Early Predictions for 2006

[The30YardSlant]

- The Miami Dolphins will win the AFC East

- Drew Brees will completely flop in New Orleans

- The Washington Redskins will finish last in the NFC East

- Plaxico Burress will be a household name at season's end

- The Cleveland Browns will be a playoff contender

- Phillip Rivers will quickly become a top flight QB

- Odell Thurman will become the best LB no one's ever heard of

- Julian Peterson will quickly become the worst investment in the history of pro sports (56 million dollars?)

- Not one single division winner from a year ago will win that division this year

[rdsknsbaby]

-dolphins wont win the afc title with the colts, KC Chargers, broncos, steelers, and the bengals.

-drew will do well

-you are insane if you honestly thing the skins will finish last in the east.

-burress wont be a household name but seasons end.... by the 2008 season end maybe

-youre insane

- yes rivers will do well

- thurmans good... but not that good

-no

-youre wrong

[SkinsFan26]

- The Washington Redskins will finish last in the NFC East

- Plaxico Burress will be a household name at season's end

- Not one single division winner from a year ago will win that division this year

NO, first place

Never, too much attitude

Seattle, Denver, Indy win their divisions without question

[KingTuna]

- The Miami Dolphins will win the AFC East

- Drew Brees will completely flop in New Orleans

- The Washington Redskins will finish last in the NFC East

- Plaxico Burress will be a household name at season's end

- The Cleveland Browns will be a playoff contender

- Phillip Rivers will quickly become a top flight QB

- Odell Thurman will become the best LB no one's ever heard of

- Julian Peterson will quickly become the worst investment in the history of pro sports (56 million dollars?)

- Not one single division winner from a year ago will win that division this year

You forgot the MOST important one....COWBOYS WIN THE SUPERBOWL!!

:starspin

[The30YardSlant]

-dolphins wont win the afc title with the colts, KC Chargers, broncos, steelers, and the bengals.

-drew will do well

-you are insane if you honestly thing the skins will finish last in the east.

-burress wont be a household name but seasons end.... by the 2008 season end maybe

-youre insane

- yes rivers will do well

- thurmans good... but not that good

-no

-youre wrong

First of all, learn to read. I said Miami would win the East, NOT the whole AFC.

It's becoming clearer with every post that you enjoy conflict and simply disagree with everything any poster says about anything.

[The30YardSlant]

NO, first place

Never, too much attitude

Seattle, Denver, Indy win their divisions without question

No, last place. New York and Dallas are simply better top to bottom, and Philadelphia will surprise some people. History has proven FA spending sprees never work.

Burress has the talent of an elite WR, it will finally come together when Eli gets it.

Arizona, Kansas City, and Jacksonville will win those divisions

[rdsknsbaby]

No, last place. New York and Dallas are simply better top to bottom, and Philadelphia will surprise some people. History has proven FA spending sprees never work.

Burress has the talent of an elite WR, it will finally come together when Eli gets it.

Arizona, Kansas City, and Jacksonville will win those divisions

ny and dallas are not better.... who went farthest in the playoffs again???

[rdsknsbaby]

First of all, learn to read. I said Miami would win the East, NOT the whole AFC.

It's becoming clearer with every post that you enjoy conflict and simply disagree with everything any poster says about anything.

sorry i didnt see the east at the end... and no i dont like conflict i just call out someone when they make stupid comments... like most of the ones you made... again apologies on the east thing

[rdsknsbaby]

No, last place. New York and Dallas are simply better top to bottom, and Philadelphia will surprise some people. History has proven FA spending sprees never work.

Burress has the talent of an elite WR, it will finally come together when Eli gets it.

Arizona, Kansas City, and Jacksonville will win those divisions

exactly... when eli gets it which is why i said 2008

[Cochese]

ny and dallas are not better.... who went farthest in the playoffs again???

Yes. Who cares? Lets bend over to a team that gave over 200 rushing yards to us the way you pathetic schmucks did.

[The30YardSlant]

ny and dallas are not better.... who went farthest in the playoffs again???

Last season has no bearing on this season, especially considering Dallas lost 3 games SOLELY because our FG kicking sucked and Washington needed 3 miracles to make the playoffs.

Dallas and New York also have first round picks, Washington doesnt. Dallas and New York both have better QBs than Washington, Dallas and New York both have signed FAs that fit their team, not FAs that make headlines like Washington. Randle El is barely even a WR, Brandon Llyod couldnt catch a cold walking naked through Alaska, and Adam Archuleta is the worst starting coverage safety in football, and that's saying something from a team that started Keith Davis last year.

[Bledsoe4MVP]

- Drew Bledsoe wins league MVP award after passing for 4200+ yards 30 TD's including hooking up with TO for over 1400+ yards

- Bledsoe hoists the lombardi trophy as chants of 'Dreeeeeew' echo throughout the crowd, and during the post game interview he emphatically yell's "HOW BOUT THEM COWBOYS"!!!

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

[rdsknsbaby]

Last season has no bearing on this season, especially considering Dallas lost 3 games SOLELY because our FG kicking sucked and Washington needed 3 miracles to make the playoffs.

Dallas and New York also have first round picks, Washington doesnt. Dallas and New York both have better QBs than Washington, Dallas and New York both have signed FAs that fit their team, not FAs that make headlines like Washington. Randle El is barely even a WR, Brandon Llyod couldnt catch a cold walking naked through Alaska, and Adam Archuleta is the worst starting coverage safety in football, and that's saying something from a team that started Keith Davis last year.

first round picks are great when you have smart people drafting the players.

and i personally put both of our qbs on the same level... but as soon as campbell takes over it will be pretty damn sweet..... and cmon its eli manning... give him another year or 2 and maybe hell amount to something. oh and look at lloyds highlight reel... its pretty good, and yes he does need to work on catching the easy ones... but who cares.

[The30YardSlant]

first round picks are great when you have smart people drafting the players.

and i personally put both of our qbs on the same level... but as soon as campbell takes over it will be pretty damn sweet..... and cmon its eli manning... give him another year or 2 and maybe hell amount to something. oh and look at lloyds highlight reel... its pretty good, and yes he does need to work on catching the easy ones... but who cares.

Dallas doesnt have smart people drafting players?

Dallas' last 3 first round picks:

Roy Williams (Top 3 safety in football)
Terence Newman (Top 10 CB)
DeMarcus Ware (2nd best defensive rookie in football last season)

And anyone who watched Campbell at Auburn knows that he is NOT a starting NFL QB. Cadillac Williams, Ronnie Brown and the best offensive line in CF made his career at Auburn.

[Bledsoe4MVP]

- The Miami Dolphins will win the AFC East

- Drew Brees will completely flop in New Orleans

- The Washington Redskins will finish last in the NFC East

- Plaxico Burress will be a household name at season's end

- The Cleveland Browns will be a playoff contender

- Phillip Rivers will quickly become a top flight QB

- Odell Thurman will become the best LB no one's ever heard of

- Julian Peterson will quickly become the worst investment in the history of pro sports (56 million dollars?)

- Not one single division winner from a year ago will win that division this year

I pretty much agree except:

1) Washington will finish 2nd or 3rd at worst.

2) Plaxico Burress is overrated, so is Manning and the giants

3) Chicago will run away with the NFC north again if the defense stays healthy, the steelers are still the team to beat in the afc north, seattle should also win a weak nfc west division by default, but watch out for the cards (finally).

[The30YardSlant]

I pretty much agree except:

1) Washington will finish 2nd or 3rd at worst.

2) Plaxico Burress is overrated, so is Manning and the giants

3) Chicago will run away with the NFC north again if the defense stays healthy, the steelers are still the team to beat in the afc north, seattle should also win a weak nfc west division by default, but watch out for the cards (finally).

Cincy won the North last season

[Bledsoe4MVP]

Cincy won the North last season

Oops my bad your right, obviously Pittsburgh was and still is the better team though. They beat them in cincy twice, especially when it mattered most in the playoffs.

[rdsknsbaby]

Dallas doesnt have smart people drafting players?

Dallas' last 3 first round picks:

Roy Williams (Top 3 safety in football)
Terence Newman (Top 10 CB)
DeMarcus Ware (2nd best defensive rookie in football last season)

And anyone who watched Campbell at Auburn knows that he is NOT a starting NFL QB. Cadillac Williams, Ronnie Brown and the best offensive line in CF made his career at Auburn.


roy william- hes no ST
newman- i personally dont like him
ware- he is fairly good

and i was KIDDING about not having smart people... i know you guys can pick some good players.

that's why campbell wont be starting this year... he will sit and learn from brunell and gibbs for another year... and then we let him loose.

[The30YardSlant]

roy william- hes no ST
newman- i personally dont like him
ware- he is fairly good

and i was KIDDING about not having smart people... i know you guys can pick some good players.

that's why campbell wont be starting this year... he will sit and learn from brunell and gibbs for another year... and then we let him loose.

No, Sean Taylor is no Roy Williams

Roy Williams = All-Pro

Sean Taylor = Jailbait

And I dont care if you like Newman, that doesnt change the fact that he is the best coverage CB in the NFC East

Campbell doesnt have anything to turn lose, he was an average college QB. THe man didnt even play as well as Quincy Carter in college.

[rdsknsbaby]

i will learn how to read when you learn how to spell...... we wont turn him lose... we will turn him LOOSE.

[The30YardSlant]

i will learn how to read when you learn how to spell...... we wont turn him lose... we will turn him LOOSE.

Grammar smack, the last resort of those who have nothing else to say

So the second time I hit the "o" button it didnt type, what are you, 12?

[rdsknsbaby]

no... i was just simply saying what you said to me earlier except i switched the wording around (yes i know a complete oxymoron)... i didnt read the last word of the first sentence on your post... sorry. cmon dude get a personality.

[rdsknsbaby]

Grammar smack, the last resort of those who have nothing else to say

So the second time I hit the "o" button it didnt type, what are you, 12?

oh i forgot to add... you forgot your period at the end of the first sentence.

[The30YardSlant]

no... i was just simply saying what you said to me earlier except i switched the wording around (yes i know a complete oxymoron)... i didnt read the last word of the first sentence on your post... sorry. cmon dude get a personality.

I'm gonna go with "Posts that don't make sense" for 1,000 Alex

[rdsknsbaby]

and thats todays Daily Double!!!!!

[The30YardSlant]

:banghead:

[dragon_mikal]

- The Miami Dolphins will win the AFC East

- Drew Brees will completely flop in New Orleans

- The Washington Redskins will finish last in the NFC East

- Plaxico Burress will be a household name at season's end

- The Cleveland Browns will be a playoff contender

- Phillip Rivers will quickly become a top flight QB

- Odell Thurman will become the best LB no one's ever heard of

- Julian Peterson will quickly become the worst investment in the history of pro sports (56 million dollars?)

- Not one single division winner from a year ago will win that division this year

- Possible.

- Unlikely. I feel he will do well and I hope he does well. I hope Sean does well, too.

- Possible. If Sean Taylor goes to the big house it becomes likely. Adam Archuleta is one of the weakest coverage safeties in the NFL.

- Not this year.

- I don't think so.

- Possible.

- Don't think so. Don't know the exact terms and conditions of the contract.

- Colts will win the AFC South. Seattle will win the NFC West.

[The30YardSlant]

- Possible.

- Unlikely. I feel he will do well and I hope he does well. I hope Sean does well, too.

- Possible. If Sean Taylor goes to the big house it becomes likely. Adam Archuleta is one of the weakest coverage safeties in the NFL.

- Not this year.

- I don't think so.

- Possible.

- Don't think so. Don't know the exact terms and conditions of the contract.

- Colts will win the AFC South. Seattle will win the NFC West.

The Seahwks gave him 56 million over 7 years

[dragon_mikal]

roy william- hes no ST
newman- i personally dont like him
ware- he is fairly good


You got that right. Roy Williams is twice the player and twice the man Sean "The Thug" Taylor will ever be. I personally hope ST becomes someone's ***** in the big house.

Newman is one of the best coverage corners in the NFL. Of course you don't like him.

Ware is fairly good and will get fairly better as his career moves forward.

Enjoy watching Adam "Toast" Archuleta getting burned over and over next year. Without ST back their to help him it will get ugly.

[dragon_mikal]

The Seahwks gave him 56 million over 7 years

Well he won't see all of the money.

That is a large chunk of change. Maybe he'll end up being worth it...who knows?

I hope he ends up being the biggest waste of money ever. I don't like the Seahawks or Mike Holmgren.

[cleverusername]

Sean Taylor = Jailbait


:lmao2:

[SkinsFan26]

No, Sean Taylor is no Roy Williams

Roy Williams = All-Pro

Sean Taylor = Jailbait

And I dont care if you like Newman, that doesnt change the fact that he is the best coverage CB in the NFC East

Campbell doesnt have anything to turn lose, he was an average college QB. THe man didnt even play as well as Quincy Carter in college.

Average college QBs do not win player of the year awards in the best football conference in America!

[The30YardSlant]

Average college QBs do not win player of the year awards in the best football conference in America!

1: The SEC is not the best conference in America, the ACC is

2: They do when they have 3 offensive superstars, the best O-Line and the best defense in America

[SkinsHokieFan]

1: The SEC is not the best conference in America, the ACC is

2: They do when they have 3 offensive superstars, the best O-Line and the best defense in America

I am an ACC guy but no way are we the best conference in America

Not with UNC, Wake Forest, UVA, UMD and Duke in it

The ACC is Miami, FSU and Virginia Tech, with a second tier of BC, NCSU, GT and Clemson

As for JC, I was at the Sugar Bowl when Auburn and VT played

VT stopped Caddaliac and Ronnie Brown that day, our D was punching that offense in the mouth

The key to that game? Jason Campbell being pure clutch. A big play was a 3rd and 17 in the 2nd quarter. The rush came, Campbell calmly slid in the pocket to avoid it, threw a strike 20 yards down field to get a first down and keep the drive alive

His TD pass in the early part of the 3rd quarter was as pin point accurate of a pass as you could get, becuase Jimmy Williams had that WR blanketed

Up until that game I thought little of Jason Campbell. But seeing him live in person go up against the best D in the nation in 2004 and come up with clutch plays, he showed me a lot that day

As for finishing last in the division, a team that went 5-1 in the divison last year is not going to suddenly flop, in particular when we kept 17 out of 22 starters and filled key spots at WR as well as O-line depth, and have the best coaching staff in the NFL (you will NOT find a deeper more talented coaching staff then we have unless you are completley biased against the Redskins guy)

Start by learning to cover Chris Cooley, then figure out if we will be last

[cleverusername]

ACC, SEC, I think the Big 12 surpasses them all.

[SkinsHokieFan]

ACC, SEC, I think the Big 12 surpasses them all.


Not with the likes of Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma St, and Missouri

I definitley put the SEC at the top, with the Big 10 next, then the Big 12, ACC, PAC-10, Big East

[Gibbs II]

I have concluded somethings from this thread.


Redskins dont really like Cowboys

and

Cowboys dont really like Redskins.

[BigDFan5]

roy william- hes no ST
newman- i personally dont like him
ware- he is fairly good

and i was KIDDING about not having smart people... i know you guys can pick some good players.

that's why campbell wont be starting this year... he will sit and learn from brunell and gibbs for another year... and then we let him loose.

You're right Roy is no ST. Roy is better

Newman who cares what you like he was the best cover corner in the NFL last year

Ware fairly good as in would be the best defensive front 7 guy on your team

[BigDFan5]

Average college QBs do not win player of the year awards in the best football conference in America!

Ryan Leaf and Jason White won alot of awards in college, it did them alot of good didnt it

[rdsknsbaby]

its not my team... its your team.

[Gibbs II]

Ryan Leaf and Jason White won alot of awards in college, it did them alot of good didnt it

It did Carson Palmer some good.

[BigDFan5]

It did Carson Palmer some good.


you can throw all your burgandy eggs in the Cambell basket if you like. I expect to see you here in a few years repenting and apoligizing for your mistakes.

Mentioning palmer and Cambell together is like me mentioning Henson and Palmer together makes no sense

[SkinsHokieFan]

Ryan Leaf and Jason White won alot of awards in college, it did them alot of good didnt it


To compare Jason Campbell to either of those 2 guys is a joke

Leaf had no head on his shoulders and got thrust into a bad situation

Jason White did not have anywhere near the physical tools that Jason Campbell has

Come back with a much better argument there littedfan

[BigDFan5]

To compare Jason Campbell to either of those 2 guys is a joke

Leaf had no head on his shoulders and got thrust into a bad situation

Jason White did not have anywhere near the physical tools that Jason Campbell has

Come back with a much better argument there littedfan


You talking college right> Jason White was FAR superior to Cambell in college. If you want to discuss facts let me know otherwise button your mouth .

littledfan how original did you think that up yourself or did you make a post on extreme asking people to elp you battle the mean Cowboys fans?

[cleverusername]

its not my team... its your team.

Your In a Dallas Cowboys Forum, thats funny.:lmao:

[SkinsHokieFan]

You talking college right> Jason White was FAR superior to Cambell in college. If you want to discuss facts let me know otherwise button your mouth .

littledfan how original did you think that up yourself or did you make a post on extreme asking people to elp you battle the mean Cowboys fans?


Danny Wuerfall also had FAR superior stats in college when compared to QB's that were in school at the same time he was. Jake Plummer was in his draft. Who had better college numbers and who has had a better pro career?

How many QB's did Jake Delhomme out perform in college that didn't do squat in the pros?

The list can go on and on with this one. Timmy Chang had much better stats then Ben Rothlisberger. Come on guy, you can do better then that nonsense

Let me know when you wish to discuss facts

[BigDFan5]

Danny Wuerfall also had FAR superior stats in college when compared to QB's that were in school at the same time he was. Jake Plummer was in his draft. Who had better college numbers and who has had a better pro career?

Let me know when you wish to discuss facts


Now your onto something then you agree college awards have nothing to do with the NFL and how a QB will perform therefore you agree that skinsfan26 is a complete and utter moron for even mentioning college awards like they mean something.


As for disucssing facts. One thing I learned on extremeskins is facts are not allowed when talking about the Redskins players.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Now your onto something then you agree college awards have nothing to do with the NFL and how a QB will perform therefore you agree that skinsfan26 is a complete and utter moron for even mentioning college awards like they mean something.


As for disucssing facts. One thing I learned on extremeskins is facts are not allowed when talking about the Redskins players.


So what our facts here with Jason Campbell and why he is destined to be a collasal bust?

Because he played in 4 different systems in college? Because he improved his senior year? Because he is now in a situation where he has been able to sit for a year, and will have a very good offensive line, a terrific WR corps, and a running game to back him up? That he is playing under one of the best OC's in the NFL, who was on a staff that turned Kurt Warner into a star?

Or is it those silver and blue glasses clouding your vision again?

[rdsknsbaby]

So what our facts here with Jason Campbell and why he is destined to be a collasal bust?

Because he played in 4 different systems in college? Because he improved his senior year? Because he is now in a situation where he has been able to sit for a year, and will have a very good offensive line, a terrific WR corps, and a running game to back him up? That he is playing under one of the best OC's in the NFL, who was on a staff that turned Kurt Warner into a star?

Or is it those silver and blue glasses clouding your vision again?

:bravo: i believe youre right ol' chap.

[DragonCowboy]

Man I really wish we visit Fed Ex week 1 and smack those posers right in the mouth.

Then all these Redskin trolls would be off this site for good, well, until another miracle comes about...

[silverbear]

So what our facts here with Jason Campbell and why he is destined to be a collasal bust?

Because he played in 4 different systems in college? Because he improved his senior year? Because he is now in a situation where he has been able to sit for a year, and will have a very good offensive line, a terrific WR corps, and a running game to back him up? That he is playing under one of the best OC's in the NFL, who was on a staff that turned Kurt Warner into a star?

Bringing in Todd Collins was a REAL vote of confidence... LOL...

I admire your confidence, but you might want to pause to consider that it just might be misguided... remember the last quarterback the Skins drafted late in the first round, their last "quarterback of the future"??

If you don't, here's a clue-- he's now playing for the Jets, and y'all got a SIXTH round pick for him... Patrick Ramsey didn't turn out to be all that, did he??

[silverbear]

:bravo: i believe youre right ol' chap.

You would... problem is, both of y'all are borderline delusional... :D

[BigDFan5]

So what our facts here with Jason Campbell and why he is destined to be a collasal bust?

Because he played in 4 different systems in college? Because he improved his senior year? Because he is now in a situation where he has been able to sit for a year, and will have a very good offensive line, a terrific WR corps, and a running game to back him up? That he is playing under one of the best OC's in the NFL, who was on a staff that turned Kurt Warner into a star?

Or is it those silver and blue glasses clouding your vision again?

Lets take this one by one

Fist please give me a link to where I said collasal bust thanks

4 different systems and was only above average in one of them

Improved senior year in yet another system if he could do it as a senior why not as a Jr?

Sit for a year this one makes 2. Does sitting automatically make you better? If so you agree that Henson will someday be a very good QB right?

good oline yes you do unfortunately Cambell is a backup again

Terrific??? a terrific WR core? are you kidding? Moss is terrific, El is a kick returner and Lloyd was average as a #1

Just because i can see clearly doesnt mean I have blue glasses on. Its a shame that you cant say anything of value. I mean come on your fellow skins fan makes himself look like an *** over here and you jump in to defend him even though you yourself do not believe college awards mean anything

[SkinsFan26]

1: The SEC is not the best conference in America, the ACC is

2: They do when they have 3 offensive superstars, the best O-Line and the best defense in America

1. I went to UVA, so I'd love to say that the ACC is the best conference. But in all honesty, the ACC only has 3 teams (FSU, Miami, VT) that can be counted on to be in the top 25.

The Big 10 and SEC are both better conferences from top to bottom.

2. I agree - 3 offensive SUPERSTARS! Cadillac, Ronnie, Campbell!

[SkinsFan26]

you can throw all your burgandy eggs in the Cambell basket if you like. I expect to see you here in a few years repenting and apoligizing for your mistakes.

Mentioning palmer and Cambell together is like me mentioning Henson and Palmer together makes no sense

What makes Cowboys fans say Jason Campbell will be bad? They have no justification for these types of statements. He was a great college quarterback on a top team in the top conference in the country. He's huge, fast, and has a cannon. Also, Gibbs hand picked this guy and traded up to get him. The last time he did that, the Skins drafted Cooley.

As a Redskins fan, I know there is no guarantee that he will be a superstar, but until he plays a full season I don't see how anyone can knock this guy. He has looked very strong in his preseason action - poised, accurate, mobile, and an arm with more zip than Ramsey.

