Bored...but was it Sean Ryan who was open not Witten. [Archive] - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Maikeru-sama

12-08-2005, 10:24 AM

We had some snow hit the greater D/FW metroplex and of course Texans have a lil trouble driving on snow so I am like one of only like 9 people in the office today, so I am bored.

I heard that a radio station was saying Drew Bledsoe totally missed Jason Witten on that 3rd and 1 throw to Terry Glenn in the fourth quarter. The one series where Julius gained 6 yards on a carry up the middle and then dang near got the 1st down on the misdirection pitch to the left but was run down by the Giants' linebacker.

On third and 1, a TV show was saying Witten was wide open to the left.

I went and re-watched that play a million times and was surprised to find out that it was not Jason Witten that was actually open but rather Sean Ryan. I had no idea who #80 and it was him.

Jason Witten was lined up as Fullback and was blocking on the right. Sean Ryan ran what some folks call "a delayed route". Where you throw a block and sneak out to the flats.

But all in all, Mr. Ryan was painfully wide open. But #56 on the Giants was being double blocked by Witten and somebody else and yet was getting huge pressure on Bledsoe.

Like I said, bored at work and just wanted to get something started.

- Mike G.

Chocolate Lab

12-08-2005, 10:27 AM

The real question is, why didn't Bledsoe throw to him? Did he not see him? Did he not trust Ryan? Or did he just get greedy?

Maikeru-sama

12-08-2005, 10:34 AM

The real question is, why didn't Bledsoe throw to him? Did he not see him? Did he not trust Ryan? Or did he just get greedy?

See a poster on another board, Boozman, was saying that a show he watches was saying it was Witten, that is what made me go rewatch the tape.

<offtopic>
I got a DVD Recorder so I will now be able to record all the games to DVD instead of VHS
</offtopic>

Back on top, Bledsoe was under major duress when he stepped back. Witten and I cant recall who was double blocking with him, it may have been Julius or Tucker, but 2 guys were blocking on #56 (just looked on nfl.com but no #56 on the Giants so maybe I got his jersey wrong) but this guy was dang near about to sack Bledsoe and Bledsoe just chunked it.

You can see Sean Ryan to the left jumping up and down and waving because he was painfully open.

I dont think Bledsoe saw. I think it was a case of him under pressure 1, and 2, locking onto Glenn.

- Mike G.

StanleySpadowski

12-08-2005, 10:34 AM

The real question is, why didn't Bledsoe throw to him? Did he not see him? Did he not trust Ryan? Or did he just get greedy?

Because Bledsoe did what he always does. He had one receiver in mind as soon as he came to the line and that was who was getting the ball.

He spends quarters at a time going almost exclusively to one receiver, sometimes even longer.

Sometimes Glenn, sometimes Johnson, sometimes Witten and last week Jones for the first time. If you're big into fantasy football, use your "thrown to" stats option and you'll see what I mean.

Kilyin

12-08-2005, 10:38 AM

It was probably #58 Antonio Pierce.

WoodysGirl

12-08-2005, 10:40 AM

Maikeru-sama

12-08-2005, 10:42 AM

It was playbook on NFL Network and I saw the same episode and they said it was Witten. I wasn't paying as much attention to the numbers, but I clearly saw the guy wide open.

He didn't seem to be in THAT much pressure, IMO, where he could miss a wide open guy like that. He just didnt even look at him.

The episode itself showed several shots where Bledsoe just flat out missed the open man.

My quick recap
http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42935

Yeah, I will take a screen shot of it when I get home, praying to God they let us leave early today.

Yeah, Bledsoe was under duress from the right, but it did seem like it was "okay im throwing it to Terry Glenn no matter what" kind of things. Glenn was double covered like always and Bledsoe still threw it to him, and it was on the same side, left where Sean Ryan was waiving at, but obviously alot further down field.

aikemirv

12-08-2005, 10:54 AM

Bledsoe should have recognized the double coverage at the beginning of the play and been looking for a second option.

He did not, and thus Ryan sits wide open and we don't get the first down.

