Dan Patrick, Chris Mortenson & T.O.

[Qwickdraw]

I too am tired of talking T.O. and am not sure if this has been posted already but some more info has been released about T.O.'s specific behavior problems in Philly as a result of the grievance.

Total Access reported that the Eagles stated that T.O. purposefully arrived late to some meetings, stated he wasn't going to give his full effort as well as parked in a coach's space and parked in a handicap space.

Just found that to be hilarious.

I think he should leagally be allowed to park in a handicap space because he is certainly disabled... mentally.

[ternce]

:d Lol

[justbob]

Throw Key the ball ---Throw TO out on the street for good

[WoodysGirl]

per Mort's article on ESPN insider...

According to sources who have seen the document, allegations the Eagles make against Owens in their case include:
• He was already on notice for previous inappropriate behavior.
• He did not participate in a team autograph session in training camp.
• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children.
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first.
• He said he will not give his full effort.
• He parked his car in a coach's designated spot.
• He parked his vehicle in a handicapped spot on another occasion.
• He was late to a mandatory offensive meeting.
• He failed to comply with team rules pertaining to travel attire.
• He publicly criticized the organization as "classless" and publicly criticized quarterback Donovan McNabb (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4650).
• He engaged in a fight with Hugh Douglas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3194) at the team facility.

[LaTunaNostra]

Parked in a coach's spot.

Now the eight game penalty comes clear. :)

[Danny White]

per Mort's article on ESPN insider...

According to sources who have seen the document, allegations the Eagles make against Owens in their case include:
• He was already on notice for previous inappropriate behavior.
• He did not participate in a team autograph session in training camp.
• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children.
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first.
• He said he will not give his full effort.
• He parked his car in a coach's designated spot.
• He parked his vehicle in a handicapped spot on another occasion.
• He was late to a mandatory offensive meeting.
• He failed to comply with team rules pertaining to travel attire.
• He publicly criticized the organization as "classless" and publicly criticized quarterback Donovan McNabb (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4650).
• He engaged in a fight with Hugh Douglas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3194) at the team facility.


That's possibly the lamest set of grievances I've ever seen.

The only big item on there is the fight, and it could be argued that Douglas, an Eagles employee, started that fight.

[Yeagermeister]

That's possibly the lamest set of grievances I've ever seen.

The only big item on there is the fight, and it could be argued that Douglas, an Eagles employee, started that fight.
TO apologist :D

[Danny White]

TO apologist :D
Exactly.

Hey if, I saw TO laying in the middle of the highway, I can't guarantee you I'd swerve.

That said, it doesn't take a TO apologist to recognize a shaky list of grievances when he sees them. In today's professional sports environment, the items on that list are a drop in a bucket. That's a good weekend for Allen Iverson (who's beloved by the Philly fans, I might add).

[JuJones21]

did anyone say who won the fight? TO didn't look messed up, and from what I heard, when the fight was over TO challenged any of his teammates saying "who else wants some?" Sounds to me like he gave Hugh a little whoopin'. I would have liked to see that fight, though.

[Doomsday101]

Exactly.

Hey if, I saw TO laying in the middle of the highway, I can't guarantee you I'd swerve.

That said, it doesn't take a TO apologist to recognize a shaky list of grievances when he sees them. In today's professional sports environment, the items on that list are a drop in a bucket. That's a good weekend for Allen Iverson (who's beloved by the Philly fans, I might add).

A guy like Iverson is a reason the NBA ratings are down. I think more and more fans are getting feed up with this behavior, face it you would be canned from you job for pulling some of these stunts that seem to happen on a regular basis. These guys are getting paid damn good money and the organization and the leagues need to start setting higher standards for behavior. Sorry no where but professional sports is this tolerated.

[AtlCB]

That's possibly the lamest set of grievances I've ever seen.

The only big item on there is the fight, and it could be argued that Douglas, an Eagles employee, started that fight.

I think these three are significant:

• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children.
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first.
• He said he will not give his full effort.

The rest of the violations listed are minor.

[LaTunaNostra]

I think these three are significant:

• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children.
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first.
• He said he will not give his full effort.

The rest of the violations listed are minor.
Yes, AtlCB, but under the catch-alls of 'insubordination', or 'conduct detrimental' (the Eagles preferred language) all three of those don't equal one tossed jersey in the HC's face.

Still, there certainly seems to be enough for the four weeker..players have gotten it for much less, but my guess right now is the Eagles are in danger of being overruled on the eight.

[31smackdown]

• He was already on notice for previous inappropriate behavior.
• He did not participate in a team autograph session in training camp.
• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children.
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first.
• He said he will not give his full effort.
• He parked his car in a coach's designated spot.
• He parked his vehicle in a handicapped spot on another occasion.
• He was late to a mandatory offensive meeting.
• He failed to comply with team rules pertaining to travel attire.
• He publicly criticized the organization as "classless" and publicly criticized quarterback Donovan McNabb.
• He engaged in a fight with Hugh Douglas at the team facility.

Let's put this into the real world for a second and assume it was at a workplace in corporate america...

1. He was already on notice for previous inappropriate behavior.

AKA...he was on probation..could have been for anything..being late to meetings, etc..

Most of time, being on probation opens you up to a whole new subset of rules and employer rights... If I remember right, my last job it was 2 warnings, first verbal, second written, then probation, then any three "events" after that are grounds for dismissal. You agree to this during the written probation phase.

Events can include most anything deemed detrimental to the work environment and your responsibilities including being late, poor attitude, poor performance, improper behavior, violating dresscode, etc...

So.. I think..

• He did not participate in a team autograph session in training camp... violates team participation policy
• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children..... that would be insubordination
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first... yep...insubordination again
• He said he will not give his full effort.... go tell your boss that... see how they react
• He parked his car in a coach's designated spot... violation of team facility rules
• He parked his vehicle in a handicapped spot on another occasion.... violation of team facility rules
• He was late to a mandatory offensive meeting... showing up late for work or meetings is the quickest and easiest way to get written up.. regardless of your excuses or reasoning
• He failed to comply with team rules pertaining to travel attire. ... violation of dress code.. show up to work in jeans and a t-shirt randomly when everyone else is business casual.. have fun with that
• He publicly criticized the organization as "classless" and publicly criticized quarterback Donovan McNabb... conduct detrimental to the team
• He engaged in a fight with Hugh Douglas at the team facility...physical violence in the workplace...yeah.. that would be a major violation

I don't care if "this is football"... it's still a business and you cannot consistently disrespect or undermine management and the organization. A players actions are a reflection upon their coach and in the end represent the organization.

I'm pretty sure Jeffrey Lurie didn't go to TO to get this resolved, he went to Reid and once these incidents escalated beyond Reid's control, Lurie surely determined that TO was not an employee whom he would like to represent the organization any longer.