Cowboys fans - give it a break! You only wish that you had a young, potentially great QB on your team's roster.

[SkinsFan26]

So what our facts here with Jason Campbell and why he is destined to be a collasal bust?

Because he played in 4 different systems in college? Because he improved his senior year? Because he is now in a situation where he has been able to sit for a year, and will have a very good offensive line, a terrific WR corps, and a running game to back him up? That he is playing under one of the best OC's in the NFL, who was on a staff that turned Kurt Warner into a star?

Or is it those silver and blue glasses clouding your vision again?

I've never agreed so whole-heartedly with a Hokie before in my life.

[SkinsFan26]

Bringing in Todd Collins was a REAL vote of confidence... LOL...

I admire your confidence, but you might want to pause to consider that it just might be misguided... remember the last quarterback the Skins drafted late in the first round, their last "quarterback of the future"??

If you don't, here's a clue-- he's now playing for the Jets, and y'all got a SIXTH round pick for him... Patrick Ramsey didn't turn out to be all that, did he??

Todd Collins - Inexpensive, veteran #3 QB with knowledge of Saunders' system. Horrible signing, I agree.

Ramsey - drafted by Spurrier to run the fun n gun. I normally agree with Spurrier and everything he wants to do with a football team, but I'm gonna go with the HOF coach on this one. Ramsey is mediocre and always will be. Gibbs abandoned ship on him as soon as he realized this (which was before his return to the sideline).

[silverbear]

Todd Collins - Inexpensive, veteran #3 QB with knowledge of Saunders' system. Horrible signing, I agree.

LOL... if Mark Brunell gets hurt this year, it will be Todd Collins coming into the game...

Ramsey - drafted by Spurrier to run the fun n gun.

Spurrier obviously had input on draft decisions, but he didn't make those calls... it was the Skins' personnel people who decided that Ramsey had the potential to be a long-time starting QB, and those are basically the same people who analyzed Jason Campbell... similarly, Gibbs had input on the Campbell decision, but he didn't make the final call, and that decision was based on the input provided by those personnel people...

Once again, the only response you Skins fans have is "Coach Joe likes him, so he must be good"... like Gibbs never made a mistake in his personnel decisions...

[The30YardSlant]

To compare Jason Campbell to either of those 2 guys is a joke

Leaf had no head on his shoulders and got thrust into a bad situation

Jason White did not have anywhere near the physical tools that Jason Campbell has

Come back with a much better argument there littedfan
RYan Leaf had so much more talent than Campbell it isnt even worth discussing. To this day I still think Ryan Leaf had more pure football talent than Peyton Manning, Manning is just a football genius while Leaf is a headcase and freaks out when he is under pressure.

[SkinsFan26]

Spurrier obviously had input on draft decisions, but he didn't make those calls... it was the Skins' personnel people who decided that Ramsey had the potential to be a long-time starting QB, and those are basically the same people who analyzed Jason Campbell... similarly, Gibbs had input on the Campbell decision, but he didn't make the final call, and that decision was based on the input provided by those personnel people...



Wow, I wish I had the inside scoop that you have about how the Redskins draft their players. If I didn't know any better, I would say that you work for the Redskins or at least hang around the war room on draft day.

And yeah, I'm sure Coach Gibbs asked permission to get the guy he wanted.

[SkinsFan26]

RYan Leaf had so much more talent than Campbell it isnt even worth discussing. To this day I still think Ryan Leaf had more pure football talent than Peyton Manning, Manning is just a football genius while Leaf is a headcase and freaks out when he is under pressure.

Or maybe Peton Manning is better than Ryan Leaf.

You really should be a football GM with talent evaluation skills like that.

[The30YardSlant]

Or maybe Peton Manning is better than Ryan Leaf.

You really should be a football GM with talent evaluation skills like that.

Watch Ryan Leaf in college, then watch Peyton Manning in college. Who has more football talent really isnt debateable and never was. The arguement was whether or not Leaf had the balls to play in the NFL. Everyone kinew Manning did. Turns out Leaf was not a tough player, physically or mentally.

[jrumann59]

Honestly I think 1st round quarterbacks are huge gambles. The only thing that is working for campbelll is he didn't win the heismann, heismann quarterbacks in the NFL for some reason do not pan out. IIRC Gibbs has pretty much 100% say in the draft, no more Danny drafting. Tot tell you the truth I never heard of campbell til DC drafted him. And some one said he campbell played in 4 systems in college and the lst one he was in he excelled, ok but is it possible that is like 80% of the drafted QB's every year and was a system QB. You have the right system to fit a QB's strengths and if he has any amount of brain cells should thrive especially in an 80% run oriented offense. Please look at all QB's that have come out of the state of Florida in the last 20 years. On the ACC vs SEC who cares. All I know about the ACC SEC is if you want good D-Line man, Linebackers, WR, DB's you draft from and ACC SEC school, if you want a QB a good rule is to look west PAC10, WAC, MAC. RB are hit or miss but many of the southern schools seem to put out good running backs. The TE's seem to come of the midwest and the Appalachian mountain states. O-Line seems to be one of the easier postions to pick because 1st-7th rounds you can get pretty good talent that stays around. You really don't have many Tony Mandarich picks when it comes O-Line.

[silverbear]

What makes Cowboys fans say Jason Campbell will be bad?

I'm not gonna say he's gonna be bad, not until I actually see him in a game... he wasn't real impressive in preseason last year, putting up a robust 43.1 quarterback rating, but to be fair, that WAS his rookie year...

The point we're trying to make is it's silly for you to assume that Campbell will be "great"... there have been quarterbacks who came into the league after Heisman Trophy seasons, IOW quarterbacks who played even better than Campbell did, and were total FLOPS in the league... you might remember one of 'em, guy by the name of Heath Shuler...

There are no sure things in the NFL, my man...

They have no justification for these types of statements. He was a great college quarterback on a top team in the top conference in the country.

Actually, until his senior season he was just a good quarterback, not a great one... he did have a great senior season, but of course, he was surrounded by a LOT of offensive firepower...

Also, Gibbs hand picked this guy and traded up to get him. The last time he did that, the Skins drafted Cooley.

So, you're saying Gibbs is infallible?? One wonders how he EVER lost a single game, if that's the case...

As a Redskins fan, I know there is no guarantee that he will be a superstar, but until he plays a full season I don't see how anyone can knock this guy.

Absolutely true...

He has looked very strong in his preseason action -

Actually, he STUNK last preseason... he was 17 of 37, under 46 per cent completion rate, threw 1 TD and 3 interceptions.. if you're gonna try to argue with us, at least take the time to doublecheck your facts, or you're gonna wind up looking pretty lame...

Again, though, we shouldn't assume he's a dog because he struggled in his preseason action in his rookie year...

You only wish that you had a young, potentially great QB on your team's roster.

We do-- his name is Tony Romo... and Drew Henson kicked some major butt over in NFL Europe earlier today... 17 of 24, 171 yards, 1 TD and 0 ints, quarterback rating of around 105...

Maybe the Skins should send Jason over there, to get his feet wet... :D

[silverbear]

Wow, I wish I had the inside scoop that you have about how the Redskins draft their players. If I didn't know any better, I would say that you work for the Redskins or at least hang around the war room on draft day.

Hey, if you wanna believe that Gibbs is the first, last and only decision-maker at Redskins Park, go right ahead and tell yourself that silly crapola...

But as it happens, I DO get a lot of exposure to the Skins, living as I do out here in the Shenandoah Valley... about 20 minutes north of Harrisonburg... our "local" TV stations are DC stations, as a Wizards and Orioles fan I subscribe to Comcast SportsNet, I read the Washington Post and the Washington Times sports pages daily...

And yeah, I'm sure Coach Gibbs asked permission to get the guy he wanted.

Didn't say he "asked permission", son, everybody knows that Danny Boy idolizes Gibbs, and would be VERY reluctant to go against him (even if giving in worked to the detrmient of the team)... what I DID say, and it would help if you sharpened your reading comprehension, that he was getting his scouting reports, his input, from the same people who gave y'all Patrick Ramsey...

If you wish to argue with me, it would be nice if you afforded me the respect of not distorting my arguments... I don't do that to you... happily, continued misrepresentations of my arguments will show anybody who reads these threads that you couldn't deal with me by relying on the truth, and that of course is an powerful indictment of your arguments...

[SkinsFan26]

Actually, he STUNK last preseason... he was 17 of 37, under 46 per cent completion rate, threw 1 TD and 3 interceptions.. if you're gonna try to argue with us, at least take the time to doublecheck your facts, or you're gonna wind up looking pretty lame...


We do-- his name is Tony Romo... and Drew Henson kicked some major butt over in NFL Europe earlier today... 17 of 24, 171 yards, 1 TD and 0 ints, quarterback rating of around 105...


Campbell had one bad interception, one hail mary pick, and one pick resulting from either a mixup with a WR or the WR ran an incorrect route. He played late in games when the Skins were trailing much of the preseason and ran a comeback offense with 3rd and 4th string receivers. He looked very impressive for a rookie. Don't just look at stat sheets and throw numbers out or you'll wind up looking pretty lame.

Tony Romo, are you kidding me? I'm glad Drew is doing well in Europe because he will never be an NFL starting QB.

[AmericasTeam31]

Campbell had one bad interception, one hail mary pick, and one pick resulting from either a mixup with a WR or the WR ran an incorrect route. He played late in games when the Skins were trailing much of the preseason and ran a comeback offense with 3rd and 4th string receivers. He looked very impressive for a rookie. Don't just look at stat sheets and throw numbers out or you'll wind up looking pretty lame.

Tony Romo, are you kidding me? I'm glad Drew is doing well in Europe because he will never be an NFL starting QB.

Ok so let me get this straight. Campbell can't be judged until he's played an entire NFL season as the starting QB for the Redskins.......

Neither Romo or Henson has played an entire GAME in the NFL, let alone an entire season. Yet you're saying that they won't make it? hhmmmm...... sounds like a little Homerism to me. Whatever makes Campbell seem like a good idea I guess.

I'm not saying either Romo or Henson will amount to anything, but they can't be judged until they've had significant playing time....

[SkinsHokieFan]

Bringing in Todd Collins was a REAL vote of confidence... LOL...

I admire your confidence, but you might want to pause to consider that it just might be misguided... remember the last quarterback the Skins drafted late in the first round, their last "quarterback of the future"??

If you don't, here's a clue-- he's now playing for the Jets, and y'all got a SIXTH round pick for him... Patrick Ramsey didn't turn out to be all that, did he??


So are you saying the Redskins should not have brought in a 3rd QB? Or maybe had 2 backup QB's with virtually 0 NFL expierence like you guys do?

Honestly man, you sound like a joke when you make suggestions like that and have no concept of Gibbs' history

The place he wants the MOST depth is at the QB position. In the mid 80s he traded a first round pick for Doug Williams to BACKUP Jay Schroeder, who just came off a terrific season.

Ramsey was part of the old regime, sort of like Chad Hutchinson was in Dallas, and from the very start of Gibbs 2 it was clear he was not enamoured with Ramsey at all, and once Gibbs felt comfortable with the QB situation (i.e Campbell 1 year on the bench, make the move for a solid vet) he shipped Ramsey out

Right now I like our QB situation far better then I like yours. What is going to happen when Drew Bledose goes down and you are forced to rely on basically 2 rookies?

[SkinsHokieFan]

Lets take this one by one

Fist please give me a link to where I said collasal bust thanks

4 different systems and was only above average in one of them

Improved senior year in yet another system if he could do it as a senior why not as a Jr?

Sit for a year this one makes 2. Does sitting automatically make you better? If so you agree that Henson will someday be a very good QB right?

good oline yes you do unfortunately Cambell is a backup again

Terrific??? a terrific WR core? are you kidding? Moss is terrific, El is a kick returner and Lloyd was average as a #1

Just because i can see clearly doesnt mean I have blue glasses on. Its a shame that you cant say anything of value. I mean come on your fellow skins fan makes himself look like an *** over here and you jump in to defend him even though you yourself do not believe college awards mean anything


Yes lets take this nonsense you just posted 1 by 1

1) 4 different systems in 4 years. If you watched Auburn 2003, they were picked to be number 1 that year by the sporting news. Why did they flop? It was clear the offense they were running JC's junior year was a damn joke. Tommy Tubberville then brought in Al Borges for JC's senior year, where that entire offense exploded. Nobody heard much of Ronnie Brown until his senior year either

And for proof there were system failures until Borges arrived at Auburn, AU had another stellar year on offense, they just didn't get it together until the 3rd week of the season, and look for Auburn to win the SEC again. COACHING matters in this case

2) Sitting for a year certainly helps a young QB. Not everyone is going to be a Troy Aikman who went 0-11 his rookie year and have the confidence to play in the NFL after that. You can see Carson Palmer and Steve McNair, both of whom got no snaps as rookies, and how well they progressed. Pennignton didn't play for 3 years and you can see how well he panned out

Guys like David Klingler, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Patrick Ramsey, Chad Hutchinson, guys who were thrown into the fire before they were ready have for the most part struggled. But there are exceptions to this case like Ben Rothlisberger, Tom Brady and Troy Aikman.

Joe Gibbs managed to turn a guy who was a 6th round pick into a Superbowl MVP in Mark Rypien. He had Stan Humprhies on the bench for years. I'll take the development route Joe Gibbs has had, and his track record into developing Superbowl QB's in this case

Can Romo or Henson become good QB's? I personally don't know enough about Romo, but I do think Henson has a world of talent and could very well still become a terrific QB for you guys. I don't think I have ever said their fate has been determined

3) As of now it looks like JC is the backup. But then if you had heard Gibbs press conference to end the season, he said things like "he is ready, its time for him to play" Looks like JC will get his shot this year (and with MB's health most likely will) behind a stellar o-line. I have no idea what this argument of yours had to do with anything

4) Terrific WR corps, yes terrific and certainly an upgrade over last season's WR corps. Teams will not be able to double up on Santana, even though we saw that when Dallas tried to double him it still failed. Randle-El will be an option, Lloyd an option, and Cooley an option. Don't forget Portis out of the backfield, and speedy David Patten as a 4th WR. When JC gets in, he will have plenty of options on each play. And considering Lloyd and Moss torched your secondary last year, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss our WR's


Seriously man, if you want to talk facts do it. Clearly though you lack any grasp of these facts, and until this post I have never mentioned college awards. Jason Campbell has physical tools which project very well into the NFL, the size, can move well, big accurate arm, and has terrific character and leadership ability (if you can lead your team to 13-0, thats leadership)

Will he be able to read an NFL defense? Will he have a full grasp of the offense? Well that I cannot answer now, and that ultimateley will determine if he is a great QB. I wouldn't bet against him though, considering the track record of the offensive coaches on this staff

[silverbear]

Campbell had one bad interception, one hail mary pick, and one pick resulting from either a mixup with a WR or the WR ran an incorrect route. He played late in games when the Skins were trailing much of the preseason and ran a comeback offense with 3rd and 4th string receivers.

He was playing against 3rd and 4th string DBs, and 3rd and 4th string pass rushers, too... and he put up perfectly lousy numbers... kind of strange, for the next great Skins quarterback, wouldn't you say?? I tried to be fair about it, and say that it's understandable, and certainly not an indicator or what kind of quarterback he'll eventually be; Troy Aikman's numbers as a rookie were pretty putrid too...

But you're just making yourself silly with this attempt to make a donkey look like a race horse... 17 of 37 is NOT good... 1 TD in 37 attempts isn't impressive either... and no matter what the reasons, 3 interceptions in 37 attempts is HORRIBLE (you act like he was the only quarterback who was ever asked to throw a Hail Mary, and got picked)... if he played like that in a regular season, and had 500 attempts (not an outrageous number for a starting QB these days), that would work out to 40 ints...

Over the last 3 years, the most ints thrown by any one quarterback in a season was Brett Favre last year, with 29... after that, the most picks was 22... of course, Campbell would find himself pulling a Ramsey (gluing his butt to the bench, never to be heard from again) LONG before he got to throw that many picks...

Don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining, because I make the powers that be in here mad when I call guys like you homers... and there isn't a snowball's chance in Hades that you'll ever convince me that horse manure is anything but horse manure...

Don't just look at stat sheets and throw numbers out or you'll wind up looking pretty lame.

I watched most of every preseason game the Skins played last year (had to leave early for a couple in order to go to work)... you see, my nephew/roommate is a life-long Skins fan... and what I saw was confirmed by what the stats sheet says...

Tony Romo, are you kidding me?

Actually, yeah, I was... I'm not really surprised that the humor eluded you, though...

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSHHHHH... right over his head, it went... LOL...

Then again, the Jets offered the Boys a third round pick for him during the course of last season, so apparently SOME teams think he has some worth... that apparently includes the Cowboys, since they turned down such a surprisingly high draft pick...

I'd find it highly amusing if Romo wound having a better NFL career than your new hero Campbell, and that could happen... while you're dissing ol' Romo, but bragging about how Campbell played in preseason, be advised that Tony's QBR was FIFTY POINTS higher than Jason's was last preseason... and coincidentally, they threw the EXACT same number of passes-- 37...

And Tony didn't throw ANY interceptions...

How curious, you're bragging on Jason's preseason performance, and talkin' trash about Tony, when Romo was VASTLY superior to Campbell last preseason...

You've gotta explain that logic to me, how can Campbell put up such lousy numbers, and you're trying to convince us all that he's a future star, while Romo put up really good numbers, and you're disparaging him??

Sounds like Skins fan logic to me, that phenomenon in which any player of theirs is the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel, until such time as that player leaves Washington, at which point he becomes a stiff who's no big loss...

I'm glad Drew is doing well in Europe because he will never be an NFL starting QB.

And yet, he put up a higher quarterback rating than Campbell did last preseason... only you won't see me characterizing HIS play as anything other than what it was-- lousy...

ROTFLMAO... you keep on talkin' trash, and you keep on steppin' on your johnson...

[silverbear]

Ok so let me get this straight. Campbell can't be judged until he's played an entire NFL season as the starting QB for the Redskins.......

Neither Romo or Henson has played an entire GAME in the NFL, let alone an entire season. Yet you're saying that they won't make it? hhmmmm...... sounds like a little Homerism to me. Whatever makes Campbell seem like a good idea I guess..

That IS a wee bit of a hypocritical double standard, isn't it??

[SkinsHokieFan]

Hey, if you wanna believe that Gibbs is the first, last and only decision-maker at Redskins Park, go right ahead and tell yourself that silly crapola...

But as it happens, I DO get a lot of exposure to the Skins, living as I do out here in the Shenandoah Valley... about 20 minutes north of Harrisonburg... our "local" TV stations are DC stations, as a Wizards and Orioles fan I subscribe to Comcast SportsNet, I read the Washington Post and the Washington Times sports pages daily...

Didn't say he "asked permission", son, everybody knows that Danny Boy idolizes Gibbs, and would be VERY reluctant to go against him (even if giving in worked to the detrmient of the team)... what I DID say, and it would help if you sharpened your reading comprehension, that he was getting his scouting reports, his input, from the same people who gave y'all Patrick Ramsey...



Steve Spurrier never personally scouted Patrick Ramsey. Joe Gibbs and the entire offensive coaching staff went down to Auburn to scout him themselves last year before the draft. Big difference there buddy

Seriously man, because you watch Comcast sportsnet you know what is going in inside Redskins park? :lmao2: God that is the worst argument I have heard in my life.

Name me a pickup the Redskins have made the past few years which has Dan Snyder's fingerprints on it. I.E aging superstar not at a position of need

FA class 2004 built our current D- Brought in Cornillieus Griffin, Marcus Washington and Shawn Springs

The draft brought in Sean Taylor and Chris Cooley. A more Snyderesque draft would have picked Kellen Winslow Jr instead of ST

Guys that were avilable that offseason included the likes of Warren Sapp and Antoine Winfield

Offseason 2005- Only one significant FA pickup in Casey Rabach. Added speed with David Patten, and shipped LC's whining *** out of DC for a star in Sanatan Moss

Draft 2005- Snyder would have drafted Mike Williams instead of Carlos Rogers

This offseason? Weaknesses on the team were attacked. I guess you guys don't say our WR corps was a weakness because our passing game torched you guys last year. But it was, Moss simply cannot do it all by himself even if he had 1500 yards recieving

Bring in 2 young guys with lots of upside to add to the WR corps

We haven't had a pass rusher in years... bingo Andre Carter

If you are going to sit here and say Comcast sportsnet gives you inside knowledge of the Washington Redskins you are aboslutley off your rocker. You are relying on the same media which said the Redskins would have to play 15-20 undrafted rookies this year, which would NOT have been true even with NO CBA

Come on man, I thought you were far better then that :lmao2: "I watch Comcast sportsnet I have plenty of exposure I know whats going on in Redskins park"

[silverbear]

So are you saying the Redskins should not have brought in a 3rd QB?

Actually, no... I'm on record as saying that was a good move by the Skins... for one thing, Collins has extensive experience in the Al Saunders system, and can help get it implemented more quickly and efficiently that it otherwise would have... this is the very reason why Parcells is so fond of bringing his old players in wherever he goes...

What I AM saying is that Todd Collins did not come to Washington to be the 3rd stringer... which means the Skins don't feel that Jason Campbell is ready to even step up and be the backup-- yet... I'm confident that the only way Campbell will find any significant playing time this year is if the Skins' season is in the dumper (and unless they get devastated by injury, I don't see that happening )... basically, I find it curious, that a guy you Skins fans are so completely sure is destined to be quite good isn't ready to step in as the backup after a full year of learning the game...

Troy Aikman started as a rookie... even Quincy Carter started as a rookie... I'm generally all in favor of bringing a young QB along slowly, but the Skins are taking that to quite a surprising extreme... if he IS ever gonna be good, the only way that will happen is to put him out there, let him take his lumps, make his mistakes, and learn from those mistakes...

Honestly man, you sound like a joke when you make suggestions like that and have no concept of Gibbs' history

First, you apparently don't have a clue what I'm "suggesting" given the way you've just completely misrepresented my argument...

Second, it is entirely possible that I go further back watching the Skins than YOU do... I vividly remember the Over the Hill Gang, in fact one night down in Georgetown, at a club called the Crazy Horse (don't know if it's still there), I met Ron McDole and Diron Talbert... I remember "wobble and win with Billy", the whole Kilmer/Jurgensen quarterback controversy...

Which has nothing to do with our argument, I'm just pointing out the dangers of making assumptions about people you don't know... in point of fact, I know the Skins' roster a good deal better than about 95 per cent of your fan base... don't know yet whether you're in the other five percent, haven't gone round and round with you enough yet to judge that...