One of the reasons we were so successful in the early 90's was the fact that Aikman knew when to use the checkdown guys - he did it all the time. It is really amazing to watch how we moved the ball back then when you look at the tapes. Nothing fancy, not a ton of big plays, just methodically kept it going, not with a lot of dink and dunk, but using all our weapons at the correct times!

Chuck 54

12-08-2005, 10:55 AM

The real question is, why didn't Bledsoe throw to him? Did he not see him? Did he not trust Ryan? Or did he just get greedy?
Shaun Ryan??? Well, we know why Aikman would have never thrown to him.

Alexander

12-08-2005, 10:55 AM

The real question is, why didn't Bledsoe throw to him? Did he not see him? Did he not trust Ryan? Or did he just get greedy?

Probably both.

Alexander

12-08-2005, 10:57 AM

I dont think Bledsoe saw. I think it was a case of him under pressure 1, and 2, locking onto Glenn.

- Mike G.

He did that in the Oakland goalline play as well. Stanley S. said it. He has a player in mind and that player is going to get the ball, especially when protection breaks down. He simply does not stay calm and composed enough to look beyond his tunnel vision.

50cent

12-08-2005, 10:57 AM

I got sick to my stomach seeing that episode last night. On three different occasions they showed Bledsoe dropping back and when he was supposed to release the ball on his last drop step, but held on to the ball too long to go somewhere else. They made it clear that the blame shouldn't be just put on the OL in the passing game, but also on Bledsoe for holding the ball too long. I'm sorta glad they actually showed it, because it puts Bledsoe on notice to stop holding the ball.

Chocolate Lab

12-08-2005, 10:58 AM

Shaun Ryan??? Well, we know why Aikman would have never thrown to him.Seriously, though, that can't be it. I don't think Parcells would have the guy if he couldn't catch a wide-open pass. Even Pierce caught a couple before he got hurt.

It's pretty troubling that Bledsoe would do this. If he can't or won't check down in that situation after 13 years in the league, he never will. And that could be a deal-breaker with him IMO.

Alexander

12-08-2005, 11:09 AM

I got sick to my stomach seeing that episode last night.

Try watching that game again. We had so many opportunities and that particular play to Glenn was the ultimate error and cost us the game more than anything else. It is true there was pressure. But the playcall and the decision was awful.

On three different occasions they showed Bledsoe dropping back and when he was supposed to release the ball on his last drop step, but held on to the ball too long to go somewhere else. They made it clear that the blame shouldn't be just put on the OL in the passing game, but also on Bledsoe for holding the ball too long. I'm sorta glad they actually showed it, because it puts Bledsoe on notice to stop holding the ball.

This is nothing new with Bledsoe. It is not like he is going to have an epiphany, slap his forehead and stop patting the football and taking too long in the pocket.

Zaxor

12-08-2005, 11:10 AM

Alexander

12-08-2005, 11:10 AM

And that could be a deal-breaker with him IMO.

We can only hope. But I strongly doubt we give up on him and start with another QB. Coach Parcells is intensely loyal to players he knows and trusts.

Zaxor

12-08-2005, 11:15 AM

We can only hope. But I strongly doubt we give up on him and start with another QB. Coach Parcells is intensely loyal to players he knows and trusts.

agreed

and though I say this with a smile I am serious when I say that Bledsoe could set Parcells hair on fire and urinate on him to put it out and we would still see Bledsoe out there

Chocolate Lab

12-08-2005, 11:16 AM

and though I say this with a smile I am serious when I say that Bledsoe could set Parcells hair on fire and urinate on him to put it out and we would still see Bledsoe out there:laugh2:

50cent

12-08-2005, 11:20 AM

Try watching that game again. We had so many opportunities and that particular play to Glenn was the ultimate error and cost us the game more than anything else. It is true there was pressure. But the playcall and the decision was awful.

This is nothing new with Bledsoe. It is not like he is going to have an epiphany, slap his forehead and stop patting the football and taking too long in the pocket.I think thats why I was so sick. We keep talking about the Ryan play, but just look at the other two highlights. One was supposed to be to Glenn and the other was to Witten. You mean to tell me he can't trust them either. He just holds on to the ball too damn long and watching the game over knowing this would only make me sicker.

