Would you be ticked if Dallas drafted WR Santonio Holmes at #18?

[AMERICAS_FAN]

I was just checking out a mock draft on about.com and they had Dallas taking WR Santonio Holmes with the #18 pick. Their justification is that at #18 he would be the BPA and that Dallas would draft him instead of reaching for another position of bigger need.

So what if all this came to be and we did draft Holmes? Would you be ticked about that? The positives is that he's fast, a deep threat, and can go over the middle, but at 5'-11" he looks more like a backup at the #2 WR spot behind Terry Glenn. Among his negatives listed were that he does not run crisp routes and he disappers at times - especially in big games. The best positives were that he catches with his hands - not his body (but every NFL WR should do that) and that he can be a solid Kick-Returner.

I don't know about you, but to me it sounds like Santonio Holmes is to WR's what Shante Carver was to DE's. From the sounds of it, his most immediate contributions will be on special teams and he needs much improvement at the WR position. Giving up the #18 pick for that kind of player seems too rich for my blood. What do you guys think - am I being too hard on the kid?

AF

[burntricersx]

yes...I'd be really ticked if we drafted him at 18.

[big dog cowboy]

Highly ticked off. I don't see any way that happens thank goodness.

[CrazyCowboy]

That would be putting it lightly........we need more from #18 the a punt/kickoff returner.

[tyke1doe]

I don't know if I would be ticked off. But I'd rather put more emphasis on solidifying our offensive line or defense.

I suspect Holmes, if not taken by the Broncos, may drop into the second round.

[REDVOLUTION]

BPA - "Best Player available" and "Player needed" are the same category for us.

WE NEED youth at WR.

[BlueWave]

Yes, because I think we could get Stovall (Notre Dame) a little later (2 or 3) and I believe he would make a great backup to Owens (very similar type receiver) and be ready to take over for him in two years.

[txlonghorn14]

hell yea i'd be pissed. they damn well better take an OT.

[big dog cowboy]

hell yea i'd be pissed. they damn well better take an OT.
Brace yourself. I don't think that is going to happen. Sorry.

[BlueStar II]

There are other players I would prefer to have than Holmes with our first pick. I think we'll take either a LB or OL with our first pick, and I'd be shocked if Parcells took a WR with our first pick.

[Hostile]

I like Holmes, but 3rd WR is nowhere near the most important thing for this team right now.

[jazzcat22]

Yes, because I think we could get Stovall (Notre Dame) a little later (2 or 3) and I believe he would make a great backup to Owens (very similar type receiver) and be ready to take over for him in two years.

I would not be po'd, but I agree with you. I would love to have Holmes, but not at #18. I am a big OSU fan, but we have OL & LB & FS needs first. And as you said, we can pick up a WR later in Stovall with more size. Now if we needed another #1 WR, then I would be ok with the pick. Right now he would be KR & PR, which we have already, even though Holmes looks to be better (only from college standpoint, NFL much different) and #3 or 4 or WR depth chart. Not worth a #1 not to play right away.

[DragonCowboy]

I would be really angry if we took Holmes. As someone here said, Stovall is there later in the draft, and he has a very good build for a dominant WR.

As for youth at WR, if we draft Maurice Stovall, and we still have Patrick Crayton as a #3, the WR corp will suddenly get younger. Parcells can whip Stovall into shape, and we'll have two good WRs, Crayton and Stovall, waiting in the wings. IMO, Stovall can end up being a good #1, and Crayton can develop into a #2

[Sasquatch]

Depends on who else is available. The prospect of having a quick receiver in the slot and someone capable of filling in for Glenn in case of injury does not tick me off. We'll all be praising the brillance and foresight of the brain trust if one of our top 2 WRs goes down and Holmes proves a capable replacement.

[BLT]

yes, we need a starter a lot more than a WR who would be behind Glenn,Owens, and Crayton.

[MichaelWinicki]

As long as we come out of this draft with at least a major contributor at OLB and a starter at FS... I don't care what rounds we get who... If it shakes out that we took a WR in the first and still found a starting quality OLB and starting FS in 2 & 3-- then I'm cool with that.

[Big Country]

Don't need Santonio Holmes... and Hos... He'd have to beat out Crayton to even get the #3 WR spot... I don't see it happening even if...

[4lifecowboy]

As long as we come out of this draft with at least a major contributor at OLB and a starter at FS... I don't care what rounds we get who... If it shakes out that we took a WR in the first and still found a starting quality OLB and starting FS in 2 & 3-- then I'm cool with that.

I agree 100%, if the scouting department thinks he is too good to pass at 18 then I wouldn't be upset.

