Why did you guys give up over 100 yards rushing the last two games?

[GoChiefs]

Was it the loss of Dat Nguyen? Or something else?

[Doomsday101]

Was it the loss of Dat Nguyen? Or something else?

In the denver game most of the rushing yardage took place on the OT 1 long run by Dayne before that Dallas held denver in check running the ball. Aginst NY Barber did have over a 100 on 30 carries for 3.8 a carry.

[cwbyfan72]

Please keep thinking Larry Johnson is going to get his 6th 100 yard game...........please underestimate our defense!!

[GoChiefs]

I think you are underestimating LJ.

Dallas gives up 4.2 yards per rush. Denver allows 3.9.

Am I missing something?

[Hiero]

I think you are underestimating LJ.

Dallas gives up 4.2 yards per rush. Denver allows 3.9.

Am I missing something?
LJ is a stud, if he gets less than 100 yards, most likely that
A) we controlled TOP and didnt allow them to run a lot
B) we get a big lead and they have to pass to catch up.

[Doomsday101]

I think you are underestimating LJ.

Dallas gives up 4.2 yards per rush. Denver allows 3.9.

Am I missing something?

I guess we will find out, Dallas has held guys like Alexander to less than 100 as well as Portis and LT at SD. Dallas will be ready for Larry Johnson. In the meantime tell us why the KC defense sucks so bad ranked 27th in the NFL?

[1fisher]

I guess we will find out, Dallas has held guys like Alexander to less than 100 as well as Portis and LT at SD. Dallas will be ready for Larry Johnson. In the meantime tell us why the KC defense sucks so bad ranked 27th in the NFL?


LOL...... I haven't seen a response yet?????

[Dave_in-NC]

I guess we will find out, Dallas has held guys like Alexander to less than 100 as well as Portis and LT at SD. Dallas will be ready for Larry Johnson. In the meantime tell us why the KC defense sucks so bad ranked 27th in the NFL?

:lmao2: :lmao:

[lane]

I guess we will find out, Dallas has held guys like Alexander to less than 100 as well as Portis and LT at SD. Dallas will be ready for Larry Johnson. In the meantime tell us why the KC defense sucks so bad ranked 27th in the NFL?


hilarious!

[ChiefsGirl]

In the meantime tell us why the KC defense sucks so bad ranked 27th in the NFL?

Because our aggressive style of defense makes us more vulnerable to the big plays. Imagine the end of the Cowboy-Redskins MNF game, only more often.

Also, one of our starting CB's doesn't know when to call a cab and missed the first four games of the season due to 3 DUI's. Our pass defense has gotten better since Warfield's return.

[1fisher]

I think you are underestimating LJ.

Dallas gives up 4.2 yards per rush. Denver allows 3.9.

Am I missing something?

where's your response to dooms question about being ranked the 27th defense?

[Doomsday101]

Because our aggressive style of defense makes us more vulnerable to the big plays. Imagine the end of the Cowboy-Redskins MNF game, only more often.

Also, one of our starting CB's doesn't know when to call a cab and missed the first four games of the season due to 3 DUI's. Our pass defense has gotten better since Warfield's return.

Aggressive? Yet KC has produced only 22 sacks thus far. I hope KC continues the aggressive play. Fact is the KC secondary is not that good and KC does not put a lot of pressure on the QB those are the facts. I will say having seen several KC games this season and will say the offense is very good and shows good balance but defensively I'm not impressed at all by what KC has done.

[Aikmaniac]

Why did you guys give up over 100 yards rushing the last two games?

Because the opposing backs gained over 100 yards rushing.

[ChiefsGirl]

Aggressive? Yet KC has produced only 22 sacks thus far. I hope KC continues the aggressive play. Fact is the KC secondary is not that good and KC does not put a lot of pressure on the QB those are the facts. I will say having seen several KC games this season and will say the offense is very good and shows good balance but defensively I'm not impressed at all by what KC has done.

Nobody is claiming that the KC secondary is the best but I would argue that they're not as bad the statistics would lead you to believe. For Dallas to win, they'll need to throw the ball and it's very possible to do that against KC.

[Doomsday101]

Nobody is claiming that the KC secondary is the best but I would argue that they're not as bad the statistics would lead you to believe. For Dallas to win, they'll need to throw the ball and it's very possible to do that against KC.

I would agree with you there. While I clearly hope Dallas wins this game I'll admit I'll be pulling for KC next week aginst the NY Giants

[ChiefsGirl]

I would agree with you there. While I clearly hope Dallas wins this game I'll admit I'll be pulling for KC next week aginst the NY Giants

I was the biggest Cowboy fan in Texas on Thanksgiving day. It didn't work out well for me. :bang2:

[GoChiefs]

The Chiefs D has been improving all year.

I am not sure we have much to worry about going against an anemic Dallas O that averages a meager 3.3 yards per rush.

Our run D should shut that down, the run D has been very good this year.

[brokeback]

I guess we will find out, Dallas has held guys like Alexander to less than 100 as well as Portis and LT at SD. Dallas will be ready for Larry Johnson. In the meantime tell us why the KC defense sucks so bad ranked 27th in the NFL?

Because teams have had to throw the ball against us, especially in the first four weeks when Warfield was out. We jumped out to big leads and forced teams to throw to catch up. I hope Bledsoe throws for 300 yards this Sunday. Teams that throw for 300 yards lose 2/3 of the time in the NFL. Passing yards and passing yards allowed are as worthless as any stat in the league.
The defense was also missing key players such as Warfield, Sims, Surtain, and Carlos Hall. This is the most complete we've been all year, and we've only been giving up around 285 yards per game over the last 5 weeks.

[brokeback]

The Chiefs D has been improving all year.

I am not sure we have much to worry about going against an anemic Dallas O that averages a meager 3.3 yards per rush.

Our run D should shut that down, the run D has been very good this year.

We also have the longest streak in the NFL without giving up a 100 yard rusher.

[DallasDomination]

The Chiefs D has been improving all year.

I am not sure we have much to worry about going against an anemic Dallas O that averages a meager 3.3 yards per rush.

Our run D should shut that down, the run D has been very good this year.

Seriously our defense is the least of our worries and the most of yours.


The difference maker here will be what DAllas Offense shows up on Sunday...

[sacase]

Because our aggressive style of defense makes us more vulnerable to the big plays. Imagine the end of the Cowboy-Redskins MNF game, only more often.

Also, one of our starting CB's doesn't know when to call a cab and missed the first four games of the season due to 3 DUI's. Our pass defense has gotten better since Warfield's return.

Damn, Shouldn't he be in Jail for that?

[Chuck 54]

In the denver game most of the rushing yardage took place on the OT 1 long run by Dayne before that Dallas held denver in check running the ball. Aginst NY Barber did have over a 100 on 30 carries for 3.8 a carry.
and Barber also had 1 long run.

[Doomsday101]

and Barber also had 1 long run.

True he had a long run of 27 yards

[TunaFan33]

Was it the loss of Dat Nguyen? Or something else?

Nope-most of those rushing yards were in OT(with a missed holding call to boot), and Tiki didn't even have 4 YPC last week, despite a 100 yd rushing effort.

Dude-you're entitled to your opinion, but are you some crystal ball or something.

[jspchief]

In the meantime tell us why the KC defense sucks so bad ranked 27th in the NFL?A lot of reasons.

1. We've added 5 new faces to the starting line-up, and they didn't gel overnight.
2. We were missing our best DT until two weeks ago, and didn't have our #2 CB for the first 4 games of the season.
3. We still lack quality talent in several spots, including on the D-line and in the middle of the secondary.
4. Some of our players' aggressive approach makes them lack discipline and over-pursue misdirection plays.

The defense is trying to build from being one of the worst in the league last year. Injuries and suspensions slowed that process, but we are improving. Since Warfield has returned from suspension, the defense has improved significantly. We're still probably middle of the pack at best.

Now that I've answered that question, I'm curious if anyone wants to talk about the question in the thread starter.

Has the loss of Nguyen been a notable loss, and is it responsible for any decline in the run D? It's not an attempt at smack, it's a legitimate question. If anyone wants to answer with something other than "you suck", I'd be interested in hearing it.

[brokeback]

Damn, Shouldn't he be in Jail for that?

Nah. NFL players only go to jail for drugs and hookers.

[Doomsday101]

A lot of reasons.

1. We've added 5 new faces to the starting line-up, and they didn't gel overnight.
2. We were missing our best DT until two weeks ago, and didn't have our #2 CB for the first 4 games of the season.
3. We still lack quality talent in several spots, including on the D-line and in the middle of the secondary.
4. Some of our players' aggressive approach makes them lack discipline and over-pursue misdirection plays.

The defense is trying to build from being one of the worst in the league last year. Injuries and suspensions slowed that process, but we are improving. Since Warfield has returned from suspension, the defense has improved significantly. We're still probably middle of the pack at best.

Now that I've answered that question, I'm curious if anyone wants to talk about the question in the thread starter.

Has the loss of Nguyen been a notable loss, and is it responsible for any decline in the run D? It's not an attempt at smack, it's a legitimate question. If anyone wants to answer with something other than "you suck", I'd be interested in hearing it.

Dallas has given up a couple of big runs in the last 2 games which looks great on the stat sheet for the opposing team but no one has been just running at will aginst Dallas.

[cwbyfan72]

The Chiefs D has been improving all year.

I am not sure we have much to worry about going against an anemic Dallas O that averages a meager 3.3 yards per rush.

Our run D should shut that down, the run D has been very good this year.

The Chefs pass defense? Complete pass=open up run game.

[GoChiefs]

The Chefs pass defense? Complete pass=open up run game.

I can tell you right now, if you can't run the ball, you won't have much success passing it, especially with a QB that can't move.

I like our run D vs your run O.

As for LJ vs your run D, I guess it is the unstoppable force vs the immovable object. Should be a great matchup! I guess we can't fault each other for being confident.

[jspchief]

Dallas has given up a couple of big runs in the last 2 games which looks great on the stat sheet for the opposing team but no one has been just running at will aginst Dallas.I'm claiming anyone has been running at will on you guys. It's clear that isn't the case. Don't mistake questions about your D as attempts at detracting from it. I'm just a rival fan interested in this week's opponent.

I'm just curious if you are missing the presence of Nguyen. He's a solid LB and one of the vets on a young D.

Have you started running more 4-3 to cover the loss? Has his back-up been any good?

[TruBlueCowboy]

Please keep thinking Larry Johnson is going to get his 6th 100 yard game...........please underestimate our defense!!
:hammer:

[TunaFan33]

You see what happens when you feed these trolls?

We end up wasting our time with useless, long threads like these.

[WoodysGirl]

Has the loss of Nguyen been a notable loss, and is it responsible for any decline in the run D? It's not an attempt at smack, it's a legitimate question. If anyone wants to answer with something other than "you suck", I'd be interested in hearing it.The question was answered several times in this thread.

Since Nguyen's injury he's only been playing nickle anyway. The biggest loss of Nguyen was his intelligence and recognition skills, and just overall depth at the position. As a veteran and flat out football-playing dude, he's missed.

But as noted in other posts, knock out one long run and Denver's vaunted running game was shut down.

Tiki's a good running back, there's no shame in that, even tho it still took him 30 carries to get that 115 yds.

[Next_years_Champs]

A lot of reasons.

1. We've added 5 new faces to the starting line-up, and they didn't gel overnight.


I'm not going to get involved in this discussion except to ask a question and point out something you don't know about this Cowboys team. If your talking about 5 new starters compared to last years roster then you should be aware that last week against the Giants the Cowboys started 9 defensive players who didn't start for them last year.

Among them are 3 rookies, 3 players that we signed as free agents and 3 players which are 2nd or 3rd year players which had been reserve and ST players. I would think that warrants some "gel" time as well, but they have maintained a decent ranking while facing some of the highest powered offenses in the NFL.

[Doomsday101]

I'm claiming anyone has been running at will on you guys. It's clear that isn't the case. Don't mistake questions about your D as attempts at detracting from it. I'm just a rival fan interested in this week's opponent.

I'm just curious if you are missing the presence of Nguyen. He's a solid LB and one of the vets on a young D.

Have you started running more 4-3 to cover the loss? Has his back-up been any good?

I think any time you lose a vet starter it has an effect on the team. Dat was a very heady player and directed the defense so losing him has hurt. However we have some guys who have stepped up and filled in nicely for us.

[brokeback]

I can tell you right now, if you can't run the ball, you won't have much success passing it, especially with a QB that can't move.

I like our run D vs your run O.

As for LJ vs your run D, I guess it is the unstoppable force vs the immovable object. Should be a great matchup! I guess we can't fault each other for being confident.

This matchup will be more about the Chiefs ability to throw the ball, especially downfield, against a good secondary. Hopefully our O-line gives Trent time to throw and the receivers time to get open. This has been the case since Roaf came back. The Chiefs WILL run the ball. It's Dallas's secondary that worries me. If they can get a strong push up front, they probably win. Otherwise they will lose.

[WoodysGirl]

You see what happens when you feed these trolls?

We end up wasting our time with useless, long threads like these.This thread's no more useless than the one the other day about our 3rd string QB that went 8 pages long. :rolleyes:

Besides I don't see any trolling going on, at this point.

[jspchief]

I'm not going to get involved in this discussion except to ask a question and point out something you don't know about this Cowboys team. If your talking about 5 new starters compared to last years roster then you should be aware that last week against the Giants the Cowboys started 9 defensive players who didn't start for them last year.

Among them are 3 rookies, 3 players that we signed as free agents and 3 players which are 2nd or 3rd year players which had been reserve and ST players. I would think that warrants some "gel" time as well, but they have maintained a decent ranking while facing some of the highest powered offenses in the NFL.I'm fully aware of what you guys have done and it's very impressive.

That has nothing to do with KC though. We haven't been able to get the quick results that Dallas has. Maybe it's coaching, maybe it's talent, maybe it's both. The fact is, we added talent and they were slow to gel. They have steadily improved as the season has gone on, but the numbers are pretty skewed by some aweful defensive performances early in the year.

Someone asked why our defense sucks, and I gave reasons.They are reasons, not meant to be excuses. The fact that Dallas was able to overcome some of those same hurdles is a testament to your defense.

[Doomsday101]

Personally I think the biggest challenge Dallas faces against KC is Gonzalez not Larry Johnson. Dallas will be more than ready for the KC running game how we go about covering Gonzalez will be the big question

[jspchief]

You see what happens when you feed these trolls?

We end up wasting our time with useless, long threads like these.Is this BB not used to long threads filled with intelligent football discussion?

[brokeback]

I'm not going to get involved in this discussion except to ask a question and point out something you don't know about this Cowboys team. If your talking about 5 new starters compared to last years roster then you should be aware that last week against the Giants the Cowboys started 9 defensive players who didn't start for them last year.

