NCAA | Agent speaks about Young's Wonderlic score...*Reportedly-16*

[WoodysGirl]

Mon, 27 Feb 2006 05:54:58 -0800

John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle (http://www.kffl.com/link/140), reports Saturday, Feb. 25 a rumor that Texas QB Vince Young (http://www.kffl.com/player/13206/nfl) had scored a six on the Wonderlic test sent shock waves through the NFL Combine (http://www.kffl.com/link/183). Sunday, Feb. 26, the Combine said the test score of six that was being reported by some media outlets was false. Young took the test again and scored 16. According to Young's agent, Major Adams, the Sunday test was administered by Jeff Foster, executive director of National Scouting Combine.

"The combine officials assured us that score (six) was false and that the accurate score will be known when the combine results are given to each team," Adams said.

Wonderlic scores are supposed to be confidential and are never confirmed publicly by the NFL (http://www.kffl.com/team/77/nfl), because they are included in Combine results given to teams after the Combine, scores leak out. Prospects can take the Wonderlic tests as many times as they want. While Young's Wonderlic tests created a huge controversy, he was busy interviewing with different teams.

[boysfanindc]

So the 6 was false but he took the test again, what does that mean?

[Dale]

So the 6 was false but he took the test again, what does that mean?

That's the part I don't get. If there was confusion, why not simply state what the correct score was? Taking it again, to me, seems to inforce the possibility that that was actually his initial score.

[baj1dallas]

It means he proved he can at least read.

[jman]

So; they may actually take the highest score if the test is takn more than once.

[boysfanindc]

So; they may actually take the highest score if the test is takn more than once.

Maybe they added the 2 tests together?

[royhitshard]

Maybe they added the 2 tests together?
The most likely senerio!!:D

[cobra]

My understanding (based on the explanation on NFLDraftCountdown) is that the test somehow wasn't "scored properly" so they let Vince take it again and he got a 16.

The story is complete BS. Something fishy is going on. From I can tell, the reports that he got a 6 are accurate, but there appeared to be a consensus that the 6 score was not credible for some reason.

What I find absolutely hilarious about this story is the cover story.

"Oh no. Vince didn't get a 6. He isn't that dumb. When he took it the second time, he showed he wasn't that stupid. He got a 16."

A 16?

I guess that is better than a 6 and shows that you won't choke on your own tongue and drool. But 16? That's still borderline retarded.

The end game of this is clear: Vince Young is stupid.

[SupermanXx]

The end game of this is clear: Vince Young is stupid.

and? so was Forrest Gump but he still played well for Alabama

[NYCowboy22]

Tremendous athlete, but nobody had him pegged as an intelligent guy. All I had to do was hear one of his interviews to come to that conclusion.

[cobra]

and? so was Forrest Gump but he still played well for Alabama

Forrest Gump didn't have to know a playbook, read a defense, and call audibles. He was a kick returner and a wide reciever if I recall correctly.

That's what Vince will be doing.

But you got to admit it is slightly humorous to pose such a defense: "No, he isn't completely retarded, only partly retarded."

That's a funny defense, if you ask me.

[AbeBeta]

So; they may actually take the highest score if the test is takn more than once.

that would reflect a poor understanding of testing. if you take the same test twice, duh, you improve.

[VirusX]

It amazes me on how many people jump the gun and say OMG he scored low he is stupid! Have you seen some of the questions on those tests? If you dont watch the news and keep up with things outside of football you will miss quite a few questions.

I wouldnt put to much stock in a wonderlic score anyway. If I recall the highest wonderlic score was by a kicker. So that means he is a rocket scientist and should be an elite QB. Or it means he has a hell of a lot more free time to read a paper or watch the news then a QB who is studying film and working on his craft.

[SupermanXx]

Forrest Gump didn't have to know a playbook, read a defense, and call audibles. He was a kick returner and a wide reciever if I recall correctly.

That's what Vince will be doing.

But you got to admit it is slightly humorous to pose such a defense: "No, he isn't completely retarded, only partly retarded."

That's a funny defense, if you ask me.

I was completely joking when I said that

go to the store and grab a sense of humor off the shelf, man..

[boysfanindc]

I was completely joking when I said that

go to the store and grab a sense of humor off the shelf, man..

I wonder what Gump's forty time was?

[AbeBeta]

It amazes me on how many people jump the gun and say OMG he scored low he is stupid! Have you seen some of the questions on those tests? If you dont watch the news and keep up with things outside of football you will miss quite a few questions.


What? It isn't a test of knowledge.

[VirusX]

What? It isn't a test of knowledge.

It isnt an "IQ" test. Its IQ mixed with overall knowledge of events etc. So labeling someone stupid because of a bad test result is ignorant.

[boysfanindc]

It amazes me on how many people jump the gun and say OMG he scored low he is stupid! Have you seen some of the questions on those tests? If you dont watch the news and keep up with things outside of football you will miss quite a few questions.

I wouldnt put to much stock in a wonderlic score anyway. If I recall the highest wonderlic score was by a kicker. So that means he is a rocket scientist and should be an elite QB. Or it means he has a hell of a lot more free time to read a paper or watch the news then a QB who is studying film and working on his craft.

I thought the test dealt with how you logically solve problems. I do not believe it is a current events test.

Payton Manning said the questions are like - All men are fat, Jim is a man, is Jim fat?

It's logic not current events.

[Hostile]

So the 6 was false but he took the test again, what does that mean?You can take the test as many times as you want. It sounds like there was an error with his so they let him take it again immediately.

I personally don't think it matters one little bit. I don't care if he can tell me the smallest number in a mathematical sequence of numbers. I wanna know if he knows his reads. To me, the Wonderlic is worthless because it isn't about football.

[VirusX]

I thought the test dealt with how you logically solve problems. I do not believe it is a current events test.

Payton Manning said the questions are like - All men are fat, Jim is a man, is Jim fat?

