Really can't blame Tucker or Pettiti

[ABQCOWBOY]

I mean honestly, Tucker was an undrafted FA that started at OG, went to RT and is now playing LT. He was almost cut how many times?

Rob Pettiti is a Rookie that has really performed for us IMO. There are guys who were taken much higher and are still on the bench learning. This guy is 6th round pick that has started how many games for us? The guy should be on the bench learning for Christmas sakes.

The truth of the matter is that we've been shoe stringing it since practically the start of the season. We're lucky we are where we are at this point. We complain about them because nobody likes to lose but those guys have given more production, this season, then we have a right to expect from them.

That's the truth.

[Haley94]

We can blame Al Johnson though.

[Yeagermeister]

We can blame Al Johnson though.
And Gurode :banghead:

[Nors]

We can't run the football and we can't protect the quarterback.

That doesn't get fixed fast the season is over.

[Dave_in-NC]

I can, its my right as an Italian American :D

[ABQCOWBOY]

I can, its my right as an Italian American :D

LOL......


Well yeah, there's that.

[Alexander]

Coach Parcells has stated over and over--draft status/contracts don't mean a thing. It just means they are paid more or had a greater reputation coming out in their respective draft.

They are accountable for their own ineptitude as any other player. Just because they were unheralded is no reason to accept what is becoming severely deficient with a head scratch.

Good teams have talent like this that steps up and shines. Not every starter has to be a high draft pick and in many cases, they are not.

[Everlastingxxx]

Once Pettiti goes through a few offseasons and gets stronger then i think he will be manhandling the Strahans of the NFL. Looking at Bradie James, the guy turned into a monster. I am amazed at how he progressed after 3 years. Tucker i don’t see as anything more than a good backup. I am curious to see what Ware, Spears and Canty will turn into after 3 seasons.

[braw]

The problem with the team is not so much the offense as its philosophy of the offense. BP can not get it that what worked at the Giants of the 80's can not work with the personnel we have.

The line is getting beat to the punch. The offense needs to run more three reciever sets. Spread the d-line more and run off that formation as well as pass. They double team Glenn isolate him on one side with Twins on the other.

The seam route is open with the slot or TE. If linebackers fall back the draw will start to work. As an Olineman you don't have to pancake your block when you run draws off the spread formation.

They need to have defenses guessing instead of knowing exactly whats coming and trying to execute while defenses stunt and shoot the gaps. 162( combined) yards by JUJO in space off usaually 3 wr sets.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Coach Parcells has stated over and over--draft status/contracts don't mean a thing. It just means they are paid more or had a greater reputation coming out in their respective draft.

They are accountable for their own ineptitude as any other player. Just because they were unheralded is no reason to accept what is becoming severely deficient with a head scratch.

Good teams have talent like this that steps up and shines. Not every starter has to be a high draft pick and in many cases, they are not.

All this is true Alex but he also doesn't play rookies. He will tell you that guys get three years. This, to me, suggests that he doesn't expect players like Tucker and Pettiti to be our money players. There playing because they have to. Not because that's who BP would have picked to play if he had options, IMO.

[Alexander]

All this is true Alex but he also doesn't play rookies. He will tell you that guys get three years. This, to me, suggests that he doesn't expect players like Tucker and Pettiti to be our money players. There playing because they have to. Not because that's who BP would have picked to play if he had options, IMO.

Options would be the case of Petitti. Rogers busted so, he was plan B.

Adams got hurt, so Tucker was the backup.

We basically have two backups starting right now. But like I said, good teams have backups step up and do the job. That is how teams like New England have won championships. They have lost players and their replacements stepped in. Now this year is a different story, but when you get down to the third and fourth stringer, your luck is going to run out.

I don't blame them both for being below average, I just am disappointed they cannot even be average.

[THUMPER]

The problem with the team is not so much the offense as its philosophy of the offense. BP can not get it that what worked at the Giants of the 80's can not work with the personnel we have.

The line is getting beat to the punch. The offense needs to run more three reciever sets. Spread the d-line more and run off that formation as well as pass. They double team Glenn isolate him on one side with Twins on the other.

The seam route is open with the slot or TE. If linebackers fall back the draw will start to work. As an Olineman you don't have to pancake your block when you run draws off the spread formation.

They need to have defenses guessing instead of knowing exactly whats coming and trying to execute while defenses stunt and shoot the gaps. 162( combined) yards by JUJO in space off usaually 3 wr sets.


