Who do you think has done a better job rebuilding his franchise? Parcells or Gibbs?

[TruBlueCowboy]

Remember all the Gibbs vs. Parcells smack with Skins and Cowboys fans when Joe Gibbs was hired? After Gibbs first year, it looked like Jerry Jones had scored the most successful coach, but the Skins ain't looking that bad this year, and look to be well on their way to the same powerhouse they were with Gibbs in his first run.

Both the Skins and Cowboys were in similar situations when they brought in their HOF or future HOF coaches. They were both two proud franchises that had been run into the ground by what many would say were overbearing owners.

When Gibbs took over in 2004, it had been 6 years since the Skins had a winning record, and even more sad, the Skins had only enjoyed 2 winning seasons since Gibbs retired in 1992.

When Parcells took over in 2003, it had been 5 years since the Cowboys had a winning record, and they really hadn't been a serious playoff threat since 1996.

Both coaches shook some things up, getting rid of popular players. Gibbs traded Champ Bailey. Parcells didn't take Emmitt Smith back.

Maybe two of the biggest differences were that Gibbs went with his old coaching staff, and one of the brightest defensive coordinators in the league, while Parcells went mostly with new coaches and existing staff.

They also handled the QB situation a little different. Gibbs brought in his vet QB in year one, Parcells waited a year to see what he had. Both got their prodigy QBs in their second year to sit and learn while the vets played, and it remains to be seen who made the best choice, although judging by rumors of Henson to NFL Europe and his demotion to #3, it's not looking good for the Boys.

Gibbs flunked his first year, but man does his team look good this year. They are hot and brother, that's all you need to win the Super Bowl in this age of parity, be the hot team at the end! Parcells had a successful debut season, and instead flunked his second year, and some would say initiated the rebuilding in season three that he should have started in season one.

So who do you think has done the better job? Are both equal? If Gibbs goes far in the Playoffs, do you think he has done a better job with the Redskins? Vice versa for Parcells? Even though both teams were in bad shape, I would argue that Gibbs had more talent to work with than Parcells.

[kingwhicker]

The Skins are not as well set up for the long run, what with their recent and future dearth of draft picks- but Gibbs took over a better team talent wise than Parcells did. It always baffled me how they kept losing to us when they had superior talent-guess it goes to show that good coaching and team chemistry can make up for a lot and Gibbs has always been able to get the most out of the least- none of his championship teams were all that good- the best one lost the Super Bowl-the 1991 team was a one year wonder and I doubt many coaches would have had the same success that Gibbs did with it. Make no mistake Gibbs is a great coach, even if he is a nerd and a self-righteous bastid. Parcells has been handcuffed by a series of bad drafts that preceded him, the QC fiasco, and he has also badly whiffed on some FA signings and draft picks. Many of his game day decisions have also been head scratchers. RIght now I would say Gibbs has done a better job getting his team ready for the present while BP has set a solid foundation for a dominant defense in the future but the offense is junk. I don't think either team has a legit QB of the future- I think Campbell will be a bum.

[juice28]

Parcells has improved more over a shorter period of time than Gibbs. With the offseason the redskins are about to endure, they need to pray for a SB. Three years from now this comparison is null and void.

[THUMPER]

I voted that they were about the same.

I would say that Gibbs has done a better job of bringing in quality assistant coaches and coordinators while Parcells has done a better job of building more talent among the players.

Our drafts, outside of offensive linemen, have been much better than theirs as well as how we have handled FA. They gave up too much to get Portis, let some of their top defensive players walk, and wasted multiple picks on a backup QB.

We have missed and overpaid on some of our FA signings but overall we have done a good job of retaining good players and hitting in the draft. Trading down to still get Julius Jones as well as picking up Marcus Spears this year was a move that worked out well for us so far and will look even better as Spears gets up to speed next season.

[TonyS]

I think Gibbs has done a little better job. Just seems like the Skins have that attitude that a winning football team needs. I think it has a lot to do with the coaching, like another poster referred to previously.

Gibbs appears to let his defense take on the personality of the players and coordinator. They strut and walk with confidence when they need to and show up in the big games.

