FA LB to consider...

[capn22]

I don't post too much on here -- I'm really mostly interested in scoop and real inside news -- and the personal interactions or sightings stories are always good. But at this time of the year, when we're talking about FA and the draft, I'll throw my hat into the ring - or something like that.

In terms of what we need in the offseason, LB is on that list. Do we compete for the top guy on the market or do we pick up a cheaper alternative? I think a guy that we should (and will IMO) look at is SD OLB Ben Leber. He lost his job to Merriman this year largely because of an injury (to begin with) and then finally ended up on IR. Here is a guy with 3-4 experience, not really old and could make a nice addition to our D -- could come in and likely start immediately opposite of Ware. What would that mean for Burnett? Maybe a shift inside to play next to James? In terms of adding talent and experience at a resonable price, this guy fits the bill. Feel free to post other comparable alternatives. Keep in mind he won't be the best available guy -- I'd prefer Witherspoon or Ayodele to him -- but they'll cost more. Fire away!

capn22

[BigDFan5]

:welcome: to CowboysZone

[big dog cowboy]

:welcome: to the board. Interesting subject. I suspect they move Burnett inside and get a FA outside. Three weeks from Friday FA begins.

[Hiero]

I think Burnett will move inside this next year, and we draft another demarcus ware type in the draft.

[Hostile]

I don't post too much on here -- I'm really mostly interested in scoop and real inside news -- and the personal interactions or sightings stories are always good. But at this time of the year, when we're talking about FA and the draft, I'll throw my hat into the ring - or something like that.

In terms of what we need in the offseason, LB is on that list. Do we compete for the top guy on the market or do we pick up a cheaper alternative? I think a guy that we should (and will IMO) look at is SD OLB Ben Leber. He lost his job to Merriman this year largely because of an injury (to begin with) and then finally ended up on IR. Here is a guy with 3-4 experience, not really old and could make a nice addition to our D -- could come in and likely start immediately opposite of Ware. What would that mean for Burnett? Maybe a shift inside to play next to James? In terms of adding talent and experience at a resonable price, this guy fits the bill. Feel free to post other comparable alternatives. Keep in mind he won't be the best available guy -- I'd prefer Witherspoon or Ayodele to him -- but they'll cost more. Fire away!

capn22You oughta be :whip: ed. Not for the post, but for taking so long to join the discussions.

:grin:

Just kidding...I think.

I think Burnett will be moved inside with James as a starter and Fowler and possibly Shanle will be the Inside backups. I really think our primary focus in the Draft will be SOLB.

:welcome:

[Erik_H]

I think Burnett will move inside this next year, and we draft another demarcus ware type in the draft.

While I agree that Burnett wil go inside, I don't see how we draft an Ware type this year.

In the 3-4 defense the "other" OLB has different resposibilites than the one Ware holds.

We're not looking for a speed rusher here. We need a guy who's good in coverage and against the run. That's how the 3-4 works.

[Hostile]

While I agree that Burnett wil go inside, I don't see how we draft an Ware type this year.

In the 3-4 defense the "other" OLB has different resposibilites than the one Ware holds.

We're not looking for a speed rusher here. We need a guy who's good in coverage and against the run. That's how the 3-4 works.Exactly right.

[Dough Boy]

Exactly right.

Only if the OLB flip sides. If they don't flip, both OLB have to be equally adept at rushing the QB, run support and dropping into coverage.

If what you are saying is true, where is the element of surprise. If Offenses always knew Ware was rushing and the other guy was dropping, that would be too easy to scheme against.

[Dough Boy]

While I agree that Burnett wil go inside, I don't see how we draft an Ware type this year.

In the 3-4 defense the "other" OLB has different resposibilites than the one Ware holds.

We're not looking for a speed rusher here. We need a guy who's good in coverage and against the run. That's how the 3-4 works.

Info that I ran across:

3-4 OLBs are the playmakers of the D. They get the glory of picking up sacks on the QB. They must have strong pass rush skills and be able to drop into coverage. If the 3-4 OLBs are unable to consistently apply pressure on the QB, the D is very vulnerable in the passing game. They tend to weigh around 245-270, and many are former 4-3 DE/OLB "tweeners". Many 4-3 DEs are not suited to playing 3-4 OLB because they lack the ability to play in space. The more agile 4-3 RDEs, such as the Jets' John Abraham (6-4 256), are able to play both 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB. Many 4-3 OLBs are not suited to playing 3-4 OLB because they lack the pass rush skills and the ability to go toe-to-toe with an OT. Examples of solid 3-4 OLBs are the Patriots' Willie McGinest (6-5 270) and the Steelers' Joey Porter (6-2 248)

[big dog cowboy]

where is the element of surprise.
That is 99% of the problem. Zimmer the village idiot is still calling the shots. :mad:

[baj1dallas]

I would like to see one FA LB with 3-4 experience added, Leber would probably work.

