What Cowboy fans dont realize... [Archive] - Dallas Cowboys Forum

skinsfan21

03-15-2006, 05:05 PM

I like how everyone has taken it upon themselves to rip the redskins free agent acqusitions. Granted we have gone on free agent spending sprees in the past, however none of them were under the guidance of Joe Gibbs. Since he has been here look at the Free Agents he has brought in, then think about the ones we have signed this offseason.

Joe Gibbs signed free agents:
Brunell (took us to playoffs)
Phillip Daniels
Cornelius Griffin
Santana Moss
Clinton Porits
David Patten
Shawn Springs
Randy Thomas
Marcus Washington
Renaldo Wynn
Casey Rabach
all of these guys are "core" redskins guys...there has been one free agent that he brought in that didn't work...Armstead...his track record speaks for itself...i expect nothing less the you all ripping our new guys, but i would think about what Gibbs has done before you speak.

VirusX

03-15-2006, 05:06 PM

Want a cookie?

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 05:07 PM

Skinsfan21, you're just opening yourself up for a ****storm here. None of these Cowboy fans would admit to being wrong if they cared.

I agree, minus Patten. Good post.

VirusX

03-15-2006, 05:09 PM

skinsfan21

03-15-2006, 05:10 PM

skinsfan21

03-15-2006, 05:11 PM

Your right we traded for Portis, but Gibbs brought him in.

Jarv

03-15-2006, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Derinyar
The Redskins are the undisputed kings of March. They have been continually doing the same things, the only thing that has saved them is the rate at which the cap has been expanding. The Cap has been expanding faster than figured on for a whie, especially this year. That has allowed the Skins to no wind up in a huge bind, that and the fact that your core players are still willing to restructre each year. The skins are literally one career ending injury away from a hell of a lot of trouble.

Frankly, I think the Skins "success" in March has hurt them more than its helped them. It makes their Front Office undervalue the draft and drafted players. It means they have to be the Kings of March every year to have any chance at a decent team.

I don't think they are cheating either. Derinyar is most accurate in his statement.

They choose not to keep Champ, Smoot, Lavar, Steven Davis, Pierce...Probably others too. Good players I'm sure they would like to have on their team now. But they are not due to the way Snyder plays. His team his choice. Different coach's over the years have had different styles and want certain players that fit their style, creates a lot of turnover.

Look, we and a few other teams were burned by the cap in earlier years when it was not expanding as fast. It's that simple...

We could do it too, I think JJ just has a little of the burnt stove syndrum. So he doesn't want to go back there.

The Skins could actually be a real force in the NFL if they keep up this strategy. There biggest problem to date is really that they trade too many draft picks and are not that great with the ones they have, especially in the later rounds.

If they continued with their top of the line...Yes I said top of the line cap management...and stopped trading draft picks, got smarter and some late round picks, they could build an outstanding team.

So I see their only real flaws is not in signing the FA's, there fine there as long as the cap keeps expanding (I'm not sure how that works tho?lol.)...but thier problem is trading a lot of picks and then not hitting on many their late round choices.

But all is not lost Dallas fans. The last couple of years OUR drafting has improved considerabliy (is that even a word?).

We could and should be more agressive in Free agency and cap management.

We are running the Eagles cap management mode, which is too try to save money for an emergency and convert extra cash into LTBE incentives to add to our dollars the next year.

Its up to JJ on which mode we want to use.

If JJ was more aggressive and we rolled more with the expanding cap, we would have the advantage because we are better at drafting (part of that is KEEPING your draft picks) and we just have more on hand now.

I didn't think this was a great FA season anyhow, the caps going up another..5-6 million next year so who knows about next year either ?

We just happen to need help at reciever this year and the best one is a dufus were not sure we want to take a chance on (and the draft isn't that great at reciever this year either). We could have been more agressive on 1 of the 2 olinemen (Bently and Hutch) and still would have been fine...But we didn't. Yell at Jerry if your pissed.

Demps, Chavous at FS I would gone hard for too. We have plenty of room left.

Its more of us not being aggressive enough than any cheating by the Skins.

Now 1 more thing. Since they restructured many contracts and spread out the bonus's on several players, they must keep those same players next year. That is where you get screwed. We don't have (or I don't) have the details on this but I think if Brunell or Samuels (and whoever else) were to retire or have a career threatning injury. They would be in trouble.

Their salary grows as the cap grows. In the late 90's our salaries grew faster than the cap...Bottom line.

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 05:13 PM

well i had to put the good w/ the bad not just a biased opinion. i dont care if i opend myself up for a **** storm...im tired of reading posts on all NFC east boards, besides extremeskins, that rip our signings. obviously gibbs knows what we want. im just sticking up for my team, as some cowboy fans do on our board.

I hear ya.

Also drafting Chris Cooley warrants mentioning on this board, especially since Parcells told him he'd never make it in the league.

