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Draako
07-11-2004, 05:30 PM
I was just listening to these two ESPN NFL gurus. They both gave their opinions of the best running backs in the NFC East. They indicated Julius Jones is #4 amoung the all team's starting running backs. No arguments, when it comparing to Clinto Portis, but it is hard to gage JJ's capabilities at this stage. I believe JJ will surprise a lot of NFL Gurus. I will be the 1st to e-mail Mr. J. Clayton and his Cowboy-hating self. Clayton still will not letting go of our decision pass on Stephen Jackson. He failed to mention the 1st rounder that was gained in the decision. He's an idiot!!!

They (John & Sean) also rated the middle linebackers throughout the league. Our #1 Defense didn't even deserve a mention of Dat from these two idiots. They also said that Coakley's size lends to folks shying away from mentioning him with other outstanding linebackers, but were not hesitant to mention Zack Thomas. He was criticized of his size coming out of college, but proved the NFL Gurus wrong. Dat is in the same catagory. When healthy, Dat is arguably one of the top Middle linebackers. :mad:

If you folks want to listen to these guys: Every Sunday from 3:00 PM to 7:00 PM EST. : http://espnradio.espn.go.com/espnradio/show?showId=1604057#

What you think?

MichaelWinicki
07-11-2004, 05:34 PM
I was just listening to these two ESPN NFL gurus. They both gave their opinions of the best running backs in the NFC East. They indicated Julius Jones is #4 amoung the all team's starting running backs. No arguments, when it comparing to Clinto Portis, but it is hard to gage JJ's capabilities at this stage. I believe JJ will surprise a lot of NFL Gurus. I will be the 1st to e-mail Mr. J. Clayton and his Cowboy-hating self. Clayton still will not letting go of our decision pass on Stephen Jackson. He failed to mention the 1st rounder that was gained in the decision. He's an idiot!!!

They (John & Sean) also rated the middle linebackers throughout the league. Our #1 Defense didn't even deserve a mention of Dat from these two idiots. They also said that Coakley's size lends to folks shying away from mentioning him with other outstanding linebackers, but were not hesitant to mention Zack Thomas. He was criticized of his size coming out of college, but proved the NFL Gurus wrong. Dat is in the same catagory. When healthy, Dat is arguably one of the top Middle linebackers. :mad:

If you folks want to listen to these guys: Every Sunday from 3:00 PM to 7:00 PM EST. : http://espnradio.espn.go.com/espnradio/show?showId=1604057#

What you think?

You either love or hate the 'Boys. It's that simple. I guess it's good not to be "Vanilla".

NOVA 22
07-11-2004, 05:36 PM
so i assume tiki was above julius as well, but who was #4? - westbrook or buckhalter? westbrook was real exciting, but has had injury problems his whole career.

i've become more and more comfortable with the move to drop down, get Jones, and pick up a #1. do you know much better K. Jones and S. Jackson have to be than Julius to make this not worthwile?

jimmy40
07-11-2004, 05:37 PM
I was just listening to these two ESPN NFL gurus. They both gave their opinions of the best running backs in the NFC East. They indicated Julius Jones is #4 amoung the all team's starting running backs. No arguments, when it comparing to Clinto Portis, but it is hard to gage JJ's capabilities at this stage. I believe JJ will surprise a lot of NFL Gurus. I will be the 1st to e-mail Mr. J. Clayton and his Cowboy-hating self. Clayton still will not letting go of our decision pass on Stephen Jackson. He failed to mention the 1st rounder that was gained in the decision. He's an idiot!!!

They (John & Sean) also rated the middle linebackers throughout the league. Our #1 Defense didn't even deserve a mention of Dat from these two idiots. They also said that Coakley's size lends to folks shying away from mentioning him with other outstanding linebackers, but were not hesitant to mention Zack Thomas. He was criticized of his size coming out of college, but proved the NFL Gurus wrong. Dat is in the same catagory. When healthy, Dat is arguably one of the top Middle linebackers. :mad:

If you folks want to listen to these guys: Every Sunday from 3:00 PM to 7:00 PM EST. : http://espnradio.espn.go.com/espnradio/show?showId=1604057#

What you think?
They probably mentioned Zack because he's better.

