Nice stat on #1 QB's and 10 reasons to get one.

[Hiero]

1: Round in which the six highest-rated passers in the NFL all were drafted


Top 6 passers right now were all drafted in the first round. Coincidence? Obviously not, people may point to teams like the Ravens who won the superbowl with Dilfer, or Brady a 6th round pick. But for the most part if you want a qb with big time potential it has to be done in the first. It's a risky move, but sometimes you have to have the balls to make the move, that's been put off for far too long.

The reason why we would need to do this in 2006 is this: the rookie qb needs to sit one year or possibly even 2 max, before they can be a starter, and usually breakout in the 3rd year. If we draft a qb in 2006, Bledsoe will still definitely be the starter, and whoever we get (probably in mid to late first round) would have no pressure on him to do anything. Depending on how well Bledsoe played and how well the rookie was progressing, Bledsoe could even end up starting in 2007.

The time is perfect to select a young qb.
1)We've got the luxury of a sure starter for once in a really long time with Bledsoe.
2) we've got a defense that is on the verge of breakout, and has a lot of young guys who are starters/future starters.
3) we've got one of the best Running games in the league, JJ is a workhorse beast, and imo TT and Barber will be very good backs after they get more game time.
4) Bledsoe is a nice guy who is actually willing to teach a young guy things, similar to the way Rivera is. Bledsoe wouldnt be too arrogant or scared of losing his job too mentor the young guy. and Bledsoe would be at the end of a very good possibly HOF career and would really have nothing left to prove besides maybe a super bowl.
5) great coach with a keen eye for scouting. If we did draft a qb in the first round, odds are Parcells would choose the right one.
6) Henson is already 3rd on the depth chart, and with his relatively cheap contract, we could keep him on the team for the next couple years at a low cost, without having to cut Bledsoe or the rookie.
7) Dallas has the potential to be a super bowl contender in the next few years, and with Bledsoe at the end of his career we would need a big time qb capable of taking us all the way to the promised land.
8) we wouldnt be taking a QB #1 overall so the contract would be immensely smaller compared to an Alex Smith or Rivers type contract. Our pick next year is going to be from 15-32 most likely somewhere in the 20's. We could get a very good quality qb and still be able to keep henson.
9) This coming year should be a pretty good overall group of QB's. Besides the obvious franchise qb of leinart, Omar Jacobs will probably come out, Quinn could come out, Vince Young might, Reggie McNeal, and a few others who could shoot up depending on this college season.
10) last reason is, what would the cowboys be without their usual Franchise QB. we've got the trademark big play RB with JJ in now. We need our trademark QB to get Dallas back to the superbowl.

[Hiero]

anyone got the particulars on what kind of contract Losman and Aaron Rodgers are signed to?

[dargonking999]

Well i dont know about cheap contract for henson, but i'm all for drafting a QB in the frist round, as long as two things

we dont trade up to get him, it aint worth it

we dont reach for him (I.E even though a supporter cant kncok the truth Quincy Carter)

[Qwickdraw]

anyone got the particulars on what kind of contract Losman and Aaron Rodgers are signed to?
Losman is signed to a "I'm a joke of a pro QB and will never amount to anything" contract and I think Rodgers signed a "Look at me, I'll never be crap in the NFL so I might as well quit now" contract.

I think.

[LeonDixson]

1: Round in which the six highest-rated passers in the NFL all were drafted



9) This coming year should be a pretty good overall group of QB's. Besides the obvious franchise qb of leinart, Omar Jacobs will probably come out, Quinn could come out, Vince Young might, Reggie McNeal, and a few others who could shoot up depending on this college season.
.

I keep hearing about how good Omar Jacobs is. I've only seen him play once (last week) and he was horrible. He must have just been having an off day, because I respect the opinions on this board and most of you rave about Omar. Reggie McNeal has caught my attention though. I would like to see more of him.

Vince Young is really doing a much better job of passing this year too.

[Chuck 54]

If you select a QB in round 1, you don't select him on potential or athletic ability or on arm...you also don't select a guy who started 1 year or only had 1-2 good years, if you can help it.

If you select a QB in round 1, you want a guy who's at least a 3 year starter... a guy who has played in a fairly open passing attack... a guy who made other guys around him better... a guy who is a leader on his team... a guy who had guys talking about his first round status when he was a sophomore/junior... a guy who played against top competition even if from a smaller program... a guy who rose to the occasion at the senior bowl or any other post season games.

You'd love to have the prototype 6'4" with decent legs and an accurate cannon for an arm, but a little of the arm strength stuff is overrated...you want a winner who's already proven himself in many ways.

Then you cut down on the chance he'll bust or disappoint...it's not foolproof, but falling in love with a strong arm or potential in a QB in shorts and a T-shirt is foolish. Don't project first round QB's...take guys with a nice resume and plenty of tape against tough defenses...how did this guy perform when his team was behind or in the 4th quarter when he's already thrown 2 picks.

That's my opinion...if you can find it all, GREAT...if not, don't let arm strength or spiral or a few huge games or 1 great season cause you to become too enamored.

[CowboyManDan]

Where do I sign for us to do this? :)

I say get a another talented young qb in here to get ahead of the game. You don't win in this league with bus drivers. Bledsoe is not playing as a bus driver right now, he's flinging it around with authority....like the way we'd want a youngster to look. Sitting a year or so if Bledsoe keeps this up would be fine for the guy....ala Carson Palmer (he sat 1 year, struggled some and gained experience his 2nd, and now he's excelling in his 3rd).

[btcutter]

Please don't take V Young. He's a RB playing QB. I am sorry but he'll never be anything more than a great college CB. His accuracy is horrible and he depends too much on running which will get himself killed. BTW, he's not even in the same class as Vick.

[Paniolo22]

Marcus ....Vick...Book it!

[dargonking999]

Marcus ....Vick...Book it!

i dont think he's a first round pick, Vince young would be a first rpund pick IMO

[ghst187]

I keep hearing about how good Omar Jacobs is. I've only seen him play once (last week) and he was horrible. He must have just been having an off day, because I respect the opinions on this board and most of you rave about Omar. Reggie McNeal has caught my attention though. I would like to see more of him.

Vince Young is really doing a much better job of passing this year too.

Likewise on the Omar Jacobs bit. Looked like a I-AA QB the game I saw him play.
McNeal isn't a franchise guy you take in the first round IMO. In fact, I don't foresee him being a good starter in the NFL. He's too inconsistent. Some great flashes, but nothing to hang your hat on. What really put my opinion of him down a notch was when A&M lost to Clemson.
Young will be Vick revisited. Will make the most amazing play you've ever seen, then follow it with 3 questionable ones and 1 boneheaded one (often resulting in a TO). I don't think he'll ever be consistent enough to be great QB.
Guys I like, obviously Leinert. Pro-style offense, guy just flat out WINS over and over again. Has just enough arm strength but the way he sees the play before the snap and makes his reads is impressive.
Brady Quinn, guy has moxie. Has good arm, good head and will get even better with another year under a SB caliber offensive coach.

[Hiero]

Just trying to project which kind of qb's will fall to our pick. I know there is going to be some other QB's maybe Leak, ive heard of a couple good ones from the MAC(which tends to be more towards my prototypical qb *leftwich*) . Imagine if we had Leftwich with this line, this rb, and these wr's. we'd be super bowl contenders for sure this year. What's the guy from the mac named? I know he's supposed to be pretty good, and he looked kinda like roethlisberger in size.

[Hiero]

Brady Quinn, guy has moxie. Has good arm, good head and will get even better with another year under a SB caliber offensive coach.
This would be an ideal pick for Parcells and I would love it. However I would be fairly surprised to see him leave after this, his junior season. He is going to want to come back for a chance to win a national title imo, if they keep progressing like this. If he does come back, he'd be perfect to ride the pine while Bledsoe was starting, and would be more ready than other college qb's if bledsoe gets hurt.

[Paniolo22]

i dont think he's a first round pick, Vince young would be a first rpund pick IMO

Even better, we could get him in the 3rd or 4th. Sporting News had a good tidbit about him saying he is more comfortable throwing than taking off and running. His only drawback is he is 5'11. I stll don't care, if we got him in the 3rd I'd be ecstatic.

[Hiero]

Even better, we could get him in the 3rd or 4th. Sporting News had a good tidbit about him saying he is more comfortable throwing than taking off and running. His only drawback is he is 5'11. I stll don't care, if we got him in the 3rd I'd be ecstatic.
I dunno after watching Brees and other small qb's the chance they have of actually becoming good starters is usually really low. Brees in past seasons looked like he could never see over his line, which is why he tries to bootleg it a little bit sometimes, and he has to jump sometimes when he throws it. Leak seems to be fundamentally great though, if he has a big year I think it could push him into the first.

[dbair1967]

Marcus ....Vick...Book it!

Marcus Vick= no chance at QB in the NFL...

book that

David

[dbair1967]

i dont think he's a first round pick, Vince young would be a first rpund pick IMO

I wouldnt touch him either

David

[dbair1967]

Even better, we could get him in the 3rd or 4th. Sporting News had a good tidbit about him saying he is more comfortable throwing than taking off and running. His only drawback is he is 5'11. I stll don't care, if we got him in the 3rd I'd be ecstatic.

there's alot more drawbacks to Marcus Vick other than just being 5'11

this guy has zero chance at being a starting NFL QB

David

[dargonking999]

Marcus Vick= no chance at QB in the NFL...

book that

David


Did the Vick family do soemthing to you, you seem to dislike them all :rolleyes:

[blindzebra]

Just trying to project which kind of qb's will fall to our pick. I know there is going to be some other QB's maybe Leak, ive heard of a couple good ones from the MAC(which tends to be more towards my prototypical qb *leftwich*) . Imagine if we had Leftwich with this line, this rb, and these wr's. we'd be super bowl contenders for sure this year. What's the guy from the mac named? I know he's supposed to be pretty good, and he looked kinda like roethlisberger in size.

If we had Leftwich, we would not have Newman.

We would have been in a desperate need for a CB and would have needed to draft one or overpay for the likes of Winfield in 2004, probably both.

The need would have lessened the chance of us trading down with the Bills, would Jones have been there at our pick?

No trade means no Spears.

The cap impact of a 1st rd QB, means less money for the FA we signed this year, meaning one probably goes unsigned.

Having Leftwich could mean no Newman, Jones, Spears and one of Henry, Rivera or Ferguson.

Better off?

I don't think so.;)

[fancow]

Jason Campbell is the next STUD......

[dargonking999]

Jason Campbell is the next STUD......


right And Romo, is the next troy Aikman:rolleyes:

[fancow]

right And Romo, is the next troy Aikman:rolleyes:

Well they both are good announcers. Why can't it be? :confused:

[Gordon]

I'm not a big fan of drafting QB's early in the first round because of the money they request, but the idea of drafting one with a late 1st round pick (20 or later) either based on a good final record or trading back is looking better and better by the day, especially in this draft class. I don't like the idea of drafting a guy and throwing him into the fire, so we might as well capitalize on the fact that we have Bledsoe who can mentor the kid for 2 years and also keep the team competitive.

For the Henson/Romo supporters, obviously one of them will be kept, more likely Henson with his long contract and if he does end up panning out then we have a problem. A problem I'd like to have.

Ideally, being an ND fan, I'd love to see Brady Quinn, but I doubt he leaves after this year. ND isn't really losing too many key players and the defense will improve as they're all basically first year starters right now. They have realistic BCS bowl expectations next year, and I'm sure he realizes another year under Charlie Weis can only help him.

Omar Jacobs has been shaky this year outside the first half of the opener against Wisconsin where he looked like his 2004 form, but I still like him. Even so, he's leading the nation in TD passes and has his offense at #2 in the nation. He's very similar to Daunte Culpepper in the size/speed mixture though a little smaller, and is just a playmaker, in my opinion.

Who knows who will be avialable when we pick thoough, so much changes after combines, senior bowl, etc. I really don't want to trade up for a top 5 pick (or be so bad that we get a top 5 pick and take a QB). The chances of a successful QB are up, but you really sacrifice your future with the contract.

