View Full Version : For those who don't think Drew makes the HOF
Hostile
10-15-2005, 07:39 PM
Sometimes you need to take a step back from your smugness.Won't be tonight, so don't hold your breath.
Bled ain't getting in. If all it took was numbers or yards, Vinny would be a shoo-in too. Ditto for Archie Manning or Stabler.
Factually smoked that one! LOL
No anger - just factually owned Manning, Stablers, VT stats - they suck and no where near Hall status.
At least you weren't fence sitting this one, just flat out wrong side of fence this time!
SkinsandTerps
10-15-2005, 08:09 PM
I cant believe for a second that anyone is arguing that Marino is not worthy of being in the HOF. Thats just insane.
Hostile
10-15-2005, 08:09 PM
I cant believe for a second that anyone is arguing that Marino is not worthy of being in the HOF. Thats just insane.:hammer:
bbgun
10-15-2005, 08:45 PM
Factually smoked that one! LOL
No anger - just factually owned Manning, Stablers, VT stats - they suck and no where near Hall status.
At least you weren't fence sitting this one, just flat out wrong side of fence this time!
Bled and Vin are very similar--a lot of yards, picks, Pro Bowls, etc. How many HOF qbs, in their prime, lost their job to seventh round picks like Brady? He won't get to the Hall based on his tenure in NE. He won't get there based on his mediocre performance in Buffalo. All that's left is Dallas. If there were a Hall of Very Good, he'd be a cinch.
Bled and Vin are very similar--a lot of yards, picks, Pro Bowls, etc. How many HOF qbs, in their prime, lost their job to seventh round picks like Brady? He won't get to the Hall based on his tenure in NE. He won't get there based on his mediocre performance in Buffalo. All that's left is Dallas. If there were a Hall of Very Good, he'd be a cinch.
Wrong on VT and Bledsoe
Drew 4 Pro Bowls, 234 Td'S and 184Ints
VT 2 Pro Bowls 268 Td's - 256 Ints ### Nfl CAREER LEADER!!!!
You realize Drew had a 4500 yard pro bowl season in 2002 in Buffalo?
You totally missed his point and responded angry.
:rolleyes:
For a second time - No I didn't!
dargonking999
10-15-2005, 08:56 PM
Bled and Vin are very similar--a lot of yards, picks, Pro Bowls, etc. How many HOF qbs, in their prime, lost their job to seventh round picks like Brady? He won't get to the Hall based on his tenure in NE. He won't get there based on his mediocre performance in Buffalo. All that's left is Dallas. If there were a Hall of Very Good, he'd be a cinch.
techanically he lost his job to a sixth round pick, and just like Maddox in PIT, when a guy is winning games, youjust dont replace him, because your starting QB is healthy.
and BLed and Vinny arent the same, Bledsoe has had more success than Vinny, and much less faliure, he has about 3 ad years at buffalo, Vinny has been on more team than that.
Bledsoe> Vinny....and thats a fact
bbgun
10-15-2005, 09:09 PM
Wrong on VT and Bledsoe
Drew 4 Pro Bowls, 234 Td'S and 184Ints
VT 2 Pro Bowls 268 Td's - 256 Ints ### Nfl CAREER LEADER!!!!
You realize Drew had a 4500 yard pro bowl season in 2002 in Buffalo?
Vin is like nine years older than Bled. Therefore he's had many more opportunities to throw picks. How many picks will Bled have if he plays 'til 42? Had Glenn not gone down last year, ancient Vin would have reached 4,000 yards easily. Bled is now a mercenary. He's many things, but he's not a leader. That's criterion number 1 for HOF induction.
If Drew plays to 42 he'll have 65,000 yards and still have less ints than VT. YOU do realize Vt has the NFL career record for most int's.....
KingTuna
10-15-2005, 09:37 PM
If Drew plays to 42 he'll have 65,000 yards and still have less ints than VT. YOU do realize Vt has the NFL career record for most int's.....
:laugh2: Right on Nors!
Bledsoe would own the NFL record books BUT the INT catagory if he played until he was 42..
VT is an INT machine....ALways has been since he started in the League.
Wolverine
10-15-2005, 09:38 PM
NORs will like it when I say I totally agree with him on what he has said. I also agree with the others who think Bledsoe should have a real shot at the HOF.