LaTunaNostra
07-11-2004, 05:45 PM
What you think?

They rated J Jones the fourth starting tail in the league? And mentioned him in the same breath as Portis? Or mentioned JJ as the fourth best tail in this year's draft?

But left Dat out?

What I think is that only at ESPN could such nonsense be disseminated and the perps hold their jobs.

For at least two years now, Clayton's "sources" have gone as unreliable as Mortensen's. At this point, he reminds me of the tabloid seer Jeanne Dixon, who for years made 10,000 "predictions" on New Years Eve. The one that proved true the following Dec, 31st was trumpeted like Nostradamus.

Salisbury is just hateful, imo. Most of that ESPN crew peaked long ago (Irvin almost saved them, but it will take more than him), but at least they're good natured clowns (Boomer, Theisman, Golic, Hoge, Scott, even the once cogent Jaws they turned into a buffoon).

Salisbury, on the other hand, is sour and arrogant. I get the feeling he'd only be happy if everybody could somehow lose.

junk
07-11-2004, 06:23 PM
They rated J Jones the fourth starting tail in the league? And mentioned him in the same breath as Portis? Or mentioned JJ as the fourth best tail in this year's draft?



I think fourth best in the division, NFC East.

TruBlueCowboy
07-11-2004, 06:23 PM
I don't think rating Julius #4 is that bad. He's an unproven 2nd round rookie. The Philly backs get the benefit of the doubt because they've played in the NFL. Portis and Barber (even with his fumbles) are still better runners at this point than Jones. It's Julius' job to go out there and prove 'em wrong. Go get 'em Julius!

Cheap Shot Artist
07-11-2004, 06:32 PM
You either love or hate the 'Boys. It's that simple. I guess it's good not to be "Vanilla".

Hey Mike..

I love your sig pick and I was wondering...

with QC looking off to the right in the sig pick, it appears he ran a stop sign or light and is about to get us T-boned by another bus..

Draako
07-11-2004, 06:33 PM
so i assume tiki was above julius as well, but who was #4? - westbrook or buckhalter? westbrook was real exciting, but has had injury problems his whole career.

i've become more and more comfortable with the move to drop down, get Jones, and pick up a #1. do you know much better K. Jones and S. Jackson have to be than Julius to make this not worthwile?

They actually put both Westbrook & Buckhalter in front of JJ. Even fumblitis Tiki was rated higher. Rated in the NFC East only, not the entire league.
1. Portis
2. Westbrook / Buckhalter
3. Tiki Barber
4. JJ

They also indicated the NFC East is the most highly recognized coached division, but not the best. That honor goes to the AFC East.

jimmy40
07-11-2004, 06:44 PM
They actually put both Westbrook & Buckhalter in front of JJ. Even fumblitis Tiki was rated higher. Rated in the NFC East only, not the entire league.
1. Portis
2. Westbrook / Buckhalter
3. Tiki Barber
4. JJ

They also indicated the NFC East is the most highly recognized coached division, but not the best. That honor goes to the AFC East.
Maybe their ranked higher because they have actually carried the ball in the NFL.

BHendri5
07-11-2004, 06:47 PM
They rated J Jones the fourth starting tail in the league? And mentioned him in the same breath as Portis? Or mentioned JJ as the fourth best tail in this year's draft?

But left Dat out?

What I think is that only at ESPN could such nonsense be disseminated and the perps hold their jobs.

For at least two years now, Clayton's "sources" have gone as unreliable as Mortensen's. At this point, he reminds me of the tabloid seer Jeanne Dixon, who for years made 10,000 "predictions" on New Years Eve. The one that proved true the following Dec, 31st was trumpeted like Nostradamus.

Salisbury is just hateful, imo. Most of that ESPN crew peaked long ago (Irvin almost saved them, but it will take more than him), but at least they're good natured clowns (Boomer, Theisman, Golic, Hoge, Scott, even the once cogent Jaws they turned into a buffoon).