[Paniolo22]

there's alot more drawbacks to Marcus Vick other than just being 5'11

this guy has zero chance at being a starting NFL QB

David
Zero chance is being unrealistic. Is he going to light it up right away? No, but he is a far better passing propect than his brother, who oh by the way, was the #1 pick in the draft. He is also faster if you can believe that. It would be plain ignorance to say he has "Zero chance" :rolleyes: to start in the NFL. I can name 5 teams that would take him now.

[Hiero]

We could have drafted Cb's sometime other than that one pick. and we wouldnt have to worry about qb for like 10 years.


If we had Leftwich, we would not have Newman.

We would have been in a desperate need for a CB and would have needed to draft one or overpay for the likes of Winfield in 2004, probably both.

The need would have lessened the chance of us trading down with the Bills, would Jones have been there at our pick?

No trade means no Spears.

The cap impact of a 1st rd QB, means less money for the FA we signed this year, meaning one probably goes unsigned.

Having Leftwich could mean no Newman, Jones, Spears and one of Henry, Rivera or Ferguson.

Better off?

I don't think so.;)

[Hostile]

I make no bones about being a QB elitest. You want to accuse me of it? I plead guilty.

Consider this list I have submitted before. This is the Super Bowl winning and losing QBs and where they were drafted.

SB I
Bart Starr...17th round
Len Dawson...1st round (5th overall)

SB II
Bart Starr...17th round
Daryle Lamonica...12th round

SB III
Joe Namath...1st round (Overall #1)
Johnny Unitas...9th round

SB IV
Len Dawson...1st round (5th overall)
Joe Kapp...18th round

SB V
Earl Morrall...1st round (2nd overall)
Roger Staubach...10th round

SB VI
Roger Staubach...10th round
Bob Griese...1st round (4th overall)

SB VII
Bob Griese...1st round (4th overall)
Billy Kilmer...1st round (11th overall)

SB VIII
Bob Griese...1st round (4th overall)
Fran Tarkenton...3rd round

SB IX
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Fran Tarkenton...3rd round

SB X
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Roger Staubach...10th round

SB XI
Ken Stabler...2nd round
Fran Tarkenton...3rd round

SB XII
Roger Staubach...10th round
Craig Morton...1st round (5th overall)

SB XIII
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Roger Staubach...10th round

SB XIV
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Vince Ferragamo...4th round

SB XV
Jim Plunkett...1st round (Overall #1)
Ron Jaworski...2nd round

SB XVI
Joe Montana...3rd round
Ken Anderson...3rd round

SB XVII
Joe Theisman...4th round
David Woodley...8th round

SB XVIII
Jim Plunkett...1st round (Overall #1)
Joe Theisman...4th round

SB XIX
Joe Montana...3rd round
Dan Marino...1st round (27th overall)

SB XX
Jim McMahon...1st round (5th overall)
Steve Grogan...5th round

SB XXI
Phil Simms...1st round (7th overall)
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXII
Doug Williams...1st round (17th overall)
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXIII
Joe Montana...3rd round
Norman Esiason...2nd round

SB XXIV
Joe Montana...3rd round
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXV
Jeff Hostetler...3rd round
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVI
Mark Rypien...6th round
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVII
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVIII
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXIX
Steve Young...1st round (Overall #1) ***USFL***
Stan Humphries...6th round

SB XXX
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Neil O'Donnell...3rd round

SB XXXI
Brett Favre...2nd round
Drew Bledsoe...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXXII
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)
Brett Favre...2nd round

SB XXXIII
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)
Chris Chandler...3rd round

SB XXXIV
Kurt Warner...undrafted
Steve McNair...1st round (3rd overall)

SB XXXV
Trent Dilfer...1st round (6th overall)
Kerry Collins...1st round (5th overall)

SB XXXVI
Tom Brady...6th round
Kurt Warner...undrafted

SB XXXVII
Brad Johnson...4th round
Rich Gannon...9th round

SB XXXVIII
Tom Brady...6th round
Jake Delhomme...undrafted

SB XXXIX
Tom Brady...6th round
Donovan McNabb...1st round (2nd overall)

Okay, by my math there are 39 Super Bowl winning QBs and 78 Super Bowl QBs. There was something weird about Seve Young's draft history. Tampa had his rights. He was overall #1 by the USFL but an NFL site I used listed him as a 1st. I'm using him, because he had that kind of talent.

21 of the 39 Winners were 1st rounders. That's 54% of the time the winning QB is a 1st rounder.

37 of the 78 who have led their team to the game. That's 47% of the time a QB plays in the Super Bowl he is a 1st rounder.

12 of the 39 Super Bowls have been won by the overall #1 pick of a draft. That is 31% of the time.

29 of the 78 Super Bowl QBs were drafted in the top 10 of their drafts. That's 37%.

This is why I am a QB elitest. Can you win without an elite QB? Sure you can. I like the odds better of winning one, or more importantly, more than 1, with an elite QB.

I'd also like to say that had Roger Staubach not gone to the Navy he would have been a top 10 pick, likely overall #1 and these numbers go up.

This is why I like Drew Henson so much. I know there are guys here who do not like to hear it but he was being projected as the overall #1 before he opted to go play baseball. I hope our Coaching staff can tap into that talent. If they can't, how sad.

[dbair1967]

Zero chance is being unrealistic. Is he going to light it up right away? No, but he is a far better passing propect than his brother, who oh by the way, was the #1 pick in the draft. He is also faster if you can believe that. It would be plain ignorance to say he has "Zero chance" :rolleyes: to start in the NFL. I can name 5 teams that would take him now.

I guess we'll see...somebody will probaby take him, but he wont be a starter

David

[red dog]

I was at that game in Boise and Zabransky, who hasn't looked good either, definitely out-shone Jacobs. Omar looked absolutely LOST! One hoppers, behind the receivers, and panic abounded. They actually pulled him at the start of the second half with the game 48-6 and put him back in at the start of the 4th quarter when Boise State had their scrubs in. Omar THEN proceded to rack up some mop-up numbers. We should pass on this O.J.!

[dbair1967]

Did the Vick family do soemthing to you, you seem to dislike them all :rolleyes:

no, I just dont care for small QB's who's running skills far surpass their ability to read defenses and throw the football consistently

then add in the questionable off the field stuff with both, and you have even more reason to dislike the Vicks as players

David

[fancow]

I make no bones about being a QB elitest. You want to accuse me of it? I plead guilty.

Consider this list I have submitted before. This is the Super Bowl winning and losing QBs and where they were drafted.

SB I
Bart Starr...17th round
Len Dawson...1st round (5th overall)

SB II
Bart Starr...17th round
Daryle Lamonica...12th round

SB III
Joe Namath...1st round (Overall #1)
Johnny Unitas...9th round

SB IV
Len Dawson...1st round (5th overall)
Joe Kapp...18th round

SB V
Earl Morrall...1st round (2nd overall)
Roger Staubach...10th round

SB VI
Roger Staubach...10th round
Bob Griese...1st round (4th overall)

SB VII
Bob Griese...1st round (4th overall)
Billy Kilmer...1st round (11th overall)

SB VIII
Bob Griese...1st round (4th overall)
Fran Tarkenton...3rd round

SB IX
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Fran Tarkenton...3rd round

SB X
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Roger Staubach...10th round

SB XI
Ken Stabler...2nd round
Fran Tarkenton...3rd round

SB XII
Roger Staubach...10th round
Craig Morton...1st round (5th overall)

SB XIII
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Roger Staubach...10th round

SB XIV
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Vince Ferragamo...4th round

SB XV
Jim Plunkett...1st round (Overall #1)
Ron Jaworski...2nd round

SB XVI
Joe Montana...3rd round
Ken Anderson...3rd round

SB XVII
Joe Theisman...4th round
David Woodley...8th round

SB XVIII
Jim Plunkett...1st round (Overall #1)
Joe Theisman...4th round

SB XIX
Joe Montana...3rd round
Dan Marino...1st round (27th overall)

SB XX
Jim McMahon...1st round (5th overall)
Steve Grogan...5th round

SB XXI
Phil Simms...1st round (7th overall)
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXII
Doug Williams...1st round (17th overall)
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXIII
Joe Montana...3rd round
Norman Esiason...2nd round

SB XXIV
Joe Montana...3rd round
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXV
Jeff Hostetler...3rd round
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVI
Mark Rypien...6th round
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVII
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVIII
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXIX
Steve Young...1st round (Overall #1) ***USFL***
Stan Humphries...6th round

SB XXX
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Neil O'Donnell...3rd round

SB XXXI
Brett Favre...2nd round
Drew Bledsoe...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXXII
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)
Brett Favre...2nd round

SB XXXIII
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)
Chris Chandler...3rd round

SB XXXIV
Kurt Warner...undrafted
Steve McNair...1st round (3rd overall)

SB XXXV
Trent Dilfer...1st round (6th overall)
Kerry Collins...1st round (5th overall)

SB XXXVI
Tom Brady...6th round
Kurt Warner...undrafted

SB XXXVII
Brad Johnson...4th round
Rich Gannon...9th round

SB XXXVIII
Tom Brady...6th round
Jake Delhomme...undrafted

SB XXXIX
Tom Brady...6th round
Donovan McNabb...1st round (2nd overall)

Okay, by my math there are 39 Super Bowl winning QBs and 78 Super Bowl QBs. There was something weird about Seve Young's draft history. Tampa had his rights. He was overall #1 by the USFL but an NFL site I used listed him as a 1st. I'm using him, because he had that kind of talent.

21 of the 39 Winners were 1st rounders. That's 54% of the time the winning QB is a 1st rounder.

37 of the 78 who have led their team to the game. That's 47% of the time a QB plays in the Super Bowl he is a 1st rounder.

12 of the 39 Super Bowls have been won by the overall #1 pick of a draft. That is 31% of the time.

29 of the 78 Super Bowl QBs were drafted in the top 10 of their drafts. That's 37%.

This is why I am a QB elitest. Can you win without an elite QB? Sure you can. I like the odds better of winning one, or more importantly, more than 1, with an elite QB.

I'd also like to say that had Roger Staubach not gone to the Navy he would have been a top 10 pick, likely overall #1 and these numbers go up.

This is why I like Drew Henson so much. I know there are guys here who do not like to hear it but he was being projected as the overall #1 before he opted to go play baseball. I hope our Coaching staff can tap into that talent. If they can't, how sad.


Stick with current SB Champs.

YAWN

It's not about the qb.....

[Hostile]

Stick with current SB Champs.

YAWN

It's not about the qb.....You have yet to show you know anything about the game.

[fancow]

You have yet to show you know anything about the game.

I know defense wins championships....and in the recent NFL QB's that don't make mistakes on teams with good d's win. If QB's won championships Peyton Manning would have a couple.

Thats the game.

[Hostile]

I know defense wins championships....and in the recent NFL QB's that don't make mistakes on teams with good d's win. If QB's won championships Peyton Manning would have a couple.

Thats the game.So, you maintain those teams won Super Bowl with defense and had mediocre offenses?

Beyond ridiculous.

[fancow]

So, you maintain those teams won Super Bowl with defense and had mediocre offenses?

Beyond ridiculous.

Ravens?

Yeah I am so off track.

Don't be angry because I am a skins fan.

QB's are important, but first rounders in todays NFL aren't important.

Don't be a hater bro...

[Hostile]

Ravens?

Yeah I am so off track.

Don't be angry because I am a skins fan.

QB's are important, but first rounders in todays NFL aren't important.

Don't be a hater bro...Kid, wake up.

Jamal Lewis wasn't exactly a nobody for the ravens. Yeah, their defense was impressive. Did it help them maintain Championship runs?

Let em answer that for you son. NO.

The fact remains elite QBs matter.

[fancow]

Kid, wake up.

Jamal Lewis wasn't exactly a nobody for the ravens. Yeah, their defense was impressive. Did it help them maintain Championship runs?

Let em answer that for you son. NO.

