The Skins, Giants, And Eagles Got

[STSINAZ]

THE SKINS, GIANTS, AND EAGLES GOT Subscribe

BETTER BUT ARE THEY READY FOR SMASH MOUTH FOOTBALL?

Upon looking at their rosters I think not.

The Skins basically do not have a good front four. They have some good linebackers but remember this. Arrington is so focused on the rush he overruns plays. Therefore, due to the way we are building our team by bringing in and drafting runblockers at every position, I dont think they will be able to handle us.

The Eagles had a terrible run defense last year and they did nothing to improve that. They added Kearse who you can run at and they lost Emmons (who by the way has some serious medical issues and was their best linebacker against the run). They also lost Vincent who is good against the run too.

The Giants picked up Emmons but now he may not play this year. I also heard rumors that he may never play again. They also lost their leading tackler, and the conference leading tackler for that matter (Michael Barrow). Don't forget what happened to last years draft pick Joseph. He is hurt! They did pick up Bromell, Chase, and Hand but none of them scares me.

SO EVERYONE HAS BEEN SAYING WHAT HAVE THE COWBOYS DONE IN RELATION TO WHAT ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE NFC EAST HAVE REGARDING UPGRADES BUT I SAY:

WHAT HAVE THE OTHER THREE TEAMS IN THE NFC EAST DONE TO STOP THE SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL THAT WE ARE ABOUT TO INCORPORATE THIS NEXT SEASON?

NOTHING!

SPENDING $$ DOES NOT ALWAYS TRANSLATE INTO WINS IF YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAN AS BP DOES!

[STSINAZ]

It seems to some that the world has ended....what do you guys think of my 1st post?

[Tio]

It seems to some that the world has ended....what do you guys think of my 1st post?
I remember you from that star telegram forum...

I agree with your assesment. I think Jones could run over any of these teams and I am not intending to compliment him.

[GeneralPatton]

good post. I agree that we're going oldschool on everyone. And it doesn't seem like anyone else is ready for it.

But I think we've improved significantly. We have a upgrade at DE. We should have a significantly better OL. We've signed a posession WR. And we have a potential franchise QB on our roster. Now add a substantial upgrade at RB. And what have we done?

We've quietly created a contender.

The General

[Witten]

I just said the same thing in another thread I called NFC East. They had better be ready for some down in the trenches run game.

[tkiehl]

I agree with your post. Looks like we are going to make QC better by running the ball. BP is obviously happy with the personnel on the DL. Must see a lot of improvement since last year.

[Woods]

good post. I agree that we're going oldschool on everyone. And it doesn't seem like anyone else is ready for it.

But I think we've improved significantly. We have a upgrade at DE. We should have a significantly better OL. We've signed a posession WR. And we have a potential franchise QB on our roster. Now add a substantial upgrade at RB. And what have we done?

We've quietly created a contender.

The General

And I can't wait for the draft next year! :D

[keithshepherd]

things thta make you go hmmmm

[Eagles-UK]

It seems to some that the world has ended....what do you guys think of my 1st post?

ok but a bit one eyed

when you say the eagles have done nothing to reinforce theiir run defense you're right they haven't because as long as the line stay health (6 guys on the IR from the D line alone last year)

emmons was our best tackler from the lbs but dhani jonjes' strength is making a good tackle.

Dawkins is an excellent run stopper too and who is going to block for JJ anyway?.

[Juke99]

Smash mouth football?

Let's try to look at this objectively.

You're relying on a rookie RB...an OLine with a good LT, a LG who the team was trying to let walk...a Center, who for all intents and purposes is a rookie...a question mark at RG...and a question mark at RT.

Too many variables.

If everything fell into place, Jones would be solid...Allen would have a resurgence or Peterman would prove to be a quality rookie starter...Johnson would perform at the expected level...at RG, Gurode would have a resurgence....and at RT Rogers, another Rookie would play as hoped for....that's two or three rookies, not counting Johnson...

That's a bit too much to expect.

[Carlito]

THE SKINS, GIANTS, AND EAGLES GOT Subscribe

BETTER BUT ARE THEY READY FOR SMASH MOUTH FOOTBALL?

Upon looking at their rosters I think not.

The Skins basically do not have a good front four. They have some good linebackers but remember this. Arrington is so focused on the rush he overruns plays. Therefore, due to the way we are building our team by bringing in and drafting runblockers at every position, I dont think they will be able to handle us.