Salisbury, on the other hand, is sour and arrogant. I get the feeling he'd only be happy if everybody could somehow lose.


Salisbury is a bitter guy. he hates to see QBs do well, it makes him remember his sorry NFL career. For some reason he thinks he's a tough guy. At last season's TC when they did their rounds of TCs, someone said something in passing he got all huffed up like he wanted to fight, people laughed at him and kept on walking, it was funny to see him act like that.

Erik_H
07-11-2004, 08:08 PM
They also indicated the NFC East is the most highly recognized coached division, but not the best. That honor goes to the AFC East.

Seriously?

So Salsbury and Clayton said that "on the whole" the foursome of Belichek, Edwards, Wanny, and Mularkey are better than "Parcells, Gibbs, Coughlin and Reid?

Granted, you can make an argument that Belichek is the best coach of the 8. But even if you allow for that you're talking about a choice between the Best coach, & the 6th, 7th and 8th best out of eight --- or the second, third, fouth and fifth best out of eight.

I find the idea that anyone could even make an argument for that incomprehensible.

big dog cowboy
07-11-2004, 08:28 PM
ESPN will probably be heaping all kinds of praise on us next year during the draft with our 2#1's. In the meantime it will be business as usual...critizing the Cowboys for something.

LaTunaNostra
07-11-2004, 08:37 PM
Seriously?

So Salsbury and Clayton said that "on the whole" the foursome of Belichek, Edwards, Wanny, and Mularkey are better than "Parcells, Gibbs, Coughlin and Reid?

Granted, you can make an argument that Belichek is the best coach of the 8. But even if you allow for that you're talking about a choice between the Best coach, & the 6th, 7th and 8th best out of eight --- or the second, third, fouth and fifth best out of eight.

I find the idea that anyone could even make an argument for that incomprehensible.

Something must have gotten lost in the translation here.

Malarkey has done squat, Coach Edwards has a lot to prove, Wanny is blamed for presiding over an underachieving team, and Bill B alone even ranks in the top 16 coaches in the league, even if he is currently widely considered "number one".

It goes:

1. Parcells

No one else turn teams around so fast and so well, four of them now, most well rounded, teaches EVERY POSITION from returns on specials to oline techique to dback drills - the primo "teaching coach" in the NFL, perhaps the best motivator the NFL has ever had as his knowledge of psychology is tailored to each player, the ultimate "coaching up" leader, wins with less than other top coaches. Futire HOFer. Arguably the coach of his generation.

2. Belichick

Defensive "genius" who excels at game time adjustments. Learned motivation at the feet of the Master, always growing, never satisfied, now as competent an executive as a strategist, no longer micro manages, premier defensive mind in the game today, perfected bend don't break philosophy.)

3.Gibbs

Legendary offensive mind, innovative tactician, leadership personified, HOFer.

4. Reid.

An organizational wonder. Active mind which Mike Holmgen once referred to as a "sponge". Ambitious, knows the postitons inside and out. A "company man in the very best sense.

5. Coughlin

Also from the Parcells Tree. Nuts and bolts professional best suited to college or expansion teams, solid Xs and Os, attention to detail wins him games, "Parcells without the personality" is a bit of a misnomer, has a unique motivational syle.

6. Edwards

Rookie HC in 2001 entered NFL HC ranks with strong executive skills and motivational ability. Sound teacher of defensive technique. Learning the offensive side of the ball. Improving on clock management, game planning, etc but has a ways to go.

7. Wannstedt.

Top notch defensive strategist not best suited to head coaching.

9. Malarkey

Tom Donahoe's latest whipping boy. :D

MichaelWinicki
07-11-2004, 08:44 PM
Something must have gotten lost in the translation here.

Malarkey has done squat, Coach Edwards has a lot to prove, Wanny is blamed for presiding over an underachieving team, and Bill B alone even ranks in the top 16 coaches in the league, even if he is currently widely considered "number one".