The fact remains elite QBs matter.

Who was their QB KID?

Uh it wasn't a HOF'er.

Brady a first rounder son? UH NO.

Rams QB? HOF'er? NO.

Bring it if you have it....but don't sweat me with no facts...

[Justis]

Oh yes, Donavan Mcnabb, Peyton Manning, and Carson Palmer all ended up to be good picks but for every one of them, there is a David Carr, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, J.P. Losman, and Tim Couch. The reason it's such a stupid thing to act like classic first rounders of yesterday are the same as today's overpaid top drafted QBs. Nowadays 1st round QBs demand unreal contracts that they seldom live up to. Back then you had to earn your salary.

[fancow]

Oh yes, Donavan Mcnabb, Peyton Manning, and Carson Palmer all ended up to be good picks bur for every one of them, there is a David Carr, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, J.P. Losman, and Tim Couch. The reason it's such a stupid thing to act like classic first rounders of yesterday are the same as today's overpaid top drafted QBs. Nowadays 1st round QBs demand unreal contracts that they seldom live up to. Back then you had to earn your salary.

Thank you.

I agree.

[Hostile]

Who was their QB KID?

Uh it wasn't a HOF'er.

Brady a first rounder son? UH NO.

Rams QB? HOF'er? NO.

Bring it if you have it....but don't sweat me with no facts...Hate to tell you this, but forget where Brady was drafted because he is an elite QB. Same as Joe Montana, Roger Staubach, et al.

Who was their QB? Trent Dilfer who was a top 10 draft pick. He hasn't lived up to it, but he won a SB.

Again, did they maintain a long run? No. You can't with defense alone. You need both.

Having an elite QB matters. Those are the facts.

[NeOn_KoWbOy_88]

Even better, we could get him in the 3rd or 4th. Sporting News had a good tidbit about him saying he is more comfortable throwing than taking off and running. His only drawback is he is 5'11. I stll don't care, if we got him in the 3rd I'd be ecstatic.

i think both vick's are 6 flat but regardless Vince Young is 6'4, has a better arm, can take off when needs to (so hes not a freak show of a qb who just runs all the time)

[Hostile]

Oh yes, Donavan Mcnabb, Peyton Manning, and Carson Palmer all ended up to be good picks but for every one of them, there is a David Carr, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, J.P. Losman, and Tim Couch. The reason it's such a stupid thing to act like classic first rounders of yesterday are the same as today's overpaid top drafted QBs. Nowadays 1st round QBs demand unreal contracts that they seldom live up to. Back then you had to earn your salary.It shocks me more when Cowboys fan don't realize how much QBs matter over any other team.

Just because guys can bust if taken in the 1st round doesn't mean anything. They can bust from any round.

[fancow]

Hate to tell you this, but forget where Brady was drafted because he is an elite QB. Same as Joe Montana, Roger Staubach, et al.

Who was their QB? Trent Dilfer who was a top 10 draft pick. He hasn't lived up to it, but he won a SB.

Again, did they maintain a long run? No. You can't with defense alone. You need both.

Having an elite QB matters. Those are the facts.

Last 5 Superbowls...who were the QB's?

[Hostile]

Last 5 Superbowls...who were the QB's?I gave you the entire list for every QB and every SB with where they were drafted.

Pay attention.

Who are the QBs whose teams have the best shot to win it all this year? You seeing a bunch of 3rd rounders in there?

[fancow]

I gave you the entire list for every QB and every SB with where they were drafted.

Pay attention.

Who are the QBs whose teams have the best shot to win it all this year? You seeing a bunch of 3rd rounders in there?

Hasselback, Brunell, Brady, Culpepper, McRibb

Not a bunch of 3rd rounders, but complete teams.

Do you think a NON complete team can win the SB?

[fancow]

I gave you the entire list for every QB and every SB with where they were drafted.

Pay attention.

Who are the QBs whose teams have the best shot to win it all this year? You seeing a bunch of 3rd rounders in there?

Like how you say Pay Attention when you got the noose around my neck. Smack talker.

[jterrell]

1: Round in which the six highest-rated passers in the NFL all were drafted


Top 6 passers right now were all drafted in the first round. Coincidence? Obviously not, people may point to teams like the Ravens who won the superbowl with Dilfer, or Brady a 6th round pick. But for the most part if you want a qb with big time potential it has to be done in the first. It's a risky move, but sometimes you have to have the balls to make the move, that's been put off for far too long.


I'll not argue with your reasons to draft a QB round 1 because they are simply your reasons. You are entiteld to your opinions for sure.

Quickly tho Trent Dilfer you use in your argument yet HE WAS A 1ST ROUND QB. 6th overall in fact.

However I will gladly debate the fact you call a nice stat. We are 3 whole weeks into the season and arguing anything based on this is nonsense. Especially some arbitrary nonsense like top 6. So lets look back at 2004 and take the top 15 quarterbacks in rating for the regular season.

1 Peyton Manning IND r 1, 1st overall
2 Daunte Culpepper MIN r 1, 11th overall
3 Drew Brees SD 2nd round.
4 Donovan McNabb PHI r1, 2nd overall
5 Ben Roethlisberger PIT r1, 11th overall
6 Brian Griese TB 3rd round
7 Trent Green KC 8th round, yes 8th
8 Marc Bulger STL 6th round
9 Tom Brady NE 6th round
10 Brett Favre GB 2nd round
11 Chad Pennington NYJ 1st round
12 Jake Delhomme CAR undrafted free agent
13 Billy Volek TEN undrafted free agent
14 Kurt Warner NYG undrafted free agent
15 Jake Plummer DEN 3rd round

Of those guys 5 out of 15 were 1st rounders; FIVE!!!!
Thats insanely poor drafting and evaluation. Or its just a sign of how hard it is to hit on Quarterbacks.

Further its not really about the top guys but all the guys who flopped setting franchises back years.

2002 1 1 1 1 David Carr Texans Fresno State
2 1 3 3 Joey Harrington Lions Oregon
3 1 32 32 Patrick Ramsey Redskins Tulane
4 3 16 81 Josh McCown Cardinals Sam Houston State
5 4 10 108 David Garrard Jaguars East Carolina
6 4 19 117 Rohan Davey Patriots Louisiana State
7 5 2 137 Randy Fasani Panthers Stanford
8 5 23 158 Kurt Kittner Falcons Illinois
9 5 28 163 Brandon Doman 49ers Brigham Young
10 5 29 164 Craig Nall Packers Northwestern State
11 6 14 186 J.T. O'Sullivan Saints California-Davis
12 6 33 205 Steve Bellisari Rams Ohio State
13 7 5 216 Seth Burford Chargers Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo
14 7 21 232 Jeff Kelly Seahawks Southern Mississippi
15 7 24 235 Ronald Curry Raiders North Carolina
16 7 25 236 Wes Pate Ravens Stephen F. Austin
2001 1 1 1 1 Michael Vick Falcons Virginia Tech
2 2 1 32 Drew Brees Chargers Purdue
3 2 22 53 Quincy Carter Cowboys Georgia
4 2 28 59 Marques Tuiasosopo Raiders Washington
5 4 11 106 Chris Weinke Panthers Florida State
6 4 14 109 Sage Rosenfels Redskins Iowa State
7 4 30 125 Jesse Palmer Giants Florida
8 5 18 149 Mike McMahon Lions Rutgers
9 5 24 155 A.J. Feeley Eagles Oregon
10 6 9 172 Josh Booty Seahawks Louisiana State
11 6 14 177 Josh Heupel Dolphins Oklahoma
2000 1 1 18 18 Chad Pennington Jets Marshall
2 3 3 65 Giovanni Carmazzi 49ers Hofstra
3 3 13 75 Chris Redman Ravens Louisville
4 5 34 163 Tee Martin Steelers Tennessee
5 6 2 168 Marc Bulger Saints West Virginia
6 6 17 183 Spergon Wynn Browns Southwest Texas State
7 6 33 199 Tom Brady Patriots Michigan
8 6 36 202 Todd Husak Redskins Stanford
9 6 39 205 JaJuan Seider Chargers Florida A&M
10 7 6 212 Tim Rattay 49ers Louisiana Tech
11 7 8 214 Jarious Jackson Broncos Notre Dame
12 7 28 234 Joe Hamilton Buccaneers Georgia Tech
1999 1 1 1 1 Tim Couch Browns Kentucky
2 1 2 2 Donovan McNabb Eagles Syracuse
3 1 3 3 Akili Smith Bengals Oregon
4 1 11 11 Daunte Culpepper Vikings Central Florida
5 1 12 12 Cade McNown Bears UCLA
6 2 19 50 Shaun King Buccaneers Tulane
7 3 16 77 Brock Huard Seahawks Washington
8 4 6 101 Joe Germaine Rams Ohio State
9 4 36 131 Aaron Brooks Packers Virginia
10 5 18 151 Kevin Daft Oilers California-Davis
11 7 21 227 Michael Bishop Patriots Kansas State
12 7 33 239 Chris Greisen Cardinals Northwest Missouri State
13 7 39 245 Scott Covington Bengals Miami (FL)
1998 1 1 1 1 Peyton Manning Colts Tennessee
2 1 2 2 Ryan Leaf Chargers Washington State
3 2 30 60 Charlie Batch Lions Eastern Michigan
4 3 25 86 Jonathan Quinn Jaguars Middle Tennessee State
5 3 30 91 Brian Griese Broncos Michigan
6 6 19 172 John Dutton Dolphins Nevada
7 6 34 187 Matt Hasselbeck Packers Boston College
8 7 43 232 Moses Moreno Bears Colorado State
1997 1 1 26 26 Jim Druckenmiller 49ers Virginia Tech
2 2 12 42 Jake Plummer Cardinals Arizona State
3 4 3 99 Danny Wuerffel Saints Florida
4 4 14 110 Pat Barnes Chiefs California
5 6 8 171 Mike Cherry Giants Murray State
6 6 28 191 Chuck Clements Jets Houston
7 7 3 204 Tony Graziani Falcons Oregon
8 7 6 207 Koy Detmer Eagles Colorado
9 7 33 234 Wally Richardson Ravens Penn State
10 7 36 237 Tony Corbin Chargers Sacramento State
11 7 39 240 Ronnie McAda Packers Army
1996 1 2 12 42 Tony Banks Rams Michigan State
2 3 24 85 Bobby Hoying Eagles Ohio State
3 4 5 100 Jeff Lewis Broncos Northern Arizona
4 4 35 130 Danny Kanell Giants Florida State
5 6 36 203 Spence Fischer Steelers Duke
6 6 38 205 Mike Cawley Colts James Madison
7 7 29 238 Jon Stark Ravens Trinity
8 7 31 240 Kyle Wachholtz Packers USC
1995 1 1 3 3 Steve McNair Oilers Alcorn State
2 1 5 5 Kerry Collins Panthers Penn State
3 2 13 45 Todd Collins Bills Michigan
4 2 28 60 Kordell Stewart Steelers Colorado
5 3 16 80 Stoney Case Cardinals New Mexico
6 3 20 84 Eric Zeier Browns Georgia
7 4 1 99 Rob Johnson Jaguars USC
8 4 13 111 Chad May Vikings Kansas State
9 4 21 119 Dave Barr Eagles California
10 4 36 134 Steve Stenstrom Chiefs Stanford
11 5 26 160 Jay Barker Packers Alabama
12 6 20 191 Jerry Colquitt Panthers Tennessee
13 6 26 197 Craig Whelihan Chargers Pacific
14 7 5 213 John Walsh Bengals Brigham Young
1994 1 1 3 3 Heath Shuler Redskins Tennessee
2 1 6 6 Trent Dilfer Buccaneers Fresno State
3 4 8 111 Perry Klein Falcons C.W. Post
4 4 13 116 Doug Nussmeier Saints Idaho
5 6 17 178 Jim Miller Steelers Michigan State
6 7 3 197 Gus Frerotte Redskins Tulsa
7 7 4 198 Jay Walker Patriots Howard
8 7 5 199 Steve Matthews Chiefs Memphis
9 7 14 208 Glenn Foley Jets Boston College


Where guys flopped it killed those teams. Look at the Texans with Carr. Imagine had they drafted Julius Peppers instead and had signed a veteran QB. Look ta that draft where we got Roy Williams at 8. It is one of the better drafts of the past 20 years. Yet Carr and Harrington and their respective teams are still struggling along. Carolina who took Peppers when they badly needed a QB went out and signed an undrafted guy in free agency then oh just went onto the Super Bowl.