Among them are 3 rookies, 3 players that we signed as free agents and 3 players which are 2nd or 3rd year players which had been reserve and ST players. I would think that warrants some "gel" time as well, but they have maintained a decent ranking while facing some of the highest powered offenses in the NFL.

You haven't faced the "highest powered offences in the NFL." You've got 1 impressive win this year, and it came in week 1. Conversely, you gave up more points to the 49ers than the Chiefs have given up to anyone all year.

[jspchief]

Personally I think the biggest challenge Dallas faces against KC is Gonzalez not Larry Johnson. Dallas will be more than ready for the KC running game how we go about covering Gonzalez will be the big questionI said the same thing on our Chiefs board. If your defense has a weakness, it would be the middle of your secondary (in pass coverage). gonzalez probably has the best chance to have a big day, if any Chiefs player does.

[TunaFan33]

Is this BB not used to long threads filled with intelligent football discussion?

No-was just wondering why Chiefs fans have nothing better to do.

Personally-I like Vermeil alot, and the Chiefs are a pretty darn good football team. However, it's not even noon yet, and aren't alot of you supposed to be busy at work and school?

[brokeback]

Personally I think the biggest challenge Dallas faces against KC is Gonzalez not Larry Johnson. Dallas will be more than ready for the KC running game how we go about covering Gonzalez will be the big question

Gonzalez is still a good TE, but he's not what he used to be. He gets a lot of catches and is more of a possession receiver than a game breaker now.

[brokeback]

No-was just wondering why Chiefs fans have nothing better to do.

Personally-I like Vermeil alot, and the Chiefs are a pretty darn good football team. However, it's not even noon yet, and aren't alot of you supposed to be busy at work and school?

No. We're chatting on the same board you are.

Pot, meet kettle.

[ChiefsGirl]

No-was just wondering why Chiefs fans have nothing better to do.

Personally-I like Vermeil alot, and the Chiefs are a pretty darn good football team. However, it's not even noon yet, and aren't alot of you supposed to be busy at work and school?

Don't tell my boss. :D

[Doomsday101]

I said the same thing on our Chiefs board. If your defense has a weakness, it would be the middle of your secondary (in pass coverage). gonzalez probably has the best chance to have a big day, if any Chiefs player does.

Well no doubt he presents a challenge for the Cowboys secondary. Dallas has had some good results and some bad results aginst some of the top TE in the league.

[Doomsday101]

Gonzalez is still a good TE, but he's not what he used to be. He gets a lot of catches and is more of a possession receiver than a game breaker now.

True but he is still the main target of Green leading all KC receivers with the 59 catches.

[mrecktid]

Why is everyone calling these Chiefs fans trolls?

They came here and asked a legitimate question and they get attacked by a few individuals for it.

They haven't responded harshly or egged on a flaming.

Can't we have a civilized discussion with fellow football fans?

Btw, to the question.

We gave up 100+ yards to Denver because Dayne made a good run in OT and we had some missed tackles. I'm not excusing the defense, I'm just giving the reason for the 100+ yards.

We gave up 100+ yards to the Giants because we were down 0-17. All Coughlin wanted to do was kill as much time as possible. So they ran the ball very often, the more you run, the closer you'll get to 100 yards which they achieved.

[brokeback]

True but he is still the main target of Green leading all KC receivers with the 59 catches.

True, but he's just not the weapon he used to be. He used to be a big-play guy similar to what Antonio Gates is now. His career is similar to Keyshawn's in that respect.

[TunaFan33]

Why is everyone calling these Chiefs fans trolls?

They came here and asked a legitimate question and they get attacked by a few individuals for it.

They haven't responded harshly or egged on a flaming.

Can't we have a civilized discussion with fellow football fans?



OK-maybe I was a bit harsh.

However-the bad thing about these discussions with fans of the other teams is that whatever we say and whatever they say will NOT change either's minds-which makes these discussions just go on, and on, and on like that Energizer Bunny-making alot of these arguments pointless on end.

Yes-we have a good run D. Yes-they too have a good run D. However-we're now having a pointless argument going into infinity how we suck, they suck, we rule, they rule, etc. Don't we have alot of work to finish up before our bosses light up our tails?

[brokeback]

Why is everyone calling these Chiefs fans trolls?

They came here and asked a legitimate question and they get attacked by a few individuals for it.

They haven't responded harshly or egged on a flaming.

Can't we have a civilized discussion with fellow football fans?

Btw, to the question.

We gave up 100+ yards to Denver because Dayne made a good run in OT and we had some missed tackles. I'm not excusing the defense, I'm just giving the reason for the 100+ yards.

The Broncos are incredibly good at breaking the big run. They've carved up the Chiefs on the ground like no other team over the years. That game made me sick.

[WoodysGirl]

OK-maybe I was a bit harsh.

However-the bad thing about these discussions with fans of the other teams is that whatever we say and whatever they say will NOT change either's minds-which makes these discussions just go on, and on, and on like that Energizer Bunny-making alot of these arguments pointless on end.

Yes-we have a good run D. Yes-they too have a good run D. However-we're now having a pointless argument going into infinity how we suck, they suck, we rule, they rule, etc. Don't we have alot of work to finish up before our bosses light up our tails?But that's the whole point of this discussion board. Do you realize how many "pointless" arguments are held everyday on this board about our very own cowboys among the fans? It's good to hear opposing fans views, even if we don't agree.

It's good discussion. Let's not be so territorial about the site that we can't allow other teams fans to come and hold a discussion about the upcoming game or any other football topics.

[TunaFan33]

The Broncos are incredibly good at breaking the big run. They've carved up the Chiefs on the ground like no other team over the years. That game made me sick.

That and thanks to Mike Shanahan's system-Plummer is looking like Joe Montana out there.

If Plummer were here and Bledsoe in Denver-Plummer would be stinking up the joint, and Bledsoe would STILL be lighting it up.

[mrecktid]

OK-maybe I was a bit harsh.

However-the bad thing about these discussions with fans of the other teams is that whatever we say and whatever they say will NOT change either's minds-which makes these discussions just go on, and on, and on like that Energizer Bunny-making alot of these arguments pointless on end.

Yes-we have a good run D. Yes-they too have a good run D. However-we're now having a pointless argument going into infinity how we suck, they suck, we rule, they rule, etc. Don't we have alot of work to finish up before our bosses light up our tails?

While I realize there are some discussiosn that go on and on. I'd rather have a discussion with a respectful Chiefs fans than a Deadskins/Gints/Iggles fan.

[jspchief]

But that's the whole point of this discussion board. Do you realize how many "pointless" arguments are held everyday on this board about our very own cowboys among the fans? It's good to hear opposing fans views, even if we don't agree.

It's good discussion. Let's not be so territorial about the site that we can't allow other teams fans to come and hold a discussion about the upcoming game or any other football topics.Exactly. We can all sit on our own sites and rehash the same dicussions with the same people every day. Or we can got find some new opinons from opposing fans, and discuss the week's matchup.

I'm not on a crusade to convert Cowboys, or even make them say nice things about my team. I'm just looking for some fresh perspectives.

[TunaFan33]

Exactly. We can all sit on our own sites and rehash the same dicussions with the same people every day. Or we can got find some new opinons from opposing fans, and discuss the week's matchup.

I'm not on a crusade to convert Cowboys, or even make them say nice things about my team. I'm just looking for some fresh perspectives.

Don't get me wrong-I'm not Chiefs fan, but they ARE a pretty good football team. What's most amazing about them is the positive attitude and energy a 70 year old coach brings to this team. And yes, any team with a dangerous TE is pretty scary too.

I'm just glad we're NOT playing at Arrowhead, that's all. If anything, the crowd noise was probably the Skins' ultimate undoing there.

[Next_years_Champs]

You haven't faced the "highest powered offences in the NFL." You've got 1 impressive win this year, and it came in week 1. Conversely, you gave up more points to the 49ers than the Chiefs have given up to anyone all year.


Wrong again! The Cowboys have faced a current top 10 rated offense 5 times this season.

#4 Seattle in Seattle which we lost 13 - 10 at the very end of the game.
#5 Denver at home we lost in OT 24 - 21. (7 of Denvers points were scored by their defense)
#6 San Diego in SD which we won 28 - 24. (this game was the first for our completely rebuilt defense)
#10 New York Giants twice winning in Dallas 16 - 13 and losing in NYC 17 - 10.

In addition to our first game wk 5 against Philadelphia who at the time had the #1 ranked offense which we won 33 -10.

Your team has faced only 2 top ten rated offenses.

#5 Denver twice losing one 30 - 10 and winning 31 - 27.
#6 San Diego which you lost 28 - 20.

We have indeed faced many of the top ranked offenses this year and have held our own defensively. We had some early season lapses but they have become less and less a factor as the defense played together.

[superpunk]

Because the opposing backs gained over 100 yards rushing.

Phenomenal answer.

[AmishCowboy]

After we beat the Chiefs on Sunday, you'll never see these Chiefs fans again, just like the Eagle fans have now gone away. BTW, It's funny that they called Bledsoe immobile when they have Green who is only upright because they have one of the best O-lines in football. :lmao:

[ChiefsGirl]

An immobile QB isn't a problem when you're not starting Torrin Tucker.

[TunaFan33]

An immobile QB isn't a problem when you're not starting Torren Tucker.

Yes-OL is the big key. However-Flozell Adams isn't a baby-sitter either.

Trent Green may be imobile, but he does alot of the little things to be mobile enough. When Roaf was out, he still played pretty well.

[ChiefsGirl]

Yes-OL is the big key. However-Flozell Adams isn't a baby-sitter either.

Trent Green may be imobile, but he does alot of the little things to be mobile enough. When Roaf was out, he still played pretty well.

Flozell Adams won't be playing Sunday, I think the Cowboys offense has dropped off a lot since his injury.

Of course, even Michael Vick wouldn't have escaped that missed block by Gurode last week.

[superpunk]

If anyone should be able to relate to the offensive problems the Cowboys are having now, it should be Chefs fans. It's all about the LT babay! You lose your LT, it screws everything up. I have Tony G on my fantasy team, I know. Early on, they were far less effective because of having to cover for Roaf's absence all the time.

[TunaFan33]

Flozell Adams won't be playing Sunday, I think the Cowboys offense has dropped off a lot since his injury.

Of course, even Michael Vick wouldn't have escaped that missed block by Gurode last week.

Nah-we already had OL problems from the word GO.

I agree that the LT position is the biggest key to the OL, but we already had problems at C and the right side to begin with. IOW-we were one blow away from it being desimated completely. Hopefully-Bill P will get OLs in the draft next year like he did gangbusters D in last year's draft.

FWIW-when Adams was gone in that second half of the Gints game a couple of months ago, Bledsoe DID cooly lead the game-winning drive in OT. IOW-his poor play of recent has been mostly on him.

[brokeback]

After we beat the Chiefs on Sunday, you'll never see these Chiefs fans again, just like the Eagle fans have now gone away. BTW, It's funny that they called Bledsoe immobile when they have Green who is only upright because they have one of the best O-lines in football. :lmao:

Green doesn't run, but he's got excellent footwork inside the pocket. He's as good as anyone at dodging a defender who seems to have him dead to rites. Besides, his lack of mobility isn't an issue because he can balance his checkbook in the pocket while being protected by 3 (and sometimes as many as 4) players who were in the Probowl last year based solely on their blocking ability.

Bledsoe, on the other hand, does get hurt by his lack of mobility because his line isn't the best.

[brokeback]

If anyone should be able to relate to the offensive problems the Cowboys are having now, it should be Chefs fans. It's all about the LT babay! You lose your LT, it screws everything up. I have Tony G on my fantasy team, I know. Early on, they were far less effective because of having to cover for Roaf's absence all the time.

Ain't that the truth. Willie Roaf's return has changed EVERYTHING. Jordan Black was little more than an annoyance to D-Linemen.

[CrazyCowboy]

LJ is a stud and on my fantasy team......but, he is playing my real team the Dallas Cowboys.......therefore, he is on the bench!

[1fisher]

Wrong again! The Cowboys have faced a current top 10 rated offense 5 times this season.

#4 Seattle in Seattle which we lost 13 - 10 at the very end of the game.
#5 Denver at home we lost in OT 24 - 21. (7 of Denvers points were scored by their defense)
#6 San Diego in SD which we won 28 - 24. (this game was the first for our completely rebuilt defense)
#10 New York Giants twice winning in Dallas 16 - 13 and losing in NYC 17 - 10.

In addition to our first game wk 5 against Philadelphia who at the time had the #1 ranked offense which we won 33 -10.

Your team has faced only 2 top ten rated offenses.

#5 Denver twice losing one 30 - 10 and winning 31 - 27.
#6 San Diego which you lost 28 - 20.

We have indeed faced many of the top ranked offenses this year and have held our own defensively. We had some early season lapses but they have become less and less a factor as the defense played together.

Thanks for pointing that out to broke back...... I'm sure he didn't take the time to check scoring for those teams before he posted...... that ought to shut him up..... :D

[brokeback]

That's a big mistake. The guy's a monster. Don't let homerism kill your FF team.

[1fisher]

After we beat the Chiefs on Sunday, you'll never see these Chiefs fans again, just like the Eagle fans have now gone away. BTW, It's funny that they called Bledsoe immobile when they have Green who is only upright because they have one of the best O-lines in football. :lmao:

You are right AC...... the only way we will hear from them again is if the Chefs win.......

[Tobal]

We miss our injured players just like every team.

Our weak link on defense is Fujita replacing Singleton, but he is improving. We also miss Henry in run support, guy is a beast supporting the run on the corner.

The only games we've been ran on were games where we didn't expect them to run, for some reason we just can't adjust during the game. Those games were San Fran, Oakland, and Philly.

Adams being hurt makes 7 step drops a thing of the past and we can only call 5 step drops occasionally. Bldesoe doesn't perform well as a 3 step drop guy.

[brokeback]

Thanks for pointing that out to broke back...... I'm sure he didn't take the time to check scoring for those teams before he posted...... that ought to shut him up..... :D

Not really. I never said the Chiefs shut down a bunch of great offenses. San Diego scored a lot of points on you. That wasn't exactly a shutout. They got into the Endzone 3 times. Philly's no juggernaut and neither is NY. You really slowed down Seattle, but you lost. You slowed down Denver some, but you lost. The Bears have a great defense. The Panthers have an excellent defense. The Cowboys have a good defense. That's not an insult. It's just the truth. Teams with GREAT defenses don't have 7-5 records in a lousy conference. Period.

[brokeback]

You are right AC...... the only way we will hear from them again is if the Chefs win.......

We take our lumps. You're not a rival, though, so we won't be here 2 or 3 weeks from now or anything.