Meanwhile, our team seems to be tentative and almost look lost like Parcells is going to somehow come to their rescue. They don't want to screw up instead of imposing their will on the other team.

It would be interesting to see the same Cowboys players playing under Gibbs and Williams just to see if we would be a better team from the attitude/confidence factor.

Look how good Ware did ticked off about the Merriman issue. He pinned his ears back and didn't care about anything but dominating the other team. I think Gibbs & Co. does a better job of allowing their players to do that than Parcells does.

Both great coaches, however.

[riggo]

Parcells has improved more over a shorter period of time than Gibbs. With the offseason the redskins are about to endure, they need to pray for a SB. Three years from now this comparison is null and void.

parcells has improved more over a shorter period of time? historically or currently? explain, please.

and as far as the offseason, what are you anticipating?

and why is the comparison null and void 3 years from now?

[BrAinPaiNt]

parcells has improved more over a shorter period of time? historically or currently? explain, please.

and as far as the offseason, what are you anticipating?

and why is the comparison null and void 3 years from now?


What was Bills record his first season with the Cowboys...What was Gibbs record his first season with the Skins.

I would only guess that is what he meant.

[cnhnyy]

You asked this question after Redskins won four in a row (sneaked through sucky Rams/Cardinals and have two huge home wins)? Of course Redskins looks better now because they just won two huge home games. Where were you when we were 7-3 and redskins were 5-6?

Redskins are fortunate because they have no key injuries....Flo Injury really set us back big time.

In addition, Karma finally works in their way now. If we had had the two usually automatic wins against them, we would be 11-4 and they would be 7-8..:-)

[Yakuza Rich]

I wanted to say "by a long shot", but instead I went with "by a little" in favor of Parcells so I wouldn't sound like a complete homer.

The Cowboys are a far younger team with less expensive stars than what the Skins have going on right now. Gibbs would gain an advantage if Campbell turns out to be a good QB as while Bledsoe has played well, not having a QB of the future 5 years from now is the only thing that seems to be holding back this team.

The Skins will owe $$$$$ to Arrington next year plus who knows what will happen to Sean Taylor when he goes to court this offseason.

Rich........

[CrazyCowboy]

CrazyCowboy says it is "about the same"......

GO COWBOYS!

[aznhalf]

Redskins really shot themselves in the foot capwise and by trading away their future. The window is closing on them, they are better for now.

[Tio]

If campbell turns out to be a player, than Gibbs. Otherwise, pretty even.

[TruBlueCowboy]

Okay, I'm the biggest homer this side of the Mississippi, but I think some of you fellas ain't giving Gibbs enough credit. You can say Parcells is doing a better job in building for the future, and I would agree, ESPECIALLY after this year's draft. But... Parcells TRIED to do what Gibbs is doing. Both coaches made some unpopular moves in their first year, but you could argue that they didn't do an incredible amount of tinkering and instead tried to build a team around what they had. Parcells failed. Gibbs succeeded. That's why we're suddenly going 3-4, a new QB, all the free-agent signings, and other components of the Parcells third year rebuild campaign. Parcells tried to build a winner with that 5-11 team he inherited, but they just weren't strong enough to last more than that one dream season. As far as Parcells first year compared to Gibbs, Gibbs had been out of the NFL for more than a decade. As smart as the man is, I'm sure he had a learning curve. So you can argue that Gibbs had more to begin with, but using the first year records probably isn't as valid a point. Dick Vermeil was terrible his first year back after a decade off too. It happens to all of them. Just my two cents.

[RedskinNation]

I have a "hunch" LaVar will be gone next year aka saving 12 mil to the cap.

I voted "the same" based on how parcells atleast took his squad to the playoffs and Gibbs seams to be on that road. I think that Parcells has really turned that team around. The Cowboys will finish 10-6. Regardless how the Skins finish 10-6 is pretty darn good. I think that Parcells is a great coach and I think that if he stays around next year things will get even better (hopefully not though :-) .