SultanOfSix

12-08-2005, 11:22 AM

Because Bledsoe did what he always does. He had one receiver in mind as soon as he came to the line and that was who was getting the ball.

He spends quarters at a time going almost exclusively to one receiver, sometimes even longer.

Sometimes Glenn, sometimes Johnson, sometimes Witten and last week Jones for the first time. If you're big into fantasy football, use your "thrown to" stats option and you'll see what I mean.

Exactly. I was watching a replay of the '92 Championship game yesterday and was just amazed at how Troy spread the ball around to every possible receiver (including tight end) as quick as possible, and if it wasn't there how quickly he dumbed it off to the backs.

I think this is Bledsoe's biggest problem. Not his mobility. Not his pocket presence. But his tendency to hold the ball too long trying to make a play to whoever he's zoomed in on.

Alexander

12-08-2005, 11:36 AM

I think this is Bledsoe's biggest problem. Not his mobility. Not his pocket presence. But his tendency to hold the ball too long trying to make a play to whoever he's zoomed in on.

I agree about the mobility. It is easy to use the statue analogy, but scouts have stated he is moving around better in the pocket this year than he ever has and is sensing the rush better.

What he is doing now with the time in the pocket is showing that everyone underrated how profoundly stubborn he can be concerning what he is going to do with the football. When the play is not there, he cannot improvise to outlets effectively and when the heat is on, he presses looking for the big play, which is another tried and true Bledsoe trademark.

Maikeru-sama

12-08-2005, 11:39 AM

Well I am on record to stick with Bledsoe and I am still hoping the guy can play alot better.

Right now I dont see another option at quarterback.

BTW, arent we all tired of having to use this true FACT "We have to stick with so and so because he is our best option".

We need to draft a YOUNG BUCK pronto.

- Mike G.

CaptainAmerica

12-08-2005, 11:40 AM

Did anyone happen to see that 3rd and one play in the 4th quarter that was so crucial?
If I recall correctly we had what looked to be a TE, (maybe Campbell or Pierce), about 5 yards downfield that was open, but Bledsoe chose to throw the ball 20-25 yards downfield into double coverage with a pass that had about a 5% probablity of being completed.

I wrote this in another thread the other day. I saw the play when it happened and realized Bledsoe made an incredibly bad decision at such a crucial play in the game. I'ts ok to thorw a low % pass on 3rd down in the first half, but, imo, to throw that pass to Glenn with so much on the line and so little time left is inexcusable. Not to mention the coaches' decision not to give the ball to MB3 who hasn't been stopped in short yardage situations this year.

Alexander

12-08-2005, 11:40 AM

We need to draft a YOUNG BUCK pronto.

You mean Drew Henson doesn't inspire confidence in you?

Romo?

Maikeru-sama

12-08-2005, 11:42 AM

Doomsday101

12-08-2005, 11:45 AM

Let me ask you guys another question.

With regards to a whole bunch of two-man routes.

Okay, the word out of VR is that basically the Defensive Line dominated the line of scrimmage and Parcells really didnt trust his two tackles, etc etc etc.

Now let me ask you this. If your quaterback is getting hit and getting sacked and/or hit when you are running Max-Protect-Two-Man routes, what is the harm in opening things up a little bit more?

- Mike G.

If we can't protect we can't open things up. Basic football, games are won and lost at the line of scrimmage. If you can't win the battle up front it really does not matter what playes you are calling or how much you want to open things up.

Alexander

12-08-2005, 11:45 AM

Not to mention the coaches' decision not to give the ball to MB3 who hasn't been stopped in short yardage situations this year.

Simple fact is, you keep drives alive by any means necessary. If that means running on third and one, you do it. Looking for some advantage there by throwing deep was a leap of faith. That should have been an easy decision, especially as "conservative" as we are supposed to be. Run the football. Not drop back to pass when it has been shown all day long that your line won't give him time.

The "conservative" label has been thrown on our gameplans all season long and that play shows that we apparently have a Jeckyl and Hyde activity going on. And it comes out at the worst times. The play against Seattle, the hitch to Glenn against Denver and now this. It is almost like we outthink ourselves.

