Feasible???

[neosapien23]

Do you guys think the Cowboys could trade next years number one pick, numer 5 pick, and Greg Ellis for a number one pick this year? This would allow the Cowboys to grab Manny Lawson and Huff or McNeil. Hopefully the Cowboys would do so well that next years number one would be extremely low.
It would also allow us to take Cutler or Holmes if they are still there.

1. Manny Lawson
1. Huff, McNeil, Cutler, or Holmes. Which ever falls.
2. Mangold, Spencer, or Trueblood. Need a lineman

[SkinsandTerps]

I must have missed this somewhere along the way but why is Ellis the primary person involved with trade scenarios ?

[neosapien23]

I must have missed this somewhere along the way but why is Ellis the primary person involved with trade scenarios ?

He is still a very good player, but does not want to play in the 3-4. His contract is very moderate so there is no need to release him. A team like Denver could trade for him and not take a huge cap hit. Glover and Allen have no trade value, because their salaries are so high that teams know we will cut them. I consider Ellis about a 2nd or 3rd pick in trade value.

[SkinsandTerps]

He is still a very good player, but does not want to play in the 3-4. His contract is very moderate so there is no need to release him. A team like Denver could trade for him and not take a huge cap hit. Glover and Allen have no trade value, because their salaries are so high that teams know we will cut them. I consider Ellis about a 2nd or 3rd pick in trade value.

Doesnt Denver seem unlikely ? They were praised all season for taking the Browns "garbage" and being pretty solid.

[panchucko]

I must have missed this somewhere along the way but why is Ellis the primary person involved with trade scenarios ?

Because we can't use Dexter Coakley as trade bait.

[sago1]

For the record, Broncos draft pick value at 30th selection is 620.

Yes, you right Broncos were pleased with DL during regular season but doubt they too happy with their play against Steelers. Their pretty solid DL wasn't able get any QB pressure against the Steelers; Denver tried bring QB pressure (like they did most of season) by blitzing their LB, etc., but were unsuccessful so they lost. If Shanahan wants get to SB, he better upgrade DL so he can also bring pressure from DL & Ellis would be good fit for them.

Only question is do we want use our 07 first round pick this year? This is a good draft & there will be lot of players available late first round as well as early 2nd who can really help us. We'd be adding another player who could start for us. I'd love to draft Michael Huff (probably will be gone) before we draft at 18th but Lawson/Carpenter/etc should be available at 30th pick. Only problem is we must make it as interesting to the Broncos as it is to us.

Expect to see Skins competing with Cowboys & perhaps others for Broncos 30th pick. Skins might try packaging Arrington with their first pick in 07. BTW: Skins have been very successful in the past when Gibbs was HC in trading away their first round picks in the next year for extra pick in current year. Each year it seemed like they did that. Notice they did it again last year when they used it to draft Campbell.

[big dog cowboy]

Do you guys think the Cowboys could trade next years number one pick, numer 5 pick, and Greg Ellis for a number one pick this year? This would allow the Cowboys to grab Manny Lawson and Huff or McNeil.
What do we do about a first round pick next year?

[Hostile]

For the record, Broncos draft pick value at 30th selection is 620.

Yes, you right Broncos were pleased with DL during regular season but doubt they too happy with their play against Steelers. Their pretty solid DL wasn't able get any QB pressure against the Steelers; Denver tried bring QB pressure (like they did most of season) by blitzing their LB, etc., but were unsuccessful so they lost. If Shanahan wants get to SB, he better upgrade DL so he can also bring pressure from DL & Ellis would be good fit for them.

Only question is do we want use our 07 first round pick this year? This is a good draft & there will be lot of players available late first round as well as early 2nd who can really help us. We'd be adding another player who could start for us. I'd love to draft Michael Huff (probably will be gone) before we draft at 18th but Lawson/Carpenter/etc should be available at 30th pick. Only problem is we must make it as interesting to the Broncos as it is to us.

Expect to see Skins competing with Cowboys & perhaps others for Broncos 30th pick. Skins might try packaging Arrington with their first pick in 07. BTW: Skins have been very successful in the past when Gibbs was HC in trading away their first round picks in the next year for extra pick in current year. Each year it seemed like they did that. Notice they did it again last year when they used it to draft Campbell.29th. Indy is 30th.

[neosapien23]

What do we do about a first round pick next year?