[jspchief]

You are right AC...... the only way we will hear from them again is if the Chefs win.......Nah. I'll be in to congratulate you on the win. It's not like I'm in here making bold predictions, so there's no reason to shy away from here after the game.

It won't come until late Monday or Tuesday, because I don't get back from Dallas until then, but I'll be back, win or lose.

[ROMOSAPIEN9]

Why did you guys give up over 100 yards rushing the last two games?

Because we weren't playing the Chiefs. :D

[1fisher]

Not really. I never said the Chiefs shut down a bunch of great offenses. San Diego scored a lot of points on you. That wasn't exactly a shutout. They got into the Endzone 3 times. Philly's no juggernaut and neither is NY. You really slowed down Seattle, but you lost. You slowed down Denver some, but you lost. The Bears have a great defense. The Panthers have an excellent defense. The Cowboys have a good defense. That's not an insult. It's just the truth. Teams with GREAT defenses don't have 7-5 records in a lousy conference. Period.

re-read your post brokeback...... you said WE didn't play any high scoring offenses...... Fact is, WE DID and we held the points relatively low except for Denver.....Sounds like you just want to argue......geez.

[superpunk]

Not really. I never said the Chiefs shut down a bunch of great offenses. San Diego scored a lot of points on you. That wasn't exactly a shutout. They got into the Endzone 3 times. Philly's no juggernaut and neither is NY. You really slowed down Seattle, but you lost. You slowed down Denver some, but you lost. The Bears have a great defense. The Panthers have an excellent defense. The Cowboys have a good defense. That's not an insult. It's just the truth. Teams with GREAT defenses don't have 7-5 records in a lousy conference. Period.

Team Points Allowed Team PPG Difference

San Diego-24---29.8---+5.8
Washington 14---20.1--- +6.1
San Francico 31---- 15.2---- -15.8
Oakland 19----- 20.8----- +1.8
Philly 10----- 20.8----- +10.8
NY Giants 13----- 26.6----- +13.6
Seattle 13----- 26.9----- +13.9
Arizona 13----- 19.9----- +6.9
Philly 20------ 20.8----- +.8
Detroit 7----- 15.8----- +8.8
Denver 24----- 25.8------ +1.8
NY Giants 17----- 26.6------ +9.9

We've held teams below their averages in all but 1 game this year. We've held top 10 offenses to around 10 points below their average output. When you compare the offenses we've faced, with the ones teams like Chicago, Carolina and Tampa have faced, it's not even close;

Average offensive rankings of teams faced;

Carolina - 21.4
Tampa Bay - 21.6
Chicago - 21.0
Dallas - 12.9

This is a great defense, dude, and it's only getting better.


(edit-why the heck doesn't it hold the spacing on my little chart? Had to put in stupid dashes.....)

[1fisher]

Nah. I'll be in to congratulate you on the win. It's not like I'm in here making bold predictions, so there's no reason to shy away from here after the game.

It won't come until late Monday or Tuesday, because I don't get back from Dallas until then, but I'll be back, win or lose.

I'll be looking for you win lose or draw.

[brokeback]

re-read your post brokeback...... you said WE didn't play any high scoring offenses...... Fact is, WE DID and we held the points relatively low except for Denver.....Sounds like you just want to argue......geez.

Why don't you go ahead and quote the part where I said you didn't play any high scoring offenses? I would guess you didn't quote it because I didn't say it. You've played some good offenses, but you haven't shut down a bunch of the top offenses, especially those in the AFC. San Diego and Denver each racked up plenty of points. You haven't played Indy. You haven't played Cincy. You haven't played KC.
You've played 3 AFC teams, all in our division. You've given up over 3 TDs a game on average. You have a good defense. You don't have an elite defense. Again, teams with great defenses don't go 7-5 in a terrible conference. You can't possibly refute this.

[brokeback]

This is a great defense, dude, and it's only getting better.

Teams with great defenses don't go 7-5 in a terrible conference. Teams with great defenses don't give up 31 points to San Francisco.
You're not Chicago. You're not Carolina. You're not a great defensive team. You are a good defensive team.

[DBoys]

Chief fans welcome to the NFC East. The next two games you will be playing physical football more than you have all year long.

Chiefs are not a very good road team and you are coming to our house.
Dallas DL is really good (They have shutdown some really good RB's) with a nice rotation of players.
Ware and James are playing really well and Fujita had his best game last week.
With Henry back healthy I feel Dallas has the best 3 CB's in the league in Newman, Glenn, and Henry.
Having Henry back also allows us to take more chances and blitz. You will see the D return to a more agressive form.

P.S. Dallas OL sucks

[WoodysGirl]

Teams with great defenses don't go 7-5 in a terrible conference. Teams with great defenses don't give up 31 points to San Francisco.
You're not Chicago. You're not Carolina. You're not a great defensive team. You are a good defensive team.You keep saying the NFC is a terrible conference. I think you overrate the talent gap between the AFC and the NFC.

In head to head play the conferences are at 24-24

In looking at these stats:

AFC east - three teams under .500
AFC west - two teams under .500
AFC south - two teams under .500
AFC west - one team under .500

AFC 8 teams under .500

NFC east - one team under .500 and one at .500
NFC north - two teams under .500
NFC south - one team under .500
NFC west - 3 teams under .500

NFC 7-16 teams under .500 w/1 at .500

I'd say looking at these numbers, both conferences have their share of middle of the pack teams w/only Indy qualifying as an elite team.

As far as defenses go, I wouldn't put Carolina before Dallas. I'd say even. I'd put Chicago ahead, defensively.

Giving up 31 to SF while the D was still gelling does not take away the talent on the Dallas squad. Your talking about game that happened two months ago. You say a 7-5 can't have an elite D. I disagree. Two many of our games have been lost in the 4th quarter due to uneven offensive play that you can't hold all those losses against the D.

[1fisher]

Why don't you go ahead and quote the part where I said you didn't play any high scoring offenses? I would guess you didn't quote it because I didn't say it. You've played some good offenses, but you haven't shut down a bunch of the top offenses, especially those in the AFC. San Diego and Denver each racked up plenty of points. You haven't played Indy. You haven't played Cincy. You haven't played KC.
You've played 3 AFC teams, all in our division. You've given up over 3 TDs a game on average. You have a good defense. You don't have an elite defense. Again, teams with great defenses don't go 7-5 in a terrible conference. You can't possibly refute this.


page 3 and here's your direct words..... copied and pasted....You haven't faced the "highest powered offences in the NFL." You've got 1 impressive win this year, and it came in week 1. Conversely, you gave up more points to the 49ers than the Chiefs have given up to anyone all year.


I'll leave you with that because it's apparent neither is going to budge..........

[cwbyfan72]

Teams with great defenses don't go 7-5 in a terrible conference. Teams with great defenses don't give up 31 points to San Francisco.
You're not Chicago. You're not Carolina. You're not a great defensive team. You are a good defensive team.

Great defenses hold the top rated offenses under 14 pts 3 weeks in a row. Make key plays to determine outcome of games in their favor. (see Chargers,Eagles,Giants,). Keep thinking our defense isnt gonna bring it on Sunday. I love all the confidence in Chef land, I really do.

[1fisher]

Great defenses hold the top rated offenses under 14 pts 3 weeks in a row. Make key plays to determine outcome of games in their favor. (see Chargers,Eagles,Giants,). Keep thinking our defense isnt gonna bring it on Sunday. I love all the confidence in Chef land, I really do.


brokeback is what the Chefs could be after this Sunday! :D

[DBoys]

brokeback is a blind homer pure and simple

[sacase]

I can tell you right now, if you can't run the ball, you won't have much success passing it, especially with a QB that can't move.

I like our run D vs your run O.

As for LJ vs your run D, I guess it is the unstoppable force vs the immovable object. Should be a great matchup! I guess we can't fault each other for being confident.

You know I kinda like Chiefs fans, they actually try and talk football and not smack.

Now to your statement, I would hardly say you are the unstoppable force and we are the immovable object. We shut LT down this year in SD and he is THE BEST running back in the NFL hands down. LJ is good, but he is not LT good. I would not expect a good game from him. It may happen, but honestly a good day for him would be 75 yards or so. on 20-25 carries.

[superpunk]

Teams with great defenses don't go 7-5 in a terrible conference. Teams with great defenses don't give up 31 points to San Francisco.
You're not Chicago. You're not Carolina. You're not a great defensive team. You are a good defensive team.

Did you even bother looking at the numbers I've posted? Terrible conference? Psssshhhh. The NFC is just as good as the AFC now, save one great team in the Colts. I showed you what we did to some of the best offenses in the league. Chicago and Carolina haven't had to face the caliber of teams the Cowboys have. I don't think Dallas is as good as Chicago, but I'd put them above Carolina. You gotta look beyond the numbers sometimes, kid.

[ChiefsGirl]

You know I kinda like Chiefs fans, they actually try and talk football and not smack.

Now to your statement, I would hardly say you are the unstoppable force and we are the immovable object. We shut LT down this year in SD and he is THE BEST running back in the NFL hands down. LJ is good, but he is not LT good. I would not expect a good game from him. It may happen, but honestly a good day for him would be 75 yards or so. on 20-25 carries.

LT is the best overall back, running, receiving and throwing but he's not the best running RB in the league. The Eagles held him to 7 yards once this year. I'm more impressed with how the Cows handled Shaun Alexander.

It should be a good old fashioned smash-mouth game. I'm glad I'll be there.

[ChiefsGirl]

Cows

I think I've listened to Randy Galloway too many times. :D

[DBoys]

I think I've listened to Randy Galloway too many times. :D

:laugh2:

[Chief3188]

You know I kinda like Chiefs fans, they actually try and talk football and not smack.

Now to your statement, I would hardly say you are the unstoppable force and we are the immovable object. We shut LT down this year in SD and he is THE BEST running back in the NFL hands down. LJ is good, but he is not LT good. I would not expect a good game from him. It may happen, but honestly a good day for him would be 75 yards or so. on 20-25 carries.

LJ has done better than LT since he got the startng nod this year. LJ is only about 70 yards behind LT in rushing yards. LT has been shut down by the Chiefs, Broncos, Cowboys, Eagles etc.... LT is not as good as advertised. He is a great back and has moves like Sanders but he can be tackled way to easy with a simple arm tackle because he does not have much power. Not saying LJ can not be shut down but I am just confident in him since he put up 140 on a better run defense than Dallas has but each game is different so who knows.

[AdamJT13]

Team Points Allowed Team PPG Difference

San Diego-24---29.8---+5.8
Washington 14---20.1--- +6.1
San Francico 31---- 15.2---- -15.8
Oakland 19----- 20.8----- +1.8
Philly 10----- 20.8----- +10.8
NY Giants 13----- 26.6----- +13.6
Seattle 13----- 26.9----- +13.9
Arizona 13----- 19.9----- +6.9
Philly 20------ 20.8----- +.8
Detroit 7----- 15.8----- +8.8
Denver 24----- 25.8------ +1.8
NY Giants 17----- 26.6------ +9.9

Keep in mind that San Francisco, Philadelphia, Denver and the Giants all scored touchdowns against our offense or special teams, not our defense. And Seattle got a field goal when our defense never had a chance to step on the field.

[superpunk]

Keep in mind that San Francisco, Philadelphia, Denver and the Giants all scored touchdowns against our offense or special teams, not our defense. And Seattle got a field goal when our defense never had a chance to step on the field.

Excellent points. I think if you take away the defensive TDs, we average somewhere in the 15 ppg range. Unfortunately, we DID give those points up, soooooo.....

[1fisher]

Keep in mind that San Francisco, Philadelphia, Denver and the Giants all scored touchdowns against our offense or special teams, not our defense. And Seattle got a field goal when our defense never had a chance to step on the field.


nice.... I think people look at the score in general and don't bother to look at points by special teams and points off turnovers by the opposing defense..... that's huge! It's a shame that Denver and NY had to beat us because of turnovers....... :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

[superpunk]

We have had 2 INTs and 2 fumbles returned for TDs. Without that, our ppg allowed drops to 14.8, which would be good enough for 3rd in theleague, against much tougher competition than either Indy or Chicago has had to face.

[brokeback]

page 3 and here's your direct words..... copied and pasted....You haven't faced the "highest powered offences in the NFL." You've got 1 impressive win this year, and it came in week 1. Conversely, you gave up more points to the 49ers than the Chiefs have given up to anyone all year.


I'll leave you with that because it's apparent neither is going to budge..........

I said you haven't faced the highest powered offences (Colts, Bengals, Chiefs). I did not say what you accused me of saying ie. you have not faced a single high powered offense. You've played 3 AFC teams, all in the Chiefs' division. You're 1-2 and have given up over 21 points per game.
The teams you're using to puff out your chest over are average to good offenses (Giants, Eagles, Seahawks). The Seahawks game was your most impressive defensive performance of the season and you still lost the game. Now you're without your starting MLB and have 2 banged up CBs. I stand by my statement. You have a good D. You do not have a great D. Good defenses keep their teams in games. Great defenses win games.

[brokeback]

We have had 2 INTs and 2 fumbles returned for TDs. Without that, our ppg allowed drops to 14.8, which would be good enough for 3rd in theleague, against much tougher competition than either Indy or Chicago has had to face.
It's very convenient to take away those points from your defense's stats but not the rest of the league's. It just doesn't prove anything.

[superpunk]

It's very convenient to take away those points from your defense's stats but not the rest of the league's. It just doesn't prove anything.

Fine. I checked it both ways. We would be 4th. Carolina would sneak past us at 14.5 ppg. It's just too bad we're not on their level. You'd think that we could manage more than .1 ppg defensively while facing competition an average of 8 spots (offensively) higher, but we just couldn't get it done. :rolleyes:

[jobberone]

Because the opposing backs gained over 100 yards rushing.

You are Yogi Berra or a big fan. Loved it. Classic. :)

[aikemirv]

I said you haven't faced the highest powered offences (Colts, Bengals, Chiefs). I did not say what you accused me of saying ie. you have not faced a single high powered offense. You've played 3 AFC teams, all in the Chiefs' division. You're 1-2 and have given up over 21 points per game.
The teams you're using to puff out your chest over are average to good offenses (Giants, Eagles, Seahawks). The Seahawks game was your most impressive defensive performance of the season and you still lost the game. Now you're without your starting MLB and have 2 banged up CBs. I stand by my statement. You have a good D. You do not have a great D. Good defenses keep their teams in games. Great defenses win games.

Did you watch the Philly game - our D won that one. How about the NYG game, Aaron Glen and the D gave the offense 5 chances to score in the last qtr and a half.

D was responsible for two TD's in the last 3 games - thats pretty great if you ask me. Neutralized Eli Manning to the point that the Giants were afraid to pass the ball at the end of the game last week.