The Eagles had a terrible run defense last year and they did nothing to improve that. They added Kearse who you can run at and they lost Emmons (who by the way has some serious medical issues and was their best linebacker against the run). They also lost Vincent who is good against the run too.

The Giants picked up Emmons but now he may not play this year. I also heard rumors that he may never play again. They also lost their leading tackler, and the conference leading tackler for that matter (Michael Barrow). Don't forget what happened to last years draft pick Joseph. He is hurt! They did pick up Bromell, Chase, and Hand but none of them scares me.

SO EVERYONE HAS BEEN SAYING WHAT HAVE THE COWBOYS DONE IN RELATION TO WHAT ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE NFC EAST HAVE REGARDING UPGRADES BUT I SAY:

WHAT HAVE THE OTHER THREE TEAMS IN THE NFC EAST DONE TO STOP THE SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL THAT WE ARE ABOUT TO INCORPORATE THIS NEXT SEASON?

NOTHING!

SPENDING $$ DOES NOT ALWAYS TRANSLATE INTO WINS IF YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAN AS BP DOES!

Very nice post!!! What a lot of people are failing to consider is that we now have a ton of cap room and alot of draft picks next year. That is a very good combonation. I almost forgot we are also a very young and still developing team.

So to recap:

1. Ton of cap room
2. Alot of draft picks (2 #1's next year)
3. Very Young and still developing team

Sounds like we Are just getting started here. When the Redskins are in cap hell we will be the next New England

[Huge]

If we're building our team just to beat our divisional opponents, then we're making a mistake. Those games only represent 37.5% (6 out of 16) of our schedule.

I'd rather concern myself with building the best possible team.

[Witten]

You are right their are some good Run Defenses out there, just not in our division. I would say building a team to win our division is a good start. The winner of every division gets a playoff spot.

[STSINAZ]

You bring up some good points but would you rather have had us relying on someone with a degenerative knee? not me. And think about this. We are going to be able to trade both our number 1's to move up and get a real superstar next year if needed...that's not to say that it's in the bag but there is a better chance now that we have another pick. It's like BP said, alot of first round backs don't ever work out so why not get two extra picks for him, one of them being a first!

Trust me on this, we have 14 o-linemen, if any of them want to keep their job they will play harder. That in itself will answer many questions!

The guy who brought up the Eagles points, I agree with you. They had alot of injuries but think about this. Wayne isnt much of a player anymore and Simoneau as far as I am concerned is too small if you run right at him. Their LB's have problems stopping the run. Kearse is going to be a liablity at RE too. Who else scares you? Walker maybe...Simon....not the greatest against the run.....but Dawkins will help them if he stays healthy....there's not guarantee that will happen...he's on the other side of 30.

[LaTunaNostra]

There are four head coaches in the division that can lay claim to "smashmouth" ball, not just Bill.

Tom Coughlin brought in, as you mentioned, Chase, Hand, and Bromell. And also Fred Robbins. Add those names to Strahan, Keith Washington, Osi Umenyiora and William Joseph, and I think you got smashmouth.
Coughlin is a Tuna protege right down the line, regardless of scheme

Because of Gibbs' offensive innovations, he was sometimes accused of running a "finesse" O. But it was his line defined his philosophy on football. His line and John Riggins.

Greg Williams favors aggressive defensive ball with the interior line coming right smack at you. He will find a force in the middle, somehow. Smashmouth.

Reid's team is flat out tough, and just got tougher with TO and Kearse, and now adding Andrews and Ware.

If the 'signature' player of the Cowboys is Roy, that of the Jints is still Strahan, andnow, Coughlin. McNabb epitomizes the big tough guy as QB, and Reid is dedicated to getting that line in front of him meaner. Gibb's record speaks for itself.

We need to get rougher just to tread water. Which is why guys like Peterman and Rogers were drafted. Jones doesn't look like a wuss either.

[tyke1doe]

If we're building our team just to beat our divisional opponents, then we're making a mistake. Those games only represent 37.5% (6 out of 16) of our schedule.

I'd rather concern myself with building the best possible team.


You win the smashmouth game, you can beat anybody. How soon we forget the Cowboys of the 90s. We could go smashmouth and beat ya with Emmitt, or we could go airborn and beat ya. If you wear down a team's defense, then you put the pressure on a team's offense. And there are more chances to make mistakes when you have to constantly score through the air.

I like our approach. Build a team on the lines (OL this year, DL next year) and then work your way out. Get a franchise QB (Henson, hopefully), a running back with modest talent and a big-time receiver (Bryant, if he shakes his sophomore slump). Get a great corner (Newman) and a dominating defensive player (Roy Williams.)

