Considering the trend...

[burmafrd]

All our second rd picks for the last 5 years have pretty much stank it up- JJ is the only one who has shown good stuff and He has had bad luck....
Q
Gurode
Rogers
Peterman
Burnett

Maybe we should trade out of the 2nd and get some 3rd and 4ths.

[Hostile]

All our second rd picks for the last 5 years have pretty much stank it up- JJ is the only one who has shown good stuff and He has had bad luck....
Q
Gurode
Rogers
Peterman
Burnett

Maybe we should trade out of the 2nd and get some 3rd and 4ths.You forgot Dixon and Al Johnson.

Peterman was a 3rd rounder.

I don't believe in curses. Julius Jones was also a 2nd rounder and hs been pretty good. I think this year he can be one of the best. I think Burnett will be fine.

[Rack Bauer]

All our second rd picks for the last 5 years have pretty much stank it up- JJ is the only one who has shown good stuff and He has had bad luck....
Q
Gurode
Rogers
Peterman
Burnett

Maybe we should trade out of the 2nd and get some 3rd and 4ths.


I don't think it's been bad luck. They've just made stupid picks. I didn't like any of our picks except JuJo. Maybe they should just pick someone in the second that I actually want them to pick?

:D

[dbair1967]

You forgot Dixon and Al Johnson.

Peterman was a 3rd rounder.

I don't believe in curses. Julius Jones was also a 2nd rounder and hs been pretty good. I think this year he can be one of the best. I think Burnett will be fine.

I agree...JJ will be special once we get this OL right...he has had some really special games that most RB's cant duplicate...he isnt a one hit wonder either because he's had a number of those games

agree on Burnett as well...its one reason why I am not hung up on drafting an OLB in the first this yr

David

[NYCowboy22]

Burnett showed something before his injury last year.

[Woods]

Several of those misses were due to

1. Reaching for players. For example, QC and Rogers.
2. The other would be drafting a player with an injury history. Again, Rogers comes to mind.

If we can avoid doing these 2 things, I think our odds improve considerably.

[dbair1967]

Several of those misses were due to

1. Reaching for players. For example, QC and Rogers.
2. The other would be drafting a player with an injury history. Again, Rogers comes to mind.

If we can avoid doing these 2 things, I think our odds improve considerably.

Rogers really wasnt a "reach" though...he was regarded by alot of people as a borderline 1st rd pick...he was a good player at USC...the injury thing is legitimate

David

[big dog cowboy]

I don't think we are 2nd round cursed. Most of those players probably should not have been taken in the 2nd round. A couple could still work out for us as well.

[theogt]

Q - All around horrible pick. Huge reach.
Gurode - The guy seems to be turning around and he's still contributing.
Rogers - Bad pick due to injury problem, we should have seen it coming.
Peterman - Who knows if this is a bad pick yet. If he doesn't get the starting LG role this season then of course it is.
Burnett - Jury's out. I would have rather had a few other players at this position, but he's not a bust, YET.

[MinnesotaCowboy]

Don't give up on Gurode or Burnett just yet............I think both will be much better this year! For a change we don't have to reach this year and with Ireland at the helm (his 2nd) I think we will have our 2nd best draft in a row this year!:)

[AsthmaField]

So let's use our second and third to move up into the late first round. We'll have our pick at 18 and then a pick in the late 20's and we'll call it quits for the first day.

We'll have two players... but we'd only have three if we stayed put... and the late first rounder would, in theory, be better than either of the other two that we would have gotten.

[Doomsday]

Dont forget Antonio Bryant.

Everyone said Bradie James was a bust before the start of last season, I dont think its right to catagorize a draft pick until after his 3rd season.

I dont think giving up on drafting in the second round is the answer, the biggest problem is reaching to try and fill needs. Since BP got here things have gotten a bit better with JJ, Burnett and Johnson.

[Woods]

Rogers really wasnt a "reach" though...he was regarded by alot of people as a borderline 1st rd pick...he was a good player at USC...the injury thing is legitimate

David

Good point about Rogers. How about if I throw in Dixon at Safety as a reach then instead of Rogers? :laugh2:

[JPM]

I'd like to give Burnett a couple of years before we start calling him a bust.

[dbair1967]

Good point about Rogers. How about if I throw in Dixon at Safety as a reach then instead of Rogers? :laugh2:

even with Dixon, Rich Gosselin the morning of the draft had him rated in his top 60 and said GM's had become intrigued with him

unfortunately for us our guy (Jones) was one of those

David

[Hostile]

Dont forget Antonio Bryant.I certainly have tried to forget him.