Nothing. I'm hoping that the Cowboys can get another player like McNeil, Cutler, or Holmes. A player in the RT, QB, and to some extent WR would be better served being taken this year. It usually takes them a little longer to learn the position. Next year instead of having a first we will have someone with a year experience. With the low number one, we can take Manny Lawson or some other tweener that works out well at the combine to contribute this year. If Culter, Huff, or Holmes are still there at 18, this may be something to consider. Especially Cutler. We need to win now, but we need a quarterback for the future.

[big dog cowboy]

Nothing. I'm hoping that the Cowboys can get another player like McNeil, Cutler, or Holmes. A player in the RT, QB, and to some extent WR would be better served being taken this year. It usually takes them a little longer to learn the position. Next year instead of having a first we will have someone with a year experience. With the low number one, we can take Manny Lawson or some other tweener that works out well at the combine to contribute this year. If Culter, Huff, or Holmes are still there at 18, this may be something to consider. Especially Cutler. We need to win now, but we need a quarterback for the future.
Then why don't we trade our first round pick for each of the next 6 or 7 years and fill all our holes at once?

[AbeBeta]

You trade future #1's for can't miss guys at skill positions -- you'd do this for a very special player or if you saw a guy you had ranked in say the top 5 drop to 25ish or so.

Usually, it is a stupid move value wise -- the "value" of a future pick (compared to a pick in the current year) is usually considerably reduced. Most teams would expect us to be pretty good next year -- they'd value our first about the same as a mid or early second in this years' draft.

[Big Country]

Do you guys think the Cowboys could trade next years number one pick, numer 5 pick, and Greg Ellis for a number one pick this year? This would allow the Cowboys to grab Manny Lawson and Huff or McNeil. Hopefully the Cowboys would do so well that next years number one would be extremely low.
It would also allow us to take Cutler or Holmes if they are still there.

1. Manny Lawson
1. Huff, McNeil, Cutler, or Holmes. Which ever falls.
2. Mangold, Spencer, or Trueblood. Need a lineman


Don't need to draft little guys when that obviously was not the problem... Do you remember how bad the OL play was... I don't understand why everyone is so horribly concerned with one position in the defensive backfield, or getting a flashy speedy wide receiver who would need at least a little time to develop... Also, we still have a deep threat at WR. People the defensive backfield with Henry, Newman, A. Glenn, and oh yeah Roy Williams is one hell of a backfield...

I'd rather concern myself with protecting one position of weakness in a very strong defensive backfield rather than having to protect two bad offensive tackles and a center who gets pushed into his QB's face every play. Protecting one position as opposed to protecting three positions looks like a no-brainer... Oh yeah, the WRs work just fine the way they did before Crayton and Flozell went down with injury... Did I just say Flozell??? I must have mentioned the offensive line earlier...

[neosapien23]

Then why don't we trade our first round pick for each of the next 6 or 7 years and fill all our holes at once?

Trading a number 1 for next year to get a number 1 year is not ludicrous.

[neosapien23]

Don't need to draft little guys when that obviously was not the problem... Do you remember how bad the OL play was... I don't understand why everyone is so horribly concerned with one position in the defensive backfield, or getting a flashy speedy wide receiver who would need at least a little time to develop... Also, we still have a deep threat at WR. People the defensive backfield with Henry, Newman, A. Glenn, and oh yeah Roy Williams is one hell of a backfield...

I'd rather concern myself with protecting one position of weakness in a very strong defensive backfield rather than having to protect two bad offensive tackles and a center who gets pushed into his QB's face every play. Protecting one position as opposed to protecting three positions looks like a no-brainer... Oh yeah, the WRs work just fine the way they did before Crayton and Flozell went down with injury... Did I just say Flozell??? I must have mentioned the offensive line earlier...

If the Cowboys could land McNeil, Lawson, and Spencer or Mangold that would go a long way for the Oline.
1. McNeil
1. Lawson
2. Spencer/Mangold Depending on what BP thinks is a bigger need.

If the Cowboys signed free agent linemen like Barry and Bentley than obviously our needs would change to QB, WR, and then FS. Thats why I listed other possible picks. Greg Ellis's trade value is somewhere around a 2nd. If we trade him and next years first for a number 1 pick this year, we could land someone who could contribute now rather than later. If Cutler was there he might be an intriguing possibility as well. The way I look at it we would be trading a first round pick for another first round pick. Ellis is a good player, but it is obvious that he might become a problem. He does not want to be a "rotational" player and still views himself as a starter and he is not wrong with his assessment. He will not be happy playing for Parcells next year.