Those bringing up the Brady thing and how he is the QB who took over for Bledsoe. Well that is true but what QB is that won one of the AFC Championships but was not allowed to play in the Super Bowl. The same Super Bowl that Brady won. Yep. It was Drew Bledsoe that lead them to the Super Bowl but Brady got to play in. So one can say that one of those Super Bowls that Brady got to was off of Bledsoes back.
Now lets compare how Brady and Bledsoe are doing right now.
Brady -
119-182 65.4% 1522 yards 8.32 ypa. 7 TDs 4 INTs 0 rushing TDs. 95.1 rating.
Bledsoe -
98-159 62% 1351 yards 8.50 ypa. 10 TDs 3 INTs 1 rushing TD and a 102.0 rating.
In his 1st year in Dallas with new players he has a 3+ to 1 TD/INT. Brady is less then 2-1.
Bledsoe has Brady beat in TD passes fewer INTs and he has Brady beat in yards per attempt and a better QB rating to.
And for those of you who bring up how Bledsoe was replaced in Buffalo to. Well I would bring up the guys stats who replaced but well...he is no longer starting there. :lmao2:
For those of you who bring up his being replaced and all this other stuff. Well you are missing some real obvious things.
I can not remember the Cowboys offense ever being this dangerous. Since Bledsoe has come here our offense has made huge improvements. When was the last time we had a QB who has had more TD passes then INTs. I cant remember.
Bledsoe burns blitzs. Our deep passing game is very dangerous. Bledsoe is a big reason why we have 3 wins. Our running game is average at best.
In our big game with Philly can someone please tell me the last Cowboy QB to totally dominate the Eagles like Bledsoe did. you know over 200 yards passing and 3 TD passes in just the 1st half. The only reason he did not have bigger numbers was cuz we had such a big lead and we went conservative.
OH if it takes you some time to name the last Cowboy QB that dominated Philly like that....its OK I understand.
This was a 6-10 team last year and things were not lookin good. Since Bledsoe has come here he has been huge in turning this team around. Those who say he is not HOF cuz of how Brady has done in NE well......you are wrong. Its not about what Brady does.
What it is about is how is helping turn around the Dallas Cowboys. And Bledsoe so far has done a great job of turning this team around. We have a QB now that teams fear. That DCs have to plan around.
When we 1st got Bledsoe I was not to happy. I thought that Parcells would just hand the job to him. Well I am very happy to eat crow on that. Right now not only would Romo and Henson not have a prayer at beating out Bledsoe to start in Dallas. I am not sure if any QB could right now.
Bledsoe is one of the top 3 QBs right now. He aint slowin down at all. He has many more years left in him thats for sure.
If Bledsoe wins the Super Bowl with Dallas he is a lock for the HOF. He might even go in as a Cowboy since he turned the team around and that is the team he won it with. If he wins 2 here in Dallas he goes into the HOF as a Cowboy and then 3 Cowboy QBs are HOFers.
I will say this. It could be 3rd down and 20. But even if it is that I beleive we have a chance at gettin a 1st down cuz of who is thrown the ball. I never had that kinda faith before in our QBs.
Who cares what Brady has done since taking over for Bledsoe. All that matters is how Bledsoe is doing a good job of turning around the Cowboys and cuz it is the Cowboys MORE PEOPLE see it and notice it.
I just hope Bledsoe can win at least 1 Super Bowl here and I would be so lovin it if he could get 2 here.
Bledsoe has won me over that is for sure.
Wolverine
10-15-2005, 09:43 PM
Oh and yea. If Bledsoe wins a Super Bowl here in Dallas then yeah NORs is right. Cowboy fans will mention him with Staubach and Aikman. If he wins 2 Cowboy fans will want him in the Ring of Honor.
Hostile
10-15-2005, 09:53 PM
I can not remember the Cowboys offense ever being this dangerous.Oh to be this young and naive.
Wolverine
10-15-2005, 09:59 PM
Oh to be this young and naive.
Outta all the things I said you had to pick this. Well I guess it is cuz you just can not answer this other stuff.
SkinsandTerps
10-15-2005, 10:02 PM
One can also say that without Brady the Pats would have never been in that position to begin with.
Wolverine
10-15-2005, 10:17 PM
Hostile is silent!! I won.
jay cee
10-15-2005, 10:27 PM
Robert Horry should be considered. He shouldn't get in but for what he's done in the playoffs, he should be considered. How many rings does he have? 5 or six? How many of those teams have rings without his last minute shots in the playoffs? 1?