It's logic not current events.

I believe it was last year they gave an example of some questions from the wonderlic and a couple were not logic questions. One I think was about a law/law firm's current situation. I could be wrong.

Maybe he just didnt eat his Wheaties :laugh1:

[VirusX]

You can take the test as many times as you want. It sounds like there was an error with his so they let him take it again immediately.

I personally don't think it matters one little bit. I don't care if he can tell me the smallest number in a mathematical sequence of numbers. I wanna know if he knows his reads. To me, the Wonderlic is worthless because it isn't about football.
:hammer:

[kingwhicker]

what do retake mean?

[Tobal]

http://www.macmirabile.com/Wonderlic/Wonderlic.htm

[boysfanindc]

You can take the test as many times as you want. It sounds like there was an error with his so they let him take it again immediately.

I personally don't think it matters one little bit. I don't care if he can tell me the smallest number in a mathematical sequence of numbers. I wanna know if he knows his reads. To me, the Wonderlic is worthless because it isn't about football.

I think it has some value if the test can reveal whether you have the capability to understand complex concepts and if you have the ability to then apply these concepts to what is in front of you.

Does the test reveal this? I have no idea, but I have to believe this is what they were aiming to accomplish.

I think a NFL offense or defense have some complicated concepts, especially as they relate to a QB. I think how fast you process what you see into what you are suppose to do from a QB's perspective is pretty important.

[Encore]

This was just on the screen for the HOTLIST.

No other mentions yet.

I'm not sure if this is a repost. If So, Please Delete.

[5Stars]

I believe it was last year they gave an example of some questions from the wonderlic and a couple were not logic questions. One I think was about a law/law firm's current situation. I could be wrong.

Maybe he just didnt eat his Wheaties :laugh1:

NO, you are wrong...that test has nothing to do about "current events", or what law firm is having a problem, blah, blah, blah! Where did you get that from?

It's a logic test, of sorts...to see how you process information presented to you...in other words, to see if you are dumb like VY!

[AbeBeta]

a 16 after taking the test a 2nd time under special conditions.

Lots of players would fair better under those conditions. His smarts are somewhere between a 6 and a 16. Most teams would evaluate either score as low for a QB.

[DrunkWithPower]

I think I saw it in another post but it was buried. The 16 wouldn't have been such a big deal but I saw in several articles they let him retake the test after scoring a 6 the first time. Since when does the NFL let prospective players take the test twice? Someone must have felt sorry for him...

[cobra]

That's good to hear. I was worried he might forget to breathe with that 6 score.

[AbeBeta]

You can take the test as many times as you want. It sounds like there was an error with his so they let him take it again immediately.


If there was an error with his test it would have been in the scoring. In that case you rescore the test, you don't give the guy a do-over.

[InmanRoshi]

Vince probably wishes he hired a real agent now.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Oh my gosh............ I guess he's going to be a WR after all.

[AbeBeta]

It isnt an "IQ" test. Its IQ mixed with overall knowledge of events etc. So labeling someone stupid because of a bad test result is ignorant.

It is a test of general intelligence it has nothing to do with knowledge. If that is what they wanted they'd give them an SAT.

[bbgun]

Sorry, but I only acknowledge the first score. You shouldn't have to take it twice.

[dmq]

Very impressive indeed. :rolleyes:

[AbeBeta]

Sorry, but I only acknowledge the first score. You shouldn't have to take it twice.

actually most prospects do take it twice. but Young did get special treatment.

[BigDFan5]

It amazes me on how many people jump the gun and say OMG he scored low he is stupid! Have you seen some of the questions on those tests? If you dont watch the news and keep up with things outside of football you will miss quite a few questions.

I wouldnt put to much stock in a wonderlic score anyway. If I recall the highest wonderlic score was by a kicker. So that means he is a rocket scientist and should be an elite QB. Or it means he has a hell of a lot more free time to read a paper or watch the news then a QB who is studying film and working on his craft.



There is nothing about current evens on a wonderlic test. So there is nothing in the newspaper or on the news that would help you on the test

[Chief]

Vince probably wishes he hired a real agent now.

Good point.

With so much at stake, he should have had several runs at that test before the combine, just to familarize himself with the style of questions.

If decision-making is important, then Vince flunked his first test by hiring a lousy agent and walking blindly into the combine.

[AbeBeta]

We all better be careful in discussing this issue. Yesterday the mods deleted a similar thread. I suspect they also banned someone.

But they are being very tight lipped about it.

I guess one of them gets annoyed if we suggest Young is stupid.

[WoodysGirl]

We all better be careful in discussing this issue. Yesterday the mods deleted a similar thread. I suspect they also banned someone.

But they are being very tight lipped about it.

I guess one of them gets annoyed if we suggest Young is stupid.Now you're just speculating... :rolleyes:

And you're wrong on both counts... :cool:

[baj1dallas]

my guess is that he didn't fill out the whole thing the first time for some reason.

[Little Jr]

So; they may actually take the highest score if the test is takn more than once.


Yes. Culpepper took it 3 times.

[AbeBeta]

If decision-making is important, then Vince flunked his first test by hiring a lousy agent and walking blindly into the combine.

Lots of ways to measure intelligence.

you can bet scouts are bribing folks at UT to get a hold of the kid's academic transcripts as we speak

[AbeBeta]

Now you're just speculating... :rolleyes:

And you're wrong on both counts... :cool:

Well it is tough for folks to know. Since the mods won't talk about it.

I for one would like a public explanation. Not counting on it though.

[poke]

all i need to know about the Wonderlic as a measure of QB's
is that Quincy had a 30 and Brett Favre had a 22......
as far as I am concerned its useless.
lets give Young a chance to see how good/bad he does
playing before we make our minds up.

[WoodysGirl]

Well it is tough for folks to know. Since the mods won't talk about it.