[MichaelWinicki]

I agree 100%, if the scouting department thinks he is too good to pass at 18 then I wouldn't be upset.

Exactly.

I think many are getting too strung out on who we take where.

But if we came out of the draft with:

1. A starting quality OLB.
2. A starting quality FS.
3. A WR that could potentially start within the next couple of seasons.
4. A developmental NT.
5. A developmental offensive lineman (or 2)
6. A fullback.

Heck, I'm going to be dancing in the streets!

[theogt]

1. A starting quality OLB.
2. A starting quality FS.
3. A WR that could potentially start within the next couple of seasons.
4. A developmental NT.
5. A developmental offensive lineman (or 2)
6. A fullback.Now that would be a success.

[AMERICAS_FAN]

Exactly.

I think many are getting too strung out on who we take where.

But if we came out of the draft with:

1. A starting quality OLB.
2. A starting quality FS.
3. A WR that could potentially start within the next couple of seasons.
4. A developmental NT.
5. A developmental offensive lineman (or 2)
6. A fullback.

Heck, I'm going to be dancing in the streets!

Well yes, improvement in most areas of need would be great. I would however rather have a starting quality O-Lineman - a tackle who can play both sides - instead of A starting quality OLB. We already have Al Singleton coming back and he can play OLB (proved it last season). Overall, I think our current LB corps are better than people think, and our current OL corps are worse than people think. JMHO.

AF

[pgreptom]

I just hope in the first 3, we get a FS, LB, and OL/DL. I also hope we spend a 5th on a WR... There's a big talent gap between the 5th and 7th round buggers.

I really hope we trade down. Grab a late first, then we have a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and possibly another 3. With 4 picks within the first three rounds, we can most definatley grab a FS, WR, LB, NT/OT.

[MichaelWinicki]

Well yes, improvement in most areas of need would be great. I would however rather have a starting quality O-Lineman - a tackle who can play both sides - instead of A starting quality OLB. We already have Al Singleton coming back and he can play OLB (proved it last season). Overall, I think our current LB corps are better than people think, and our current OL corps are worse than people think. JMHO.

AF


I think many fans have over-reacted to the tackle situation of last year.

To select an Olineman #1 to sit on the bench this year is downright goofy.

While I agree Al Singlleton is underrated by most fanst I think our OLB depth is dreadful or very, very unproven.

I envision a first or second round OLB coming in and at least splitting snaps with AS for this season.

Unless Fabini and Adams are both hurt you won't see a rookie OT come in and play much at all. Petitti will be thte #1 man off the bench. I'm this close | | to guaranteeing that.

[neosapien23]

For some reason, I would rather have one of the big recievers like Martin Nance or Maurice Stovall in the 3rd round. Both remind me of the big recievers that seem to dominate in the league. Nance could take over for TO when he retires or is let go.

[TruBlueCowboy]

Much more immediate need at linebacker, offensive line and safety. So yes, I'd be ticked!

[AsthmaField]

Exactly.

I think many are getting too strung out on who we take where.

But if we came out of the draft with:

1. A starting quality OLB.
2. A starting quality FS.
3. A WR that could potentially start within the next couple of seasons.
4. A developmental NT.
5. A developmental offensive lineman (or 2)
6. A fullback.

Heck, I'm going to be dancing in the streets!

I agree. That would be great... but our team is much better than it was a year ago. It's going to be much harder for players to make this roster than it was after last years draft. If we get a couple of starters at FS and OLB, and a WR, NT, OL, and FB that make the team (developmental)... were going to be staring at another home run draft.

I hope it happens, but I don't think they'll all make the squad this year.

I think for us to have an OLB that will start this season, we have to draft him in round 1 or 2.... unless we just get lucky later, that is. A starting FS will probably have to be found in rounds 1 - 3... I doubt we find a starter later than that, although it is of course, possible.

Finding backups at NT, OL, and FB are of course possibilities in any round, but not neccessarily likely. Dallas has a pretty deep and talented roster after the influx of free agent talent (Kosier, Fabini, Ayodele, Vanderjagt, Hannam) and with what we ended the season with.

Parcells likes Thomas "Pepper" Johnson and it'll have to be a good player to move him down the depth chart or off the team.

Parcells also likes Peterman, Gurode, and Pettiti. It will be hard to move them off of the roster. Heck, even Tarullo who is on the practic squad, is pretty highly thought of by Parcells. With Allen being released and Tucker going to Tampa though, there are some spots to fill.