I like the way Bill is shaping this team, not rushing into anything for a one-year fix. But he's building a champion the way one is suppose to be built.

And even if he fails, which is always a possibility although he has a proven track record, he'll fail HIS way not our way. Many of you wanted a great coach who could motivate the troops and who could evaluate talent. Now, you're ready to sink into a state of depression because he didn't draft who you wanted him to.

Those who clearly grasp the glorious vision of the future aren't moved by the negativity of the present.

[AJM1613]

First of all the Eagle's run defense was the best in the league until they lost Hollis Thomas and Paul Grasmanis. Dawin Walker and Corey Simon are both pass rushing DTs. Paul Grasmanis and Hollis Thomas are both run stoping DTs. If you loose both of your run stoping DTs at the same time than chances are that you will give up a lot more yards on the ground.

Philadelphia's defensive end draft choice last year Jamaal Green did not play at all during the season, he was placed on IR during the preseason. DE Derrick Burgess was hurt all of last year and was placed on IR before the season started as well. DE Jerome McDougle (last year's first round pick) was also hurt in the preseason. He did get back until week 9 and he played limited snaps after that because of his injury. He was rushed back onto the feild due to all of these injuries. I am aware that all three of these players are not known for stopping the rush but you know that having 3 more defensive ends in the rotation will help them stay strong and defend the run better because they will not get as many snaps. Keep them fresh.

Mark Simoneau is a very good MLB, small but good. He has one problem and that is getting off blocks. There have been a lot of rumors circulating about the release of Jeremiah Trotter from the Washington Redskins because of the signing of Mike Barrow. That release will happen as soon as June 1st comes around. As reported by John Clayton on his local radio show Trotter has said that he would come back to play in Philadelphia and Andy Reid has said, regarding this issue, that he would do what is best for his team. Andy Reid said the other day at a news coference that he would look to upgrade his LB core after June 1st, not giving any names just saying that there was room for improvement. Also, the Philadelphia Eagles did not add a single LB through the draft today or yesterday with any of their 10 draft picks. Personally, given this evidence, I would say that Trotter will be an Eagle again after June 1st to sure up the LB core. Mark Simoneau will then be moved to weak side (his natural position) and Trotter will be the MIKE LB.

Given this, I would have to say that the Eagles will not have any of the same problems that they had this season stopping the run. They were never known for great run stuffers, recently at least, but they are servicable when healthy.

[Tio]

First of all the Eagle's run defense was the best in the league until they lost Hollis Thomas and Paul Grasmanis. Dawin Walker and Corey Simon are both pass rushing DTs. Paul Grasmanis and Hollis Thomas are both run stoping DTs. If you loose both of your run stoping DTs at the same time than chances are that you will give up a lot more yards on the ground.

First of all that was early in the year (though i do not remember) so stats were skewed(like dallas having no.1 offense). I remember you headed to dallas with no. 2 run def ranking. You had faced the redskins, the bills, the pats and the bucs prior to that. These teams placed 21, 22, 23, and 26 in rushing offense. And unless Paul Grasmias and Hollis Thomas had a much bigger role than I assume, they only make resting and depth issues.

[Tio]

Philadelphia's defensive end draft choice last year Jamaal Green did not play at all during the season, he was placed on IR during the preseason. DE Derrick Burgess was hurt all of last year and was placed on IR before the season started as well. DE Jerome McDougle (last year's first round pick) was also hurt in the preseason. He did get back until week 9 and he played limited snaps after that because of his injury. He was rushed back onto the feild due to all of these injuries. I am aware that all three of these players are not known for stopping the rush but you know that having 3 more defensive ends in the rotation will help them stay strong and defend the run better because they will not get as many snaps. Keep them fresh.


This contridicts to your first statement. If you are implying that losing DTs were the difference between being the best and worst in rushing defense, then these guys had no difference since you were first without them, and horrible without them. Also you say they are rotation guys, did your team not sign any other ufa's during the season to help out?

[Tio]

.

