jones is the answer at RB, that Wiley and Ellis can combine for 18 sacks and Hunter can play corner at least to an "Edwardian" level then I would consider that a success... especially combined with a Buffalo 2-14 record!


Anything less than the 2nd round of the playoffs is unsuccessful in my book. Your post seems to be saying losing is ok, as long as they can get rid of Carter. I can never put one player over the team.

[jobberone]

I doubt Tango McCauley would clear waivers, since the Cowboys outbid several other teams this year with a $100,000 signing bonus. If they are right on him he will make it over Lehr who will be a UFA next year anyway and there isn't a need for him with Al Johnson and DiNapoli at center.

I would keep Lehr over DiNapoli but that's a small point. I know Lehr is penciled in at RG now but he's versatile and can play center or either guard. I'm still hoping Al is the answer at center. It makes me nervous to be counting on an untested rookie coming off a relatively new procedure for knee surgery to be the starting center. I want a dominant line and it's asking a lot for a rookie to anchor that although he has a lot of help at LG and LT. You also have someone coming off a not so good year at RG and no one established at RT to help. That's a lot of ifs for me.

[Chocolate Lab]

I'll tell ya Hos, I like that Herrion kid as well. Don't sleep on this kid. He is going to surprise some people.Agreed, ABQ... I don't know why, but I have a good feeling about him. For one, unlike a Lehr-type who is maxed out size-wise at around 300 lbs, Herrion looks like he could be a fairly lean 320 or even more. He's a big boy.

[MichaelWinicki]

Anything less than the 2nd round of the playoffs is unsuccessful in my book. Your post seems to be saying losing is ok, as long as they can get rid of Carter. I can never put one player over the team.


No, what my post is saying is that one day here very soon it will be determined if Quincy Carter is a capable bus driver or not. The sooner we know and can move onto other things the better.

I'll tell you what as much as I enjoyed the Superbowl wins I enjoyed the building of those teams oh so much more. I enjoyed the whole process of taking an aging roster filled with the untalented and turning into a team that could threaten for the Superbowl every year for a 5 year period. That was great.

This team still does not have the overall talent needed to be a Superbowl contender. There is no doubt in my mind about this. I think it's at least one year away.

I can accept an 8-8 record if the team appears to be headed upwards.

The second round of the playoffs? Please! Yeah that would be great but I wouldn't count on it and I wouldn't let that be a threshold to determine if it's a good season or not.

[jay cee]

No, what my post is saying is that one day here very soon it will be determined if Quincy Carter is a capable bus driver or not. The sooner we know and can move onto other things the better.

I'll tell you what as much as I enjoyed the Superbowl wins I enjoyed the building of those teams oh so much more. I enjoyed the whole process of taking an aging roster filled with the untalented and turning into a team that could threaten for the Superbowl every year for a 5 year period. That was great.

This team still does not have the overall talent needed to be a Superbowl contender. There is no doubt in my mind about this. I think it's at least one year away.

I can accept an 8-8 record if the team appears to be headed upwards.

The second round of the playoffs? Please! Yeah that would be great but I wouldn't count on it and I wouldn't let that be a threshold to determine if it's a good season or not.


What are they lacking to be a superbowl contender? IMO, with this defense, if the offense improves only slightly from last year, this team will be a serious contender.

[junk]

What are they lacking to be a superbowl contender? IMO, with this defense, if the offense improves only slightly from last year, this team will be a serious contender.

Much improved play at QB and RB. Who knows if Jones or the RB by committee group will get it done. Improved OL play. Actually improvement everywhere on offense except TE.

More turnovers from the defense.

[Hostile]

What are they lacking to be a superbowl contender? IMO, with this defense, if the offense improves only slightly from last year, this team will be a serious contender.
I still maintain we need more sacks, more takeaways, better QB play, better RB play, and Hunter to step up.

[MichaelWinicki]

I still maintain we need more sacks, more takeaways, better QB play, better RB play, and Hunter to step up.


Well that's not much of a list! :D

HOS LET'S RESERVE OUR TICKETS FOR THE BOWL RIGHT NOW!

[Cheap Shot Artist]

I guess it all comes down to the word "Successful".

If Dallas ends up 8-8 BUT we determine that Q is or is not the starter for '05, that Julius Jones is the answer at RB, that Wiley and Ellis can combine for 18 sacks and Hunter can play corner at least to an "Edwardian" level then I would consider that a success... especially combined with a Buffalo 2-14 record!

Screw Edwardian...gimme Larry Brown like and Im thrilled

[MichaelWinicki]

Screw Edwardian...gimme Larry Brown like and Im thrilled


YEAH! What he said!

[jay cee]

Much improved play at QB and RB. Who knows if Jones or the RB by committee group will get it done. Improved OL play. Actually improvement everywhere on offense except TE.

More turnovers from the defense.


that's where we differ. I don't think the offense needs to be great, only good. They were poor last year and IMO, slight improvements in the O-line, passing and running games will make them a good offense.

[jay cee]

I still maintain we need more sacks, more takeaways, better QB play, better RB play, and Hunter to step up.


So are you saying that the defense last year was too poor to make it to the Superbowl, with a good offense?

[jobberone]

Especially if you're talking turnovers and game breaking plays. We need those as well as sacks and a serious CB opposite Newman.

I'd like to see this but what is most important is for the offense to score at least 21+ points a game and I'd like a minimum of 25.

I'm not certain why more fans aren't keying in on this stat.

If you score 25 a game and give up 17 or less with a decent positive turnover ratio you will be a serious contender.