I for one would like a public explanation. Not counting on it though.You would be right... If it warranted a public explanation, then one would be given. However, this doesn't. And any future discussion about it should be handled via PM.

[AbeBeta]

all i need to know about the Wonderlic as a measure of QB's
is that Quincy had a 30 and Brett Favre had a 22......
as far as I am concerned its useless.
lets give Young a chance to see how good/bad he does
playing before we make our minds up.

wow. that's reasoning at its best. choosing the most extreme example and ignoring all other data.

try Jeff George at a 10 - ya think the Colts did the Wonderlic now?

[boysfanindc]

all i need to know about the Wonderlic as a measure of QB's
is that Quincy had a 30 and Brett Favre had a 22......
as far as I am concerned its useless.
lets give Young a chance to see how good/bad he does
playing before we make our minds up.

Unfortunately the people drafting him have to make up their minds before hand and this is one of the criteria they will use. It's part of the equation, especially for a QB.

[DanTanna]

So his COMBINED score is 22.

[AbeBeta]

You would be right... If it warranted a public explanation, then one would be given. However, this doesn't. And any future discussion about it should be handled via PM.

disagree. it is of interest to everyone who participated in the deleted thread.

but I see that there is not going to be a public explanation. and I'm not really interested in a private one.

[Encore]

Clayton -


Re-tested on Saturday
He was able to scramble and take the test for the second time.
NFL Owners will look at this to see how well to learn an offense
A 16 is fine.
Makes the top teams ask him more question regarding the test and asking
why he didn't get ready for it.
This will create more questions about him.
Believe that he'll take it one more time and do much better.

[WoodysGirl]

More on Vince and the Wonderlic ...


The bottom line is that Vince Young clearly wasn't prepared to take this test. Other agents have their clients take several sample Wonderlic tests before going to the combine.

Young's decision to surround himself with friends and family (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/colleges/texas/stories/021906dnspovincelede.27579f3.html)to be his agent and business manager will continue to be in question after showing up at the White House in jeans and after apparently bombing the Wonderlic.

Remember, agent Eugene Parker helped Cedric Benson go No. 4 overall in last year's draft - and Benson had so-called "character" issues. Young didn't have any character issues as of Jan. 4. But his decisions to go with complete novices to manage his career could end up costing him a bunch of money - for completely avoidable reasons. I'm sure it's not too late to give Eugene Parker a call.

Maybe to his detriment, Young appears as determined to prove his critics wrong about his decisions regarding an agent as he was determined to prove his Heisman Trophy critics wrong in the Rose Bowl.

Posted by Chip Brown (http://www.dallasnews.com/blogs/sportssay/emailbloggers.htm?contact=Chip) http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/standing/icons/email.gif (http://www.dallasnews.com/blogs/sportssay/emailbloggers.htm?contact=Chip) at 1:12 PM (http://sportssay.beloblog.com/archives/2006/02/more_on_vince_a.html) (E-mail this entry) (http://sportssay.beloblog.com/archives/2006/02/more_on_vince_a.html)

Vince and the Wonderlic


The rumors are running wild about Vince Young and his Wonderlic test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic)score at the NFL combine. Rumors that Young scored a 6 (out of 50) on the Wonderlic were confirmed by at least one newspaper (Miami Herald) before reports began to surface that the computation of Young's score may have been faulty. The Houston Chronicle is reporting that Young made a 16 on a re-take (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3687374.html).

The folks at ESPN.com are allowing you to compute your own Wonderlic (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=020228test).

Posted by Chip Brown (http://www.dallasnews.com/blogs/sportssay/emailbloggers.htm?contact=Chip) http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/standing/icons/email.gif (http://www.dallasnews.com/blogs/sportssay/emailbloggers.htm?contact=Chip) at 1:04 PM (http://sportssay.beloblog.com/archives/2006/02/vince_and_the_w.html) (E-mail this entry) (http://sportssay.beloblog.com/archives/2006/02/vince_and_the_w.html)

[BigDFan5]

We all better be careful in discussing this issue. Yesterday the mods deleted a similar thread. I suspect they also banned someone.

But they are being very tight lipped about it.

I guess one of them gets annoyed if we suggest Young is stupid.

It was me, I was banned for saying Darren Woodson was ugly :(

[boysfanindc]

It was me, I was banned for saying Darren Woodson was ugly :(

I think that is OK as long as you don't say Woodson likes guys!

[The30YardSlant]

http://x402.putfile.com/2/5601463588.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/iamjacksfark/petardedvince.gif

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/iamjacksfark/shortbusvince.gif

[WoodysGirl]

I think that is OK as long as you don't say Woodson likes guys!I think I'll fast track that rule to Reality now... :D

[The30YardSlant]

BTW, ESPN has come out and saud that Vince did make a 16, but it was the second time he took the test, and that he will take it a third.

[theogt]

16 or 6? Is there much difference? Think about this: Considering the number of 50/50 and multiple choice questions on the practice exam provided by ESPN, someone *should* be able to score in the 12-16 range simply by guessing. So...Young's score, even if its a 16, isn't much more impressive than a 2 year old's.

As for the "argument" that the test doesn't mean anything because it doesn't test "football knowledge" (or whatever term was used), logic is logic and raw intelligence is raw intelligence. There's no distinction between "football intelligence" and other forms of intelligence. They give the test for a reason.

[AbeBeta]

16 or 6? Is there much difference? Think about this: Considering the number of 50/50 and multiple choice questions on the practice exam provided by ESPN, someone *should* be able to score in the 12-16 range simply by guessing. So...Young's score, even if its a 16, isn't much more impressive than a 2 year old's.


I think most of the items have 4 or 5 options -- if you assume an average of 4 options per item, getting 16 right would be a little strange if someone just guessed (a 6% probability)

But if someone were coached to spend the first 10 minutes answering what they could then filling in the rest randomly ..... not that unlikely.