I can say I thought you made a good argument in your response to BigDFan5's post, so you may have possibilities...

Right now I like our QB situation far better then I like yours. What is going to happen when Drew Bledose goes down and you are forced to rely on basically 2 rookies?

This year, trouble, unless Tony Romo really is a sleeper... the Boys clearly think he is... of course, this year you guys are also in deep doo-doo if Brunell goes down; Campbell is obviously not ready for prime time, and Collins is an aging mediocrity who has thrown all of 27 passes in the last EIGHT YEARS...

And next year, don't be surprised to see the Boys spend some of their cap room on a Matt Schaub or a Chris Simms, both of whom will be unrestricted free agents unless their respective teams can get them to agree to contract extensions, rather than just accept their RFA tenders... given that neither players' teams are willing to commit to them, it would be silly for them not to test the free agent waters next year, looking for a big payday and a team that will give them a serious shot at starting...

But in the spirit of fairness, if I was looking at the next coupla years, and assumed that both teams would go with the current status quo at quarterback, I'd like the Skins' situation better than the Cowboys', too... it's silly for any of us to assume that either team will maintain the status quo at that position for the next 2-3 years, though...

I have to say, I really LOVE how riled up I can get you Skins fans in here, just by pointing out a little reality... I find myself wondering how long it's gonna take for you realize I'm baiting y'all... you do seem to keep jumping at the bait, it's almost enough to make me feel like I'm picking on the disabled... :rolleyes:

[SkinsFan26]

He was playing against 3rd and 4th string DBs, and 3rd and 4th string pass rushers, too... and he put up perfectly lousy numbers... kind of strange, for the next great Skins quarterback, wouldn't you say?? I tried to be fair about it, and say that it's understandable, and certainly not an indicator or what kind of quarterback he'll eventually be; Troy Aikman's numbers as a rookie were pretty putrid too...

But you're just making yourself silly with this attempt to make a donkey look like a race horse... 17 of 37 is NOT good... 1 TD in 37 attempts isn't impressive either... and no matter what the reasons, 3 interceptions in 37 attempts is HORRIBLE (you act like he was the only quarterback who was ever asked to throw a Hail Mary, and got picked)... if he played like that in a regular season, and had 500 attempts (not an outrageous number for a starting QB these days), that would work out to 40 ints...

Over the last 3 years, the most ints thrown by any one quarterback in a season was Brett Favre last year, with 29... after that, the most picks was 22... of course, Campbell would find himself pulling a Ramsey (gluing his butt to the bench, never to be heard from again) LONG before he got to throw that many picks...

Don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining, because I make the powers that be in here mad when I call guys like you homers... and there isn't a snowball's chance in Hades that you'll ever convince me that horse manure is anything but horse manure...



I watched most of every preseason game the Skins played last year (had to leave early for a couple in order to go to work)... you see, my nephew/roommate is a life-long Skins fan... and what I saw was confirmed by what the stats sheet says...



Actually, yeah, I was... I'm not really surprised that the humor eluded you, though...

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSHHHHH... right over his head, it went... LOL...

Then again, the Jets offered the Boys a third round pick for him during the course of last season, so apparently SOME teams think he has some worth... that apparently includes the Cowboys, since they turned down such a surprisingly high draft pick...

I'd find it highly amusing if Romo wound having a better NFL career than your new hero Campbell, and that could happen... while you're dissing ol' Romo, but bragging about how Campbell played in preseason, be advised that Tony's QBR was FIFTY POINTS higher than Jason's was last preseason... and coincidentally, they threw the EXACT same number of passes-- 37...

And Tony didn't throw ANY interceptions...

How curious, you're bragging on Jason's preseason performance, and talkin' trash about Tony, when Romo was VASTLY superior to Campbell last preseason...

You've gotta explain that logic to me, how can Campbell put up such lousy numbers, and you're trying to convince us all that he's a future star, while Romo put up really good numbers, and you're disparaging him??

Sounds like Skins fan logic to me, that phenomenon in which any player of theirs is the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel, until such time as that player leaves Washington, at which point he becomes a stiff who's no big loss...



And yet, he put up a higher quarterback rating than Campbell did last preseason... only you won't see me characterizing HIS play as anything other than what it was-- lousy...

ROTFLMAO... you keep on talkin' trash, and you keep on steppin' on your johnson...

OK, I'll concede. Romo will be better than Jason Campbell.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Well silverbear, seeing how it is 12:19 on a sunday afternoon here, I gotta head out for a while and take care of things

I'll be back later on, I am enjoying this debate too much to leave it now

[Big Country]

ny and dallas are not better.... who went farthest in the playoffs again???

HOOO HOOOO HOOOO!!! Okay, got my ho hos out of the way... NOW!! As you very well know the NFL is all about who's hot at what time of the season... The Redskins had the benefit of being the hottest team, along with the Steelers, at the end of the season... Hopefully the Cowboys can be the hottest at the end of the 2006-07 season... I'm getting tired of these second half collapses... Hopefully we have the right ingredients next year... Called O-LINE depth. I don't think the Cowboys have Texas Rangeritis, but anyway...

BTW, I do think the Skins will have one helluva defense again next year... maybe even a top 5... along with ours of course... Greg Williams is a great DC, but do you think they can make a player out of overpaid Archuleta... I mean come on... But anyhoo, may the best team win.

:laugh1: :laugh1: :laugh1: :laugh1:

[Gamebreaker]

Last season has no bearing on this season, especially considering Dallas lost 3 games SOLELY because our FG kicking sucked and Washington needed 3 miracles to make the playoffs.

Dallas and New York also have first round picks, Washington doesnt. Dallas and New York both have better QBs than Washington, Dallas and New York both have signed FAs that fit their team, not FAs that make headlines like Washington. Randle El is barely even a WR, Brandon Llyod couldnt catch a cold walking naked through Alaska, and Adam Archuleta is the worst starting coverage safety in football, and that's saying something from a team that started Keith Davis last year.

Wow. You're going to be very disappointed this season. :laugh2:

I see a lot of hyperbole and very few facts in that post. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. :D

[silverbear]

Seriously man, because you watch Comcast sportsnet you know what is going in inside Redskins park? :lmao2: God that is the worst argument I have heard in my life.

Once again, when you distort my arguments that way, you reveal the weakness of your argument... if it was a solid argument, you wouldn't have to misrepresent what I said...

I mentioned a lot more than Comcast, though of course in football season they have a LOT of Redskins coverage... there's the local newspapers, there's the local TV stations, there's the sports talk radio in DC, I avail myself of ALL those options... there are also a lot of quality football sources to be found right here on the web...

So obviously, I didn't claim that I know what's going on inside Redskins Park JUST because I watch Comcast, and frankly, it's disgustingly dishonest of you to try to suggest that was what I'd said...

I rather doubt that you have any better sources... the proof of that is in the arguments I had with Skins fans just like you the last couple-three years:

1) In 2004, I said the Skins' offensive line was quite atrocious (this after Jansen got hurt in preseason, but before the start of the regular season), and that their biggest weakness would be up the middle... and look here, at season's end they ranked 30th in the league, and the Skins were so disgusted by their center play that they went out and signed Casey Rabach as their most significant free agent move of that offseason...

Not bad, for a guy you seem to be desperate to portray as clueless about your favorite team...

2) Last year, I noted the healthy return of Jansen in preseason, and the minor upgrade that Rabach represented at center (he's still nothing more than mediocre), and I said that AS LONG AS THE STARTERS STAYED HEALTHY, that would be a good, efficient line... but I also clearly said that their line had nothing in the way of quality depth, and the offense would struggle badly if one or two of the regulars got hurt... and look here, they stayed healthy until game 14, not one single game missed by a starter on the line (working off the top of my head here), and the offensive line played pretty well... but then, Randy Thomas went down, and Ray Brown followed behind him, and we all know what happened to the Skins' offense in their last 3 games (regular season finale plus their two playoff games), don't we?? 120 total yards against the Bucs, an average of around 230 yards per game over those last 3 games...

3) After the Boys' loss to the Skins in Dallas, I was going at it with some Skins fans on another board who were woofing about how "dominant" their defense was... I told them that by season's end, they would NOT be a top 5 defense, but I figured the WOULD be a top 10 defense... I also said the Boys' defense would finish in the top 10... and look here, at season's end, the Skins ranked 9th in total defense, the Cowboys ranked 10th...

For somebody who you seem to believe doesn't know jack about your favorite team, I sure do get a lot of predictions right... obviously, wherever I'm getting my information from, I'm getting some pretty good information, and I'm able to analyze it with a fair degree of accuracy...

The ironic truth is, for a few years now I've had a better ability to analyze the Skins and Iggles (I could tell you stories about arguments I've had with THEIR fans too) than my own Cowboys... I can only figure this is because it's harder for me to analyze the Boys dispassionately...

This offseason? Weaknesses on the team were attacked. I guess you guys don't say our WR corps was a weakness because our passing game torched you guys last year.

Y'know, instead of making wild, off-the-mark assumptions about what I think, you really ought to ASK me... I'll be happy to tell you, and it's really tiresome watching you guess wrong...

But it was, Moss simply cannot do it all by himself even if he had 1500 yards recieving

And if you HAD bothered to ask me, I would have said the EXACT same thing-- y'all had Moss, and NOTHING else... even Patten was a huge disappointment before he got hurt (22 catches in 9 games, IIRC)...

We haven't had a pass rusher in years... bingo Andre Carter

Wow, a guy who's had 13 whole sacks in his last 38 games... why, that works out to nearly FIVE sacks a season... a guy who's had double figure sack totals in exactly one of his five seasons (his second, 2002)... a guy who, other than that 2002 season, has never had as many as 7 sacks in a year...

And now that I've waved a red flag in front of you by once again citing statistical truth, let me admit that his numbers in recent years have been hurt by the Niners' switch to a 3-4, and his switch to OLB... he has always been a better fit as a 4-3 DE... this was a nice GAMBLE on the Skins' part, one that might pay off well for them... but for you to assume that it will is once again the essence of blind faith, and I emphasize the word blind...

Come on man, I thought you were far better then that :lmao2: "I watch Comcast sportsnet I have plenty of exposure I know whats going on in Redskins park"

How completely pathetic, that you have to resort to such blatant lying, in order to laugh at my arguments... I really thought you were better than that...

You might notice that I haven't disrespected YOU in that way, at least I haven't heard you complain that I've been distorting your arguments... I just don't care enough about a stupid online football argument to demean myself by lying...

If you wish to talk football with me, play it straight... otherwise, we're left with two options-- I can ignore you, because I'll get myself banned from here if I treat you the way I usually treat folks who lie on me this way, or you can follow me over to another board like Cowboys Central, where I CAN treat you the way I usually treat folks who like on me this way...

Which would you prefer, hoss?? Personally, I hope you choose to deal with me more honestly, because as I've said elsewhere, I've liked some of the arguments you've made... but I will not sit by and let you try to "win" this argument by twisting my words...

If you place any value on your integrity, if you value your reputation at all, you'll knock it off... or are you the kind of guy who doesn't care, because you're hiding behind an assumed name, so nobody will every really know who you are??

You wanna know the real h*ll of it?? I'm almost certain to get a gentle reprimand from one of our mods for talking to you THIS sternly, and I've tried to be as polite as I could be, given the way you've been treating me...

Of course, there's another Skins fan in this thread who has tried to pull the exact same crap on me, but I'll resist the urge to speculate that dishonesty is a character trait common to Skins fans... I really hope it's not part of your basic nature, actually, I'm rather disappointed in you...

[silverbear]

Well silverbear, seeing how it is 12:19 on a sunday afternoon here, I gotta head out for a while and take care of things

I'll be back later on, I am enjoying this debate too much to leave it now

I'll be around, bud... seriously, though, do try to treat me with a certain minimum level of honesty from here on out... I'm trying to do that for you...

Other than that, I'm enjoying the debate too... you're not NEAR as clueless as some Skins fans I've run into, though I have run into at least one that should be an example to all Skins fans, on another board, goes by the name of dfbovey... he's a pretty good guy, and a knowledgeable football fan...

[Gamebreaker]

- Seattle will flop this season. Alexander will not be as productive as last season with the loss of Hutchinson, who was instrumental in Alexander's ability to cut back to the left side of the line and run into open field.

- TO and Bledsoe will be at each other's throats by Week 6. Dallas will miss the playoffs, again.

- The Eagles will go threw a rebuilding year. Reggie Brown will prove to be a solid reciever, and actually one drafted by Philly, for once. Unforunately, he won't be able to play defense, which will be the big problem.

- The Redskins will narrowly beat out the Giants for the division. Giants will take the wildcard. Portis will finally be voted into the probowl, after be snubbed the last two seasons.

- Detroit will be the worst team in the league. Oh no, nevermind. I forgot all about the Niners. Detroit will be the SECOND worst team in the league.

- Philip Rivers will flop in San Diego.

- Miami will become a force to be reckoned with in the AFC.

[dbair1967]

- The Miami Dolphins will win the AFC East

- Drew Brees will completely flop in New Orleans

- The Washington Redskins will finish last in the NFC East

- Plaxico Burress will be a household name at season's end

- The Cleveland Browns will be a playoff contender

- Phillip Rivers will quickly become a top flight QB

- Odell Thurman will become the best LB no one's ever heard of

- Julian Peterson will quickly become the worst investment in the history of pro sports (56 million dollars?)

- Not one single division winner from a year ago will win that division this year

1) agree on Dolphins...they certainly dont have to worry about Buffalo or NYJ, and the Pats ere really slipping...love Nick Saban

2) not sure Brees totally flops, but wont surprise me if he comes back to earth some

3) dont think the Skins finish last...would say they finish 1st or 2nd, Eagles and Giants will battle for 3-4...I could really see the Giants going belly up

4) Burress more likely to be run out of town by Coughlin IMO

5) like the Browns and Crennel...might be another yr or so away though...cant see them passing up Cinci if Carson Palmer is back 100% though...also Pitt

6) not sold on Rivers yet, but wouldnt surprise me if he does well

7) Odell Thurman...good player

8) agree on Peterson...that was a horrendous deal Seattle gave him

DB

[DawnOfANewD]

- Seattle will flop this season. Alexander will not be as productive as last season with the loss of Hutchinson, who was instrumental in Alexander's ability to cut back to the left side of the line and run into open field.

- TO and Bledsoe will be at each other's throats by Week 6. Dallas will miss the playoffs, again.

- The Eagles will go threw a rebuilding year. Reggie Brown will prove to be a solid reciever, and actually one drafted by Philly, for once. Unforunately, he won't be able to play defense, which will be the big problem.

- The Redskins will narrowly beat out the Giants for the division. Giants will take the wildcard. Portis will finally be voted into the probowl, after be snubbed the last two seasons.

- Detroit will be the worst team in the league. Oh no, nevermind. I forgot all about the Niners. Detroit will be the SECOND worst team in the league.

- Philip Rivers will flop in San Diego.

- Miami will become a force to be reckoned with in the AFC.

* Hutchinson was dominant for sure, but Pork Chop Womack won't be that bad as his replacement. He's a decent player.

* 50/50 chance of that happening maybe.

* PHI will probably draft a WR in the first-round, say Jackson. That could be a nice 1-2 WR punch for years to come. Howard and Barber were nice pickups for the D. Having Howard on the opposite side should help boost Kearse's numbers. Also, Lito Sheppard missed 6 games last year so his return might help improve things a bit.

* Give credit to WAS' perenially solid O-line, but I think Portis wil be a perennial lock for the Pro Bowl. Out of 4 seasons in the NFL, he has 3 1500+ yard seasons and a 1300+ yard one at the age of 24. To put that in perspective, he's a month younger than Julius Jones.

* Josh McCown and John Kitna were great reasonably-priced pickups for QB while Barry Stokes and Rex Tucker bring experience to the OL. With the O subsequently being improved over last year and GB not having done much this offseason, I think DET could win a few more games and leave the basement in the NFC North to GB again.

* SD will have a simplified offense with Rivers, but as long as Phil has LT to handoff to and Antonio Gates as a reliable safety net, he shouldn't do too badly.

* Agreed.

[zrinkill]

I predict a LONGGGGG year for our resident troll redskin fans ..............

You guys are easy to bait :lmao2:

[The30YardSlant]

Wow. You're going to be very disappointed this season. :laugh2:

I see a lot of hyperbole and very few facts in that post. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. :D

Shall we revisist what happened last time Danny Boy went on a spending spree in the offseason?

[5Stars]

I'll be around, bud... seriously, though, do try to treat me with a certain minimum level of honesty from here on out... I'm trying to do that for you...

Other than that, I'm enjoying the debate too... you're not NEAR as clueless as some Skins fans I've run into, though I have run into at least one that should be an example to all Skins fans, on another board, goes by the name of dfbovey... he's a pretty good guy, and a knowledgeable football fan...

Silverbear, I applaud your attempt to try and dicuss football with these RedStink fans, but, my man...it's an attempt in futility!

You see, it's a product of their environment for not knowing how to discuss things in a rational way! They come from ExtremeSkins, where the mantra over there is, "either see it my way, or you are gone"! So, because of that, they don't know how to debate with rational thought...they have been programmed to adhere to the "yes man" syndrome dictated by Lil Art "The Self Proclaimed Coach"! :laugh2:

Anyway, good luck trying...it's very entertaining to watch them resort to their typical tactics, when things do not "go their own way"! It's ExtremeSkin Syndrome, my friend....!

[Bizwah]

I think it's funny that Redskin fans tend to look at our last meeting and use that as a measuring stick against us.

They're doing the same thing with the Giants.

What they're forgetting are the large amounts of serious injuries our two teams had at the end of the regular season.

Yes, they trounced us the second game.....but that was with Henry, Singleton, Dat, and Adams out. We were also just getting back Jones....who had missed a ton of games. We also started five rookies (Pettiti, Barber, Canty, Ware, and Spears).

I can't think of too many Redskin players that missed SIGNIFICANT time at the end of the year.

This year we've added Kosier, Ayodele, Vanderjagt, Fabini, Owens, and Boiman as FAs....but, we're also going to add Henry, Flozell, Julius Jones, and (hopefully) a fully recovered Marco Rivera. We'll also add three premium draft picks.

We were better than the Redskins talent-wise last season. The difference between our teams lay in the fact that they hit a soft part of their schedule, and stayed relatively healthy.

As far as predicting the NFC East.....it all comes down to health. We're all so close together, like last year, that the team that avoids injuries is likely to be the best at the end of the year.

[Bizwah]

OK, I'll concede. Romo will be better than Jason Campbell.

Don't be lazy....read his entire post.

He never said this....he's merely saying that there's just as much of a chance of Romo developing into an NFL QB as there is for Campbell.

It appeared in earlier posts by Redskin fans that they were pretty much conceding that Campbell would be a stud QB, and that Dallas had nothing.

SB was pointing out the flaws is the logic.......There is no way to tell on either counts.

[5Stars]

I think it's funny that Redskin fans tend to look at our last meeting and use that as a measuring stick against us.

They're doing the same thing with the Giants.

What they're forgetting are the large amounts of serious injuries our two teams had at the end of the regular season.

Yes, they trounced us the second game.....but that was with Henry, Singleton, Dat, and Adams out. We were also just getting back Jones....who had missed a ton of games. We also started five rookies (Pettiti, Barber, Canty, Ware, and Spears).

I can't think of too many Redskin players that missed SIGNIFICANT time at the end of the year.

This year we've added Kosier, Ayodele, Vanderjagt, Fabini, Owens, and Boiman as FAs....but, we're also going to add Henry, Flozell, Julius Jones, and (hopefully) a fully recovered Marco Rivera. We'll also add three premium draft picks.

We were better than the Redskins talent-wise last season. The difference between our teams lay in the fact that they hit a soft part of their schedule, and stayed relatively healthy.

As far as predicting the NFC East.....it all comes down to health. We're all so close together, like last year, that the team that avoids injuries is likely to be the best at the end of the year.

Also, don't forget that it was the first year, with first year rookies, in a brand new 3-4 defense! They did pretty good, if you ask me!

I also read that since the defense was newly installed, they did not use all the defensive schemes that a 3-4 can use because it would have been to much for all the player in that new scheme...and I understand that this year, more and more of the defensive schemes, blitzes, stunts and such are going to be implemented.

The RedStinks think that they will see the same Cowboy team that they saw last time...they don't know how to think ahead...they have been "programmed", "brainwashed", by the ES forum! They have been winning the SuperBowl every year past, that I have ever read! :lmao2:

Poor souls!!!! But, hey, they got them a nice little Marching Band....that's gotta be good for something, right? :cool:

[big dog cowboy]

But, hey, they got them a nice little Marching Band....that's gotta be good for something, right? :cool:
:bow:

[SkinsFan26]

Don't be lazy....read his entire post.

He never said this....he's merely saying that there's just as much of a chance of Romo developing into an NFL QB as there is for Campbell.

It appeared in earlier posts by Redskin fans that they were pretty much conceding that Campbell would be a stud QB, and that Dallas had nothing.

SB was pointing out the flaws is the logic.......There is no way to tell on either counts.

I'm not lazy, but there is no sense debating with some people on this board. Redskins fans, and all objective football fans, know they will improve upon an 11-6 season. Cowboys fans are convinced they're going to the Super Bowl after missing the playoffs by simply acquiring the worst teammate in sports history. May the best team win.

[The30YardSlant]

I'm not lazy, but there is no sense debating with some people on this board. Redskins fans, and all objective football fans, know they will improve upon an 11-6 season. Cowboys fans are convinced they're going to the Super Bowl after missing the playoffs by simply acquiring the worst teammate in sports history. May the best team win.

Using the words "Redskin's fans" and "objective" in the same sentence is punishable by death in 16 states

[5Stars]

Redskins fans, and all objective football fans, know they will improve upon an 11-6 season.

Wow, we got a Swami posting on this forum! The Amazing Kreskin his bad self! :laugh2:

And, just how do you KNOW THEY WILL IMPROVE? Really, how in the ---- do you know they will improve! Did Lil Art drill that into your tiny head?

See, it's this kind of garbage that makes you RedStinks look foolish! In reality, YOU DO NOT KNOW! And to make that kind of statement just shows where your logic is...I feel sorry for you...

Now, making a statement like the one above, if posted at ES will bring you a record number of replys! You will BE DA MAN....BEST POST EVER...!

Not here, lil feller...:laugh1:

[Gamebreaker]

Shall we revisist what happened last time Danny Boy went on a spending spree in the offseason?