[bsheeern]

That's possibly the lamest set of grievances I've ever seen.

The only big item on there is the fight, and it could be argued that Douglas, an Eagles employee, started that fight.
Remind me if you ever need a job where I work so I can make sure they don't hire you.
Are you kidding me?
He Started it? that sounds like the crap you hear in 4th grade.
GET REAL

[Danny White]

Remind me if you ever need a job where I work so I can make sure they don't hire you.
I'm not saying TO was a model employee... but as someone who employs a number of people, I can tell you that the Eagles need to have a much stronger case than this if they're planning on not paying him money that he's contractually owed.

He Started it? that sounds like the crap you hear in 4th grade.
GET REAL

So I guess we can expect to be reading about how the Eagles will be dismissing Hugh Douglas soon? I mean if fighting is justification for suspension, then that only makes sense.

You need to "get real" -- if the Eagles organization sent Douglas in to "mix things up" with TO to bait him into doing something that they could axe him over... don't you think that will make a huge difference to the arbitrator?

As long as we're talking about "getting real" -- what do you think would happen if I sent employee #1 to start a fight with employee #2 because I was hoping to fire #2? And then used that fight as justification to fire the #2? Do you think that would fly? I'll tell you what would probably happen, employee #2 would probably sue my arse and win!


Some people here are living in a fantasy world where everything is cut and dried and TO is some comic book villan to whom the Eagles can do whatever they like just because he's a jerk.

Real life is much more nuanced. I'm sorry if some people can't grasp that. In the mean time, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't talk down to me like I'm some neanderthal TO apologist who goes around challenging my co-workers to fisticuffs.

[nathanlt]

Some people are saying that the offenses are minor... Hey, if an organization lets the "minor stuff" go, the major stuff is not far behind. To have team discipline and chemistry, you have to pay attention to the little things. I'm glad Parcells pays attention to the little things in Dallas.

I'm glad that T.O. has wrecked the Eagles, but then again, I wish he weren't in the league period. He diverts attention away from great performances and good football.

Parking in a coach's spot is not minor, it demonstrates that having a beligerent attitude is acceptable within the organization. They should have pounded him then with severe punishment, don't let that punk act like a punk. T.C.O. (aka Terrell "Cancer" Owens) acts like a baby. In fact, I've met 2 year olds with more maturity than he has. He will, and has torn teams apart.

[joseephuss]

I have been listening to the Dan Patrick Show on ESPN Radio. He and Mort seem to think that the arbitrator will rule in favor of T.O. I agree. They both think that T.O. has a chance of being released by Philly at some time this season.

Dan suggests that if T.O. is released with about 4 or 5 games to go, that several teams will go after him. I also agree with this and think Dallas should be one doing the pursuing.

I am not in favor of Dallas going after T.O. in the off season. I think they may ask around and probably at least should look into it. In the end, there are too many negatives and not enough positives to sign him for a whole season and a new contract.

If he is released, that changes a lot of the circumstances. He would have less time to create havoc for Dallas. They would only have to pay him his remaining salary for the year, which is not that much. They could easily cut him in the off season with no hit to their salary cap. For that matter they could cut him after a game or two if he proves to be a nuisance. The risk is reduced quite a bit.

I think a lot of teams will approach T.O. being available this season much differently than his availablity in the off season. Short-term, high risk, high reward vs. Long-term, higher risk, high reqard. I could actually get behind him coming on for the remainder of the season.

[Danny White]

Parking in a coach's spot is not minor, it demonstrates that having a beligerent attitude is acceptable within the organization. They should have pounded him then with severe punishment,
That's an excellent point.

If you're planning on firing an employee, or not paying them according to their contract, you need to be very careful in how you document your case. Often, as others have suggested, you need a clear history of incremental warnings... taking action for an item like the parking space would have been an excellent opportunity that the Eagles apparently passed up.

[Wimbo]

Incoming! <duck>

[Vertigo_17]

If the arbitrator rules against the Eagles, they still have the option of deactivating him for the remainder of the season. They will not release him, as that is what TO wants them to do.

[Everlastingxxx]

Who do you want to take out of the Cowboys starting lineup? Think with T.O.’s ego he would want to be a #3 receiver? I doubt T.O. will be released this season, i think the Eagles would rather pay him and deactivate.

[Danny White]

Who do you want to take out of the Cowboys starting lineup? Think with T.O.’s ego he would want to be a #3 receiver? I doubt T.O. will be released this season, i think the Eagles would rather pay him and deactivate.
Who WOULDN'T I take out of our starting lineup?

I don't want TO, but anyone who doesn't think he instantly becomes our top receiver must be watching Australian Rules Football.

I think you'd keep him on the field most downs, and rotate Key and Glenn opposite him depending on the situation.

[joseephuss]

Who do you want to take out of the Cowboys starting lineup? Think with T.O.’s ego he would want to be a #3 receiver? I doubt T.O. will be released this season, i think the Eagles would rather pay him and deactivate.

I am not questioning what the Eagles are doing. I think they have played the supension/deactivation pretty well. I don't think they will release him this season. Dan Patrick and Chris Mortenson seem to think they will. I had not heard that from the media before today. It is smart by Philly because they don't want other teams in the playoff hunt to gain his skills. "IF" they do release T.O., I wouldn't mind him coming to Dallas. I won't be disappointed if Dallas doesn't make a move on him. I just see it as less risk.

[HTownCowboysFan]

If the arbitrator rules against the Eagles, they still have the option of deactivating him for the remainder of the season. They will not release him, as that is what TO wants them to do.


The point it that they need to either activate him or release him. The possibility of playing for the Eagles isn't the point - he won't. It is allowing him to find another team before the end of the season.

[1fisher]

Who do you want to take out of the Cowboys starting lineup? Think with T.O.’s ego he would want to be a #3 receiver? I doubt T.O. will be released this season, i think the Eagles would rather pay him and deactivate.


TO coming to dallas = :ralph:

people on this board wanting TO in Dallas = :ralph: :ralph: :ralph: :ralph: :ralph:

speculation..geez!!!!

[JackMagist]

Yes, AtlCB, but under the catch-alls of 'insubordination', or 'conduct detrimental' (the Eagles preferred language) all three of those don't equal one tossed jersey in the HC's face.

Still, there certainly seems to be enough for the four weeker..players have gotten it for much less, but my guess right now is the Eagles are in danger of being overruled on the eight.If I understand the rules correctly they cannot be overturned on the 8 weeks since they are in essence doing is not making him active for the last 4 games; it is not "technically" a suspension. He will still be on the roster and will still get paid his $200,000+ per game for the last 4 games.