It goes:

1. Parcells

No one else turn teams around so fast and so well, four of them now, most well rounded, teaches EVERY POSITION from returns on specials to oline techique to dback drills - the primo "teaching coach" in the NFL, perhaps the best motivator the NFL has ever had as his knowledge of psychology is tailored to each player, the ultimate "coaching up" leader, wins with less than other top coaches. Futire HOFer. Arguably the coach of his generation.

2. Belichick

Defensive "genius" who excels at game time adjustments. Learned motivation at the feet of the Master, always growing, never satisfied, now as competent an executive as a strategist, no longer micro manages, premier defensive mind in the game today, perfected bend don't break philosophy.)

3.Gibbs

Legendary offensive mind, innovative tactician, leadership personified, HOFer.

4. Reid.

An organizational wonder. Active mind which Mike Holmgen once referred to as a "sponge". Ambitious, knows the postitons inside and out. A "company man in the very best sense.

5. Coughlin

Also from the Parcells Tree. Nuts and bolts professional best suited to college or expansion teams, solid Xs and Os, attention to detail wins him games, "Parcells without the personality" is a bit of a misnomer, has a unique motivational syle.

6. Edwards

Rookie HC in 2001 entered NFL HC ranks with strong executive skills and motivational ability. Sound teacher of defensive technique. Learning the offensive side of the ball. Improving on clock management, game planning, etc but has a ways to go.

7. Wannstedt.

Top notch defensive strategist not best suited to head coaching.

9. Malarkey

Tom Donahoe's latest whipping boy. :D


Spot on Barb.

Very nice analysis.

Hostile
07-11-2004, 09:19 PM
They actually put both Westbrook & Buckhalter in front of JJ. Even fumblitis Tiki was rated higher. Rated in the NFC East only, not the entire league.
1. Portis
2. Westbrook / Buckhalter
3. Tiki Barber
4. JJ

They also indicated the NFC East is the most highly recognized coached division, but not the best. That honor goes to the AFC East.
I don't see what is so upsetting about this at this point. Once he is more than an unproven rookie he will move up the rankings. Unless he is a complete bust.

junk
07-11-2004, 09:47 PM
I don't see what is so upsetting about this at this point. Once he is more than an unproven rookie he will move up the rankings. Unless he is a complete bust.

Agreed. If Cowboys fans have doubts, shouldn't the rest of the NFL world. I hope he proves them wrong though

Hostile
07-11-2004, 09:49 PM
Agreed. If Cowboys fans have doubts, shouldn't the rest of the NFL world. I hope he proves them wrong though
It makes sense to me, but then so does accuracy in a QB. :rolleyes:

AJM1613
07-11-2004, 10:30 PM
I don't see what is so upsetting about this at this point. Once he is more than an unproven rookie he will move up the rankings. Unless he is a complete bust.
I don't think so. Barber is a good back and I really don't see Jones being better than him. I still think he will be a 4.0 1,100 yard back but Barber is a 4.5 1200 yard back.

trickblue
07-11-2004, 10:30 PM
I don't see what is so upsetting about this at this point. Once he is more than an unproven rookie he will move up the rankings. Unless he is a complete bust.

I'm with you in most respects... the fact of the matter is that these guys are looking for something to write... Portis good? yep... in the AFC West... and with an offense tailor-made for RB's...

J. Jones gets a knock at being too small... yet he is bigger and faster than Portis... Portis also has health issues... and he is coming to a division that is more physical up front than the AFC West...

Specualtion is just that... a guess... and only the season will prove or disprove any theory...

I am ready for training camp to get this crap over with...

As for Salisbury... he has no cred since the Superbowl when he said that that Patriot team would have beaten the '93 Cowboys... when Irvin called him on that, he said quote: "You need a drug test"... what a class guy...

AJM1613
07-11-2004, 10:35 PM
I'm with you in most respects... the fact of the matter is that these guys are looking for something to write... Portis good? yep... in the AFC West... and with an offense tailor-made for RB's...

J. Jones gets a knock at being too small... yet he is bigger and faster than Portis... Portis also has health issues... and he is coming to a division that is more physical up front than the AFC West...

Specualtion is just that... a guess... and only the season will prove or disprove any theory...