Let's say Vince completed 10 items the first time he took the test and got 6 right (it is very common on timed tests that many answers are left blank). He repeated that performance the 2nd time he took the test. But this time, instead of leaving the rest of the items blank, he filled in an answer for all 40 additional items. Guessing he'd get about 1 in 4 correct -- or ..... 10 more points.

[JIGGYFLY]

16 or 6? Is there much difference? Think about this: Considering the number of 50/50 and multiple choice questions on the practice exam provided by ESPN, someone *should* be able to score in the 12-16 range simply by guessing. So...Young's score, even if its a 16, isn't much more impressive than a 2 year old's.

As for the "argument" that the test doesn't mean anything because it doesn't test "football knowledge" (or whatever term was used), logic is logic and raw intelligence is raw intelligence. There's no distinction between "football intelligence" and other forms of intelligence. They give the test for a reason.
With that said VY will be a very rich man come draft time and will be a top 5 pick and will be able to prove if he is a "real nfl qb" or not. Question why do you care so much if he made a 6 or not will it affect you putting food on the table?

You my friend need a little Haterade.

[boysfanindc]

I think most of the items have 4 or 5 options -- if you assume an average of 4 options per item, getting 16 right would be a little strange if someone just guessed (a 6% probability)

But if someone were coached to spend the first 10 minutes answering what they could then filling in the rest randomly ..... not that unlikely.

Let's say Vince completed 10 items the first time he took the test and got 6 right (it is very common on timed tests that many answers are left blank). He repeated that performance the 2nd time he took the test. But this time, instead of leaving the rest of the items blank, he filled in an answer for all 40 additional items. Guessing he'd get about 1 in 4 correct -- or ..... 10 more points.

Well if he only guess the correct coverage 1 in 4 times he is going to be in trouble.:laugh2:

[devotedfan]

The wonderlic is NOT a current events test. Its a logic/common sense test. I don't see the reason for all the spin control. The guy is clearly 'dumb as a stump'. Think of the retake as this. Third and ten, from the fifty, seven step drop, guy wide open on the skinny post, and Vinny throws it into the pressbox. Oh,... wait. Flag on the play. Encroachment. Replay third down. Same seven step drop and skinny post. Vinny throws it over the press box. 16??? That's 32%. You gotta be kidding. After taking the test once already? They aren't 'splittin' the atom' on this test. Sounds like he hired Quinthy, not Jery Whatshisname, the QB coach, to have him ready for the combines and draft.:D

[devotedfan]

So his COMBINED score is 22.
When they bell all the marks, Vinny will end up with a 2. Or converted to a GPA,... about .0000000017777777.:laugh1:

[Alexander]

Believe that he'll take it one more time and do much better.

I tend to do better the third time I take a test also.

[The30YardSlant]

Just face it people, he's a Hell of an athlete, but only slightly above Forrest Gump on the sharpness scale....

[theogt]

I think most of the items have 4 or 5 options -- if you assume an average of 4 options per item, getting 16 right would be a little strange if someone just guessed (a 6% probability)

But if someone were coached to spend the first 10 minutes answering what they could then filling in the rest randomly ..... not that unlikely.

Let's say Vince completed 10 items the first time he took the test and got 6 right (it is very common on timed tests that many answers are left blank). He repeated that performance the 2nd time he took the test. But this time, instead of leaving the rest of the items blank, he filled in an answer for all 40 additional items. Guessing he'd get about 1 in 4 correct -- or ..... 10 more points.I figured the average # of answers would be about 3-4, hence, the 12-16 questions correct.

As for the last paragraph, sounds plausible to me.

[Avery]

Just face it people, he's a Hell of an athlete, but only slightly above Forrest Gump on the sharpness scale....

...but he knows what love is.

Dude bagged Jenny. He's not a complete idiot.

[PacoReloaded]

Whether it's 6 or 16 Young's still pretty dang stupid.

[BlueWave]

How hard is it? Here's a link to a sample. Grade school level.




http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228test.html

[theogt]

With that said VY will be a very rich man come draft time and will be a top 5 pick and will be able to prove if he is a "real nfl qb" or not. Question why do you care so much if he made a 6 or not will it affect you putting food on the table?

You my friend need a little Haterade.This is an NFL/Cowboys discussion board. I can't think of a single thread that actually affected me (or presumably you), yet we continue to post. Stop "hatin" and think before you post.

[The30YardSlant]

...but he knows what love is.

Dude bagged Jenny. He's not a complete idiot.

??? :confused:

[AbeBeta]

How hard is it? Here's a link to a sample. Grade school level.


But you have to answer 50 questions in 12 minutes. It is much harder when you have only 15 seconds per item.

[theogt]

??? :confused:"I'm not a smart man Jenny, but I know what love is."

[AbeBeta]

I figured the average # of answers would be about 3-4, hence, the 12-16 questions correct.

As for the last paragraph, sounds plausible to me.

either way -- I think we can agree that it is entirely possible that his agent (or Mac Brown - since his agent is a bigger idiot) told him to be sure to not leave any items blank on his retest.

[The30YardSlant]

"I'm not a smart man Jenny, but I know what love is."

Gotcha

[baj1dallas]

Tests have nothing to do with intelligence anyway. All you can learn from the Wonderlic is whether somebody can read or not.

The only legitimate criteria for judging intelligence is success in life.

[AbeBeta]

Tests have nothing to do with intelligence anyway. All you can learn from the Wonderlic is whether somebody can read or not.

The only legitimate criteria for judging intelligence is success in life.

yeah, don't let science get in the way of your 'idears' there.

actually intelligence tests are often good predictors of success -- for example the Wonderlic is a decent predictor of academic performance -- which is a form of success in life.

[theogt]

Tests have nothing to do with intelligence anyway. All you can learn from the Wonderlic is whether somebody can read or not.