:bang2: :mad: :banghead:
That's what I'm talking about HOF consideration should IMO be about outstanding production.
How many last minute playoff shots would he have been able to take if not for the great play of the superstars that carried him into the playoffs.
No way should that career 7.5 points 5 rebound per game averaging power forward even sniff the HOF unless Hakeem, Shaq or Duncan asks him to make their presentation speech.
jay cee
10-15-2005, 10:31 PM
I think this is an interesting discussion. I have to say that before he joined the cowboys I would not have considered DB a possible HOF candidate. But he might be.
What is so hard is to deconstruct what a player meant to the team while considering the other pieces in place. DB is not an Elway Favre Marino type player that could carry a team on his shoulders. However, he does I think compare to a guy like Aikman who couldn't carry an average team, but when good pieces were in place, wasn't just good, but was spectacular.
After watching DB this year, I think the Aikman comparison is pretty apt. Both are dropback passers, neither good at avoiding the rush. Both had strong arms and frankly both held onto the ball. When the Cowboys were good and had the timing offense, this wasn't a problem for Aikman because someone was almost always open and he knew where to go with the ball. But when all the pieces were not in place, Aikman took a lot of shots that he just did not have the ability to avoid.
There are some differences between Aikman and DB of course. Aikman was uncannily accurate on the short and intermediate passes. DB is not as accurate on those, but is probably a better deep passer.
I think you make a great point.
Hostile
10-15-2005, 10:32 PM
Outta all the things I said you had to pick this. Well I guess it is cuz you just can not answer this other stuff.Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
SkinsandTerps
10-15-2005, 10:44 PM
Wolverine,
Bledsoe is indeed having a great season thus far.
Lets take a look at the defenses that Bledsoe has faced.
The Chargers - #21
The Redskins - #5
The 49ers - #32
The Raiders - #29
The Eagles - # 20
The only formidable D that Bledsoe has faced is the Redskins.
Even take a look at scoring.
SD - #21
WAS - #4
SF - #32
OAK - #20
Philly - # 17
Stats are meaningless sometimes, but with all of these teams having at least 4 games under their belts it should tell you something.
Wolverine
10-15-2005, 10:48 PM
Wolverine,
The only formidable D that Bledsoe has faced is the Redskins.
.
The only reason your D held us to 13 points was cuz Parcells went in playing not to lose. If he played to win and opened it up like he did against Philly then we woulda been good for at least 21 points on you.
SkinsandTerps
10-15-2005, 11:01 PM
The only reason your D held us to 13 points was cuz Parcells went in playing not to lose. If he played to win and opened it up like he did against Philly then we woulda been good for at least 21 points on you.
Yeah thats the only reason. haha.
Take a peek at how many games the Redskins have given up over 21 points in a game over the past 20 games (Since Gibbs was back) as opposed to how many times the Cowboys have.
This will be enlightening for more than a few of you.
SkinsandTerps
10-15-2005, 11:05 PM
:mad: Guess I should say the opposite about the offense.
Wolverine
10-15-2005, 11:09 PM
Yeah thats the only reason. haha.
Take a peek at how many games the Redskins have given up over 21 points in a game over the past 20 games (Since Gibbs was back) as opposed to how many times the Cowboys have.
This will be enlightening for more than a few of you.
When we score at least 21 points in your house in the 2nd game you will see I am right. But then I am always right.
SkinsandTerps
10-15-2005, 11:40 PM
When we score at least 21 points in your house in the 2nd game you will see I am right. But then I am always right.
At least?
Make a prediction now. Not just the vague "at least".
Kilyin
10-15-2005, 11:59 PM
Wolverine,
Bledsoe is indeed having a great season thus far.
Lets take a look at the defenses that Bledsoe has faced.
The Chargers - #21
The Redskins - #5
The 49ers - #32
The Raiders - #29
The Eagles - # 20
The only formidable D that Bledsoe has faced is the Redskins.
Even take a look at scoring.
SD - #21
WAS - #4
SF - #32
OAK - #20
Philly - # 17
Stats are meaningless sometimes, but with all of these teams having at least 4 games under their belts it should tell you something.
Isn't it fair to say that Dallas had a big hand in those teams landing where they currently are in those rankings?
Redskins are stout on defense, but if you're implying that Philadelphia and San Diego are generally touted as weak defenses, I'm gonna have to disagree. Oakland and San Fran i'll give you though.