I am ready for training camp to get this crap over with...

As for Salisbury... he has no cred since the Superbowl when he said that that Patriot team would have beaten the '93 Cowboys... when Irvin called him on that, he said quote: "You need a drug test"... what a class guy...
Portis' difference of ypc and average opponent ypc is only .769. To put that in prospective, O. Smith’s (1.180; 5.4 ypc), Dunn’s (1.115; 5.4 ypc), Lewis’ (1.044; 5.3 ypc), Green’s (.950; 5.3 ypc) and Tomlinson’s (1.025; 5.3 ypc) ypc-oypc are all a lot greater and prove that Portis had a very easy ride last year.

guess who had the greatest ypc-oypc in the league last season.

Hostile
07-11-2004, 10:58 PM
I don't think so. Barber is a good back and I really don't see Jones being better than him. I still think he will be a 4.0 1,100 yard back but Barber is a 4.5 1200 yard back.
The fact of the matter is this, Julius could come out and be Rookie of the Year under Parcells if he is as good as some hope. There is no reason why he can't. That vaults him up the scale from the 4th spot no matter how young he is.

If he puts up 1200 yards rushing 300 receiving and 8 TDs and Tiki or Westbrook does the exact same thing, Julius will rank higher next year. The reason is simple, it will be a belief that he is a future star on the rise.

Next year he could be #1 in the NFC East but right now it is right that he is #4 because he has proven nothing.

AJM1613
07-11-2004, 11:09 PM
The fact of the matter is this, Julius could come out and be Rookie of the Year under Parcells if he is as good as some hope. There is no reason why he can't. That vaults him up the scale from the 4th spot no matter how young he is.

If he puts up 1200 yards rushing 300 receiving and 8 TDs and Tiki or Westbrook does the exact same thing, Julius will rank higher next year. The reason is simple, it will be a belief that he is a future star on the rise.

Next year he could be #1 in the NFC East but right now it is right that he is #4 because he has proven nothing.
If Westbrook puts up 1200 yards on the 160 carries he gets this year then I am pretty sure that his 7.5 yards a rush should be enough to get him the label of the best back in the division. ;)

I think that ypc is more important than the total number of yards because it is often an easier way to judge backs.

Tio
07-11-2004, 11:12 PM
If Westbrook puts up 1200 yards on the 160 carries he gets this year then I am pretty sure that his 7.5 yards a rush should be enough to get him the label of the best back in the division. ;)

I think that ypc is more important than the total number of yards because it is often an easier way to judge backs.No it isn't westbrook is a lot fresher than a lot of players on the field because he is on the bench 2/3 of the time. You have to get 19-25 carries a game to be legit imo...

Hostile
07-11-2004, 11:29 PM
If Westbrook puts up 1200 yards on the 160 carries he gets this year then I am pretty sure that his 7.5 yards a rush should be enough to get him the label of the best back in the division. ;)

I think that ypc is more important than the total number of yards because it is often an easier way to judge backs.
Why respond with something ridiculous?

If I am giving him those kind of stats then he'd have a lot more carries. If he continues to split time with Buckhalter but Jones is the star then the rookie rises up the ranks as well based on his durability. RB by committee is simply less powerful than definie star.

AJM1613
07-11-2004, 11:35 PM
Why respond with something ridiculous?

If I am giving him those kind of stats then he'd have a lot more carries. If he continues to split time with Buckhalter but Jones is the star then the rookie rises up the ranks as well based on his durability. RB by committee is simply less powerful than definie star.
Notice the ;) . A smiley face with a v on one eye. It means I was winking, I wasn't serious.

Why is the HB by committee less powerful than a star? It keeps them fresh and lets them play to their strengths. Injuries are a lot less devestaing this way as well.

BillsFan
07-11-2004, 11:39 PM
Something must have gotten lost in the translation here.

Malarkey has done squat, Coach Edwards has a lot to prove, Wanny is blamed for presiding over an underachieving team, and Bill B alone even ranks in the top 16 coaches in the league, even if he is currently widely considered "number one".