The only legitimate criteria for judging intelligence is success in life.The functional equivalent of saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." The obvious reply is, "Yes, and no."

[5Stars]

Tests have nothing to do with intelligence anyway. All you can learn from the Wonderlic is whether somebody can read or not.

The only legitimate criteria for judging intelligence is success in life.

You know what? You do have some sort of point there...

Did you know (and I'm sure you do), that an uneducated black man invented the elevator!

You are awarded a Bronze Star....:)

[AbeBeta]

You know what? You do have some sort of point there...

Did you know (and I'm sure you do), that an uneducated black man invented the elevator!

You are awarded a Bronze Star....:)

uneducated doesn't mean someone is of low intelligence.

[5Stars]

uneducated doesn't mean someone is of low intelligence.

That is very true! Some of the smartest people on the planet have failed BIG TIME!

You have earned one Bronze Star....:star:

[jimmy40]

Mon, 27 Feb 2006 05:54:58 -0800

John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle (http://www.kffl.com/link/140), reports Saturday, Feb. 25 a rumor that Texas QB Vince Young (http://www.kffl.com/player/13206/nfl) had scored a six on the Wonderlic test sent shock waves through the NFL Combine (http://www.kffl.com/link/183). Sunday, Feb. 26, the Combine said the test score of six that was being reported by some media outlets was false. Young took the test again and scored 16. According to Young's agent, Major Adams, the Sunday test was administered by Jeff Foster, executive director of National Scouting Combine.

"The combine officials assured us that score (six) was false and that the accurate score will be known when the combine results are given to each team," Adams said.

Wonderlic scores are supposed to be confidential and are never confirmed publicly by the NFL (http://www.kffl.com/team/77/nfl), because they are included in Combine results given to teams after the Combine, scores leak out. Prospects can take the Wonderlic tests as many times as they want. While Young's Wonderlic tests created a huge controversy, he was busy interviewing with different teams.No matter how stupid he is, he was smart enough not to be an aggie.:lmao: :lmao: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[jimmy40]

Just face it people, he's a Hell of an athlete, but only slightly above Forrest Gump on the sharpness scale....
That's not a nice way to talk about a&m's daddy.

[The30YardSlant]

That's not a nice way to talk about a&m's daddy.

Daddy? In Radio's 3 career game sagainst A&M, he had 5 turnovers, was sacked 10 times, ran for an average of a little over 30 yards a game, and hurt his team more than helped in all 3. In 2003, his defense bailed him out. In 2004, Wicky bailed him out. In 2005, A&M's lack of a passing game bailed him out.

[Funxva]

I got an 13/15 on the Wonderlic test. Missed the Pages question and the Profitquestion. I probably could have figured out the profit question, but I'm not being drafted. :)

[iceberg]

I got an 13/15 on the Wonderlic test. Missed the Pages question and the Profitquestion. I probably could have figured out the profit question, but I'm not being drafted. :)

same ones i missed. i just didn't feel like doing the math so i passed on it.

[WoodysGirl]

Test scores may put Young back to work


03:39 PM CST on Monday, February 27, 2006

Rick Gosselin



INDIANAPOLIS – Southern Cal couldn't tackle Vince Young in the Rose Bowl in January. But a piece of paper apparently tackled the Texas quarterback in February.

Young apparently took a Wonderlic test last weekend at the NFL scouting combine. He apparently scored in the single digits, reportedly a 6. He apparently took it again a day later and scored higher, reportedly a 16.

All these "apparentlys" and "reportedlys" are because Wonderlic scores, like drug tests, are supposed to be kept confidential by the NFL. No one in the league will go on record to say that Young scored a 6, 16, 26 or 36 – although NFL officials moved quickly Sunday morning to deny reports that Young scored a 6.

"I have been told it was inaccurate by a source good enough for me to stand up here and quote it," said Charlie Casserly, the general manager of Young's hometown Houston Texans. "Otherwise I wouldn't get up here and just say it."

The test, created by Wonderlic, Inc., has been around since 1937. Wonderlic describes the exam as "a short-form measure of cognitive ability designed for simple administration and interpretation." In short, it's a general intelligence, multiple-choice, time test.

There are 50 questions with a 12-minute time limit. You add up the number of correct answers for a composite test score. If you answer 37 questions in the 12 minutes and only 20 of them are correct, your score is 20.

The questions start off easy and become harder as the test progresses. Here's a sample question: If Sunday is the first day of the week, then Wednesday is the ____________ day. Then there are five multiple choice answers to choose from.

"It's basically a reading-comprehension test," Kansas City Chiefs president Carl Peterson said. "It's an indication that a young man may or may not have a reading comprehension problem.

"How important is that to us? We do a lot of teaching from playbooks. (The Wonderlic test) gives you an indication that there may be a problem here, so let's examine this further."

Former Cincinnati Bengals tight end Pat McInally, who played from 1976-85, reportedly is the only NFL draft prospect ever to score a 50 on the test. McInally went to Harvard. So did quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick, who reportedly scored in the 40s at last year's scouting combine.

The NFL would prefer quarterbacks to score in the 30s (or higher). The 20s are acceptable. The teens would be a red flag on a quarterback's draft stock – but not a fatal flaw.

"Anyone who uses the Wonderlic has to start with the premise that this is a reading comprehension test," Peterson said. "It's not an intelligence, knowledge test. You want to know how a guy learns best. It's usually a combination of reading, visualizing and walking through it."

Just as prospects prepare for the physical drills at the combine, their agents prepare them for the Wonderlic test as well. Many agents provide their players sample tests. Some take them two and three times per day in the weeks leading up to the combine to sharpen reading comprehension against a clock.

It is not known whether Young's inexperienced representation team of family and friends had prepared him for the Wonderlic test he would take at Indianapolis. But the rule of thumb is the more often you take the test, the better you score.

