Carpenter or Lawson?

[Tass]

I tend to lean toward Carpenter. Seems like he was on a better team and played opposite a talented guy in Hawk...I'm sure some of Hawk rubbed of on Bobby. Even though Lawson is a better athlete I just think Carpenter is a better football player. What do y'all think?

[Da Hammer]

Carpenter. I just think he's been underrated playing his whole CF career next to Hawk

[theogt]

Carpenter. I just think he's been underrated playing his whole CF career next to HawkTo me that more likely has the effect of making him overrated.

[speedkilz88]

Lawson played opposite a talented guy in Mario Williams. What difference that makes I have know idea. They are both good players but Lawson is another freak like Ware.

[BigDFan5]

Lawson

[Clove]

I'll go with Lawson there. If you look at Washington now, they are going to stretch the field. The Moss WR screen play will now be on both sides with Randel El.

So to counter that, we're going to have to have pressure on the QB and that person is Lawson.

[Tass]

LOL...actually, I don't know why I bother. Every guy I've ever wanted the Boys to draft has not been drafted by us (Pollack, Tinoisamoa, Sopoaga, etc.). If I REALLY hope we draft Carpenter that is a sure bet that we won't.

[Displaced Cowboy]

Carpenter.

It's all about production and Carpenter has produced and Lawson didn't.

[cleverusername]

I tend to lean toward Carpenter. Seems like he was on a better team and played opposite a talented guy in Hawk...I'm sure some of Hawk rubbed of on Bobby. Even though Lawson is a better athlete I just think Carpenter is a better football player. What do y'all think?



Carpenter, He's the better over all player, But I wouldn't be disappointed with Manny, what an athlete.

[VThokie7]

I want the one that is going to be better at generating a pass rush. To me that is Lawson, but honestly I don't really want Lawson in the 1st round

[RealCowboyfan]

Manny Lawson

[BigDFan5]

Carpenter.

It's all about production and Carpenter has produced and Lawson didn't.

Lawson didn't produce?? wth?

[theogt]

This should be redone as a poll.

[cowboysfan31]

I'd go for Carpenter hands down. It'd be nice to have 2 rushing terrors like Ware and Lawson on the outside, but then we're hurting out pass coverage over the middle. We need someone like Carpenter that can drop back and cover a RB or TE.

[junk]

I like Carpenter the best, but I would probably be happy with Carpenter, Lawson, Wimbley or Anderson.

I see Carpenter and Anderson as better SOLB prospects.

[speedkilz88]

58 tackles, 19.5 tackles for loss, 10.5 sacks and he gets crapped on as not being a player? I get so tired of people saying this crap. Ware and Merriman got the same treatment last season.

[cowboysfan31]

I like Carpenter the best, but I would probably be happy with Carpenter, Lawson, Wimbley or Anderson.

I see Carpenter and Anderson as better SOLB prospects.

I assume you mean Mark Anderson. I don't think he'll be a SOLB in the NFL, he's converting from DE in college.

[The30YardSlant]

Lawson = Pass rusher

Carpenter = Run stopper, tackler

Depends on what style BP and JJ want

[speedkilz88]

Lawson does have LB experience and with 4.4 speed he should be able to cover in zone which is what 3-4 lbs do. Steelers LBs aren't going to cover any better.

[ghst187]

I think Carpenter is a great player and more NFL ready. I think his best position is ILB and he'd be a great ILB in our 3-4.
However, we just signed Ayodele to play that position and I don't think Carpenter would be a great OLB. Lawson is a freakish athlete, freakish. I think Lawson could make a bigtime playmaking OLB. Lawson has more potential to be a fearsome passrusher and he definitely has the speed to run down Westbrook and Moss on all those stinkin screen passes.
I was leaning towards Carpenter until we signed Ayodele, now I'm think Lawson. He could be a star and playing OLB, he'll have the freedom to use his instincts and athleticism.

[cleverusername]

Carpenter at 18, But If we could trade down and get Manny in the 2nd and a 3rd or 4th I think that may be are best value.