[MichaelWinicki]

I expect us to draft OLB Carpenter in round 1.

[Dough Boy]

That is 99% of the problem. Zimmer the village idiot is still calling the shots. :mad:

Then we should not run the 3-4, because that's a large part of running it to its max potential.

Another tid bit I found:

What are the advantages of the 3-4 defense
The offense does not know which of the 2 OLBs is going to rush the QB, as both of the OLBs are in a 2-point stance. This creates the following advantages:

It's harder for the offensive linemen to correctly determine their blocking assignments before the snap and execute
It puts more mental pressure on the QB. E.g. the Patriots did a masterful job in disguising their D against 2004 MVP Peyton Manning in the 2005 playoffs. Manning came unglued mentally, and his frustration seemed to affect his performance

[Dough Boy]

I expect us to draft OLB Carpenter in round 1.
I think Carpenter is a good fit. He can rush th QB and drop into coverage. My only neg with him is that most scouts are reporting that he is not as atheltic as his measurables indicate. His COD is not that of some of the other top LB.

I think Kamerion Wimbley could be a sleeper in the 2nd round for us if we go with a FS or Tackle in the 1st.

[CrazyCowboy]

Nice 1st post.....welcome!

[Dough Boy]

I would like to see one FA LB with 3-4 experience added, Leber would probably work.
Not to be a downer on Leber, but he just lost his starting job in SD. I think Leber is very comparable to Fujita. If you want to upgrade the position, you don't sign Leber.

[big dog cowboy]

I expect us to draft OLB Carpenter in round 1.
Just asking.....if he is the target, do we try to trade down and get him?

[Little Jr]

That is 99% of the problem. Zimmer the village idiot is still calling the shots. :mad:


Ok. Can someone please explain this to me.


Does anyone really think that Zimmer actually controls the D with BP being the head coach and Zim not having no expeience with the 3-4? Does anyone really think if Zimmer has complete control over the D, that BP would keep him around if he thought he wasnt doing a good job?


My point is this. I really think we should be more agressive on D. But I dont put the blame on Zim. I think BP has most of the control on D. If he doesnt then it's pretty clear he doesnt have a problem with Zim play calling or he wouldnt still be D Corrd.

[Dough Boy]

I would love for us to pick up Kalimba Edwards. He is 6-5 265lb DE for the Lions. He played OLB and DE for S.Carolina. He is not as explosive as Ware, but he will be a better run defender. The Lions are rumored to turn him into a OLB in the 4-3 if they resign him.

In the 4-3 SLB role, I think some of his best traits are lost. He has put together a couple of 7 sacks seasons as a nickle pass rusher. I think this guy could be similar to McGinnest in that he is a larger 3-4 OLB, with enough speed to cover. I recall him playing at SC and he has good AA, COD skills and good speed. Again, he is not Ware, put he can get to the QB.

[MichaelWinicki]

I think Carpenter is a good fit. He can rush th QB and drop into coverage. My only neg with him is that most scouts are reporting that he is not as atheltic as his measurables indicate. His COD is not that of some of the other top LB.

I think Kamerion Wimbley could be a sleeper in the 2nd round for us if we go with a FS or Tackle in the 1st.


That's a valid point.

As long as we come out with a T, FS and some kind of LB out of our first 3 picks and I'll be pretty happy.

[Dough Boy]

That's a valid point.

As long as we come out with a T, FS and some kind of LB out of our first 3 picks and I'll be pretty happy.

Mike,
Our O-Line was very poorous last year. Its mandatory that we upgrade the line.

This draft has a ton of quality T. I'm OK with Flo at LT. He does get beat sometimes, but he does not require help. You know what you are getting with him. That is something to be said about going with a known quanity.

I think if we can get Jon Scott, M. McNiel or W. Justice in the 1st. Kamerion Wimbley, Manny Lawson or Carpenter in the 2nd and Jason Allen in the 3rd, I would be very happy.

Jason Allen worked at Jason Wittens football camp last year, so we should be able to glen some insider info him and his hip surgery.