It's almost like everyone else has gotten into the habit of bashing the Skins acquisitions so they do it no matter what the results are.

superpunk

03-15-2006, 05:13 PM

What Cowboys fans DO realize is that Gibbs won that way in a different era, with different rules. He could stockpile depth and keep it there. Doesn't work anymore. The model for success has been set - and it's not the Redskins way.

If you want all rosey opinions of Skins signings, you'd be better served just reading a Skins board. We know better.

BrAinPaiNt

03-15-2006, 05:15 PM

I hear ya.

Also drafting Chris Cooley warrants mentioning on this board, especially since Parcells told him he'd never make it in the league.

It's almost like everyone else has gotten into the habit of bashing the Skins acquisitions so they do it no matter what the results are.

Do skins fans actually expect different?

Afterall it is a dallas cowboys board.

We do have the best rivalry in football.

kingwhicker

03-15-2006, 05:15 PM

superpunk

03-15-2006, 05:16 PM

Damn whicker......lol

I like DC, BTW. :)

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 05:19 PM

Do skins fans actually expect different?

Afterall it is a dallas cowboys board.

We do have the best rivalry in football.

Hey man, all I'm asking for is a bit of respect. If the Cowboys had signed all the above listed players and shown it to me, I'd say "Yep, thats a good group there, no doubt." How can you see any other way around it?

MONT17

03-15-2006, 05:19 PM

why do they sign FREE AGENTS...because if they didnt they would be a BELOW AVERAGE team.... They have to spend money just to be competitive!

I just have one thing to say...how long will it take skins fans to figure out if JASON CAMPBELL cant beat out 35 year OLD BRUNELL in year 2+ he will never be a quality QB!!!

they say "never, say say never".... I'm saying never!

Campbell is at best a QUINCY CARTER clone from the SEC! But I'm once they figure that out they will sign a QB via FREE AGENCY like they did with RAMSEY!!!

one more thing...watching TRENT GREEN in SAUNDERs O for the last few years I will say that JASON CAMPBELL is a misfit much like RAMSEY was with GIBBS O....

the theme rolls on! ask yourself where would the skins be if they didnt OVERSPEND? now go back to REDSKINS park because I think SEAN TAYLOR is going to need help with all that money he is going to want when he sees ARCHULETTA play!!!

sago1

03-15-2006, 05:20 PM

Your tired about reading on this board that we ripping the Skins. Sorry about that, bit I've read the Skins board and they rip on us. Don't see you any better then we are.

But I will say that I'm impressed with some of the FAs the Skins have signed and how Snyder improved his team by adding Saunders as his HC. Also impressed that they brough in Greg Williams as HC & then paid the money to keep him here as HC when Gibbs leaves. Skins will have the stability on defense that is so valuable. I wish we had same situation with the Cowboys; we will be up a creek when Parcells goes cause Jones will screw up with another dumb coaching hire. Satisfied? Unlike some Cowboy fans I can admit to Skins doing right.

Also impressed by your signing of Brandon Lloyd. I wouldn't want Randle El here in Dallas but he will be good for you cause Saunders is creative enough to use him right. We aren't. Also think you picked up 1 nice defensive player. All in all, Skins will be tough to beat this year, but we will give it the old college try.

Hope I'm not banned for being a realist. BTW I'm also one of those guys who extremely concerned over the (shall I say slow start in FA that Cowboys have shown) but can't say more cause I might get banned or else reams of Cowboy fans will jump on me for not being patient enough. Patience is as patience does but no pulse means after several days there chance we dead.

5Stars

03-15-2006, 05:21 PM

BrAinPaiNt

03-15-2006, 05:22 PM

Hey man, all I'm asking for is a bit of respect. If the Cowboys had signed all the above listed players and shown it to me, I'd say "Yep, thats a good group there, no doubt." How can you see any other way around it?

Because when it comes to the Skins vs Cowboys rivalry you will have that.

Just like on Skins boards when there was talk that the CBA might not get done I recall hearing that someone was saying how they, the skins, would be better off if they did not sign any name FAs.

Yet that has changed.

Just like how Brandon Nobel was a nobody when he was here but the minute he signed there he was the perfect "Blocker Magnet" and would make all the difference.

It's homeristic rants and raves and to expect anything else is kind of silly.

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 05:22 PM

What Redskins fans don't realize: we don't care.

Your team will always be the inferior team- your team started the rivalry and Dallas pretty much dominated it. Dallas came into the league as an expansion club and quite quickly we were routinely beating the Redskins enough to where the Cowboys have close to a 20 victory margin in the series. Dallas has always been a more popular team, been more successful, won more division titles, playoff games, and Super Bowls, had better TV shows about our city and Dallas is a better city than the craphole of D.C.

