RECAP: Dan Shonka (Ourlads Draft Guide) with Norm on The Ticket...

[trickblue]

Shonka:
VY is a first round draft choice, but he is a developmental prospect. He has athleticism and ability but it will be the toughest road any player has gone through in ten years because of the scrutiny.
By the time VY is ready to go, his contract will be up and he can go elswhere. He will probably take at least two years. I don't know if Cutler is any closer. He didn't play with great talent level at Vandy.
On OT: Marcus McNeill is a player that is worthy of the #18. He is what we call a "waist-bender". That is he tends to bend at the waist instead of getting low.
Andrew Whitworth from LSU may be moving up because of us. We have been touting him for a while. He has started 4 years in the SEC and done well. This is a player to watch.
On WR: You could make an argument for Chad Jackson being worthy of #18. Santonio Holmes is the only other WR we think is worthy here. Holmes is basically another Terry Glenn. Jackson will have to learn the pro game as he averaged 10 yards a catch because of the system. He has the ability to make YAC when given the chance, plus he has good size and great speed.
On FS: There are some possibilities here. Donte Whitner from OSU is a nice player, but he is a bit short (5'10"). He can support the run and has good coverage skills. Jason Allen before his hip injury was really a nice player. He is back now, but the hip is suspect. He could warrant #18 and has tremendous ability.
On LB: There are some tremendous LB's available.
At this point, The Ticket dropped the ball and cut into the middle of the interview with 10 minutes of commercials... sorry...

[TheHustler]

Thanks for the recap

[Portland Fanatic]

After the ability Whitworth showed at the combine...i'd be happy to land him. Most draft boards show him as a RT, but I disagree. He can play both...I don't think he gave up a sack in his last two season's starting ALL games at LT.

He showed to be a really good athlete with good feet at the combine...if we take him in the second...i'm totally fine with it.

[t.o.boys81]

Thanks for the info.

[dbair1967]

I liekd Whitworth alot until the SEC Championship and he was hjust terrible that day...the UGA DE's made him look really, really bad...not sure if he was hurt or something that day but Whitworth was almost as bad as Petitti and Tucker were last yr

David

[CrazyCowboy]

Great recap--thanks

[t.o.boys81]

Great recap--thanks

Love your picture with Jerry Jones.

[SALADIN]

After the ability Whitworth showed at the combine...i'd be happy to land him. Most draft boards show him as a RT, but I disagree. He can play both...I don't think he gave up a sack in his last two season's starting ALL games at LT.

He showed to be a really good athlete with good feet at the combine...if we take him in the second...i'm totally fine with it.

I agree Port.

Whitworth would be an immediate upgrade over any of the backup tackles that we have.

[Rush 2112]

This guy thinks NFL scouts and GM's are moving Whitworth up the board because of him:lmao: :laugh2: :laugh1: :laugh1:
Dumb and arrogant make for a dangerous combination.

[hipfake08]

I get the Ourlads Newsletters and guides to help me out.
They should be printing their draft guide this week and I'll be getting it next week.
Then a follow up draft projection.

[lkelly]

Thanks for the recap. Are there any other players that can pay Ourlads to pump up their draft stock? Why bother scouting all year when your GM can just buy their book.

[DLCassidy]

Whitworth=Petitti

[Charles]

Shonka:
VY is a first round draft choice, but he is a developmental prospect. He has athleticism and ability but it will be the toughest road any player has gone through in ten years because of the scrutiny.
By the time VY is ready to go, his contract will be up and he can go elswhere. He will probably take at least two years. I don't know if Cutler is any closer. He didn't play with great talent level at Vandy.
I get a good laugh out this crap.

This is the same crap they said about Vick, McNabb and Rothesberger ( to some extent).

They've had the most success of any QBs in the past 7 drafts.

The so called safe picks or most ready to play have led in the collosal bust category.

[jterrell]

Its weird really because Ourlads has almost exclusively touted raw talent and ignored actual performance. They had Kareem Larrimore rated a 2nd round prospect and Derek Ross a 1st.

Dallas stopped subscribing to their service and many other teams have as well recently.

Not sure at all why VY's road would be any tougher than any rookie 1st round QB. I would think it depends on where he goes. I mean if he gets drafted by Tennessee and they have McNair there for 1 more year and win games is VY gonan get scrutinized as much as Lienart with say the Jets or Manning with the Giants?

The one thing folks miss about Young is that when all else fails and he has no idea who is open he can still tuck the ball and get some yardage.

VY had great WRs at UT as a freshman but after that they had no WRs of consequence at all beyond developing 18 year olds.

[kartr]

Its weird really because Ourlads has almost exclusively touted raw talent and ignored actual performance. They had Kareem Larrimore rated a 2nd round prospect and Derek Ross a 1st.