[fancow]

Where are the first round QB Busts? Give the facts.....

[fancow]

I'll not argue with your reasons to draft a QB round 1 because they are simply your reasons. You are entiteld to your opinions for sure.

Quickly tho Trent Dilfer you use in your argument yet HE WAS A 1ST ROUND QB. 6th overall in fact.

However I will gladly debate the fact you call a nice stat. We are 3 whole weeks into the season and arguing anything based on this is nonsense. Especially some arbitrary nonsense like top 6. So lets look back at 2004 and take the top 15 quarterbacks in rating for the regular season.

1 Peyton Manning IND r 1, 1st overall
2 Daunte Culpepper MIN r 1, 11th overall
3 Drew Brees SD 2nd round.
4 Donovan McNabb PHI r1, 2nd overall
5 Ben Roethlisberger PIT r1, 11th overall
6 Brian Griese TB 3rd round
7 Trent Green KC 8th round, yes 8th
8 Marc Bulger STL 6th round
9 Tom Brady NE 6th round
10 Brett Favre GB 2nd round
11 Chad Pennington NYJ 1st round
12 Jake Delhomme CAR undrafted free agent
13 Billy Volek TEN undrafted free agent
14 Kurt Warner NYG undrafted free agent
15 Jake Plummer DEN 3rd round

Of those guys 5 out of 15 were 1st rounders; FIVE!!!!
Thats insanely poor drafting and evaluation. Or its just a sign of how hard it is to hit on Quarterbacks.

Further its not really about the top guys but all the guys who flopped setting franchises back years.

2002 1 1 1 1 David Carr Texans Fresno State
2 1 3 3 Joey Harrington Lions Oregon
3 1 32 32 Patrick Ramsey Redskins Tulane
4 3 16 81 Josh McCown Cardinals Sam Houston State
5 4 10 108 David Garrard Jaguars East Carolina
6 4 19 117 Rohan Davey Patriots Louisiana State
7 5 2 137 Randy Fasani Panthers Stanford
8 5 23 158 Kurt Kittner Falcons Illinois
9 5 28 163 Brandon Doman 49ers Brigham Young
10 5 29 164 Craig Nall Packers Northwestern State
11 6 14 186 J.T. O'Sullivan Saints California-Davis
12 6 33 205 Steve Bellisari Rams Ohio State
13 7 5 216 Seth Burford Chargers Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo
14 7 21 232 Jeff Kelly Seahawks Southern Mississippi
15 7 24 235 Ronald Curry Raiders North Carolina
16 7 25 236 Wes Pate Ravens Stephen F. Austin
2001 1 1 1 1 Michael Vick Falcons Virginia Tech
2 2 1 32 Drew Brees Chargers Purdue
3 2 22 53 Quincy Carter Cowboys Georgia
4 2 28 59 Marques Tuiasosopo Raiders Washington
5 4 11 106 Chris Weinke Panthers Florida State
6 4 14 109 Sage Rosenfels Redskins Iowa State
7 4 30 125 Jesse Palmer Giants Florida
8 5 18 149 Mike McMahon Lions Rutgers
9 5 24 155 A.J. Feeley Eagles Oregon
10 6 9 172 Josh Booty Seahawks Louisiana State
11 6 14 177 Josh Heupel Dolphins Oklahoma
2000 1 1 18 18 Chad Pennington Jets Marshall
2 3 3 65 Giovanni Carmazzi 49ers Hofstra
3 3 13 75 Chris Redman Ravens Louisville
4 5 34 163 Tee Martin Steelers Tennessee
5 6 2 168 Marc Bulger Saints West Virginia
6 6 17 183 Spergon Wynn Browns Southwest Texas State
7 6 33 199 Tom Brady Patriots Michigan
8 6 36 202 Todd Husak Redskins Stanford
9 6 39 205 JaJuan Seider Chargers Florida A&M
10 7 6 212 Tim Rattay 49ers Louisiana Tech
11 7 8 214 Jarious Jackson Broncos Notre Dame
12 7 28 234 Joe Hamilton Buccaneers Georgia Tech
1999 1 1 1 1 Tim Couch Browns Kentucky
2 1 2 2 Donovan McNabb Eagles Syracuse
3 1 3 3 Akili Smith Bengals Oregon
4 1 11 11 Daunte Culpepper Vikings Central Florida
5 1 12 12 Cade McNown Bears UCLA
6 2 19 50 Shaun King Buccaneers Tulane
7 3 16 77 Brock Huard Seahawks Washington
8 4 6 101 Joe Germaine Rams Ohio State
9 4 36 131 Aaron Brooks Packers Virginia
10 5 18 151 Kevin Daft Oilers California-Davis
11 7 21 227 Michael Bishop Patriots Kansas State
12 7 33 239 Chris Greisen Cardinals Northwest Missouri State
13 7 39 245 Scott Covington Bengals Miami (FL)
1998 1 1 1 1 Peyton Manning Colts Tennessee
2 1 2 2 Ryan Leaf Chargers Washington State
3 2 30 60 Charlie Batch Lions Eastern Michigan
4 3 25 86 Jonathan Quinn Jaguars Middle Tennessee State
5 3 30 91 Brian Griese Broncos Michigan
6 6 19 172 John Dutton Dolphins Nevada
7 6 34 187 Matt Hasselbeck Packers Boston College
8 7 43 232 Moses Moreno Bears Colorado State
1997 1 1 26 26 Jim Druckenmiller 49ers Virginia Tech
2 2 12 42 Jake Plummer Cardinals Arizona State
3 4 3 99 Danny Wuerffel Saints Florida
4 4 14 110 Pat Barnes Chiefs California
5 6 8 171 Mike Cherry Giants Murray State
6 6 28 191 Chuck Clements Jets Houston
7 7 3 204 Tony Graziani Falcons Oregon
8 7 6 207 Koy Detmer Eagles Colorado
9 7 33 234 Wally Richardson Ravens Penn State
10 7 36 237 Tony Corbin Chargers Sacramento State
11 7 39 240 Ronnie McAda Packers Army
1996 1 2 12 42 Tony Banks Rams Michigan State
2 3 24 85 Bobby Hoying Eagles Ohio State
3 4 5 100 Jeff Lewis Broncos Northern Arizona
4 4 35 130 Danny Kanell Giants Florida State
5 6 36 203 Spence Fischer Steelers Duke
6 6 38 205 Mike Cawley Colts James Madison
7 7 29 238 Jon Stark Ravens Trinity
8 7 31 240 Kyle Wachholtz Packers USC
1995 1 1 3 3 Steve McNair Oilers Alcorn State
2 1 5 5 Kerry Collins Panthers Penn State
3 2 13 45 Todd Collins Bills Michigan
4 2 28 60 Kordell Stewart Steelers Colorado
5 3 16 80 Stoney Case Cardinals New Mexico
6 3 20 84 Eric Zeier Browns Georgia
7 4 1 99 Rob Johnson Jaguars USC
8 4 13 111 Chad May Vikings Kansas State
9 4 21 119 Dave Barr Eagles California
10 4 36 134 Steve Stenstrom Chiefs Stanford
11 5 26 160 Jay Barker Packers Alabama
12 6 20 191 Jerry Colquitt Panthers Tennessee
13 6 26 197 Craig Whelihan Chargers Pacific
14 7 5 213 John Walsh Bengals Brigham Young
1994 1 1 3 3 Heath Shuler Redskins Tennessee
2 1 6 6 Trent Dilfer Buccaneers Fresno State
3 4 8 111 Perry Klein Falcons C.W. Post
4 4 13 116 Doug Nussmeier Saints Idaho
5 6 17 178 Jim Miller Steelers Michigan State
6 7 3 197 Gus Frerotte Redskins Tulsa
7 7 4 198 Jay Walker Patriots Howard
8 7 5 199 Steve Matthews Chiefs Memphis
9 7 14 208 Glenn Foley Jets Boston College


Where guys flopped it killed those teams. Look at the Texans with Carr. Imagine had they drafted Julius Peppers instead and had signed a veteran QB. Look ta that draft where we got Roy Williams at 8. It is one of the better drafts of the past 20 years. Yet Carr and Harrington and their respective teams are still struggling along. Carolina who took Peppers when they badly needed a QB went out and signed an undrafted guy in free agency then oh just went onto the Super Bowl.

Brady?

Brady?

Brady?

[Justis]

It shocks me more when Cowboys fan don't realize how much QBs matter over any other team.

Just because guys can bust if taken in the 1st round doesn't mean anything. They can bust from any round. Duh, you can bust in any round, but how many 2nd or 3rd round qbs ask for 20 million guaranteed. The National Football League has changed, it clearly hurts more than it helps to pick a 1st round QB, and besides our best QB was a late rounder.

[fancow]

Kurt Warner?

[fancow]

Duh, you can bust in any round, but how many 2nd or 3rd round qbs ask for 20 million guaranteed. The National Football League has changed, it clearly hurts more than it helps to pick a 1st round QB, and besides our best QB was a late rounder.

Who was that?

[Hostile]

Hasselback, Brunell, Brady, Culpepper, McRibb

Not a bunch of 3rd rounders, but complete teams.

Do you think a NON complete team can win the SB?You don't pay attention. I said a Defense can't win it alone. That you need both and that elite QBs give you a better chance.

Brunell? Please.

[Justis]

Who was that? Staubach

[Hostile]

Duh, you can bust in any round, but how many 2nd or 3rd round qbs ask for 20 million guaranteed. The National Football League has changed, it clearly hurts more than it helps to pick a 1st round QB, and besides our best QB was a late rounder.I do not agree.

The high paid QBs will get their teams in line for a shot, year after year. The "bus drivers" won't.

[fancow]

You don't pay attention. I said a Defense can't win it alone. That you need both and that elite QBs give you a better chance.

Brunell? Please.

SO the Ravens won with an elite QB? Brady??????????????

[fancow]

Staubach

He was the Boys best QB?????????????????????????????????

[Hostile]

SO the Ravens won with an elite QB? Brady??????????????Do I need to hold your hand?

Brady is an elite QB. Forget where he was drafted.

Dilfer may not be elite but he was a top 10 pick. Jamal Lewis was dangerous. What did I contend? Uh, that would be that you don't win Championships with "just" a defense, it takes both.

I admitted there are teams that break the trend. They do NOT sustain Championship runs. That's a fact.

You want one of those mediocre QBs you can have them.

I'll take the elite guys any day of the week.

[Hostile]

He was the Boys best QB?????????????????????????????????Proof that I was right not to be impressed with your football knowledge.

Or rather, lack thereof.

[fancow]

Do I need to hold your hand?

Brady is an elite QB. Forget where he was drafted.

Dilfer may not be elite but he was a top 10 pick. Jamal Lewis was dangerous. What did I contend? Uh, that would be that you don't win Championships with "just" a defense, it takes both.

I admitted there are teams that break the trend. They do NOT sustain Championship runs. That's a fact.

You want one of those mediocre QBs you can have them.

I'll take the elite guys any day of the week.

Well you got one with Bledsoe. Lets see what that gets you.

[Hostile]

Duh, you can bust in any round, but how many 2nd or 3rd round qbs ask for 20 million guaranteed. The National Football League has changed, it clearly hurts more than it helps to pick a 1st round QB, and besides our best QB was a late rounder.Had Staubach not had Naval commitments he would have been the overall #1 pick. Not a doubt in my mind.

[Hostile]

Well you got one with Bledsoe. Lets see what that gets you.Bledsoe has not lived up to his potential. That's just being honest.

[fancow]

Proof that I was right not to be impressed with your football knowledge.