Dallas fans don't feel the need to run to Redskin boards and brag about some other teams garbage that our team signed in free agency. It's this little sisters of the poor mentality and a gross inferiority complex that has earned your fan base its low reputation around the league as being ignorant and braggardly when there is nothing to back it up or show for it.

What a bitter little man you must be.

Your team only exceeds in popularity when you're winning superbowls. In the 90's, cowboy stuff was everywhere. Now I'm not calling everyone on here a bandwagon hopper, because I know thats not the case, but you have to admit (and I know you won't) that there are a lot of people that hopped on the Cowboys bandwagon and hopped off when the going got rough.

Also, go over to ES, there's a bunch of cowboys fans on there.

(Cue to the predictable joke about Art from kingwhicker...)

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 05:26 PM

Because when it comes to the Skins vs Cowboys rivalry you will have that.

Just like on Skins boards when there was talk that the CBA might not get done I recall hearing that someone was saying how they, the skins, would be better off if they did not sign any name FAs.

Yet that has changed.

Just like how Brandon Nobel was a nobody when he was here but the minute he signed there he was the perfect "Blocker Magnet" and would make all the difference.

It's homeristic rants and raves and to expect anything else is kind of silly.

I'm not gonna dispute that Noble didn't work out. We were excited to have him, but he couldn't stay healthy, so be it.

All I'm saying is that some people can't man up enough to admit when another team in the rivalry has done something good.

kingwhicker

03-15-2006, 05:26 PM

What a bitter little man you must be.

Your team only exceeds in popularity when you're winning superbowls. In the 90's, cowboy stuff was everywhere. Now I'm not calling everyone on here a bandwagon hopper, because I know thats not the case, but you have to admit (and I know you won't) that there are a lot of people that hopped on the Cowboys bandwagon and hopped off when the going got rough.

Also, go over to ES, there's a bunch of cowboys fans on there.

(Cue to the predictable joke about Art from kingwhicker...)

Why would I be bitter? Just because I laid out the facts? And as for bandwagoners, I sure saw a lot of moth riddled 1991 Redskins gear during your great playoff run last year.

AtlCB

03-15-2006, 05:26 PM

What a bitter little man you must be.

Your team only exceeds in popularity when you're winning superbowls. In the 90's, cowboy stuff was everywhere. Now I'm not calling everyone on here a bandwagon hopper, because I know thats not the case, but you have to admit (and I know you won't) that there are a lot of people that hopped on the Cowboys bandwagon and hopped off when the going got rough.

Also, go over to ES, there's a bunch of cowboys fans on there.

(Cue to the predictable joke about Art from kingwhicker...)

Cowboys stuff is still all over the place here in Atlanta. You will not find many Redskins around here.

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 05:29 PM

Why would I be bitter? Just because I laid out the facts? And as for bandwagoners, I sure saw a lot of moth riddled 1991 Redskins gear during your great playoff run last year.

I didn't see much moth riddled 1991 stuff last year. Oh well. At least we're not proclaiming ourselves to be "America's Team."

BrAinPaiNt

03-15-2006, 05:32 PM

I'm not gonna dispute that Noble didn't work out. We were excited to have him, but he couldn't stay healthy, so be it.

All I'm saying is that some people can't man up enough to admit when another team in the rivalry has done something good.

Then you don't look hard enough.

I have already been on record saying some of your signings are nice.

Then again in the middle of the chaos right now, when some newbie (to this board) skins come over to stir things up...you will have that.

Just lucky some of you are still around as I am sure we are one of the better boards in letting rival fans come in.

kingwhicker

03-15-2006, 05:33 PM

At least we're not proclaiming ourselves to be "America's Team."

Yeah, even though the team is based in the nation's capital. :rolleyes:

5Stars

03-15-2006, 05:35 PM

I didn't see much moth riddled 1991 stuff last year. Oh well. At least we're not proclaiming ourselves to be "America's Team."

That's because YOUR NOT America's Team, little man!

The DALLAS COWBOYS are America's Team...and don't forget it!

As far as you "just want a little respect"... :laugh2:

So, does Lil Snyder, that's why he's trying to buy it all up....

Respect is earned, you don't try and buy it! It does not work that way! You cannot buy every "name" in the league and try and win! IT DOES NOT WORK!

The only thing Lil Snyder is doing is buying fans like you! :lmao2:

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 05:35 PM

Then you don't look hard enough.

I have already been on record saying some of your signings are nice.

Then again in the middle of the chaos right now, when some newbie (to this board) skins come over to stir things up...you will have that.

Just lucky some of you are still around as I am sure we are one of the better boards in letting rival fans come in.

This board is nice. When not hearing Gibbs, Snyder, FA, Cap, Taylor, jokes that people think are original and hysterical, it's a good place to talk football.

