Agree or disagree: The OL didn't look all that bad until Flozell was hurt

[TruBlueCowboy]

With all this talk about a new center, and some young bucks to replace Rivera and Allen, would it be correct to say that the Cowboys offensive line really wasn't all that bad until Flozell went out? Was it KC-style dominating? No. But it gave Bledsoe a lot of time and he was picking some defenses apart for the first few weeks. Julius was even getting close to 100 yards a few times before his injury, and if memory serves, he did pass 100 yards in one of those early games if not for some penalties. Do you think Flozell's injury basically caused a cataclysm with Larry, Rob on the other side, which led to Marco, etc...., or do you think teams were bound to find out our weaknesses on the line before the season was over, Flozell or no Flozell? And maybe with guys like Rivera, Petitti or Allen, fatigue set in early.

I'm not saying we shouldn't look for some back-ups for our older guards or Al Johnson. Nor that we shouldn't find someone who can handle his men better than Rob Petitti. But if those fellas stay healthy next year, especially Flozell the Hotel, will the Boys still be able to get by?

[burmafrd]

It was a combination: the O line did not run block too well anyway early on; and that got worse. I think Pettiti got beaten up and was very ineffective late in the season; Rivera did not seem to play up to his potential for whatever reason; and Johnson started getting pushed around. It is true, I think, that opposing teams targeted our weak areas very well. I also question the quality of our coaching.

[silver]

we need a solid RT and move both Petitti and Tucker over to guard where their lack of foot speed is less evident. Having Flo back will be great, I just hope he's the same guy and not some Erik-Williams-post-accident-type shadow of himself.

[Manster68]

Believe it or not, the only area on the line Dallas might upgrade by bringing somebody in is center.

I DO see Parcells sticking with Petitti and Colombo with Flozell coming back.

Rivera will get that back healed by training camp.

Allen will find a way to stay with the team.

But at center, Johnson is too weak and Gurode is too dumb.

[fortdick]

Absolutely agree! When Flo went down, it was impossible to help the rookie at RT and the experienced, although incompetent, Tucker on the left as well. Rivera has to get some benifit of the doubt due to the injury.

Looking at Tucker v. Pettiti, Tucker gave up 12.5 sacks last year, while Rob gave up 13.5. The only difference is Rob played 16 games while Tucker played 10. I would take Rob any day of the week!

We need to start looking ahrd at guard. LA is about done, and Rivera may not come back at all-pro form. I think we are better at tackle than either guard or center.

[BrAinPaiNt]

The offense produced but we have to be fair and so the O-line itself was not that great before the Flo Injury.

When you have to constantly put TE to help out one side it weakens your ability to do things...that was later shown to be the other equation after flo went down because they had to try and alternate playing on both sides to help the OT.

Sure it was much better when flo was in, but still that right side was a weakness even before flo went down, it just got worse overall when he did.

[speedkilz88]

The pass protection when Flo was still healthy was excellent. They were able to help Petitti out on the other side with rbs and tes. It was just to difficult to help two young tackles after he was out and then Petitti hurt his ankle which made him even worse.

The running was bad from start to finish though. (With the Carolina game the lone exception, where did that come from?)

Erik Williams had his leg screwed up in a bad car accident, so there isn't any reason to think Flo will have any of the difficulties Erik did.

[neosapien23]

The pass protection was solid because we were always in a max protect. The run blocking was horrible before Flo ever went down. We need some talented youthful linemen. I really hope the Cowboys draft a tackle in the first as long as they are not reaching. Jon Scott is the person that I hope slides to us. If Guilles is there in our 2nd pick, I wouldn't mind Dallas taking him either.

[Paniolo22]

It was OK before Flo left, and was TERRIBLE :eek: after he left. Period.

[windward]

Our pass protection was pretty solid thefirst five weeks of the season. Check out the first Eagles game. Drew was barely touched. A healthy Flozell and an upgrade at center will vastly improve our line next year. I think Petiti will develop more next year

[Chocolate Lab]

I think if it looked adequate even before Flo got hurt, it's only because we've looked at truly awful O lines for the last five or six years now.

[poke]

i thought our O-line looked pretty good until Flo got hurt.
who knows if it would have gotten better as the year went on
if he stayed healthy but I for one feel like it would have.

[kiheikiwi]

Smoke and mirrors, thats what we had before Flo went down - then the mirror got smashed!

[acheman]

DISAGREE! I have started watching each game from this season again (only started the MNF game vs Washington). Against the Chargers we had false starts, fumbled snaps, Rivera was shoved back into Bledsoe's face, and we replaced Johnson with Gurode. Against the Skins we had those false starts and holding calls. All-in-all we looked befuddled at times on the o-line, and we were all talking about what was wrong with Julius (even before his injury) because he could not crack a 100 yards. That all adds up to poor offensive line play. Plus there were discussions at the time if we might even be better off wihtout "false-start Flo" in the line-up.