Braw brings up a point that I have been thinking about quite a bit. We tend to go with the max-protect where we have 2 TEs tight to the line, one RB, and 2 WRs. The problem with that is that it pulls all of the defenders except the CBs into the middle of the field.

I ran into this playing last weekend where I had zero time to throw so rather than keeping more guys in to block I spread them out (4-WRs & 1 RB) and found that I had more time to throw and more room to run because the defense was spread out and couldn't clog the middle or blitz as easily.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Options would be the case of Petitti. Rogers busted so, he was plan B.

Adams got hurt, so Tucker was the backup.

We basically have two backups starting right now. But like I said, good teams have backups step up and do the job. That is how teams like New England have won championships. They have lost players and their replacements stepped in. Now this year is a different story, but when you get down to the third and fourth stringer, your luck is going to run out.

I don't blame them both for being below average, I just am disappointed they cannot even be average.


No contention on how other teams do it at all. I agree with that assesment. I just think that were paying the price for years of sub par talent evaluations. Other teams do have back ups that can step in and get it done on many occasions. On the other hand, because of the way the league is set up now, many times you don't. I would not say this is our problem but I do think that the league is somewhat watered down now. Basically, for us, our back ups on the OL are what other teams might cut or deam as development players. IMO, it's because we were so talent poor for so long, we have not developed depth in certain areas. OL is one of them, IMO.

[DMX690]

i don't blame them so their effort. But i do blame them for the lack of improvement especially Pettiti. I think he has regress. Tucker has played fair to ok for the situation he been put in.

[ABQCOWBOY]

i don't blame them so their effort. But i do blame them for the lack of improvement especially Pettiti. I think he has regress. Tucker has played fair to ok for the situation he been put in.


I don't think Pettiti has regressed. I think he's playing against better personel and because of the injury to Adams, I don't think we are in as good a position to lend help as we were earlier in the year.

[Dye]

i agree with alexander - these guys, at this point in their development are not even close to being worthy starters. hence, our offense is struggling mightily.

even with injuries, our second stringers should not cause our offense to completely change and limit our offense as it has. tie in our revolving centers into this mix and we have a medocre line.

realizing we put a lof of emphasis on fixing the defense, we should not have expected a rookie right tackle to play through the year without problems. but i much would rather had a better contingency plan than to rely on what we currently have.

hopefully, next year we can appropriate address these positions. what'd i like to see is rob and tucker let their primal instincts take over and just flat out get nasty! they got nothing else to lose.

[Rack Bauer]

Coach Parcells has stated over and over--draft status/contracts don't mean a thing. It just means they are paid more or had a greater reputation coming out in their respective draft.

They are accountable for their own ineptitude as any other player. Just because they were unheralded is no reason to accept what is becoming severely deficient with a head scratch.

Good teams have talent like this that steps up and shines. Not every starter has to be a high draft pick and in many cases, they are not.


:hammer:


When it's OBVIOUS the tackles are the biggest problem, you CAN blame them. Who else we supposed to blame? Ghandi?

[Dye]

:hammer:


When it's OBVIOUS the tackles are the biggest problem, you CAN blame them. Who else we supposed to blame? Ghandi?
:lmao2: freak'n rack, you're good, man.

[ABQCOWBOY]

:hammer:


When it's OBVIOUS the tackles are the biggest problem, you CAN blame them. Who else we supposed to blame? Ghandi?

To me, the fault would lie on the organization if anybody. No attempt was made to go out and sign anybody at Tackle. I mean, maybe there was nobody out there and that's possible. On the other hand, Torrin Tucker and Rob Pettiti are not much of a contingency plan as we can all see. I just don't think it's all on them. I think there doing what they can. Maybe it's not enough but then again, it's not there job to evaluate there own abilities to produce. That responsability lies with the organization. There job is to go out and play as best they can. I honestly believe there trying to do that.

[Future]

LOL the tackles are to blame because they are bad. But i still like pettiti and think next year he will be serviceable and then in a few years he will be very very solid. Until then, its his fault

[Rack Bauer]

To me, the fault would lie on the organization if anybody.


Of COURSE it would. :rolleyes:


Why would they go out and sign a tackle if they had Jacob Rogers (going into only his second season)?


I'm sure if the cowboys organization had the power to see into the future they would of seen how much of a wussy Rogers would turn out to be and would of gone after a RT.