"It's just another piece of the puzzle," Peterson said. "We're not going to get too excited about it. It's not an indication whether a guy can play football or not.

"Some guys over the years have scored well, some not so well. I don't remember what Joe Montana scored, but I do remember he completed a lot of passes."

Young was one of 25 quarterbacks invited to the combine and showed up with an impressive portfolio – the Maxwell, Manning and O'Brien awards plus an All-America certificate.

Young was an early projection as a Top 5 draft pick, so he elected not to participate in any of the on-the-field drills. His participation was limited to the individual player interviews conducted by the teams – and the two Wonderlic tests.

Young's draft stock shined before the combine. It now appears he has some polishing to do before his campus workout in March.

Link (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/nfl/stories/022806dnspogosselin.6bdb28a3.html)

[AbeBeta]

I got an 13/15 on the Wonderlic test. Missed the Pages question and the Profitquestion. I probably could have figured out the profit question, but I'm not being drafted. :)

did you give yourself 3 minutes and 40 seconds to complete it? That's about the pace that the test should be taken -- 50 questions over 12 mintues. Otherwise the scoring is not valid. It is at its core a time-limited test.

[Chief]

...but he knows what love is.

Dude bagged Jenny. He's not a complete idiot.

:laugh2:

Medal of Honor

Guh-zillionaire

Met three presidents

Taught Elvis to dance

Vince has a lot to live up to.

[Funxva]

did you give yourself 3 minutes and 40 seconds to complete it? That's about the pace that the test should be taken -- 50 questions over 12 mintues. Otherwise the scoring is not valid. It is at its core a time-limited test.

I'd say it was around that. I thank madden for the questions though. They are very similar.

Haha just kidding. I was a pretty good student in school..

haha just kidding again.

Seriously though... They weren't all that bad. Reminded me of SAT stuff.

[theogt]

I'd say it was around that. I thank madden for the questions though. They are very similar.

Haha just kidding. I was a pretty good student in school..

haha just kidding again.

Seriously though... They weren't all that bad. Reminded me of SAT stuff.Exactly. You'd have to be very "special" to score a 16.

[ThreeSportStar80]

Experts stated the Wonderlic test is probably the least important eliment of the draft process.

[REDVOLUTION]

I heard someone on ESPN say that Drew Henson scored more than Donovan McNabb and some other player(cant remember name) combined on the Wonderlic test

For those that think that has meaning for NFL player

[AbeBeta]

I heard someone on ESPN say that Drew Henson scored more than Donovan McNabb and some other player(cant remember name) combined on the Wonderlic test

For those that think that has meaning for NFL player

one of several indicators. of course it isn't a perfect predictor on its own. duh.

[AbeBeta]

Experts stated the Wonderlic test is probably the least important eliment of the draft process.

hmm. then why do they continue to administer it? it is one of several ways to to tell if someone is smart enough or not. some "experts" might ignore it but that doesn't mean it isn't important to others.

[Juke99]

A Wonderlic exam tests a persons ability to take a Wonderlic exam.

I don't necessarily think it tests intelligence.

And taking it a step further, there are all kinds of intelligence.

One of the most brilliant athletes I have ever seen was Muhammad Ali. The guy was a genius in his sport. Long after his skills declined, his intelligence carried him.

I'll bet his Wonderlic score wouldn't have been high.

[theogt]

A Wonderlic exam tests a persons ability to take a Wonderlic exam.

I don't necessarily think it tests intelligence.

And taking it a step further, there are all kinds of intelligence.

One of the most brilliant athletes I have ever seen was Muhammad Ali. The guy was a genius in his sport. Long after his skills declined, his intelligence carried him.

I'll bet his Wonderlic score wouldn't have been high.I think you're confusing athletic prowess with intelligence. Intelligence is intelligence. Athletic prowess doesn't help you read a defense.

[AbeBeta]

A Wonderlic exam tests a persons ability to take a Wonderlic exam.

I don't necessarily think it tests intelligence.

And taking it a step further, there are all kinds of intelligence.


the wonderlic is designed as a measure of general intelligence that tests a number those aspects of intelligence. keep in mind that psychologists who study intelligence are the ones designing these tests -- those folks are the ones who came up with the concept of different kinds of intelligence.

to say it doesn't measure intelligence is not supported by data - it is at least moderately related to most widely used intelligence measures. it does. at issue is how strongly it is related to intelligence.

any GM who uses this test as their only data for player evaluation or who attends mindlessly to "cutoffs" for positions is being stupid. the test isn't that fine an instrument. however, extremely low scores raise a serious red flag.

does that mean that Young can't be a succesful QB? no. does it make teams think twice about picking him high and investing millions in a signing bonus - yes, it has to.

[StanleySpadowski]

Here's a little problem for those that think the wonderlic is meaningless, find a QB who has won the Super Bowl who scored less than 20 (average intelligence).


People love to show Marino and McNabb with low scores but the last time I checked, neither had ring.

[AbeBeta]

Here's a little problem for those that think the wonderlic is meaningless, find a QB who has won the Super Bowl who scored less than 20 (average intelligence).


People love to show Marino and McNabb with low scores but the last time I checked, neither had ring.

I still think you have to throw Marino out there. He took the test back when it wasn't the big deal it is now. Unlike today's prospects I doubt he ever saw practice items on the test (exposure to practice items can raise scores considerably), received coaching on test taking strategies, or got tutoring to give him the "mental reps" on the types of items the Wonderlic tests for. Tough to compare across generations here.

McNabb shows that the Wonderlic is just one indicator of intelligence. Some guys who score low might turn out succesful. But look at McNabb's situation - he has worked in the same offense for his entire career, with some of the best QB instruction in the league -- that can be huge as he's got great coaching and a consistent system.

[JIGGYFLY]

This is an NFL/Cowboys discussion board. I can't think of a single thread that actually affected me (or presumably you), yet we continue to post. Stop "hatin" and think before you post.