[VThokie7]

Lawson = Pass rusher

Carpenter = Run stopper, tackler

Depends on what style BP and JJ want

I agree, i'm hoping they want a pass rusher. The 3-4 is so much more effective when you have 2 legitimate pass rushers at OLB.

[CowboysNumeroUno]

I'd go for Carpenter hands down. It'd be nice to have 2 rushing terrors like Ware and Lawson on the outside, but then we're hurting out pass coverage over the middle. We need someone like Carpenter that can drop back and cover a RB or TE.

my thoughts exactly

[jumanji]

carpenter is no where near the talent of lawson. there is no comparison. for those you that say he is underrated...its the other way around. he benefited from having hawke around.

[AsthmaField]

I'm really torn between Lawson and Carpenter. I like both, I really do, and the thing is, I think they would bring different things to the table, like a poster above has already mentioned.

Carpenter would be more ready to just step in and contribute, but Lawson is definately the better athlete... but not by as much as some might think. Carpenter is a very good athlete in his own right. He does have 40 speed, but his change of direction is very good... better than most. I've been really busy with my new job, so I haven't spent as much time crunching the numbers... so I don't know Lawson's 3 cone and shuttle times... but Carpenter's is very good. I like good numbers in those two drills better than I like 40 times. Change of direction is so important at almost every position... and I think it is very vital for a LB. Carpenter could also excel at ILB and so would provide versatility if say, Ayodele proves to be a better OLB than ILB (although I think his best spot is inside next to Bradie). I like Carpenter's attitude and his makeup. He's mean and LOVES football.

Lawson is a pure edge rusher and him coming from one spot and Ware coming from the other would create great problems for offenses. Who do you chip? Who do you double? The problem is teams would find ways to try to get Lawson to drop into coverage if that's a real weakness for him. We'd have to counter that some way. If we did bring both... look out!

I think Lawson could learn coverage but I'm not sure Carpenter could ever learn to be the pass rusher that Lawson could be though. Carpenter is a good pass rusher too... I just think Lawson has more upside there.

Typing all this out has made it apparent why there's so many split on these two guys. Both have limitations... but not many. Both would be very good picks at 18 IMO.

The bottom line is that I'd be happy with either and I'll go with whichever Parcells thinks would fit our needs better.

[junk]

I assume you mean Mark Anderson. I don't think he'll be a SOLB in the NFL, he's converting from DE in college.

So is Lawson. So is Wimbley. So did Ware. So are half the 3-4 linebackers in the NFL.

In fact, I think Carpenter is one of the few actual LBers that would be a good 3-4 backer. I think Anderson would be better able to handle the strong side than some of the other converted DEs. He tore up the combine. Very athletic.

I certainly don't think you want someone like Chad Greenway, DeMeco Ryans or Ernie Sims over there.

[bigdrulez3141]

Carpenter would definately be the stereotypical 3-4 ssolb and his is known to have good blitzing ability, and lawson is a ware clone with more athletic ability but more of a wolb witch we already have with ware.. so ill take carpenter

[metalichris]

Carpenter and Mcginest :bow:

[ThreeSportStar80]

Lawson, I think he's more talented and has the speed to really turn the corner on TE's and O-linemen.

[speedkilz88]

Carpenter would definately be the stereotypical 3-4 ssolb and his is known to have good blitzing ability, and lawson is a ware clone with more athletic ability but more of a wolb witch we already have with ware.. so ill take carpenterWare could play strong side if thats where they needed him. They are both big and strong enough to play that side. The DE experience actually enhances their chances of playing the strong side going toe to toe with OTs.

[Manster68]

When in doubt, select the player that can best kill the quarterback.

Lawson!

[Rack Bauer]

I go back and forth with which player I'd prefer on a daily basis.

One day it's Carpenter, the next it's Lawson.


Truth is both would be an EXCELLENT addition to the team and I'd be happy with either one of them.


The only problem would be if they were both available to us at #18. Which do you pick? Well, you hope like hell you can trade down 2-4 spots and still get one of them, while also adding another pick, hopefully a 3rd.

[Rack Bauer]

When in doubt, select the player that can best kill the quarterback.

Lawson!


Carpenter can also kill QBs. Doesn't have the pass rush potential that Lawson has, but it still a good pass rusher and probably would be a better SOLB.