[Crown Royal]

Burnett is still intriguing, but I continue to hold onto the idea that he is a ILB in this scheme, not an Outside. He would be a fine OLB in the 4-3, but he is not a pure blitzer or pass rusher - he is a leader who needs to be calling some things.

Move james to WILB and Burnett to SILB, find me a good, big, run stopping SOLB who can cover a TE and our LBers will be much improved, IMO.

[StanleySpadowski]

People seem to think that missing on second rounders is a problem unique to Dallas.

The 2002 draft has less than a half dozen players currently starting for the team that drafted them.

[Vintage]

I have yet to hear of Rogers being regarded as a borderline 1st rounder.

[Vintage]

People seem to think that missing on second rounders is a problem unique to Dallas.

The 2002 draft has less than a half dozen players currently starting for the team that drafted them.

How many teams have busted on their second rounders since 2000 until now?

[Vintage]

Burnett is still intriguing, but I continue to hold onto the idea that he is a ILB in this scheme, not an Outside. He would be a fine OLB in the 4-3, but he is not a pure blitzer or pass rusher - he is a leader who needs to be calling some things.

Move james to WILB and Burnett to SILB, find me a good, big, run stopping SOLB who can cover a TE and our LBers will be much improved, IMO.

There was talk of Burnett moving inside.

But what do we do with Ayodele?

[Hostile]

How many teams have busted on their second rounders since 2000 until now?Pick one and we'll discuss their 2nd rounder since 2000. I bet each team has at least one miss.

[Vintage]

Pick one and we'll discuss their 2nd rounder since 2000. I bet each team has at least one miss.

There's a difference between missing one, and missing on Dixon, Carter, Bryant, Gurode, Johnson, Rogers....


Burnett is too early to call.

We've missed on our second rounders since 2000.

That's a difference between missing ONE since 2000 and missing on ALL.

You know that.

[Hostile]

There's a difference between missing one, and missing on Dixon, Carter, Bryant, Gurode, Johnson, Rogers....


Burnett is too early to call.

We've missed on our second rounders since 2000.

That's a difference between missing ONE since 2000 and missing on ALL.

You know that.We haven't missed on all though.

2001...Campo as HC and Jerry in charge of Drafts.

Quincy Cater...miss.
Tony Dixon...miss.



2002...Campo as HC and Jerry in charge of Drafts.

Andre Gurode...Parcells and Jerry offered him a new contract.



2003...Parcells as HC and buying the groceries.

Al Johnson...3 year starter.



2004...Parcells as HC and buying the groceries.

Julius Jones...2 year starter and generally considered a weapon.
Jacob Rogers...miss.


3 hits and 3 misses.

So, all I'm looking for is proof from you that all of the other teams hit on every 2nd rounder or at least blow this 50% away.

[Vintage]

For ****s and giggle, let's look at our NFC East counterparts.

Redskins:
2000- No pick
2001- Fred Smoot- No longer with team, solid CB
2003- Ladell Betts- Solid backup RB


Eagles:
2000- Todd Pinkston- Solid WR who is still with the team
2000- Bobbie Williams- Not on roster
2001- Quinton Caver- Bad pick
2003- Michael Lewis- Pro Bowl caliber
2003- Sheldon Brown- Pro Bowl caliber, best CB on roster
2005- Reggie Brown- Starter for next year....solid pick
2005- Matt McCoy- Too early to tell.

Giants-
2000- Cornellius Griffin- Let him get away to Washington, a good DT.
2003- Tim Carter- Good Special Teams Player
2004- Chris Snee- starter
2005- Corey Webster- solid, too early to tell what he ends up as



Cowboys
2000- Dwayne Goodrich- Never was anything
2001- Quincy Carter- Nothing needs to be said here.
2002- Tony Dixon- Bleh.....
2003- Andre Gurode- Backup at best
2003- Antonio Bryant- Traded
2004- Julius Jones- Starter
2004- Jacob Rogers- Bust
2005- Kevin Burnett- too early to tell

[StanleySpadowski]

There's a difference between missing one, and missing on Dixon, Carter, Bryant, Gurode, Johnson, Rogers....


Burnett is too early to call.

We've missed on our second rounders since 2000.

That's a difference between missing ONE since 2000 and missing on ALL.

You know that.

Either Johnson or Gurode will start for Dallas this year so it's reaching to say that they've "missed" on both.

Look at teams in the NFCE. Washington currrently has two players on their roster that they've picked in the second round (Betts and Jacobs) and both are buried on their depth chart.