This is a cowboys discussion board and the last time I checked VY had no chance of being a cowboy :cool: The question I have is why do you have to post in mutiple threads about how dumb you think he is when actually you have no proof and are basing this on a rumour of a test score, but hey whatever floats your boat.

[Chuck 54]

Maybe he just had a bad day or didn't think through his answers and realized he'd made a mistake when he saw his score.

Obviously, he didn't get smarter the 2nd time...he probably just took it more seriously. Taking it a second time doesn't automatically improve your score. I'm sure he doesn't get the exact same test but a similar test, like taking the SATs.

So now we know that he's not an idiot, just around the low end of average....Dan Marino scored the same 16....didn't seem to hurt his ability to read defenses or make quick decisions.

I'm still more concerned with Young's actual ability to pass the football than I am his test score...I just don't believe he's a big time passer.

[theogt]

This is a cowboys discussion board and the last time I checked VY had no chance of being a cowboy :cool: The two aren't mutually exclusive.
The question I have is why do you have to post in mutiple threads about how dumb you think he is...I posted on multiple threads because the other was deleted for other various reasons. The discussion moved here so I posted here. ...when actually you have no proof and are basing this on a rumour of a test score, but hey whatever floats your boat.99% of the discussions here are based on rumor. This is no different.

[JIGGYFLY]

The two aren't mutually exclusive.
I posted on multiple threads because the other was deleted for other various reasons. The discussion moved here so I posted here. 99% of the discussions here are based on rumor. This is no different.

I ask again what were you trying to prove by posting he is dumb in mutiple threads when you have no actuall proof. No 99% of the discussions on this board is not based on rumor if this was the case the boared would not be as balanced as it is.

[theogt]

I ask again what were you trying to prove by posting he is dumb in mutiple threads when you have no actuall proof.I never posted that he is dumb. I said several times that a score of 6 is a very likely indicator that someone has an extremely low intelligence. That this is true was what I was trying to prove.

No 99% of the discussions on this board is not based on rumor if this was the case the boared would not be as balanced as it is.Perhaps not 99% (that was hyperbole), but certainly the majority of threads, ESPECIALLY during the off-season, are about rumors or speculation.

[AbeBeta]

Obviously, he didn't get smarter the 2nd time...he probably just took it more seriously. Taking it a second time doesn't automatically improve your score. I'm sure he doesn't get the exact same test but a similar test, like taking the SATs.


Taking the same test a few days apart will likely improve scores -- there are a number of reasons for this such as test familiarity and a statistical issue called regression to the mean. also, someone could have said "Now Vinnie - don't leave those last 30 or so questions blank if you don't have time -- just fill in answer" - that could easily boost his score.

As far as taking it seriously the second time -- this, to me, is far more an indicator of low intelligence than is the initial low score. If a top 5 prospect doesn't know that the Wonderlic is important to some teams then how smart can he be?

[REDVOLUTION]

one of several indicators. of course it isn't a perfect predictor on its own. duh.

"duh" for you is like "ummmm" for others.....
cant help ya 'self
pretty articulate "aint" ya :lmao2:

[REDVOLUTION]

Here's a little problem for those that think the wonderlic is meaningless, find a QB who has won the Super Bowl who scored less than 20 (average intelligence).


People love to show Marino and McNabb with low scores but the last time I checked, neither had ring.

Thank you for that explanation. Good post.

Better than "abersonc" with his "duh" :laugh2:

[theogt]

Thank you for that explanation. Good post.

Better than "abersonc" with his "duh" :laugh2:Actually thats more likely correlation rather than causation.

[Chuck 54]

Taking the same test a few days apart will likely improve scores -- there are a number of reasons for this such as test familiarity and a statistical issue called regression to the mean. also, someone could have said "Now Vinnie - don't leave those last 30 or so questions blank if you don't have time -- just fill in answer" - that could easily boost his score.

As far as taking it seriously the second time -- this, to me, is far more an indicator of low intelligence than is the initial low score. If a top 5 prospect doesn't know that the Wonderlic is important to some teams then how smart can he be?

According to what I read, players are always allowed to take the test as many times as they wish....so what's really new here? Even Henson's wonderful score, which obviously means nothing about being able to play football, could have been on his 2nd or even 3rd try because the NFL doesn't report how many times a player took the test or what his scores were each time.

The only thing noteworthy in this whole mess is that his first test score leaked out before the final score that is what's reported to the teams.

This is much ado about nothing....Vince Young, unless he proves in workouts that he can't pass worth a damn, will still be the 2nd QB drafted...those suggesting that Cutler will go before him won't be reminding us of that sensational prognositcation when Young is drafted #3 by Tenn.

I can't believe I'm defending this bum, since I don't think he passes very well...and I'm a huge USC fan.

[AbeBeta]

According to what I read, players are always allowed to take the test as many times as they wish....so what's really new here? Even Henson's wonderful score, which obviously means nothing about being able to play football, could have been on his 2nd or even 3rd try because the NFL doesn't report how many times a player took the test or what his scores were each time.

The only thing noteworthy in this whole mess is that his first test score leaked out before the final score that is what's reported to the teams.

This is much ado about nothing....Vince Young, unless he proves in workouts that he can't pass worth a damn, will still be the 2nd QB drafted...those suggesting that Cutler will go before him won't be reminding us of that sensational prognositcation when Young is drafted #3 by Tenn.

I can't believe I'm defending this bum, since I don't think he passes very well...and I'm a huge USC fan.

Players usually do take the test a couple of times - but not like this. They'll take it as juniors, then again at the combine, then maybe later again if they are a top prospect.