Again, I'd be happy with either one. In fact, if we do get either one of the two, I'll literally go outside and do a backflip.

Or try to at least.

[Manster68]

I go back and forth with which player I'd prefer on a daily basis.

One day it's Carpenter, the next it's Lawson.


Truth is both would be an EXCELLENT addition to the team and I'd be happy with either one of them.


The only problem would be if they were both available to us at #18. Which do you pick? Well, you hope like hell you can trade down 2-4 spots and still get one of them, while also adding another pick, hopefully a 3rd.

Hey, watch it Rack.

You're making sense!

[Rack Bauer]

Hey, watch it Rack.

You're making sense!


I have my moments from time to time. :D

[kiheikiwi]

Put me down for Carpenter!

[MONT17]

the COWBOYS could use both guys... and actually this is where BILL earns his money... IMO getting to the QB is an art as much as a skill and thats where BILL must use his knowledge to determine who will be the BETTER PRO!!!

In College both players played with talent... so u cant use (for what ever reason) the "well he played with this guy" bit, to cancel out someone! They Both put up numbers and they both have Measurables out the BUTT... and If BILL picks the wrong one it will be in the back of COWBOY fans minds for a long time!

I like em both and If it were up to me I would try to draft them both! and tell WILLIE to go play for the BROWNS... and tell BRADIE (06 FA) and BURNETT (IR BAIT) to bring a lunch to training camp because you may be back on TEAMS!


oh and since we are on the topic of College DEs playing LB in the pros add AKIN AY (DE at Purdue for the guys who dont wanna click over to ESPNs site) to the list!



make some trades and Draft them BOTH!

[JonJon]

With Ayodele signed and Burnett likely to challenge Shanle, Singleton, and James for the other inside spot, I think the logical choice here is Manny Lawson. He is the better pass rusher, and I wouldn't put Carpenter on the 3-4 OLB at only 6-2. Lawson has the better size-speed ratio and would be a beast opposite Ware as a pass rusher.

If LenDale White, Maroney, or even DeAngelo Williams is available at #18, it may be possible to move down to the late 1st round picks if teams in need of a RB want to move up. Teams like the Patriots, Panthers, and Colts might be willing to give up an additional pick to grab that slot. Hopefully, we could gain an additional 3rd or 4th and give us more room to add a safety like Ko Simpson and grab some additional line depth.

[ddh33]

I actually like Kamerion Wimbley a lot. But of these two, I prefer Lawson. I think his upside is greater.

[Tass]

I tend to prefer 6'2" 255 to 6'6" 240. Just seems like Lawson would be easier to push around and block because he is lankier. Carpenter seems like more of a chunk of granite in there.

[cowboysfan31]

With Ayodele signed and Burnett likely to challenge Shanle, Singleton, and James for the other inside spot, I think the logical choice here is Manny Lawson. He is the better pass rusher, and I wouldn't put Carpenter on the 3-4 OLB at only 6-2. Lawson has the better size-speed ratio and would be a beast opposite Ware as a pass rusher.

If LenDale White, Maroney, or even DeAngelo Williams is available at #18, it may be possible to move down to the late 1st round picks if teams in need of a RB want to move up. Teams like the Patriots, Panthers, and Colts might be willing to give up an additional pick to grab that slot. Hopefully, we could gain an additional 3rd or 4th and give us more room to add a safety like Ko Simpson and grab some additional line depth.

Trading down would be a good alternative, but Simpson is shooting up the boards and likely won't make it out of the first round. Right now he's probably the best FS behind Huff unless someone takes an early risk on Jason Allen.

[kiheikiwi]

I tend to prefer 6'2" 255 to 6'6" 240. Just seems like Lawson would be easier to push around and block because he is lankier. Carpenter seems like more of a chunk of granite in there.

I mentioned this in another thread yesterday, when you looked at Lawson at the combine, he looked lanky. I'm sure he can put weight on that frame, but I'm just not on that bandwagon.Carpenter OR Wimbely just seem destined for that spot.