How you get there is the key because everyone is counting beans and everyone but AZ wants to get to the SB every year. (Just mostly kidding about the latter part of that sentece) :)

[Hostile]

So are you saying that the defense last year was too poor to make it to the Superbowl, with a good offense?
You give me that defense with Peyton Manning and even a marginally acceptable RB and I think we win the Super Bowl.

I still think the key to our current team being a force for an extended period of time is to have a defense no one can score on consistently because our offense is poor.

I do not fault the defense for anything other than not enough sacks and takeaways. I feel f we add those two things we're a much better team and that includes the offense because it will mean shorter field for scoring drives.

I do not excuse the defense any more than I excuse the RB or QB that I have been critical of. I do think they played a MUCH larger part of the 10 wins than the offense. There is room for improvement though.

[jay cee]

You give me that defense with Peyton Manning and even a marginally acceptable RB and I think we win the Super Bowl.

I still think the key to our current team being a force for an extended period of time is to have a defense no one can score on consistently because our offense is poor.

I do not fault the defense for anything other than not enough sacks and takeaways. I feel f we add those two things we're a much better team and that includes the offense because it will mean shorter field for scoring drives.

I do not excuse the defense any more than I excuse the RB or QB that I have been critical of. I do think they played a MUCH larger part of the 10 wins than the offense. There is room for improvement though.


I don't think this defense needs possibly one of the best qb's ever to be a superbowl contender. The Colts did pretty well last year and their defense was not nearly as good as the Cowboys.

I think a qb of Kerry Collins caliber could have had the Cowboys in superbowl contention last year.

[Hostile]

I don't think this defense needs possibly one of the best qb's ever to be a superbowl contender. The Colts did pretty well last year and their defense was not nearly as good as the Cowboys.

I think a qb of Kerry Collins caliber could have had the Cowboys in superbowl contention last year.
Maybe so. I am less likely to think we have a prayer without good QB and RB play though without the defense being top notch in all phases. In my opinion we weren't that. We needed more takeaways and sacks to go along with the few points allowed to be that.

I want that more than I want anything else. I'd like a legendary defense that scares teams so badly their QBs wet themselves. I admit I want that more than an offense that is electric and scores like a pinball machine.

[blindzebra]

Maybe so. I am less likely to think we have a prayer without good QB and RB play though without the defense being top notch in all phases. In my opinion we weren't that. We needed more takeaways and sacks to go along with the few points allowed to be that.

I want that more than I want anything else. I'd like a legendary defense that scares teams so badly their QBs wet themselves. I admit I want that more than an offense that is electric and scores like a pinball machine.

It's a chicken and egg thing. A better offense would have led to more sacks and takeaways, because we could have been much more agressive.

A better pass rush from the DL would have also generated more takeaways.

If Wiley moving Ellis over can lead to 30+ sacks from the DL we will have more takeaways and a better offense.

I'd rather have a scary good defense and an offense that can get a lead and not commit turnovers in the other teams side of the field and get TDs instead of FGs.

[Hostile]

It's a chicken and egg thing. A better offense would have led to more sacks and takeaways, because we could have been much more agressive.

A better pass rush from the DL would have also generated more takeaways.

If Wiley moving Ellis over can lead to 30+ sacks from the DL we will have more takeaways and a better offense.

I'd rather have a scary good defense and an offense that can get a lead and not commit turnovers in the other teams side of the field and get TDs instead of FGs.
I just want to be good all over the team. Nothing wrong with that as long as I leave one position untouched and un-criticized.

[MichaelWinicki]

I just want to be good all over the team. Nothing wrong with that as long as I leave one position untouched and un-criticized.


Yeah I know what your intent was with that last smart *** post there Hos. :D

I'll tellin Q-Card what you're up too.

[Hostile]

I'll tellin Q-Card what you're up too.
He probably already knows. Omniscience is a rare thing. Infallability even rarer.

[MichaelWinicki]

He probably already knows. Omniscience is a rare thing. Infallability even rarer.


And there you go with your English Major stuff.


Man Hos you lose me when you get all intellectual on us. :D

[junk]

And there you go with your English Major stuff.


Man Hos you lose me when you get all intellectual on us. :D


He is not fooling me. I know he has a word of the day calendar.

[MichaelWinicki]

He is not fooling me. I know he has a word of the day calendar.


He is a sneaky bastid isn't he?

[jay cee]

And there you go with your English Major stuff.


Man Hos you lose me when you get all intellectual on us. :D


I thought you must have been the English major, until I read this.....

I'll tellin Q-Card what you're up too.

[hockix]

I don't think this defense needs possibly one of the best qb's ever to be a superbowl contender. The Colts did pretty well last year and their defense was not nearly as good as the Cowboys.

I think a qb of Kerry Collins caliber could have had the Cowboys in superbowl contention last year.

You must be kidding. With the play of our Oline and no runing game.
Your think Collins would have done anything more than QC?

I don't think so...

[MichaelWinicki]

I thought you must have been the English major, until I read this.....


Oh no, better than that...


A "Marketing Geek"!


Not only can I tell you that I'm right, but I'll convince you of it also.

[Tio]

Our OL is young and deep. Same with our DL. Both are the two most important position in the nfl. The fact is, most linemen can't play more than 80% of the game. They are also the most likely to injury. If you have depth at ol, along with qaulity starters then you got a bunch of win right there alone. Ask the panthers.

[MichaelWinicki]

Our OL is young and deep. Same with our DL. Both are the two most important position in the nfl. The fact is, most linemen can't play more than 80% of the game. They are also the most likely to injury. If you have depth at ol, along with qaulity starters then you got a bunch of win right there alone. Ask the panthers.


They may be young and deep but we don't know how talented they really are... and that is the crux of the problem. Some are going to be talented and some aren't. Depending upon "who" and "where" will determine our the fates of our "O" & "D" lines.