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 05:37 PM

Yeah, even though the team is based in the nation's capital. :rolleyes:

Maybe its just that we feel that a team dubbed with such a lofty moniker shouldn't also be well known for cocaine use and other devient behavior. But it's all good, you wear the nickname well and do America proud.

5Stars

03-15-2006, 05:37 PM

This board is nice. When not hearing Gibbs, Snyder, FA, Cap, Taylor, jokes that people think are original and hysterical, it's a good place to talk football.

:laugh1: :laugh1: :laugh2: :laugh2:

:lmao2: :lmao2:

Yeah, when nobody says bad things about the RedStinks? It's all good?

:lmao2: :lmao2:

kingwhicker

03-15-2006, 05:42 PM

:laugh1: :laugh1: :laugh2: :laugh2:

:lmao2: :lmao2:

Yeah, when nobody says bad things about the RedStinks? It's all good?

:lmao2: :lmao2:

Cut him some slack, he's never actually seen the Skins win the Super Bowl. It was past his bedtime back in 1991, but he WAS snuggled up with his Skins teddy bear while wearing his Redskins pajamas and tucked in under his Skins bed sheets.

BrAinPaiNt

03-15-2006, 05:47 PM

WoodysGirl

03-15-2006, 05:47 PM

Maybe its just that we feel that a team dubbed with such a lofty moniker shouldn't also be well known for cocaine use and other devient behavior. But it's all good, you wear the nickname well and do America proud.Oh c'mon now... the skins have their fair share of dark horses too...past (Dexter Manley) and present (Sean Taylor). So mentioning stuff like Irvin's and other Cowboys behavior really lessens your argument for fair skins discussion and respect.

Like brain said, this is a COWBOYS board, you're not gonna get cheers for every signing you get. Just the way it is.

kingwhicker

03-15-2006, 05:49 PM

You know there is a very simple solution.

If you don't like what is written here, don't come here and read it.

But, how could we live without his coolness and bravado?!?

Crickets.

:jerk:

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 05:52 PM

You know there is a very simple solution.

If you don't like what is written here, don't come here and read it.

Hey man, like I said, I like it here. SOME people can't lay off the 5th grade cracks. But it's all good.

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 05:59 PM

Oh c'mon now... the skins have their fair share of dark horses too...past (Dexter Manley) and present (Sean Taylor). So mentioning stuff like Irvin's and other Cowboys behavior really lessens your argument for fair skins discussion and respect.

Like brain said, this is a COWBOYS board, you're not gonna get cheers for every signing you get. Just the way it is.

Yep, we do, but not to the extent of....Quincy Carter, Shante Carver, Cory Fleming, Darren Hambrick, Bob Hayes, Hollywood Henderson, Clayton Holmes, Michael Irvin, Leon Lett, Harvey Martin, Nate Newton, Alonzo Spellman, Mark Stepnoski, Mark Tunei, Dimitrius Underwood, Erik Williams, Sherman Williams and Pepi Zellner. And I know I'm missing a few.

Cowboy fans love to point and laugh at Dexter Manley, but the Cowboys could almost field an entire team.

All I'm saying is that it's hard to not have a Skins/Cowboys convo here without someone bringing Sean Taylor jokes to the table. And it's not like I won't reply back with Cowboy cracks, either. Some people, like Brain, seem to have an idea of what its about though. I haven't been here long, but it seems like 5stars and king whisker don't bring much to the table except bashing the Redskins, which, to their credit, they've made an art form out of.

I'm not expecting to get cheers for every signing we get. As a Redskins fan I've raised my eyebrows at Randle El, and Archuleta (especially Archuleta). However, the list that started this thread contains some good football players who have done good things for us that ardent Cowboy fans should recognize.

BrAinPaiNt

03-15-2006, 06:04 PM

Ever heard the story about the king sitting on the beach thinking he can command the tide from coming in.

Are you trying to play the part of the king?

WoodysGirl

03-15-2006, 06:09 PM

Yep, we do, but not to the extent of....Quincy Carter, Shante Carver, Cory Fleming, Darren Hambrick, Bob Hayes, Hollywood Henderson, Clayton Holmes, Michael Irvin, Leon Lett, Harvey Martin, Nate Newton, Alonzo Spellman, Mark Stepnoski, Mark Tunei, Dimitrius Underwood, Erik Williams, Sherman Williams and Pepi Zellner. And I know I'm missing a few.

Cowboy fans love to point and laugh at Dexter Manley, but the Cowboys could almost field an entire team. I'll be the first to admit I don't know enough about Skins history to point out every knucklehead that's been on your team. But I'll say this, that list doesn't field a team. And I'll also add whenever someone says America's Team, skins fans bring up all the OLD boys transgressions. Name a current player Cowboy with CURRENT issues. Bet u can't find any. There comes a time when you gotta bring something new.