[1fisher]

I said you haven't faced the highest powered offences (Colts, Bengals, Chiefs). I did not say what you accused me of saying ie. you have not faced a single high powered offense. You've played 3 AFC teams, all in the Chiefs' division. You're 1-2 and have given up over 21 points per game.
The teams you're using to puff out your chest over are average to good offenses (Giants, Eagles, Seahawks). The Seahawks game was your most impressive defensive performance of the season and you still lost the game. Now you're without your starting MLB and have 2 banged up CBs. I stand by my statement. You have a good D. You do not have a great D. Good defenses keep their teams in games. Great defenses win games.

you should have been more specific with your initial post.......the offense (correct spelling) gave up points on turnovers to help that 21 points you came up with......

Our Defense did not give up points off turnovers in those losses...

Denver int returned for TD.... loss
Seattle int returned for game winning FG......loss
NYSG fumble returned for TD....loss

the defense actually held them to 17 points or less....

[superpunk]

you should have been more specific with your initial post.......the offense (correct spelling) gave up points on turnovers to help that 21 points you came up with......

Our Defense did not give up points off turnovers in those losses...

Denver int returned for TD.... loss
Seattle int returned for TD..... loss
NYSG fumble returned for TD....loss

the defense actually held them to 17 points or less....

Seattle didn't return a TD on us, it was SF.

[1fisher]

Did you watch the Philly game - our D won that one. How about the NYG game, Aaron Glen and the D gave the offense 5 chances to score in the last qtr and a half.

D was responsible for two TD's in the last 3 games - thats pretty great if you ask me. Neutralized Eli Manning to the point that the Giants were afraid to pass the ball at the end of the game last week.

aik..... the 26 year old doesn't "get it"........ I think he just wants to hear us say our defense sucks and KC's doesn't.... I guess we'll have to find out Sunday.

[brokeback]

Fine. I checked it both ways. We would be 4th. Carolina would sneak past us at 14.5 ppg. It's just too bad we're not on their level. You'd think that we could manage more than .1 ppg defensively while facing competition an average of 8 spots (offensively) higher, but we just couldn't get it done. :rolleyes:
I'm not denying you have a good defense.
Carolina's defense wins games. Dallas's defense keeps games close. All of your woulda shoulda coulda hypotheticals don't amount to anything. Chicago and Carolina have pathetic offenses, but they have won a lot of games because their defense carries them. The same could be said for Jacksonville.
Your overall defensive numbers are good, but 5 of the top 6 offenses in the NFL are found in the AFC. You've played 3 teams from our division and have given up over 21 ppg against them for a combined record of 1-2. We have played 5 games against those same teams and have a combined record of 3-2. We've played 2 NFC teams, both in your division, and have gashed them for 30 ppg. I don't expect to score 30 on Sunday, but I'd be surprised if we don't score at least 20, probably around 24.

[1fisher]

Seattle didn't return a TD on us, it was SF.

I corrected it....... return for game winning FG...

[DBoys]

I'm not denying you have a good defense.
Carolina's defense wins games. Dallas's defense keeps games close. All of your woulda shoulda coulda hypotheticals don't amount to anything. Chicago and Carolina have pathetic offenses, but they have won a lot of games because their defense carries them. The same could be said for Jacksonville.
Your overall defensive numbers are good, but 5 of the top 6 offenses in the NFL are found in the AFC. You've played 3 teams from our division and have given up over 21 ppg against them for a combined record of 1-2. We have played 5 games against those same teams and have a combined record of 3-2. We've played 2 NFC teams, both in your division, and have gashed them for 30 ppg. I don't expect to score 30 on Sunday, but I'd be surprised if we don't score at least 20, probably around 24.

You won't score over 14 Henry is back.

[DMX690]

Yeah, i think Larry Johnson going to set the running record on us this Sunday, and the Chief are going to destroy this overrated defence of the Dallas Cowboys. We have no chance this sunday afternoon

[jspchief]

You won't score over 14 Henry is back.I'll be shocked if we're held under 20. The only time that's happened this year has been in games where we were missing both our starting tackles. With Roaf healthy, we're a tough offense to hold down.

[brokeback]

aik..... the 26 year old doesn't "get it"........ I think he just wants to hear us say our defense sucks and KC's doesn't.... I guess we'll have to find out Sunday.
Evidently the 37 year old doesn't "get it". I've done nothing but say your defense is good. I've been dead on with my comments, and I've backed them up with facts and stats. That's why the brokeback fans like yourself have had to create strawmen.
I say your defense is good. You argue that I said they suck.
I say that you haven't faced the top offenses in the NFL ie. Cincy, Indy, and KC. AIK argues that I said they haven't faced a single good offense.
I've done nothing but bring up specifec points. You respond in bizarre absolutes.

[brokeback]

You won't score over 14 Henry is back.

That's possible. It would only be the 3rd time this year we've been held under 23, though. It would be the first time we've been held under 26 with a healthy O-line.

[Chief3188]

You won't score over 14 Henry is back.

Sure thing there skippy

[superpunk]

I'm not denying you have a good defense.
Carolina's defense wins games. Dallas's defense keeps games close. All of your woulda shoulda coulda hypotheticals don't amount to anything. Chicago and Carolina have pathetic offenses, but they have won a lot of games because their defense carries them. The same could be said for Jacksonville.
Your overall defensive numbers are good, but 5 of the top 6 offenses in the NFL are found in the AFC. You've played 3 teams from our division and have given up over 21 ppg against them for a combined record of 1-2. We have played 5 games against those same teams and have a combined record of 3-2. We've played 2 NFC teams, both in your division, and have gashed them for 30 ppg. I don't expect to score 30 on Sunday, but I'd be surprised if we don't score at least 20, probably around 24.

So, holding some of the highest scoring offenses in the league well below their scoring average isn't winning games? The defense is putting the team in position to win. Whether it be the offense or the kicking game, it's been other factors losing games for us. If Carolina and Chicago had to play OUR schedule, you can bet your *** they'd have a similar record as us. The fact is, they play inferior competition, and can get away with inferior offensive performances when they come up.

[Chief3188]

So, holding some of the highest scoring offenses in the league well below their scoring average isn't winning games? The defense is putting the team in position to win. Whether it be the offense or the kicking game, it's been other factors losing games for us. If Carolina and Chicago had to play OUR schedule, you can bet your *** they'd have a similar record as us. The fact is, they play inferior competition, and can get away with inferior offensive performances when they come up.

I have to give Dallas props - They have been within one play of winning every game this year. Kudos -- Should be a good game Sunday and let the best team win.

[1fisher]

I'm not denying you have a good defense.
Carolina's defense wins games. Dallas's defense keeps games close. All of your woulda shoulda coulda hypotheticals don't amount to anything. Chicago and Carolina have pathetic offenses, but they have won a lot of games because their defense carries them. The same could be said for Jacksonville.
Your overall defensive numbers are good, but 5 of the top 6 offenses in the NFL are found in the AFC. You've played 3 teams from our division and have given up over 21 ppg against them for a combined record of 1-2. We have played 5 games against those same teams and have a combined record of 3-2. We've played 2 NFC teams, both in your division, and have gashed them for 30 ppg. I don't expect to score 30 on Sunday, but I'd be surprised if we don't score at least 20, probably around 24.

your math is fuzzy.... you need to average what was actually scored on the defense and do not count int's or fumbles returned by the opposing team for TD's.... That stat does not count against the defense! Or maybe it does by your agenda???????

yea, you really gashed them! 29 point average.... pretty impressive... youngster

[aikemirv]

Sure thing there skippy


So, you guys know where to find us come Monday, Where do we find you?

[baj1dallas]

It wasn't Dat because he was more effective against the pass then the run with respect to Shanle.

I'd say the main reason Dallas gave up so many yards was missed assignments. I think if Fujita continues to play well, and Ferguson bothers to show up, the Boys will keep LJ to around 100 yards with not TDs. Look at Roy early to see whether he is playing the run aggressively or not, I think that will be telling as to how the game is gonna go.

[1fisher]

Evidently the 37 year old doesn't "get it". I've done nothing but say your defense is good. I've been dead on with my comments, and I've backed them up with facts and stats. That's why the brokeback fans like yourself have had to create strawmen.
I say your defense is good. You argue that I said they suck.
I say that you haven't faced the top offenses in the NFL ie. Cincy, Indy, and KC. AIK argues that I said they haven't faced a single good offense.
I've done nothing but bring up specifec points. You respond in bizarre absolutes.

I don't have time for you right now..... see ya Monday.

[Chief3188]

So, you guys know where to find us come Monday, Where do we find you?


At the bar still celebrating :D

[brokeback]

So, holding some of the highest scoring offenses in the league well below their scoring average isn't winning games?
Ummmmmmm no. Winning games is giving up fewer points than the other team gives up. It can also be described as scoring more points than the other team scores. It can not, however, be defined as "holding some of the highest scoring offenses in the league well below their scoring average". You see, the league doesn't keep that stat. That's why it takes so much work to decipher who holds some of the highest scoring offenses in the league well below their scoring average. It's not really of any particular consequence.
For example when you held Washington to 14, Oakland to 19, NY to 17, and Seattle to 13, you didn't technically "win the game" in the classic sense inasmuchas you lost the game each time. It's confusing sometimes I know. I'll type slower so you can keep up.

[1fisher]

At the bar still celebrating :D

I think we've seen more Chiefs trolls.... er uh, fans than any other trolls...fans.... this season.

$10 says Vermile sheds a tear this week win or lose! Anybody in?

[Doomsday101]

At the bar still celebrating :D

You celebrate after a loss? LOL
If your lucky Vermile will sit down and have a few drinks with you as he cries the night away. You know how the man loves to cry. LOL

[Doomsday101]

I think we've seen more Chiefs trolls.... er uh, fans than any other trolls...fans.... this season.

$10 says Vermile sheds a tear this week win or lose! Anybody in?

Old Dick is going to cry no matter what. Heck I'm crying at the thought of him crying. I have never seen a professional coach cry as much as that man. LOL

[ChiefsGirl]

Vermeil only cries after wins.

[brokeback]

your math is fuzzy.... you need to average what was actually scored on the defense and do not count int's or fumbles returned by the opposing team for TD's.... That stat does not count against the defense! Or maybe it does by your agenda???????

yea, you really gashed them! 29 point average.... pretty impressive... youngster

Considering the Cowboys have scored as many as 29 points in a game only 3 times this year, I'd say that's a lot of points. Feel free to keep bringing up my age. It may add to your sense of self-rightousness, but it doesn't do much for your credibility.

[ChiefsGirl]

So, you guys know where to find us come Monday, Where do we find you?

I think you can find most of us at www.chiefsplanet.com (http://www.chiefsplanet.com) .

[Doomsday101]

Vermeil only cries after wins.

Then he is getting a bit better because he cried at the drop of a hat with the Rams and Eagles. You start asking him questions and the eyes swell and the tears start falling. LOL

[brokeback]

Old Dick is going to cry no matter what. Heck I'm crying at the thought of him crying. I have never seen a professional coach cry as much as that man. LOL

The man does cry a lot.

[jspchief]

$10 says Vermile sheds a tear this week win or lose! Anybody in?I won't take that bet. But I will bet that on every opposing board a Chiefs fan goes to, somebody tries to run lame "Vermeil cries" smack.

The dude cries. A lot. Win or lose, he's weeping like a three year old that lost his woobie. I'm pretty sure we're used to it.

I'm just glad my aging coach hasn't resorted to bad dye jobs in an attempt to look good for his media lap dogs.

[Chief3188]

I think we've seen more Chiefs trolls.... er uh, fans than any other trolls...fans.... this season.

$10 says Vermile sheds a tear this week win or lose! Anybody in?

Vermeil crys when he is happy so I think he might shed a tear also lol -- I am not trolling if you have seen any of my posts you would know that. Just having a friendly conversation but sorry I dont agree with homers making predictions that the Chiefs will be lucky to score more than 14 -- We have a better offense than Denver

[brokeback]

I think you can find most of us at www.chiefsplanet.com (http://www.chiefsplanet.com) .

I'm Saul Good over there. Brokeback just seemed appropriate for this week what with the movie about gay cowboys eating pudding coming out and all.

[Doomsday101]

The man does cry a lot.

Back with the eagles I thought is was almost touching but after years of seeing him cry I think it is hilarious now.

[superpunk]

Ummmmmmm no. Winning games is giving up fewer points than the other team gives up. It can also be described as scoring more points than the other team scores. It can not, however, be defined as "holding some of the highest scoring offenses in the league well below their scoring average". You see, the league doesn't keep that stat. That's why it takes so much work to decipher who holds some of the highest scoring offenses in the league well below their scoring average. It's not really of any particular consequence.
For example when you held Washington to 14, Oakland to 19, NY to 17, and Seattle to 13, you didn't technically "win the game" in the classic sense inasmuchas you lost the game each time. It's confusing sometimes I know. I'll type slower so you can keep up.

OK, I mistyped. They put the team in position to win the game. Nice attempt at some lame-*** sarcasm, though.

[jspchief]

So, you guys know where to find us come Monday, Where do we find you?If you come to Chiefsplanet, you better do it before the game.

People that only come in post-game usually don't fare too well over there.

[Chief3188]

Back with the eagles I thought is was almost touching but after years of seeing him cry I think it is hilarious now.

I find it amusing but yet refreshing. Instead of putting on the fake hard *** look that most coaches do he shows his emotions and you actually know that he cares about his team and its players and its fans. More than you can say about a lot of other coaches in this league. What had me cracking up though was Parcells smacking his other coach like a child. Now that was pure comedy.

[sacase]

Brokeback

Fact is, your team is a run based team. You have score running the ball, however Dallas's run D is great, we have allowed only one hundred yard rusher this season and that was Tiki Barber. Please don't insult us by saying LJ is just as good or better then LT, he is not. If he was that good then he would have been starting already for someone. Even PH is not as good or complete as LT.

Dallas's corners will shut your passing game down, it's just not that good. Honestly for KC to win this game they will have to have a HUGE game from Gonzolez. Yes the AFC is known for having Some of the best offenses, but their defenses are truly pathetic. Fact is we have allowed 800 yards less in passing that you have. We have allowed 9 less touchdowns in the air and 1 less rushing touchdown. We may surrender yards, but we don't give up points. KC has 8 less sacks that us. You line may hold up but our defense is stout and stong. It KC scores more then 17 I will be suprised. LJ 75 yards 1 TD Cowboys 20-13.

[brokeback]

OK, I mistyped. They put the team in position to win the game. Nice attempt at some lame-*** sarcasm, though.
That's still not the same as winning. It also happens to be the biggest difference between a good defense and a great defense.
As far as your last comment goes, I thought it was excellent sarcasm. I'll try to do better next time, though.