Gene Upshaw has asked the team not to “inactivate” TO for the last 4 games. But he admits that it is up to them and nowhere does the CBA allow for the players to take any official action in regards to the active / inactive rosters. The CBA allows a grievance for the 4 weeks of unpaid suspension but the remained is strictly at the team’s discretion.

[Joshmvii]

I wouldn't want him on our team, but he's the best wideout in football overall.

[Vertigo_17]

I think what the whole arbitration hearing boils down to is this...

The Eagles want to put TO on the shelf w/out paying him anything. TO apparently wants to be part of the Eagles "Team" again and get paid. In the end, I agree somewhat with DannyWhite that the Eagles need to have a bullet proof case to suspend him w/out pay.

I suspect the Eagles will end up paying him and keep him inactive for the remainder of the season. No way will they let him walk. They have the cap money to cover it and are not going to give TO the satisfaction of playing again this season.

[joseephuss]

I wouldn't want him on our team, but he's the best wideout in football overall.

Maybe it becomes a case of claiming him off waivers, so a team with a better record such as the Giants or Seahawks can't get him.

[Everlastingxxx]

I am not questioning what the Eagles are doing. I think they have played the supension/deactivation pretty well. I don't think they will release him this season. Dan Patrick and Chris Mortenson seem to think they will. I had not heard that from the media before today. It is smart by Philly because they don't want other teams in the playoff hunt to gain his skills. "IF" they do release T.O., I wouldn't mind him coming to Dallas. I won't be disappointed if Dallas doesn't make a move on him. I just see it as less risk.

I think if we had a rash of injuries to the wide receiver position, maybe possible. I really don’t think we need him at the moment. Now if he was an all pro left or right tackle...hmmm.

[Vertigo_17]

The point it that they need to either activate him or release him. The possibility of playing for the Eagles isn't the point - he won't. It is allowing him to find another team before the end of the season.

They have the right to keep him inactive for the remainder of the season if they chose to do so. But, in doing this - he gets paid every week for being on the roster.

The issue is they want to suspend him for 4 games w/out pay and then keep in inactive w/out pay for the remaining games.

[FolsomCowboy]

I think the reasoning they will release them is that the NFLPA is hoping they force the Eagles to "allow TO to go to work" which means he can workout, train, and practice at the Eagles facility. TO's ploy is to force the Eagles to release him rather than have him hanging around, which is what he will do. He doesnt want to play for the Eagles, he wants access to the facilities to cause disruption and force the Eagles hand.

[Eskimo]

Maybe it becomes a case of claiming him off waivers, so a team with a better record such as the Giants or Seahawks can't get him.

As he is a veteran, he is not subject to waivers. If released, he could sign with whoever he wanted.

[Danny White]

I think what the whole arbitration hearing boils down to is this...

The Eagles want to put TO on the shelf w/out paying him anything. TO apparently wants to be part of the Eagles "Team" again and get paid. In the end, I agree somewhat with DannyWhite that the Eagles need to have a bullet proof case to suspend him w/out pay.

I suspect the Eagles will end up paying him and keep him inactive for the remainder of the season. No way will they let him walk. They have the cap money to cover it and are not going to give TO the satisfaction of playing again this season.
:hammer:

(we need a smily where the hammer is hitting TO over the head)

[joseephuss]

They have the right to keep him inactive for the remainder of the season if they chose to do so. But, in doing this - he gets paid every week for being on the roster.

The issue is they want to suspend him for 4 games w/out pay and then keep in inactive w/out pay for the remaining games.

It isn't inactive without pay. They were still going to pay him to stay home.

The majority of the speculation is that the arbitrator will rule that they have to do one or the other, but not both.

[conner01]

the arbitrator can reduse the unpaid suspension time, he can not force the team to release t.o.

teams have the right under the cba to activate who ever they like the arbitrator has no control over this. don't see him getting released. the eagles have to pay him no matter what so why would they release him? does'nt save them any money so there is no reason to release him other than helping him out and i don't think they care to help him in any way

[Vertigo_17]

I think the reasoning they will release them is that the NFLPA is hoping they force the Eagles to "allow TO to go to work" which means he can workout, train, and practice at the Eagles facility. TO's ploy is to force the Eagles to release him rather than have him hanging around, which is what he will do. He doesnt want to play for the Eagles, he wants access to the facilities to cause disruption and force the Eagles hand.

Let him onsite and give him access ot the facilities. It won't be long before he does something stupid giving the Eagles reason for another suspension.

[joseephuss]

As he is a veteran, he is not subject to waivers. If released, he could sign with whoever he wanted.

Mort said he has to go through waivers because the release(if released) would come after the trade deadline.

[Eskimo]

Mort said he has to go through waivers because the release(if released) would come after the trade deadline.

That's an interesting clause, if true.

[blindzebra]

Let's get this straight.

So with just 4 or 5 games left he gets cut.

There will hopefully be around 20+ teams with a higher waiver priority than Dallas.

Say he clears waivers we'd be competing with teams like ATL, SEA, STL, NE, WAS, NYG, CAR, SD, KC, JAX who all have a greater need at WR.

Now we sign him and he's 5 games out of football shape, coming from two WCO teams, so best case is he's inactive what, 1 week? Two weeks?

Now we have 2 or 3 games left, and we have Witten, Key, Glenn, Crayton, Price, and TO. We saw with Price that just because a player has a NAME that if he does not have first hand knowledge of them Parcells ain't gonna upset the apple cart.

So where does this leave us?

[Vertigo_17]

the arbitrator can reduse the unpaid suspension time, he can not force the team to release t.o.

teams have the right under the cba to activate who ever they like the arbitrator has no control over this. don't see him getting released. the eagles have to pay him no matter what so why would they release him? does'nt save them any money so there is no reason to release him other than helping him out and i don't think they care to help him in any way

Agree, if the arbitrator sides with TO - they are forced to pay him whether on the team or not. Paying him and releasing him is exactly what TO wants. I would think the Eagles wouldn't cave in after everthing that they held out against so far.

[joseephuss]

the arbitrator can reduse the unpaid suspension time, he can not force the team to release t.o.

teams have the right under the cba to activate who ever they like the arbitrator has no control over this. don't see him getting released. the eagles have to pay him no matter what so why would they release him? does'nt save them any money so there is no reason to release him other than helping him out and i don't think they care to help him in any way

That is the part I don't agree with Dan Patrick. He knows they don't have to release him. He just has a feeling that they will. Maybe just to finally be rid of him. Like I said, I doubt they release him this season. They really have little to gain by doing that. But "IF", could be interesting.

[Portland Fanatic]

TO coming to dallas = :ralph:

people on this board wanting TO in Dallas = :ralph: :ralph: :ralph: :ralph: :ralph:

speculation..geez!!!!

I second that......I NEVER want him here.....NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chocolate Lab]

I heard Mort floating this idea the other day, but I don't see why there is anything wrong with what the Eagles are doing.