I'm not expecting to get cheers for every signing we get. As a Redskins fan I've raised my eyebrows at Randle El, and Archuleta (especially Archuleta). However, the list that started this thread contains some good football players who have done good things for us that ardent Cowboy fans should recognize.Why? Not even being funny. No one on this board is obligated to give the skins their due on anything that goes on in Skinsland. Some of us will say whether they feel a signing is good or not, but you can't get mad that many don't. To lead the charge to get Cowboy fans to give Skins moves any kinda respect is a lost cause, IMO. Remember where your visiting.

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 06:22 PM

I'll be the first to admit I don't know enough about Skins history to point out every knucklehead that's been on your team. But I'll say this, that list doesn't field a team. And I'll also add whenever someone says America's Team, skins fans bring up all the OLD boys transgressions. Name a current player Cowboy with CURRENT issues. Bet u can't find any. There comes a time when you gotta bring something new.

Which is exactly why I'm sure cowboys fans everywhere collectively wet their pants when Taylors incident came to light. More fodder, eh? ;) First time in a long time the Redskins have had a bad boy on the roster.

I agree you gotta bring something new, so why don't cowboys fans on here stop with the Snyder and salary cap jokes? That'd be like me telling Cowboys jokes (3 Cowboys in a car, who's driving?....The police) and acting like I'm the most original guy on the planet.

Why? Not even being funny. No one on this board is obligated to give the skins their due on anything that goes on in Skinsland. Some of us will say whether they feel a signing is good or not, but you can't get mad that many don't. To lead the charge to get Cowboy fans to give Skins moves any kinda respect is a lost cause, IMO. Remember where your visiting.

Why? Cause when someone plays good football, people should be able to man up admit that they do, no matter what uniform they wear, thats what I'm trying to say. DeMarcus Ware? He's an awesome football player, I just hate the fact that he wears a Cowboys jersey.

I agree, no ones obligated, but if someone on the Cowboys comes out and kicks ***, I don't have a problem admitting that they do.

StanleySpadowski

03-15-2006, 06:32 PM

I've found that the easiest way to shut these trolls up when they start bloviating on past Cowboys' troubles is to play on their pervasive homophobia.

Point them towards articles such as www.baltimoreoutloud.com/January 23 HTML/other_stuff.html:eek:

It usually takes them a few weeks before they show their pointy little heads again.

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 06:41 PM

kingwhicker

03-15-2006, 06:43 PM

Seargeant Gunnery Hartman

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 06:48 PM

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman

Whoops, my bad. you're right.

Also wanted to ask, who is that in your avatar?

kingwhicker

03-15-2006, 06:54 PM

Whoops, my bad. you're right.

Also wanted to ask, who is that in your avatar?

His name is Butte (though some call him Junior, Sr.)- he looks like your typical high school athletic director, coach, principal.

trickblue

03-15-2006, 06:57 PM

Maybe its just that we feel that a team dubbed with such a lofty moniker shouldn't also be well known for cocaine use and other devient behavior. But it's all good, you wear the nickname well and do America proud.

OK young fella... no malice intended here, but I'm gonna give you a little history lesson... a history lesson about your beloved skins. Instead of throwing the same old rhetoric around, I would suggest you seek out the own skeletons in your past history.

Let's start with your name "Redskins". Many Native Americans find it offensive.

Next, let's go with your former owner George Preston Marshall. Here is a little quip about him:
"We'll start signing Negroes," Washington Redskins owner George Preston Marshall once quipped, "when the Harlem Globetrotters start signing whites."

In 1961, the Redskins were the only team in professional football without a black player. In fact, in the 25-year history of the franchise, no black had ever played for George Marshall. Sam Lacy, the gifted black sportswriter for the Baltimore Afro-American, called the Redskins football's "lone wolf in lily-whiteism." Their owner was "the one operator in the whole structure of major-league sports who has openly flouted his distaste for tan athletes."
Now... let's look at some of your players and their brushes with the law. A couple of these players have played for both of us.
Sean Taylor – Several infractions
Dexter Manly – Possession of Drugs
Mike Sellers - DWI
John Riggins - PI
Timmy Smith – Drug Trafficing
Deion Sanders - Trespassing
Billy Kilmer – DWI
Kevin Ware – PI
George Stark - Drug Possession
Darrell Russell - Drugs
Kevin Ware - Public Intoxication
Lavernius Coles - Shoplifting, fraud
Jermaine Haley – DWI
Tony Peters - conspiring to sell 4 pounds of cocaine.
Fred Smoot - Lewd And Lascivious Behavior
Ozzie Clay - Fraud
Barry Wilburn - Robbery
Kenyatta Jones - Felony Assault
Dana Stubblefield – Assualted his wife
Marlene Cooke (wife of Jack Kent Cooke) – DWI
Ray McDonald – arrested for having sex with another man in a public park.

You also have two more of infamy:
Dave Kopay
Jerry Smith
If you aren't sure what their claim to fame is see Ray McDonald above...