[ghst187]

I tend to prefer 6'2" 255 to 6'6" 240. Just seems like Lawson would be easier to push around and block because he is lankier. Carpenter seems like more of a chunk of granite in there.

depends on what we want;
do you want a run stopper ILB, then Carpenter is definitely the dude

if you want a freakshow passrushing OLB, then Lawson is the dude.

Carpenter can play the OLB position and would probably still be a good choice but I think Lawson will be a bigger impact player there.
We already know we expect Ayodele to man the ILB next to James so i'm guessing we'll be looking for an OLB.
I think Wimbley is also on our radar. Daryl Tapp could be also and both could be available in the second.
I think we take a day 2 LB also...Parham or Schlegel are steals on day 2.

[JonJon]

Trading down would be a good alternative, but Simpson is shooting up the boards and likely won't make it out of the first round. Right now he's probably the best FS behind Huff unless someone takes an early risk on Jason Allen.

I'm starting to think the Cowboys are looking more in the direction of Jason Allen. His injury history has me a little concerned, but I think it is worth the risk. I think he is a great value if we can get him in the 3rd. I would take Lawson at 1:18 though...just too intriguing of a talent to pass up on the guy, but Carpenter wouldn'rt dissapoint either. Depending on what other O-line help we bring in, I expect the Cowboys first day to look like this:

1. Lawson
2. McNeill (if he makes it there)
3. Allen (if he makes it there)

Edit: I smell a Sig change a comin'

[MiStar]

Carpenter.

Just take a look at the established 3-4 defenses in the league, Steelers and Pats:

Pat's OLBs - Vrabel, McGinest, Colvin
Steeler's OLBs - Porter, Haggans

The common denominator: Shedding blocks, none of these guys have blazing speed like Ware or Lawson, but they've got more than enough speed to be successful. These aren't pure edge rushers, but rather guys who can create havoc in a multitude of ways.

The best 3-4 teams have guys that can rush inside and outside and stack and shed. Freakish speed is great, but not at the cost of being one-dimensional.

I want a young McGinnest, Vrabel, Haggans, Porter; In escence, I want Carpenter.

[Derinyar]

If Lawson is the great pass rusher people here want to credit him with being, its irrelevant to talk about drafting him cause he won't be there. Top pass rushers move up the draft board and fast. Ware had more movement room than Lawson does because he was less of a known factor because he was from a smaller school.

I suspect Lawson will either go up the draft boards or slide a bit further down. Carpenter likely slides also. I'm not sure where the value is at 18, but I suspect its not likely to be either of these guys.

[RealCowboyfan]

I say lawson he's faster, more atheletic, and better in coverage...

[Rack Bauer]

I say lawson he's faster, more atheletic, and better in coverage...


And you know this how?

[Cogan]

Lawson = Pass rusher

Carpenter = Run stopper, tackler

Depends on what style BP and JJ want

That is nonsense! Carpenter had 8-9 sacks last year, & that was with missing the Michigan game. He is a tremendous pass rusher. Besides, you don't want another DWare on the strong side. You want a bigger, more physical player who can take on the TE. That is where Carpenter played his whole college career. As far as who the best athelete is, I would have to say Lawson, but you get the guy who can best play the position, and that would be Carpenter.

[dallasfan]

Carpenter.

It's all about production and Carpenter has produced and Lawson didn't.

I'm just know reading the thread so I'm pretty sure that someone has pointed out how untrue this is. Lawson had like 10.5 sacks last year and 6 or 7 the year before. Both of these guys are productive college players, but Lawson is just way more athletic.

Lawson ran a 4.43 at the combine, Carpenter ran a 4.65.
Lawson did 23 reps at 225, Carpenter did 20.
Lawson did a 4.21 20 yard shuttle, Carpenter did a 4.31.
Lawson did his cone drill in 6.9 seconds, Carpenter did his in 6.88.

When examining both of them, I believe that Lawson has way more upside than Carpenter. For starters, Carpentrer is about as big as he'll get. At 6'5 Lawson can easily gain about another 10 Lbs, without sacrificing speed. The only area I believe Carpenter is superior is coverege ability, but this isn't as important to a 3-4 OLB compared to a 4-3 OLB, and Manny Lawson was an OLB his first 2 years at NC State.