The closest I have heard is that they can't technically make him stay away from the team, and that after the suspension, he could show up for practice and the team couldn't lock him out, so to speak. Most people, like Keyshawn, wouldn't show up if the team didn't want them and wouldn't play them, but T.O. might be mental enough to try something like that. The thinking is that they could would release him to not have to put up with that.

But I doubt it would come to that. If he causes even a hint of a stink, just throw him out of practice Antonio Bryant-style. The union can't force a team to play a player.

[joseephuss]

That's an interesting clause, if true.

Same thing happened when the Redskins released Deion Sanders a few years back. He had to go through waivers. San Diego claimed him before Oakland could. He wanted to play for the Raiders, so he decided to retire instead.

[Hostile]

Okay, let's pretend for 1 minute that TO wins through the arbitrator, what will happen?

This is easy the Eagles will de-activate him. NFL rosters consist of 53 players. Not all of them suit up. Each week there are players listed as inactive.

That is what will happen to Terrell Owens.

He's not going to play for anyone else the rest of the year. The Eagles will pay him to stay away.

They're planning to do it for 5 games already, they'll simply add the other 3 games if the arbitrator rules against them.

He's an Eagle for 2005, but he won't play the rest of this year.

He will not be released in 2005. The NFLPA can't tell the Eagles who to activate and who not to.

He's done for the year.

Simple cap economics. They're not going to give him to someone during this season or take the cap hit. He'll be released after the season sometime before March 1st.

[joseephuss]

I second that......I NEVER want him here.....NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't want him in Portland? :D

[MarionBarberThe4th]

How are theese arbitrators always on Owens side?

[JackMagist]

I'm not saying TO was a model employee... but as someone who employs a number of people, I can tell you that the Eagles need to have a much stronger case than this if they're planning on not paying him money that he's contractually owed. Depends on the clauses in the contract...My understanding is that there was a clause about the autograph signing and probably other standard clauses that cover some of these situations.

So I guess we can expect to be reading about how the Eagles will be dismissing Hugh Douglas soon? I mean if fighting is justification for suspension, then that only makes sense.

You need to "get real" -- if the Eagles organization sent Douglas in to "mix things up" with TO to bait him into doing something that they could axe him over... don't you think that will make a huge difference to the arbitrator? And you know that the organization sent Douglas in or did he do it on his own? Also, even if Douglas started the argument...TO got out of the whirlpool and put on his "tennis shoes" to get better traction so he could fight Douglas; a premeditated act in preparation for the fight. If Douglas "started the fight" TO would not have had the chance to put on his shoes first.

As long as we're talking about "getting real" -- what do you think would happen if I sent employee #1 to start a fight with employee #2 because I was hoping to fire #2? And then used that fight as justification to fire the #2? Do you think that would fly? I'll tell you what would probably happen, employee #2 would probably sue my arse and win! Again...what evidence do you have that Douglas was sent to start a fight? He may have been sent to "discuss the situation" with Owens but told to start a fight? You'll have a hard time proving that one.

Some people here are living in a fantasy world where everything is cut and dried and TO is some comic book villan to whom the Eagles can do whatever they like just because he's a jerk. Actually I think we are all living in a real world where most of us could get fired for the exact actions that TO is getting fired for.

Real life is much more nuanced. Translation...He's a highly paid professional athlete so he does not have to conduct himself with the same civility as the rest of the world. Sorry but I don't buy it. I’m sorry if some people can't grasp that. We grasp it...we just don't agree with it.

In the mean time, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't talk down to me like I'm some neanderthal TO apologist who goes around challenging my co-workers to fisticuffs. Speaking of talking down to people... "I'm sorry if some people can't grasp that." isn't that talking down in it's own right. I'd suggest that you might want to practice what you preach. My responses in bold above.

[StanleySpadowski]

I'm in total agreement with DannyRight on this one.

Very few of these infractions seem grevious to me. Missing the mandatory autograph session seems to be the most serious, simply because Owens was made aware of it prior to it and simply refused to attend. The parking situation is probably the second most serious. If every American who'd ever been late to a meeting was fired, almost everyone would be in a soup line.

Nothing that Owens said bothers me too much. One needs to put Owens' "shut up" coment into context. They were having a verbal altercation. Even his Childress remarks could be construed as an attempt at conflict avoidance. Does anyone here doubt Owens' belief in the accuracies of his McNabb statements.


I've seen many people attempt to compare the Owens situation to an everyday workplace but that cannot be done without looking at both sides. If Joe Sixpack was subjected to the verbal abuse that a typical football coach subjects his players to, harrassment lawsuits would be coming out the yahoo. Lest we forget Parcells calling a cetain player an expletive on national television. I doubt that happens to an "ordinary" employee without serious legal ramifications to the employer.

The fight with Douglas, by most accounts, was instigated by Douglas. I don't know if it was at the behest of the Eagles' organization or perhaps even Rosenhaus (agent for both, Douglas apparently was instrumental in Owens signing).

[32BellyOption]

What's the difference between TO and a bag full of horse dung?

The bag :-)

[CrazyCowboy]

TO is going to be very interesting........I will leave this decision in the hands of Coach Parcells. We are very lucky to have a coach who can make this decision to be in the best interst of the Dallas Cowboys......which BP will do!

[DallasInDC]

If he was released wouldn't he have to clear waivers first? If that is the case, does team with a losing record claim him and try to restructure his contract, or do you let him clear waivers and negotiate a new contract?

[Next_years_Champs]

What's the difference between TO and a bag full of horse dung?

The bag :-)

paper or plastic

[mperfection]

Exactly.

Hey if, I saw TO laying in the middle of the highway, I can't guarantee you I'd swerve.

That said, it doesn't take a TO apologist to recognize a shaky list of grievances when he sees them. In today's professional sports environment, the items on that list are a drop in a bucket. That's a good weekend for Allen Iverson (who's beloved by the Philly fans, I might add).
I know you're a fan, but this is completely inappropriate - even if slight humor were intended.

[DallasInDC]

Mort said he has to go through waivers because the release(if released) would come after the trade deadline.

:doh: I guess I should have read the entire thread before I posted.

[ghst187]

TO coming to dallas = :ralph:

people on this board wanting TO in Dallas = :ralph: :ralph: :ralph: :ralph: :ralph:

speculation..geez!!!!

right on, i cringed when we brought in Key. I can only stand him now because he has and performed well, same for Glenn. Double that for Deion (gag)..
Randy Moss and TO are the two players that I absolutely can't stand and want to see out of the league any which way sends them there fast, although preferrably I'd love for their attitude to be their undoing.
I have often prayed that I didn't have such a Dallas Cowboys addiction. They've broken my heart a thousand times and I've wanted to stop loving them so much but it hasn't worked out so well. If JJ brought in TO though, I seriously have to think that I might not care to watch them anymore.
TO and Moss represent much of what is wrong with our society today...me, me, me, nothing is ever my fault, normal rules don't apply to me, and I need not show ANYONE but myself respect.
Even if it meant getting a ring, I'd feel like the Dallas Cowboys would've have sold their soul to get it. NO TO please.