Pretending that Dallas is the only team with players of questionable character is ludicrous. Every team has had players with problems. "Our felon is better than your felon" is not a viable excuse either.

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 07:22 PM

OK young fella... no malice intended here, but I'm gonna give you a little history lesson... a history lesson about your beloved skins. Instead of throwing the same old rhetoric around, I would suggest you seek out the own skeletons in your past history.

Let's start with your name "Redskins". Many Native Americans find it offensive.

Next, let's go with your former owner George Preston Marshall. Here is a little quip about him:
"We'll start signing Negroes," Washington Redskins owner George Preston Marshall once quipped, "when the Harlem Globetrotters start signing whites."

In 1961, the Redskins were the only team in professional football without a black player. In fact, in the 25-year history of the franchise, no black had ever played for George Marshall. Sam Lacy, the gifted black sportswriter for the Baltimore Afro-American, called the Redskins football's "lone wolf in lily-whiteism." Their owner was "the one operator in the whole structure of major-league sports who has openly flouted his distaste for tan athletes."
Now... let's look at some of your players and their brushes with the law. A couple of these players have played for both of us.
Sean Taylor – Several infractions
Dexter Manly – Possession of Drugs
Mike Sellers - DWI
John Riggins - PI
Timmy Smith – Drug Trafficing
Deion Sanders - Trespassing
Billy Kilmer – DWI
Kevin Ware – PI
George Stark - Drug Possession
Darrell Russell - Drugs
Kevin Ware - Public Intoxication
Lavernius Coles - Shoplifting, fraud
Jermaine Haley – DWI
Tony Peters - conspiring to sell 4 pounds of cocaine.
Fred Smoot - Lewd And Lascivious Behavior
Ozzie Clay - Fraud
Barry Wilburn - Robbery
Kenyatta Jones - Felony Assault
Dana Stubblefield – Assualted his wife
Marlene Cooke (wife of Jack Kent Cooke) – DWI
Ray McDonald – arrested for having sex with another man in a public park.

You also have two more of infamy:
Dave Kopay
Jerry Smith
If you aren't sure what their claim to fame is see Ray McDonald above...

Pretending that Dallas is the only team with players of questionable character is ludicrous. Every team has had players with problems. "Our felon is better than your felon" is not a viable excuse either.

K, first of all, you're bringing peoples sexual preferences to the table, which speaks volumes. Do you feel better about yourself lumping gay people with drug addicts and felons?

I'm not going to bring into the equation that a fair amount of the players you listed weren't affiliated with the team at the time of their run ins with the law. While I see where you're coming from, I'm pretty sure all the players I listed had their run ins while actually representing the Cowboys. In other words, I don't care that Fred Smoot got caught for lewd behavior while representing the Vikings. He's not embarrasing the Redskins franchise.

Ah, yes, the Redskins name. http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040925-121238-9407r.htm Not to demean the Native Americans that DO find it to be an insulting name, but the people that make the most fuss about this name are limousine liberals and college professors. White guilt.

As for George Preston Marshall...indefensible. Not gonna try to defend him.

trickblue

03-15-2006, 07:44 PM

K, first of all, you're bringing peoples sexual preferences to the table, which speaks volumes. Do you feel better about yourself lumping gay people with drug addicts and felons?

I'm not going to bring into the equation that a fair amount of the players you listed weren't affiliated with the team at the time of their run ins with the law. While I see where you're coming from, I'm pretty sure all the players I listed had their run ins while actually representing the Cowboys. In other words, I don't care that Fred Smoot got caught for lewd behavior while representing the Vikings. He's not embarrasing the Redskins franchise.

Ah, yes, the Redskins name. http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040925-121238-9407r.htm Not to demean the Native Americans that DO find it to be an insulting name, but the people that make the most fuss about this name are limousine liberals and college professors. White guilt.

As for George Preston Marshall...indefensible. Not gonna try to defend him.

First of all... one of those with the other sexual preference was arrested... the reason they are brought forth is that some of your beloved fellow fans love to come over here and call us "Brokeback Cowboys"... don't take the high road and pretend you haven't heard it on extremeskins and other places. Now you want to circumvent the issue and try to sit in a burgundy and gold glass house on the hill judging the intent of my reference...

Yes, I do know the history of your name, personally I DON'T find it offensive given the context, but it nonetheless IS an issue with many...

You and your fellow cronie fans have gone on for years about the Cowboys and problems with their players... lumping in those with mental illness in the mix (Alonzo Spellman, Dimitrius Underwood) as well as those that got in trouble after they were with the Cowboys.

YOU are the one that brought up the subject and you challenged the very fabric that our team was founded on, yet deny your own history which was founded in racism and hatred. You don't have to condone it, but you can't deny it.