Sure, if you can please show me how it relates to this off-season. You know, certain things like age, positions targeted, and expected role on the team. Let's not generalize this discussion on aspects completely unrelated to the football field like, salaries. :)

[The30YardSlant]

Sure, if you can please show me how it relates to this off-season. You know, certain things like age, positions targeted, and expected role on the team. Let's not generalize this discussion on aspects completely unrelated to the football field like, salaries. :)

Relation: You cant buy a championship team. It has never worked and never will work. In fact, most teams who try fail miserably.

[Gamebreaker]

Relation: You cant buy a championship team. It has never worked and never will work. In fact, most teams who try fail miserably.

More hyperbole, no facts. What has Dan Snyder done that is any different from any team in the NFL? He's following the rules and signing players to play for his team. If he's trying to "buy" a championship, then so is every team in the league.

The core players that drove the team to a playoff run are still there, he's only added players that would take the team even further. How is this buying a championship? You have yet to explain ANY of your assertions with anything resembling logic.

[DragonCowboy]

I'm not lazy, but there is no sense debating with some people on this board. Redskins fans, and all objective football fans, know they will improve upon an 11-6 season. Cowboys fans are convinced they're going to the Super Bowl after missing the playoffs by simply acquiring the worst teammate in sports history. May the best team win.

And there is no point in debating with you. For those of us who think we're going to the playoffs, and believe me, its not all of us, it is not JUST because we got T.O. I don't know how many times we've told ignorant, stupid Redskins fans like you that we have gotten other players whose names are not Terrell Owens. Don't fool yourself, we are filling our needs. Take RT for example, we got a starter in Jason Fabini, who is a step up over Petitti. Take K for example, we got the most accurate kicker in the history of the NFL. If any of us believe that we will win the super Bowl, it is because of the above players, along with Ayodele and T.O. who make us believe that. So instead of telling us we believe a certain way, why don't you find out WHAT we really believe, huh? Sorry, that would probably too much work for peabrain Redskins fans like you...

Go whine to Art about that...

[The30YardSlant]

More hyperbole, no facts. What has Dan Snyder done that is any different from any team in the NFL? He's following the rules and signing players to play for his team. If he's trying to "buy" a championship, then so is every team in the league.

The core players that drove the team to a playoff run are still there, he's only added players that would take the team even further. How is this buying a championship? You have yet to explain ANY of your assertions with anything resembling logic.

13 of the players on your current roster are your own draft picks, 13!!! And only 5 are starters!!!

You have the lowest number of your teams draft picks of any team in football.

[Gamebreaker]

Campbell doesnt have anything to turn lose, he was an average college QB. THe man didnt even play as well as Quincy Carter in college.

You should really do your research and stop making ridiculous statements. Please prove how Carter played better in college than Jason Campbell.

Campbell's career college numbers were 496-779, a 63% completion percentage, for 6,512 yards, 40 touchdowns and 21 interceptions. I guess you'll be finding numbers to beat those, right? :lmao:

[Gibbs II]

Relation: You cant buy a championship team. It has never worked and never will work. In fact, most teams who try fail miserably.

We have signed 7 players so far which all hold specific roles in on the team. All roles that we need to have filled. What about the Browns? They signed quite a few big names but nobody talks about how they are buying a championship. Besides maybe Adam Arch, we have not signed a typical "big name" player. Chris Fauria? Oh yea, big time guy right there. Pucillo? Oh man watch out.

[dbair1967]

Relation: You cant buy a championship team. It has never worked and never will work. In fact, most teams who try fail miserably.

the 1994 Niners bought a championship...stole might be more appropriate, but they did buy the championship by signing half the probowl defense...most of them to bogus contracts...years later they got a slap on the hand for it

David

[Mr. Grundle]

13 of the players on your current roster are your own draft picks, 13!!! And only 5 are starters!!!

You have the lowest number of your teams draft picks of any team in football.

I don't get it. What does this have to do with anything? Is there a minimum must-be-drafted-by-team requirement for any team that makes it to the Superbowl?

Also, when was it proven that you can't "buy a championship"? The only time I recall hearing that someone was trying to buy a championship was after Snyder's 2000 spending spreee. Is this the proof you're referring to?

[Gamebreaker]

13 of the players on your current roster are your own draft picks, 13!!! And only 5 are starters!!!

You have the lowest number of your teams draft picks of any team in football.

This is related to what happens on gameday how? :confused: :laugh1:

I can see how maybe if the Skins had signed so many free agents in ONE off-season, and only have 5 starters they drafted would affect team chemistry, yet that isn't the case. I noticed you didn't even reply to anything I wrote in my post, likely because there is nothing to argue aganist.

Just because a player wasn't drafted by your team, doesn't mean said player can't be influential in your team's success. Futhermore, at least be accurate. We have six starters that we've drafted (Samuels, Dockery, Jansen, Rogers, Taylor, Cooley). Also, we have two productive starters (Salavea, Marshall) who weren't even drafted at all. That should be a credit the coaching staffs ability to coach up players who were looked at as less than NFL quality.

By the way, I'm still waiting on how this off-season relates to the 2000 off-season. No, I'm not going to let that go. You just completely ignored me asking you to compare the two. Is it because they don't compare in age of players signed, role of players signed, or the positions targeted? I think so.

[The30YardSlant]

the 1994 Niners bought a championship...stole might be more appropriate, but they did buy the championship by signing half the probowl defense...most of them to bogus contracts...years later they got a slap on the hand for it

David

Yes, but SF was 100% the team Washington is before they signed those FAs

[HailTheRedSkins]

My predictions for this year are as followed- Ill try not to be very bias as I think that sometimes that comes off as seemingly uneducated and redundant.

Seattle has a medicore season ending with a 9-7 possibly 10-6 record seeing how they will have a tougher schedule this year.

Redskins clinch the NFC east with Dallas picking up the wild card if you can find a way to protect your QB. NYG will be fighting until the end but will fail with a loss to Philly at the end.

No one in the NFC east goes better than 4-2 in the division.

T.O gets ejected from your away game in Philly!!!:rolleyes:

Santana Moss and Clinton Protis outperform last year.

Redskins beat Dallas three times this season.:D

Sean Taylor makes the Pro Bowl (If he wins his trial)

And finally
Dallas Cowboy and Washington Redskin fans find even more ways to hate each other.

Good Luck to you, may the best team win the NFC East

[The30YardSlant]

My predictions for this year are as followed- Ill try not to be very bias as I think that sometimes that comes off as seemingly uneducated and redundant.

Seattle has a medicore season ending with a 9-7 possibly 10-6 record seeing how they will have a tougher schedule this year.

Redskins clinch the NFC east with Dallas picking up the wild card if you can find a way to protect your QB. NYG will be fighting until the end but will fail with a loss to Philly at the end.

No one in the NFC east goes better than 4-2 in the division.

T.O gets ejected from your away game in Philly!!!:rolleyes:

Santana Moss and Clinton Protis outperform last year.

Redskins beat Dallas three times this season.:D

Sean Taylor makes the Pro Bowl (If he wins his trial)

And finally
Dallas Cowboy and Washington Redskin fans find even more ways to hate each other.

Good Luck to you, may the best team win the NFC East

I like this guy....well as much as one can like a Racial slur fan :cool:

[Gamebreaker]

You're right Roy is no ST. Roy is better

Newman who cares what you like he was the best cover corner in the NFL last year

Ware fairly good as in would be the best defensive front 7 guy on your team

Wow. You think Ware is better than Marcus Washington, Cornellius Griffin, Andre Carter, and Lemar Marshall? Man, crack kills. Do yourself a favor and check into a clinic.

[BigDFan5]

Ill try not to be very bias as I think that sometimes that comes off as seemingly uneducated and redundant.



Redskins clinch the NFC east


T.O gets ejected from your away game in Philly!!!

Santana Moss and Clinton Protis outperform last year.

Redskins beat Dallas three times this season.

Sean Taylor makes the Pro Bowl



You may have tried but you failed

[BigDFan5]

Wow. You think Ware is better than Marcus Washington, Cornellius Griffin, Andre Carter, and Lemar Marshall? Man, crack kills. Do yourself a favor and check into a clinic.

Washington may be up there but the other 3? please

[Gamebreaker]

LOL... if Mark Brunell gets hurt this year, it will be Todd Collins coming into the game...



Spurrier obviously had input on draft decisions, but he didn't make those calls... it was the Skins' personnel people who decided that Ramsey had the potential to be a long-time starting QB, and those are basically the same people who analyzed Jason Campbell... similarly, Gibbs had input on the Campbell decision, but he didn't make the final call, and that decision was based on the input provided by those personnel people...

Once again, the only response you Skins fans have is "Coach Joe likes him, so he must be good"... like Gibbs never made a mistake in his personnel decisions...

What proof do you have that Gibbs doesn't have final say on personnel decisions?

[HailTheRedSkins]

You may have tried but you failed

Maybe your right!!! I guess I could have said the redskins beat dallas two times and beat the NYG in the playoffs.

[Gamebreaker]

Washington may be up there but the other 3? please

Ok, I'll bite. I'll just use one of those, how is Ware a better defensive player than Griffin. And please, actually come up with something substantial. Everytime I ask someone on here to back up their statements they just evade the question and spout more BS.

Futhermore, Washington is better than Ware. Drop the 'maybe.'

[SkinsFan26]

Wow, we got a Swami posting on this forum! The Amazing Kreskin his bad self! :laugh2:

And, just how do you KNOW THEY WILL IMPROVE? Really, how in the ---- do you know they will improve! Did Lil Art drill that into your tiny head?

See, it's this kind of garbage that makes you RedStinks look foolish! In reality, YOU DO NOT KNOW! And to make that kind of statement just shows where your logic is...I feel sorry for you...

Now, making a statement like the one above, if posted at ES will bring you a record number of replys! You will BE DA MAN....BEST POST EVER...!

Not here, lil feller...:laugh1:

OK, let me rephrase. The team has improved and thus the record should improve.

[The30YardSlant]

Ok, I'll bite. I'll just use one of those, how is Ware a better defensive player than Griffin. And please, actually come up with something substantial. Everytime I ask someone on here to back up their statements they just evade the question and spout more BS.

Futhermore, Washington is better than Ware. Drop the 'maybe.'

How many sacks did Griffin have?

[SkinsFan26]

Relation: You cant buy a championship team. It has never worked and never will work. In fact, most teams who try fail miserably.

So, I guess you're conceding that the Cowboys aren't going to win it all this year.

Because adding TO to your team equates to nothing except trying to buy wins.

[Gibbs II]

How many sacks did Griffin have?

Statistically Griffin's numbers were not that impressive, good, but not that impressive. But if you look at the skin's record when he was there opposed to when he wasnt, you would see that Griffin's payoff comes in his presence.

[The30YardSlant]

So, I guess you're conceding that the Cowboys aren't going to win it all this year.

Because adding TO to your team equates to nothing except trying to buy wins.

Cowboys draft picks:

Witten
Newman
Williams
Spears
Ware
Ellis
James
Adams
Johnson/Gurode
Jones
Crayton
This years 1st round draft pick

All starters for Dallas who we drafted who will play huge roels in whether or not we win this year. That's 12 of 22 starters, not including McBriar, who have spent their entire careers in Dallas.

[SkinsFan26]

How many sacks did Griffin have?


You sure know a lot about football don't you.

Ware must be a better football player because he had more sacks than a DT. Griffin and all other DTs in Gregg Williams' system don't collect a lot of sacks. Griffin was the defensive MVP for the Skins last year.

He is better football player than Ware. Ask your friends here that know something.

[BigDFan5]

Ok, I'll bite. I'll just use one of those, how is Ware a better defensive player than Griffin. And please, actually come up with something substantial. Everytime I ask someone on here to back up their statements they just evade the question and spout more BS.

Futhermore, Washington is better than Ware. Drop the 'maybe.'


Lets see Ware as a rookie had more sacks, more pressures and more tackles.

Its funny you say Washington is definately better yet Ware in his first season had more sacks then Washington did since his second year.

Furthermore Ware is coming into year 2 while Washington is coming into year 7.

[SkinsFan26]

Cowboys draft picks:

Witten
Newman
Williams
Spears
Ware
Ellis
James
Adams
Johnson/Gurode
Jones
Crayton
This years 1st round draft pick

All starters for Dallas who we drafted who will play huge roels in whether or not we win this year. That's 12 of 22 starters, not including McBriar, who have spent their entire careers in Dallas.

That relates to my post.

Any Cowboys fan who says that the Skins are trying to buy a championship this year are hypocrites. Buying TO is a blatant act of this type of accusation. Don't try to say otherwise.

I've said before, anyone who buys TO this offseason is either:
1. Desperate - probably Dallas
2. Stupid - I don't think JJ is stupid
3. Naive - maybe Dallas' FO thinks they can cure cancer.

[BigDFan5]

OK, let me rephrase. The team has improved and thus the record should improve.

Then you also agree the Cowboys record should improve?

[BigDFan5]

That relates to my post.

Any Cowboys fan who says that the Skins are trying to buy a championship this year are hypocrites. Buying TO is a blatant act of this type of accusation. Don't try to say otherwise.

I've said before, anyone who buys TO this offseason is either:
1. Desperate - probably Dallas
2. Stupid - I don't think JJ is stupid
3. Naive - maybe Dallas' FO thinks they can cure cancer.


or #4 had a need at WR and signed one of the best in the NFL?

[5Stars]

OK, let me rephrase. The team has improved and thus the record should improve.

Well, that's better...and I agree. However, make sure that you apply that logic to all teams in the NFL, not just the RedStinks!

There are to many variables from year to year, to come to a silly conclusion that just because someone did something yesterday, that the same thing will happen tommorrow...but, the way you RedStink fans come across here on this forum, is just because you had a good year last year, it's all going to be better?

If you will just realize that there are other teams that might have seen the sucess that your team had, don't you think that maybe they are doing something to counter it?

You RedStink fans do this every freaking year! WE ARE SUPERBOWL BOUND! And when it fall short...you are never heard from! However, you have a good season and now you and your little ART Army is over at this forum declaring that it's even better this year?

Hey, the Cowboys went 10-6 one year, with Quincy Carter as the QB...you see what happened the following year(s)?

Get real...!

[HailTheRedSkins]

or #4 had a need at WR and signed one of the best in the NFL?

Im just wondering why was there such a need for a Wide Reciever on the Cowboys. Im not trying to start any drama just wondering why?

[SkinsFan26]

Then you also agree the Cowboys record should improve?

Yes, I agree. But the Skins are still the better football team. Just my opinion.

[5Stars]

Yes, I agree. But the Skins are still the better football team. Just my opinion.

Here we go again! :banghead:

Hey, my car is better then your car. Just my opinion. :rolleyes:

:lmao2:

[BigDFan5]

Im just wondering why was there such a need for a Wide Reciever on the Cowboys. Im not trying to start any drama just wondering why?


because we needed a game breaking WR opposite TG, and while Keyshawn was a great possesion reciver he was not a game breaker and did not take double teams away from Glenn

[BigDFan5]

Yes, I agree. But the Skins are still the better football team. Just my opinion.


Can you explain the reasoning? I mean we finished 1 game behind you guys last year and if we beat you guys once you dont make playoffs, then would you still be saying this? or is it that one game difference that makes the Redskins better?

Cowboys have addressed their weakest points and have a pro bowl LT coming back from injury. and a top kicker. With a kicker we win 2 more games last year and this isnt even an argument

[SkinsFan26]

because we needed a game breaking WR opposite TO, and while Keyshawn was a great possesion reciver he was not a game breaker and did not take double teams away from Glenn

I disagree, I think JJ is desperate (having not won a playoff game in 10 years and getting swept and humiliated by the Skins last year) and is trying to buy a championship.

:D

[SkinsFan26]

Can you explain the reasoning? I mean we finished 1 game behind you guys last year and if we beat you guys once you dont make playoffs, then would you still be saying this? or is it that one game difference that makes the Redskins better?

Cowboys have addressed their weakest points and have a pro bowl LT coming back from injury. and a top kicker. With a kicker we win 2 more games last year and this isnt even an argument

Yeah, but the Skins beat Dallas twice last year and addressed their weak points as well.

BTW, Dallas' O-line still sucks. I don't think that weakness has been addressed sufficiently yet.

[BigDFan5]

I disagree, I think JJ is desperate (having not won a playoff game in 10 years and getting swept and humiliated by the Skins last year) and is trying to buy a championship.

:D


O I get it signing the best guy at his position is buying a champinship, yet the Skins tossing money around to every name on the market is smart investments LOL you pick that up at extremeskins?

[5Stars]

because we needed a game breaking WR opposite TO

:confused: What, please explain that to me! :)

[Gamebreaker]

* Hutchinson was dominant for sure, but Pork Chop Womack won't be that bad as his replacement. He's a decent player.

* 50/50 chance of that happening maybe.

* PHI will probably draft a WR in the first-round, say Jackson. That could be a nice 1-2 WR punch for years to come. Howard and Barber were nice pickups for the D. Having Howard on the opposite side should help boost Kearse's numbers. Also, Lito Sheppard missed 6 games last year so his return might help improve things a bit.

* Give credit to WAS' perenially solid O-line, but I think Portis wil be a perennial lock for the Pro Bowl. Out of 4 seasons in the NFL, he has 3 1500+ yard seasons and a 1300+ yard one at the age of 24. To put that in perspective, he's a month younger than Julius Jones.

* Josh McCown and John Kitna were great reasonably-priced pickups for QB while Barry Stokes and Rex Tucker bring experience to the OL. With the O subsequently being improved over last year and GB not having done much this offseason, I think DET could win a few more games and leave the basement in the NFC North to GB again.

* SD will have a simplified offense with Rivers, but as long as Phil has LT to handoff to and Antonio Gates as a reliable safety net, he shouldn't do too badly.

* Agreed.

1) My main reason for concern about this is Womack doesn't have the chemistry with Walter Jones that Hutchinson had. Chemistry is built along an OL by players knowing exactly where his teammate is without being able to see him beside him. Womack will have to build that with Jones, and it will take more than just training camp and pre-season.

Alexander cutback to the left side of the field a high number of times for big gains last season, it is something that is totally unscripted, and was the product of how great that left side of the line was. Without that cutback ability, expect to see less big runs from him and more teams worried more about shutting down Hasselbeck.

2) Who knows? Just my take on it. I expect Bledsoe and Owens to be on their best behavior in the beginning. But I simply can't see TO listening to Bledsoe run his mouth the way Keyshawn did, it would be 10 times worse.

3) Philly's offense will be fine. Their defense is where I see the issues. Sheppard may be back, but that won't change their inability to stop the run. They ranked 20th in run defense, they were only 'middle of the pack' in '04, when they made the superbowl. Shawn Barber is done, but Howard was an upgrade at least.

4) Somehow, with all the credentials you've stated about Portis, he still hasn't made the Pro Bowl since being traded to the Redskins. It's a damn shame too.

5) Lions still don't have a good defense, but the improvements on offense should be noted. I'll retract my statement of being the second worst team in the league.

6) I have no reason to say Rivers will be a flop other than a simple guess. He's never played in the league yet, so he's an unknown. But if he can't put up Pro Bowl-esque numbers with the best back in football lining up behind him, he doesn't deserve that monster contract he signed.

[BigDFan5]

Yeah, but the Skins beat Dallas twice last year and addressed their weak points as well.

BTW, Dallas' O-line still sucks. I don't think that weakness has been addressed sufficiently yet.

Dallas swept Redskins 7 of the previous 8 years big deal doesnt mean jack come this season does it?

You can say what you want on the OLine but we upgraded RT alot, we upgraded LT by getting Flozel back, and Larry Allen as much as I hate to admit it had not been a stout guard in a couple years and is replaced by Kosier without a drop off. Factor in Rivera being healthy and I think we are ok.. Luckily what you think doesnt matter

[SkinsFan26]

O I get it signing the best guy at his position is buying a champinship, yet the Skins tossing money around to every name on the market is smart investments LOL you pick that up at extremeskins?

I'm just pointing out the double standard throughout the league. Washington signs 3 big free agents and they are cheating scum.

But Cleveland, Minnesota, Atlanta, and Tennessee throw out a ton of money and no one throws a red flag. Free agency is the way of the league. There are no rules preventing all teams to spend a ton of money to get the best players. What's the big deal?

And Dallas purchased TO?! Are you kidding me about buying talent. This guy is a certified sociopath! Defend this acquistion.

[BigDFan5]

:confused: What, please explain that to me! :)


Supposed to be "opposite TG"

[HailTheRedSkins]

O I get it signing the best guy at his position is buying a champinship, yet the Skins tossing money around to every name on the market is smart investments LOL you pick that up at extremeskins?

I dont think that the redskins had too many holes to fill- and seeing how we dont have a big draft coming- we presuded heavily for the players that we needed in FA.

[SkinsFan26]

Dallas swept Redskins 7 of the previous 8 years big deal doesnt mean jack come this season does it?


What have the Boys done for you lately? I enjoyed last season. Did you?

[5Stars]

Supposed to be "opposite TG"

I knew that...:D

[BigDFan5]

I'm just pointing out the double standard throughout the league. Washington signs 3 big free agents and they are cheating scum.

But Cleveland, Minnesota, Atlanta, and Tennessee throw out a ton of money and no one throws a red flag. Free agency is the way of the league. There are no rules preventing all teams to spend a ton of money to get the best players. What's the big deal?

And Dallas purchased TO?! Are you kidding me about buying talent. This guy is a certified sociopath! Defend this acquistion.


getting TO is easily defendable. TO without a doubt is a top 3 wr in the NFL. You can hope and wish he hurts us, but the fact remains on the field he is a top 3 WR and a weapon, and he has never hurt anyone in his first season with them.

[Bizwah]

I'm not lazy, but there is no sense debating with some people on this board. Redskins fans, and all objective football fans, know they will improve upon an 11-6 season. Cowboys fans are convinced they're going to the Super Bowl after missing the playoffs by simply acquiring the worst teammate in sports history. May the best team win.

You are lazy.

You're not reading the posts....only parts of them.

I don't know that too many on here are predicting a Super Bowl for the Cowboys.

And we aren't basing improvement on only ONE player....there are many. Including all the ones that were injured and missed more than six games.

Your team went to the playoffs and had a better record. But all that's on borrowed time and you know it. The ONLY reason you were allowed back into the game was because the Cowboys and Giants were snakebitten by injuries to key players....mulitple injuries....we were rolling before that happened.

Now, I'm not making excuses. Injuries are a part of the game. We weren't good enough to overcome them. So, we went into the offseason and acquired depth.