[Portland Fanatic]

You don't want him in Portland? :D

LOL...ok smartarse :bow:

[BrAinPaiNt]

Are we bringing him in to return punts...THAT may just change my mind. :D

[Manster68]

What Dallas should do is sign him, then convert him to free safety. Let him play the nickel packages.

Naaaa - that would never happen.

[Danny White]

My responses in bold above.
I'm not going to get into a fight with you over this. The subject (TO) is not worth it.

Any anger in my post was not directed at you or any group of posters, but at bsheeern in particular who I felt got too personal and condecending in his post. I apologize if I used vague language and inadvertantly painted with too broad of a brush.

One friendly followup I will make to your post, however, is regarding the Douglas/Owens brouhaha. I have no idea who is at fault, but I'd bet Owens' team tries to pin it on the Eagles via their surrogate Douglas. One key point you raise, though, is if Owens can "prove" anything?

It will be interesting to see who the burden of proof falls upon in this hearing. Will Owens have to "prove" he's not in violation of his contract... or will the Eagles have to "prove" that he is? This will be key. My hunch is that the Eagles will have to prove that he is and thus the burden of proof will fall upon them.

Respectfully,
DW

[Charles]

If he's released he'd have to clear wavers. There is absolutly no way the Redskins or Giants will let him go if there is a chance that he'd land in the division..........

[JackMagist]

I'm not going to get into a fight with you over this. The subject (TO) is not worth it.

Any anger in my post was not directed at you or any group of posters, but at bsheeern in particular who I felt got too personal and condecending in his post. I apologize if I used vague language and inadvertantly painted with too broad of a brush.

One friendly followup I will make to your post, however, is regarding the Douglas/Owens brouhaha. I have no idea who is at fault, but I'd bet Owens' team tries to pin it on the Eagles via their surrogate Douglas. One key point you raise, though, is if Owens can "prove" anything?

It will be interesting to see who the burden of proof falls upon in this hearing. Will Owens have to "prove" he's not in violation of his contract... or will the Eagles have to "prove" that he is? This will be key. My hunch is that the Eagles will have to prove that he is and thus the burden of proof will fall upon them.

Respectfully,
DWThank you for the explanation DW. Perhaps I took things a bit too personally myself.

At any rate you are correct about the “burden of proof" issue. Since this is not an actual court of law the rules of the debate could be different than those of a courtroom. And in a Civil case such as this the burden is proof is fluid even in a court room; especially when a jury is involved.

[TheSkaven]

If the arbitrator rules against the Eagles, they still have the option of deactivating him for the remainder of the season. They will not release him, as that is what TO wants them to do.Not true. That would mean the Eagles' won the case. Keyshawn didn't go to an arbitrator. The issue at hand is, is deactivating a player a reasonable form of punishment? TO has incentives that he won't be able to hit now, for example.

The player's union is of the opinion that 4 games is the maximum suspension, after that time elapses you either play him or cut him.

I still say I'd like to see the Eagles activate him and play him on special teams like the 'Skins did to Arrington.

:lmao2:

[Danny White]

I know you're a fan, but this is completely inappropriate - even if slight humor were intended.
It was hyperbole.

It's like saying "I'd sell my soul for a chocolate donut." You see, I wouldn't really sell my soul for a donut, I'm a very religious person, I believe in life everlasting, and I value my eternal soul far too much to sell for even a dozen chocolate donuts... I'm just using hyperbole to express how much I want a chocolate donut. But if I used that phrase, I would hope that people would recognize the hyperbole and that I wouldn't get messages warning me about the dire theological implications of my words.

But just to clarify, if at all possible, I WOULD swerve to miss TO in traffic... there's no way I would risk going to jail over that guy.

[Reality]

Okay, let's pretend for 1 minute that TO wins through the arbitrator, what will happen?

This is easy the Eagles will de-activate him. NFL rosters consist of 53 players. Not all of them suit up. Each week there are players listed as inactive.

That is what will happen to Terrell Owens.

He's not going to play for anyone else the rest of the year. The Eagles will pay him to stay away.

They're planning to do it for 5 games already, they'll simply add the other 3 games if the arbitrator rules against them.

He's an Eagle for 2005, but he won't play the rest of this year.

He will not be released in 2005. The NFLPA can't tell the Eagles who to activate and who not to.

He's done for the year.

Simple cap economics. They're not going to give him to someone during this season or take the cap hit. He'll be released after the season sometime before March 1st.I say wait until the off-season then trade him to Houston :)

[Doomsday101]

Not true. That would mean the Eagles' won the case. Keyshawn didn't go to an arbitrator. The issue at hand is, is deactivating a player a reasonable form of punishment? TO has incentives that he won't be able to hit now, for example.

The player's union is of the opinion that 4 games is the maximum suspension, after that time elapses you either play him or cut him.

I still say I'd like to see the Eagles activate him and play him on special teams like the 'Skins did to Arrington.

:lmao2:

Even if TO wins the NFLPA can't force the eagle to make him active.

[Hostile]

Even if TO wins the NFLPA can't force the eagle to make him active.That's what I keep saying.

It doesn't register.

They can't force them to release him either.

[Natedawg44]

In addition to parking in Andy Reid's parking space. The real reason TO was suspended was that he was having a problem with his TPS reports. :lmao2:

[Danny White]

In addition to parking in Andy Reid's parking space. The real reason TO was suspended was that he was having a problem with his TPS reports. :lmao2:
"So TO, I see you'll be missing the re-match with Roy Williams and the Cowboys."

"Well Bob, I wouldn't exactly say I'll be 'missing' the rematch."

[AtlCB]

I say wait until the off-season then trade him to Houston :)

:lmao2:

[AtlCB]

paper or plastic
I seriously hope it's plastic if it has horse dung in it!

[Yeagermeister]

Even if TO wins the NFLPA can't force the eagle to make him active.
Stop using facts :eek:

[Doomsday101]

Stop using facts :eek:

I know they just get in the way. LOL

[HTownCowboysFan]

They have the right to keep him inactive for the remainder of the season if they chose to do so. But, in doing this - he gets paid every week for being on the roster.

The issue is they want to suspend him for 4 games w/out pay and then keep in inactive w/out pay for the remaining games.


That's what the are challenging. The fact he has already been punished with the 4 game w/out pay - any additional games he is put on the inactive list is "extra" punishment and he could be released and playing for someone else. Getting paid not the issue.