CaptainAmerica

12-08-2005, 11:46 AM

Let me ask you guys another question.

With regards to a whole bunch of two-man routes.

Okay, the word out of VR is that basically the Defensive Line dominated the line of scrimmage and Parcells really didnt trust his two tackles, etc etc etc.

Now let me ask you this. If your quaterback is getting hit and getting sacked and/or hit when you are running Max-Protect-Two-Man routes, what is the harm in opening things up a little bit more?

- Mike G.

I guess instead of it taking Osi and Strahan 2.5 seconds to reach Bledsoe it would only take them 1.5 seconds to reach him? :D

Maikeru-sama

12-08-2005, 11:48 AM

You mean Drew Henson doesn't inspire confidence in you?

Romo?

Nope

Now before all the guys who these two individuals do inspire confidence in jump on me.

I want to draft a guy with a 1st round pick (maybe a 2nd if the guy has a few knocks on him) who devoted himself entirely to the game of Football. Yes, I am sure we have had dual sport athletes before in the NFL, but I want a guy that played 2-3 years, preferrably in a Big Time Program and went straight to the NFL.

I do not want anymore baseball players on this roster or projects.

Im talking Donovan Mcnabb, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwhich, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Campbell (redskins), Steve Mcnair, Brett Favre, Drew Bledsoe, Phillip Rivers etc etc etc.

Guys that played College Football at a high level and went straight to the NFL.

I want to do it like this article describes LINK (http://www.dallascowboyz.com/articles/Its_the_Quarterback_Stupid!.asp?QVal=1&SearchKey=quarterback).

Another thing to think about. How many times has a coach been successful when he has had 3 different quaterbacks each of the 3 seasons they have coached a team? I dont know the answer to that, but since continuity and timing is so important, I would say the success rate is low, but that is just a guess.

big_neil

12-08-2005, 11:48 AM

aikemirv

12-08-2005, 11:51 AM

If we can't protect we can't open things up. Basic football, games are won and lost at the line of scrimmage. If you can't win the battle up front it really does not matter what playes you are calling or how much you want to open things up.

I agree but if you can't protect with 2 man routes, you will not have any sustained success running those routes and completeing passes anyway.

So... in my book you spread the Offense on 1st down and throw on 1st a lot more. On 2nd and long under an incomplete scenario you have to run some draws and screen passes to keep everyone honest.

As someone said, under this max protect we are really making it easier for the defense.

Maikeru-sama

12-08-2005, 11:56 AM

If we can't protect we can't open things up. Basic football, games are won and lost at the line of scrimmage. If you can't win the battle up front it really does not matter what playes you are calling or how much you want to open things up.

Hmm, Basic football eh?

What do most team do when a defense is aggressive? Most throw screens, some run straight at the aggressors, some try to throw quick slants or outs?

I still dont know why we dont do any type of formation shifts or motion? Why do we just call a play and always excute it without doing anything to throw the Safeties and Linebackers off. Psyops is a very powerful non-physical tool OCs have at their disposal?

So you are going to constantly call 2-man routes even though your Quarterback is getting hit anyway?

You are going to constantly keep a Tight-End who just broke the Cowboys signal season catching record and broke the back to back 50+ reception marke in the backfield on every freakin play?

So when U (cant spell his name) and Strahan line up on the same side, you have no guts to at least move the pocket slightly to the right and to the left depending on where they both lined up at?

On that 2nd and 4 play (the one just before 3rd and 1 and fly route to Glenn), Payton did something different. How many times have we ran that I-Form Set, where you have another football lined up to the right, faked it to strong side and did a pitch to the weak side? Totally fooled the Giants defense and Julius got some positive yards (IMO, really did get the first down)?

All I am asking here is a just a little bit of a change-up. Those guys were in Cover-2 and doubling Glenn the entire game. So even if you do get protection on those two-man routes, there is not going to be ANYBODY to throw it too most of the time.

Shotgun with a tight-end and a RB to do draws and protect? Screen pass every now and then? a Draw?

Gawd..anything accept for the "line up call the play, no shifts no motion no surprise" basic dumbed down offense of the 1980s...