It goes:

1. Parcells

No one else turn teams around so fast and so well, four of them now, most well rounded, teaches EVERY POSITION from returns on specials to oline techique to dback drills - the primo "teaching coach" in the NFL, perhaps the best motivator the NFL has ever had as his knowledge of psychology is tailored to each player, the ultimate "coaching up" leader, wins with less than other top coaches. Futire HOFer. Arguably the coach of his generation.

2. Belichick

Defensive "genius" who excels at game time adjustments. Learned motivation at the feet of the Master, always growing, never satisfied, now as competent an executive as a strategist, no longer micro manages, premier defensive mind in the game today, perfected bend don't break philosophy.)

3.Gibbs

Legendary offensive mind, innovative tactician, leadership personified, HOFer.

4. Reid.

An organizational wonder. Active mind which Mike Holmgen once referred to as a "sponge". Ambitious, knows the postitons inside and out. A "company man in the very best sense.

5. Coughlin

Also from the Parcells Tree. Nuts and bolts professional best suited to college or expansion teams, solid Xs and Os, attention to detail wins him games, "Parcells without the personality" is a bit of a misnomer, has a unique motivational syle.

6. Edwards

Rookie HC in 2001 entered NFL HC ranks with strong executive skills and motivational ability. Sound teacher of defensive technique. Learning the offensive side of the ball. Improving on clock management, game planning, etc but has a ways to go.

7. Wannstedt.

Top notch defensive strategist not best suited to head coaching.

9. Malarkey

Tom Donahoe's latest whipping boy. :D


Not bad not bad.

Now who's got the most championships in that group?

Hostile
07-11-2004, 11:40 PM
Notice the ;) . A smiley face with a v on one eye. It means I was winking, I wasn't serious.

Why is the HB by committee less powerful than a star? It keeps them fresh and lets them play to their strengths. Injuries are a lot less devestaing this way as well.
Would you rather have Corey Dillon or Antowain Smith and Kevin Faulk?

Would you rather have the Raiders deep RB group or Rickey Williams?

I'll take the star RB any day.

You're happy with your RB by committee that's fine. I'd hate it.

AJM1613
07-11-2004, 11:56 PM
Would you rather have Corey Dillon or Antowain Smith and Kevin Faulk?

Would you rather have the Raiders deep RB group or Rickey Williams?

I'll take the star RB any day.

You're happy with your RB by committee that's fine. I'd hate it.
You know I don't think that Corey Dillon is that good, but neither was Smith and Faulk. I would rather have Dillon and Faulk, what they have this year.

I would rather have Ricky Williams only because he would put up better numbers than the Raiders HB group, our running by committee is a lot better.

Who knows? Westbrook could get 300 carries this year and keep his 5.2 yards per carry, it is all speculation. I would rather have Westbrook put up those numbers because I know his potential and 5.2 yards per carry is better than the 4.8 we had last year.

Hostile
07-12-2004, 01:02 AM
You know I don't think that Corey Dillon is that good, but neither was Smith and Faulk. I would rather have Dillon and Faulk, what they have this year.

I would rather have Ricky Williams only because he would put up better numbers than the Raiders HB group, our running by committee is a lot better.

Who knows? Westbrook could get 300 carries this year and keep his 5.2 yards per carry, it is all speculation. I would rather have Westbrook put up those numbers because I know his potential and 5.2 yards per carry is better than the 4.8 we had last year.
First of all 5.2 yards per carry is a pipe dream. He's not going to have that kind of production all the time. One back in History kept that kind of stat up, Jim Brown. Trust me, he's no Jim Brown.

Dillon and K. Faulk was not an option I brought up but I agree with you.