[Yeagermeister]

That's what the are challenging. The fact he has already been punished with the 4 game w/out pay - any additional games he is put on the inactive list is "extra" punishment and he could be released and playing for someone else. Getting paid not the issue.
Then it's simple.....he has an ankle injury....put him on IR

[Kangaroo]

Let him onsite and give him access ot the facilities. It won't be long before he does something stupid giving the Eagles reason for another suspension.

They can limit when he is allowed on the premises they can set a time that he is only allowed on the premises between 3am - 6am if he shows up any other time he is trespassing and can be arrested bing Eagles win again.

The arbitrator can not do anything about that; or the player assocation the Eagles have the upper hand.

Eagles win again :iggles:

[Yeagermeister]

In addition to parking in Andy Reid's parking space. The real reason TO was suspended was that he was having a problem with his TPS reports. :lmao2:
:lmao2:

Nice touch on bringing back the Lynn Scott avatar :thumbup:

[Kangaroo]

That's what the are challenging. The fact he has already been punished with the 4 game w/out pay - any additional games he is put on the inactive list is "extra" punishment and he could be released and playing for someone else. Getting paid not the issue.

Well we have people on the inactive list every week they have no leverage. They do not have to release him and they can make him in inactive all they want NFLPA has no power and can not do a dam thing about it. They can deactivate him for any reason we need extra linemen; he does not know the playbook well enough bahaha they have 500 excuse to use

[Jimz31]

The arbitrator can't make them do a thing as far as releasing him....they can't FORCE a team to eat up some of their own money.

IF this Redskin season-ticket holder arbitrator does rule against the Eagles...the Eagles could just say "Fine, he's now deactivated....Good day to you...". "Buh-bye!".

[Yeagermeister]

The arbitrator can't make them do a thing as far as releasing him....they can't FORCE a team to eat up some of their own money.

IF this Redskin season-ticket holder arbitrator does rule against the Eagles...the Eagles could just say "Fine, he's now deactivated....Good day to you...". "Buh-bye!".
I can just see Reid waving to him and saying BUH BYE :lmao:

[Jimz31]

I can just see Reid waving to him and saying BUH BYE :lmao:

Nah....the owner would.

Reid would just throw his belly at her as he passes her by.

(I actually kinda like Reid. He's a classy guy, so it's hard for me to say anything bad about him when it comes to his weight.) :(

[BigDFan5]

As he is a veteran, he is not subject to waivers. If released, he could sign with whoever he wanted.


I believe since the trade deadline has passed all players even Vets are subject to the wavier process to prevent teams from collusion like a poor team dumping good player knowing a playoff team will sign him

[Yeagermeister]

Nah....the owner would.

Reid would just throw his belly at her as he passes her by.

(I actually kinda like Reid. He's a classy guy, so it's hard for me to say anything bad about him when it comes to his weight.) :(
I have gained a lot of respect for him with the way he has handled this situation.

[Jimz31]

I have gained a lot of respect for him with the way he has handled this situation.
Agreed.

He's handled this whole thing alot better than quite a few other coaches would have.

He really hasn't even said ANYTHING to the media until they suspended him....and even then, it wasn't much.

[KingTuna]

Did Mort SAY he thinks Dallas will make a run for him??

[Wolverine]

Who do you want to take out of the Cowboys starting lineup? Think with T.O.’s ego he would want to be a #3 receiver? I doubt T.O. will be released this season, i think the Eagles would rather pay him and deactivate.


Stupidest post I have ever seen. T.O. a #3 WR. I nominate this for dumbest post of 2005.

There is no WR on this roster even close to the talent T.O. has and do the things on the field he does. He comes here and he is the #1 guy real easy. Not even close.

[Doomsday101]

There is no WR on this roster even close to the talent T.O. has and do the things on the field he does. He comes here and he is the #1 guy real easy. Not even close.

I agree yet he is still not worth the turmoil that he causes to a team. Dallas right now is building some very good chemistry on this team and the last thing we need is some idiot creating trouble on this team. T.O. is not the last great WR who will play this game and the trouble he causes is just not worth the risk. T.O. upside is he makes a good WR core better but his down side is creating a split in the locker room just as he has done in San Fran and now in Philly. Face it his own teammates do not want him! that should say it all

[Wolverine]

I do not care about these so called reports. Parcells comments about this T.O. thing are what I agree with.

[LaTunaNostra]

If I understand the rules correctly they cannot be overturned on the 8 weeks since they are in essence doing is not making him active for the last 4 games; it is not "technically" a suspension. He will still be on the roster and will still get paid his $200,000+ per game for the last 4 games.

Gene Upshaw has asked the team not to “inactivate” TO for the last 4 games. But he admits that it is up to them and nowhere does the CBA allow for the players to take any official action in regards to the active / inactive rosters. The CBA allows a grievance for the 4 weeks of unpaid suspension but the remained is strictly at the team’s discretion.
Thanks for clarifying that for me Jack, but 'deactivated' players practice and travel with the team, don't they?

If the Eagles are going to play fast and lose with categories like deactivation (and I don't know that they are), then maybe the NFLPA will have a leg to stand on. I guess it depends on whether or not a team can tell a deactivated player to just stay home.

If it's a deactivation that looks, smells and tastes like a suspension, it's a suspension.

[Everlastingxxx]

Stupidest post I have ever seen. T.O. a #3 WR. I nominate this for dumbest post of 2005.

There is no WR on this roster even close to the talent T.O. has and do the things on the field he does. He comes here and he is the #1 guy real easy. Not even close.

This post is even dumber because it doesn’t realize my post was asking a question to an obvious answer. Of course TO is not a #3 receiver. Thank you for making me laugh. :)

[BigDFan5]

Stupidest post I have ever seen. T.O. a #3 WR. I nominate this for dumbest post of 2005.

There is no WR on this roster even close to the talent T.O. has and do the things on the field he does. He comes here and he is the #1 guy real easy. Not even close.


Luckily there is no chance of coming here

[DallasInDC]

I believe since the trade deadline has passed all players even Vets are subject to the wavier process to prevent teams from collusion like a poor team dumping good player knowing a playoff team will sign him


What happens if a player is claimed off waivers and refuses to sign with the team that claimed him? Does he have to sit out the year and wait until the next season to be a free agent?

[Natedawg44]

:lmao2:

Nice touch on bringing back the Lynn Scott avatar :thumbup:
I never got rid of it. I had faith that they would never fully get rid of Rasputin. I actually ran against him in track in high school (beat him too) so I do root for him even though 99% of the people on this board don't.

[Fletch]

Let's put this into the real world for a second and assume it was at a workplace in corporate america...

1. He was already on notice for previous inappropriate behavior.

AKA...he was on probation..could have been for anything..being late to meetings, etc..