Mark Simoneau is a very good MLB, small but good. He has one problem and that is getting off blocks. There have been a lot of rumors circulating about the release of Jeremiah Trotter from the Washington Redskins because of the signing of Mike Barrow. That release will happen as soon as June 1st comes around. As reported by John Clayton on his local radio show Trotter has said that he would come back to play in Philadelphia and Andy Reid has said, regarding this issue, that he would do what is best for his team. Andy Reid said the other day at a news coference that he would look to upgrade his LB core after June 1st, not giving any names just saying that there was room for improvement. Also, the Philadelphia Eagles did not add a single LB through the draft today or yesterday with any of their 10 draft picks. Personally, given this evidence, I would say that Trotter will be an Eagle again after June 1st to sure up the LB core. Mark Simoneau will then be moved to weak side (his natural position) and Trotter will be the MIKE LB.


Interesting. Trotter has good potential. But Trotter is new. You mite have some issues that can only be solved with a defense getting used to eachother over a period of time(like ne, dallas). Otherwise would be a good pickup.

[baj1dallas]

Smash mouth football, if that's the case why did we take Julius Jones and Jacob Rodgers instead of Steven Jackson and Max Starks?

Maybe we're aiming for two top 10 picks next year and we will cut Quincy Carter before TC.

[AJM1613]

First of all that was early in the year (though i do not remember) so stats were skewed(like dallas having no.1 offense). I remember you headed to dallas with no. 2 run def ranking. You had faced the redskins, the bills, the pats and the bucs prior to that. These teams placed 21, 22, 23, and 26 in rushing offense. And unless Paul Grasmias and Hollis Thomas had a much bigger role than I assume, they only make resting and depth issues.

Both of these players (or at least one of them) were put in on rushing downs. They got a lot of playing time for backups.

[Tio]

Both of these players (or at least one of them) were put in on rushing downs. They got a lot of playing time for backups.
Maybe so, are you talking about obvious rushing situations?(3rd and 1)

[AJM1613]

This contridicts to your first statement. If you are implying that losing DTs were the difference between being the best and worst in rushing defense, then these guys had no difference since you were first without them, and horrible without them. Also you say they are rotation guys, did your team not sign any other ufa's during the season to help out?
We signed two awful DEs to help out. Marco Coleman and Jim Flanigan. Marco Coleman was decent in his time but he is could only handle limited snaps and he is primarily a pass rushing end. Flanigan barely played and didn't play good. And no I wasn't contridicting my previous statement. When you add injuries to more injuries then you get a problem. A team can live through a few injuries but when you have 5 injuries on a 9 deep line then you have a problem.

[AJM1613]

Maybe so, are you talking about obvious rushing situations?(3rd and 1)
No, 1st and 10 and 2nd and short are also rushing downs.

[Tio]

We signed two awful DEs to help out. Marco Coleman and Jim Flanigan. Marco Coleman was decent in his time but he is could only handle limited snaps and he is primarily a pass rushing end. Flanigan barely played and didn't play good. And no I wasn't contridicting my previous statement. When you add injuries to more injuries then you get a problem. A team can live through a few injuries but when you have 5 injuries on a 9 deep line then you have a problem.
As you said they were mostly pass rushers who had limited snaps. Isn't coleman the same thing? So you are saying that losing a few de's (one was important) is ok, as long as noone else gets hurt? If your team could be no.1 rush defense without them, do they make much of a difference? Especially after facing horrible running teams?

[AJM1613]

Interesting. Trotter has good potential. But Trotter is new. You mite have some issues that can only be solved with a defense getting used to eachother over a period of time(like ne, dallas). Otherwise would be a good pickup.
Trotter is new? He played with us before. He has played in the system before (and was extremely good at it). Andy Reid and Jim Johnson have been plugging in new LBs every year since he came. We havn't had the same starters 2 years in a row yet. What do you mean keep a defense together for a long period of time? Dawkins, Lewis, Sheppard, Ware, Brown, Simon, McDougle, Walker, and Hood have all been on this defense their whole career. Taylor was on the team since he was drafted and left when he was 30. Vincent was on the team for as long as Taylor, he was with Miami for two years before that though. Trotter was on the team since he was drafted with two years off. Douglas was drafted by us. We have kept our defense together for a long period of time everywhere besides the LBs.

[Tio]

No, 1st and 10 and 2nd and short are also rushing downs.is that the frequency that they were put in? Then you have a huge liability in your DT position.

[Tio]

Trotter is new? He played with us before. He has played in the system before (and was extremely good at it). Andy Reid and Jim Johnson have been plugging in new LBs every year since he came. We havn't had the same starters 2 years in a row yet. What do you mean keep a defense together for a long period of time? Dawkins, Lewis, Sheppard, Ware, Brown, Simon, McDougle, Walker, and Hood have all been on this defense their whole career. Taylor was on the team since he was drafted and left when he was 30. Vincent was on the team for as long as Taylor, he was with Miami for two years before that though. Trotter was on the team since he was drafted with two years off. Douglas was drafted by us. We have kept our defense together for a long period of time everywhere besides the LBs.
I probably should have put a minor problem....did not no that rotation with your LB's...

