Wimbley/Lawson...as good as..Ware/Merriman??

[cowboyuptx]

I was just wondering what the general consensus on this is.

In 2005 the top 2 "hybrid" types were Ware and Merriman.

In 2006 Kam Wimbley and Manny Lawson are the 2 "tweeners" to seperate themselves from the pack.

Do y'all feel the combination (talent wise) of Lawson/Wimbley, is equal to that of Merriman and Ware?

I'm guessing these 2 players will be very good, but not of the special variety like Merriman and Ware.

[CrazyCowboy]

As of today? NO

[RealCowboyfan]

I think Lawson could go further than Ware and Merriman because of his physical attributes.

He's faster than both player. He played DE and OLB just like they did.
Lawson just as strong as if not stronger than Merriman and Ware.

[Funxva]

I think Lawson could go further than Ware and Merriman because of his physical attributes.

He's faster than both player. He played DE and OLB just like they did.
Lawson just as strong as if not stronger than Merriman and Ware.

Sooo... who do you want the boys to pick at 18? Wimbley?

:starspin

[RealCowboyfan]

Sooo... who do you want the boys to pick at 18? Wimbley?

:starspin

MANNY LAWSON....:starspin

[Funxva]

MANNY LAWSON....:starspin

:) I know. Just poking some fun at ya.

[tyke1doe]

Our opinions really don't matter. I guess this will be resolved at the end of the NFL season.

[Pokes28]

In a word.... No. Neither of these two are of the caliber coming out that Ware and Merriman were last year.

Lawson has one move. That is run quickly around the guy trying to block him. He has never shown that he can bull rush.

Last year, we saw many times where Ware simply overpowered team's LT driving them to the QB. He can do that as well as speed rush, etc. Merriman has a bit more power than Ware.

Personally, I think of the two Wimbley has the best chance of success as an all around player. I think Lawson will end up being a situational pass rusher and not much else. But that is my opinion and I've been wrong many times before in evaluating players.

David Harrell - Pokes
dwh

[ThreeSportStar80]

To say Lawson is much faster than Demarcus Ware is a joke within itself. Ware had the quickest snap read in recent memory and the combination of speed and power is why Big Bill and Jerrah took him so high.

[AbeBeta]

I don't see the comparison -- Ware and Merriman are top 15 picks in any draft.

Lawson/Wimbley? Good first rounders but could easily be high 2nd rounders in a stronger draft

[conner01]

not even close.no one knows the future but today they are not even close

[Duane]

I don't see the comparison -- Ware and Merriman are top 15 picks in any draft.

Lawson/Wimbley? Good first rounders but could easily be high 2nd rounders in a stronger draft
:hammer:

[theogt]

The popular answer will of course be "no". However, the similarities are striking.

[Pokes28]

What similarities? That there are two "tweener" types coming out in consecutive drafts?

go to the tape and compare Ware to Lawson, you will see there is no comparison.

David Harrell - Pokes
dwh

[theogt]

What similarities? That there are two "tweener" types coming out in consecutive drafts?

go to the tape and compare Ware to Lawson, you will see there is no comparison.

David Harrell - Pokes
dwhI disagree.

[Jaxonsdaddd]

I would say Wimbley in on par with Ware and Merriman but not lawson..

Lawson reminds me of ex gator Huey Richardson...

[Portland Fanatic]

I say NO...the reason Wimbley and Lawson are so hyped this year is because of Merriman and Ware. I think both will be good, but not as good as Merriman or Ware.

[Bob Sacamano]

I say NO...the reason Wimbley and Lawson are so hyped this year is because of Merriman and Ware. I think both will be good, but not as good as Merriman or Ware.

which is a good thing that we already have Ware ;)

[JIGGYFLY]

I don't see the comparison -- Ware and Merriman are top 15 picks in any draft.

Lawson/Wimbley? Good first rounders but could easily be high 2nd rounders in a stronger draft

I don't understand your point this is a very strong draft, stronger than last years, and Lawson and Wimbley could be gone in the top 15.

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't understand your point this is a very strong draft, stronger than last years, and Lawson and Wimbley could be gone in the top 15.

I'd say for the middle of the 1st, and the middle of the draft, both this year's and last year's, compare very favorably in terms of depth and value

[theogt]

I don't understand your point this is a very strong draft, stronger than last years, and Lawson and Wimbley could be gone in the top 15.I agree that this year's draft is stronger than last and that both Wimbley and Lawson could be gone by 16. I think they'll both be gone by at least 18.

[speedkilz88]

I would say Wimbley in on par with Ware and Merriman but not lawson..

Lawson reminds me of ex gator Huey Richardson...I love how some have to resort to bust picked over ten years ago. Mamula and now Richardson. Richardson didn't have the speed nor quickness anyways. There is a long list of tweeners since those two that have panned out and I trusts our head coach and his scouts to know which ones can play.