Or rather, lack thereof.

You would rather have him in history than Aikman??????????????

Knowledge is King :)

[Hostile]

You would rather have him in history than Aikman??????????????

Knowledge is King :)Yes, and so would most Cowboy fans who were fans in the 70's and 80's. You never saw him play most likely, so no surprise.

When talking about the best QBs ever Staubach is in the conversation. As good as Aikman was he probably isn't.

Indeed, knowledge is king.

[jterrell]

SB XVI
Joe Montana...3rd round
Ken Anderson...3rd round

SB XVII
Joe Theisman...4th round
David Woodley...8th round

SB XVIII
[/color][/color][/color][/color]Jim Plunkett...1st round (Overall #1)
Joe Theisman...4th round

SB XIX
Joe Montana...3rd round
Dan Marino...1st round (27th overall)

SB XX
Jim McMahon...1st round (5th overall)
Steve Grogan...5th round

SB XXI
Phil Simms...1st round (7th overall)
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXII
Doug Williams...1st round (17th overall)
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXIII
Joe Montana...3rd round
Norman Esiason...2nd round

SB XXIV
Joe Montana...3rd round
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXV
Jeff Hostetler...3rd round
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVI
Mark Rypien...6th round
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVII
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVIII
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXIX
Steve Young...1st round (Overall #1) ***USFL***
Stan Humphries...6th round

SB XXX
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Neil O'Donnell...3rd round

SB XXXI
Brett Favre...2nd round
Drew Bledsoe...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXXII
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)
Brett Favre...2nd round

SB XXXIII
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)
Chris Chandler...3rd round

SB XXXIV
Kurt Warner...undrafted
Steve McNair...1st round (3rd overall)

SB XXXV
Trent Dilfer...1st round (6th overall)
Kerry Collins...1st round (5th overall)

SB XXXVI
Tom Brady...6th round
Kurt Warner...undrafted

SB XXXVII
Brad Johnson...4th round
Rich Gannon...9th round

SB XXXVIII
Tom Brady...6th round
Jake Delhomme...undrafted

SB XXXIX
Tom Brady...6th round
Donovan McNabb...1st round (2nd overall)

Okay, by my math there are 39 Super Bowl winning QBs and 78 Super Bowl QBs. There was something weird about Seve Young's draft history. Tampa had his rights. He was overall #1 by the USFL but an NFL site I used listed him as a 1st. I'm using him, because he had that kind of talent.

21 of the 39 Winners were 1st rounders. That's 54% of the time the winning QB is a 1st rounder.

37 of the 78 who have led their team to the game. That's 47% of the time a QB plays in the Super Bowl he is a 1st rounder.

12 of the 39 Super Bowls have been won by the overall #1 pick of a draft. That is 31% of the time.

29 of the 78 Super Bowl QBs were drafted in the top 10 of their drafts. That's 37%.

This is why I am a QB elitest. Can you win without an elite QB? Sure you can. I like the odds better of winning one, or more importantly, more than 1, with an elite QB.

I'd also like to say that had Roger Staubach not gone to the Navy he would have been a top 10 pick, likely overall #1 and these numbers go up.

This is why I like Drew Henson so much. I know there are guys here who do not like to hear it but he was being projected as the overall #1 before he opted to go play baseball. I hope our Coaching staff can tap into that talent. If they can't, how sad.



This argument falls flat in a couple of areas.

1st. Trent Dilfer lends credit to your 1st round Qb argument yet also gets labeled a spare. In fact he and Kerry Collins are both considered journeyman yet get credit as 1st round QBs. Are we arguing elite QBs like Staubach, Montana, Favre ya know like the best ever or merely 1st rounders??

2nd Statistical evidence needs to be relevant and to do so must stand the test of time. These stats are skewed horrendously to pre-salary cap era football. It makes the risk inherently different in drafting QBs 1st overall or even round 1 because you lose that pick and that cap money.

3rd. In the past 5 years out of 10 QBs 3 have been 1st rounders. 2 of those 3 after bouncing around a bit. McNabb is the only franchise 1st round guy in the past 5 years to make a Super Bowl. Brady is a franchise guy but he was a 6th round pick back then.

If you love 1st overall QBs you should love Drew Bledsoe NOT Drew Henson. Quincy Carter was also talked about as a 1st overall pick after his freshman season at Georgia. Talked about does not equate to IS. It was common knowledge Henson was failing as a baseball player and yet he didnt get drafted highly. The reason was his lack of play. No matter a guys physical skills QB is more than anything about intangibles that are unseen. You dont gain those playing baseball.

Drew Bledsoe is your perfect numbert 1 example. He took the team that drafted him to a Super Bowl. He is top 10 on career passing yardage. He has been healthy all but one season.

I havent given up on Drew Henson as a player here but he is not a franchise QB in the sense of a 1st overall rookie being brought in. He's already advanced beyond a kid player and if he does start he will be looking at a limited stretch not some 10 year haul.

[fancow]

Uh I am 40, I saw staubach.

Who would you prefer in todays nfl? aikman or staubach?

I would go with theisman :)

[Justis]

I do not agree.

The high paid QBs will get their teams in line for a shot, year after year. The "bus drivers" won't. You misunderstand me, I don't want a bus driver. I want a draft pick who either comes cheap enough that his bust won't sink the team, or a proven veteran who can lead the team. I'd never wan't Trent Dilfer. I'd never want Matt Leinart either. I want Drew Bledsoe, or Drew Brees, or Kerry Collins. Guys some other team took the chance on developing, and we can reap the benefits. Instead of throwing away a high draft pick on some parasite that may never depelop into anything and cost our franchise 3-4 years of progress. Like what has happened to most teams that have chosen to draft a QB in the 1st round.

[Hostile]

This argument falls flat in a couple of areas.

1st. Trent Dilfer lends credit to your 1st round Qb argument yet also gets labeled a spare. In fact he and Kerry Collins are both considered journeyman yet get credit as 1st round QBs. Are we arguing elite QBs like Staubach, Montana, Favre ya know like the best ever or merely 1st rounders??

2nd Statistical evidence needs to be relevant and to do so must stand the test of time. These stats are skewed horrendously to pre-salary cap era football. It makes the risk inherently different in drafting QBs 1st overall or even round 1 because you lose that pick and that cap money.

3rd. In the past 5 years out of 10 QBs 3 have been 1st rounders. 2 of those 3 after bouncing around a bit. McNabb is the only franchise 1st round guy in the past 5 years to make a Super Bowl. Brady is a franchise guy but he was a 6th round pick back then.

If you love 1st overall QBs you should love Drew Bledsoe NOT Drew Henson. Quincy Carter was also talked about as a 1st overall pick after his freshman season at Georgia. Talked about does not equate to IS. It was common knowledge Henson was failing as a baseball player and yet he didnt get drafted highly. The reason was his lack of play. No matter a guys physical skills QB is more than anything about intangibles that are unseen. You dont gain those playing baseball.

Drew Bledsoe is your perfect numbert 1 example. He took the team that drafted him to a Super Bowl. He is top 10 on career passing yardage. He has been healthy all but one season.

I havent given up on Drew Henson as a player here but he is not a franchise QB in the sense of a 1st overall rookie being brought in. He's already advanced beyond a kid player and if he does start he will be looking at a limited stretch not some 10 year haul.When did I say I hate Drew Bledsoe JT? I do say I like developing young QBs over other team's retreads.

I'm behind Bledsoe 100%. I am also pretty excited about the potential for the future.

I argued just 1st rounders as that was the subject of this thread, but I have addressed Staubach, Montana, and Brady as elite QBs. I don't consider Plunkett elite despite the 2 SB wins, yet he was the overall #1 and a Heisman winner.

I stayed within the topic of the thread. Other wise I would have added a lot more.

[Justis]

Uh I am 40, I saw staubach.

Who would you prefer in todays nfl? aikman or staubach?

I would go with theisman :) you better be joking.

[jterrell]

Yes, and so would most Cowboy fans who were fans in the 70's and 80's. You never saw him play most likely, so no surprise.

When talking about the best QBs ever Staubach is in the conversation. As good as Aikman was he probably isn't.

Indeed, knowledge is king.
I absolutely agree here.

I was a kid for Staubach and not a stats geek like now but I remembered all those nights I couldnt sleep because my heart was beating out of its chest after another Cowboys comeback against the Skins usually on Monday night.

I looked up Staubachs stats one day out of curiousty and the guy was incredible in his TD to INT ratio. For a guy who took so many Favre-like chances for big plays I was amazed his TD-INT ratio WAS BETTER THAN Aikman's. WOW!!

Staubach was magical. Still is in fact. I pray he runs for President soon.

[Hostile]

Uh I am 40, I saw staubach.

Who would you prefer in todays nfl? aikman or staubach?

I would go with theisman :)You're 40, but have to ask who our best QB ever is?

:omg:

[Hostile]

You misunderstand me, I don't want a bus driver. I want a draft pick who either comes cheap enough that his bust won't sink the team, or a proven veteran who can lead the team. I'd never wan't Trent Dilfer. I'd never want Matt Leinart either. I want Drew Bledsoe, or Drew Brees, or Kerry Collins. Guys some other team took the chance on developing, and we can reap the benefits. Instead of throwing away a high draft pick on some parasite that may never depelop into anything and cost our franchise 3-4 years of progress. Like what has happened to most teams that have chosen to draft a QB in the 1st round.Then you should enjoy this year.

None of our 3 QBs are strangling the cap.

Mark my words though, we will fear Eli Manning for many years despite his price because QB play matters more than any other position when it comes to winning.

[Hostile]

I absolutely agree here.

I was a kid for Staubach and not a stats geek like now but I remembered all those nights I couldnt sleep because my heart was beating out of its chest after another Cowboys comeback against the Skins usually on Monday night.

I looked up Staubachs stats one day out of curiousty and the guy was incredible in his TD to INT ratio. For a guy who took so many Favre-like chances for big plays I was amazed his TD-INT ratio WAS BETTER THAN Aikman's. WOW!!

Staubach was magical. Still is in fact. I pray he runs for President soon.He was my first hero and I doubt anyone will ever ascend his throne. Magical is exactly right. He was the epitome of elite QB. Dan marino, Steve Young, and John Elway all admitted he was their hero and who they patterned their games after. He gave 5 years of the prime of his career to the Armed Forces. His stats might have been off the charts other wise and they are already amazing.

[Justis]

Then you should enjoy this year.

None of our 3 QBs are strangling the cap.

Mark my words though, we will fear Eli Manning for many years despite his price because QB play matters more than any other position when it comes to winning. Fear? Nah... respect perhaps. The Giants have given away two drafts for this guy, and clearly they suffer on defense, maybe we can have a few shootouts with this guy, but fear? Your living in the past man, (not the good past) you need to get your fangs back, the Boys' are fixing to be predators in the league again. No fear from us, for us perhaps.

[jterrell]

When did I say I hate Drew Bledsoe JT? I do say I like developing young QBs over other team's retreads.

I'm behind Bledsoe 100%. I am also pretty excited about the potential for the future.

I argued just 1st rounders as that was the subject of this thread, but I have addressed Staubach, Montana, and Brady as elite QBs. I don't consider Plunkett elite despite the 2 SB wins, yet he was the overall #1 and a Heisman winner.

I stayed within the topic of the thread. Other wise I would have added a lot more.
Now you are arguing with yourself.

I never said you hate Bledsoe. I said based on your argument for liking Henson (i.e. first overall picks) Bledsoe is a better fit logically as a number 1 overall, proven franchise guy. Now you have changed that argument apparently to denigrate Bledsoe as a retread which is true but also probably a foolish football move on behalf of the Bills. When he went to Buffalo he went for a very nice trade cache so not exactly retreading at that point. Not anymore than Steve Young or John Elway anyways.