[sago1]

Our OL was barely adequate when Adams went down. We were lulled into thinking it wasn't too bad cause Bledsoe got enough protection to keep our passing game in high gear; our defense also played better then we could have expected with all the rookies and the new 3-4 scheme. But our running game sucked & if you are a one-dimensiontial team in the NFL, you aren't going to the playoffs. Losing Adams highlighted how poor our OL really was.

[DragonCowboy]

Before Flo

Pass Protection: Pop in a tape of the first Philly game
Run Protection: Pop in a tape of any game except the Carolina game

Pass Protection was great, but Run Protection atrocious...

[ABQCOWBOY]

The offense produced but we have to be fair and so the O-line itself was not that great before the Flo Injury.

When you have to constantly put TE to help out one side it weakens your ability to do things...that was later shown to be the other equation after flo went down because they had to try and alternate playing on both sides to help the OT.

Sure it was much better when flo was in, but still that right side was a weakness even before flo went down, it just got worse overall when he did.

This is an honest statement IMO. Going into the season, RT was scary. Basically, we got what we asked for. I would also say that while Flo was obviously much better then Tucker, he was still getting beat by speed rushes and jumping off sides to regularly.

[trueblue1687]

As some described it: average, I definately don't think it was adequate. Therre was only 2 100 yard games all season. Pretty telling whather anyone is hurt or whatever. Bottom line is that they couldn't get the job done. Injuries certainly had an effect, but all in all there was just alot of poor play from everyone. I've been pretty critical of Allen who has been a fantastic player up until about 2 or 3 years ago, then his drop-off has been pretty sharp. When Adams went down, it forced Tucker into the spotlight and Petitie whom I don't think was ever really considered a starter when drafted. I like the kids heart, and I know his Dad posts here (by all the butt kissing some of you guys do:laugh2: ), but there is a reason that he was passed so many times on draft day. I realize that there are surprises in late rounds, so hold off on the Larry Allen, Eric Williams replies...I'm aware of that. I just don't think Rob will be of that calibre. Rivera IS better than he showed this year...I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for another season and hope Petitie proves me wrong. Things will be better w/ a RT upgrade and a center if there's one available. Oh, and better start looking for another guard...I suspect someone will pay Gurode (@ guard) and he will turn out to be pretty good.)

[Mike 1967]

My opinion is.......

Yes and No

The line did a decent job of pass protection before Flozell went down. But the run blocking was below average even with Flozell in the lineup.

[big dog cowboy]

Smoke and mirrors, thats what we had before Flo went down - then the mirror got smashed!
Painfully true.

[iceberg]

With all this talk about a new center, and some young bucks to replace Rivera and Allen, would it be correct to say that the Cowboys offensive line really wasn't all that bad until Flozell went out? Was it KC-style dominating? No. But it gave Bledsoe a lot of time and he was picking some defenses apart for the first few weeks. Julius was even getting close to 100 yards a few times before his injury, and if memory serves, he did pass 100 yards in one of those early games if not for some penalties. Do you think Flozell's injury basically caused a cataclysm with Larry, Rob on the other side, which led to Marco, etc...., or do you think teams were bound to find out our weaknesses on the line before the season was over, Flozell or no Flozell? And maybe with guys like Rivera, Petitti or Allen, fatigue set in early.

I'm not saying we shouldn't look for some back-ups for our older guards or Al Johnson. Nor that we shouldn't find someone who can handle his men better than Rob Petitti. But if those fellas stay healthy next year, especially Flozell the Hotel, will the Boys still be able to get by?

5 years ago we hated flo and he was our "weakest link".

did he get that good or did the rest get that bad?

make 'em all 2nd string and spend our FA $ on a new line of good mix and rep. we don't win here, we don't win anywhere.

[Zaxor]

Before Flo

Pass Protection: Pop in a tape of the first Philly game
Run Protection: Pop in a tape of any game except the Carolina game

Pass Protection was great, but Run Protection atrocious...

Crap just absolute Crap

in the first 4 games alone we gave up something like 10 sacks...had numerous QB pressures...many Ints and Forced Fumbles...

this idea that Flo has suddenly become this great and all powerful LT is laughable...

[kingwhicker]

It was mediocre, but servicable.

[garyv]

Flozell was definitely missed however one player going down should not cause your entire Offensive Line to decline. What this proves is there are other problems such as skill and depth. Dallas must improve the Offensive Line but quit making bad decisions like signing Rivera instead of Walle. When you are going to fork over the monies to sign someone not only look at talent but look at their age.