SkinsandTerps
10-16-2005, 12:07 AM
Isn't it fair to say that Dallas had a big hand in those teams landing where they currently are in those rankings?
Redskins are stout on defense, but if you're implying that Philadelphia and San Diego are generally touted as weak defenses, I'm gonna have to disagree. Oakland and San Fran i'll give you though.
Fair to say indeed.
However Oakland nor Philly has looked great otherwise.
For the Stabler, Archie Manning HOF supporters:
Archie Manning - Aints 23,000 yards 125 TD 173 iNT - NEXT
Stabler - Gambler 28,000 yards 194 TD 222 iNT - NEXT
Bledsoe 41,000 yards (33) 234 TD 184 iNT - A candidate for HOF
Wolverine,
Bledsoe is indeed having a great season thus far.
Lets take a look at the defenses that Bledsoe has faced.
The Chargers - #21
The Redskins - #5
The 49ers - #32
The Raiders - #29
The Eagles - # 20
The only formidable D that Bledsoe has faced is the Redskins.
Even take a look at scoring.
SD - #21
WAS - #4
SF - #32
OAK - #20
Philly - # 17
Stats are meaningless sometimes, but with all of these teams having at least 4 games under their belts it should tell you something.
It tells me we are scoring 24 points a game.
tyke1doe
10-16-2005, 08:14 AM
I agree that Bledsoe is iffy as a HOF candidate. But that is because the process is so flawed.
When you talk about impact, what you are really talking about is HYPE.
Swann had impact/hype in the league because he made big plays in the superbowl. But the overall production was not good enough to go to the HOF, IMO.
Just 1 year later, Ottis Anderson's rookie season was almost as great as Earl Campbell's.
But the Cardinals had a poor defense, while the Oilers had one of the best in the league, so Anderson didn't get to play on Monday Night football or make the playoffs.
So no impact/hype for Anderson. And no HOF.
Because Bledsoe does not have the impact/hype from playing on a winning team, he will have to go in on personal production.
And I don't think he has enough to overcome the bias of not playing on a great team. If he reaches 50,000 yards, and 300 tds I think he will have enough personal production to overcome that bias.
The HOF should IMO, be more about what the individual player was able to accomplish, not the team.
That's why you see players from Championship teams get more credit than other players.
Like Scottie Pippen being rated over Dominique Wilkins for the NBA's 50 greatest.
Or the guy who called in on a talk show and said that Robert Horry should be considered for the Basketball HOF.
I don't disagree.
Just a few points:
1. I think fans do a disservice to the debate by trying to pinpoint one criterion as the standard for selection into the Hall of Fame, whether focusing on stats or big plays or signifcance to the game or importance to the success of a franchise or pro-bowls or league MVPs. It's not that simple to peg. It can be one or it can be a combination of criteria. I think discerning/intelligent fans know the difference. I mean, we know the difference (or should know the difference) between a Namath and a Testverde and why one should be in the Hall of Fame with his lack of stats and one shouldn't because he has the stats.
2. It's the Hall of FAME not the Hall of Stats.
Swann may not have had the stats but because of the famous plays he made and being a part of a dynasty, he's in. And I think he should be in stats because his plays elevated him to legendary status in the annals of NFL history. Same with Brady. Brady doesn't have to have the stats. I say he's a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame if he retires today.
dbair1967
10-16-2005, 08:51 AM
Wolverine,
Bledsoe is indeed having a great season thus far.
Lets take a look at the defenses that Bledsoe has faced.
The Chargers - #21
The Redskins - #5
The 49ers - #32
The Raiders - #29
The Eagles - # 20
The only formidable D that Bledsoe has faced is the Redskins.
Even take a look at scoring.
SD - #21
WAS - #4
SF - #32
OAK - #20
Philly - # 17
Stats are meaningless sometimes, but with all of these teams having at least 4 games under their belts it should tell you something.
its still too early in the season...Philly took a big drop in defensive stats after last weeks game vs us, our game wasnt indicative of their other 4 games to date
David
Hostile
10-16-2005, 10:17 AM
For the Stabler, Archie Manning HOF supporters:
Archie Manning - Aints 23,000 yards 125 TD 173 iNT - NEXT
Stabler - Gambler 28,000 yards 194 TD 222 iNT - NEXT
Bledsoe 41,000 yards (33) 234 TD 184 iNT - A candidate for HOFThat's why I keep telling you that you don't get it. No one, not one single solitary person here, said Archie or Snake deserved to be in the Hall of Fame.