Retreads are what seems to be going to Super Bowls nowadays. Delhomme, Dilfer, Collins, Warner, even Favre. McNair made 1 SB and McNabb has as well. So the "running QBs" are the only true franchise non-retread 1st rounders to go to the Super Bowl in recent history. Even with Elway you had a guy at the very end who was really a retread on his own team in changed styles. And you point out Aikman who was undoubtedly great but filled a bus driver role as well as anyone in history. He stuck to the script passing to Irvin and handing it to Emmitt.

[jterrell]

He was my first hero and I doubt anyone will ever ascend his throne. Magical is exactly right. He was the epitome of elite QB. Dan marino, Steve Young, and John Elway all admitted he was their hero and who they patterned their games after. He gave 5 years of the prime of his career to the Armed Forces. His stats might have been off the charts other wise and they are already amazing.

staubach


some hot chicks
everyone else



redskins fans, eagles fans, the devil, 49er fans, osama bin laden

[Hostile]

Fear? Nah... respect perhaps. The Giants have given away two drafts for this guy, and clearly they suffer on defense, maybe we can have a few shootouts with this guy, but fear? Your living in the past man, (not the good past) you need to get your fangs back, the Boys' are fixing to be predators in the league again. No fear from us, for us perhaps.I'm not hung up on the difference between fear and respect.

It's cool.

[Hostile]

Now you are arguing with yourself.

I never said you hate Bledsoe. I said based on your argument for liking Henson (i.e. first overall picks) Bledsoe is a better fit logically as a number 1 overall, proven franchise guy. Now you have changed that argument apparently to denigrate Bledsoe as a retread which is true but also probably a foolish football move on behalf of the Bills. When he went to Buffalo he went for a very nice trade cache so not exactly retreading at that point. Not anymore than Steve Young or John Elway anyways.

Retreads are what seems to be going to Super Bowls nowadays. Delhomme, Dilfer, Collins, Warner, even Favre. McNair made 1 SB and McNabb has as well. So the "running QBs" are the only true franchise non-retread 1st rounders to go to the Super Bowl in recent history. Even with Elway you had a guy at the very end who was really a retread on his own team in changed styles. And you point out Aikman who was undoubtedly great but filled a bus driver role as well as anyone in history. He stuck to the script passing to Irvin and handing it to Emmitt.I do not agree that Aikman was a bus driver. I never will.

I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to Bledsoe and Henson. If you remember I wanted us to get Collins when he was available. I don't hate retreads. I just said if we can develop Henson to reach his potential I am going to love it because he is basically ours. He's never really belonged to anyone else.

Elway was not a retread.

[jterrell]

I do not agree that Aikman was a bus driver. I never will.

I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to Bledsoe and Henson. If you remember I wanted us to get Collins when he was available. I don't hate retreads. I just said if we can develop Henson to reach his potential I am going to love it because he is basically ours. He's never really belonged to anyone else.

Elway was not a retread.

Henson has belonged to both the New York Yankees and the Houston Texans since he left college. I wouldn't call him a retread but he is not a traditional 1st round franchise guy by any means. He has what 5 seasons of professional sports under his belt yet has started 1 NFL game? Drew Bledsoe had taken his team to a Super Bowl by then.

Elway himself admits he was no where near the QB he had been when they won those titles. He was gray-headed and playing within himself and the confines of the offense.

The problem with the term bus driver is everyone wants to create their own definition so it becomes a completely sematical argument.

Troy Aikman was efficient but calculated. He stayed within the offense at all times and relied on execution not superior play to win games. He seldom passed for high yardage totals or produced comeback wins. He had a fine bus to drive and he drove it to the promised land. There was little chance Aikman would ever lose a game where he had the best team or raise a team on his own when they were inferior. IMHO thats the perfect definiton of a bus driver. And I think Aikman was the best in the modern history of the game.

[Hostile]

Henson has belonged to both the New York Yankees and the Houston Texans since he left college. I wouldn't call him a retread but he is not a traditional 1st round franchise guy by any means. He has what 5 seasons of professional sports under his belt yet has started 1 NFL game? Drew Bledsoe had taken his team to a Super Bowl by then.

Elway himself admits he was no where near the QB he had been when they won those titles. He was gray-headed and playing within himself and the confines of the offense.

The problem with the term bus driver is everyone wants to create their own definition so it becomes a completely sematical argument.

Troy Aikman was efficient but calculated. He stayed within the offense at all times and relied on execution not superior play to win games. He seldom passed for high yardage totals or produced comeback wins. He had a fine bus to drive and he drove it to the promised land. There was little chance Aikman would ever lose a game where he had the best team or raise a team on his own when they were inferior. IMHO thats the perfect definiton of a bus driver. And I think Aikman was the best in the modern history of the game.To me that is a chaffeur, not a bus driver.

Retread means belonged to someone else or paid their dues somewhere else. Elway was a Bronco even though he was drafted by Baltimore.

I haven't said Henson is traditional anything other than a player who was projected as the top overall pick and that I hope our coaching staff can develop that potential. That excites me. I love that kind of potential.

[JackMagist]

Even better, we could get him in the 3rd or 4th. Sporting News had a good tidbit about him saying he is more comfortable throwing than taking off and running. His only drawback is he is 5'11. I stll don't care, if we got him in the 3rd I'd be ecstatic.Who are you talking about being 5'11"? You were responding to a post about Vince Young (the one from Texas I assume) and he is 6'5" not 5'11".

Vince Young #10
Height: 6-5
Weight: 233
Class: Jr.-2L
Hometown: Houston, TX (Madison)

Not that I am particularly enamored with him personally but he does have a cannon for an arm and he has the prototype size. I think he does depend on his own playmaking ability in running the ball too much and I have seen him throw some passes that were way off the mark. But size is NOT a problem with him.

[fancow]

You're 40, but have to ask who our best QB ever is?

:omg:

Actually I am 40 but the pain of losing to Aikman is alot more recent :)

I was too young then. So with Staubach I don't really remember how good he was. I just remember the excitement of the rivalry and the games.

Just curious because I have no idea. What are Aikman -vs- Staubach stats?

Years Played, Superbowls won/lost, passing stats? Anyone know?

[jterrell]

Actually I am 40 but the pain of losing to Aikman is alot more recent :)

I was too young then. So with Staubach I don't really remember how good he was. I just remember the excitement of the rivalry and the games.

Just curious because I have no idea. What are Aikman -vs- Staubach stats?

Years Played, Superbowls won/lost, passing stats? Anyone know?


Really the most notable stat is the fantasy stats as the bottom. Staubach was a top 5 QB in fantasy world 8 out of 9 seasons which means he was producing yards and touchdown passes at amongst the highest rates in the NFL.

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1969 dal | 6 | 23 47 48.9 421 9.0 1 2 | 15 60 1 |
| 1970 dal | 8 | 44 82 53.7 542 6.6 2 8 | 27 221 0 |
| 1971 dal | 13 | 126 211 59.7 1882 8.9 15 4 | 41 343 2 |
| 1972 dal | 4 | 9 20 45.0 98 4.9 0 2 | 6 45 0 |
| 1973 dal | 14 | 179 286 62.6 2428 8.5 23 15 | 46 250 3 |
| 1974 dal | 14 | 190 360 52.8 2552 7.1 11 15 | 47 320 3 |
| 1975 dal | 13 | 198 348 56.9 2666 7.7 17 16 | 55 316 4 |
| 1976 dal | 14 | 208 369 56.4 2715 7.4 14 11 | 43 184 3 |
| 1977 dal | 14 | 210 361 58.2 2620 7.3 18 9 | 51 171 3 |
| 1978 dal | 15 | 231 413 55.9 3190 7.7 25 16 | 42 182 1 |
| 1979 dal | 16 | 267 461 57.9 3586 7.8 27 11 | 37 172 0 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| TOTAL | 131 | 1685 2958 57.0 22700 7.7 153 109 | 410 2264 20 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+


Seasons among the league's top 10
Pass attempts: 1973-8, 1974-3, 1975-5, 1976-4, 1977-3, 1978-6, 1979-8
Completions: 1973-4t, 1974-6, 1975-4, 1976-3t, 1977-3, 1978-6, 1979-8
Passing yards: 1973-4t, 1974-4, 1975-3, 1976-5, 1977-3, 1978-4, 1979-7
Passing TDs: 1971-8t, 1973-1t, 1974-10t, 1975-8, 1976-9t, 1977-3t, 1978-2t, 1979-3
Adjusted yards per pass: 1971-1, 1973-2, 1974-9, 1975-5, 1976-7, 1977-2, 1978-1, 1979-1

Roger Staubach is not in the all-time top 50 in any major category.


Postseason data
Please read this fine print before using this data or sending questions or corrections. In particular, note that postseason data is currently available only for the years 1975-2003, so this player's entire postseason career might not be shown here.

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
1975 min W,17-14 | 17 29 256 1 0 | 7 24 0
1975 ram W,37-7 | 16 26 220 4 1 | 7 54 0
*1975 pit L,17-21 | 15 24 204 2 3 | 5 22 0
1976 ram L,12-14 | 15 37 150 0 3 | 2 8 0
1977 chi W,37-7 | 8 13 134 1 1 | 4 25 0
1977 min W,23-6 | 12 23 165 1 1 | 4 4 0
*1977 den W,27-10 | 17 25 183 1 0 | 3 6 0
1978 atl W,27-20 | 7 17 105 0 0 | 1 3 0
1978 ram W,28-0 | 13 25 126 2 2 | 3 7 0
*1978 pit L,31-35 | 17 30 228 3 1 | 4 37 0
1979 ram L,19-21 | 13 28 150 1 1 | 1 3 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 150 277 1921 16 13 | 41 193 0


* - Super Bowl

Fantasy Football Data
Explanation

Year Value Pos. Rank Overall Rank
--------------------------------------------------
1970 0 36 350
1971 61 5 14
1972 0 49 360
1973 106 2 7
1974 78 5 12
1975 100 3 8
1976 58 5 22
1977 91 1 6
1978 87 2 4
1979 64 3 17
--------------------------------------------------
644

[Sarge]

Marcus ....Vick...Book it!

In the first round????

What are you smoking?

[Hostile]

Actually I am 40 but the pain of losing to Aikman is alot more recent :)

I was too young then. So with Staubach I don't really remember how good he was. I just remember the excitement of the rivalry and the games.

Just curious because I have no idea. What are Aikman -vs- Staubach stats?

Years Played, Superbowls won/lost, passing stats? Anyone know?I don't really do stats because I think you can skew them in too many ways.

A wise old cowboy once told me that liars figure and figures lie.

An example would be a comparison of Vinny Testaverde's stats to Troy Aikman's. Looking at them you'd think Vinny was a better QB. Not on his best day and troy's worst.

Comparing Staubach and Aikman by their stats is worthless.

Lastly you need not ask if anyone knows their stats. Trust me, we all know. This is our area.

[jterrell]

I don't really do stats because I think you can skew them in too many ways.

A wise old cowboy once told me that liars figure and figures lie.

An example would be a comparison of Vinny Testaverde's stats to Troy Aikman's. Looking at them you'd think Vinny was a better QB. Not on his best day and troy's worst.

Comparing Staubach and Aikman by their stats is worthless.

Lastly you need not ask if anyone knows their stats. Trust me, we all know. This is our area.
When judged as a whole VT's stats are no where near Aikman's. Stats dont lie, people do. Stats are often misrepresented but it doesn't make them scary or meaningless. There are foxes and hedgehogs. I am a hedgehog. I think we debate so strongly because you are a fox. And dont take that as an insult, most of the world's greatest thinkers have been foxes including Plato who undoubtedly would hate stats. :)


What Aikman has that is really only challenged by Montana or Young is his post season work. At one point Aikman had 23 TD passes and 10 INTs. WOW!!! He also holds records for highest passer rating over a playoff season. And the pesky little Super Bowl MVP thing that Vinny might get if he plays 100 years and all the other players on the field get injured:

Postseason data
Please read this fine print before using this data or sending questions or corrections.