But the reason we didn't go after a RT is the same reason we didn't go after a C after Johnson's first season.

[CowboyFan74]

i agree, we have won more than expected this year.....

[Rack Bauer]

i agree, we have won more than expected this year.....



Well maybe according to your expectations.


I expected us to win 9 games, and that's just about where they'll end up.


If we have won more then expected, how many wins did you expect? I mean, we had 6 wins last year, and we greatly improved the team in the offseason. 7 wins is more then you expected? You expected no improvement in our record at all after the talent we brought in?

[Hiero]

wasnt the org's fault. We had Flozell, Rogers, Petitti, and Tucker going into the season. Over time its slowly eroded to just Petitti and Tucker. Tucker and Petitti aren't giving Bledsoe enough time no matter what rd they were drafted in. I think Petitti has a future, but Tucker is gonna ride the pine when Flo is back. We will have to bring in a tackle to compete with rob imo sometime during the draft.
No way could the org have predicted both Rogers and Flo with season ending injuries. Isnt Tucker's fault Flo got hurt, but it is his fault he hasnt been playing well enough.

[TunaFan33]

Not trying to throw in the towel this year...

However-remember when Erik Williams went down with that knee injury in '94-it all but killed our chances for a three-peat with an inexperienced Larry Allen in there. Yeah-if Williams stayed healthy, we would have HOSTED the NFC Championship game that year. However-the seeds were planted for the future with Allen getting a taste of playing time.

If we had a decent RT in there, would we be running away with the NFC East? Probably. But keep in mind-this team is still a work in progress-maybe things like developing Rod, Tucker et al are meant to be for now.

[Ashwynn]

I mean honestly, Tucker was an undrafted FA that started at OG, went to RT and is now playing LT. He was almost cut how many times?

Rob Pettiti is a Rookie that has really performed for us IMO. There are guys who were taken much higher and are still on the bench learning. This guy is 6th round pick that has started how many games for us? The guy should be on the bench learning for Christmas sakes.

The truth of the matter is that we've been shoe stringing it since practically the start of the season. We're lucky we are where we are at this point. We complain about them because nobody likes to lose but those guys have given more production, this season, then we have a right to expect from them.

That's the truth.


Now I can completely agree with this and for the first time ever, I am agreeing with ABQ? How'd that happen?

[yesfan]

Petitti will be an anchor for this team for years to
come.He's taking his lumps,and is going through a
schooling this year.But,to his credit,he's been solid more
than being just a spare part.This boy will make us fans
proud. Patience,people.

[te0002]

I don't think the team can afford to help both Tucker and Petitti any longer. None of the WR's on the roster can consistently beat double teams and w/o a TE/RB in the pattern, there's no where to go with the football.

It may be painful, but it's timeto take the training wheels off both guys and let the chips fall where they may. If the offense goes down, at least go down swinging.

[Rack Bauer]

Petitti will be an anchor for this team for years to
come.He's taking his lumps,and is going through a
schooling this year.But,to his credit,he's been solid more
than being just a spare part.This boy will make us fans
proud. Patience,people.


What's that got to do with now? Right NOW he's hurting the team. The future? I'll worry about the future in the offseason. This is real life, not madden '06. You don't always get a lot of opportunities to make the playoffs (and win a superbowl). RIght now, cuz of our defense, we DO have that opportunity. But Petitt's and Tucker's play is seriously putting that opportunity at risk.

[Alexander]

No attempt was made to go out and sign anybody at Tackle. I mean, maybe there was nobody out there and that's possible. On the other hand, Torrin Tucker and Rob Pettiti are not much of a contingency plan as we can all see. I just don't think it's all on them. I think there doing what they can. Maybe it's not enough but then again, it's not there job to evaluate there own abilities to produce. That responsability lies with the organization.

Who exactly would they have signed?

Did they know Jacob Rogers was going to turn into a coward?

Did they foresee Adams go down with a knee injury, even though he has rarely missed a snap in his career?

Stating they could have got someone else is just blame shifting that really has no basis in reality.

There job is to go out and play as best they can. I honestly believe there trying to do that.

I have seen Tucker play better. As for Petitti, he is regressing instead of progressing. What you see with him is what you are going to get, I am sorry to predict. He should be better now than he was earlier in the year and he isn't. What is showing now is that are not able to help him as much and it shows. Tucker at least last season was more of a penalty machine than a turnstile at right tackle.