Sidebar (what do you think of Marc Colombo before the injuries. I didn't follow him too much while he was with the Bears. Was he ever a good player?)

[junk]

A couple of things I don't like about Leber. He spent a bulk of last season hurt and SD was looking for an upgrade.

If Fujita bolts, I'd like Leber as depth or as a guy to platoon with a rookie until the rookie takes over.

In other words, I see Fujita and Leber as about the same guy. Decent depth, but a starter you'd always be trying to replace.

[big dog cowboy]

Ok. Can someone please explain this to me.

Does anyone really think that Zimmer actually controls the D with BP being the head coach and Zim not having no expeience with the 3-4? Does anyone really think if Zimmer has complete control over the D, that BP would keep him around if he thought he wasnt doing a good job?

My point is this. I really think we should be more agressive on D. But I dont put the blame on Zim. I think BP has most of the control on D. If he doesnt then it's pretty clear he doesnt have a problem with Zim play calling or he wouldnt still be D Corrd.
Sorry to hi-jack this thread.

But I don't know what Parcells saw in Zimmer to make him retain the guy but I have disliked Zimmer since he was the DB coach. Our DBs always played 10-15 yards off the receivers and let them have anything they wanted underneath.

That same philosphy has carried over to his role as the DC. He plays "not to lose", "bend but don't break", "just don't let anything bad happen". The problem is that bad things have and will continue to happen because you cannot give a QB all day to throw. Eventually a receiver will get open no matter how good your coverage guys are or teams will figure out how to exploit any weakness in your coverage, as we saw from the Redskins.

IMO it was a HUGE mistake to retain Zimmer when he had the chance to go to Nebraska. At that same time, both Wade Philips and Gregg Williams were available and we could have signed one of them to be the DC for us. Both guys have turned around very poor defenses in San Diego and Washington and made them into a couple of the best.

I know people get tired of hearimg me harp on this subject but the facts are plain. Zimmer's style of defense does not win games because it is designed to limit what the offense does rather than to dictate to it and put pressure on the offense to react to what we are doing. Great defenses create pressure and generate turnovers, that's not us. Not under Zimmer anyway.

With the talent we have now we should be terrorizing QBs every week and while we have gotten some sacks this year the pressure has been inconsistent and due to blitzing a lot of guys to get them.

When was the last time we saw one of our DLs stunt or do anything to confuse the OL? Let's face it folks, Zimmer is NOT an NFL caliber DC and never has been. He was promoted by Campo because he was Campo's protege. What boggles my mind is why Parcells retained the guy since he has always played a completely different style of defense.

In the past, Parcells' defenses were the kind that always put pressure on the QB to force them to make mistakes and turnovers. I just don't understand what Bill sees in Zimmer.

[Little Jr]

Sorry to hi-jack this thread.

But I don't know what Parcells saw in Zimmer to make him retain the guy but I have disliked Zimmer since he was the DB coach. Our DBs always played 10-15 yards off the receivers and let them have anything they wanted underneath.

That same philosphy has carried over to his role as the DC. He plays "not to lose", "bend but don't break", "just don't let anything bad happen". The problem is that bad things have and will continue to happen because you cannot give a QB all day to throw. Eventually a receiver will get open no matter how good your coverage guys are or teams will figure out how to exploit any weakness in your coverage, as we saw from the Redskins.

IMO it was a HUGE mistake to retain Zimmer when he had the chance to go to Nebraska. At that same time, both Wade Philips and Gregg Williams were available and we could have signed one of them to be the DC for us. Both guys have turned around very poor defenses in San Diego and Washington and made them into a couple of the best.

I know people get tired of hearimg me harp on this subject but the facts are plain. Zimmer's style of defense does not win games because it is designed to limit what the offense does rather than to dictate to it and put pressure on the offense to react to what we are doing. Great defenses create pressure and generate turnovers, that's not us. Not under Zimmer anyway.

With the talent we have now we should be terrorizing QBs every week and while we have gotten some sacks this year the pressure has been inconsistent and due to blitzing a lot of guys to get them.

When was the last time we saw one of our DLs stunt or do anything to confuse the OL? Let's face it folks, Zimmer is NOT an NFL caliber DC and never has been. He was promoted by Campo because he was Campo's protege. What boggles my mind is why Parcells retained the guy since he has always played a completely different style of defense.

In the past, Parcells' defenses were the kind that always put pressure on the QB to force them to make mistakes and turnovers. I just don't understand what Bill sees in Zimmer.