[jspchief]

Brokeback

Fact is, your team is a run based team. You have score running the ball, however Dallas's run D is great, we have allowed only one hundred yard rusher this season and that was Tiki Barber. Please don't insult us by saying LJ is just as good or better then LT, he is not. If he was that good then he would have been starting already for someone. Even PH is not as good or complete as LT.

Dallas's corners will shut your passing game down, it's just not that good. Honestly for KC to win this game they will have to have a HUGE game from Gonzolez. Yes the AFC is known for having Some of the best offenses, but their defenses are truly pathetic. Fact is we have allowed 800 yards less in passing that you have. We have allowed 9 less touchdowns in the air and 1 less rushing touchdown. We may surrender yards, but we don't give up points. KC has 8 less sacks that us. You line may hold up but our defense is stout and stong. It KC scores more then 17 I will be suprised. LJ 75 yards 1 TD Cowboys 20-13.I think you might be suprised by what our passing offense is capable of. We certainly prefer to run the ball, but we've been one of the most prolific passing offense in the league for 4 years straight. Trent Green has only been rivaled by Manning over the last 3 years.

[superpunk]

That's still not the same as winning. It also happens to be the biggest difference between a good defense and a great defense.
As far as your last comment goes, I thought it was excellent sarcasm. I'll try to do better next time, though.

So how exactly did we "win" 7 games? Was that all our offense? Let's see, our defense makes a great goal line stand in San Diego, Shuts down Philly, returns an INT for a TD in Philly to win the game, shut down Arizona, shut down the Giants, what more do you want from them? You say we're not in the same class as Chicago or Carolina? We've played a much tougher schedule than either, and have numbers that are nearly as good. Sorry, our defense is great. Unfortunately, our kicking game has sucked this year. You can keep trying to blame our defense, but your trolling comments hold no water.

I'll let you know when you say something even remotely resembling comedy. It hasn't happened yet. Good luck.

[Chief3188]

Brokeback

Fact is, your team is a run based team. You have score running the ball, however Dallas's run D is great, we have allowed only one hundred yard rusher this season and that was Tiki Barber. Please don't insult us by saying LJ is just as good or better then LT, he is not. If he was that good then he would have been starting already for someone. Even PH is not as good or complete as LT.

Dallas's corners will shut your passing game down, it's just not that good. Honestly for KC to win this game they will have to have a HUGE game from Gonzolez. Yes the AFC is known for having Some of the best offenses, but their defenses are truly pathetic. Fact is we have allowed 800 yards less in passing that you have. We have allowed 9 less touchdowns in the air and 1 less rushing touchdown. We may surrender yards, but we don't give up points. KC has 8 less sacks that us. You line may hold up but our defense is stout and stong. It KC scores more then 17 I will be suprised. LJ 75 yards 1 TD Cowboys 20-13.

LT is overrated -- He has been shut down by the Chiefs, Broncos, Cowboys, Eagles etc.... LJ has not been shut down since taking the starting job and LJ only has 70 yards less than LT and that is only starting 5 games and having 10 to 12 carries in the previous 7 games. Our passing game suffered early in the year due to missing 3 Olineman but since we have been put back together on the Oline our passing game is dominating once again - Just ask Denver, New England, San Diego etc... The Chiefs have not allowed a 100 yard rusher in 19 games and while I know that Jones is getting healthy again we have shut down much better than him too like LT, Jordan, Martin, Westbrook, Portis, Brown and Williams, Mgahee, Davis etc..... and our passing defense has improved by strides since the return of our other CB Warfield and have shut down some good pass offenses like the Patriots and Oaklands etc... and Denver put up some points on you and we have a better offense than they do. And if LJ was that good he would be starting for someone lol ??? What kind of logic is that -- Do you even know the story behind LJ at all or are you just flat out talking from your *** ??

[kojak]

I find it amusing but yet refreshing. Instead of putting on the fake hard *** look that most coaches do he shows his emotions and you actually know that he cares about his team and its players and its fans. More than you can say about a lot of other coaches in this league. What had me cracking up though was Parcells smacking his other coach like a child. Now that was pure comedy.

He didn't smack him, he gave him the "Ric Flair" knife edge chop and yelled "Woooooo" in his face. :lmao2:

[Chief3188]

So how exactly did we "win" 7 games? Was that all our offense? Let's see, our defense makes a great goal line stand in San Diego, Shuts down Philly, returns an INT for a TD in Philly to win the game, shut down Arizona, shut down the Giants, what more do you want from them? You say we're not in the same class as Chicago or Carolina? We've played a much tougher schedule than either, and have numbers that are nearly as good. Sorry, our defense is great. Unfortunately, our kicking game has sucked this year. You can keep trying to blame our defense, but your trolling comments hold no water.

I'll let you know when you say something even remotely resembling comedy. It hasn't happened yet. Good luck.

I would credit your defense for winning the games more so than your offense if thats what your looking for.

[superpunk]

He didn't smack him, he gave him the "Ric Flair" knife edge chop and yelled "Woooooo" in his face. :lmao2:

:lmao2::lmao2:That Parcells and his wrestling obsession. He's got to learn there's a time and place.....

[Chief3188]

He didn't smack him, he gave him the "Ric Flair" knife edge chop and yelled "Woooooo" in his face. :lmao2:

lol - either way that was downright funny - He made that coach look like his little student ***** -- Its good to see a coach getting flared up at his other coaches when they are not performing rather than just blame the players.

[Hiero]

He didn't smack him, he gave him the "Ric Flair" knife edge chop and yelled "Woooooo" in his face. :lmao2:
lol one of the best posts ever. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[superpunk]

I would credit your defense for winning the games more so than your offense if thats what your looking for.

I'm not really "looking for" anything. Sometimes people come in with uneducated, poorly thought out arguments, and you have to set these people straight. :D But you're right, our defense has done what it needs to to a superlative degree. Unfortunately, our defense can't go out there and kick the ball. Otherwise, we'd be nailing 80 yarders in a 50 mph crosswind.

[jspchief]

Let me try and clarify the cheifs fans' perspective on our running game.

Over the past few years, we've gone into multiple games going up against the #1 rated run defense in the league. For example, last year when we played Atlanta, they were #1 against the run. We put up over 200 yards and 8 rushing TDs on them. We've faced other tough run defenses with the same results.

It's not that we don't respect your run D, we just have a high level of respect for what our team does against good run Defenses. It's certainly possible that the Cowboys will shut our run down. I just have a hard time imagining it because our running game so rarely does get shut down. Even when facing the best.

It's not homerism. It based on past performances.

[brokeback]

Brokeback

Fact is, your team is a run based team. You have score running the ball, however Dallas's run D is great, we have allowed only one hundred yard rusher this season and that was Tiki Barber. Please don't insult us by saying LJ is just as good or better then LT, he is not. If he was that good then he would have been starting already for someone. Even PH is not as good or complete as LT.

Dallas's corners will shut your passing game down, it's just not that good. Honestly for KC to win this game they will have to have a HUGE game from Gonzolez. Yes the AFC is known for having Some of the best offenses, but their defenses are truly pathetic. Fact is we have allowed 800 yards less in passing that you have. We have allowed 9 less touchdowns in the air and 1 less rushing touchdown. We may surrender yards, but we don't give up points. KC has 8 less sacks that us. You line may hold up but our defense is stout and stong. It KC scores more then 17 I will be suprised. LJ 75 yards 1 TD Cowboys 20-13.

I never said LJ was better than LT. I haven't even mentioned LT. I would say that Johnson is the better runner, but LT is the more complete back. Priest was as good or better than LT when Johnson was his backup, though. LT has a tendency to completely disappear every now and then. That's neither here nor there, though.
KC does not need a huge game from Gonzalez to win. He is not a focal point of our offense any longer. He draws a crowd. That's as important as anything else he does.
Your defense has better numbers than ours to be sure. Ours does create more turnovers, though.
Dallas hasn't been very effective in slowing down AFC teams this year, and I don't think this week will be any different.
It's great that you have only given up 1 hundred yard rusher this year. Why don't you investigate which team has the longest streak in the NFL of not allowing a 100 yard rusher? I'll give you a hint, their mascot is the Chiefs.
The Chiefs are peaking. The Cowboys are floundering. We're the healthiest we've been all year, our offense is hitting on all cylinders, and our defense is really starting to play well, especially against teams with pocket passers. We still struggle against QBs who can scramble and make plays, but I don't think Bledsoe qualifies.
Our 3 defensive letdowns have come against Brees, Plummer, and McNabb, and they were all early in the year when we were missing one or both of our starting corners.
This should be a good game. If it were in KC, I would expect the Chiefs to put it on the Cowboys. In Dallas, I expect a close game.

[superpunk]

lol - either way that was downright funny - He made that coach look like his little student ***** -- Its good to see a coach getting flared up at his other coaches when they are not performing rather than just blame the players.

Hey, sometimes Wayne Brady just has to choke a *****. It happens. Sometimes Todd haley gets out of line and tries to yell at the officials. Then, Parcells just has to let Todd Haley know who's boss, and slap a *****.

[sacase]

I think you might be suprised by what our passing offense is capable of. We certainly prefer to run the ball, but we've been one of the most prolific passing offense in the league for 4 years straight. Trent Green has only been rivaled by Manning over the last 3 years.

We've played 4 games and 3 teams (played philly twice)that have higher rated passing offenses than you. They had 160, 131, 218, and 183 yards against us in the air. only one got more than 200 against us and that was in the second game of the year. We don't give up alot of yards. Seriously you better pray that Gonzo has a great game or more than likely Drew has a horrible on....well average one in turnovers for him. But your not going to move the ball aginst us that much. Hope you guys create a lot fo turnovers on our end of the field. No one has beat us by more than 7 all year.

[brokeback]

So how exactly did we "win" 7 games? Was that all our offense? Let's see, our defense makes a great goal line stand in San Diego, Shuts down Philly, returns an INT for a TD in Philly to win the game, shut down Arizona, shut down the Giants, what more do you want from them? You say we're not in the same class as Chicago or Carolina? We've played a much tougher schedule than either, and have numbers that are nearly as good. Sorry, our defense is great. Unfortunately, our kicking game has sucked this year. You can keep trying to blame our defense, but your trolling comments hold no water.

I'll let you know when you say something even remotely resembling comedy. It hasn't happened yet. Good luck.

I'm not "blaming your defense" for anything. I'm simply saying that teams with great defenses don't give up 31 points to San Francisco. (That's more than the Chiefs have given up in any game this year.) They also don't have 7-5 records in a weak conference. Great defenses find ways to win games with turnovers and defensive scores. Good defenses keep the game close and hope the offense doesn't blow the game.

[Doomsday101]

I find it amusing but yet refreshing. Instead of putting on the fake hard *** look that most coaches do he shows his emotions and you actually know that he cares about his team and its players and its fans. More than you can say about a lot of other coaches in this league. What had me cracking up though was Parcells smacking his other coach like a child. Now that was pure comedy.

Just as you said with Vermile that is the way Bill is. He is a Jersey guy and his actions sometimes are rough. In the end I think he reacts to the issue at hand but does not hold it aginst the person. After all this is the same Parcells who got into shouting matches with Phil Simms quite a bit yet both guys have respect for one another and hold no ill will towards each other.

[superpunk]

I'm not "blaming your defense" for anything. I'm simply saying that teams with great defenses don't give up 31 points to San Francisco. (That's more than the Chiefs have given up in any game this year.) They also don't have 7-5 records in a weak conference. Great defenses find ways to win games with turnovers and defensive scores. Good defenses keep the game close and hope the offense doesn't blow the game.

The Colts only scored 13 on the Browns. Sometimes, great units have an off day. In regards to SF, that was early in the year, when we were still feeling the defense out, and a little hung over from the monday night embarassment in WSH. The defense had a bad half, rallied, and the offense won the game. Sometimes great units struggle. It happens. What great defenses do, though, is hold offenses like Seattle and NY well below their scoring output for the season.Like I said, if you put the Bears or Panthers in our schedule, I doubt very much that their numbers would be better than ours.

You can stop saying that the NFC is a weak conference. This is 2005, that's just not true, no matter how much you want it to be. Try to keep up with the times.

[jspchief]

We've played 4 games and 3 teams (played philly twice)that have higher rated passing offenses than you. They had 160, 131, 218, and 183 yards against us in the air. only one got more than 200 against us and that was in the second game of the year. We don't give up alot of yards. Seriously you better pray that Gonzo has a great game or more than likely Drew has a horrible on....well average one in turnovers for him. But your not going to move the ball aginst us that much. Hope you guys create a lot fo turnovers on our end of the field. No one has beat us by more than 7 all year.I'm not sure what you're basing your ratings on, but I will say the Chiefs have suffered in the passing game when Roaf and Welbourne have been out.

Our passing game doesn't struggle because of good coverage, it struggles because of pressure. With Roaf and Welbourne in, we should be able to minimize pressure. If you blitz, you better get there, because Green will shred blitzes.

The only other offense you guys have faced that has comparable weapons is San Diego. KC doesn't have to run, and they don't have to pass. They take what's there. If that means Gonzo gets 100+ yards receiving, so be it.

It will definately be an interesting game. It should seperate the wheat from the chaff.

[brokeback]

The Colts only scored 13 on the Browns. Sometimes, great units have an off day. In regards to SF, that was early in the year, when we were still feeling the defense out, and a little hung over from the monday night embarassment in WSH. The defense had a bad half, rallied, and the offense won the game. Sometimes great units struggle. It happens. What great defenses do, though, is hold offenses like Seattle and NY well below their scoring output for the season.Like I said, if you put the Bears or Panthers in our schedule, I doubt very much that their numbers would be better than ours.

You can stop saying that the NFC is a weak conference. This is 2005, that's just not true, no matter how much you want it to be. Try to keep up with the times.
That may be the record for most excuses for a poor defensive performance I've ever heard in a single post. Kudos.

As far as the AFC vs NFC, why don't you let us know what the head to head record is in interconference games this year. It'll be fun. It won't help your argument, though.

[kojak]

Actually the defense gave up 24 points to SF. 7 of there points came from a Bledsoe interception and TD.

[jspchief]

7 of there points came from a Bledsoe interception and TD.That seems to be the theme around here. Has Bledsoe just been killing you guys with turnovers?

[kojak]

That seems to be the theme around here. Has Bledsoe just been killing you guys with turnovers?

He has been lately :mad:

[Cowboys&Caps]

our board just went over 5,000 members this is because 1,500 chiefs fans just registered so they can defend their defence.

[sacase]

I'm not sure what you're basing your ratings on, but I will say the Chiefs have suffered in the passing game when Roaf and Welbourne have been out.

Our passing game doesn't struggle because of good coverage, it struggles because of pressure. With Roaf and Welbourne in, we should be able to minimize pressure. If you blitz, you better get there, because Green will shred blitzes.

The only other offense you guys have faced that has comparable weapons is San Diego. KC doesn't have to run, and they don't have to pass. They take what's there. If that means Gonzo gets 100+ yards receiving, so be it.