Most of time, being on probation opens you up to a whole new subset of rules and employer rights... If I remember right, my last job it was 2 warnings, first verbal, second written, then probation, then any three "events" after that are grounds for dismissal. You agree to this during the written probation phase.

Events can include most anything deemed detrimental to the work environment and your responsibilities including being late, poor attitude, poor performance, improper behavior, violating dresscode, etc...

So.. I think..

• He did not participate in a team autograph session in training camp... violates team participation policy
• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children..... that would be insubordination
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first... yep...insubordination again
• He said he will not give his full effort.... go tell your boss that... see how they react
• He parked his car in a coach's designated spot... violation of team facility rules
• He parked his vehicle in a handicapped spot on another occasion.... violation of team facility rules
• He was late to a mandatory offensive meeting... showing up late for work or meetings is the quickest and easiest way to get written up.. regardless of your excuses or reasoning
• He failed to comply with team rules pertaining to travel attire. ... violation of dress code.. show up to work in jeans and a t-shirt randomly when everyone else is business casual.. have fun with that
• He publicly criticized the organization as "classless" and publicly criticized quarterback Donovan McNabb... conduct detrimental to the team
• He engaged in a fight with Hugh Douglas at the team facility...physical violence in the workplace...yeah.. that would be a major violation

I don't care if "this is football"... it's still a business and you cannot consistently disrespect or undermine management and the organization. A players actions are a reflection upon their coach and in the end represent the organization.

I'm pretty sure Jeffrey Lurie didn't go to TO to get this resolved, he went to Reid and once these incidents escalated beyond Reid's control, Lurie surely determined that TO was not an employee whom he would like to represent the organization any longer.

Spot on!

[jem88]

Still waiting to hear who won the fight, Douglas or Owens? Anybody know?

[LaTunaNostra]

Still waiting to hear who won the fight, Douglas or Owens? Anybody know?
Jem I have been reading the Philly press in search of a few laughs and unfortunately, no blow by blow has come out.

Probably because none were landed except one glancing one by Owens.

An initial report or two claimed TO got the better of Hugh, but it sounded like Douglas was swinging at air like a windmill and TO not much more accurate.

The definitive summary still seems to be 'TO could have caused some damage' with a swing or two if only the combatants hadn't been standing three feet away trom each other during the entire 'fight'.

[Nors]

As long as the team is paying him I'm not sure TO has recourse.

[rgcowboys]

T.O. will win his suspension but the Eagles will keep him deactiveted for the rest of the season, like Tampa did with KJ. If I was the Eagles I would release him at week 16 so he would go on waivers.

[BigDFan5]

What happens if a player is claimed off waivers and refuses to sign with the team that claimed him? Does he have to sit out the year and wait until the next season to be a free agent?


Yeah unlike baseball in the NFL if you are claimed you either play for that team or they place you on the reserve/retired list. By picking them up they pick up his contract so they could choose to keep him by paying the roster bonus next year then he is screwed.



Remember a few years ago Dieon wanted to go play for the raiders for their playoff run The redskins cut him but San Diego picked him up on waivers to screw the Raiders. So Deion sat out until San Diego cut him (his rights)

[Mike 1967]

I'll weigh in on the side of Danny White on this one.

As much as I hate TO...it is not reasonable to conclude that the rules of a standard work place necessarily apply to a pro football organization.

Spadowski made some good points along those lines....and I would also add that there is a big difference between 5 Million dollars and $ 15.00 an hour.

At 5 million....there are going to be some very good lawyers involved. So the employer better have an airtight case. Especially since they are the ones attempting to initiate a break in the contract.

[Mike 1967]

Man...I cannot even imagine TO and Key on the same team.

I say TO can play for us...IF....he agrees to get on his knee's and kiss the start at midfield....on live camera feed.

[Fletch]

"So TO, I see you'll be missing the re-match with Roy Williams and the Cowboys."

"Well Bob, I wouldn't exactly say I'll be 'missing' the rematch."

:lmao: Great stuff Danny!

[StanleySpadowski]

Thanks for clarifying that for me Jack, but 'deactivated' players practice and travel with the team, don't they?

If the Eagles are going to play fast and lose with categories like deactivation (and I don't know that they are), then maybe the NFLPA will have a leg to stand on. I guess it depends on whether or not a team can tell a deactivated player to just stay home.

If it's a deactivation that looks, smells and tastes like a suspension, it's a suspension.



As I said in another thread, I don't believe that a four game suspension without pay followed by inactivation is a breach of the CBA. Where I believe the potential breach lies is if Owens is denied any of the other misc. benefits bestowed upon other members of the team (access to medical staff, training facilities, etc) during his inactive status.

Rosenhaus may be the King of the Sleazes, but the man's no dummy. I just can't see him trying to bluff at such a high stakes game knowing his opponent (Eagles FO) has a history of calling bluffs. He's got an ace up his sleeve, we just don't know what it is yet.

I'm betting that there's enough of a "hostile work environment" case that the Eagles finally settle and grant Owens his release.

[Chuck 54]

I have been listening to the Dan Patrick Show on ESPN Radio. He and Mort seem to think that the arbitrator will rule in favor of T.O. I agree. They both think that T.O. has a chance of being released by Philly at some time this season.

Dan suggests that if T.O. is released with about 4 or 5 games to go, that several teams will go after him. I also agree with this and think Dallas should be one doing the pursuing.

I am not in favor of Dallas going after T.O. in the off season. I think they may ask around and probably at least should look into it. In the end, there are too many negatives and not enough positives to sign him for a whole season and a new contract.

If he is released, that changes a lot of the circumstances. He would have less time to create havoc for Dallas. They would only have to pay him his remaining salary for the year, which is not that much. They could easily cut him in the off season with no hit to their salary cap. For that matter they could cut him after a game or two if he proves to be a nuisance. The risk is reduced quite a bit.

I think a lot of teams will approach T.O. being available this season much differently than his availablity in the off season. Short-term, high risk, high reward vs. Long-term, higher risk, high reqard. I could actually get behind him coming on for the remainder of the season.

I loved bringing in Charles Haley....I loved signing Deon Sanders.

JJ and BP will do what they think is best for the team and will help them win. However, my personal feeling is that I'd rather finish 8-8 and miss the playoffs than ever see Terrell Owens wearing a Dallas Cowboy uniform. Please....may it never be.

[big dog cowboy]

I loved bringing in Charles Haley....I loved signing Deon Sanders.
I loved Haley but hated Meion. His contract killed our salary cap.

[Hostile]

I loved Haley but hated Meion. His contract killed our salary cap....and got us a 5th ring.

[Eskimo]

Man...I cannot even imagine TO and Key on the same team.

I say TO can play for us...IF....he agrees to get on his knee's and kiss the start at midfield....on live camera feed.