[rexrobinson]

It is sad to see that the common misconception of Manny Lawson is that he is not strong.

First it was he could not cover

Second it was he cannot stop the run

Third it was he gets caught up in blocks too easy

Fourth was he only has one move

Fifth was his legs are too skinny

and now this

[Bob Sacamano]

I think it's due to the fact that reports say he struggles shedding blocks in the running game, same knock Ware had on him and hence why he's considered a "tweener"

[Chocolate Lab]

Ware is going to be a complete stud, one of the best in the game. Merriman may also. The guys in this draft are more the solid starter type IMO.

Except for Lawson... He definitely has the physical attributes to be great and seems like a very solid person. But IMO he looks like a player who's going to have a hard time maintaining weight.

[rexrobinson]

Ware is going to be a complete stud, one of the best in the game. Merriman may also. The guys in this draft are more the solid starter type IMO.

Except for Lawson... He definitely has the physical attributes to be great and seems like a very solid person. But IMO he looks like a player who's going to have a hard time maintaining weight.

I have to agree with this.

I wish I still had a hard time gaining weight LOL

[theogt]

Ware is going to be a complete stud, one of the best in the game. Merriman may also. The guys in this draft are more the solid starter type IMO.

Except for Lawson... He definitely has the physical attributes to be great and seems like a very solid person. But IMO he looks like a player who's going to have a hard time maintaining weight.Well if Gosselin is right and Lawson is up to 251 then I wouldn't say he has a probably gaining weight.

I agree with Rex, though, I sure wish I had the problem of not being able to gain weight.

[Pokes28]

If he's up to 251, then that means he's gained 13 pounds in less than a month. That isn't good either.


Everybody has their own opinion. Every first round pick is being disected and reviewed beyond belief. Looking for something that could cause problems at the NFL level.

Lawson has the physical tools to be great. The thing is that his play on the field does not show that he uses those all of those tools but speed. Does this mean that he won't be able to learn to use them? No, he very well could. Does this mean that he is going to be a bust? No, he could be an all-pro. But when evaluating players, the measurables are only a small part of the equation. People love that he was voted the defensive MVP on a team that has at least two other first day picks on the team. People love that he had a decent sack total. People REALLY love the combine numbers. But reality is that very few fans can break down tape to a point that they can see what the technical strengths and weaknesses of a player are. What we can do is look at recordings and determine what basic moves were used. Speed, spin, swim, bull, etc. If a player consistently uses the same move you have to ask why and how long will it take for that player to get more than one move that he can use to create havok. This is no different than evaluating an OL. Some are great at pass blocking, some are great at run blocking the problem comes in when trying to determine how long it will take one to complete their game.

David Harrell - Pokes
dwh

[Chocolate Lab]

Well if Gosselin is right and Lawson is up to 251 then I wouldn't say he has a probably gaining weight.

I agree with Rex, though, I sure wish I had the problem of not being able to gain weight.
Another report said he was at 233 at a couple of recent interviews... So who knows which it is...

[speedkilz88]

Rick Gosselin talks to GMs, scouts, and coaches and believes that Lawson is the best rusher and is even underrated. Kiper and Kirwan also believe he is underrated.

[Rack Bauer]

I was just wondering what the general consensus on this is.

In 2005 the top 2 "hybrid" types were Ware and Merriman.

In 2006 Kam Wimbley and Manny Lawson are the 2 "tweeners" to seperate themselves from the pack.

Do y'all feel the combination (talent wise) of Lawson/Wimbley, is equal to that of Merriman and Ware?

I'm guessing these 2 players will be very good, but not of the special variety like Merriman and Ware.


I mentioned this before, but I'll post it again...


I see Lawson and Wimbley both as a Ware type of OLB.

I see Carpenter as a Merriman type of OLB.


So if anything it would be Lawson/Wimbley vs Carpenter.


Carpenter's style is closer to that of Merriman then Lawson or Wimbley.

[Hostile]

I mentioned this before, but I'll post it again...


I see Lawson and Wimbley both as a Ware type of OLB.

I see Carpenter as a Merriman type of OLB.


So if anything it would be Lawson/Wimbley vs Carpenter.


Carpenter's style is closer to that of Merriman then Lawson or Wimbley.Given their build and the way they hit the ball carrier I'd say this is a pretty good analysis. Let me quantify it with this caveat though. Merriman looks for the big hits, Carpenter is more fundamentally sound in coverage and as a tackler. IMO anyway.

[BigDFan5]

Who cares give me Carpenter or Lawson and call me happy :)

[Rack Bauer]

Given their build and the way they hit the ball carrier I'd say this is a pretty good analysis. Let me quantify it with this caveat though. Merriman looks for the big hits, Carpenter is more fundamentally sound in coverage and as a tackler. IMO anyway.