What you don't see is that a guy gets to take it twice -- with the second test administered by the executive director of the combine. Me -- my take is that Young would have gotten about a 16 if his agent had prepared him. That first test -- and the horrible score on it -- probably represents a guy who was totally unprepared -- who didn't even know to not leave items blank when time ran out.

regardless 16 is low. and it should make teams quiz him extensively or even administer more extensive testing

[conner01]

i knew he was'nt real bright when he hired an agent who had no idea he would have to take the test.i do think his score was right, and i do think the nfl is trying to cover up his bad score. the bottom line is you have a qb who is a great athlete and dumb as a box of rocks.he will never be a star, maybe in a wco he may be ok but no star.to be a star qb you have to be able to read a defense and if you can't spell "cat" you can't read a defense

[playit12]

According to what I read, players are always allowed to take the test as many times as they wish....so what's really new here? Even Henson's wonderful score, which obviously means nothing about being able to play football, could have been on his 2nd or even 3rd try because the NFL doesn't report how many times a player took the test or what his scores were each time.


I have never heard of a player taking the Wonderlic more than one time at the same combine. Players routinely take the Wonderlic their junior or sophmore year before coming out. These scores are generally only reported when there is a drastic improvement in the score. This was the case with Akali Smith and Jason Cambell for instance. Rumors circulated that Smith cheated on his second exam, explaining the incredible improvement... something along the lines of 16 to 35 or something like that.

As for the other comments...

The test is not an IQ test or a test of knowledge... it is designed to test a persons ability to think critically and learn material. Specifically, the test is designed to give a potential employer some idea of how long it will take to train a potential employee. Fields where there is a significant amount of material that needs to be learned quickly (computer programmer for instance) would be advised to use employees with higher Wonderlic scores, while jobs that require easy duplicate task (manufacturing) would not require such lofty scores. Wonderlic publishes scores guidelines for each field. I seem to recall 16 being around the area required for Garbage men. (Seriously.. I'm not making that up.) Scores like 31 or so were suggested for computer programmers.

A score of 6 would suggest a serious learning dissability. For those saying that it doesn't in anyway matter for a persons ability to play football, I think you are wrong. Teams often will dynamically change their schemes in a game or even before a play. The ability for a player to be able to adapt quickly to those changes is paramount for some positions. Those same positions are routinely listed as the positions that average the highest Wonderlic Scores... Center, QB, Safety, MLB....

I think the explanation given before, that Vince perhaps didn't fill in the remaining blank answers with guesses is probably the most likely situation. In this case his acurate score is probably around a 16. But that is nothing to be proud about. It shows that he's still not a bright guy and that he didn't prepare for the exam. Plus, and I've taken many many standerdized test... they always tell you before the exam if guessing is advantageous or not. I'm positive they told the players before this test. So that might also mean that he simply didn't bother to pay attention to instructions.

I might not have a bottom "cut-off" on scores for a player, but I would certainly factor it into my overall raiting. For a players in a position that demands dynamic thinking I would give it upwards of 30% weight along with measurables, past production, and personality. Other positions, like DT, I might only weight it at 5%.

[playit12]

Plus, and I've taken many many standerdized test... they always tell you before the exam if guessing is advantageous or not. I'm positive they told the players before this test. So that might also mean that he simply didn't bother to pay attention to instructions.

Before some of the old timers get on my case about this let me clarify real quick. The first time I took the SATs they did not tell us if it was advantageous to guess. However, shortly afterwards there was quite a scandal where people were suggesting that the SAT was racially biased. One of the many complaints was that affluent students, who could afford to take a prep course, were being told when it was advantageous to guess on a paticular test. For instance it's not on test that subtract points for wrong answers but is for test that don't. Therefor, it became a policy to make this information available to everyone that took the test. It's always in the writting at the beggining of the exam and on every test I've taken since, is also spoken by the proctor.

[poke]

.......to be a star qb you have to be able to read a defense and if you can't spell "cat" you can't read a defense

well Terry Bradshaw did okay and according to Hollywood Henderson
Bradshaw couldn't spell CAT if you spotted him the C and the T.

of course Hollywood didn't turn out to be the brightest bulb in the chandelier.:D

[playit12]

well Terry Bradshaw did okay and according to Hollywood Henderson
Bradshaw couldn't spell CAT if you spotted him the C and the T.

of course Hollywood didn't turn out to be the brightest bulb in the chandelier.:D

Bradshaw was bright enough to play stupid. I can assure he would not be in the teens of a Wonderlic.

[adbutcher]

The test is geared towards testing an applicant’s ability to think quickly about subject matter that he or she should already know. You basically have 14.4 seconds a question consisting of simple math and language skills. To get a more accurate depiction of a player’s football IQ the test should be more sport or position specific. I could care less if the player knows the difference between condescending and consenting. Football is about conditioned learning, everything is based on repetition. Snaps in practice and games are vital to a player’s development not synonyms and homonyms. This little mole hill is turning into a mountain, imo.

[conner01]

i bet you terry would score around 20 which is the avg, he plays dumb but he was way to good at reading defences to be as dumb as he acts.

[Juke99]

the wonderlic is designed as a measure of general intelligence that tests a number those aspects of intelligence. keep in mind that psychologists who study intelligence are the ones designing these tests -- those folks are the ones who came up with the concept of different kinds of intelligence.

to say it doesn't measure intelligence is not supported by data - it is at least moderately related to most widely used intelligence measures. it does. at issue is how strongly it is related to intelligence.

any GM who uses this test as their only data for player evaluation or who attends mindlessly to "cutoffs" for positions is being stupid. the test isn't that fine an instrument. however, extremely low scores raise a serious red flag.

does that mean that Young can't be a succesful QB? no. does it make teams think twice about picking him high and investing millions in a signing bonus - yes, it has to.




Jean Piaget, the father of cognitive development, was opposed to defining intelligence in terms of the number of items answered correctly on a so-called intelligence test. Intelligence is a complex term in Piaget’s theory, but in general he said that intelligence is always related to an organism’s adaptation to its environment. Piaget emphasized the dynamic nature of intelligence and how it qualitatively changes.