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
1991 det L,6-38 | 11 16 114 0 1 | 2 0 0
1992 phi W,34-10 | 15 25 200 2 0 | 3 13 0
1992 sfo W,30-20 | 24 34 322 2 0 | 3 -3 0
*1992 buf W,52-17 | 22 30 273 4 0 | 3 28 0
1993 gnb W,27-17 | 28 37 302 3 2 | 3 0 0
1993 sfo W,38-21 | 14 18 177 3 0 | 3 25 0
*1993 buf W,30-13 | 19 27 207 0 1 | 1 3 0
1994 gnb W,35-9 | 23 30 337 2 1 | 1 2 0
1994 sfo L,28-38 | 30 53 380 2 3 | 1 9 0
1995 phi W,30-11 | 17 24 253 1 1 | 1 3 0
1995 gnb W,38-27 | 21 33 255 2 0 | 3 6 0
*1995 pit W,27-17 | 15 23 209 1 0 | 4 -3 0
1996 min W,40-15 | 19 29 178 0 1 | 2 4 1
1996 car L,17-26 | 18 36 165 1 3 | 1 0 0
1998 ari L,7-20 | 22 49 191 1 3 | 1 0 0
1999 min L,10-27 | 22 38 286 0 1 | 0 0 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 320 502 3849 24 17 | 32 87 1

[Hostile]

When judged as a whole VT's stats are no where near Aikman's. Stats dont lie, people do. Stats are often misrepresented but it doesn't make them scary or meaningless. There are foxes and hedgehogs. I am a hedgehog. I think we debate so strongly because you are a fox. And dont take that as an insult, most of the world's greatest thinkers have been foxes including Plato who undoubtedly would hate stats. :)


What Aikman has that is really only challenged by Montana or Young is his post season work. At one point Aikman had 23 TD passes and 10 INTs. WOW!!! He also holds records for highest passer rating over a playoff season. And the pesky little Super Bowl MVP thing that Vinny might get if he plays 100 years and all the other players on the field get injured:

Postseason data
Please read this fine print before using this data or sending questions or corrections.

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
1991 det L,6-38 | 11 16 114 0 1 | 2 0 0
1992 phi W,34-10 | 15 25 200 2 0 | 3 13 0
1992 sfo W,30-20 | 24 34 322 2 0 | 3 -3 0
*1992 buf W,52-17 | 22 30 273 4 0 | 3 28 0
1993 gnb W,27-17 | 28 37 302 3 2 | 3 0 0
1993 sfo W,38-21 | 14 18 177 3 0 | 3 25 0
*1993 buf W,30-13 | 19 27 207 0 1 | 1 3 0
1994 gnb W,35-9 | 23 30 337 2 1 | 1 2 0
1994 sfo L,28-38 | 30 53 380 2 3 | 1 9 0
1995 phi W,30-11 | 17 24 253 1 1 | 1 3 0
1995 gnb W,38-27 | 21 33 255 2 0 | 3 6 0
*1995 pit W,27-17 | 15 23 209 1 0 | 4 -3 0
1996 min W,40-15 | 19 29 178 0 1 | 2 4 1
1996 car L,17-26 | 18 36 165 1 3 | 1 0 0
1998 ari L,7-20 | 22 49 191 1 3 | 1 0 0
1999 min L,10-27 | 22 38 286 0 1 | 0 0 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 320 502 3849 24 17 | 32 87 1JT, you're too smart to be that naive as to think that someone can't take stats and skew them. It happens all the time.

[Galian Beast]

1: Round in which the six highest-rated passers in the NFL all were drafted


Top 6 passers right now were all drafted in the first round. Coincidence? Obviously not, people may point to teams like the Ravens who won the superbowl with Dilfer, or Brady a 6th round pick. But for the most part if you want a qb with big time potential it has to be done in the first. It's a risky move, but sometimes you have to have the balls to make the move, that's been put off for far too long.

The reason why we would need to do this in 2006 is this: the rookie qb needs to sit one year or possibly even 2 max, before they can be a starter, and usually breakout in the 3rd year. If we draft a qb in 2006, Bledsoe will still definitely be the starter, and whoever we get (probably in mid to late first round) would have no pressure on him to do anything. Depending on how well Bledsoe played and how well the rookie was progressing, Bledsoe could even end up starting in 2007.

The time is perfect to select a young qb.
1)We've got the luxury of a sure starter for once in a really long time with Bledsoe.
2) we've got a defense that is on the verge of breakout, and has a lot of young guys who are starters/future starters.
3) we've got one of the best Running games in the league, JJ is a workhorse beast, and imo TT and Barber will be very good backs after they get more game time.
4) Bledsoe is a nice guy who is actually willing to teach a young guy things, similar to the way Rivera is. Bledsoe wouldnt be too arrogant or scared of losing his job too mentor the young guy. and Bledsoe would be at the end of a very good possibly HOF career and would really have nothing left to prove besides maybe a super bowl.
5) great coach with a keen eye for scouting. If we did draft a qb in the first round, odds are Parcells would choose the right one.
6) Henson is already 3rd on the depth chart, and with his relatively cheap contract, we could keep him on the team for the next couple years at a low cost, without having to cut Bledsoe or the rookie.
7) Dallas has the potential to be a super bowl contender in the next few years, and with Bledsoe at the end of his career we would need a big time qb capable of taking us all the way to the promised land.
8) we wouldnt be taking a QB #1 overall so the contract would be immensely smaller compared to an Alex Smith or Rivers type contract. Our pick next year is going to be from 15-32 most likely somewhere in the 20's. We could get a very good quality qb and still be able to keep henson.
9) This coming year should be a pretty good overall group of QB's. Besides the obvious franchise qb of leinart, Omar Jacobs will probably come out, Quinn could come out, Vince Young might, Reggie McNeal, and a few others who could shoot up depending on this college season.
10) last reason is, what would the cowboys be without their usual Franchise QB. we've got the trademark big play RB with JJ in now. We need our trademark QB to get Dallas back to the superbowl.

It is fine and dandy to look at the succesful players drafted in round 1. But why don't you look at the flops too?

We have Henson, he is our future qb, deal with it.

We're a couple catalytic players away from being the best team in the nfl. We don't waste a first rounder on a quarterback.

[TruBlueCowboy]

I make no bones about being a QB elitest. You want to accuse me of it? I plead guilty.

Consider this list I have submitted before. This is the Super Bowl winning and losing QBs and where they were drafted.

SB I
Bart Starr...17th round
Len Dawson...1st round (5th overall)

SB II
Bart Starr...17th round
Daryle Lamonica...12th round

SB III
Joe Namath...1st round (Overall #1)
Johnny Unitas...9th round

SB IV
Len Dawson...1st round (5th overall)
Joe Kapp...18th round

SB V
Earl Morrall...1st round (2nd overall)
Roger Staubach...10th round

SB VI
Roger Staubach...10th round
Bob Griese...1st round (4th overall)

SB VII
Bob Griese...1st round (4th overall)
Billy Kilmer...1st round (11th overall)

SB VIII
Bob Griese...1st round (4th overall)
Fran Tarkenton...3rd round

SB IX
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Fran Tarkenton...3rd round

SB X
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Roger Staubach...10th round

SB XI
Ken Stabler...2nd round
Fran Tarkenton...3rd round

SB XII
Roger Staubach...10th round
Craig Morton...1st round (5th overall)

SB XIII
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Roger Staubach...10th round

SB XIV
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Vince Ferragamo...4th round

SB XV
Jim Plunkett...1st round (Overall #1)
Ron Jaworski...2nd round

SB XVI
Joe Montana...3rd round
Ken Anderson...3rd round

SB XVII
Joe Theisman...4th round
David Woodley...8th round

SB XVIII
Jim Plunkett...1st round (Overall #1)
Joe Theisman...4th round

SB XIX
Joe Montana...3rd round
Dan Marino...1st round (27th overall)

SB XX
Jim McMahon...1st round (5th overall)
Steve Grogan...5th round

SB XXI
Phil Simms...1st round (7th overall)
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXII
Doug Williams...1st round (17th overall)
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXIII
Joe Montana...3rd round
Norman Esiason...2nd round

SB XXIV
Joe Montana...3rd round
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXV
Jeff Hostetler...3rd round
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVI
Mark Rypien...6th round
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVII
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVIII
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXIX
Steve Young...1st round (Overall #1) ***USFL***
Stan Humphries...6th round

SB XXX
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Neil O'Donnell...3rd round

SB XXXI
Brett Favre...2nd round
Drew Bledsoe...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXXII
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)
Brett Favre...2nd round

SB XXXIII
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)
Chris Chandler...3rd round

SB XXXIV
Kurt Warner...undrafted
Steve McNair...1st round (3rd overall)

SB XXXV
Trent Dilfer...1st round (6th overall)
Kerry Collins...1st round (5th overall)

SB XXXVI
Tom Brady...6th round
Kurt Warner...undrafted

SB XXXVII
Brad Johnson...4th round
Rich Gannon...9th round

SB XXXVIII
Tom Brady...6th round
Jake Delhomme...undrafted

SB XXXIX
Tom Brady...6th round
Donovan McNabb...1st round (2nd overall)

Okay, by my math there are 39 Super Bowl winning QBs and 78 Super Bowl QBs. There was something weird about Seve Young's draft history. Tampa had his rights. He was overall #1 by the USFL but an NFL site I used listed him as a 1st. I'm using him, because he had that kind of talent.

21 of the 39 Winners were 1st rounders. That's 54% of the time the winning QB is a 1st rounder.

37 of the 78 who have led their team to the game. That's 47% of the time a QB plays in the Super Bowl he is a 1st rounder.

12 of the 39 Super Bowls have been won by the overall #1 pick of a draft. That is 31% of the time.

29 of the 78 Super Bowl QBs were drafted in the top 10 of their drafts. That's 37%.

This is why I am a QB elitest. Can you win without an elite QB? Sure you can. I like the odds better of winning one, or more importantly, more than 1, with an elite QB.

I'd also like to say that had Roger Staubach not gone to the Navy he would have been a top 10 pick, likely overall #1 and these numbers go up.

This is why I like Drew Henson so much. I know there are guys here who do not like to hear it but he was being projected as the overall #1 before he opted to go play baseball. I hope our Coaching staff can tap into that talent. If they can't, how sad.


Nice stat. :cool:

[Galian Beast]

Can someone get a stat on how many qbs have been drafted in the first round? And what percentage of them went on to win a superbowl?

[Justis]

It is fine and dandy to look at the succesful players drafted in round 1. But why don't you look at the flops too?

We have Henson, he is our future qb, deal with it.

We're a couple catalytic players away from being the best team in the nfl. We don't waste a first rounder on a quarterback. There is no QB of the future, there is Bledsoe, and that's all we know. I think pinning the franchise on any player is the first mistake a team can make. This is a team sport, and there is no golden boy who can make it all better. I honestly would like to pick up good veteran's until the new collective bargaining agreement starts that will reduce rookie salaries.

[jterrell]

JT, you're too smart to be that naive as to think that someone can't take stats and skew them. It happens all the time.
Of course they can bro but it usually takes about 2 ounces of common sense to prove why they were playing lose and fast using their own stats as a basis for the argument.

See what happens when folks argue with Adamjt's stats as an example.

[Hiero]

It is fine and dandy to look at the succesful players drafted in round 1. But why don't you look at the flops too?

We have Henson, he is our future qb, deal with it.

We're a couple catalytic players away from being the best team in the nfl. We don't waste a first rounder on a quarterback.
wow we beat the chargers and 49ers and now were a couple players away from being the best team in the league? wow. How do we know Henson is anything? He hasnt even shown any flashes, the guy has to show something good to keep him around forever, without bringing in any competition. He hasnt been Volek where he rides the pine, but has had some actual good statistical games. Henson hasnt shown a damn thing, and you want to risk the future of the dallas cowboys on this guy?

[jterrell]

Can someone get a stat on how many qbs have been drafted in the first round? And what percentage of them went on to win a superbowl?

Since 1990 37 QBs have been taken in round 1. Of those 37 5 have been to a single Super Bowl if my math is correct. NONE have been to more than 1. NONE. And of those 5 they have 1 Super Bowl win(on a team possessing whats considered a top 3 all time defense) I believe. That makes the last 1st rounder to go to multiple super bowls and earn more than a single win----- Troy Aikman.


