if payton and zimmer go

[iceberg]

and parcells only wants to be here 1 more year - how much control do you give him over "long term" decisions?

many of us didn't like the move to the 3-4 for this very reason. but if they do both go does bill just take OC on to save that spot for when he leaves and we hire a DC and be done with it?

or would we let bill hire someone we may not want when he goes?

there's a reason the top 2 positions outside HC are leaving. ignore it at your leisure. but if you were a coach on a team you honestly felt had a good shot to be a contender and win a superbowl, would you just up and leave?

[Eddie]

We're not in a bad spot if we decide to return to the 4-3. We'd actually be in better shape.

Canty, Spears, and Ware make formidable DE's. Ratliff and Fergie make a decent DT combo. This is also assuming Ellis and Glover are gone ... if not, we have some great depth along the DL.

For LB's ... Burnett and James would be good starters, and we'd only need to find one more OLB.

So there ... the 4-3 would be easier to fill than the 3-4. With our 3-4, we still need 2 more LB's ... in place of Ellis and Glover.

If we move back to the 4-3, I'd be a happy camper. :)

[lspain1]

there's a reason the top 2 positions outside HC are leaving. ignore it at your leisure. but if you were a coach on a team you honestly felt had a good shot to be a contender and win a superbowl, would you just up and leave?


I think the answer to that question has to be....Yes. There are a large number of openings this year and a real opportunity for some new people. Even if you want to go to a super bowl, you have to take your shot at the brass ring when you get it.

[Zman5]

Don't worry. We got Shanle. That's all we need. 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, 2-5. It doesn't matter. Shanle can do it all.

[iceberg]

I think the answer to that question has to be....Yes. There are a large number of openings this year and a real opportunity for some new people. Even if you want to go to a super bowl, you have to take your shot at the brass ring when you get it.

i'm torn to a point on this one and can really see either side. the fact that there are so many openings this year hurts trying to keep talent also. i'm really more concerned with how much control do we give a coach who won't committ.

[Eddie]

I think continuity is over-rated, and basically, non-existent in the NFL these days. Even if the HC remains, assistant coaches come and go almost on a yearly basis.

So to have an OC for 2-3 year is about as much continuity as you can expect. If he's a good OC, he'd headed for bigger things. If the OC stinks, he's gone.

Either way, the OC and DC's are replaced almost yearly.

So we were "lucky" to have Payton and Zimmer for 3 years. If they leave, then we do as all other teams do ... move on and replace them.

If it means a new system, so be it. Athletes are paid millions. They'll learn.

[iceberg]

I think continuity is over-rated, and basically, non-existent in the NFL these days. Even if the HC remains, assistant coaches come and go almost on a yearly basis.

So to have an OC for 2-3 year is about as much continuity as you can expect. If he's a good OC, he'd headed for bigger things. If the OC stinks, he's gone.

Either way, the OC and DC's are replaced almost yearly.

So we were "lucky" to have Payton and Zimmer for 3 years. If they leave, then we do as all other teams do ... move on and replace them.

If it means a new system, so be it. Athletes are paid millions. They'll learn.

but if new system time (and i don't think that will be the case) why let a "lame duck" coach put it in?

[followthestar]

i would give parcells total control over who to bring in, then shuffle the pack as needed once he leaves. let him bring in whoever he wishes, and personally i won't be sorry to see payton go but i hope zimmer stays.

[Mash]

I look at guys like Payton Manning, Trent Green....Farve....Palmer...Brady...they been runniing the same system for years....you need that to be successfull. I think especially on offence you need to be consistant with the system u run and usually that occurs with the same coordinator or a diciple of his.

Some used that as a excuse with Carter's struggles here....he never had the same system back to back years. McNair struggled this year with Chow's offence. We were fortunate that both Vinny and Drew knew this offence system with their past experience playing for Bill.

[KingTuna]

As long as we get Dom Capers as D/C then I will be happy!

[Rockytop6]

I seriously doubt Zimmer and Payton are going any where. I know they were contacted but every DC, OC and waterboy have been contacted by somebody.

[sago1]

And maybe Parcells isn't as wild to have both Zimmer & Payton back as some might think. Maybe Parcells would rather have someone like Dom Capers who knows the 3-4 system extremely well & who could teach our defense all the ins/outs of the more complex/packages the 3-4 defensive scheme is known for rather then the vanilla defense we had to play last year.

As for Payton just don't know how much control he really had. Certainly seems like his play calling many times differed from what he did with Giants. One of the criticisms leveled at him in NY was that his offense was too complicated, etc. It sure didn't look at that here. Don't know who I would want in place of Payton & Norv's offense with Raiders sure didn't get off the ground but don't know much about the problem. Would think there other offensive coaches available to replace Payton.