[Doomsday101]

Flozell was definitely missed however one player going down should not cause your entire Offensive Line to decline. What this proves is there are other problems such as skill and depth. Dallas must improve the Offensive Line but quit making bad decisions like signing Rivera instead of Walle. When you are going to fork over the monies to sign someone not only look at talent but look at their age.

Your right it shouldn't but the fact was we were going into the season trying to protect a rookie on the other side once Flo went down now we were having to protect 2 tackles. Petitti I have no problem cutting him some slack playing offensive tackle as a rookie is no easy task when going up aginst some of the best pass rushers in the NFL. Tucker on the other hand as a 3rd year player I expected a lot more from him. If we cut Tucker tomorrow I would have no problem with that at all. I don't think Flo is mr all pro but he was doing a decent job before going down.

[BigDFan5]

Crap just absolute Crap

in the first 4 games alone we gave up something like 10 sacks...had numerous QB pressures...many Ints and Forced Fumbles...

this idea that Flo has suddenly become this great and all powerful LT is laughable...





We had given up 7 sacks

3 INTs

and a couple fumbled snaps

Now how was this protection the last 4 games?

Nobody said Flo was great and all powerful but he is a very good LT who was missed vwery much when he went down

[Sasquatch]

The offensive line has been a weakness for the past several years, and it never fails to amaze me that the media cites it as a team strength year after year in the preseaon. If the offensive line is one injury away from falling completely apart then it's high time to upgrade, whether it's one key position or several.

[HoustonSucks]

Certainly we were better with Flo in the lineup. But I also believe that half way through a season, other teams will "figure you out", so to speak. It is the responsibility of the offensive game-planners to adjust. Or you would hope you are so good at execution, it doesn't matter if the opposition "knows what you're going to do" because you'll do it anyway. Niether scenario was the case.

[Doomsday101]

The offensive line has been a weakness for the past several years, and it never fails to amaze me that the media sites it as a team strength year after year in the preseaon. If the offensive line is one injury away from falling completely falling apart then it's high time to upgrade, whether it's one key position or several.

I agree and I think it has it has to be addressed in both the draft and FA.

[Yakuza Rich]

The O-Line was adequate when Flozell was playing. Definitely not where I wanted it to be, and they weren't very good at running blocking, but the pass protection was better.

I'm doing the stat analysis right now and the one thing I noticed is that despite averaging a rather high yards per attempt and yards per completion rates, Bledsoe seemed to get sacked rather quickly. Compared to the other NFC East teams, the yards loss per sack for Dallas was much lower.

While that may sound *good* because you're essentially losing less yards, it's actually an indicator that there's a jailbreak on the O-Line.

When Flozell was in the game, they didn't give up nearly as many sacks per passing attempt or even sacks per game.

That being said, I don't want an "adequate" O-Line, I want a "very good" or "excellent" O-Line.

Rich.........

[Sasquatch]

That being said, I don't want an "adequate" O-Line, I want a "very good" or "excellent" O-Line.

Rich.........

I'd settle for consistent and reliable, and I don't mean consistently or reliably poor.

[dfense]

Move Pettiti to guard? He's an almost last round rookie. What did you expect his first year? Give the guy a break, he made some all rookie teams.

Hopefully, Flozell is alright and Al Johnson makes progress. Johnson had surgery on his knee at midseason and didn't miss a game. I think that really hurt his play. But Parcells didn't trust Gurode enough. What they need is depth.

[Jay9508]

With all this talk about a new center, and some young bucks to replace Rivera and Allen, would it be correct to say that the Cowboys offensive line really wasn't all that bad until Flozell went out? Was it KC-style dominating? No. But it gave Bledsoe a lot of time and he was picking some defenses apart for the first few weeks. Julius was even getting close to 100 yards a few times before his injury, and if memory serves, he did pass 100 yards in one of those early games if not for some penalties. Do you think Flozell's injury basically caused a cataclysm with Larry, Rob on the other side, which led to Marco, etc...., or do you think teams were bound to find out our weaknesses on the line before the season was over, Flozell or no Flozell? And maybe with guys like Rivera, Petitti or Allen, fatigue set in early.

I'm not saying we shouldn't look for some back-ups for our older guards or Al Johnson. Nor that we shouldn't find someone who can handle his men better than Rob Petitti. But if those fellas stay healthy next year, especially Flozell the Hotel, will the Boys still be able to get by?i agree, but the line could be better

[goshan]

Disagree.
It was below average.
Run blocking was bad, Pass Protection was ok.

[baj1dallas]

Do you think Flozell's injury basically caused a cataclysm with Larry, Rob on the other side, which led to Marco, etc...., or do you think teams were bound to find out our weaknesses on the line before the season was over, Flozell or no Flozell? And maybe with guys like Rivera, Petitti or Allen, fatigue set in early.

But if those fellas stay healthy next year, especially Flozell the Hotel, will the Boys still be able to get by?