I cant disagree with your points on D. My question is do you really think he's calling all the shots? I dont think he is. IF he is then BP should step in or fire him. I just dont see with BP ego that Zim has full control over the D. I feel like if there was something Zim wasnt doing, like blitzing and putting pressure on the QB BP would step in. Since they played the same conservative D all year that tells me that BP had no problem with the play calling and I put that on BP for not stepping in or for not getting rid of him.

[ghst187]

in attempts to try to bring the thread back to the original point and save it from the "hate Zimmer" trashcan that many threads here go....

Watch Leber in his game against us, he was an absolute beast.
He's a solid player, probably not a big upgrade over Fujita but could be solid depth. However, if we keep Fujita and plan to draft 2 LB's, I wouldn't see the point really, esp if one of those picks are in the first two rounds.
I do think that Carpenter is probably a good fit for our defense.
I must say I'm also very enticed by Lawson's athleticism though. I think having both he AND Ware going after the QB....would be serious havoc against a QB. Would also allow us to blitz one and drop the other without losing one iota of passrushing ability, hence good blitz disguise, hence 3-4 advantage. Not that Carpenter can't get after the QB, but Lawson just seems freaky like Ware as far as athleticism. I think Carpenter is the safer pick that you know what you get with him but Lawson could be another Ware or better and that is pretty intriguing....

[big dog cowboy]

I cant disagree with your points on D. My question is do you really think he's calling all the shots? I dont think he is. IF he is then BP should step in or fire him. I just dont see with BP ego that Zim has full control over the D. I feel like if there was something Zim wasnt doing, like blitzing and putting pressure on the QB BP would step in. Since they played the same conservative D all year that tells me that BP had no problem with the play calling and I put that on BP for not stepping in or for not getting rid of him.
I agree with all your points. But the D plays the same now as it did before BP got here. So who knows?

[FLcowboy]

You oughta be :whip: ed. Not for the post, but for taking so long to join the discussions.

:grin:

Just kidding...I think.

I think Burnett will be moved inside with James as a starter and Fowler and possibly Shanle will be the Inside backups. I really think our primary focus in the Draft will be SOLB.

:welcome:


I think Fowler may be a sleeper, and will awake during camp next year. Parcells gave him some kudos, and that ain't like Bill.

[Dough Boy]

I think having both he AND Ware going after the QB....would be serious havoc against a QB. Would also allow us to blitz one and drop the other without losing one iota of passrushing ability, hence good blitz disguise, hence 3-4 advantage.

I agree with you on this point. Blitz disguise is key. Over the past 5 years, I think our blitzes have lacked imagination. The one thing about Pittsburg and New England, they disguise the blitz very well... I would be happy with Manny, Carpenter or Kamerion Wimbley...

[Clove]

We need 2 guys that can get to the QB, period. I don't care if we have 4 Ware's on the team, when you have talent like that, you play them.

We need to move Burnett inside, and draft Carpenter or Lawson or 7 other great tweeners in the draft. Carpenter would be the only real OLB I would choose, but that's becaue he's a great passrusher as well.

As for Leber, he's nothing special even before he was injured. His career stats aren't overly impressive.

[Clove]

I would love for us to pick up Kalimba Edwards. He is 6-5 265lb DE for the Lions. He played OLB and DE for S.Carolina. He is not as explosive as Ware, but he will be a better run defender. The Lions are rumored to turn him into a OLB in the 4-3 if they resign him.

In the 4-3 SLB role, I think some of his best traits are lost. He has put together a couple of 7 sacks seasons as a nickle pass rusher. I think this guy could be similar to McGinnest in that he is a larger 3-4 OLB, with enough speed to cover. I recall him playing at SC and he has good AA, COD skills and good speed. Again, he is not Ware, put he can get to the QB.I like him as well. Excellent call.

[Bob Sacamano]

We're not looking for a speed rusher here.

you aren't, but the Cowboys are

Kamerion WImbley, Mark Anderson, and Manny Lawson met Cowboy scouts at the Senior Bowl

[CM Duck]

I expect us to draft OLB Carpenter in round 1.


DING! DING! DING! DING!

we've got a winnah!!!!!

I believe we trade down in the first about 4, maybe 6, spots and draft him. I think because of his ankle injury he may slip to the end of the 1st. But, if we can not find a trade partner, I would not be surprised if Jerry anf Bill grab him at 18.