[Clove]

What do we do about a first round pick next year?I'm hoping for the 32nd pick next year, so the value wouldn't be much. At some point Parcells may want to sell out to get the final pieces this year. FA/Draft.

You only do that,IMO, if you're close. I think we're close enough to go for it.

[fortdick]

What do we do about a first round pick next year?

Brady Quinn!

[BigDFan5]

Don't need to draft little guys when that obviously was not the problem... Do you remember how bad the OL play was... I don't understand why everyone is so horribly concerned with one position in the defensive backfield, or getting a flashy speedy wide receiver who would need at least a little time to develop... Also, we still have a deep threat at WR. People the defensive backfield with Henry, Newman, A. Glenn, and oh yeah Roy Williams is one hell of a backfield...

I'd rather concern myself with protecting one position of weakness in a very strong defensive backfield rather than having to protect two bad offensive tackles and a center who gets pushed into his QB's face every play. Protecting one position as opposed to protecting three positions looks like a no-brainer... Oh yeah, the WRs work just fine the way they did before Crayton and Flozell went down with injury... Did I just say Flozell??? I must have mentioned the offensive line earlier...



you know Jerry already said no 1st rd OLinmen would be taken right?

[AbeBeta]

you know Jerry already said no 1st rd OLinmen would be taken right?

yeah, I believe Jerry. Whatever. Don't put any stock in this- you never let other teams know what you are going to do or not do. Nobody believes anything folks say about this stuff. I can tell you if the top OT is on the board when we pick, we'll either take him or get a good trade out of it.

[neosapien23]

Who's the real GM, Jerry or BP. Now if Parcells said no lineman than I'd believe it. Besides Jerry might be blowing smoke. Teams never say who they are really intrested in. Ware was not even interviewed by the Cowboys and they gave Merriman alot of attention.

[BigDFan5]

yeah, I believe Jerry. Whatever. Don't put any stock in this- you never let other teams know what you are going to do or not do. Nobody believes anything folks say about this stuff. I can tell you if the top OT is on the board when we pick, we'll either take him or get a good trade out of it.



Last year Jerry said same thing, he says it every year and we havent taken one yet. As deep as OT is he will look at the in rd 2

[BigDFan5]

Who's the real GM, Jerry or BP. Now if Parcells said no lineman than I'd believe it. Besides Jerry might be blowing smoke. Teams never say who they are really intrested in. Ware was not even interviewed by the Cowboys and they gave Merriman alot of attention.



Ware was interviewed by the Cowboys, when was the last time a Parcells team drafted OLine in rd 1?

[neosapien23]

No Ware was never interviewed. He said that he was really surprised the Cowboys didn't talk to him. I'm not saying your not right about taking a tackle in the first, but never say never. Maybe Parcells is having a change of heart after seeing his 2nd and 3rd round lineman flop. Johnson, Rogers, and to a certain extent Peterman.

[BigDFan5]

No Ware was never interviewed. He said that he was really surprised the Cowboys didn't talk to him. I'm not saying your not right about taking a tackle in the first, but never say never. Maybe Parcells is having a change of heart after seeing his 2nd and 3rd round lineman flop. Johnson, Rogers, and to a certain extent Peterman.


We talked to ware at the combine last year.

So since parcells is worried about his OLine draft picks flopping he will take one higher? We will get a RT in FA

[neosapien23]

We talked to ware at the combine last year.

So since parcells is worried about his OLine draft picks flopping he will take one higher? We will get a RT in FA

Once and that was it. Everyone thought Merriman was going to be our pick. I would like FA linemen that are young. Barry and Bentley. No to Ashworth and Runyan. I would rather have a 1st round tackle than those two.

[BigDFan5]

Once and that was it. Everyone thought Merriman was going to be our pick. I would like FA linemen that are young. Barry and Bentley. No to Ashworth and Runyan. I would rather have a 1st round tackle than those two.


We only interviewed Merriman once also. Alot of people had us taking Ware over Merriman. Goose, Dr Z among others

If you are looking for a first round tackle you are going to be disappointed IMO

[AbeBeta]

Last year Jerry said same thing, he says it every year and we havent taken one yet. As deep as OT is he will look at the in rd 2

It was though somewhat widely reported that we would have taken Shawn Andrews had he still been on the board in '03. He's an OT.