I don't really see how your team is going to be all that improved.

Moss is great. Great year. But Randel-el doesn't scare me, and Lloyd is average at best. Our defense has three standout CBs. Newman didn't allow one TD pass all last season, Henry was having a great year until a series of injuries cut his season short, and Glenn filled in admirably. Add a FS into the mix, and we may have the best secondary in all of football.

You added Andre Carter. Here's a player that had one pretty good year, but otherwise has been average. He's undersized, and will be a liability vs the run. I like Flozell being lined up over him in running situations.

Archuleta paired with Taylor will be pretty good. Unlike most here, I won't knock your secondary too bad. But they'll be put to the test while facing Owens, Glenn, Crayton, and Witten.

How have we improved?

We added Kosier, Boiman, and Hamnan as solid depth/STs. We added a solid RT (you all ate Pettiti for lunch last game) in Fabini. We added one of the best kickers in the NFL in Vanderjagt (we win vs Seattle, Denver, and the first Wash game with a good kicker). We're adding a solid LB with size to man the middle of the 3-4 in Ayodele. And we added the game's most talented WR in Owens (he's joining an already good receiving group).

At one point in the season, we were starting five rookies...yes, five rookies. Four of them distinguised themselves, and were very impressive. Three were stand-out defensive players. Ware had eight sacks and three FF. Canty wasn't even supposed to contribute last year, but had a fine year. He'll be in his second season removed from a knee injury. Spears had a great camp until a knee and ankle injury hampered his development. He came on towards the end of the season.

To top everything off, we're getting back Adams, Singleton, Henry, Jones, and Crayton. These are players that missed six games or more last season.

So why can't we be excited?

Let's review....

-Year two in 3-4.
-Injured players returning that were key players.
-New players that provide depth and fill in missing components
-key rookies in year two

You all were not that much better than us recordwise. Talentwise, we surpass you.

You've had a solid offseason.....

-you've marginally upgraded your WR corps
-you've upgraded depth along the DL, but may have sacrificed size
-you've improved at Safety
-you hired some very good coordinators....this was your best offseason move.

So you can see why, from our perspective anyway, why we think we're better than you all.

[BigDFan5]

What have the Boys done for you lately? I enjoyed last season. Did you?

Notice instead of replying to my post you make assanine statements. This is why you are a troll you can not have an actual conversation and be honest about your team.


If winning the weakest playoff of all time before getting sent home is enjoyable for you have at it. Me I enjoy Superbowls and deep playoff runs. When you accomplish either let us know.

Who knows maybe the league will strike in a couple years :)

[SkinsFan26]

getting TO is easily defendable. TO without a doubt is a top 3 wr in the NFL. You can hope and wish he hurts us, but the fact remains on the field he is a top 3 WR and a weapon, and he has never hurt anyone in his first season with them.

I agree, he's a great player.

But you just said it for me. He's awful for the team. Enjoy your one-year-rental-WR. Your owner made a deal with the devil. Snyder was not the egocentric, desperate owner who signed this big name FA. Your guy was. Congrats on that.

[HailTheRedSkins]

I personally think that TO will be a major asset if you all can control him from getting out of hand. If you can, hey thats great for you guys, if not hey thats great for everyone in the NFC east. Its a big gamble, but one that might pay off for you.

Another question that I have is who have you gotten in FA to fill the OL hole or was it mainly injury?

[SkinsFan26]

You are lazy.

You're not reading the posts....only parts of them.

I don't know that too many on here are predicting a Super Bowl for the Cowboys.

And we aren't basing improvement on only ONE player....there are many. Including all the ones that were injured and missed more than six games.

Your team went to the playoffs and had a better record. But all that's on borrowed time and you know it. The ONLY reason you were allowed back into the game was because the Cowboys and Giants were snakebitten by injuries to key players....mulitple injuries....we were rolling before that happened.

Now, I'm not making excuses. Injuries are a part of the game. We weren't good enough to overcome them. So, we went into the offseason and acquired depth.

I don't really see how your team is going to be all that improved.

Moss is great. Great year. But Randel-el doesn't scare me, and Lloyd is average at best. Our defense has three standout CBs. Newman didn't allow one TD pass all last season, Henry was having a great year until a series of injuries cut his season short, and Glenn filled in admirably. Add a FS into the mix, and we may have the best secondary in all of football.

You added Andre Carter. Here's a player that had one pretty good year, but otherwise has been average. He's undersized, and will be a liability vs the run. I like Flozell being lined up over him in running situations.

Archuleta paired with Taylor will be pretty good. Unlike most here, I won't knock your secondary too bad. But they'll be put to the test while facing Owens, Glenn, Crayton, and Witten.

How have we improved?

We added Kosier, Boiman, and Hamnan as solid depth/STs. We added a solid RT (you all ate Pettiti for lunch last game) in Fabini. We added one of the best kickers in the NFL in Vanderjagt (we win vs Seattle, Denver, and the first Wash game with a good kicker). We're adding a solid LB with size to man the middle of the 3-4 in Ayodele. And we added the game's most talented WR in Owens (he's joining an already good receiving group).

At one point in the season, we were starting five rookies...yes, five rookies. Four of them distinguised themselves, and were very impressive. Three were stand-out defensive players. Ware had eight sacks and three FF. Canty wasn't even supposed to contribute last year, but had a fine year. He'll be in his second season removed from a knee injury. Spears had a great camp until a knee and ankle injury hampered his development. He came on towards the end of the season.

To top everything off, we're getting back Adams, Singleton, Henry, Jones, and Crayton. These are players that missed six games or more last season.

So why can't we be excited?

Let's review....

-Year two in 3-4.
-Injured players returning that were key players.
-New players that provide depth and fill in missing components
-key rookies in year two

You all were not that much better than us recordwise. Talentwise, we surpass you.

You've had a solid offseason.....

-you've marginally upgraded your WR corps
-you've upgraded depth along the DL, but may have sacrificed size
-you've improved at Safety
-you hired some very good coordinators....this was your best offseason move.

So you can see why, from our perspective anyway, why we think we're better than you all.

I agree that Dallas is a better team than last year. Period. The Boys and Skins have certainly passed the NYG and Eagles.

But I think the Skins were better last year and did more to improve this year. So, I think they will be a better team in 06. It's that simple.

TO is scum. Enjoy him.

[HailTheRedSkins]

You are lazy.

You're not reading the posts....only parts of them.

I don't know that too many on here are predicting a Super Bowl for the Cowboys.

And we aren't basing improvement on only ONE player....there are many. Including all the ones that were injured and missed more than six games.

Your team went to the playoffs and had a better record. But all that's on borrowed time and you know it. The ONLY reason you were allowed back into the game was because the Cowboys and Giants were snakebitten by injuries to key players....mulitple injuries....we were rolling before that happened.

Now, I'm not making excuses. Injuries are a part of the game. We weren't good enough to overcome them. So, we went into the offseason and acquired depth.

I don't really see how your team is going to be all that improved.

Moss is great. Great year. But Randel-el doesn't scare me, and Lloyd is average at best. Our defense has three standout CBs. Newman didn't allow one TD pass all last season, Henry was having a great year until a series of injuries cut his season short, and Glenn filled in admirably. Add a FS into the mix, and we may have the best secondary in all of football.

You added Andre Carter. Here's a player that had one pretty good year, but otherwise has been average. He's undersized, and will be a liability vs the run. I like Flozell being lined up over him in running situations.

Archuleta paired with Taylor will be pretty good. Unlike most here, I won't knock your secondary too bad. But they'll be put to the test while facing Owens, Glenn, Crayton, and Witten.

How have we improved?

We added Kosier, Boiman, and Hamnan as solid depth/STs. We added a solid RT (you all ate Pettiti for lunch last game) in Fabini. We added one of the best kickers in the NFL in Vanderjagt (we win vs Seattle, Denver, and the first Wash game with a good kicker). We're adding a solid LB with size to man the middle of the 3-4 in Ayodele. And we added the game's most talented WR in Owens (he's joining an already good receiving group).

At one point in the season, we were starting five rookies...yes, five rookies. Four of them distinguised themselves, and were very impressive. Three were stand-out defensive players. Ware had eight sacks and three FF. Canty wasn't even supposed to contribute last year, but had a fine year. He'll be in his second season removed from a knee injury. Spears had a great camp until a knee and ankle injury hampered his development. He came on towards the end of the season.

To top everything off, we're getting back Adams, Singleton, Henry, Jones, and Crayton. These are players that missed six games or more last season.

So why can't we be excited?

Let's review....

-Year two in 3-4.
-Injured players returning that were key players.
-New players that provide depth and fill in missing components
-key rookies in year two

You all were not that much better than us recordwise. Talentwise, we surpass you.

You've had a solid offseason.....

-you've marginally upgraded your WR corps
-you've upgraded depth along the DL, but may have sacrificed size
-you've improved at Safety
-you hired some very good coordinators....this was your best offseason move.

So you can see why, from our perspective anyway, why we think we're better than you all.


Good Post

[Gamebreaker]

How many sacks did Griffin have?

He is a DT, and getting sacks really isn't his responsibility in GW's defense. He had 4 sacks, and since he's generally asked to collapse the pocket and stuff the run, that is pretty good. How about you ask honest, relevant questions?

[5Stars]

Defend this acquistion.

Actually, little fool...it's your team that is going to have to "defend this acquistion"! :laugh2:

JJ paid the cash to aquire a verfied talent!

What did little Snyder do...he paid large amounts of money to 2nd tier players!

Get real...!

Now, I'll tell you what? I don't know how TO is going to work out, but, you can bet your bottom dollar, the next time the Cowboys play your team...it WILL BE A DIFFERENT BALLGAME!

[SkinsFan26]

While we're at this relentless debate, I'm going to address a common misconception on this board.

Antwaan Randle El will be a huge addition for the Skins. He will get a few ST TD's. He will throw a few TD's. He will catch a few TD's. Someone at extremeskins put together a video. Have a look and tell me that he will not be an impact player next year.

http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=358D2LASDJTAK31H16XMM6CDMM

[5Stars]

I dont think that the redskins had too many holes to fill- and seeing how we dont have a big draft coming- we presuded heavily for the players that we needed in FA.

What about youth? What about depth? What about continunity?

Who is your team going to pick in the 1st round this coming draft?

:laugh2:

[5Stars]

What have the Boys done for you lately? I enjoyed last season. Did you?

RedStink logic! :laugh2:

Yo, little buddie...last year was last year! :laugh1:

[HailTheRedSkins]

Actually, little fool...it's your team that is going to have to "defend this acquistion"! :laugh2:

JJ paid the cash to aquire a verfied talent!

What did little Snyder do...he paid large amounts of money to 2nd tier players!

Get real...!

Now, I'll tell you what? I don't know how TO is going to work out, but, you can bet your bottom dollar, the next time the Cowboys play your team...it WILL BE A DIFFERENT BALLGAME!

It will be fun. although I think time will prove you wrong that ARL was a bad move, we will see. If nothing else it gives us more room to work the run with three maybe four WR.

[SkinsFan26]

RedStink logic! :laugh2:

Yo, little buddie...last year was last year! :laugh1:

That was a taste of Cowboys logic. Like reliving the past. I'll puke if I hear how the Cowboys have won x/x games in this rivalry.

Looks like things are changing. :laugh1:

[Gamebreaker]

Lets see Ware as a rookie had more sacks, more pressures and more tackles.

Its funny you say Washington is definately better yet Ware in his first season had more sacks then Washington did since his second year.

Furthermore Ware is coming into year 2 while Washington is coming into year 7.

How are sacks somehow the only determinant to who is a better LB? :laugh2: Come on, are you serious? Is that the best you can come up with? He had .5 more sacks than Washington, oh no! That says alot!! :laugh1:

I love how every Boyz fan on here loves to quote stats to back up their arguments, yet ignores the stats that go against it. Stats like Washington having more tackles, more assisted tackles, more defensed passes, more interceptions, more plays behind the line of scrimmage.

Yet somehow, the Skins "trolls" never know what they're talking about. :rolleyes:

[HailTheRedSkins]

What about youth? What about depth? What about continunity?

Who is your team going to pick in the 1st round this coming draft?

:laugh2:

Well see.

[Bizwah]

I personally think that TO will be a major asset if you all can control him from getting out of hand. If you can, hey thats great for you guys, if not hey thats great for everyone in the NFC east. Its a big gamble, but one that might pay off for you.

Another question that I have is who have you gotten in FA to fill the OL hole or was it mainly injury?

We were one of the top offenses in the NFL until Flo went down with an injury.

Here's the story of our offensive line last season.

Rivera injures his back the day after we sign him. He never has time to recover before the season starts. He was a Pro-Bowler before his injury.

Jacob Rogers was making great progress in the offseason. Parcells gambled that he'd be the missing piece at RT. He lost. Rogers went and had knee surgery without consent from the team. We went into the season with a rookie 6th round pick at RT. He acquitted himself well until Flo went down. We could no longer help him because we had Tucker at LT. Ugly......

Allen was solid, but only a shell of his former self. I wish we still had him...but you move on.

So, we get Flo back...he's a Pro-Bowler at LT. All reports have him on schedule to start TC.

We signed Kosier who's a good fill in at LG. Admittedly, I'm worried here. I think he'll provide solid depth for us....I hope Peterman or a rookie draft pick wins this spot.

We're status quo at Center. We didn't necessarily have a weakness here last year, but it was not a strenght. It was Johnson's second year starting. We can definitely stand for improvement here, but I don't think this position kills us.

RG will be manned by Rivera. Back injuries are tricky, but he'll be a year removed from surgery. If he reverts to his PB form, then we'll have no worries here. Depth is key here.

RT is vastly improved by the signing of Fabini. Pettiti filled in admirably. He finally was outmanned at the end of the season. He also played most of the year on a bad right ankle. We should be fine here. I wouldn't be surprised to see us draft an OT high either.

Honestly, we could still use some help here. But Fabini and Kosier are both good in pass pro, so that should help Bledsoe.

I'd give our OL a grade of "C"....average....nothing more. There's still the draft to reckon with though.

[5Stars]

Yet somehow, the Skins "trolls" never know what they're talking about. :rolleyes:

Now, this I agree with...!

[Bizwah]

How are sacks somehow the only determinant to who is a better LB? :laugh2: Come on, are you serious? Is that the best you can come up with? He had .5 more sacks than Washington, oh no! That says alot!! :laugh1:

I love how every Boyz fan on here loves to quote stats to back up their arguments, yet ignores the stats that go against it. Stats like Washington having more tackles, more assisted tackles, more defensed passes, more interceptions, more plays behind the line of scrimmage.

Yet somehow, the Skins "trolls" never know what they're talking about. :rolleyes:

I think most Cowboy fans will admit that Washington and Griffin are better than Ware.

But can you really admit that Clemons and Marshall are better than Ware?

Show some stats.....BTW, tackles are stats that are kept by teams. So, they're hard to compare.

Sacks, FF, and INTs aren't.....

[Gamebreaker]

Now, this I agree with...!

Did you even read my post? No, you're just trying to be an ***. Good job, you're a master at your craft.

[SkinsFan26]

I think most Cowboy fans will admit that Washington and Griffin are better than Ware.

But can you really admit that Clemons and Marshall are better than Ware?

Show some stats.....BTW, tackles are stats that are kept by teams. So, they're hard to compare.

Sacks, FF, and INTs aren't.....

OK, if stats are your thing.

Lemar Marshall had almost twice as many tackles (98-58)

Lemar Marshall had 4 INT, Ware had none.

Lemar Marshall scored a TD, Ware did not.

Ware had more sacks. But I think Ware was sent after the QB 10 times more often than Marshall.

So is Lemar Marshall better in your book?

[Gamebreaker]

I think most Cowboy fans will admit that Washington and Griffin are better than Ware.

But can you really admit that Clemons and Marshall are better than Ware?

Show some stats.....BTW, tackles are stats that are kept by teams. So, they're hard to compare.

Sacks, FF, and INTs aren't.....

I used nfl.com to compare the tackles of both players, not each teams' website where the numbers would likely be the same or higher. Regardless of this, Washington trounces Ware in nearly every category. Ware only had .5 more sacks than Washington, they had the same amount of forced fumbles, and Washington had 1 INT when Ware had none. The rest of the stats go Washington's way. Futhermore, football is about more than just statistics. The statistics never show how many times a player gets beat in coverage, or missed tackles, or blown assignments. By doing extensive research at websites that keep track of such things, you'll find Marcus Washington doesn't have very high numbers in those three categories.

I never mentioned Chris Clemons, an undrafted project of Gregg Williams who is still coming along. I know Ware is better than Clemons. Unlike some people in this thread, I'm not a homer and I can admit these things. Marshall on the other hand, is another undrafted player who Williams has turned into as solid a MLB as you can get. He's great in coverage, plays the zone well, and he's extremely smart. He's a player, that came in and took over as the mic for this defense when Antonio Pierce left, and was only slightly worse in that aspect that Pierce was. Yes, Marshall is better than Ware, because without Lemar this defense would've did a complete 180 from the 2004 season.

[Gamebreaker]

OK, if stats are your thing.

Lemar Marshall had almost twice as many tackles (98-58)

Lemar Marshall had 4 INT, Ware had none.

Lemar Marshall scored a TD, Ware did not.

Ware had more sacks. But I think Ware was sent after the QB 10 times more often than Marshall.

So is Lemar Marshall better in your book?

To be fair, Marshall is expected to have more tackles since he's a MLB and Ware isn't. Regardless, that doesn't account for the other points you made. Good post.

[Gamebreaker]

By the way, I'm still waiting on HeavyHitta31 to answer my questions to him. I'll either keep asking him to answer them everytime he avoids them and makes a snide comment about something else in this thread or finally admits he's wrong.

[Bizwah]

OK, if stats are your thing.

Lemar Marshall had almost twice as many tackles (98-58)

Lemar Marshall had 4 INT, Ware had none.

Lemar Marshall scored a TD, Ware did not.

Ware had more sacks. But I think Ware was sent after the QB 10 times more often than Marshall.

So is Lemar Marshall better in your book?

No....

Again, tackles are kept by individual teams and aren't official statistics.

Marhsall was sent into coverage about ten times more than Ware.

Ware had more pressures, more FF, more TFL, and more sacks. Not only that, he was double-teamed about half the time.

How often was Marshall double-teamed?

Ask any NFL GM if they'd rather have Marshall or Ware. Tell me how many pick Marshall.

Heck, go ahead and speculate.

If you're honest with yourself, you'd probably realize that practically NONE would choose Marshall.

Again, Ware isn't as good as Washington.

He's better than Marshall......He'd be able to play Marshall's position and play it well. There's no way Marshall could play Ware's position. He'd be engulfed.

[Bizwah]

I used nfl.com to compare the tackles of both players, not each teams' website where the numbers would likely be the same or higher. Regardless of this, Washington trounces Ware in nearly every category. Ware only had .5 more sacks than Washington, they had the same amount of forced fumbles, and Washington had 1 INT when Ware had none. The rest of the stats go Washington's way. Futhermore, football is about more than just statistics. The statistics never show how many times a player gets beat in coverage, or missed tackles, or blown assignments. By doing extensive research at websites that keep track of such things, you'll find Marcus Washington doesn't have very high numbers in those three categories.

Reread the post.

I basically said that Washington was better than Ware.

I love Washington as a player and would love to have him.

I never mentioned Chris Clemons, an undrafted project of Gregg Williams who is still coming along. I know Ware is better than Clemons. Unlike some people in this thread, I'm not a homer and I can admit these things. Marshall on the other hand, is another undrafted player who Williams has turned into as solid a MLB as you can get. He's great in coverage, plays the zone well, and he's extremely smart. He's a player, that came in and took over as the mic for this defense when Antonio Pierce left, and was only slightly worse in that aspect that Pierce was. Yes, Marshall is better than Ware, because without Lemar this defense would've did a complete 180 from the 2004 season.

Oh, please......Marshall is not better than Ware. He is not the game-changer Ware is.

Teams have to account for Ware. Teams have to game plan for Ware. Do teams have to game plan around Marshall?

Highly doubtful.

Ware is in a position to create havoc. He did that a lot. Marshall is in a position to pick up the garbage created for him.

To top it off, he was a rookie last year in a defense he'd never played, and in a position he'd never played.

This year, he'll be bigger (reports have him at 265) and be in a position to react instead of think.

[Mr. Grundle]

Cowboys draft picks:

Witten
Newman
Williams
Spears
Ware
Ellis
James
Adams
Johnson/Gurode
Jones
Crayton
This years 1st round draft pick

All starters for Dallas who we drafted who will play huge roels in whether or not we win this year. That's 12 of 22 starters, not including McBriar, who have spent their entire careers in Dallas.

What have the Cowboys won since drafting all these players?

I'm still trying to figure out what this argument is. You can lose just as much by building through the draft as opposed to free agency?

[Gamebreaker]

No....

Again, tackles are kept by individual teams and aren't official statistics.

Marhsall was sent into coverage about ten times more than Ware.

Ware had more pressures, more FF, more TFL, and more sacks. Not only that, he was double-teamed about half the time.

How often was Marshall double-teamed?

Ask any NFL GM if they'd rather have Marshall or Ware. Tell me how many pick Marshall.

Heck, go ahead and speculate.

If you're honest with yourself, you'd probably realize that practically NONE would choose Marshall.

Again, Ware isn't as good as Washington.

He's better than Marshall......He'd be able to play Marshall's position and play it well. There's no way Marshall could play Ware's position. He'd be engulfed.

For one, we're comparing what both players did in two totally different roles. It's foolish to say Ware could do Marshall's job, because we really have no idea about Ware's football smarts. GW's middle linebacker has to know the playbook like his ABC's and make major adustments on the field. Ware, being a former DE, has never been put in that position and it's foolish to say he could do a great job of it.

I agree that nearly every GM would take Ware over Marshall, but not because of their performances in 2005. They would because Marshall went undrafted, and Ware was highly regarded. They would because Marshall has been in the league for a number of years, and Ware is going into his sophmore season. It's expected that Ware will just improve off his already impressive rookie season. There really isn't any discussion in that regard, yet that doesn't diminsh the wonderful job Marshall did last year.

[Mr. Grundle]

Lemar Marshall is rock solid, but I'd take Ware over him in a second.

[The30YardSlant]

What have the Cowboys won since drafting all these players?

I'm still trying to figure out what this argument is. You can lose just as much by building through the draft as opposed to free agency?