I think Flozell's and Petiti's injuries are the main reasons the line was so bad. Johnson did end up getting pushed around quite a bit, it seems like teams figured out how to handle him or something.

With a healthy Flozell and a healthy and better prepared Petiti I think the tackle position will be much stronger. I'm not convinced that you'll find a rookie past the top couple tackles in the draft who could come in next year and outperform Petiti. Likewise I don't see any centers in the draft who look like they could necessarily do a better job than Johnson.

So I think it would be better to use draft picks on depth and competition rather than banking on a significant improvement from the draft.

[Bledsoe4MVP]

With all this talk about a new center, and some young bucks to replace Rivera and Allen, would it be correct to say that the Cowboys offensive line really wasn't all that bad until Flozell went out? Was it KC-style dominating? No. But it gave Bledsoe a lot of time and he was picking some defenses apart for the first few weeks. Julius was even getting close to 100 yards a few times before his injury, and if memory serves, he did pass 100 yards in one of those early games if not for some penalties. Do you think Flozell's injury basically caused a cataclysm with Larry, Rob on the other side, which led to Marco, etc...., or do you think teams were bound to find out our weaknesses on the line before the season was over, Flozell or no Flozell? And maybe with guys like Rivera, Petitti or Allen, fatigue set in early.

I'm not saying we shouldn't look for some back-ups for our older guards or Al Johnson. Nor that we shouldn't find someone who can handle his men better than Rob Petitti. But if those fellas stay healthy next year, especially Flozell the Hotel, will the Boys still be able to get by?

I thought the offensive line was pretty solid until Flozell went down for the count. Then disaster struck....

Bottom line this team needs to address the oline in the offseason. We can't assume that Larry Allen and Marco Rivera will still be a dominant force at their ages. Also no telling what Flozell will give this unit coming of his injury.

The jury is still out on Petitti, but i wouldn't mind seeing some competition at the RT position.

Also we need a consisent center, this rotational thing just doesn't cut it. I would kill to see Lecharles Bentley in a Dallas uniform next year. Probably ain't going to happen though.:cool:

[Billy Bullocks]

we need a solid RT and move both Petitti and Tucker over to guard where their lack of foot speed is less evident. Having Flo back will be great, I just hope he's the same guy and not some Erik-Williams-post-accident-type shadow of himself.

Pettiti pulling? HAHA.

Tucker is athletic, but just not in the way you have to be to play Tackle.

Guards have to be quicker since they do alot of pulling. I just don't see Pettiti getting out there quick enough to make the play. As a LB your job is to read the guards. They will tell you where the play is going. So if I see Pettiti at guard, pulling to the right, I can pretty much deduct it's going there...and I know one thing for sure, he won't beat any LB's out there, and that gives them a free shot at the RB.

[Ashwynn]

I agree

[neosapien23]

Pettiti pulling? HAHA.

Tucker is athletic, but just not in the way you have to be to play Tackle.

Guards have to be quicker since they do alot of pulling. I just don't see Pettiti getting out there quick enough to make the play. As a LB your job is to read the guards. They will tell you where the play is going. So if I see Pettiti at guard, pulling to the right, I can pretty much deduct it's going there...and I know one thing for sure, he won't beat any LB's out there, and that gives them a free shot at the RB.

Well thats a good assessment, but to be fair our current guards have had trouble pulling as well. Rivera has looked absolutely horrible on the screen pass this year. Allen will look dominant at times, but then he will whiff badly on pulling plays as well.

[Senny]

Agree...i didnt notice we had a bad OLINE...unitl Flozell got hurt...then it was like ok, this is disgraceful.

[lspain1]

Our O-Line did have problems before Flozell went down. As many have said here, the run blocking was below average. Our line seemed to lack athleticism across the board which limited our running game. Im not sure what everyone means by the term athleticism, but my meaning is that athletic big guys can move quickly to the outside and make blocks in space. Our guys couldn't make good run blocks straight ahead. A serious lack of athleticism to me.

O-Lines benefit greatly by good teamwork and each guy knowing how the other is going to react against a particular 'look' on the defense. Our guys did OK before Flo went down but looked really bad afterward. I'm hoping Rivera and Petitti get better in the off-season but I can't see LA, Gurode, and Johnson (and let's not forget Tucker) making any improvement. That means significant change is needed.

That's how I see it. We need one or two adds in FA and one or two adds in the draft. If we can't get top level talent in the FA period, then the draft picks must be on the first day.

[Zaxor]

We had given up 7 sacks

3 INTs

and a couple fumbled snaps

Now how was this protection the last 4 games?

Nobody said Flo was great and all powerful but he is a very good LT who was missed vwery much when he went down

WRONG

we gave up 4 sacks week 1
2 sack week 3
4 sack week 4

thats 4+4+2=10