I guess one question to ask is if we could afford to have both Key and TO under contract. I think Key's contract is fairly significant - 4 years $20M if I recall correctly. The problem is going to be that noone is going to give him a big bonus so you'll have to pay him year by year - kind of like frachising a player in some respects.

[Billy Bullocks]

Hell be out before March. That's when a fat bonus is due. Unless he's coming back to play for Philly, them cats aint paying him.

I dont think if he is released we would come to terms with a contract. He's going to want big money. At the end of the day, he is arguably the best player at his position. He's going to get payed like that by somebody

[dbair1967]

The point it that they need to either activate him or release him. .

why? its the teams choice on who to play and not play, not the leagues

David

[LeonDixson]

TO is a fabulous receiver, but IMHO, we don't need another receiver to get to the Super Bowl. Yes he is better that what we have, but I think what we have is good enough, especially with Crayton coming back soon.

I don't think we need him and all the problems he would bring. I truly detest TO and would root for him to break his leg on the first play in practice if he came to our team. I would still root for the Cowboys, but I would be sending hate mail to JJ.

[Kilyin]

It seems to me that Owens has no respect for any coach. I'm not sure if it would be possible to control him. I think it would take a gag order to make it work, for any team that ends up taking him in. You'd have to pay people to follow him around and make sure he doesn't get near a microphone or a camera. I bet Jerry holds a grudge over the whole star incident. Not to mention, we don't have any players managed by Rosenhaus to my knowledge and I don't think anyone is looking to change that.

Owens won't be a Cowboy, IMO.

[LeonDixson]

It seems to me that Owens has no respect for any coach. I'm not sure if it would be possible to control him. I think it would take a gag order to make it work, for any team that ends up taking him in. You'd have to pay people to follow him around and make sure he doesn't get near a microphone or a camera. I bet Jerry holds a grudge over the whole star incident. Not to mention, we don't have any players managed by Rosenhaus to my knowledge and I don't think anyone is looking to change that.

Owens won't be a Cowboy, IMO.

I have to agree with you. And both Jerry and Stephen Jones have been quoted as saying how much they value character when asked about TO. I don't really think the Cowboys would sign him, but strange things have happened before. I agree with what someone else posted earlier. I would rather go 8-8 than win a Super Bowl with TO.

It would be different if he could or would change is ways. But I don't think that's possible for TO. He is a warped person with a warped version of the world. You might say he has a logical astigmatism.

[lane]

right on, i cringed when we brought in Key. I can only stand him now because he has and performed well, same for Glenn. Double that for Deion (gag)..
Randy Moss and TO are the two players that I absolutely can't stand and want to see out of the league any which way sends them there fast, although preferrably I'd love for their attitude to be their undoing.
I have often prayed that I didn't have such a Dallas Cowboys addiction. They've broken my heart a thousand times and I've wanted to stop loving them so much but it hasn't worked out so well. If JJ brought in TO though, I seriously have to think that I might not care to watch them anymore.
TO and Moss represent much of what is wrong with our society today...me, me, me, nothing is ever my fault, normal rules don't apply to me, and I need not show ANYONE but myself respect.
Even if it meant getting a ring, I'd feel like the Dallas Cowboys would've have sold their soul to get it. NO TO please.

outstanding!!

great job.

[lane]

I loved Haley but hated Meion. His contract killed our salary cap.

signing deion was the start of our demise.

[big dog cowboy]

...and got us a 5th ring.
Sorry Hos, but I have to disagree here. We get our 5th without Meion. Lanecity is right, it was the beginning of the end.

[EndGame]

Who do you want to take out of the Cowboys starting lineup? Think with T.O.’s ego he would want to be a #3 receiver? I doubt T.O. will be released this season, i think the Eagles would rather pay him and deactivate.
I don't really want the guy, but can you imagine the havok Terry Glenn or Keyshawn would cause in the slot?

[big dog cowboy]

I don't really want the guy, but can you imagine the havok Terry Glenn or Keyshawn would cause in the slot?
That can be accomplished with other top notch WR's not named Owens.

[Uh-Oh]

If he is forced to be cut, EVERY team in the playoff hunt will pursue him, except the Patriots. Harrison would lead a revolt. No team is so pure and true and good hearted they would not leap an the chance to sign T.O. if only to keep him away from their competition.

[ConcordCowboy]

...and got us a 5th ring.


Yep...And I don't care about the Cap stuff!

I Hated Deion before he became a Cowboy because he was Great! And he didn't play for the Cowboys!

But I wanted him bad as a Free Agent and I loved it when he was Signed by the Cowboys!

I'd take him any day of the week! And If I could have Two Corners like him...I'm In Heaven! :star:

Of course I'm talking Deion in his Prime!

[TwentyOne]

• He said he will not give his full effort.


For me this is already enough to cancel his contract. The NFL is not about love & friendship ths is about money and employment. If you'd say to me i don't give my full effort i'd say to you ok then i won't give you the full money because you don't deserve it contract wise!

[speedkilz88]

There are presedence to go by, Keyshawn's suspension just a couple of years ago and Glenn's further back. I think TO has definitely done more damage to his team than either of them ever did.

[Hostile]

Yep...And I don't care about the Cap stuff!

I Hated Deion before he became a Cowboy because he was Great! And he didn't play for the Cowboys!

But I wanted him bad as a Free Agent and I loved it when he was Signed by the Cowboys!

I'd take him any day of the week! And If I could have Two Corners like him...I'm In Heaven! :star:

Of course I'm talking Deion in his Prime!Couldn't agree with you more Concord.

[burmafrd]

One must remember that these are in addition to all the public tantrums and bad behavior TO has performed over this past 6 months. When you add it all together, NO ONE with any common sense could come to any conclusion other then that when you have a team sport, TO is the definition of the guy you DON'T want on your team.
Therefore the Eagles are totally justified in dumping his moronic butt.

[big dog cowboy]

You can't seperate the signing of Meion and his big contract. You get neither or both and we got both and killed our chances of getting a 6th. With Michael, Emmitt and Troy and many more studs on our team, that is a HUGE shame.

[LaTunaNostra]

There are presedence to go by, Keyshawn's suspension just a couple of years ago and Glenn's further back. I think TO has definitely done more damage to his team than either of them ever did.
In Key's case he did not ask the union to fight the six week 'deactivation' - he was willing to just go home. In Terry's case, when the miserable vindictive Pats suspended him for the entire 2001 season, the league stepped in and over-ruled it.

But sure TO has done much more than both combined.

[PullMyFinger]

The most important greivance is.


TO parked in Andy Reids parking spot at the local doughnut shop.

[Tass]

TO parked in Andy Reids parking spot

If Reid had taken a baseball bat to TO's ride I would have giggled like a japanese schoolgirl.