Gibbs, however, stepped into a team with a less than favorable cap situation. He has had to manuver around that along with the L.Coles issue. The L.Coles issue (not wanting to be a Redskin) may have been the biggest blessing in disguise (as a negative) that the Redskins have dealt with in recent memory.

If i were the GM I would cut LaVar and save the 12 mil. Its a no brainer.

The Redskins havent made the playoffs under Gibbs second reign....but it is obvious that he has come along way in repairing the damage that existed.

[InmanRoshi]

Parcells.

The Redskins are already $27 million over the cap for 2006 and don't have a 1st round draft pick next year. Although, I don't know how much of that can be attributed to Gibbs, other than overpaying to bring in a vet QB in Brunnel. If Bledsoe and Brunnel have played about equally this year, consider how much cheaper Bledsoe came in salary and draft compensation.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9117553

[Maikeru-sama]

I will pass. I wont look at the trees but rather the entire forrest when both men have left.

- Mike G.

[TruBlueCowboy]

I will pass. I wont look at the trees but rather the entire forrest when both men have left.

- Mike G.

In that case, it's going to be vast forest with plenty of growing room, if Parcells under the Jets and Pats is any indication. ;)

Both of those franchises were wrecks, and Parcells left them winners and helped Herman Edwards and Bill Belichick have far less pieces to pick up after taking over.

[Maikeru-sama]

In that case, it's going to be vast forest with plenty of growing room, if Parcells under the Jets and Pats is any indication. ;)

Both of those franchises were wrecks, and Parcells left them winners and helped Herman Edwards and Bill Belichick have far less pieces to pick up after taking over.

Hmmm

See, I know this is going to be kind of a Homer deal

But I really think alot of Gibbs players were already there. Man, they had a pretty talented Roster to begin with but man the Portis Trade, bringing Marcus Washington over, the way Pierce played last year etc etc, is pretty impressive.

I really really dont think it is a coincidence that....Gibbs is hired...and 2 years later they are sweeping us.

I still have to sit on the fence and wait...just way to early to say.

[TruBlueCowboy]

Hmmm

See, I know this is going to be kind of a Homer deal

But I really think alot of Gibbs players were already there. Man, they had a pretty talented Roster to begin with but man the Portis Trade, bringing Marcus Washington over, the way Pierce played last year etc etc, is pretty impressive.

I really really dont think it is a coincidence that....Gibbs is hired...and 2 years later they are sweeping us.

I still have to sit on the fence and wait...just way to early to say.

At first I wanted to say Gibbs had FAR MORE talent than Parcells, but then I started thinking about it, and while I still think the Skins had more talent, I'm not sure it was by a big margin.

Going off the top of my head....

QBs..... Both had young guys who had looked like crap.

RBs..... Nada.

WRs.... Laverneus Coles, Joey Galloway

OL...... Chris Samuels, Jon Jansen, Flozell Adams, Larry Allen

DL...... Greg Ellis, La'Roi Glover, who did the Skins have?

LB...... LaVar Arrington (who you could argue is too much of a head case to matter), Antonio Pierce, Dat Nguyen, Dexter Coakley

S........ Roy Williams

CB...... Champ Bailey

They had a great young corner, but we had a great young safety. They probably had more talent at linebacker, but unless I'm forgetting someone, I don't think Gibbs inherited a lot of intimidating players on his defensive line. Offensive line probably push? Both had two good vet receivers, you could say Coles had more trade value, though. They both started with pretty similar rosters. The more I think about it, the more I realize how good a job Gibbs did in quickly getting that roster together.

[Maikeru-sama]

They had a great young corner, but we had a great young safety. They probably had more talent at linebacker, but unless I'm forgetting someone, I don't think Gibbs inherited a lot of intimidating players on his defensive line. Offensive line probably push?

Which brings me to my 2nd point. I think acquiring Gregg Williams was huge for them. He had Matt Bowen looking like a bona fide kamakaze bltizing Pro Bowl machine a couple of years ago.

Sal Palantonio and the guy on Fox said Williams is at the top of alot of head coaching job lists.

I wish we had a defensive innovator like that on our team.