The OL that I think will be here are:
Adams
Kosier
A. Johnson
Rivera
Fabini
Columbo
Peterman
Gurode
Pettiti

That might make one spot that we need to fill. That's 9 players... and 9 or 10 is all any team ever carries on the OL. Like I said, Peterman, Pettiti and Gurode are liked by the team much more than what a lot of people on this forum think, and I'm not sure that the Cowboys are looking to replace them.

Also at FB, Parcells likes Polite. I'm not sure he's looking to replace Lousaka and we won't carry more than 1 FB... so we might not do anything there.

So it will be harder to not only find starters... but to find players who will even be able to make the team.

As for drafting Holmes at 18... if Parcells and Ireland think he's so talented that they just can't pass him up, I'd be on board with it. I really don't think that'll be the case, and Parcells doesn't like drafting WR in the first round... but if it happened, I'd be okay with it. Probably because I know that he'd have to be something special to make Parcells draft him there.

[tripletsbestever]

show me Manny Lawson! in some minds holmes is the "best player available" @ #18, but we have to think about what 's "best for us right now" we need someone who will fill one of our needs and contribute immediately. Sure, KR is a need, but not worth it @ 18...( i know many have said the same thing, but i just had to get it out. ) OL, LB, even FS, but @ #18 Holmes is not the answer!

[Dat Dude]

Yes, because I think we could get Stovall (Notre Dame) a little later (2 or 3) and I believe he would make a great backup to Owens (very similar type receiver) and be ready to take over for him in two years.

You obviously dont watch many Notre Dame games... Stovall is far from explosive.. only a tad bit taller than keyshawn , without his route running, blocking or hands.. Drops too many balls and most of his Td's were jump balls in endzone from Quinn. I'd take Samarzdja next year over Stovall.


Stovall isnt a gamebreaker like Eldorado...

[Dat Dude]

Don't need Santonio Holmes... and Hos... He'd have to beat out Crayton to even get the #3 WR spot... I don't see it happening even if...

LOL .. A guy with legit 4.3 speed, explosive and decent hands (not as good as Crayton) would make Crayton looked like the bum that Sean Taylor blasted. Dont know why people are so high on Crayton.. Made one play against Oakland (becasue Charles Woodson can tackle) and hes is the answer. Crayton is keyshawn without the attitude, blocking, route running and has his 4.6 speed. Also , everytime he returns a punt I crap in pants waiting for him to fumble to an arm tackle because he holds ball like a loaf of bread.

[ghst187]

Yes, because I think we could get Stovall (Notre Dame) a little later (2 or 3) and I believe he would make a great backup to Owens (very similar type receiver) and be ready to take over for him in two years.

I'm for Stovall!!!

[4lifecowboy]

For some reason, I would rather have one of the big recievers like Martin Nance or Maurice Stovall in the 3rd round. Both remind me of the big recievers that seem to dominate in the league. Nance could take over for TO when he retires or is let go.

Dominate the league? Have you heard of Steve Smith or Santana Moss talent comes in all shapes and sizes bro.

[theogt]

Dominate the league? Have you heard of Steve Smith or Santana Moss talent comes in all shapes and sizes bro.Those guys hardly refute the notion that taller WRs dominate the league. Something like 13 of the last 15 top 5 receivers (over the past 3 years) have been tallker than 6'. Most of those were taller than 6'2" or 6'3".

[burmafrd]

I frankly do not think any WR this year deserves a first. And only about 3-4 LB's. If none of them fall to us then trade down. Realistically speaking I see BP drafting a guard this year- right now we have a bunch of tackles but only 3 guards since Gurode is supposed to be challenging at center. The young guys will be put under the microscope this camp- Columbo, Pettiti and Peterman will have to show solid improvement over last year to stick. Columbo will have to show that he is recovered. The FS situation- there really is only 1-2 worth a first and they will probably be gone by the time we draft- so once again trade down. I would not be all that upset if we trade all the way out of the first. I would love to get GIlles, Joseph or Spencer early in the 2nd; then maybe Stoval- that size is very intriguing and he knows how to use it. If we could somehow get a good LB, a guard and a FS the first day then a NT like FIfita the second day I would be happy.

[baj1dallas]

Not at all. First off I assume the Cowboys personell department knows the players a lot better than I do. Second, Holmes might turn into the next Steve Smith so even if he didn't start as a rookie, it would probably be worth it. Third, I don't think OL is as big a need anymore with Fabini here.

[speedkilz88]

No way Holmes is the BPA at #18. No way the Cowboys draft him in the first round at a whopping 179 pounds that he weighed in at the Ohio St. workout.