Philly hit with Lewis and Brown in '02 but that's about it unless you consider the likes of Todd Pinkston a home run.

The Giants have done a decent job in the second round getting Usi, Snee amongst others but have also missed badly.

[Vintage]

Of our NFC East counterparts, the Eagles did the best IMO.

Lewis and Brown are Pro Bowlers.

Pinkston and Brown are starters at WR.

McCoy is too early to tell.

Redskins didnt have much picks....But Smoot was good (sans against us) for them. Ladell Betts is a good backup for them. Though, with a second rounder, I think a backup isn't what you are striving for.

Giants grabbed Griffin, who was a starter, but they didn't want to pay him. Carter is an excellent ST player with the ability to stetch defenses. Webster could potentially be a starter; Snee is.

For us: Gurode is a backup. Burnett was injured (though, to early to tell). Johnson has been mediocre at best. We traded Bryant for a WR we let go. Dixon, Carter were either cut or not brought back (on our choice). Rogers had injury problems.

[burmafrd]

A second rd pick is a bust if he is not either a starter or sharing a position. Special teams do not count.

[StanleySpadowski]

For ****s and giggle, let's look at our NFC East counterparts.

Redskins:
2000- No pick
2001- Fred Smoot- No longer with team, solid CB
2003- Ladell Betts- Solid backup RB


Eagles:
2000- Todd Pinkston- Solid WR who is still with the team
2000- Bobbie Williams- Not on roster
2001- Quinton Caver- Bad pick
2003- Michael Lewis- Pro Bowl caliber
2003- Sheldon Brown- Pro Bowl caliber, best CB on roster
2005- Reggie Brown- Starter for next year....solid pick
2005- Matt McCoy- Too early to tell.

Giants-
2000- Cornellius Griffin- Let him get away to Washington, a good DT.
2003- Tim Carter- Good Special Teams Player
2004- Chris Snee- starter
2005- Corey Webster- solid, too early to tell what he ends up as



Cowboys
2000- Dwayne Goodrich- Never was anything
2001- Quincy Carter- Nothing needs to be said here.
2002- Tony Dixon- Bleh.....
2003- Andre Gurode- Backup at best
2003- Antonio Bryant- Traded
2004- Julius Jones- Starter
2004- Jacob Rogers- Bust
2005- Kevin Burnett- too early to tell

I don't know where you got this list but it's as inaccurate as heck.


And the comments almost juvenile. Tim Carter not a major disappointment??

[Vintage]

Either Johnson or Gurode will start for Dallas this year so it's reaching to say that they've "missed" on both.

Look at teams in the NFCE. Washington currrently has two players on their roster that they've picked in the second round (Betts and Jacobs) and both are buried on their depth chart.

Philly hit with Lewis and Brown in '02 but that's about it unless you consider the likes of Todd Pinkston a home run.

The Giants have done a decent job in the second round getting Usi, Snee amongst others but have also missed badly.

Difference being, Johnson and Gurode are neither quality starters IMO. Betts is a backup bec. they have Portis....

Pinkston for the Eagles is solid, as is Reggie Brown. Neither are great yet (I think Reggie has the potential to at least be a #2....Pinkston is better suited for a #2, # 3....Brown and Lewis are Pro Bowlers)

[Vintage]

I don't know where you got this list but it's as inaccurate as heck.


And the comments almost juvenile. Tim Carter not a major disappointment??

I don't think Carter is a great WR, mind you. I never said that. But he is good on ST. And he does have the ability to stretch defenses with his speed. I think he is a better pickup than Gurode, who does nothing but keep making mental mistakes as a starter.

[Vintage]

I don't know where you got this list but it's as inaccurate as heck.


And the comments almost juvenile. Tim Carter not a major disappointment??

Inaccurate? How. I took it from nfl.com. I don't think my vision is that blurry yet.

And of course my comments are juvenile now. If you want my comments to be more in depth, you are going to have to wait for tommorrow/ or whenever I sober up.

[MichaelWinicki]

Virtually all of our 2nd rounders with the exception of Dixon and Carter, were legit 2nd rounders. None of them were considered "reaches".

I think a certain amount of bad luck entered into it.

[StanleySpadowski]

Inaccurate? How. I took it from nfl.com. I don't think my vision is that blurry yet.

And of course my comments are juvenile now. If you want my comments to be more in depth, you are going to have to wait for tommorrow/ or whenever I sober up.


You need to sober up then. You have the year wrong on some and completely omitted several.