I agree.

[bayarealightning]

Given their build and the way they hit the ball carrier I'd say this is a pretty good analysis. Let me quantify it with this caveat though. Merriman looks for the big hits, Carpenter is more fundamentally sound in coverage and as a tackler. IMO anyway.
I will say this, every hit of Merriman's is a big hit. He doesn't look for it, but they come by his tackling style (in other words, he doesn't wind up to get a little extra omph while tackling, but propells his body from a sound position). Also, he doesn't miss very many tackles. The Cowboys do not need someone like Ware, but a guy who can take on the TEs and OT in the running game and also drop into coverage. Unless, the 'Boys want to move Ware to the left side of the defense (the strongside). Ware could eventually do it, but he is perfect for where he is. Any OLB that you guys look at, should definately be strong at the point of attack and should also be able to rush the QB.

[diehard2294]

I read in USA today that Wimbley said "he's stronger and more athletic then Ware!

[Hostile]

I will say this, every hit of Merriman's is a big hit. He doesn't look for it, but they come by his tackling style (in other words, he doesn't wind up to get a little extra omph while tackling, but propells his body from a sound position). Also, he doesn't miss very many tackles. The Cowboys do not need someone like Ware, but a guy who can take on the TEs and OT in the running game and also drop into coverage. Unless, the 'Boys want to move Ware to the left side of the defense (the strongside). Ware could eventually do it, but he is perfect for where he is. Any OLB that you guys look at, should definately be strong at the point of attack and should also be able to rush the QB.I didn't say he "misses tackles." I said his tackling is not as "fundamentally sound" as Carpenter's is. There is a difference.

Let me explain it this way. Merriman blows guys up. It's violent and fun as hell to watch. Carpenter wraps up and takes the ball carrier down. Both get the job done. One is about explosion, the other about technique.

That doesn't means Merriman isn't technically sound, or that Carpenter isn't explosive. However, their strengths in these 2 areas are opposite.

Make sense?

[Bob Sacamano]

Charger dude, do you just wait for us to talk about the Chargers or something? lol, you only have 8 posts and it seems all of them have been in response whenever your Chargers are brought up, just wondering

[bayarealightning]

Todd McShay of ESPN also looks at Lawson as a speed rusher in the 3-4:


Todd McShay: That means, with the 22nd pick the 49ers will address the defensive side of the ball. It could be any of the top DB's (Hill, Cromartie, Joseph, Whitner, etc.) or it could be NC State DE/OLB Manny Lawson, who is skyrocketting up the draft board and would be a perfect fit as a rush linebacker in the 3-4.


Ware is the Cowboys speed rusher. Going into 2005, Steve Foley was our speed rusher (with Shaun Phillips his back-up; both are currently having a little trouble with the law) and Merriman was the perfect fit for us as the SOLB. You guys are looking to fill a bookend position and not a mirror position. I do think that Ware could field the SOLB position as well as anyone as he matures physically and as he gains the technique to disengage with the OTs.

[bayarealightning]

Charger dude, do you just wait for us to talk about the Chargers or something? lol, you only have 8 posts and it seems all of them have been in response whenever your Chargers are brought up, just wondering
I try to add something to the discussion. I am not as versed in the Cowboys as you guys are, so if there is a general football discussion, or a discussion on a Charger player, I may add my own .02 cents in. I live by the credo of "It is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak and prove it":)

[speedkilz88]

SD did platoon Merriman in his first year. Dallas could do that with Al Singleton who played well until injured, his one weakness is no pass rush ability. He isn't even that big of LB himself. But I do agree that Ware could make the move to SOLB, at least until Manny/Wimbley were ready for that side. The coaches have already asked Ware to bulk up to 260.

[Hostile]

I try to add something to the discussion. I am not as versed in the Cowboys as you guys are, so if there is a general football discussion, or a discussion on a Charger player, I may add my own .02 cents in. I live by the credo of "It is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak and prove it":)IMO you've been a grade A poster from day 1 here before the opening game last year, and I look forward to your posts.

[cowboyuptx]

I will say this, every hit of Merriman's is a big hit. He doesn't look for it, but they come by his tackling style (in other words, he doesn't wind up to get a little extra omph while tackling, but propells his body from a sound position). Also, he doesn't miss very many tackles. The Cowboys do not need someone like Ware, but a guy who can take on the TEs and OT in the running game and also drop into coverage. Unless, the 'Boys want to move Ware to the left side of the defense (the strongside). Ware could eventually do it, but he is perfect for where he is. Any OLB that you guys look at, should definately be strong at the point of attack and should also be able to rush the QB.

Thanks for chiming in Bayarealightning. It's good to have an unbiased oppion around here sometimes. Stop by anytime....:)