Dallas stopped subscribing to their service and many other teams have as well recently.

Not sure at all why VY's road would be any tougher than any rookie 1st round QB. I would think it depends on where he goes. I mean if he gets drafted by Tennessee and they have McNair there for 1 more year and win games is VY gonan get scrutinized as much as Lienart with say the Jets or Manning with the Giants?

The one thing folks miss about Young is that when all else fails and he has no idea who is open he can still tuck the ball and get some yardage.

VY had great WRs at UT as a freshman but after that they had no WRs of consequence at all beyond developing 18 year olds.

I also like how he said that VY wont be ready to go until his contract is up and then said that it will take him 2 years. Is he saying that Vince is going to sign a 2 year contract. LOL!

[5Stars]

I also like how he said that VY wont be ready to go until his contract is up and then said that it will take him 2 years. Is he saying that Vince is going to sign a 2 year contract. LOL!

Hey, kartr, how's it going?

Man, it's nice to see you around here again! Man, we got some other serious issues with the QB's of the Cowboy going on again! Have you read those posts of "drewbledsoe4mvp"? Now, that boy has more man love then you did for the "great one"!

Then we got Henson, playing over the pond, eating good German food! We got Romo, somewhere right now playing golf!

Ohhhhh, how I long for the days of Horseface....where is Hutch nowdays, anyway? Anyone know?

How's rehab going for QC? What ever happened to that grievence that the NFLPA was going to file on your behalf?

The Dallas Cowboys NEED A QB! ;)

[NorthDalal]

Its weird really because Ourlads has almost exclusively touted raw talent and ignored actual performance. They had Kareem Larrimore rated a 2nd round prospect and Derek Ross a 1st.

Dallas stopped subscribing to their service and many other teams have as well recently.

Not sure at all why VY's road would be any tougher than any rookie 1st round QB. I would think it depends on where he goes. I mean if he gets drafted by Tennessee and they have McNair there for 1 more year and win games is VY gonan get scrutinized as much as Lienart with say the Jets or Manning with the Giants?

The one thing folks miss about Young is that when all else fails and he has no idea who is open he can still tuck the ball and get some yardage.

VY had great WRs at UT as a freshman but after that they had no WRs of consequence at all beyond developing 18 year olds.

Any college QB that:
1.) Depends on his elusiveness as opposed to his arm has a tendency to lean in that direction when under duress. Vick being the primary example here--it's alot like a college baketball power forward with a great outside shot, he can reevert to underutilizing his size,players revert to their college tendencies when under duress as a pro.Vick is still learning to be an NFL QB and will never be a success until he has given up the idea of hurting the opponent with his feet.How do I define success how about throwing for more than 15 TDs????(MV last year 15-13 TDs to INTs)

2.) Can't stay healthy? The Kordell Stuart,Daute Culpepper,Michael Vick problem, use your speed and get hurt even when you're as big as Culpepper.

The nagging leg injuries add up. The problem is in college these guys were big enough but in the NFL they didn't get bigger but the LBs and the Safeties did!

3.) Can he throw the 20 yd. out. Ever heard of a QB that "makes all the throws" Well keep your eye on his ability to beat the CBsa anticipation to the "deep out" position on the field.The speed and anticipation of the top NFL QBs is far better at jumping routes and beating the WR to the corner in the NFL over what the star QB faced in college. VY comes up short on experience here with hitting his recievers with timed passes that have to be gunned to the sideline--he seldom threw the long third down pass from the pocket on timing at Texas.

There's more... like slant patterns and leading your receiver down the field and demonstrating patience in the pocket.....but these are all just some of the question marks surrounding VY that remain unanswered for a top 10 draft choice.

[jterrell]

The problem with your argument Al is that Vince Young didnt go 15 TDs and 13 picks last season like Mike Vick did. Any comparison with Vick is merely self indulgence. Vick is a small QB who wouldn't have been drafted at all if he couldn't run. He runs a 4.3 40. VY is a 6'5" guy who weighs 230 plus and runs a 4.5. Young ran at UT because they didnt have Wrs. He passed a ton to his TE because that was his best WR. His next best WR was a converted running back that had been playing the position for a part of the season.

VY went 26 TDs and 10 picks, a 65% completion percentage over 3000 yards passing with the highest QB rating in college football and that doesn't factor in his feet AT ALL.

He PASSED for 270 yards versus Ohio State's tough defense and 267 yards against USC. Those were both top 5 teams. At OSU he was forced to pass and he found a way to win.

You tell me what throw Vince can not make?

Can he make CBs come up and respect his legs?

You are old school and I can appreciate that but football has continued to evolve. VY is the next step in the evolution of the NFL QB.