Maikeru-sama

12-08-2005, 12:02 PM

I guess instead of it taking Osi and Strahan 2.5 seconds to reach Bledsoe it would only take them 1.5 seconds to reach him? :D

Ahahaa

But dont you at least give the Corners, Safties and Linebackers something to think about instead of the same boring predictable 2 man routes?

Say you play linebacker or even Safety. I played it in highschool, but of course nothing like what goes on in the NFL.

Normally your linebacker is the defensive captain and responsible for getting plays in.

Now, if you see a offense just come out, never do any motion or any shifting, or hurry up but rather just call the play in the huddle and execute the play, wouldnt that make your day? I know it would make mine. Keep in mind, these guys have played you several times and have watched a ton of film on you.

Now when an offense comes out, motions a Pro Bowl Tight End or one of the best Wide Receivers at catching short passes for first downs, or lining your running back up at Receiver (Barber) like we often do with Witten, do some shifting or come out in one formation and audible to something totally different. That right there is going to at least play some MIND GAMES with the defense and maybe give you an edge on where the blitz is coming, a mismatch, or for PETE'S SAKE one of those HUMANS playing in the secondary may actually make a coverage mistake because of the confusion.

Yes, I understand you have to be careful with over complicating things with a Rookie and below-average players, but my goodness, Strahan or whoever is touching the ball before the Running Back is on handoffs.... :rolleyes:

I am just asking for some minor adjustments here :eek:

Doomsday101

12-08-2005, 12:02 PM

I agree but if you can't protect with 2 man routes, you will not have any sustained success running those routes and completeing passes anyway.

So... in my book you spread the Offense on 1st down and throw on 1st a lot more. On 2nd and long under an incomplete scenario you have to run some draws and screen passes to keep everyone honest.

As someone said, under this max protect we are really making it easier for the defense.

There are time we should spread the defense but you can't do that all the time if you can't get the protections. Some how Dallas has to find a way to do a better job up front that is all there is to it.

aikemirv

12-08-2005, 12:12 PM

I guess instead of it taking Osi and Strahan 2.5 seconds to reach Bledsoe it would only take them 1.5 seconds to reach him? :D

Would you rather have 1.5 seconds and 4 options or 2.5 seconds and 2 options covered by 4 people

Kilyin

12-08-2005, 12:16 PM

On a 3 step drop Bledsoe should be getting rid of the ball immediately, whether it's 2 options or 4.

CaptainAmerica

12-08-2005, 12:19 PM

Ok so Drew missed the open man. If he was as perfect as everyone expects, he'd have already set the Cowboys single season passing record. You hold him to that standard. Either he sets the records AND wins in the playoffs or you say he's not good enough. It doesn't add up.
Neil,
It's not the accuracy issue for me with Bledsoe it's his decision making. That is what seperates the great QBs and frankly, Bledsoe's decision-making, and by that I mean the split-second decisions he has to make when the ball is snapped, based on what the defense is doing and who is open has always been a problem for Bledsoe.

Maikeru-sama

12-08-2005, 12:21 PM

Neil,
It's not the accuracy issue for me with Bledsoe it's his decision making. That is what seperates the great QBs and frankly, Bledsoe's decision-making, and by that I mean the split-second decisions he has to make when the ball is snapped, based on what the defense is doing and who is open has always been a problem for Bledsoe.

Didnt know that.

I always thought Bledsoe that the knock on Bledsoe was his mobility and fumbling problems.

I just assumed he had Top Notched Decision making :eek:

TunaFan33

12-08-2005, 02:31 PM

Because Bledsoe did what he always does. He had one receiver in mind as soon as he came to the line and that was who was getting the ball.

He spends quarters at a time going almost exclusively to one receiver, sometimes even longer.

Sometimes Glenn, sometimes Johnson, sometimes Witten and last week Jones for the first time. If you're big into fantasy football, use your "thrown to" stats option and you'll see what I mean.

Yep-one of his weaknesses is that once he has a receiver zero'd in on his mind already, he's gonna throw to him no matter what. Have seen him do this many times.

If it makes anyone feel better-the REAL Jake Plummer is starting to come out too-and this despite an OL in Denver that's continuing to play well.