Year No. Round Pick Player Name Team College
2005 1 1 1 1 Alex D. Smith 49ers Utah
2 1 24 24 Aaron Rodgers Packers California
3 1 25 25 Jason Campbell Redskins Auburn

2004 1 1 1 1 Eli Manning Chargers Mississippi
2 1 4 4 Philip Rivers Giants North Carolina State
3 1 11 11 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers Miami (OH)
4 1 22 22 J.P. Losman Bills Tulane

2003 1 1 1 1 Carson Palmer Bengals USC
2 1 7 7 Byron Leftwich Jaguars Marshall
3 1 19 19 Kyle Boller Ravens California
4 1 22 22 Rex Grossman Bears Florida

2002 1 1 1 1 David Carr Texans Fresno State
2 1 3 3 Joey Harrington Lions Oregon
3 1 32 32 Patrick Ramsey Redskins Tulane

2001 1 1 1 1 Michael Vick Falcons Virginia Tech

2000 1 1 18 18 Chad Pennington Jets Marshall

1999 1 1 1 1 Tim Couch Browns Kentucky
2 1 2 2 Donovan McNabb Eagles Syracuse
3 1 3 3 Akili Smith Bengals Oregon
4 1 11 11 Daunte Culpepper Vikings Central Florida
5 1 12 12 Cade McNown Bears UCLA

1998 1 1 1 1 Peyton Manning Colts Tennessee
2 1 2 2 Ryan Leaf Chargers Washington State

1997 1 1 26 26 Jim Druckenmiller 49ers Virginia Tech
1996

1995 1 1 3 3 Steve McNair Oilers Alcorn State
2 1 5 5 Kerry Collins Panthers Penn State

1994 1 1 3 3 Heath Shuler Redskins Tennessee
2 1 6 6 Trent Dilfer Buccaneers Fresno State

1993 1 1 1 1 Drew Bledsoe Patriots Washington State
2 1 2 2 Rick Mirer Seahawks Notre Dame

1992s 1 1 0 0 Dave Brown Giants Duke
1992 1 1 6 6 David Klingler Bengals Houston
2 1 25 25 Tommy Maddox Broncos UCLA

1991 1 1 16 16 Dan McGwire Seahawks San Diego State
2 1 24 24 Todd Marinovich Raiders USC

1990 1 1 1 1 Jeff George Colts Illinois
2 1 7 7 Andre Ware Lions Houston

[Hiero]

wow after seeing chris leak for the first time live, the guy seems absolutely freakin clueless. not only has he been horribly inaccurate, he threw a 5 yard pass to the middle TWICE with 40 seconds left in the half one of which should have been an INT. Will definitely be a later round pick.

[Teague31]

no way we draft a QB in round 1 next year- bledsoe is good for another 2 years after this one. We have more pressing needs... FS, LB, DT, WR, FB.

[gbrittain]

Stick with current SB Champs.

YAWN

It's not about the qb.....

Uh...Ok.

Brady may have been a 6th round pick but he #1 or #2 QB in the league without question.

[gbrittain]

Who was their QB KID?

Uh it wasn't a HOF'er.

Brady a first rounder son? UH NO.

Rams QB? HOF'er? NO.

Bring it if you have it....but don't sweat me with no facts...

How is this for facts.

7 out of the last 8 #1 picks in the NFL draft have been...drum roll...you guessed it QBs.

BTW after Leinart gets drafted #1 overall next year, you can make that 8 out of the last 9 overall #1 picks being a QB.

Mind you, we are not talking about fantasy football here. These are real GMs that year after year after year keep searching for that elite #1 QB.

Why you must ask? Well, because a GM knows if they can nail that spot down there chances of being a perrenial contender are really good.

[Paniolo22]

Who are you talking about being 5'11"? You were responding to a post about Vince Young (the one from Texas I assume) and he is 6'5" not 5'11".

Vince Young #10
Height: 6-5
Weight: 233
Class: Jr.-2L
Hometown: Houston, TX (Madison)

Not that I am particularly enamored with him personally but he does have a cannon for an arm and he has the prototype size. I think he does depend on his own playmaking ability in running the ball too much and I have seen him throw some passes that were way off the mark. But size is NOT a problem with him.
Was discussing Marcus Vick, not Young. Thanks for the info though :rolleyes:

[Paniolo22]

In the first round????

What are you smoking?
Keep reading the post Sarge, I was looking 3rd or 4th round. Thanks though, the Hawaii smokes are prime!!!

[dwmyers]

Uh I am 40, I saw staubach.

Who would you prefer in todays nfl? aikman or staubach?

I would go with theisman :)

Theisman, the CFL great? give me a break ;)

Sorry, but as Skins QBs go, I'd rather have Sonny Jurgenson in his prime.

Staubach > Aikman, Staubach managed games better and was more mobile.

[Justis]

Theisman, the CFL great? give me a break ;)

Sorry, but as Skins QBs go, I'd rather have Sonny Jurgenson in his prime.

Staubch > Aikman, Stauback managed games better and was more mobile. Sonny Jurgenson, bah. I'd go with Slingin' Sammy Baugh.

[dwmyers]

Sonny Jurgenson, bah. I'd go with Slingin' Sammy Baugh.

Hard to know how good his passing would be in the modern age, but at least you could fill both P and QB with the same guy.

;)

[Justis]

Hard to know how good his passing would be in the modern age, but at least you could fill both P and QB with the same guy.

;) He'd have to be great, he threw around that watermelon that some fool decided to call a football just fine.

[Hostile]

How is this for facts.

7 out of the last 8 #1 picks in the NFL draft have been...drum roll...you guessed it QBs.

BTW after Leinart gets drafted #1 overall next year, you can make that 8 out of the last 9 overall #1 picks being a QB.

Mind you, we are not talking about fantasy football here. These are real GMs that year after year after year keep searching for that elite #1 QB.

Why you must ask? Well, because a GM knows if they can nail that spot down there chances of being a perrenial contender are really good.I tell you this all the time, post more.

The point I am making is perenial contender. If you have one of those QBs you have a shot at that. From there the pieces just need to fit and work together. For all the whining about how much cap space these QBs eat up I don't see it crippling their teams. Hell, the Eagles are as much under the cap as we are.

[Justis]

I tell you this all the time, post more.

The point I am making is perenial contender. If you have one of those QBs you have a shot at that. From there the pieces just need to fit and work together. For all the whining about how much cap space these QBs eat up I don't see it crippling their teams. Hell, the Eagles are as much under the cap as we are. The Eagles are a hard-nosed organization who pretty much pay Owens and Mcnabb, and that's about it. You wonder why they drop franchise tags? I don't know the numbers but I imagine that there are only a handful of players on that team that make more than a million a year. There have been perenial playoff teams that didn't have a prototypical 1st round QB and did just fine. See: Ravens of 2000-2003, Bucs of the late 90s into 2002, Vikings of the late 90s.

[Hostile]

The Eagles are a hard-nosed organization who pretty much pay Owens and Mcnabb, and that's about it. You wonder why they drop franchise tags? I don't know the numbers but I imagine that there are only a handful of players on that team that make more than a million a year. There have been perenial playoff teams that didn't have a prototypical 1st round QB and did just fine. See: Ravens of 2000-2003, Bucs of the late 90s into 2002, Vikings of the late 90s.I need to look up the 12 highest paid QBs in the NFL just for fun. See how many of them are the playoff QBs this year. I bet the % is pretty eye opening...for some.

:wink2:

[Nors]

Player Search Results
Your search returned the following 5 players. Please narrow your search criteria by selecting a team or a position if the player you were searching for does not appear on the list.:

Name
Position
Team
Compensation

Brees, Drew QB San Diego Chargers 8078000.00
Favre, Brett QB Green Bay Packers 6500000.00
Carr, David QB Houston Texans 5500000.00
Brooks, Aaron QB New Orleans Saints 5500000.00
Harrington, John Joseph QB Detroit Lions 4950000.00
Green, Trent QB Kansas City Chiefs 4700000.00
McNabb, Donovan QB Philadelphia Eagles 4000000.00
Palmer, Carson QB Cincinnati Bengals 3750000.00
Hasselbeck, Matt QB Seattle Seahawks 2000000.00
Bledsoe, Drew QB Dallas Cowboys 2000000.00
Warner, Kurt QB Arizona Cardinals 2000000.00
Boller, Kyle QB Baltimore Ravens 1470000.00
McCown, Josh QB Arizona Cardinals 1430000.00
Weinke, Christopher QB Carolina Panthers 1200000.00
Rattay, Tim QB San Francisco 49ers 1193750.00



This does not factor in SB - HERE ARE SALARIES

[gbrittain]

I tell you this all the time, post more.

The point I am making is perenial contender. If you have one of those QBs you have a shot at that. From there the pieces just need to fit and work together. For all the whining about how much cap space these QBs eat up I don't see it crippling their teams. Hell, the Eagles are as much under the cap as we are.

Thanks for the Kudos Hos. It means a lot coming from you.

Now you know what drives me nuts. There are those who try to downplay the importance of the QB by saying look at the B-More defense and the Superbowl they won.

That is right, comparing one single player to an entire unit.

I suppose there would be merit to this argumnet if you could hear Paul Tagliabue announce: "With the 1st overall selection in the 2006 draft, The Houston Texans select out of Alabama DEFENSE.

There is simply not a single player on the field more important to continuous success than the QB.

[Hostile]

Thanks for the Kudos Hos. It means a lot coming from you.

Now you know what drives me nuts. There are those who try to downplay the importance of the QB by saying look at the B-More defense and the Superbowl they won.

That is right, comparing one single player to an entire unit.

I suppose there would be merit to this argumnet if you could hear Paul Tagliabue announce: "With the 1st overall selection in the 2006 draft, The Houston Texans select out of Alabama DEFENSE.

There is simply not a single player on the field more important to continuous success than the QB.:bow:

:bravo:

Couldn't agree more. I say again that if our coaching staff can not bring out the potential in Drew Henson then it is really sad. They admit he has big time tools. Now develop them.

[Dallas31]

"Top 6 passers right now were all drafted in the first round. Coincidence? Obviously not, people may point to teams like the Ravens who won the superbowl with Dilfer, or Brady a 6th round pick. But for the most part if you want a qb with big time potential it has to be done in the first."

Dilfer was a top 10 pick in the 1st round of the draft.

[jay cee]

Henson has belonged to both the New York Yankees and the Houston Texans since he left college. I wouldn't call him a retread but he is not a traditional 1st round franchise guy by any means. He has what 5 seasons of professional sports under his belt yet has started 1 NFL game? Drew Bledsoe had taken his team to a Super Bowl by then.

Elway himself admits he was no where near the QB he had been when they won those titles. He was gray-headed and playing within himself and the confines of the offense.

The problem with the term bus driver is everyone wants to create their own definition so it becomes a completely sematical argument.

Troy Aikman was efficient but calculated. He stayed within the offense at all times and relied on execution not superior play to win games. He seldom passed for high yardage totals or produced comeback wins. He had a fine bus to drive and he drove it to the promised land. There was little chance Aikman would ever lose a game where he had the best team or raise a team on his own when they were inferior. IMHO thats the perfect definiton of a bus driver. And I think Aikman was the best in the modern history of the game.
Outstanding Post. I could not agree more. I would only add, and I am sure you agree, Aikman is deservedly a 1st ballot hall of famer.

Too many people think, saying that he played the game in the style that fits the bus driver description is an insult.

I don't, he was great when leading the better team. Just because he did not carry the team to victory when they were inferior does not mean that he was not an excellent player.

[Dallas31]

wow after seeing chris leak for the first time live, the guy seems absolutely freakin clueless. not only has he been horribly inaccurate, he threw a 5 yard pass to the middle TWICE with 40 seconds left in the half one of which should have been an INT. Will definitely be a later round pick.



I don't know why some people are so high on this kid.

The times I seem to watch him he flat out sucks.