Look at recent SB winners: Pittsburgh, New England, Tampa Bay. All built title teasm through the draft. Other than SF in 1994, who already had a great team, name one team that has won anything of substance with mostly FA talent?

[Gamebreaker]

Oh, please......Marshall is not better than Ware. He is not the game-changer Ware is.

Teams have to account for Ware. Teams have to game plan for Ware. Do teams have to game plan around Marshall?

Highly doubtful.

Ware is in a position to create havoc. He did that a lot. Marshall is in a position to pick up the garbage created for him.

To top it off, he was a rookie last year in a defense he'd never played, and in a position he'd never played.

This year, he'll be bigger (reports have him at 265) and be in a position to react instead of think.

Read my latest post on this, it pretty much addresses everything you've said in this post and the previous one.

[Gamebreaker]

Look at recent SB winners: Pittsburgh, New England, Tampa Bay. All built title teasm through the draft. Other than SF in 1994, who already had a great team, name one team that has won anything of substance with mostly FA talent?

I see you still can't answer my questions. :laugh1: Just do us both a favor and admit you were wrong. :D

[The30YardSlant]

I see you still can't answer my questions. :laugh1: Just do us both a favor and admit you were wrong. :D

Wrong about what, that Danny Boy is back to his old tricks of trying to buy a ring? Nah, the proof is in the NFL record signing bonuses and the complete disregard for the team's cap future.

This is 2000 all over again, except this time, you arent signing Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders, you're signing Antwaan Randle El and Adam Archuleta.

Actually, now that you mention it, your right, there is a difference. In 2000, Snyder brought in actual talent. Nevertheless, the results will be much the same. Have a fun 7-9 year at best.

[Bizwah]

For one, we're comparing what both players did in two totally different roles. It's foolish to say Ware could do Marshall's job, because we really have no idea about Ware's football smarts. GW's middle linebacker has to know the playbook like his ABC's and make major adustments on the field. Ware, being a former DE, has never been put in that position and it's foolish to say he do a great job of it.

This is true.

But Ware's football intelligence can't be questioned. Here's a guy that played WR in highschool, moved to DE in college, finally to play OLB in a 3-4 in the NFL.

To say he couldn't pick up a MLB scheme is.....well, I guess you never know.

You were the one comparing the two players. I think it's very homerish to say that Marshall, a complimentary piece, is a better player than Ware, a key piece in Dallas' successful conversion to a 3-4.

I agree that nearly every GM would take Ware over Marshall, but not because of their performances in 2005. They would because Marshall went undrafted, and Ware was highly regarded.

There's a reason why.

Ware is a game-changer, evidenced by the game vs the Panthers. He totally took over the game. All season, he rushed the QB into poor throws, stopped RBs behind the LOS, as well as sacking the QB.

Marshall played well, and made many tackles, but did it behind a DL that made it possible for him to succeed. In other words, he was a lot like the MLBs we had in the past. Dat made tons of tackles, but he was marginally successful in the 3-4 because he was asked to take on OL.

Marshall plays well because he relys on others.

They would because Marshall has been in the league for a number of years, and Ware is going into his sophmore season. It's expected that Ware will just improve of his already impressive rookie season. There really isn't any discussion in that regard, yet that doesn't diminsh the wonderful job Marshall did last year.

No, they would because Ware is more of an IMPACT player with more talent and a higher ceiling. He's a bigger player and a better athlete.

[SkinsFan26]

No....

Again, tackles are kept by individual teams and aren't official statistics.

Marhsall was sent into coverage about ten times more than Ware.

Ware had more pressures, more FF, more TFL, and more sacks. Not only that, he was double-teamed about half the time.

How often was Marshall double-teamed?

Ask any NFL GM if they'd rather have Marshall or Ware. Tell me how many pick Marshall.

Heck, go ahead and speculate.

If you're honest with yourself, you'd probably realize that practically NONE would choose Marshall.

Again, Ware isn't as good as Washington.

He's better than Marshall......He'd be able to play Marshall's position and play it well. There's no way Marshall could play Ware's position. He'd be engulfed.

I agree that Ware is a better football player. I was making the point that stats can not be used to determine talent, pretty much ever.

[Gamebreaker]

Wrong about what, that Danny Boy is back to his old tricks of trying to buy a ring? Nah, the proof is in the NFL record signing bonuses and the complete disregard for the team's cap future.

This is 2000 all over again, except this time, you arent signing Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders, you're signing Antwaan Randle El and Adam Archuleta.

Actually, now that you mention it, your right, there is a difference. In 2000, Snyder brought in actual talent. Nevertheless, the results will be much the same. Have a fun 7-9 year at best.

No, actually, you still haven't answered my questions. Let me go back and show them to you again.

"Please prove how Carter played better in college than Jason Campbell.

Campbell's career college numbers were 496-779, a 63% completion percentage, for 6,512 yards, 40 touchdowns and 21 interceptions. I guess you'll be finding numbers to beat those, right?"

"What has Dan Snyder done that is any different from any team in the NFL? He's following the rules and signing players to play for his team. If he's trying to "buy" a championship, then so is every team in the league. The core players that drove the team to a playoff run are still there, he's only added players that would take the team even further. How is this buying a championship?"

" please show me how it relates to this off-season. You know, certain things like age, positions targeted, and expected role on the team. Let's not generalize this discussion on aspects completely unrelated to the football field like, salaries."

You've actually answer NONE of these questions, especially that ridiculous assertion about Quincy Carter being a better college quarterback than Jason Campbell. :laugh2:

I've already stated that salaries are completely unrelated to what a player does on a field, you've never seen a signing bonus score a touchdown or make a tackle. So please, beyond harping on irrelevant things like salary, how are the Redskins buying a Superbowl?

[5Stars]

Did you even read my post? No, you're just trying to be an ***. Good job, you're a master at your craft.

"Furthermore Ware is coming into year 2 while Washington is coming into year 7."

Did you even read that?

And, I'm the master of craft? Me...the master of craft? :laugh2:


I know who your master is...and he's calling your name to come back home! You need a little more brainwashing....I don't know what his name is, but it's spelled A R T...! Go now, run to him...he knows all things! :D

But, yeah, thanks for the "master" reference...I am proud of that!

[Gamebreaker]

You were the one comparing the two players. I think it's very homerish to say that Marshall, a complimentary piece, is a better player than Ware, a key piece in Dallas' successful conversion to a 3-4.

I was comparing their value for their teams. You know, I never called you a homer. But I can definitely say it is homerish to call a player who runs the whole defense and STILL makes plays as simply a "complimentary piece", simply because he isn't a big name.



There's a reason why.

Ware is a game-changer, evidenced by the game vs the Panthers. He totally took over the game. All season, he rushed the QB into poor throws, stopped RBs behind the LOS, as well as sacking the QB.

Great. He does his job, I never stated otherwise.

Marshall played well, and made many tackles, but did it behind a DL that made it possible for him to succeed. In other words, he was a lot like the MLBs we had in the past. Dat made tons of tackles, but he was marginally successful in the 3-4 because he was asked to take on OL.

Marshall plays well because he relys on others.

This is his role, what else is supposed to do? It seems to me you just prefer Ware's role over Marshall's, and that is why you feel he is a better player. They did their jobs exactly how they were supposed to. I don't think if Ware was thrust into Marshall's role he'd have done half as well. He would've been out of position half of the time, filling the wrong gap on running plays, or outright getting beat in coverage. Yet this is just IMO, because it's very likely Ware will never be asked to play MLB.

[Gamebreaker]

"Furthermore Ware is coming into year 2 while Washington is coming into year 7."

Did you even read that?

And, I'm the master of craft? Me...the master of craft? :laugh2:


I know who your master is...and he's calling your name to come back home! You need a little more brainwashing....I don't know what his name is, but it's spelled A R T...! Go now, run to him...he knows all things! :D

But, yeah, thanks for the "master" reference...I am proud of that!

Wow. You wrote all that without even proving me wrong, yet you've actually convinced yourself you're right. :lmao2: Great job, moron. You really aren't that bright, seriously. Re-read what you quoted and answered to and tell you really feel proud of that.

Just because Ware is in year 2 and Washington is in year 7 doesn't change the FACT that Washington played better last season, and is simply a better player PERIOD. Notice any of your fellow Boyz fans backing you up? No. Wonder why? Because their embarassed you're even in this thread showing how much of a brainless homer you are! :laugh2: :lmao2:

[The30YardSlant]

No, actually, you still haven't answered my questions. Let me go back and show them to you again.

"Please prove how Carter played better in college than Jason Campbell.

Campbell's career college numbers were 496-779, a 63% completion percentage, for 6,512 yards, 40 touchdowns and 21 interceptions. I guess you'll be finding numbers to beat those, right?"

"What has Dan Snyder done that is any different from any team in the NFL? He's following the rules and signing players to play for his team. If he's trying to "buy" a championship, then so is every team in the league. The core players that drove the team to a playoff run are still there, he's only added players that would take the team even further. How is this buying a championship?"

" please show me how it relates to this off-season. You know, certain things like age, positions targeted, and expected role on the team. Let's not generalize this discussion on aspects completely unrelated to the football field like, salaries."

You've actually answer NONE of these questions, especially that ridiculous assertion about Quincy Carter being a better college quarterback than Jason Campbell. :laugh2:

I've already stated that salaries are completely unrelated to what a player does on a field, you've never seen a signing bonus score a touchdown or make a tackle. So please, beyond harping on irrelevant things like salary, how are the Redskins buying a Superbowl?

Quincy Carter was a Heisman candidate going into both his junior and senior seasons. No one even gave a Campbell a second thought towards the Heisman. He didnt have a great senior season, but received much more notoriaty in college than Campbell did.

And no one else has signed the number of "high profile" players than Snyder has, nor has anyone overpaid in such grand fashion. Snyder has almost no drafted talent, and in turn is attempting to purchase his way to a SB. Dallas signed TO to help, yes. However, we have draft picks at almost every position on this team. All but one of our great defensive players was drafted by us. FA helps, but champions are not built through FA.

[silverbear]

Silverbear, I applaud your attempt to try and dicuss football with these RedStink fans, but, my man...it's an attempt in futility!

If I thought that was the case in this situation, I wouldn't even bother trying... but while there ARE some Skins fans out there who are totally delusional, I've also known a few who are good guys, and capable of making a good argument...

I always enjoy running across that kind... and I think I might have one of them in SkinsHokiesFan (though as a long-time UVa Cavs fan, I have to worry about some who likes the Skins AND VaTech, LOL)...

Anyway, I find myself hoping that his distortion of my arguments wasn't intentional, and that if I point out the disingenuousness of such distortions, he'll recognize that he ought to be more straight up when characterizing my position...

It's ExtremeSkin Syndrome, my friend....!

I honestly don't know what any football fan sees in that board... every time I follow a hyperlink to a thread from over there, I just shake my head in utter awe and amazement at the pure homerism of that joint...

[Gamebreaker]

Quincy Carter was a Heisman candidate going into both his junior and senior seasons. No one even gave a Campbell a second thought towards the Heisman. He didnt have a great senior season, but received much more notoriaty in college than Campbell did.

And no one else has signed the number of "high profile" players than Snyder has, nor has anyone overpaid in such grand fashion. Snyder has almost no drafted talent, and in turn is attempting to purchase his way to a SB. Dallas signed TO to help, yes. However, we have draft picks at almost every position on this team. All but one of our great defensive players was drafted by us. FA helps, but champions are not built through FA.

You are like a broken record. You keep repeating the same statements that logically don't hold water in this discussion. For Snyder to just want "high profile" players, why didn't he sign Julian Peterson, or trade for Daunte Culpepper, or hell, sign Terrell Owens. He signed players in needs. That argument has a bigger hole in it than the Titanic.

Furthermore, the players signed in 2000 were all brought in to help the 29th ranked defense, except for George. That defense went from 29th to 5th. The lack of depth on offense due to injuries did that season in. Do your own research and stop repeating manure spewed by fools.

Also, I asked you show Carter's college stats and what do you do? You go on about the Heisman. PROVE HE WAS BETTER, DON'T GIVE THAT SUBJECTIVE BULL****. Show his damn stats. Or explain why everyone and their grandmother thought Carter was drafted WAY too high, and he was still drafted lower than Campbell. Again, you cannot win this argument without providing better stats than Campbell's.

You have yet to prove a damn thing in any of those arguments and it's painfully obvious. :lmao:

[5Stars]

Wow. You wrote all that without even proving me wrong, yet you've actually convinced yourself you're right. :lmao2: Great job, moron. You really aren't that bright, seriously. Re-read what you quoted and answered to and tell you really feel proud of that.

Just because Ware is in year 2 and Washington is in year 7 doesn't change the FACT that Washington played better last season, and is simply a better player PERIOD. Notice any of your fellow Boyz fans backing you up? No. Wonder why? Because their embarassed you're even in this thread showing how much of a brainless homer you are! :laugh2: :lmao2:

Youth, bro...football is a young man's game...that is all I'm saying. The Cowboys have developed youth, while Lil Snyder tries to buy experience...

It's all good...we shall see in the end how this all works out....

And, as far as my fellow Cowboy football fans are concerned...they are probably more tired of you RedStinks...just as much as I am...

But, guess what?

YOU ARE NOT BANNED FOR YOUR OPINIONS! Try that over at your house!

Sucker! :D

[silverbear]

I'm not lazy, but there is no sense debating with some people on this board. Redskins fans, and all objective football fans, know they will improve upon an 11-6 season.

1) If you're such an "objective" football fan, how come you can't even get your own team's record straight?? Here's a hint-- if you're talking about their regular season record, they played SIXTEEN games... and if you're factoring in their playoff games as well, they played EIGHTEEN games... but 11-6 adds up to SEVENTEEN games...

If you can't even get a basic fact like your own team's record right, how are we supposed to trust ANYTHING you might post in here??

2) A TRULY objective fan would recognize that the Skins got uncommonly lucky on the injury front last year, and that when that happens, a team often surprises the league... but that objective fan also recognizes that it is highly unlikely they'll enjoy such good fortune again... it is NOT unreasonable to anticipate the Skins taking a step back this coming season, if they suffer a more "normal" number of injuries...

But of course, you're not gonna be "objective" enough to admit that the Skins caught a break when it came to injuries last year... that's because you're not really objective at all, in fact you tend toward an extremely homersitic take of your favorite team...

3) My arguments have been heavily based on statistical analysis... you can't GET more "objective" than using statistical fact... your arguments have mostly consisted of sneering that stats don't mean anything, which of course is hardly objective...

4) If you have such utter contempt for the objectivity of Cowboys fans, why on earth are you even in here?? Are you so utterly desperate for football talk, and can't seem to find a Skins board that will satisfy that urge?? Or are you just here to troll??

Here endeth the lesson... LOL...

[The30YardSlant]

You are like a broken record. You keep repeating the same statements that logically don't hold water in this discussion. For Snyder to just want "high profile" players, why didn't he sign Julian Peterson, or trade for Daunte Culpepper, or hell, sign Terrell Owens. He signed players in needs. That argument has a bigger hole in it than the Titanic.

Furthermore, the players signed in 2000 were all brought in to help the 29th ranked defense, except for George. That defense went from 29th to 5th. The lack of depth on offense due to injuries did that season in. Do your own research and stop repeating manure spewed by fools.

Also, I asked you show Carter's college stats and what do you do? You go on about the Heisman. PROVE HE WAS BETTER, DON'T GIVE THAT SUBJECTIVE BULL****. Show his damn stats. Or explain why everyone and their grandmother thought Carter was drafted WAY too high, and he was still drafted lower than Campbell. Again, you cannot win this argument without providing better stats than Campbell's.

You have yet to prove a damn thing in any of those arguments and it's painfully obvious. :lmao:

With all those FAs in 2000, what was your record? Exactly. Saying that it was good because they helped the defense is like saying you brought in a chandelier and some nice furniture to fix up one room of a haunted house. The house is still a piece of crap, just a little less crappy.

And I'm not going to go find Quincy Carter's stats, I dont need to. Numbers mean almost nothing in college. Andre Ware (considering I doubt you know who he is since you have obviously never watched college football, you can feel free to ask for an explantion) put up record numbers at Houston. He was maybe the biggest bust in NFL history. Danny Wuerful? Ryan Leaf? Any QB who's ever played for Texas Tech (That's a school in Lubbuck, Texas with a pass happy offense, think Steve Spurrier)? Whta have any of these guys ever done in the NFL after lighting it up in college?

If you had ever, even once, watched Auburn, you would know that teams put 8 in the box EVERY PLAY. On 3rd and 12 they had 8 in the box. Why? Because Auburn had 2 of the 3 best RBs in CF. He had the best O-Line in CF blocking for him. Even with all that, Auburn's defense won most of their games that year for them.

Ok, let's play the "they fill a hole" game:

Adam Archuleta: Worst starting coverage safety in football, brought in because Washington's safeties got burnt so badly last year. Brilliant?

Andre Carter: Tweener who gets pushed around by OT brough to help the worst pass rush in football. Makes sense?

Brandon Llyod and Antwaan Randle El: Brought in help an undersized, no talent WR core and both are smurfs with questionable hands. Wonderful?

Maybe you could shed some light on these signings for those of us who have actually watched football before?

[silverbear]

Sure, if you can please show me how it relates to this off-season. You know, certain things like age, positions targeted, and expected role on the team. Let's not generalize this discussion on aspects completely unrelated to the football field like, salaries. :)

I think he was making a more general point, that in the past the Skins' spending sprees haven't translated into success on the field... and while there are obviously differences in the specifics of each year's situations, as a generic argument it is not without merit...

Especially when all we heard from you Skins fans last year was how their sudden restraint in free agent spending was proof that Gibbs was having a positive effect on Danny Boy, teaching him restaint and the value of making shrewder personnel decisions... you talked about how constantly shuffling players on a wholesale basis was damaging to "continuity" and "cohesiveness", and how Danny Boy seemed to have FINALLY learned that less...

Then this year, Gibbs is actually buying into Danny Boy's old philosophy, and you guys are now crowing about how you're adding all this new talent... fpr the strangest reason, I can't seem to find ONE of you who are still backing that "continuity" theory...

It would be nice if you guys would pick one argument, and stick with it...

[silverbear]

More hyperbole, no facts. What has Dan Snyder done that is any different from any team in the NFL?

Overpaid for marginal talent... this IS a bit different from the way they used to do it, when they overpaid for aging talent, but overpaying for players is a very, very bad idea, because it leaves you less money to upgrade the weakness of your roster...

Apparently, you haven't taken a good look at the depth of your offensive line, or rather the lack of depth... doesn't look like you've really thought about how very thin y'all are at DB either... then there's the matter of what happens if Brunell gets injured...

Injuries in these areas, or even most of these areas, will make it VERY hard for the Skins to put as competitive a product on the field as they did from about the midpoint of the season until very late in the season... the weird thing is, you guys had VERY clear proof of the OL problems in the regular season finale and the playoffs, but the Skins STILL didn't do anything about their lack of depth... in fact, if anything their backups are WORSE now, substituting Tyson Walter and Mike Pucillo for Ray Brown and Corey Raymer... I have no love for Raymer, he's a stiff, but he's a world better than Tyson Walter...

Actually, the Skins would have preferred to sign Jonathan Goodwin, and he would have been a MUCH better option... but because of what they've splurged on thus far in the offseason, they just didn't feel like they could afford to meet his asking price... so their overpaying at other positions has already hampered their ability to upgrade at a position of need...

[silverbear]

We have signed 7 players so far which all hold specific roles in on the team.

The thing is, some of them represent upgrades for y'all, some of 'em we just can't know about, and some of them were utter mistakes, actually downgrades...

Brandon Lloyd and Randle El, upgrades...

Andre Carter, could be an upgrade, could be a mistake; will he suddenly revert to the form that he showed in his second season by moving back to DE, or was he a one hit wonder when he posted those 12.5 sacks...

Todd Collins, upgrade... he'll help Saunders get his system installed...

Christian Fauria, not an upgrade, not a downgrade... he'll adequately replace Robert Royal, though he's somewhat older...

Adam Archuleta, downgrade... he'll give the Skins something extra in run defense, but he's decidedly inferior to the departed Ryan Clark in pass defense...

Tyson Walter and Mike Pucillo, downgrades...

At best, I'd give the Skins a C for their moves, if ALL we're talking about is pure talent... but if we're considering the price paid for that talent, then it becomes easy to understand why they are mentioned as one of the "losers" in free agency this offseason in so many published analyses... meanwhile, the Boys show up as one of the "winners" in many of those same analyses... in fact, some of those analysts are more bullish on the Cowboys' moves than *I* am (I hate TO, no matter how good he is)...

[silverbear]

This is related to what happens on gameday how? :confused: :laugh1:

These days, the Pats and the Iggles are the models for how to build a team that can contend for the long haul... they do that by DRAFTING very, very well, then judiciously adding selected free agents... instead, they seem to focus their energy and their cap room on keeping their own home-grown talent signed...

[silverbear]

Wow. You think Ware is better than Marcus Washington, Cornellius Griffin, Andre Carter, and Lemar Marshall?

I think he's better than any of them were as rookies... I also think if he can avoid serious injuries, he's only gonna get better and better...

[silverbear]

What proof do you have that Gibbs doesn't have final say on personnel decisions?

Among other things, the way the Skins have had 2 years now to address their biggest problem, their offensive line (specifically, the total lack of depth on the OL)... the Gibbs I remember from the first time around had his Hogs, one of the best offensive lines in the game at the time... that was a team that could suffer an injury to a starter, and plug in somebody almost as good... that Gibbs, and that Bugel, would have never been satisfied with the depth they have now...

[silverbear]

OK, let me rephrase. The team has improved and thus the record should improve.

A more reasonable stance to adopt, for sure... and if the Skins have the same luck as they had in regard to injury as they had last year, they SHOULD improve...

I just kinda doubt that a team can be that fortunate two years in a row...

Meanwhile, would you concede that the Cowboys have also improved, thus the record should improve?? And this is with a whole lot of cap room to use to improve further, and we actually have more than one pick in the first 4 rounds of the upcoming draft...

The difference is, the Cowboys DID suffer their fair share of injuries, and perhaps more... lost our Pro Bowl OT in the 7th game (lozell Adams)... lost our starting MLB midway through the season, the spiritual leader of the defense (Dat Nguyen) a starting OLB later in the season (Al Singleton), and 2 of the backup LBs wound up on IR, too... we'd bring in a safety one week to fill a hole, then he'd wind up on IR the very next week (Derek Pagel)... so if they can manage to suffer fewer injuries (I'm not talking about going totally injury-free here, no team does that, and the Skins didn't get off totally free last season either), there is ample reason to think that our upgrades already in place, and the upgrades yet to come, will translate into greater success on the field...