[BigDFan5]

It was though somewhat widely reported that we would have taken Shawn Andrews had he still been on the board in '03. He's an OT.



I heard that from some media, but never from anyone inside the organization.

[AbeBeta]

I heard that from some media, but never from anyone inside the organization.

when was the last time you heard something like that from inside the organization?

[AbeBeta]

If you are looking for a first round tackle you are going to be disappointed IMO

I think Jerry's comments should be read as "we aren't looking for a left tackle"

All the guys who go in the first have LT potential -- The organizational philosophy seems more like "want an RT? draft an RT -- not an LT" -- why use a 1st and then under utilize the guy? I believe that Jerrry and Bill both feel that mid-first is no place RTs and guys on the o-line interior.

we can fill the RT need in the 2nd -- if we don't pick up someone as an FA.

[Big Country]

If the Cowboys could land McNeil, Lawson, and Spencer or Mangold that would go a long way for the Oline.
1. McNeil
1. Lawson
2. Spencer/Mangold Depending on what BP thinks is a bigger need.

If the Cowboys signed free agent linemen like Barry and Bentley than obviously our needs would change to QB, WR, and then FS. Thats why I listed other possible picks. Greg Ellis's trade value is somewhere around a 2nd. If we trade him and next years first for a number 1 pick this year, we could land someone who could contribute now rather than later. If Cutler was there he might be an intriguing possibility as well. The way I look at it we would be trading a first round pick for another first round pick. Ellis is a good player, but it is obvious that he might become a problem. He does not want to be a "rotational" player and still views himself as a starter and he is not wrong with his assessment. He will not be happy playing for Parcells next year.


Did you mean OT Barry from the Packers??? I'd bet that Bentley is going to be a franchise player... signs just point to it... I do see your reasoning now... I'm just thinking the way I am due to a boatload of offensive linemen in this draft. Youth is a priority and it would be less expensive than getting free agents. Only time will tell. Dallas needs trenchmen not aviators.

[neosapien23]

Did you mean OT Barry from the Packers??? I'd bet that Bentley is going to be a franchise player... signs just point to it... I do see your reasoning now... I'm just thinking the way I am due to a boatload of offensive linemen in this draft. Youth is a priority and it would be less expensive than getting free agents. Only time will tell. Dallas needs trenchmen not aviators.


Yes Kevin Barry from the Packers. Not too sure about Bentley getting frachised. Someone pointed out that linemen all recieve the same amount on the frachise tag. Bentley would recieve the same pay as the top paid Olinemen in the NFL not top center pay. Not sure the Saints would want to pay Bentley tackle money under the frachise tag if they couldn't resign him. Benson has a reputation for being cheap. He let Willie Roaf leave despite him being one of the best OTs in the game. I agree with your assessment. It all starts with the Oline.

[AbeBeta]

Yes Kevin Barry from the Packers.

barry is like the Pack's Andre Gurode. only at tackle not guard.

[neosapien23]

barry is like the Pack's Andre Gurode. only at tackle not guard.

I don't know about that. He didn't give up alot of sacks this year despite having to come off the bench. I may be alone in this, but Gurode is a better lineman at this point in his career than Rivera. I wouldn't mind resigning him and letting him take over LAs spot if he won't take a pay cut.

[AbeBeta]

I don't know about that. He didn't give up alot of sacks this year despite having to come off the bench. I may be alone in this, but Gurode is a better lineman at this point in his career than Rivera. I wouldn't mind resigning him and letting him take over LAs spot if he won't take a pay cut.

Barry didn't give up a lot of sacks because he only had one start.

[neosapien23]

Barry didn't give up a lot of sacks because he only had one start.

I thought he made seven starts due to an injury to one of the starters. I tried to look up his starts on a few sites but couldn't find anything. Where did you discover that he only made one start?

[AbeBeta]

I thought he made seven starts due to an injury to one of the starters. I tried to look up his starts on a few sites but couldn't find anything. Where did you discover that he only made one start?

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/303025
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/303025
http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=6150&Submit=Go
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/6150/

GS = Games Started

[neosapien23]

Thanks. He might be cheap then. Back to the original question. Would a team trade their 1 pick this year for Greg Ellis and a number 1 pick next year? And if they would, would you guys take that trade?