Now I will amusingly wait for summoffun or whatever his name is to follow me in this thread proclaiming I have an agenda :bang2: .

That is why I keep saying I have to wait. Both guys are far from finished, I think the success of the next head coach will always provide a clue as who was the best job.

[Maikeru-sama]

Oh and Tru, that is a good observation, I was like you, thought they had way more talent then we did, but I guess when you break it down, it was pretty even.

But you gotta remember though, they were spending way more money then we were then.

[ghost]

I voted that they were about the same.

I would say that Gibbs has done a better job of bringing in quality assistant coaches and coordinators while Parcells has done a better job of building more talent among the players.

Our drafts, outside of offensive linemen, have been much better than theirs as well as how we have handled FA. They gave up too much to get Portis, let some of their top defensive players walk, and wasted multiple picks on a backup QB.

We have missed and overpaid on some of our FA signings but overall we have done a good job of retaining good players and hitting in the draft. Trading down to still get Julius Jones as well as picking up Marcus Spears this year was a move that worked out well for us so far and will look even better as Spears gets up to speed next season.

draft-wise, we haven't done that much worse than you guys- sean taylor and chris cooley were all pro-bowl worthy, carlos rogers is getting better every game, jason campbell is a rook qb on the bench, Mccune and Broughton have both seriosuly helped our kick return unit- one of the reasons why we've taken two to the house this year.

[TruBlueCowboy]

Which brings me to my 2nd point. I think acquiring Gregg Williams was huge for them. He had Matt Bowen looking like a bona fide kamakaze bltizing Pro Bowl machine a couple of years ago.

Sal Palantonio and the guy on Fox said Williams is at the top of alot of head coaching job lists.

I wish we had a defensive innovator like that on our team.

Now I will amusingly wait for summoffun or whatever his name is to follow me in this thread proclaiming I have an agenda :bang2: .

That is why I keep saying I have to wait. Both guys are far from finished, I think the success of the predoccesor will always provide a clue as who was the best job.

I agree with that. Greg Williams was maybe the best move Gibbs made. I don't mean to trash Zimmer because I think he's done a good job, but what Williams did to that defense is incredible. Hell, I remember looking at their roster thinking we were going to steamroll over the defense. They had what I thought was one of the worst defensive lines in the NFL.

[riggo]

What was Bills record his first season with the Cowboys...What was Gibbs record his first season with the Skins.

I would only guess that is what he meant.

probably. parcells gets credit for going 10-6 his first year, but then regressed his second whereas gibbs is flourishing with a team of players that he brought in- draft picks and FA's. i think right now you'd have to say gibbs has done a great job. if the boys make the playoffs, you could say parcells is going in the right direction.

[silver]

ask this question again on Monday. we should have a clearer picture then

[Wheat]

I guess this is just a "wait and see" type of thing.

I believe that in 2 years, Gibbs will still be in Washington while the Tuna will either be retired for a 4th time, or looking at his 5th team to be Head Coach of.

If Campbell becomes the man in 06 or 07. Then I'd say that was a savvy move.

The Ramsey and Lavar situations will play out this offseason. But I wouldn't expect Washington to bring in a lot of outside help. Maybe a #2 WR, a DE and some depth at CB. That's about it.

Everybody else is locked up.

I don't know the cap numbers for next year, but with Coles counting like 10 mil on the cap this year, and being all the way off next season. I can't imagine they are way over going into next season.

[Maikeru-sama]

I agree with that. Greg Williams was maybe the best move Gibbs made. I don't mean to trash Zimmer because I think he's done a good job, but what Williams did to that defense is incredible. Hell, I remember looking at their roster thinking we were going to steamroll over the defense. They had what I thought was one of the worst defensive lines in the NFL.

Yep.

No way could you have told me they would destroy us 35-7....

I am still shaken by what happen that game.

Phillip Daniels only had like 3 sacks that game and I think he doubled it against us.

- Mike G.

[ConcordCowboy]

It's about even.

Although you wouldn't know it by the shelacking the the Redskins just gave us! :D