It will definately be an interesting game. It should seperate the wheat from the chaff.

RIIIGGGGHHHTTTTT....Let's explore this one shall we. Green has only thrown for more than 250 4 times this year. Now lets' look at this further. 289 Vs. Mia, ranked 16th vs pass, 347 against SD ranked 26th in pass, 323 VS NE 31 Vs pass and extreamly hurt, and finally 253 vs dever 28th vs pass. All of his games came against teams in 1 the AFC and two who were ranked in the bottom half of the NFL with 3 of them being in the last 6 in the NFL. Green defianatly does not scare me nor does he "light it up".

[kojak]

Actually I can't put all the balme on Bledsoe. I know the o-line problems hasn't helped his cause. But some of his decision making over the past few games leaves me scratching me head sometimes :confused:

[Chief3188]

RIIIGGGGHHHTTTTT....Let's explore this one shall we. Green has only thrown for more than 250 4 times this year. Now lets' look at this further. 289 Vs. Mia, ranked 16th vs pass, 347 against SD ranked 26th in pass, 323 VS NE 31 Vs pass and extreamly hurt, and finally 253 vs dever 28th vs pass. All of his games came against teams in 1 the AFC and two who were ranked in the bottom half of the NFL with 3 of them being in the last 6 in the NFL. Green defianatly does not scare me nor does he "light it up".

You do know that most of those teams have bad passing defense rankings because of their winning records and excellent run defenses right ?? Look at all the teams in the top ten in pass defense and tell me how many of them have a winning record and then look at the bottom ten and tell me the same thing and lets see how your arguement fares ??

[Chief3188]

Also take a look at the top ten run defenses and their teams records and the bottom ten -- Now tell me whats more significant in how a team is doing ?? Run defense or pass defense ??

[jspchief]

RIIIGGGGHHHTTTTT....Let's explore this one shall we. Green has only thrown for more than 250 4 times this year. Now lets' look at this further. 289 Vs. Mia, ranked 16th vs pass, 347 against SD ranked 26th in pass, 323 VS NE 31 Vs pass and extreamly hurt, and finally 253 vs dever 28th vs pass. All of his games came against teams in 1 the AFC and two who were ranked in the bottom half of the NFL with 3 of them being in the last 6 in the NFL. Green defianatly does not scare me nor does he "light it up".This year Green has had some bad games because or our two injured tackles. Just like I said in my previous post. He's also had games where he didn't need to pass because we ran so well.

Green's been top 5 in the league in Yds, TDs, and rating for 3 years running. I don't really care if he scares you, but if you think putting the game on his shoulders will automatically hamper our offense, that certainly isn't the case.

Personally, I'm not sure it matters because I don't expect you to stop our running game.

[Chief3188]

This year Green has had some bad games because or our two injured tackles. Just like I said in my previous post. He's also had games where he didn't need to pass because we ran so well.

Green's been top 5 in the league in Yds, TDs, and rating for 3 years running. I don't really care if he scares you, but if you think putting the game on his shoulders will automatically hamper our offense, that certainly isn't the case.

Personally, I'm not sure it matters because I don't expect you to stop our running game.

In the last 4 years the only QB to throw for more yards than Green has been Manning and as of now Green is only the 5th QB in history to post back to back 4000 yard seasons and only the 7th Qb in history to post 3 straight seasons with a rating above 90. Also we were missing 3 Olineman with Roaf, Welbourn and Sampson out therefore forcing us to use our backup RG as our LT and our third string RT which severly hampered our pass protection and at times strained our running game. Let them underestimate us all they want on offense as the only thing that matters is what happens on Sunday.

[lane]

i think this is going to be a great game........good beer drinking game!!

it will have playoff intensity... no doubt.

[AmishCowboy]

Well, I heard Bryan Cox call them the "Kansas City Midgets", Because they are so small on D, so I'am hoping that that will help our Offensive line out. On defense I hopeing we Blitz the hell out of Green and Finally see Ware start making Havoc in the Backfield. Also there is no denying that KC is a Horrible road team, so we'll see!.

[superpunk]

That may be the record for most excuses for a poor defensive performance I've ever heard in a single post. Kudos.

As far as the AFC vs NFC, why don't you let us know what the head to head record is in interconference games this year. It'll be fun. It won't help your argument, though.

Hey, you want to single out the ONE game where our defense has underachieved, I'm gonna tell you why, and give you an example of another unit underachieving. It's called putting together a logical argument. You should try it some time.

I've shown you our numbers in comparison with the top defenses in the league. I've shown you how much harder the Cowboys schedule has been than those otehr top defenses. You come back with, "A great defense wouldn't allow 31 to the 49ers. Great defenses win games" Is that so? I'm guessing you consider the Bears defense great, as well as the Panthers, since you claim we're not in their class. Why couldn't the BEars defense WIN THE GAME against Washington opening day? My, how could the Bears defense blow that late game lead to the BROWNS? Or wow, how could Carolina allow 29 to Green Bay? Or lose to Miami and New Orleans, allowing 20 points to each of those teams????? Do you see how faulty your little arguments are? Look at the facts. Our defense is just as good as Chicago's, or Carolina's.

[Chief3188]

Well, I heard Bryan Cox call them the "Kansas City Midgets", Because they are so small on D, so I'am hoping that that will help our Offensive line out. On defense I hopeing we Blitz the hell out of Green and Finally see Ware start making Havoc in the Backfield. Also there is no denying that KC is a Horrible road team, so we'll see!.

Yes KC is such a horrible road team that they are 3-3 on the road -- That is horrific - its almost like having a losing record on the road it stinks so bad --- Where are you getting your facts from there buddy ???

[WoodysGirl]

That may be the record for most excuses for a poor defensive performance I've ever heard in a single post. Kudos.

As far as the AFC vs NFC, why don't you let us know what the head to head record is in interconference games this year. It'll be fun. It won't help your argument, though.Most folks tend to skim over my posts. I'm just a lowly girl :rolleyes: , but I wanted to point that I answered this particular question earlier in this thread...

Source: NFL.com


In head to head play the conferences are at 24-24

In looking at these stats:

AFC east - three teams under .500
AFC north - two teams under .500
AFC south - two teams under .500
AFC west - one team under .500

AFC 8 teams under .500

NFC east - one team under .500 and one at .500
NFC north - two teams under .500
NFC south - one team under .500
NFC west - 3 teams under .500

NFC 7-16 teams under .500 w/1 at .500

I'd say looking at these numbers, both conferences have their share of middle of the pack teams w/only Indy qualifying as an elite team.

[Bizwah]

I'm not "blaming your defense" for anything. I'm simply saying that teams with great defenses don't give up 31 points to San Francisco. (That's more than the Chiefs have given up in any game this year.) They also don't have 7-5 records in a weak conference. Great defenses find ways to win games with turnovers and defensive scores. Good defenses keep the game close and hope the offense doesn't blow the game.


And "great" offenses don't put up three points vs the Bills.

I'm still amazed that fans of opposing teams still look at that game and point to it saying, "You're defense can't be all that great if they gave up 31 to the Niners."

Look at the body of work.......We played the NFL's number one offense three weeks in a row, and shut them down. First, it was the Eagles, then it was the Giants, then it was the Seahawks. Our defense has been consistently good all year.

And the Niner game....Yes, we stunk it up the first half that game. The defense allowed 17 points. But we tightened the second half, only allowing a TD. We slept throught the first half.....we had just come off a terrible loss to the Skins (curse the name) on Monday night.

Now, I'm not ready to claim this defense as "great" yet. But we certainly aren't poor....we're downright good. And the scary part? We're starting two rookies on defense (three last week) and three others are first time starters. On top of all that, this is our first time in a 3-4 scheme.

Not bad, for all the newness (yes, not a good word...but it's appropriate).

And, you can call these excuses....but the title of the thread implies an explaination....I've provided one the best I can.

[KoRn_BoYz_5]

Is this BB not used to long threads filled with intelligent football discussion?

it stoped being intelligent when you cheif fans said LJ was gonna run on us...HA.....morons

[Bob Sacamano]

Conversely, you gave up more points to the 49ers than the Chiefs have given up to anyone all year.

look at what our D has done since the '9er game, and remember, that was back in week 3, and we were still learning the 3-4, and still are actually...

[brokeback]

Well, I heard Bryan Cox call them the "Kansas City Midgets", Because they are so small on D, so I'am hoping that that will help our Offensive line out. On defense I hopeing we Blitz the hell out of Green and Finally see Ware start making Havoc in the Backfield. Also there is no denying that KC is a Horrible road team, so we'll see!.
Kansas City is .500 on the road this year. That's better than most teams in the NFL. I guess there is denying it. Feel free to blitz Green all day. You won't get past the 3 Probowlers on our offensive line. Roaf's been back for 2 games. Green's been sacked once in that span. We've put up 102 points in our last 3 games. You've scored 116 in your last 6 games. That's not gonna cut it.

[Bob Sacamano]

our D is the one that broke PLummer's consecutive passes w/o an INT streak

if I were you, I'd be a least bit worried about our D

[brokeback]

Hey, you want to single out the ONE game where our defense has underachieved, I'm gonna tell you why, and give you an example of another unit underachieving. It's called putting together a logical argument. You should try it some time.

I've shown you our numbers in comparison with the top defenses in the league. I've shown you how much harder the Cowboys schedule has been than those otehr top defenses. You come back with, "A great defense wouldn't allow 31 to the 49ers. Great defenses win games" Is that so? I'm guessing you consider the Bears defense great, as well as the Panthers, since you claim we're not in their class. Why couldn't the BEars defense WIN THE GAME against Washington opening day? My, how could the Bears defense blow that late game lead to the BROWNS? Or wow, how could Carolina allow 29 to Green Bay? Or lose to Miami and New Orleans, allowing 20 points to each of those teams????? Do you see how faulty your little arguments are? Look at the facts. Our defense is just as good as Chicago's, or Carolina's.
The Bears and Panthers lead their respective divisions and have been carried by their defenses. I never said that a great defense wins EVERY game, but they carry their teams to win most of their games, especially down the stretch. Your defense is not great. Quit pouting. It's a good defense. It's a B-level defense. It's not in the top 10% of the NFL, though. I'm sorry. If you think Dallas's defense is good as Chicago's, you're a homer. It's nothing personal. You just aren't capable of evaluating talent properly.

[Bob Sacamano]

I thought a top-5 D, was an A-level D? and we're 6th in scoring D, isn't that A-level?

that's also a top 10 percentile buddy...which you said we're not

so who can't evaluate talent properly? much less gather, and compute stats?

[brokeback]

And "great" offenses don't put up three points vs the Bills.

I'm still amazed that fans of opposing teams still look at that game and point to it saying, "You're defense can't be all that great if they gave up 31 to the Niners."

Look at the body of work.......We played the NFL's number one offense three weeks in a row, and shut them down. First, it was the Eagles, then it was the Giants, then it was the Seahawks. Our defense has been consistently good all year.

And the Niner game....Yes, we stunk it up the first half that game. The defense allowed 17 points. But we tightened the second half, only allowing a TD. We slept throught the first half.....we had just come off a terrible loss to the Skins (curse the name) on Monday night.

Now, I'm not ready to claim this defense as "great" yet. But we certainly aren't poor....we're downright good. And the scary part? We're starting two rookies on defense (three last week) and three others are first time starters. On top of all that, this is our first time in a 3-4 scheme.

Not bad, for all the newness (yes, not a good word...but it's appropriate).

And, you can call these excuses....but the title of the thread implies an explaination....I've provided one the best I can.

You just agreed with what I've been saying about the Dallas D. They're good. No doubt about it. They aren't great. Is it possible that they may improve to a great defense and carry your team deep into the playoffs? Sure. I don't see it happening, but it's not an outlandish concept.
As for the Chiefs offense, I never claimed it was great. It was great for the last 3 years and has really fallen off this year. Now that we're healthy, it's really looking good. If it continues to put up the numbers it has the last 3 games, it will be remembered as a great offense. Right now, though, our offense can only be classified as a good offense that has played great for 3 consecutive games. That's how I would answer a thread asking how we only scored 3 points at Buffalo and 10 at Denver. Yes we had a lot of injuries on the offensive line, but we have not been an elite offense for most of the season. That said, we've scored 20 or more points in 10 of our 12 games, and 26 or more in 8. We've been pretty damned good on offense this year, just not great.

[brokeback]

I thought a top-5 D, was an A-level D? and we're 6th in scoring D, isn't that A-level?

that's also a top 10 percentile buddy...which you said we're not

so who can't evaluate talent properly? much less gather, and compute stats?

I guess I was wrong. 6th in scoring defense does put you in the top 10% of the NFL. I must not have noticed that the NFL just added 28 new teams. Otherwise you're just really bad at math and don't realize that 6th puts you at about the 20th percentile.

[WoodysGirl]

The Bears and Panthers lead their respective divisions and have been carried by their defenses. I never said that a great defense wins EVERY game, but they carry their teams to win most of their games, especially down the stretch. Your defense is not great. Quit pouting. It's a good defense. It's a B-level defense. It's not in the top 10% of the NFL, though. I'm sorry. If you think Dallas's defense is good as Chicago's, you're a homer. It's nothing personal. You just aren't capable of evaluating talent properly.Top 10% would mean they are 1-3. I don't think anyone has said that. Also I don't believe anyone in this thread has said our D is as good as Chicago. What Chicago is doing w/o any kind of offense is nothing short of amazing.

However, by most accounts, the D is ranked in the Top 10 in every conceivable defensive category with the lowest being 10 and the highest 4th. Hell Aikman's Efficiency rating have them at 3. This is not even being homeristic, our D is just that good.

I respect KC's offense, but they're not unstoppable. The Bills game proved that. I think they'll score some points, but they won't be running up and down the field on our D.

[Bob Sacamano]

Top 10% would mean they are 1-3. I don't think anyone has said that. Also I don't believe anyone in this thread has said our D is as good as Chicago. What Chicago is doing w/o any kind of offense is nothing short of amazing.

However, by most accounts, the D is ranked in the Top 10 in every conceivable defensive category with the lowest being 10 and the highest 4th. Hell Aikman's Efficiency rating have them at 3. This is not even being homeristic, our D is just that good.

I respect KC's offense, but they're not unstoppable. The Bills game proved that. I think they'll score some points, but they won't be running up and down the field on our D.

what she said

[Bob Sacamano]

I guess I was wrong. 6th in scoring defense does put you in the top 10% of the NFL. I must not have noticed that the NFL just added 28 new teams. Otherwise you're just really bad at math and don't realize that 6th puts you at about the 20th percentile.

math isn't my strong suit, but 20th percentile is better than what? 80th percentile...the Chief's D

[brokeback]

Top 10% would mean they are 1-3. I don't think anyone has said that. Also I don't believe anyone in this thread has said our D is as good as Chicago. What Chicago is doing w/o any kind of offense is nothing short of amazing.