You're barking at shadows.
Hostile
10-16-2005, 10:18 AM
I don't disagree.
Just a few points:
1. I think fans do a disservice to the debate by trying to pinpoint one criterion as the standard for selection into the Hall of Fame, whether focusing on stats or big plays or signifcance to the game or importance to the success of a franchise or pro-bowls or league MVPs. It's not that simple to peg. It can be one or it can be a combination of criteria. I think discerning/intelligent fans know the difference. I mean, we know the difference (or should know the difference) between a Namath and a Testverde and why one should be in the Hall of Fame with his lack of stats and one shouldn't because he has the stats.
2. It's the Hall of FAME not the Hall of Stats.
Swann may not have had the stats but because of the famous plays he made and being a part of a dynasty, he's in. And I think he should be in stats because his plays elevated him to legendary status in the annals of NFL history. Same with Brady. Brady doesn't have to have the stats. I say he's a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame if he retires today.Best post in the thread so far.
Hos - BB was just called on a factual mistatement. He pulled a if it were stats - Archie Manning and Stabler were in. He didn't do his research.
Manning and Stabler Stats SUCKED. Bledsoe's don't.
Game, set, match - TWICE now!
"Originally Posted by bbgun
Bled ain't getting in. If all it took was numbers or yards, Vinny would be a shoo-in too. Ditto for Archie Manning or Stabler."
Hostile
10-16-2005, 10:33 AM
Hos - BB was just called on a factual mistatement. He pulled a if it were stats - Archie Manning and Stabler were in. He didn't do his research.
Manning and Stabler Stats SUCKED. Bledsoe's don't.
Game, set, match - TWICE now!
"Originally Posted by bbgun
Bled ain't getting in. If all it took was numbers or yards, Vinny would be a shoo-in too. Ditto for Archie Manning or Stabler."A factual mistatement?
The oxymoron of the day.
moronic?
A tad harsh,but yes there is no factual stat rationale to suport BB's statement.
Hostile
10-16-2005, 11:09 AM
moronic?
A tad harsh,but yes there is no factual stat rationale to suport BB's statement.Uh, when two consecutive words are opposite it is called an oxymoron (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=oxymoron)
In other words there was nothing "harsh" about it at all. It is an actual English langauge word. I wasn't calling you a moron (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=moron) in other words.
So pick up the victim card.
Wolverine
10-16-2005, 11:53 AM
What if the Cowboys and Patriots meet in the Super Bowl. The Cowboys beat the Pats and Bledsoe wins Super Bowl MVP.
some in here say how Brady does hurts Bledsoe more and more. Well if Bledsoe leads the Boys to a Super Bowl win over the Pats then it can be said that if Bledsoe had played in those NE Super Bowls they still would have won. Brady lucked out and was in the right place at the right time.
I would just love it if Bledsoe leads the Boys to a SB win over the Pats.
Uh, when two consecutive words are opposite it is called an oxymoron (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=oxymoron)
In other words there was nothing "harsh" about it at all. It is an actual English langauge word. I wasn't calling you a moron (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=moron) in other words.
So pick up the victim card.
classic Hos - makes a blatant mistatement, is called on it (twice )- Facts in his face
And he goes off on a tangent!
Wolverine
10-16-2005, 12:06 PM
NORs has owned Hostile on this Bledsoe thing.
If Bledsoe does not win a Super Bowl he should get into the HOF. By the time he retires he will have over 50000 yards passing and probaly over 300 TD passes. If that is not nuff to get into the HOF then what will. There are other QBs who have never won the big one who are in the HOF. I would guess if he does not win a SB that he will in the HOF as a Patriot.
But if he wins 1 Super Bowl here as a Cowboy then I am not sure if he goes in a Cowboy or not. But 1 Super Bowl win guarentees he gets in.
If he wins 2 Super Bowls here in Dallas he goes into the HOF a Dallas Cowboy guarenteed. That would just p*ss off the Cowboy haters in the media.
The big things going for Bledsoe are this -
1. He is showing ZERO signs of slowing down or being past his prime. He is one of the best 3 QBs in the game.
Are you kidding? I can think of about 8 QBs i would rather have right now over Drew Bledsoe. Drew's having a nice season, but lets not go too far now.
Hostile
10-16-2005, 03:02 PM
NORs has owned Hostile on this Bledsoe thing.Yeah right.
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