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 07:53 PM

First of all... one of those with the other sexual preference was arrested... the reason they are brought forth is that some of your beloved fellow fans love to come over here and call us "Brokeback Cowboys"... don't take the high road and pretend you haven't heard it on extremeskins and other places. Now you want to circumvent the issue and try to sit in a burgundy and gold glass house on the hill judging the intent of my reference...

Yes, I do know the history of your name, personally I DON'T find it offensive given the context, but it nonetheless IS an issue with many...

You and your fellow cronie fans have gone on for years about the Cowboys and problems with their players... lumping in those with mental illness in the mix (Alonzo Spellman, Dimitrius Underwood) as well as those that got in trouble after they were with the Cowboys.

YOU are the one that brought up the subject and you challenged the very fabric that our team was founded on, yet deny your own history which was founded in racism and hatred. You don't have to condone it, but you can't deny it.

I've heard the Brokeback Cowboy thing, personally I think it's a pretty dumb attempt at humor. It's not that funny.

Anyway, I'll let you win, this is your board. Done and done.

EDIT: I will say, its not just Redskins fans making Cowboy jokes. Also, does North Dallas Forty ring a bell?

kingwhicker

03-15-2006, 07:53 PM

"I wish I knew how to quit you?" :D

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 08:03 PM

"I wish I knew how to quit you?" :D

Isn't that what Keyshawn is saying to Parcells?

;) I keed I keed.

trickblue

03-15-2006, 08:26 PM

I've heard the Brokeback Cowboy thing, personally I think it's a pretty dumb attempt at humor. It's not that funny.

Anyway, I'll let you win, this is your board. Done and done.

EDIT: I will say, its not just Redskins fans making Cowboy jokes. Also, does North Dallas Forty ring a bell?

I'm not trying to "win" anything...

The fact of the matter is that no one wins when players for our teams get into trouble with the law. I was merely pointing out that we ALL have that problem, and probably to a greater extent than we all know.

The thing that irritates us is that when a skins fan is backed into a corner, they always go that route, like it somehow invalidates our SB wins. Does the fact that 2 out of 3 of your Lombardi's came in strike-shortened years invalidate yours?

As for Peter Gent (the author of North Dallas 40), that book has highly sensationalized and again, are you going to pretend none of your players in that era did similar things? Do you think Don Meredith had anything on Sonny Jurgenson or Billy Kilmer?

I will be honest. Redskin fans cast more stones about the impurity of other teams more than any other team I know. It is why Cowboy fans get defensive when you come around. You constantly acuse us of being bandwagon fans, which is also a joke. You regulalry have less than 10% of your membership logged in at ES while we regulalry have almost half. Tell me who the bandwagon fans are? You call us , Cryboys, Cowgirls Brokeback and many other names. Has one person in this thread called you Foreskins? Have they?

You act surprised when you are met with opposition when the very tone of your thread is that "You guys are wrong again, idiots"...

The haughty attitude that your fans project is hardly earned by your past record and accomplishments in regard to ours...

I can assure you, you guys are treated MUCH better over here than we are over there as a whole.

Way 'nuff

03-15-2006, 08:58 PM

I'm not trying to "win" anything...

The fact of the matter is that no one wins when players for our teams get into trouble with the law. I was merely pointing out that we ALL have that problem, and probably to a greater extent than we all know.

The thing that irritates us is that when a skins fan is backed into a corner, they always go that route, like it somehow invalidates our SB wins. Does the fact that 2 out of 3 of your Lombardi's came in strike-shortened years invalidate yours?

As for Peter Gent (the author of North Dallas 40), that book has highly sensationalized and again, are you going to pretend none of your players in that era did similar things? Do you think Don Meredith had anything on Sonny Jurgenson or Billy Kilmer?

I will be honest. Redskin fans cast more stones about the impurity of other teams more than any other team I know. It is why Cowboy fans get defensive when you come around. You constantly acuse us of being bandwagon fans, which is also a joke. You regulalry have less than 10% of your membership logged in at ES while we regulalry have almost half. Tell me who the bandwagon fans are? You call us , Cryboys, Cowgirls Brokeback and many other names. Has one person in this thread called you Foreskins? Have they?

You act surprised when you are met with opposition when the very tone of your thread is that "You guys are wrong again, idiots"...

The haughty attitude that your fans project is hardly earned by your past record and accomplishments in regard to ours...

I can assure you, you guys are treated MUCH better over here than we are over there as a whole.

Ah, finally. Good decent conversation without any namecalling.

First of all I'm not a big time ES member. I wish people would stop automatically assuming that if you're a Redskins fan, you're part of ES. I've been on there, posted a few times, but it's not as good as it used to be, before the merge. It used to be a lot like this site, a good group of core football fans having good discussions. Now, I look around and don't recognize anyone anymore. Oh well.

And, yeah, I've been called Ratskins, Foreskins or something equally as clever as Cowpoke or Brokeback like that here, but whatever, it's in good fun.