[yesfan]

This team had so many problems carried over from
last year,they couldn't fix every single position.The fact
that we might be contending this year,is a hell of alot more
progress, considering all the changes.Oh, btw,i wouldn't even
know how to turn on a Madden game.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Of COURSE it would. :rolleyes:


Why would they go out and sign a tackle if they had Jacob Rogers (going into only his second season)?


I'm sure if the cowboys organization had the power to see into the future they would of seen how much of a wussy Rogers would turn out to be and would of gone after a RT.


But the reason we didn't go after a RT is the same reason we didn't go after a C after Johnson's first season.

We took Rogers in the second round with a history of injury problems coming out of USC. The book on Rogers was if he can stay healthy and if he can be tough enough, he has great natural ability to be a Pro LT.

Well, his first year he was hurt and missed much of the season. Coming off the injury, we were banking on him to be the starter? Call it what you want but the truth is that he got cut. The organization took a chance on him. They missed. That's not a crime. Banking on him to start was all on the coaching staff and that's where the responsability lies IMO.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Who exactly would they have signed?

Did they know Jacob Rogers was going to turn into a coward?

Did they foresee Adams go down with a knee injury, even though he has rarely missed a snap in his career?

Stating they could have got someone else is just blame shifting that really has no basis in reality.



I have seen Tucker play better. As for Petitti, he is regressing instead of progressing. What you see with him is what you are going to get, I am sorry to predict. He should be better now than he was earlier in the year and he isn't. What is showing now is that are not able to help him as much and it shows. Tucker at least last season was more of a penalty machine than a turnstile at right tackle.

Bottom line and there's no getting around this. We counted on a Rookie to get it done at RT. Maybe if Adams doesn't get hurt, that can happen. We made a decision to use Tucker as the backup at LT rather then bringing in someone else. There's no way you can predict injuries but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if Adams gets hurt, you've got a Rookie at RT and Tucker at LT. You tell me how that can be counted on as a stable plan.

As far as seeing Tucker play better, I would simply ask when that was. When has he played better? When have you seen him play better at LT, for that matter?

The who exactly would they have signed question is irrelivant. I stipulated that I did not even know who was available to be signed, at the time so asking this question is rediculous. Having said that, who do you think we could have signed that would have put us in a worse situation then we have now?

[cowboys#1]

i blame all those sunsabeaches....this is the nfl!!!!
this isnt college anymore rob and al.

[burmafrd]

If the Hotel had not been injured, the help that Pettiti was getting was doing enough to let us do well in pass protection. I don;t think BP expected Pettiti to be good enough in run blocking to rely upon. the injury to the Hotel pretty much was the stake in the heart- we could not protect both tackles. ANd the Giants were at this point the exactly WRONG team to play- with 2 DE's playing at an ALL PRO level and the DT's playing well also. their WHOLE line was at the top of their game on sunday. We will not face a D line even close to that for the rest of the season. So this should be as bad as it gets. How much better- that is another story.

[ConcordCowboy]

I don't think the team can afford to help both Tucker and Petitti any longer. None of the WR's on the roster can consistently beat double teams and w/o a TE/RB in the pattern, there's no where to go with the football.

It may be painful, but it's timeto take the training wheels off both guys and let the chips fall where they may. If the offense goes down, at least go down swinging.


Agreed.

Tucker and Pettiti have to sink or swim on their own.

Keep a fullback in if you must but send out Witten and Jones or Barber and the Two receivers.

We arn't going to beat anyone with only Two receivers going out.

[Yakuza Rich]

I have no problem with Tucker. He's not the problem. The problem is the right side of the O-Line and if there was better play from center and Rivera, Pettiti wouldn't be that big of a problem.

Bledsoe keeps getting disrupted by the poor play of Rivera and Johnson's inconsistency. And since neither of them can run block very well, it just compounds the problem.

Rich......

[Zimmy Lives]

Who exactly would they have signed?

Did they know Jacob Rogers was going to turn into a coward?

Yes!

BP asked Rogers if he could come over to the Rogers home for some good homecooking and Rogers replied, "I don't know, I'll have to ask my mommy."

[wileedog]

I don't think Pettiti has regressed. I think he's playing against better personel and because of the injury to Adams, I don't think we are in as good a position to lend help as we were earlier in the year.

Plus now teams have 12 games of film to watch of him to exploit his weaknesses.