Particularly when you factor in that the team has had a full season now to get the hang of their new 3-4 defense... that added familiarity will help their execution, too...

[silverbear]

How many sacks did Griffin have?

C'mon, HH, that's kinda dishonest... Griffin's job as a DT is to stuff the run, and he does that very, very well...

I love DeMarcus, think he's a star in the making, but he couldn't ever do what Griffin does...

And vice-versa, of course... BTW, I know you weren't the one who brought Griffin into this argument... what you should have done was stated that of the players offered for the point of comparison, the only LEGITIMATE comparisons would have been the linebackers mentioned...

[SkinsFan26]

Among other things, the way the Skins have had 2 years now to address their biggest problem, their offensive line (specifically, the total lack of depth on the OL)... the Gibbs I remember from the first time around had his Hogs, one of the best offensive lines in the game at the time... that was a team that could suffer an injury to a starter, and plug in somebody almost as good... that Gibbs, and that Bugel, would have never been satisfied with the depth they have now...

A team can't have stars at every position, much less 2nd stringers. The Skins do have one of the best O-lines in football and have added some depth this offseason.

At least the Skins have a talented set of starters on the O-line.

[silverbear]

So, I guess you're conceding that the Cowboys aren't going to win it all this year.

Because adding TO to your team equates to nothing except trying to buy wins.

It does indeed... but he's the exception to the Cowboys' approach this year, rather than the rule... the other signings were not of marquee names...

And even TO came at a surprisingly reasonable price... better still, the way his contract is constructed, the Boys can part ways with him at any time and only suffer a small cap hit, so they've covered themselves if he turns destructive again...

[silverbear]

Statistically Griffin's numbers were not that impressive, good, but not that impressive. But if you look at the skin's record when he was there opposed to when he wasnt, you would see that Griffin's payoff comes in his presence.

A good DT often doesn't show up on the stats sheet... he does the dirty work...

Griffin is a good DT... any Cowboys fan who tries to argue otherwise is being silly... the proof of that lies in how the defense's play improved last season when he came back from injury...

[silverbear]

You sure know a lot about football don't you.

Uhhhh, he wasn't the one who brought up Griffin's name in the first place...

He is better football player than Ware. Ask your friends here that know something.

First, now you're comparing apples to oranges...

Second, Ware was a freakin' ROOKIE... how 'bout we give him six years in the league, like Griffin has had, before we try to make such judgements?? We surely haven't seen his best football yet, and if he develops into a perennial double digit sack man, then I'll say that he's a better football player than Griffin...

But as I've said elsewhere in this thread, I think Cornelius Griffin is a pretty good DT... any team running a 4-3 defense would be lucky to have him (don't know if he'd hold up at NT)...

[silverbear]

Im just wondering why was there such a need for a Wide Reciever on the Cowboys. Im not trying to start any drama just wondering why?

Key and Glenn were both on the wrong side of 30, and after them, the only receiver they had worth a hammered crap was Patrick Crayton... you need more than 3 quality receivers these days... in fact, don't be surprised if the Cowboys make a run at another veteran free agent down the line (I'm holding out hope for Eric Moulds) , or draft a receiver early on, or both...

Most important, though, Owens is a PLAYMAKER... I don't like the sucker, at all, but I have to recognize that opposing defenses have to account for him... the Cowboys' other skill position players will be a little better for the added focus on TO, which translates into a little less focus on them... I'm thinking of Julius Jones here...

I didn't think you were trying to start anything, it was a legit question...

[SkinsFan26]

With all those FAs in 2000, what was your record? Exactly. Saying that it was good because they helped the defense is like saying you brought in a chandelier and some nice furniture to fix up one room of a haunted house. The house is still a piece of crap, just a little less crappy.

And I'm not going to go find Quincy Carter's stats, I dont need to. Numbers mean almost nothing in college. Andre Ware (considering I doubt you know who he is since you have obviously never watched college football, you can feel free to ask for an explantion) put up record numbers at Houston. He was maybe the biggest bust in NFL history. Danny Wuerful? Ryan Leaf? Any QB who's ever played for Texas Tech (That's a school in Lubbuck, Texas with a pass happy offense, think Steve Spurrier)? Whta have any of these guys ever done in the NFL after lighting it up in college?

If you had ever, even once, watched Auburn, you would know that teams put 8 in the box EVERY PLAY. On 3rd and 12 they had 8 in the box. Why? Because Auburn had 2 of the 3 best RBs in CF. He had the best O-Line in CF blocking for him. Even with all that, Auburn's defense won most of their games that year for them.

Ok, let's play the "they fill a hole" game:

Adam Archuleta: Worst starting coverage safety in football, brought in because Washington's safeties got burnt so badly last year. Brilliant?

Andre Carter: Tweener who gets pushed around by OT brough to help the worst pass rush in football. Makes sense?

Brandon Llyod and Antwaan Randle El: Brought in help an undersized, no talent WR core and both are smurfs with questionable hands. Wonderful?

Maybe you could shed some light on these signings for those of us who have actually watched football before?

You really should take some notes from Silver Bear. You are the worst poster on this entire site. I know that your fellow fans are embarrassed by the garbage you put into print.

Yeah, Antwaan Randle El, Brandon Lloyd, and Santana Moss are a bunch of no talent bums! Get real, moron!

[silverbear]

Yes, I agree. But the Skins are still the better football team. Just my opinion.

I think the only reason they were better last year was the injury factor... even with that factored in, the Boys ranked very close to the Skins in total offense and total defense...

If fully healthy, I'd say both teams were pretty much equal in terms of pure talent last year... and MY opinion is that the Cowboys have done a better job of upgrading their talent base, of addressing team weaknesses this offseason (with more to come, certainly more moves than the Skins have left for them)...

[silverbear]

I disagree, I think JJ is desperate (having not won a playoff game in 10 years and getting swept and humiliated by the Skins last year) and is trying to buy a championship.

:D

While you're obviously just trying to troll here, LOL, you have a point about the reason Jerruh made that particular splashy move... he DOES want to get the Boys back to the top in a hurry, and he feels that the Cowboys are close to contention...

[The30YardSlant]

You really should take some notes from Silver Bear. You are the worst poster on this entire site. I know that your fellow fans are embarrassed by the garbage you put into print.

Yeah, Antwaan Randle El, Brandon Lloyd, and Santana Moss are a bunch of no talent bums! Get real, moron!

I don't know about that, but I do know I'm embarrassed for you....

And where did I ever say, even once, that Santana Moss, Brandon Llyod, or Randle El and no talent? Never, that's where.

And you dont know anything, you are a small, insignifigant, worthless piece of Redskin homerism with no real thoughts or objections of your own. You show this by simply throwing around insults and not discussing anything in my post.

For the betterment of mankind, please go hurl yourself off the top of the capitol building ASAP.

[SkinsFan26]

I don't know about that, but I do know I'm embarrassed for you....

And where did I ever say, even once, that Santana Moss, Brandon Llyod, or Randle El and no talent? Never, that's where.

And you dont know anything, you are a small, insignifigant, worthless piece of Redskin homerism with no real thoughts or objections of your own. You show this by simply throwing around insults and not discussing anything in my post.

For the betterment of mankind, please go hurl yourself off the top of the capitol building ASAP.

From your post:
Brandon Llyod and Antwaan Randle El: Brought in help an undersized, no talent WR core and both are smurfs with questionable hands. Wonderful?

[The30YardSlant]

From your post:
Brandon Llyod and Antwaan Randle El: Brought in help an undersized, no talent WR core and both are smurfs with questionable hands. Wonderful?
Sorry, just meant to say Santana Moss. Yes, Sanatana Moss is great. Brandon Llyod couldnt catch a cold, and Randle El is barely a WR

[SkinsFan26]

While you're obviously just trying to troll here, LOL, you have a point about the reason Jerruh made that particular splashy move... he DOES want to get the Boys back to the top in a hurry, and he feels that the Cowboys are close to contention...

That's not trolling, it's very close to being true if not true.

TO was signed out of desperation. A team would have to be stupid or naive to sign him otherwise.

[menace]

You forgot the MOST important one....COWBOYS WIN THE SUPERBOWL!!

:starspin

This is the end of the 2006 season. Not the end of the world.

[The30YardSlant]

That's not trolling, it's very close to being true if not true.

TO was signed out of desperation. A team would have to be stupid or naive to sign him otherwise.

Desperation? We already had a solid WR core, we signed him because he is a great player. Please, stop talking.

[silverbear]

Yeah, but the Skins beat Dallas twice last year and addressed their weak points as well.

Not all that well, they didn't... they made some questionable moves... and they certainly haven't addressed ALL of their weak points... they remain bad when it comes to offensive line depth, they have serious depth issues in their secondary, and if they have to play a backup QB for any length of time, they're screwed...

BTW, Dallas' O-line still sucks.

That's just a BS thing to say, the kind of thing I'd expect from a troll... the Boys' offensive line was good enough last year to help the Boys rank just behind the Skins in total offense last year... this might be understandable if the Boys had a significant advantage in the offensive skill position players, but I don't think you'd agree that was the case, would you?? So, if the line "sucks", like you said, how do you explain the Skins' offensve averaging just FIVE YARDS more than the Cowboys did last year??

And since then, we've added Kyle Kosier and Jason Fabini, you guys have added Tyson Walter and Mike Pucillo... clear advantage, Cowboys...

If we're talking starters alone here, I like yours a little better... let me repeat that, a LITTLE better... but if we're talking the entire unit, backups included, well, your backups really DO suck... there isn't one of them who could make the Cowboys' 53 man roster...

I don't think that weakness has been addressed sufficiently yet.

The key word there is "yet"... got lots of cap room left, got high draft picks (and one of them will certainly be used on an OL, Jerry has said as much)...

And as I've said repeatedly, I don't think the Skins' weakness on the offensive line has been addressed sufficiently yet, either...

[SkinsFan26]

Sorry, just meant to say Santana Moss. Yes, Sanatana Moss is great. Brandon Llyod couldnt catch a cold, and Randle El is barely a WR

Brandon Lloyd was a pretty decent receiver against the Boys last year. He put up very respectable numbers on the 49ers. If he was the #1 anywhere else, say Minnesota, he would have been a 1200 yard 8 TD guy, without question.

Randle El is more than a #3 receiver. See this link:

ARE Video (http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=358D2LASDJTAK31H16XMM6CDMM)

[SkinsFan26]

Desperation? We already had a solid WR core, we signed him because he is a great player. Please, stop talking.

Desperation for a SB, not to improve the WR group.

[silverbear]

I dont think that the redskins had too many holes to fill-

Well, that's a remarkable silly thing to think... it's hard to take anything else you have to say too seriously, after reading that...

[The30YardSlant]

Brandon Lloyd was a pretty decent receiver against the Boys last year. He put up very respectable numbers on the 49ers. If he was the #1 anywhere else, say Minnesota, he would have been a 1200 yard 8 TD guy, without question.

Randle El is more than a #3 receiver. See this link:

ARE Video (http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=358D2LASDJTAK31H16XMM6CDMM)

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Brandon Llyod wouldnt be a 1200 yard WR if he was the #1 in Indianapolis. Please stop spewing the BS they speak of at ES.

[silverbear]

While we're at this relentless debate, I'm going to address a common misconception on this board.

Antwaan Randle El will be a huge addition for the Skins. He will get a few ST TD's.

He's had 5 special teams TDs in 64 games... that averages out to 1.25 special teams TDs per 16 game season... in no season has he had more than 2 special teams TDs...

Yet you're predicting a "few" (i.e. 3 or 4) special teams TDs from him this year?? Sounds pretty homeristic to me...

He will throw a few TD's.

LOL... there you go again... he hasn't had a "few" TD passes in his entire CAREER... the truth is, he's had 2 TD passes in 64 games... that's .5 TD passes per 16 game season... again, your prediction sounds homeristic to me...

In fact, if y'all get 2 TDs from via returns AND throwing the football, you should be out of your tiny mind with glee...

He will catch a few TD's. Someone at extremeskins put together a video. Have a look and tell me that he will not be an impact player next year.

What did they do, take all 17 TDs he's scored in his 4 seasons, and loop them together?? LOL...

You're talking about a guy who has never caught 50 passes in a season (his average is a hair over 40 a season), who has averaged 4.25 TDs per season... these are useful numbers, but hardly what I'd call an "impact player"...

[silverbear]

That was a taste of Cowboys logic. Like reliving the past. I'll puke if I hear how the Cowboys have won x/x games in this rivalry.

Looks like things are changing. :laugh1:

Oh, two games constitutes a trend, in your mind??

[The30YardSlant]

Oh, two games constitutes a trend, in your mind??

Relax man, let them have their moment in the sun. God knows it only happens once or so a decade.

[silverbear]

I love how every Boyz fan on here loves to quote stats to back up their arguments, yet ignores the stats that go against it. Stats like Washington having more tackles, more assisted tackles, more defensed passes, more interceptions, more plays behind the line of scrimmage.

Uhhh, it's not OUR job to make YOUR arguments for you... if you have stats that counter the ones that we bring to the table, bring 'em on... show us the numbers...

[SkinsFan26]

He's had 5 special teams TDs in 64 games... that averages out to 1.25 special teams TDs per 16 game season... in no season has he had more than 2 special teams TDs...

Yet you're predicting a "few" (i.e. 3 or 4) special teams TDs from him this year?? Sounds pretty homeristic to me...



LOL... there you go again... he hasn't had a "few" TD passes in his entire CAREER... the truth is, he's had 2 TD passes in 64 games... that's .5 TD passes per 16 game season... again, your prediction sounds homeristic to me...

In fact, if y'all get 2 TDs from via returns AND throwing the football, you should be out of your tiny mind with glee...



What did they do, take all 17 TDs he's scored in his 4 seasons, and loop them together?? LOL...

You're talking about a guy who has never caught 50 passes in a season (his average is a hair over 40 a season), who has averaged 4.25 TDs per season... these are useful numbers, but hardly what I'd call an "impact player"...

Blah blah...the Steelers run a little different offense than the Chiefs or Redskins. The Skins wouldn't have signed him if he wasn't going to be a big part of the offense. True.

[SkinsFan26]

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Brandon Llyod wouldnt be a 1200 yard WR if he was the #1 in Indianapolis. Please stop spewing the BS they speak of at ES.

He had 800 in SFran. Only a Cowboys fan would say that he couldn't get more elsewhere.

[SkinsFan26]

Oh, two games constitutes a trend, in your mind??

combine with the way the Skins are being built, yes. It won't be one-sided again for a long time. Therefore, a change in the trend has begun.

[The30YardSlant]

Blah blah...the Steelers run a little different offense than the Chiefs or Redskins. The Skins wouldn't have signed him if he wasn't going to be a big part of the offense. True.

Sure they would have. Danny Likes spending money, and wants to make his fans happy by signing guys who get talked about, not necessaily guys who are great players.

Fact: Antwaan Randle El had 30 catches as the #2 guy it Pittsburgh

Fact: He will be the #3 guy in Washington

Fact: He will be thrown to less in Washington than he was in Pittsburgh

Fact: You have no clue what you are talking about

Danny Boy overspeant for a punt returner who will get about 25-30 catches tops, nothing more.

[The30YardSlant]

He had 800 in SFran. Only a Cowboys fan would say that he couldn't get more elsewhere.

He was the ONLY WR in SF worth a damn. In Washington, he will be the #2 guy.

[The30YardSlant]

combine with the way the Skins are being built, yes. It won't be one-sided again for a long time. Therefore, a change in the trend has begun.

So instead of winning 14 out of 15, we'll just win 10 out of 12 or so, right? :lmao:

Hate to break it to ya, but this series has been one sided for a long time. If not for the Redskins great 5 year run or so in the 80s, Dallas would lead the series by 30+ games. As it stands, its a 20 game lead.

[silverbear]

I love how every Boyz fan on here loves to quote stats to back up their arguments, yet ignores the stats that go against it. Stats like Washington having more tackles, more assisted tackles,

That just MIGHT be explained by the fact that the Skins had more plays run against them (981 to 946)...

more defensed passes, more interceptions, more plays behind the line of scrimmage.

Meanwhile, the Boys gave up fewer first downs per game (16.0 to 16.1), they had the better 3rd down conversion rate (34.6 to 36.5), allowed fewer rushing TDs (13 to 15), allowed fewer runs of 20 yards plus (7 to 11), and had more sacks (37 to 35)...

Hmmmm, if you put ALL the numbers together, I'd say there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two defenses... and that was with the Cowboys putting in a whole new defense, one unlike anything they'd ever run before...

[SkinsFan26]

He was the ONLY WR in SF worth a damn. In Washington, he will be the #2 guy.



And Lloyd will get 800-1100 yards in Washington.

[silverbear]

Yet somehow, the Skins "trolls" never know what they're talking about. :rolleyes:

If you're here to talk football, you're not a troll... if you're slinging sarcastic insults at the Boys and their fans, if you're just posting to provoke a reaction, then you're a troll...

So far, I don't really see you as a troll, but of course only you know what's in your heart...

And most of those Skins "trolls" NEVER bring any statistical arguments to back up their trollish opinions... you have at least tried to support your arguments with FACTS...

[The30YardSlant]

And Lloyd will get 800-1100 yards in Washington.

So Moss will have 1500 yards, Llyod will have 1000 yards, and Randle El will have 700 yards

That's 3200 yards. I guess by your logic, Brunell will not be throwing to anyone else all year. Not Portis, not Cooley, not anybody.

Here's what will really happen. Moss will get about 1400 yards, Llyod will get 600-700 and Randle El will get about 400

[Bizwah]

I was comparing their value for their teams. You know, I never called you a homer. But I can definitely say it is homerish to call a player who runs the whole defense and STILL makes plays as simply a "complimentary piece", simply because he isn't a big name.





Great. He does his job, I never stated otherwise.



This is his role, what else is supposed to do? It seems to me you just prefer Ware's role over Marshall's, and that is why you feel he is a better player. They did their jobs exactly how they were supposed to. I don't think if Ware was thrust into Marshall's role he'd have done half as well. He would've been out of position half of the time, filling the wrong gap on running plays, or outright getting beat in coverage. Yet this is just IMO, because it's very likely Ware will never be asked to play MLB.

Your guy does his job based on how well the others in front of him play. If your DL fails to keep the OL off of him, undoubtedly he will struggle.

Ware takes on OL nearly every play.

Bottom Line:

Ware is the superior player based on how he changes the game. Sure they are two different players. But right now, who would you rather have? A player that requires double teams and can get to the QB.....or a MLB that needs a good DL to be effective?

I'm not saying Marshall is a bad player. He wouldn't fit on our defense, but he's very solid....and solid only.

[silverbear]

For one, we're comparing what both players did in two totally different roles. It's foolish to say Ware could do Marshall's job, because we really have no idea about Ware's football smarts. GW's middle linebacker has to know the playbook like his ABC's and make major adustments on the field. Ware, being a former DE, has never been put in that position and it's foolish to say he could do a great job of it.

I agree that nearly every GM would take Ware over Marshall, but not because of their performances in 2005. They would because Marshall went undrafted, and Ware was highly regarded. They would because Marshall has been in the league for a number of years, and Ware is going into his sophmore season. It's expected that Ware will just improve off his already impressive rookie season. There really isn't any discussion in that regard, yet that doesn't diminsh the wonderful job Marshall did last year.


Gamebreaker, you're quite level headed and reasonable... props for your ability to make a good argument, while at the same time being able to acknowledge when one of your antagonists makdes a good point too...

[silverbear]

A team can't have stars at every position, much less 2nd stringers.

Who's talkin' about "stars"?? Once again, you drag in a transparent straw man, to try to derail this little debate onto turf that you find more to your liking...

The Skins do have one of the best O-lines in football and have added some depth this offseason.

No, they don't, and no, they haven't... they have a GOOD offensive line, but it features exactly one player who has EVER been in the Pro Bowl... and what they've added for depth is a joke...

OK, lemme rephrase that-- Tyson Walter is a joke... I've seen the guy play for years, and I can testify to that with complete confidence... Pucillo, he may be OK, but he really doesn't have a particularly impressive resume at this point... and the rest of your backups, well, they are dreck, plain and simple:

OG Jon Alston, 0 NFL games played...

OG Jim Jones, 0 NFL games played...

OG Ikechukwu Ndukwe, 0 NFL games played...

OT Jim Molinaro, 14 NFL games played, 0 starts... got into 11 games as a rookie, only 3 his second year... this suggests the coaches weren't all that thrilled with what he gave him the year before (though of course, part of the reason for that is the health of their OTs all last year)...

That's 4 backups, with a total of 14 NFL games played, and nary an NFL start among them... on a normal team, 3 of those guys would be likely early cuts, but the Skins will be forced to keep some of them around...

So, the BEST backup you have is Pucillo... contrast that to the Cowboys' backups:

OT Marc Colombo... 23 NFL games played, 7 starts... a former first round draft pick, his career has been derailed by injury... I'd be worried about him if was a starter, he does seem kind of brittle, but he can step in short term and do you a better job... given that the Skins' only backup OTs are Walter and Molinaro, I can categorically say that Colombo is better than either of them...

C/OG Andre Gurode... 60 NFL games played, 44 starts... he might wind up beating out Al Johnson, but given that Al started 31 of the last 32 games at center, I'm listing him as the starter for now... but either way, they're superior to what the Skins can line up as a backup at C...

OG Stephen Peterman... 3 NFL games played, 0 starts... if he doesn't step it up in camp this year, he might not make the 53 man roster...

C/OG Matt Tarullo... 0 NFL games played, 0 starts... not a sure bet the make the 53 man roster...

OG Cory Procter... 0 NFL games played, 0 starts... I'll be quite surprised if he makes the team...

OG Shannon Snell... 0 NFL games played, 0 starts...

Colombo and Gurode are better than any backup lineman the Skins have, Peterman is as good, Tarullo, Procter and Snell probably don't factor into the equation... and the Boys might just bring in another FA offensive lineman to improve their depth, and are VERY likely to draft one in the first 3 rounds of the upcoming draft...

At least the Skins have a talented set of starters on the O-line.

That much, I'll give you... and if those starters stay REAL healthy, your offense will be potent...

I just doubt that they can stay as healthy as they did last year... and if they don't, your offense will soon start to struggle...

[silverbear]

You really should take some notes from Silver Bear.

That catches me by surprise, I didn't think you had a very high opinion of my debating style...

But thanks for the compliment...