Also want a new OL coach with long-time experience coaching that position in the NFL. Raphel Vela mentioned the GB OL might be available depending onwhat happening there, but what about the current OL coach at KC. With new HC coming in, maybe that guy will be cut lose. Certainly doesn't appear any of the NY Jet coaches going along with new KC HC.

[Nors]

Parcells has tremendously upgraded our 53 man roster in his tenure her. A few pegs to address on Oline, FS.....

Him staying is a great thing. Who do you hire to replace him? Jimmy Johnson is gone so spare that? Who?

[Sarge]

Next year is Parcell's last year here, not this past one.

[iceberg]

Next year is Parcell's last year here, not this past one.

is it official then sarge??? man, i wish parcells would nut-up and tell every one then. otherwise you're just guessin like the rest of us.

[Jarv]

and parcells only wants to be here 1 more year - how much control do you give him over "long term" decisions?

many of us didn't like the move to the 3-4 for this very reason. but if they do both go does bill just take OC on to save that spot for when he leaves and we hire a DC and be done with it?

or would we let bill hire someone we may not want when he goes?

there's a reason the top 2 positions outside HC are leaving. ignore it at your leisure. but if you were a coach on a team you honestly felt had a good shot to be a contender and win a superbowl, would you just up and leave?

Payton is something like an assitant head coach and QB or passing coach. We have no OC...Kinda odd, I think we are the only team in the league with no OC. I wonder why that is and I wonder how that affected the Offense ?

Oh well, I look at it this way too. If Zimmer & Payton leave, who would replace them that wasn't already a "Parcels guys". And are there any "Parcels guys" availible ? With BP's rep now of micro management and ultra control, I don't think that "established and reputable" cordinators would even want to work with BP. BP would probably not give them "free reign" to run thier units as they see fit.

So, Zimmer & Payton leave and "If" no ex BP guy is there...We get to promote from within or get a "non established and reputable" cordinators...Because that is all that would be willing to come here, for a promotion.

Was Zimmer & Payton given control over their units, no...

If you were Greg Willaims would you want to come work for BP ? Probably not. If you were Kubiak or another top notch OC, would you want to work for BP ?

Heck, we don't even have an OC so BP might not even really want to replace a position that doesn't even excist in our organization. Heck, since we don't have an OC maybe BP feels we might not even need a DC.

The last thing that has been bantered about too is, if you were to take a job as a cordinator here, you know the HC only has 1 year left on his contract. You could be coming for a 1 year gig because when we get a new HC next year, he better have the authority of hiring his own staff or we are back to the good ole years of Jerry hiring a coach and making a puppet out of them (ala Campo) and not letting them hire their own staff...That is not the type of HC we need in the future.

[iceberg]

wild. it used to be we had an owner no legit coach would work for. now that we've solved that, we now have a coach no assistant wants to work for.

[Jarv]

wild. it used to be we had an owner no legit coach would work for. now that we've solved that, we now have a coach no assistant wants to work for.

Ironic, isn't it.

[Skip]

and parcells only wants to be here 1 more year - how much control do you give him over "long term" decisions?

many of us didn't like the move to the 3-4 for this very reason. but if they do both go does bill just take OC on to save that spot for when he leaves and we hire a DC and be done with it?

or would we let bill hire someone we may not want when he goes?

there's a reason the top 2 positions outside HC are leaving. ignore it at your leisure. but if you were a coach on a team you honestly felt had a good shot to be a contender and win a superbowl, would you just up and leave?

Actually I hope we end up with a HC after BP that will keep the 3-4 and be aggressive with it!

Also maybe just maybe Payton and Zimmer know they are in trouble with BP and think they will be replaced anyway.

Clearly just speculation here.

[juice28]

wild. it used to be we had an owner no legit coach would work for. now that we've solved that, we now have a coach no assistant wants to work for.

well it's getting better then right. that means in a couple of years we'll have assistant coaches no players want to play for.

Wait....that's getting worse

[iceberg]

Actually I hope we end up with a HC after BP that will keep the 3-4 and be aggressive with it!

Also maybe just maybe Payton and Zimmer know they are in trouble with BP and think they will be replaced anyway.

Clearly just speculation here.

possible, but these days who isn't in trouble w/bp?

[Hostile]

and parcells only wants to be here 1 more year - how much control do you give him over "long term" decisions?

many of us didn't like the move to the 3-4 for this very reason. but if they do both go does bill just take OC on to save that spot for when he leaves and we hire a DC and be done with it?

or would we let bill hire someone we may not want when he goes?

there's a reason the top 2 positions outside HC are leaving. ignore it at your leisure. but if you were a coach on a team you honestly felt had a good shot to be a contender and win a superbowl, would you just up and leave?Missed this yesterday.

We aren't that far from a 4-3 D, but retaining Glover would be even more important. I think Glover is so much better than Ferguson in any scheme.