I'll take a star RB over a committee any day. Give me Tomlinson right now and you can add Julius Jones to your tandem and I'll definitely think I have the better option.

dthahn
07-12-2004, 01:13 AM
All of the recent articles ranking head coaches in the NFL have typically pegged Belichick as either the No. 1 or No. 2 best coach in the league. I, however, have a serious problem with such a high ranking. In my opinion, Belichick is clearly a very good coach and a defensive genius but look at the facts. This guy inherited a Patriots team that Parcells had a role in putting together and coaching. Names like Ty Law, Willie McGinist, Drew Bledsoe, recently departed Otis Smith are players Parcells coached up. Remember, Bledsoe came in for an injured Brady and won the AFC Championship game during their first Superbowl run. Next, Belichick's coaching staff is basically Parcells' old coaching staff including offensive coordinator Charlie Weiss, and defensive coordinator, Crennel among others. And finally, does anyone remember how well the Cleveland Browns did when Belichick coached there? He did squat with a talented team and got booted out of town only to have his career resurrected by you know who.

Now, if Belichick had to actually put his own team together and assemble his own coaching staff without Parcells' help, would he have won two Superbowls? Although he deserves much credit, I don't think he could do it as his own coaching career has shown (see Browns coaching record). So if the critics put Belichick so high on the list then they also have to put our own Barry Switzer on the same list because he won a Superbowl with Jimmy Johnson's team and coaching staff. I don't think any rational person could do that though.

Q_the_man
07-12-2004, 02:26 AM
Hey Mike..

I love your sig pick and I was wondering...

with QC looking off to the right in the sig pick, it appears he ran a stop sign or light and is about to get us T-boned by another bus..
nice cheap shot, lol :D

AJM1613
07-12-2004, 03:17 PM
All of the recent articles ranking head coaches in the NFL have typically pegged Belichick as either the No. 1 or No. 2 best coach in the league. I, however, have a serious problem with such a high ranking. In my opinion, Belichick is clearly a very good coach and a defensive genius but look at the facts. This guy inherited a Patriots team that Parcells had a role in putting together and coaching. Names like Ty Law, Willie McGinist, Drew Bledsoe, recently departed Otis Smith are players Parcells coached up. Remember, Bledsoe came in for an injured Brady and won the AFC Championship game during their first Superbowl run. Next, Belichick's coaching staff is basically Parcells' old coaching staff including offensive coordinator Charlie Weiss, and defensive coordinator, Crennel among others. And finally, does anyone remember how well the Cleveland Browns did when Belichick coached there? He did squat with a talented team and got booted out of town only to have his career resurrected by you know who.

Now, if Belichick had to actually put his own team together and assemble his own coaching staff without Parcells' help, would he have won two Superbowls? Although he deserves much credit, I don't think he could do it as his own coaching career has shown (see Browns coaching record). So if the critics put Belichick so high on the list then they also have to put our own Barry Switzer on the same list because he won a Superbowl with Jimmy Johnson's team and coaching staff. I don't think any rational person could do that though.
That is so wrong. I hate the Patriots more than anyone but what you said was a stretch. Every coach inherits players. So if Parcells wins a Super Bowl with Darren Woodson and Larry Allen the credit will go to Jimmy Johnson?

AJM1613
07-12-2004, 03:26 PM
First of all 5.2 yards per carry is a pipe dream. He's not going to have that kind of production all the time. One back in History kept that kind of stat up, Jim Brown. Trust me, he's no Jim Brown.

Dillon and K. Faulk was not an option I brought up but I agree with you.

I'll take a star RB over a committee any day. Give me Tomlinson right now and you can add Julius Jones to your tandem and I'll definitely think I have the better option.
I don't think that he will keep it up his whole career, but I do expect him to get it next year, that is not a pipe dream.

I would rather have Tomlinson than Jones, Westbrook, and Buckhalter for their career, but if they put up the same numbers this year, I wouldn't care.

Hostile
07-12-2004, 05:40 PM
I don't think that he will keep it up his whole career, but I do expect him to get it next year, that is not a pipe dream.

I would rather have Tomlinson than Jones, Westbrook, and Buckhalter for their career, but if they put up the same numbers this year, I wouldn't care.
5.2 YPC in 2004 for Westbrook is a pipe dream. It isn't going to happen. Book it.

Jon88
07-12-2004, 06:21 PM
Every coach inherits players. So if Parcells wins a Super Bowl with Darren Woodson and Larry Allen the credit will go to Jimmy Johnson?

Nope. The credit would go to Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer ;)