[silverbear]

That's not trolling, it's very close to being true if not true.

True or not, and I appreciate that you've shown some flexibility in your wording, if the intent is to provoke folks, then it's trolling...

Most of the time, I think you try to avoid trolling, but from time to time, I'm guessing when you're ticked at HH, you wander over the line... just remember that what will get you respect in here is to state your arguments with respect...

I don't go to other teams' message boards often, but when I do, I try to give respect... and not only do I generally get respect in return, I actually make a few friends along the way... heck, I have some of the more fanatic Iggles fans from their newsgroup who give me grief when I haven't posted over there in a while... IGGLES FANS??

Now, I don't suck up, I still speak my mind... but I strive to state my case reasonably, and I strive to listen to the arguments made countering that case... and when a legitimate point is raised, I acknowledge it...

As a result, I rarely get accused of trolling... if the truth were to be known, I think you're probably all right, you just need to stop letting some of our regulars in here jerk your chain...

I like talking football with fans of other teams, if those fans are decent guys... I dislike jerks, intensely...

[BigDFan5]

While we're at this relentless debate, I'm going to address a common misconception on this board.

Antwaan Randle El will be a huge addition for the Skins. He will get a few ST TD's. He will throw a few TD's. He will catch a few TD's. Someone at extremeskins put together a video. Have a look and tell me that he will not be an impact player next year.

http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=358D2LASDJTAK31H16XMM6CDMM

Another common misconception

El had 1 TD last season

He has passed for 2 TDs in HIS WHOLE CAREER

He has returned 1 kickoff for a TD in HIS WHOLE CAREER

Punt returns is where he is dangerous returning 4 for TDs in his career

Last season he accounted for 4 total TD's and 3 lost fumbles, you guys gave him 30 million

[silverbear]

Brandon Lloyd was a pretty decent receiver against the Boys last year. He put up very respectable numbers on the 49ers. If he was the #1 anywhere else, say Minnesota, he would have been a 1200 yard 8 TD guy, without question.

Given that he's never had more than 750 yards in any season, and that he's never had more than 6 TDs in any season, I'd say there's a LOT of question about that one... in fact, I'd say it's rather silly to project those kinds of numbers onto him...

Particularly not when he was the Niners' number one receiver, and will be the number two for the Skins...

Randle El is more than a #3 receiver.

He'll be the number 3 receiver for the Skins, unless Brandon Lloyd is a LOT worse than your projections... his career numbers are that of a number 3 receiver too... again, you seem to be anticipating that just because these two signed with the Skins, they'll suddenly crank out career-best numbers, indeed numbers FAR better than anything they've produced before...

Perhaps a certain amount of that is understandable, after y'all watched Santana Moss put up career numbers last year, but it's illogical to assume that because he did, they will too... consider that they also signed David Patten last year, and he was a disappointment for them (even before he got hurt)... so just because the Skins picked them, it doesn't automatically mean that they made the right decision...

I think a reasonable expectation for Lloyd and Randle El, assuming neither has to miss much time, is 75-100 catches... which will, of course, be an upgrade for the Skins, but not nearly the upgrade you seem to think they'll provide... and of course, if they put up those kinds of numbers, that will mean that Moss and Cooley won't catch quite as many balls as they did last year... which might be a good thing, a more diversified passing attack, so don't think I'm insulting them...

[silverbear]

Desperation for a SB, not to improve the WR group.

Your point is not invalid, but maybe your rhetoric is bit hyperbolic, a bit over the top... think you could reconsider the word "desperate", and come up with something more accurate??

I think that Jerry gambled, for sure... but I think that he likes doing that... this is the guy who traded for Charles Haley, who went out and gave Deion an obscene contract... and though I know he burns to win, I think it's extreme to characterize this move as "desperation"... after all, he did get a really good, really productive wide receiver (who just happens to be a world-class jerk as well)... and a desperate man wouldn't have written such a smart contract, he would have just thrown the money at TO, consequences be d***ed...

[silverbear]

Relax man, let them have their moment in the sun. God knows it only happens once or so a decade.

I'm relaxed, I just find it funny how, after years of the extremest frustration, the Skins grab 2 wins against the Boys, and suddenly they're on a streak like the Boys enjoyed against them...

This is, of course, quite comical...

[silverbear]

Blah blah...

English translation-- I don't have any effective counter for Bear's stats, so I'll just blow them off with a "blah blah"...

I love how you guys hate having to deal with statistical fact... you try to tell me they don't tell the whole story, but y'know, I have found over the years that if you know what you're looking for, you CAN analyze a team pretty accurately by looking at the stats sheet...

the Steelers run a little different offense than the Chiefs or Redskins. The Skins wouldn't have signed him if he wasn't going to be a big part of the offense. True.

So, you're standing by your claim of a "few" TDs on special teams, and a "few" TDs throwing the ball?? OK, we'll file that away, and get back to you at the end of the season... if the guy has scored 6 TDs combined in those 2 areas, I'll concede that I was wrong... will you be equally honest when (not if) he doesn't put up the kinds of numbers you're suggesting he will??

[silverbear]

He had 800 in SFran.

No, he didn't... his best year was last year, when he had 733 yards...

Only a Cowboys fan would say that he couldn't get more elsewhere.

Only a Skins fan would say that just because he's become a Redskin, he'll automatically post numbers nearly 40 percent better than he's ever posted before... David Patten didn't, in fact he put up subpar numbers for him...

And why would ANYBODY expect him to put up such improved numbers, when he's going from being his team's primary target, their number one receiver, to being the number two receiver for the Skins... he has a LOT more talent around him that can catch the ball than he had with the Niners, those guys will get their touches, and that will come at the expense of Lloyd...

Really, you seem to believe that Lloyd is fated to be next Santana Moss, with your talk about 1200 yard seasons... that is a totally unrealistic expectation, the kind of thing that gets a buy branded a homer...

[silverbear]

combine with the way the Skins are being built, yes. It won't be one-sided again for a long time. Therefore, a change in the trend has begun.

Oh, you're saying the trend is toward a more competitive series...

I don't have a problem with that, I thought that you were talking about the Skins starting a string of domination to rival the one the Cowboys recently enjoyed...

I don't see either team getting to that point again anytime soon; in fact, I still can't figure out how in God's name we were able to extend that one as far as we did, often we were the clearly weaker team...

I just misunderstood you on this one... my bad...

[silverbear]

And Lloyd will get 800-1100 yards in Washington.

Well, that's down from your ORIGINAL claim... something about 1200 yards, IIRC...

I've made my predictions already, between Lloyd and Randle El, I anticipate 75-100 catches... given each guy's career yards per catch averages (a combined 13.2 YPC), that would work out to maybe 1000-1350 yards between them... 8-10 TDs combined...

The only way I see those numbers improving significantly is if Santana Moss were to get hurt fairly early in the season...

[Gamebreaker]

With all those FAs in 2000, what was your record? Exactly. Saying that it was good because they helped the defense is like saying you brought in a chandelier and some nice furniture to fix up one room of a haunted house. The house is still a piece of crap, just a little less crappy.

So Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, and Mark Carrier were supposed to play offense too? Just give up. Your reasoning changes more than the Bush Administration.

And I'm not going to go find Quincy Carter's stats, I dont need to.

Oh yes, you do. To prove one player had a better college career than another, you would need to actually provide that player's statistics to back it up. The fact that you refuse to do so only shows you have as little faith in your argument as I do. :lmao:

Numbers mean almost nothing in college. Andre Ware (considering I doubt you know who he is since you have obviously never watched college football, you can feel free to ask for an explantion) put up record numbers at Houston. He was maybe the biggest bust in NFL history. Danny Wuerful? Ryan Leaf? Any QB who's ever played for Texas Tech (That's a school in Lubbuck, Texas with a pass happy offense, think Steve Spurrier)? Whta have any of these guys ever done in the NFL after lighting it up in college?

You are so pathetic. We were never talking about the NFL. Stop backpedaling and trying to come up with irrelevant points and just address the issue. YOU said Quincy Carter had a better college career than Jason Campbell. This is false, EVERYONE knows it's false, including you. So somehow this has WHAT to do with the NFL? :lmao: Keep spinning, man. I'm loving it over here.

The rest of your post was nonsense, it's not worth responding to. It's all your opinion, and you brought no evidence to back it up. Why bother countering an argument that you can't even prove. Only an idiot what say those things about those players, you definitely have that hyperbole thing down pat. :rolleyes:

[Gamebreaker]

I think he was making a more general point, that in the past the Skins' spending sprees haven't translated into success on the field... and while there are obviously differences in the specifics of each year's situations, as a generic argument it is not without merit...

Especially when all we heard from you Skins fans last year was how their sudden restraint in free agent spending was proof that Gibbs was having a positive effect on Danny Boy, teaching him restaint and the value of making shrewder personnel decisions... you talked about how constantly shuffling players on a wholesale basis was damaging to "continuity" and "cohesiveness", and how Danny Boy seemed to have FINALLY learned that less...

Then this year, Gibbs is actually buying into Danny Boy's old philosophy, and you guys are now crowing about how you're adding all this new talent... fpr the strangest reason, I can't seem to find ONE of you who are still backing that "continuity" theory...

It would be nice if you guys would pick one argument, and stick with it...

It would be nice if I wasn't stereotyped and generalized with every Skins fan you encountered last season. How long have I been a member here? Thank you. You are very liberal with the word "you." You won't find me saying all of you cowboys fans think Ware is better than Washington just because one of you do. On regards to continuity, we're returning 18 out of 22 starters and all of the core players who were instrumental in our success last season will still be there. Where is the lack of continuity?

Furthermore, when he jumps around from point to point, never actually defending his argument when I counter it. It shows he really doesn't have any merit at all. There is no such thing as 'buying a championship', unless Snyder goes to the league and offers a large amount for a Lombardi Trophy. Which Snyder hasn't done, which means he's done nothing different from any other team in this league.

[Gamebreaker]

Actually, the Skins would have preferred to sign Jonathan Goodwin, and he would have been a MUCH better option... but because of what they've splurged on thus far in the offseason, they just didn't feel like they could afford to meet his asking price... so their overpaying at other positions has already hampered their ability to upgrade at a position of need...

That is your opinion, not a fact. No one knows why Goodwin wasn't signed, and unless you were at Redskin Park when he made his visit, I'd expect you not to assume the reason and only deal with facts.

[Gamebreaker]

Among other things, the way the Skins have had 2 years now to address their biggest problem, their offensive line (specifically, the total lack of depth on the OL)... the Gibbs I remember from the first time around had his Hogs, one of the best offensive lines in the game at the time... that was a team that could suffer an injury to a starter, and plug in somebody almost as good... that Gibbs, and that Bugel, would have never been satisfied with the depth they have now...

So basically, you have nothing to base that assertion on. Gibbs drafted two lineman last year to address the OL. One is still a work in progress, the other had a season ending injury. Gibbs has made numerous signings since he took over for the OL.

Futhermore, the Hogs weren't exactly highly regarded before Gibbs and Bugel got ahold of them. Joe Jacoby went undrafted, Jeff Bostic was cut as a long snapper from the Eagles, George Starke was old as dirt, Russ Grimm and Mark May were the only players drafted by Gibbs. And only May was seen as a big prospect coming out of college. When Raleigh Mckenzie came in, he was drafted in the 11th round. You may remember how good the Hogs were, but you don't remember how they were obtained.

To say the Redskins haven't addressed the OL simply because they haven't gone out and signed big name lineman would fly in the face of what made Gibbs successful in the past. You never know, Bugel could coach Walter into being a good player. He did it for Dockery, who had his best season last year. Bostic was a long snapper, and he turned him into a Pro Bowl lineman. Do your history.

[Gamebreaker]

Uhhh, it's not OUR job to make YOUR arguments for you... if you have stats that counter the ones that we bring to the table, bring 'em on... show us the numbers...

I would never enter a discussion where I knew I was wrong, unlike some people around here. I would bring both sides of the argument to the table and explain why the positives outweigh negatives and I am right. :) If you can't do that, you obviously don't have much faith in your stance or you're ability to debate it.

[Gamebreaker]

If you're here to talk football, you're not a troll... if you're slinging sarcastic insults at the Boys and their fans, if you're just posting to provoke a reaction, then you're a troll...

So far, I don't really see you as a troll, but of course only you know what's in your heart...

And most of those Skins "trolls" NEVER bring any statistical arguments to back up their trollish opinions... you have at least tried to support your arguments with FACTS...

Thank you. The 'troll' statements annoy me because a number of members here have pulled it out when they've lost the debate and have nothing left to say. I'm glad someone here is trying to be objective in this thread.

[Gamebreaker]

Your guy does his job based on how well the others in front of him play. If your DL fails to keep the OL off of him, undoubtedly he will struggle.

Ware takes on OL nearly every play.

Bottom Line:

Ware is the superior player based on how he changes the game. Sure they are two different players. But right now, who would you rather have? A player that requires double teams and can get to the QB.....or a MLB that needs a good DL to be effective?

I'm not saying Marshall is a bad player. He wouldn't fit on our defense, but he's very solid....and solid only.

I have nothing else to say on this. Can we just agree to disagree, because neither of us will ever see both players switch roles and see how well one would do the other anyway.

[Gamebreaker]

Gamebreaker, you're quite level headed and reasonable... props for your ability to make a good argument, while at the same time being able to acknowledge when one of your antagonists makdes a good point too...

Thanks. Props from a Boyz fan, who knew? :) :laugh2:

[jrumann59]

You should really do your research and stop making ridiculous statements. Please prove how Carter played better in college than Jason Campbell.

Campbell's career college numbers were 496-779, a 63% completion percentage, for 6,512 yards, 40 touchdowns and 21 interceptions. I guess you'll be finding numbers to beat those, right? :lmao:

Here is Q-Balls stats from 3 years of College

------G/GS--Att--Cmp--Pct.--Yds---INT--TD
1998-11/11--290--176-.607--2484----9---12
1999-11/11--380--216-.568--2713----6---17
2000-07/07--183---91-.497--1250---10----6
Total 29/29--853--483-.566--6447---25---35

Q-Ball Avg stat per game
---------------29--17-.586--222-----.8---1.2
Here are J. Campbells

------G/GS--Att--Cmp--Pct.--Yds---INT--TD
2001-09/09--142--89--.627--1117-----4---4
2002-13/13--149--94--.631--1215-----5--11
2003-13/13--293-181--.618--2267-----8--10
2004-13/13--270-188--.696--2700-----7--20
Total 48/48--854-552--.646--7299----24--45

J. Campbell avg per game
--------------18--12--.666---150----.5---1

To me they look very similar though it is hard to tell because Q-Ball was on worse teams. Hopefully J Campbell isn't nearly the headcase Q-Ball was.

[jrumann59]

After looking at my numbers we can do either take J Campbells average and see what they would be over 29 games or Q_ball's over 48. Lets see we will do both.

Q-Ball first over 48 games like J Campbell

his line would read:

-Att----Comp---PCT----Yds----TD--INT
1421----816---.574---10,656---57--38

Now J Campbell over 29 games
-Att----Comp---PCT----Yds----TD--INT
522-----348---.666---4350----29--15

Using this method and going by their career averages Q-Ball would have destroyed J Campbell's nubers over 4 years and 48 games and beat his numbers if J-Campbell only played 29 games like Q-Ball did. I know it isn't fair but Q-Ball out performed Jason in all categoies except INT, Completion %. So I would say they are very comparable QB's in college even though Q-Ball accomplished his stas after throwing for the cubs.

[silverbear]

It would be nice if I wasn't stereotyped and generalized with every Skins fan you encountered last season.

That wasn't intended to assign blame to you personally, that was the generic "you"... it was a comment on the inconsistent arguments you get from a lot of Skins fans, arguments that flip-flop with remarkable frequency...

But even so, I don't care for it when I'm stereotyped either, so I'll try to find another way to phrase that argument in the future...

On regards to continuity, we're returning 18 out of 22 starters and all of the core players who were instrumental in our success last season will still be there. Where is the lack of continuity?

Actually, I personally think that the "continuity" concept is overrated in the NFL... every year, teams move players on and off their roster, in fact the norm is about a 20-25 percent turnover...

There is no such thing as 'buying a championship', unless Snyder goes to the league and offers a large amount for a Lombardi Trophy. Which Snyder hasn't done, which means he's done nothing different from any other team in this league.

You started out with a good point, then you carried it too far... Snyder hasn't done anything different from any other team in the league?? You know another team that will have one draft pick in the first four rounds of this draft?? Or a team that has already traded away a pick in the next draft during the course of the preseason...

Of course Danny Boy is doing things differently, he's basically scrapping the draft as a means of improving the team... the Skins drafted 4 players in 2004, 2 of whom have actually contributed to the team at this point... they drafted 6 last year, 1 of whom contributed, 1 of whom they hope will be their QB of the future... so, in 2 years of drafting, they've added 3 contributors, 1 who might well be a future contributor... and though this is a little off the argument, nobody they've drafted after the 2nd round has made much of a contribution to date... given that they only have a 2nd round pick in this year's draft, it's quite likely that they're not gonna get much help in this draft with an assortment of 5th through 7th round picks...

With the salary cap, you NEED to use the draft to build a long-term winner... Danny Boy doesn't do that... I'd say that's doing things differently...

BTW, I don't refer to Snyder that way to piss you off, he's just the one thing about the Skins that I DO loathe, I think he's a miserable excuse for a human being, and I can't bring myself to give him any respect... so 90 per cent of the time, he's Danny Boy to me...

[silverbear]

That is your opinion, not a fact. No one knows why Goodwin wasn't signed, and unless you were at Redskin Park when he made his visit, I'd expect you not to assume the reason and only deal with facts.

Oh, I think making assumptions in this situation is perfectly reasonable... the Skins' track record is, when they bring a guy in for a visit, he almost always signs... that Goodwin didn't suggests only a few possible scenarios:

1) They gave him a physical while he was there, and a red flag showed up... if that was the case here, the guy's made visits elsewhere since dropping by Redskins Park, and if he were damaged goods, we would likely have heard about it...

2) Goodwin came in and made a jerk of himself... that has happened before, but if it was the case here, you can bet we would have read about it in the Post or the Times... they reported on his signing, of course they would have wanted to report on why the Skins chose to pass on him...

3) Goodwin took a look around, and decided he didn't like what he saw... given that he needs a job, and Danny Boy pays REAL good, and given that there was a role for him on the team, what with the utter lack of quality depth, and given that Gibbs and Bugel are known to be players' coaches, does that make any sense to you??

4) Goodwin wanted too much money... tending to support that theory are the reports that the Skins have about 4.5 mil in cap room left, and are running out of contracts to renegotiate, combined with reports that Gibbs wants to find a starting-caliber OLB and another decent DB (wouldn't have thought there was a pressing need at OLB, but I do recognize the need for more depth at LB)...

So, I considered all those possibilities, along with the obvious fact that Goodwin was their first choice... then I looked at the two guys who they brought in instead, guys who aren't anywhere NEAR as good as Goodwin, and I jumped to the "assumption" that cap constraints kept them from pulling this one off...

An assumption, yes, but one rooted in logical analysis... it might annoy you, but I will from time to time make such assumptions... but I will if called upon defend the thought processes that led to those assumptions, as I have here...

[silverbear]

So basically, you have nothing to base that assertion on. Gibbs drafted two lineman last year to address the OL. One is still a work in progress, the other had a season ending injury.

Actually, the other seems to have had a CAREER ending injury, at least in Washington... Wilson doesn't seem to show up on their roster at this point... the other has played in 14 games in two seasons thus far, with no starts... worse, his playing time DECLINED in his second season...

Gibbs has made numerous signings since he took over for the OL.

Yeah, he has, but rather questionable moves for the most part... Rabach was brought in to replace Raymer... Casey is an upgrade over the guy he replaced, but he's a long way from the elite centers in the league... and he's the BEST player they've brought in...

Walter is a total joke, but I guess y'all are gonna have to find that out for yourself... Pucillo is the definition of a fringe player... he has gotten significant playing time in two different seasons, 2003 (where he started 12 times for the Bills) and last year (where he got 6 starts for the Lions)...

In 03, the Bills ranked 30th in the NFL, averaging 271.8 yards per game in total offense... in 05, the Browns ranked 27th, averaging 284.8 ypg... bad offenses seem to follow him around...

OK, obviously he wasn't the ONLY reason for those bad offenses, but it's equally clear that neither team had a very good offensive line... we also know that Pucillo last 3 years with Buffalo, a team that has struggled on offense over that time, so they either cut him, or made no effort to re-sign him when he got a restricted free agent offer... and the team that DID sign him parted company with him after just one season... this does not suggest that those teams thought very highly of him...

So bottom line, other than the single act of signing Rabach (a move I'd grade as a C move), Gibbs' response to the Skins' depth problem has been to bring in 4 bottom of the barrel guys, late round draft picks and fringe veterans (or worse)...

To say the Redskins haven't addressed the OL simply because they haven't gone out and signed big name lineman would fly in the face of what made Gibbs successful in the past. You never know, Bugel could coach Walter into being a good player.

The proof is in the performance, pal, and we all saw what happened to the Skins' offense when the first injuries struck... it wasn't pretty, and should be all the proof YOU need to convince you that their backups aren't real good... and if you're counting on Bugel to make a silk purse out the sow's ear that is Tyson Walter, well, all I can say is good luck to you...

You don't seem to like me stereotyping you with other Skins fans, but I have to note, in debate after debate after debate with Skins fans the last 2 years on the OL, I've heard "Gibbs can fix it, he can coach 'em up", or "Buges can fix it, he can coach 'em up"...

You guys seem think those two are infallible, that they can turn any stiff into a good player, and that's just laughable... I will state on the record right now that unless Gibbs can find a way to get his hands on one or two QUALITY backups before the regular season rolls around (and I don't see how he can, with his current cap situation and limited draft options), the Skins will be screwed if the injury bug bites on that OL...

It's the same prediction I made the last 2 years, and as I've endlessly noted, I was right then, too... both times, I really, really expected Gibbs to address that weakness aggressively, because I think he thinks like I think, that the secret to playing winning football is building a good, preferably dominating, offensive line... and because most every team suffers injuries in the trenches in the course of a season, that means having at least decent quality backups in place...

Combine that with a severe lack of quality depth in the secondary, and a shaky situation at quarterback (this year), and you have the 3 areas of the team that could blow up on them, and ruin their season... I know that in this age of the salary cap, all teams have weak spots, even the ones that eventually hoist the Lombardi Trophy... but these weaknesses are SO glaring, I really can't believe Gibbs hasn't done more to address them...