If Parcells leaves I honestly think Jerry considers Zimmer. Would Zimmer go back to the 4-3? I'm not so sure he would.

I just wish we'd find out one way or the other and start getting ready for 2006. No matter what Parcells is doing in his office every day as Mick reports, if he isn't going to be here it means another day the team isn't moving forward.

That bugs me.

[Skip]

possible, but these days who isn't in trouble w/bp?

Thanks I needed a smile today and of course you are right, LOL!

[Doomsday101]

Missed this yesterday.

We aren't that far from a 4-3 D, but retaining Glover would be even more important. I think Glover is so much better than Ferguson in any scheme.

If Parcells leaves I honestly think Jerry considers Zimmer. Would Zimmer go back to the 4-3? I'm not so sure he would.

I just wish we'd find out one way or the other and start getting ready for 2006. No matter what Parcells is doing in his office every day as Mick reports, if he isn't going to be here it means another day the team isn't moving forward.

That bugs me.

Bill is not holding anything up, Dallas is taking care of business with things like our own FA and really will not be able to do much outside of that until the end of the SB and I'm sure the Cowboys will know what Bill will do before that time comes. I know everyone want to know right now what Bill is going to do but it really is not having any effect at all right now.

[jimmy40]

I think the answer to that question has to be....Yes. There are a large number of openings this year and a real opportunity for some new people. Even if you want to go to a super bowl, you have to take your shot at the brass ring when you get it.I'd have to think going from an assistant that's not allowed to talk in public to being a head coach that deals with the media 24/7 would be a major shock to someone's system.

[iceberg]

Bill is not holding anything up, Dallas is taking care of business with things like our own FA and really will not be able to do much outside of that until the end of the SB and I'm sure the Cowboys will know what Bill will do before that time comes. I know everyone want to know right now what Bill is going to do but it really is not having any effect at all right now.

this state of "limbo" may be real, it may be perceived, but it *is* here. no, i don't think it puts us in a "hurt" right now but it is continuing the frustration and eggs on the overall "what in the HELL are you doing, bp?" questions. for whatever reason parcells needs the drama to be on him, not the team. that's my running theme of bp - whatever works for bp is what we do - not what works for the team. sometimes those mix, sometimes they don't.

[Doomsday101]

this state of "limbo" may be real, it may be perceived, but it *is* here. no, i don't think it puts us in a "hurt" right now but it is continuing the frustration and eggs on the overall "what in the HELL are you doing, bp?" questions. for whatever reason parcells needs the drama to be on him, not the team. that's my running theme of bp - whatever works for bp is what we do - not what works for the team. sometimes those mix, sometimes they don't.

The season is less than a week old, get a grip there is nothing taking place in the NFL and Bill is not slowing a damn thing up. This is just another example of fans with absolutely no patients what so ever. You want something and you want it right now well sorry he is not working on your time schedule.

[Hostile]

Bill is not holding anything up, Dallas is taking care of business with things like our own FA and really will not be able to do much outside of that until the end of the SB and I'm sure the Cowboys will know what Bill will do before that time comes. I know everyone want to know right now what Bill is going to do but it really is not having any effect at all right now.I disagree respectfully Dooms. It is affecting whether of OC and DC stay or go. I consider that a hold up of sorts.

[Doomsday101]

I disagree respectfully Dooms. It is affecting whether of OC and DC stay or go. I consider that a hold up of sorts.

Both coordinators are getting a chance to interview for new jobs but I think that was going to be the case regardless if this subject of Bill retiring ever came up or not just as it was the case last season. Also the interview process that Zimmer and Payton are currently in is a faily long process because the teams who are interviewing them are also interviewing others and I think Bill will tell Jerry what he is going to do before that process is over.

[Hostile]

Both coordinators are getting a chance to interview for new jobs but I think that was going to be the case regardless if this subject of Bill retiring ever came up or not just as it was the case last season. Also the interview process that Zimmer and Payton are currently in is a faily long process because the teams who are interviewing them are also interviewing others and I think Bill will tell Jerry what he is going to do before that process is over.Yes, it is. They need to know whether or not they would candidates here too.

[ConcordCowboy]

this state of "limbo" may be real, it may be perceived, but it *is* here. no, i don't think it puts us in a "hurt" right now but it is continuing the frustration and eggs on the overall "what in the HELL are you doing, bp?" questions. for whatever reason parcells needs the drama to be on him, not the team. that's my running theme of bp - whatever works for bp is what we do - not what works for the team. sometimes those mix, sometimes they don't.

Good post...I really like the bold part...Good way of putting it.

[ConcordCowboy]

Missed this yesterday.

We aren't that far from a 4-3 D, but retaining Glover would be even more important. I think Glover is so much better than Ferguson in any scheme.



No question In my mind either.