However, by most accounts, the D is ranked in the Top 10 in every conceivable defensive category with the lowest being 10 and the highest 4th. Hell Aikman's Efficiency rating have them at 3. This is not even being homeristic, our D is just that good.

I respect KC's offense, but they're not unstoppable. The Bills game proved that. I think they'll score some points, but they won't be running up and down the field on our D.
I quote people in my posts. Your members have said the Cowboys D is as good as the Bears D and that it's in the top 10% of the league.
I agree with your numbers regarding the Cowboys defense as it relates to the rest of the league. It's a good defense. It's 6th in scoring and in yards allowed. That's not greatness. There are only 3 or 4 great defenses in the NFL tops, maybe not even that many. Sixth in a field of 32 is good. It's not greatness, though.

[Bob Sacamano]

dude, you're nit-picking, which basically means you're arguing just for the sake of arguing

the Bears have a great D, and the Cowboys have a great D

the Bears just happen to have a greater defense

a great D, is one that will face an offense, no matter how powerful they are, and limit them, to a far lesser output, than what is their norm, consistently, and that's what we get with the Dallas D

[WoodysGirl]

I quote people in my posts. Your members have said the Cowboys D is as good as the Bears D and that it's in the top 10% of the league.
I agree with your numbers regarding the Cowboys defense as it relates to the rest of the league. It's a good defense. It's 6th in scoring and in yards allowed. That's not greatness. There are only 3 or 4 great defenses in the NFL tops, maybe not even that many. Sixth in a field of 32 is good. It's not greatness, though.I have to believe when 10% is posted it is meant as Top 10, not as it relates to a specific percentile. And I think you really are trying too hard to break down the numbers to make you're argument. I've yet to see someone make an argument on a football board stating percentages versus actual numbers as it relates to standings.

As for your 3 or 4 "great" defenses, who do you consider them to be outside of Chicago? I'm not asking from a homer perspective... If you posted them in before, I missed it. Long a** thread, ya know.

Greatness is relative, ya know... All defenses have warts, it's just how u overcome them. Ours just happens to be our offense.

[brokeback]

math isn't my strong suit, but 20th percentile is better than what? 80th percentile...the Chief's D
If you're admittedly not good at math, it's bad form to use it to ridicule someone who is.
That's a terrific straw man you created to argue against. Nobody is claiming that the Chiefs have a better defense than the Cowboys. We have a mediocre defense that is rapidly improving. Our offense can score in a hurry. Chiefs games tend to have a lot of plays run. This tends to skew the number of yards we gain on offense and give up on defense. Fortunately, we create a lot of turnovers and are starting to get healthy and improve on both sides of the ball at the right time, hence the 3 game winning streak. Our Special Teams are as good as you'll find. The Cowboys, conversely, are finding ways to lose games lately. You've got a good defense and a mediocre at best offense that can score but has also given up some scores. Your special teams blow. This adds up to a pretty average team. You might sneak into the playoffs. You might finish 8-8. You've got 7 turds on your schedule that aid your cause.

[brokeback]

dude, you're nit-picking, which basically means you're arguing just for the sake of arguing

the Bears have a great D, and the Cowboys have a great D

the Bears just happen to have a greater defense

a great D, is one that will face an offense, no matter how powerful they are, and limit them, to a far lesser output, than what is their norm, consistently, and that's what we get with the Dallas D
You've just described a good defense. A great defense is one that can overcome even a terrible offense and will their team to victory. Chicago has far less talent on offense than you. They've got 8 straight wins. They play a cupcake schedule, but that offense has no business winning more than 4 games this year. However, their defense is great. That means they do more than simply slow down the opponents offenses. They force turnovers. They beat up offenses. They score points. They give their own anemic offense great field position. If they were merely a good or even very good defense, they would be 5-7, 6-6, or possibly even 7-5. The Bears would be nowhere near 9-3 with the Cowboy defense, though.

[Bob Sacamano]

The Bears would be nowhere near 9-3 with the Cowboy defense, though.

please, don't bring conjecture into an argument with me, stick with the facts

so we're "merely" a good defense?

top 5 in total D, and top 6 in scoring D, and you can't even give our D, the "very good" label

[jspchief]

I'm not even going to pretend that I think your defense isn't good. They are very good. Your success against the top tier RBs you've faced is very impressive. It does seem like you're vulnerable to pass catching TEs, but that's about it.

Should be a fun game.

[brokeback]

please, don't bring conjecture into an argument with me, stick with the facts

so we're "merely" a good defense?

top 5 in total D, and top 6 in scoring D, and you can't even give our D, the "very good" label
You're 6th in both categories. You're good. I'll say you're very good if it will bring a smile to your face, but color me unimpressed with your results against AFC teams so far.

[Bob Sacamano]

top-6, and we're just "good"? and we've shutdown better offenses than you, and we're just "good"?

whatever, I don't care what you think, say or do frankly

cuz when we beat you, I won't have to see your nit-picking arse here anymore LMFAO!

[Smith22]

Too many pissing contests going on in this thread, but I'll throw in my 2 cents and leave it at that.

IMO, we are an above average defense that is player or 2 away from being a great defense. Fujita has been a weakness (since Singleton went down), although his play improved last week. My other complaints would be FS (Davis) and ILB (Shanle). On the other hand, guys like Ware, Ellis, James (huge improvement this year in his game), TNew, Henry, Canty, Glover and A. Glenn have carried this team. Add a ballhawk at FS and a pass rushing threat who can handle the run opposite of Ware and this defense will not only keep us in games, but win them more often than not.

The keys to the Chiefs game all starts with Larry Johnson. Contain him and I'm more than confident our secondary can handle the Chiefs passing game. IF we struggle containing Johnson early, then Gonzo could cause us major problems in the middle of the field. Of course, our offense has to improve from last week's lousy effort, and they should be able to do that against a soft Chiefs defense, scoring in the 17-21 point range. As always, we can't afford to turn the ball over, but even moreso this week against an offense that can score points in bunches.

[brokeback]

top-6, and we're just "good"?

whatever, I don't care what you think, say or do frankly

cuz when we beat you, I won't have to see your nit-picking arse here anymore LMFAO!
I just said you were very good. If the Chiefs lose, I'll come back briefly to take my lumps.

[WoodysGirl]

You're 6th in both categories. You're good. I'll say you're very good if it will bring a smile to your face, but color me unimpressed with your results against AFC teams so far.Your basing your opinion on 3 games out of 12? U really need to open your eyes to the complete body of work...

AFC is not the class of the NFL anymore, so you should probably re-think your position on it's dominance.

[brokeback]

Too many pissing contests going on in this thread, but I'll throw in my 2 cents and leave it at that.

IMO, we are an above average defense that is player or 2 away from being a great defense. Fujita has been a weakness (since Singleton went down), although his play improved last week. My other complaints would be FS (Davis) and ILB (Shanle). On the other hand, guys like Ware, Ellis, James (huge improvement this year in his game), TNew, Henry, Canty, Glover and A. Glenn have carried this team. Add a ballhawk at FS and a pass rushing threat who can handle the run opposite of Ware and this defense will not only keep us in games, but win them more often than not.

The keys to the Chiefs game all starts with Larry Johnson. Contain him and I'm more than confident our secondary can handle the Chiefs passing game. IF we struggle containing Johnson early, then Gonzo could cause us major problems in the middle of the field. Of course, our offense has to improve from last week's lousy effort, and they should be able to do that against a soft Chiefs defense, scoring in the 17-21 point range. As always, we can't afford to turn the ball over, but even moreso this week against an offense that can score points in bunches.

Holy crap! An accurate analysis by an informed fan. Do you feel as lonely on this board as I do?

[WoodysGirl]

Too many pissing contests going on in this thread agreed. But they're so fun to read... :)

[Smith22]

You're 6th in both categories. You're good. I'll say you're very good if it will bring a smile to your face, but color me unimpressed with your results against AFC teams so far.

7 of Denver's pts came from an AWFUL Bledsoe INT that was run back for 7 and our kicker missed a chip shot FG to boot or we win that game.

The win against the Chargers was ugly on defense, but keep in mind we were in our FIRST week of a BRAND NEW defensive scheme with plenty of new guys in the lineup (Ware, Henry, James, Canty, etc...).

[Bob Sacamano]

Holy crap! An accurate analysis by an informed fan. Do you feel as lonely on this board as I do?

how was my analysis, "inaccurate"? and how am I, "uninformed"? I have the stats right in front of me

[Bob Sacamano]

I just said you were very good. If the Chiefs lose, I'll come back briefly to take my lumps.

might as well start taking your lumps now

[brokeback]

Your basing your opinion on 3 games out of 12? U really need to open your eyes to the complete body of work...

AFC is not the class of the NFL anymore, so you should probably re-think your position on it's dominance.
I'm not basing my opinion of your defense on 3 games. If I was, I wouldn't have said they were very good, good, or pretty good. I'm looking at similar opponents. Teams tend to pattern themselves and benchmark themselves based on the rest of their division. The AFC West tends to play physical, in your face football. It's certainly not a finesse division. The teams use their offensive lines to wear down opponents and run between the tackles over and over again. The Raiders fit that description the least, but you handled their offense reasonably well (19 points). You gave up 24 points each to Denver and San Diego. I certainly don't see your offense scoring enough to win a shootout.
This game will come down to your D-line/blitzing LBs vs. our O-line. The team that wins that battle will probably win the game barring some special teams fireworks or breakdowns.

[Bob Sacamano]

did you take into account that division games are usually tougher than anyother game?

[brokeback]

7 of Denver's pts came from an AWFUL Bledsoe INT that was run back for 7 and our kicker missed a chip shot FG to boot or we win that game.

The win against the Chargers was ugly on defense, but keep in mind we were in our FIRST week of a BRAND NEW defensive scheme with plenty of new guys in the lineup (Ware, Henry, James, Canty, etc...).
Congratulations, your offense got scored on and your special teams stink. You'll be playing with that same offense and special teams on Sunday. If you think KC will be less likely to score on D/ST, you've got a big surprise coming your way.

[Bob Sacamano]

your D sucks, and Dante hasn't done anything in awhile

and both our Os suck

the X-factor, our very good D

we win

again, take your lumps now and save yourself the time

[jspchief]

and both our Os suck

heh. 2nd overall and 7th in scoring. Yeah that sucks.

[brokeback]

how was my analysis, "inaccurate"? and how am I, "uninformed"? I have the stats right in front of me
I thought a top-5 D, was an A-level D? and we're 6th in scoring D, isn't that A-level?

that's also a top 10 percentile buddy...which you said we're not

so who can't evaluate talent properly? much less gather, and compute stats?
Do you really want me to elaborate or are your own quotes enough?

[Bob Sacamano]

heh. 2nd overall and 7th in scoring. Yeah that sucks.

sorry, got visions of Buffalo in my head

[brokeback]

did you take into account that division games are usually tougher than anyother game?

No. No I did not. That's probably because NFL teams have a .500 winning percentage in divisional games every single year. This is identical to their .500 winning percentage in non-divisional games. Math is tricky that way.

[Bob Sacamano]

Do you really want me to elaborate or are your own quotes enough?

I fail to see your point? I posted the mark of a great D, but go ahead

[WoodysGirl]

I'm not basing my opinion of your defense on 3 games. If I was, I wouldn't have said they were very good, good, or pretty good. I'm looking at similar opponents. Teams tend to pattern themselves and benchmark themselves based on the rest of their division. The AFC West tends to play physical, in your face football. It's certainly not a finesse division. The teams use their offensive lines to wear down opponents and run between the tackles over and over again. The Raiders fit that description the least, but you handled their offense reasonably well (19 points). You gave up 24 points each to Denver and San Diego. I certainly don't see your offense scoring enough to win a shootout.
This game will come down to your D-line/blitzing LBs vs. our O-line. The team that wins that battle will probably win the game barring some special teams fireworks or breakdowns.I'm beginning to see now... There's an AFC West bias going on here... Everything you describe the AFC West as being, I could say the same about the NFC East division. The difference is in the continuity within the organizations from the coaching staff to the systems being played. Oakland is not playing well for that very reason.

Three of the teams within the NFC are all in various stages of rebuilding, so they don't have the same amount of continuity. But their coaches are known for their coaching skills, even tho Gibbs is shaky right now. :D

As Smith22 noted, the D didn't give up 24 pts to Denver. Bledsoe gift-wrapped a TD for Den with an awful throw in first quarter. So the D gave up 17 pts.

And seriously, I wouldn't compare the D of today with the D against SD. Even missing two defensive starters since that game, the D is still playing far and away above what they did in that game.

I actually agree that the game will be won and lost at the LOS. You generate pressure on Bledsoe and if he doesn't respond well, we're in deep doo-doo. OTOH, if we dont get any pressure up field and contain LJ, then I'd say we're in for a long day.

However, I'm more worried about Bledsoe and our offense than I am about our D. It's too Jekyll and Hyde.

[Bob Sacamano]

No. No I did not. That's probably because NFL teams have a .500 winning percentage in divisional games every single year. This is identical to their .500 winning percentage in non-divisional games. Math is tricky that way.

guess divisional games are only tough in the NFC East then

[Bob Sacamano]

WG

all the Chiefs have as a pass-rushing threat is Jared Allen, I wouldn't be worried about Bledsoe too much

[jspchief]

sorry, got visions of Buffalo in my headAnd I have visions of San Francisco. Even good teams stumble on occasion. If you think one bad game determines what we are capable of, I assume you use the same logic on your own team.

Besides, the way Buffalo beat us was through pressure, because we had two back-ups at tackle. Now we have two starters, and Dallas won't come near the pressure Buffalo got.

[Bob Sacamano]

heh, yet our D has been confusing opposing offenses for weeks now, yep, we won't get pressure on you guys LMFAO!

[brokeback]

your D sucks, and Dante hasn't done anything in awhile

and both our Os suck

the X-factor, our very good D

we win

again, take your lumps now and save yourself the time
Spellbinding analysis of our offense and special teams. I was under the impression that the Chiefs offense was capping off a year which is included as part of one of the greatest offenses in the history of the NFL as measured over a 4-year period. I was also under the impression that Dante Hall is widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best, kick returner in NFL history.
Thanks for setting me straight.

For those of us in the real world, the Chiefs have a very good offense that has begun to look great as of late. We also have Dante Hall who is a threat to score every time he touches the ball. Our kicker is having an excellent year. I believe he ranks 3rd in the AFC in % and has hit several long kicks. This is especially impressive given the fact that he has played every game on grass. His kickoffs aren't very good, though.