[J-DOG]

The problem with your argument Al is that Vince Young didnt go 15 TDs and 13 picks last season like Mike Vick did. Any comparison with Vick is merely self indulgence. Vick is a small QB who wouldn't have been drafted at all if he couldn't run. He runs a 4.3 40. VY is a 6'5" guy who weighs 230 plus and runs a 4.5. Young ran at UT because they didnt have Wrs. He passed a ton to his TE because that was his best WR. His next best WR was a converted running back that had been playing the position for a part of the season.

VY went 26 TDs and 10 picks, a 65% completion percentage over 3000 yards passing with the highest QB rating in college football and that doesn't factor in his feet AT ALL.

He PASSED for 270 yards versus Ohio State's tough defense and 267 yards against USC. Those were both top 5 teams. At OSU he was forced to pass and he found a way to win.

You tell me what throw Vince can not make?

Can he make CBs come up and respect his legs?

You are old school and I can appreciate that but football has continued to evolve. VY is the next step in the evolution of the NFL QB.
Exactly!
Vince Young being compared to Vick is why people are down-grading him.
Bottom line is Young is a much more polished passer than Vick ever was in college. Lead the nation in passing efficiency.
He reminds me of Steve Young in his abilities.
Young was not seen as someone with a gun for an arm, but he was accurate and he was elusive. He could kill you with his arm and his legs.
VY is the same way.
One thing people are forgetting is VY's leadership abilities. This guy is competitive and hates to lose.

[Bob Sacamano]

After the ability Whitworth showed at the combine...i'd be happy to land him. Most draft boards show him as a RT, but I disagree. He can play both...I don't think he gave up a sack in his last two season's starting ALL games at LT.

He showed to be a really good athlete with good feet at the combine...if we take him in the second...i'm totally fine with it.

excellent analysis, Andrew also looked good playing LT at East-West Shrine practices, and I too would be perfectly fine with him in the 2nd

[NorthDalal]

The problem with your argument Al is that Vince Young didnt go 15 TDs and 13 picks last season like Mike Vick did. Any comparison with Vick is merely self indulgence. Vick is a small QB who wouldn't have been drafted at all if he couldn't run. He runs a 4.3 40. VY is a 6'5" guy who weighs 230 plus and runs a 4.5. Young ran at UT because they didnt have Wrs. He passed a ton to his TE because that was his best WR. His next best WR was a converted running back that had been playing the position for a part of the season.

VY went 26 TDs and 10 picks, a 65% completion percentage over 3000 yards passing with the highest QB rating in college football and that doesn't factor in his feet AT ALL.

He PASSED for 270 yards versus Ohio State's tough defense and 267 yards against USC. Those were both top 5 teams. At OSU he was forced to pass and he found a way to win.

You tell me what throw Vince can not make?

Can he make CBs come up and respect his legs?

You are old school and I can appreciate that but football has continued to evolve. VY is the next step in the evolution of the NFL QB.

He's got a strong arm and an incredible feel for the pass rush.His big passing gains have often come on balls thrown after the 4 second drop has expired.
Will he have the same advantage against NFL defenses?

VY is a tremendous athlete but has adjustments that go beyond those faced by Eli Manning and even Donovan McNabb--a player I watched extensively in college(as 'Cuse grad).

My point is VY has a pretty strong style transition to make to be sucessful in the NFL--and there's nothing "old school" about it. Quick release, throwing the "out"pattern and accuracy to lead the receiver downfield on the slant are all essential aspects to successfully beating a defense not populated by Big 12 DBs. So I think Vince is a bit of a risk as a top 10 choice--and I've got scores of hot NCAA QBs who didn't adapt to buttress the argument with.
Akili Smith, Woody Danzler, and anyone remember the Andre Ware should have been drafted in the 1st like Troy Aikman arguement? I do.

[dbair1967]

You are old school and I can appreciate that but football has continued to evolve. VY is the next step in the evolution of the NFL QB.

yeah...they said the same thing about David Klingler, Andre Ware, Michael Vick etc etc

as much as you want to homer for Young, you cant erase the fact that he did play in a very simplistic, school yard type spread option offense...he took virtually no snaps from directly under center...he is not experienced in making NFL reads, his passing mechanics and his footwork are poor

he is a major project and is definitely no sure thing...the odds are he will bust

David

[Skip]

Why do many here think VY looks to run before pass? That is the real difference in VY and Vick, Young looks to pass first!

I must be wrong because many here say different, but I don't think he's as much as a "major project" as some would have us believe. Is he ready to step in day 1? I doubt it, most are not, but I don't think it will take him any longer than most and being stamped a "major project" is just poor judgment IMHO.