[Vintage]

You need to sober up then. You have the year wrong on some and completely omitted several.

Admittedly, typing drunk is hard. You wouldn't believe how long it takes....

That being said, I am pretty sure of the years being correct. NFL.com is where I got them from...

Not saying I didn't have typos....but I am pretty sure of them.

[StanleySpadowski]

Admittedly, typing drunk is hard. You wouldn't believe how long it takes....

That being said, I am pretty sure of the years being correct. NFL.com is where I got them from...

Not saying I didn't have typos....but I am pretty sure of them.

Sheldon and Brown came from the '02 draft not '03. You omitted Taylor Jacobs for the skins, LJ Smith for the Eagles and Usi U for the Giants.

[Vintage]

Sheldon and Brown came from the '02 draft not '03. You omitted Taylor Jacobs for the skins, LJ Smith for the Eagles and Usi U for the Giants.


LOL, I see what happened....

I forgot the 2003 draft entirely.

I must have typed 2002 twice.....not too surprising....

Usi turned out well for the Giants.....Taylor, not so well...LJ Smith was solid.


Time to get some more beer.

[Crown Royal]

There was talk of Burnett moving inside.

But what do we do with Ayodele?

I'd rather have Burnett on the field than Ayodele. I'm not a huge fan of our FA LBer pickups.

[dbair1967]

I have yet to hear of Rogers being regarded as a borderline 1st rounder.

hmm, me thinks you need to go back and actually read the draft guides and scouting reports then...nobody thought he was going top-10 or 15 or anything, but almost all of them said late 1st/early 2nd rd

David

[Vintage]

I'd rather have Burnett on the field than Ayodele. I'm not a huge fan of our FA LBer pickups.

Ayodele has proven more than Burnett, by far.

[Vintage]

hmm, me thinks you need to go back and actually read the draft guides and scouting reports then...nobody thought he was going top-10 or 15 or anything, but almost all of them said late 1st/early 2nd rd

David

Not really interested in reading much right now. Takes away from valuable drunken posting time.

Maybe tomorrow.

But from what I remember, Rogers wasn't classified as a borderline pick at all.

[Rack Bauer]

hmm, me thinks you need to go back and actually read the draft guides and scouting reports then...nobody thought he was going top-10 or 15 or anything, but almost all of them said late 1st/early 2nd rd

David


You referring to Jacob Rogers? Cuz by the time draft day was close that year, no one had him as a 1st rounder. Most had him as a 3rd or second day pick. I hated the pick and wouldn't of touched him till the 4th at the soonest.

[dbair1967]

You referring to Jacob Rogers? Cuz by the time draft day was close that year, no one had him as a 1st rounder. Most had him as a 3rd or second day pick. I hated the pick and wouldn't of touched him till the 4th at the soonest.

they did? and how did you find that out Rack? did you poll all the league personnel people?

because every draft guide and internet draft site I had access to all had this guy rated about the same...late 1st/early 2nd rd

David

[Rack Bauer]

they did? and how did you find that out Rack? did you poll all the league personnel people?

because every draft guide and internet draft site I had access to all had this guy rated about the same...late 1st/early 2nd rd

David


Keep in mind I said "by the time the draft was close". I remember him being rated as a first EARLY in the year, but he wasn't by the time the draft came around. Early rankings are useless IMO.


If I could see he was gonna be garbage then I'm sure a few NFL personell saw it too.

[dbair1967]

Keep in mind I said "by the time the draft was close". I remember him being rated as a first EARLY in the year, but he wasn't by the time the draft came around. Early rankings are useless IMO.


If I could see he was gonna be garbage then I'm sure a few NFL personell saw it too.

really dont know how you came to that conclusion Rack, he was a pretty good player at USC and probably would have been a very good pro had it not been for injuries

David

[Rack Bauer]

really dont know how you came to that conclusion Rack, he was a pretty good player at USC and probably would have been a very good pro had it not been for injuries

David


I don't think he was pretty good at USC. I think he was very solid, but nothing special. I figured him as a 2nd round pick due to talent. The injuries dropped him to a 4th.


In the end, looks like I was right on that one. And don't you forget it cuz it doesn't happen often. :D

[CowboysFaninDC]

All our second rd picks for the last 5 years have pretty much stank it up- JJ is the only one who has shown good stuff and He has had bad luck....
Q
Gurode
Rogers
Peterman
Burnett

Maybe we should trade out of the 2nd and get some 3rd and 4ths.

not that it matters...,, peterman was a 3rd round pick