[Bob Sacamano]

Dante is a threat that hasn't been realized thus far, and our kick-coverage is, and always is, excellent

sorry about the O analysis of you guys, that was a way off, but it was a dig

[brokeback]

heh, yet our D has been confusing opposing offenses for weeks now, yep, we won't get pressure on you guys LMFAO!
By "weeks" are you referring to last week when you lost to New York and the week before that when you lost to Denver?

[Bob Sacamano]

New York's O was pathetic against us, 1 TD

we ended Plummers consecutive passes w/o an INT streak

so yeah, that's what I'm referring to

[brokeback]

WG

all the Chiefs have as a pass-rushing threat is Jared Allen, I wouldn't be worried about Bledsoe too much

Derrick Johnson is actually a very good pass rusher. He's been used a lot in coverage because we've played some wide open offenses and have been missing Warfield and/or Surtain for much of the season. We don't get a lot of sacks, but that's due to a weak D-line failing to get a push up front. We did a better job of getting a push with Sims back last week.
That said, our defense tends to deflect a lot of passes that result in INTs. I don't know, but I would guess that Bledsoe doesn't really have a big problem with deflected passes because he's so tall.

[Bob Sacamano]

DJ isn't a very good pass-rusher, that's never been his forte

[brokeback]

New York's O was pathetic against us, 1 TD

we ended Plummers consecutive passes w/o an INT streak

so yeah, that's what I'm referring to
So what? You still lost. I've never seen fans who pound their chests over losses the way CZ posters do. The Chiefs put up a bushel on Philly, but we lost the game. Our defense was excellent against Buffalo, but we lost the game. I hope that next week you brag about how good your defense looked in a loss to the Chiefs.

[Bob Sacamano]

how am I pounding my chest? I'm just pointing out fact, you should try it sometimes, and I happen to like our D's chances against your O, you're only real advantage heading into the game

[brokeback]

DJ isn't a very good pass-rusher, that's never been his forte
Player Profile

Derrick Johnson

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/Profiles/PICTURE_djohnson.gif

School: Texas Position: Weakside Linebacker Class: Senior Height: 6'3" Weight: 242lbs Birthday: 11/22/82 40 Time: 4.54

Positives


- Speed is one of Derrick’s biggest strengths. He has the ability to cover sideline to sideline. He has proven to be an accomplished blitzer and shows good instincts on the field. Coverage is an area that Derrick also has a good amount of success in.


Looks like you need to set some scouts straight regarding his blitzing ability. He doesn't do it a lot, but he is effective when he does.

[Bob Sacamano]

how many sacks did he have in college? how many times was he asked to blitz in college? not many, cuz that wasn't his forte, running sideline to sideline, and coverage is...so again, he isnt' a very good pass-rusher, there's a reason his college and pro team didn't/doesn't ask him too, and if he was very good, there's no way in hell KC would ask him to stay back in coverage all the time, when only Jared Allen can provide the heat

if someone is very good at something, an NFL team will damn, well, find a way to utilize it

[WoodysGirl]

So what? You still lost. I've never seen fans who pound their chests over losses the way CZ posters do. The Chiefs put up a bushel on Philly, but we lost the game. Our defense was excellent against Buffalo, but we lost the game. I hope that next week you brag about how good your defense looked in a loss to the Chiefs.Please don't use that brush on all the Zone posters... Most of the posts in this thread have been about the defense. And that's what most are discussing. And it's also what we hang our hats on when it comes to the team. We don't know which offense will show up on Sun, but we know our D will...

I don't see alot of chest pounding related to the game losses. The examples being posted are related to the D's performance in the game. Not the actual game itself.

Now if you want to discuss a specific game in which we loss, then I suggest start a new thread. While we have our share of homers on this board, most are a pretty realistic bunch as it relates to the talent level of the team.

[brokeback]

how am I pounding my chest? I'm just pointing out fact, you should try it sometimes, and I happen to like our D's chances against your O, you're only real advantage heading into the game
I guess we must not have a Special Teams advantage.
I love to point out facts.
It is a fact that you lost to NY last week.
It is a fact that you lost to DEN the week before that.
It is a fact that the Chiefs have won 3 in a row.

[Bob Sacamano]

have we lost because of our D? NOPE!

[Bob Sacamano]

and is it a fact that our D has shutdown better offenses? YEP!

[brokeback]

Please don't use that brush on all the Zone posters... Most of the posts in this thread have been about the defense. And that's what most are discussing. And it's also what we hang our hats on when it comes to the team. We don't know which offense will show up on Sun, but we know our D will...

I don't see alot of chest pounding related to the game losses. The examples being posted are related to the D's performance in the game. Not the actual game itself.

Now if you want to discuss a specific game in which we loss, then I suggest start a new thread. While we have our share of homers on this board, most are a pretty realistic bunch as it relates to the talent level of the team.
I don't paint you all with that brush, but there are several covered in paint.
You personally have provided reasonable, well-thought out analysis and opinion with the occasional homerism sprinkled in here and there. That's exactly what every poster should do.
This thread was actually started to discuss the fact that the Cowboys have given up well over 100 yards in the last 2 games. Starting a new thread to discuss those specific games would be redundant.

[brokeback]

have we lost because of our D? NOPE!

You lost to Denver after your D gave up a huge run to...who was it again? Jim Brown? Walter Payton? I remember now. It was Ron freaking Dayne.
Did your offense show up big in that game? No.
Did your special teams have a great day? No.
Did your defense shut down the Broncos? No.
I will admit that the Cowboys only looked like garbage on offense and special teams last week. The defense played well, but they were outplayed by the Giants.

[Bob Sacamano]

Cundiff makes that kick, we win the game, Dayne doesn't break that long run

why do you keep trying to argue with me about our D?

argue about something you can keep up with, such as our offense

c'mon, give yourself a fighting chance nit-picker

[superpunk]

This thread was created to ask questions about our defense. I believe most of the posters in this thread have made legitimate, well thought out arguments about the proficiency of the defense. Bonebrake, you've been shown how the Cowboys defense is on par with the best in the league, despite facing MUCH tougher competition. You respond with the statement that great defenses win games. You're shown how defenses you consider great (Chicago andCarolina) have lost games for their teams. You say that great defenses don't win EVERY game. Well, which is it? Our defense has put us in position to WIN EVERY GAME this year. Every single one. They have comparable stats to the best defenses in the league, despite facing tougher competition.

It has become blatantly obvious that you are trying to do nothing but argue, as I have never seen someoene backtrack, or shift the focus of his argument more than you.

[Bob Sacamano]

he's a nit-picking troll, what else can he do?

[sacase]

Broke, you kill me, I give you facts you give me excuses.

Fact, the cowboys shut down offenses.
Fact, the cowboys played the top scoring offenses three weeks strait and shut them down.
Fact the Cowboys also went on a three game winning streak.
Fact Roy Williams is the Best SS in the league and he will be in the box (I hope LJ brought his depends undergarments to wear)
Fact, no team has returned a kick or punt on us for a touchdown.
Fact, as bad as our offense is, we lead the NFL is ToP.
Fact, your highpowered Offense has only scored 4 more TD's than us and we have been missing our Probowl LT for most of the year and have a 6th round rookie playing at right. (in fact I think it is kinda funny that your high powered offense only has 4 more TD's than us and they have 3 Probowl Linemen.......If we had three prowbowl linemen....I belive we would be undefeated.)
Fact philly and Denver both hung 30+ on you. Niether team scored no where near that on us.
Fact, two of your wins in your three game winning streak were gimmies. (Houston, New England)
Fact, you kicker ain't that great past 40 yards. (Not that ours is any better)
Fact your AWSOME special teamer DH, has only scored one TD this year.

You team ain't that great, I am not saying we are much better, but I like how we match up against you. Your offensive strengths play right into our defensive strengths. Honestly teams that give us problems are teams that generate a lot of pressure and have TWO good DE. We can account for one, two makes life hard for us. This will not be a high scoring game. LJ will not get 100 yards and TG will not surpass 250. Better hope your kicker can kick better thant 57% from beyond 30.

[superpunk]

LOL.....insert BigD with his "Don't feed the troll" thread bomb.

[superpunk]

Pardon me mr. sacase, but your facts have no place here. We're only dealing in ignorant Cowboy bashing at the moment. But, if you comeback after the troll is gone, you might be able to carry on a legitimate conversation.

[brokeback]

Hey SuperPunk. Good to see you. Congratulations Summer. You're no longer the most uninformed person on this thread.

[Bob Sacamano]

Broke, you kill me, I give you facts you give me excuses.

Fact, the cowboys shut down offenses.
Fact, the cowboys played the top scoring offenses three weeks strait and shut them down.
Fact the Cowboys also went on a three game winning streak.
Fact Roy Williams is the Best SS in the league and he will be in the box (I hope LJ brought his depends undergarments to wear)
Fact, no team has returned a kick or punt on us for a touchdown.
Fact, as bad as our offense is, we lead the NFL is ToP.
Fact, your highpowered Offense has only scored 4 more TD's than us and we have been missing our Probowl LT for most of the year and have a 6th round rookie playing at right. (in fact I think it is kinda funny that your high powered offense only has 4 more TD's than us and they have 3 Probowl Linemen.......If we had three prowbowl linemen....I belive we would be undefeated.)
Fact philly and Denver both hung 30+ on you. Niether team scored no where near that on us.
Fact, two of your wins in your three game winning streak were gimmies. (Houston, New England)
Fact, you kicker ain't that great past 40 yards. (Not that ours is any better)
Fact your AWSOME special teamer DH, has only scored one TD this year.

You team ain't that great, I am not saying we are much better, but I like how we match up against you. Your offensive strengths play right into our defensive strengths. Honestly teams that give us problems are teams that generate a lot of pressure and have TWO good DE. We can account for one, two makes life hard for us. This will not be a high scoring game. LJ will not get 100 yards and TG will not surpass 250. Better hope your kicker can kick better thant 57% from beyond 30.

murder she wrote

count 'em, this dude is finished

[Bob Sacamano]

Hey SuperPunk. Good to see you. Congratulations Summer. You're no longer the most uninformed person on this thread.

I guess being informed, to you, means carrying alot of conjecture around, instead of facts

f it, I'll gladly call myself uninformed

[superpunk]

Hey SuperPunk. Good to see you. Congratulations Summer. You're no longer the most uninformed person on this thread.

You've been here the whole damn time, so that would be impossible.

[Bob Sacamano]

speaking of which, why is he still on here? and doesnt he average like 10 posts per day on here? pathetic

[superpunk]

speaking of which, why is he still on here? and doesnt he average like 10 posts per day on here? pathetic

I don't know, but get ready. He's been bludgeoned to death with facts (which he's chosen to ignore), so I'd be expecting a shift in argument, or another some more backtracking. Should be fun.

:bang2:

[Bob Sacamano]

He's been bludgeoned to death with facts

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao:

anyways, how you been man?

[Bob Sacamano]

LMFAO! he averages 67.46 posts a day!

can you spell pathetic?

[superpunk]

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao:

anyways, how you been man?

Pretty damn good. Still fighting ignorant Giants fans (you know who I'm talking about, LOL) and getting my heart ripped out by the Cowboys every few weeks, but pretty good bsides that. How about you? How's the job going? Was it hell in the weather today?

[superpunk]

LMFAO! he averages 67.46 posts a day!

can you spell pathetic?

I thought you said math wasn't your strong suit? LOL

[brokeback]

Broke, you kill me, I give you facts you give me excuses.

Fact, the cowboys shut down offenses.
Fact, the cowboys played the top scoring offenses three weeks strait and shut them down.
Fact the Cowboys also went on a three game winning streak.
Fact Roy Williams is the Best SS in the league and he will be in the box (I hope LJ brought his depends undergarments to wear)
Fact, no team has returned a kick or punt on us for a touchdown.
Fact, as bad as our offense is, we lead the NFL is ToP.
Fact, your highpowered Offense has only scored 4 more TD's than us and we have been missing our Probowl LT for most of the year and have a 6th round rookie playing at right. (in fact I think it is kinda funny that your high powered offense only has 4 more TD's than us and they have 3 Probowl Linemen.......If we had three prowbowl linemen....I belive we would be undefeated.)
Fact philly and Denver both hung 30+ on you. Niether team scored no where near that on us.
Fact, two of your wins in your three game winning streak were gimmies. (Houston, New England)
Fact, you kicker ain't that great past 40 yards. (Not that ours is any better)
Fact your AWSOME special teamer DH, has only scored one TD this year.

You team ain't that great, I am not saying we are much better, but I like how we match up against you. Your offensive strengths play right into our defensive strengths. Honestly teams that give us problems are teams that generate a lot of pressure and have TWO good DE. We can account for one, two makes life hard for us. This will not be a high scoring game. LJ will not get 100 yards and TG will not surpass 250. Better hope your kicker can kick better thant 57% from beyond 30.
You did not shut down Denver. Period. You did not shut down NY. Period. You lost both games. You gave up 271 yards rushing during those games. The Chiefs, who do not have a very good defense, have not given up a 100 yard rusher this season. You've given up a 100 yard rusher each of the last 2 weeks.
I don't know what 3 week stretch of facing the best offenses in the NFL you're referring to, but you haven't played any of the top 3 offenses in the NFL this season even once.
Philly and Denver did put 31 and 30 on us respectively. San Francisco put 34 on you, and you hang your hat on your defense.
You start out by telling me about your not giving excuses then proceed to whine about injuries.
You then leave out the fact that, when we played Philly and Denver, we were missing our starting CB and 3 of our starting offensive linemen, 2 of which were in the ProBowl last year. As a result, we couldn't chew up the clock and put our defense in bad situations. That doesn't matter, though. We lost and that's that. That was our low point of the season. Fortunately it was 9 weeks ago. We are now playing our best football of the year on both sides of the ball.
The Cowboys are now in freefall. A few weeks ago, you looked like a lock for the playoffs at 7-3.
I like our chances.

[Bob Sacamano]

it snowed today, the job is doing great

lol, I check by about, every now and then, an the incessecent SP man-love over Unimoriafjidajfdks, by you know who(s), is crazy

oh yeah, and I saw bigscottyz's joke of a rankings, ask him why the Falcons are ranked ahead of Dallas, but if the playoffs started today, Dallas would hold the tiebreaker over them...

[Bob Sacamano]

what I say has no factual basis

.......

[superpunk]

it snowed today, the job is doing great

lol, I check by about, every now and then, an the incessecent SP man-love over Unimoriafjidajfdks, by you know who(s), is crazy

oh yeah, and I saw bigscottyz's joke of a rankings, ask him why the Falcons are ranked ahead of Dallas, but if the playoffs started today, Dallas would hold the tiebreaker over them...

It does no good, dude. Scotty has the same illness as gay cowboy eating pudding (brokeback). Factavoidalitis. (Allergic to facts)

Making up words is great.