I don't like bringing up the past, but when people bring up Sean Taylor and act like he's the baddest most thuggish MF-er around....A case of the pot calling the kettle black, no? I'll understand if the conversation is about criminal pasts of football players but it's dumb*** comments out of leftfield like "Yeah,your season last year was a fluke and this is why....and, oh yeah, your safteys going to Jail, hahaha!" that chaps my ***. Really, how old are we here?

But, being the irritable bastid I am, I'll fight back. So, my apologies for dragging out the criminal history of the Cowboys.

I'm not saying that Redskins players didn't do anything like that in that era, but there's a reason it isn't "Southeast DC Forty." Here's all I want you to admit: That while most teams have had players that have run ins with the law, Dallas has had more than anyone and therefore are known for it. The stats don't lie. Thats not me being a Redskins fan trying to attack you, thats just me trying to get you to admit to facts.

I'm not accusing anyone here of being a bandwagoning fan. IMO, if you're taking the time to post on a fanboard, you're not a bandwagoner. I will accuse others who used to be Cowboys fans when you were winning superbowls and girls who "like the cowboys because Aikman was hot" and can't name 3 people on the current roster, bandwagoners. Is that not fair?

trickblue

03-15-2006, 09:39 PM

Ah, finally. Good decent conversation without any namecalling.
You will find I rarely take part in namecalling or one-upping... what I do do is defend with integrity and facts what I know to be true...

I don't like bringing up the past, but when people bring up Sean Taylor and act like he's the baddest most thuggish MF-er around....A case of the pot calling the kettle black, no? I'll understand if the conversation is about criminal pasts of football players but it's dumb*** comments out of leftfield like "Yeah,your season last year was a fluke and this is why....and, oh yeah, your safteys going to Jail, hahaha!" that chaps my ***. Really, how old are we here?
But you did bring up the past...

I will NOT admit that the Cowboys have more problems than any other teams, because it simply is not true...

I once got into a peeing match with another skins fan over the same thing and when the votes were totalled, we had one more player...

It is a weak argument and not even valid. Again, I ask you if 2 of your Lomabardi's are tainted by strike-shortened years?

But, being the irritable bastid I am, I'll fight back. So, my apologies for dragging out the criminal history of the Cowboys.

I'm not saying that Redskins players didn't do anything like that in that era, but there's a reason it isn't "Southeast DC Forty." Here's all I want you to admit: That while most teams have had players that have run ins with the law, Dallas has had more than anyone and therefore are known for it. The stats don't lie. Thats not me being a Redskins fan trying to attack you, thats just me trying to get you to admit to facts.
The reason there is a North Dallas Forty is because Peter Gent played for this team and wrote a sensationalized account. The reason it is so popular was because the team itself was popular. Again, Dave Kopay wrote his own book. Is it a reflection on your team? Do you think it would not be sensationalized if it was put in movie form? Do you believe all movies to be true? Do you believe works of non-fiction contain no embellishments for sensationalism?

I'm not accusing anyone here of being a bandwagoning fan. IMO, if you're taking the time to post on a fanboard, you're not a bandwagoner. I will accuse others who used to be Cowboys fans when you were winning superbowls and girls who "like the cowboys because Aikman was hot" and can't name 3 people on the current roster, bandwagoners. Is that not fair?
Again... it is your experience... I regularly school Redskin fans I know on their own team history...

Every year the SB winner has fans all over the country wearing their jersey "yeah... my Patriots won it all"... the same idiots are wearing Stealers jerseys this year and saying "My boys... Steelers... WOOP"... Next year they will be wearing Cowboy jerseys... "America's Team... yeeaahhh baby"... ;)

If you want the honest truth, it is a societal issue... young people today don't stick with one team as they always want to be associated with a winner. That is not life. The reality is that rooting for one team life-long gives a good perspective on life and how it will be. Sometimes you lose, sometimes you win. There will be good times and bad times. There will be highs and lows. There will be championships for some and not for others. Perseverance pays off, hard work pays off. You can't change teams every year and succeed in life.

Way 'nuff

03-16-2006, 06:58 AM

I agree, the argument is childish, but whatever. I don't want to have to bring up the past until someone brings up ST or Dexter Manley or something. Why does it even enter conversation? Both teams have had issues with it in the past, does it warrant mentioning when having civil conversations about the teams?

And no, the trophies aren't tainted by the strike.

While Peter Gent played for Dallas, he didn't HAVE to rename the team in the book after Dallas. I'm sure he did it for a number of reasons, probably to make the team sound legit, most of all. Regardless, the stigma that Dallas has had a bunch of troublemakers might only be surpassed by the Raiders. Why does this stigma exist? How come the Chargers and the Lions don't have the same reputation as these two teams?

Good take on the social issue, I never thought of it that way before.