[theogt]

No way Holmes is the BPA at #18. No way the Cowboys draft him in the first round at a whopping 179 pounds that he weighed in at the Ohio St. workout.Yeah, no kidding. He may be among some of the best players available at that point, but he wouldn't be so clearly *THE* BPA that it would warrant a selection over our other needs.

[tripletsbestever]

"You obviously dont watch many Notre Dame games... Stovall is far from explosive.. only a tad bit taller than keyshawn , without his route running, blocking or hands.. Drops too many balls and most of his Td's were jump balls in endzone from Quinn. I'd take Samarzdja next year over Stovall."

I'll take Quinn over samardzija and stovall!:sshhh:

[ThreeSportStar80]

I wouldn't be happy if the Cowboys took any WR in the first round after carefully rethinking. I admitt Chad Jackson from Florida intrigues me a lot, more so than Holmes, because he has the speed and the size to be a #1 at the next level.

[Zippy Speedster]

Would love it. I'll be upset if we go defense again. Either WR to replace Glenn or one of the OTs. Holmes would fit the bill imo.

[theogt]

Would love it. I'll be upset if we go defense again. Either WR to replace Glenn or one of the OTs. Holmes would fit the bill imo.Don't say you weren't warned, cause I'm telling you now that its extremely likely we're going defense with the first pick.

[big dog cowboy]

Would love it. I'll be upset if we go defense again. Either WR to replace Glenn or one of the OTs. Holmes would fit the bill imo.
Agree with theogt here. We need to finish the D. Why draft a WR in the first round in what is considered the weakest class for WR's in years? Unless we trade down and get 4 picks day one, we might not go WR at all that day.

[skinsscalper]

If a WR is the BPA at 18 we will trade down no doubt about it. We have enough money floating around at that position right now. It would be different if this were a strong class for WR if there were a can't miss there, but there just isn't this year. OLB will be our first pick unless something truly unforeseen happens and a blue chipper fell to that position (which isn't going to happen). I would like to see us draft Lawson, but I don't think that the Cowboys brass would see the value of taking him at 18 (many macks don't even have this guy going in the first round), and he won't fall to us in the second. The ideal scenario, for me, would be to trade down to the mid 20s and pick up an extra 3rd. I think at that point we would consider reaching for Lawson and draft a solid O-lineman in the 2nd, taking a FS/corner type with our 1st 3rd rounder. As far as a WR/KR I see us taking the Bouknight kid from Wyoming in the 5th or 6th.

SS

[MichaelWinicki]

If a WR is the BPA at 18 we will trade down no doubt about it. We have enough money floating around at that position right now. It would be different if this were a strong class for WR if there were a can't miss there, but there just isn't this year. OLB will be our first pick unless something truly unforeseen happens and a blue chipper fell to that position (which isn't going to happen). I would like to see us draft Lawson, but I don't think that the Cowboys brass would see the value of taking him at 18 (many macks don't even have this guy going in the first round), and he won't fall to us in the second. The ideal scenario, for me, would be to trade down to the mid 20s and pick up an extra 3rd. I think at that point we would consider reaching for Lawson and draft a solid O-lineman in the 2nd, taking a FS/corner type with our 1st 3rd rounder. As far as a WR/KR I see us taking the Bouknight kid from Wyoming in the 5th or 6th.

SS

That scenario probably isn't too far fetched.

[big dog cowboy]

As far as a WR/KR I see us taking the Bouknight kid from Wyoming in the 5th or 6th.
Unless we put TNew at WR again this year. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[skinsscalper]

Unless we put TNew at WR again this year. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Actually, Tnew at WR was a nice wrinkle in the O and made teams think. I don't think of Tnew as the all arounder that Deion was for a short period, but in a 4 WR set with a quick three step drop with TO, Glenn, and Crayton all on the field with him, Tnew could have a good 6-7 high impact play for the Boys this year in that alignment. His speed is undeniable. Give the guy 5 yards worth of wiggle and he could take it to the house on almost any given play (which is VERY much like Deion).

SS

[big dog cowboy]

Actually, Tnew at WR was a nice wrinkle in the O and made teams think. I don't think of Tnew as the all arounder that Deion was for a short period, but in a 4 WR set with a quick three step drop with TO, Glenn, and Crayton all on the field with him, Tnew could have a good 6-7 high impact play for the Boys this year in that alignment. His speed is undeniable. Give the guy 5 yards worth of wiggle and he could take it to the house on almost any given play (which is VERY much like Deion).

SS
I kept waiting for TNew to line up in the slot and go against the other teams #3 CB or a S. No way they could keep up if he went deep.

[K-DOGG]

I would not be ticked off because I think that he will be able to help the Boys emensely on KR/PR and back up the WR corps.