But aren't you guys going to change systems? You had an agressive defense that blitzed almost every down because of your trust in your corner play. Do you think they still have that trust in your new starting cornerback group(though i know they got the majority of the snaps kast year)

[AJM1613]

As you said they were mostly pass rushers who had limited snaps. Isn't coleman the same thing? So you are saying that losing a few de's (one was important) is ok, as long as noone else gets hurt? If your team could be no.1 rush defense without them, do they make much of a difference? Especially after facing horrible running teams?
We had so little depth that Coleman was playing DT at some points of the year. Burgess was extremely important, he was the only starter that we lost last year, and McDougle was important also. That is two. Two potentially starting DEs are important.


BTW Where did you hear that Emmons might never play again?

[Tio]

We had so little depth that Coleman was playing DT at some points of the year. Burgess was extremely important, he was the only starter that we lost last year, and McDougle was important also. That is two. Two potentially starting DEs are important.


BTW Where did you hear that Emmons might never play again?
Where did I say that?

[AJM1613]

I probably should have put a minor problem....did not no that rotation with your LB's...

But aren't you guys going to change systems? You had an agressive defense that blitzed almost every down because of your trust in your corner play. Do you think they still have that trust in your new starting cornerback group(though i know they got the majority of the snaps kast year)

I think that they still trust the CBs this coming year. As you said they did get more than half the snaps last year (a lot more) and JJ still blitzed as much as he did before. You also have to realize that Brian Dawkins was hurt last season too. He is the most important player on the defense and he allows JJ to bitz whenever he wants. Sheppard, Brown and Ware are all shut down CBs just like Taylor and Vincent were. Ware was actually compared to Taylor before the draft by most draft experts.

[AJM1613]

Where did I say that?
I'm sorry. That question was directed to the starter of the thread.

[Tio]

I think that they still trust the CBs this coming year. As you said they did get more than half the snaps last year (a lot more) and JJ still blitzed as much as he did before. You also have to realize that Brian Dawkins was hurt last season too. He is the most important player on the defense and he allows JJ to bitz whenever he wants. Sheppard, Brown and Ware are all shut down CBs just like Taylor and Vincent were. Ware was actually compared to Taylor before the draft by most draft experts.
Yes but that could be due to not having time to teach the defense a new scheme. I will check how you did in pass coverage...

Also, doesn't this take away from dawkins game? He has to help the cbs out more with deep zone.....

[AJM1613]

Yes but that could be due to not having time to teach the defense a new scheme. I will check how you did in pass coverage...

Also, doesn't this take away from dawkins game? He has to help the cbs out more with deep zone.....
The CBs had plenty of time to develop. Ware is the only one that is a rookie. The other two are going into their third year. They shut down the Dallas recievers last year when they played.

[big dog cowboy]

I like our chances of winning the East. After a full year to evaluate and implement changes, Bill has this team heading in the direction.

[AJM1613]

I like our chances of winning the East. After a full year to evaluate and implement changes, Bill has this team heading in the direction.
You can't seriously believe that...

[Silverstar]

I like our chances of winning the East. After a full year to evaluate and implement changes, Bill has this team heading in the direction.


I agree.

We now have a legit RB with excellent speed, with no health or legal issues to worry about. Plus, we'll be upgrading our center with the return of Al Johnson. Rogers and Peterman are going to push Gurode, Vollers and Tucker big time. Our entire OL just got better and deeper in talent IMO. We added another good blocking TE in Sean Ryan and big FB in Barnes to help in the running game too. Campbell and Anderson are solid veterans, but why not get younger talent at those positions if you can...why wait? We added three more CB's and a WR for depth and ST's, because we need to get better on our return game.

Not to mention...

1. We now have 2 first round picks to play with in 2005.

2. We still got close to 10 million in cap space and I expect one or two more big FA's to sign after the June 1st cuts.


Our team is looking GREAT to me, especially when compared to the way things were with Campo in cap hell.

[Phrozen Phil]

Smash mouth football?

Let's try to look at this objectively.

You're relying on a rookie RB...an OLine with a good LT, a LG who the team was trying to let walk...a Center, who for all intents and purposes is a rookie...a question mark at RG...and a question mark at RT.

Too many variables.

If everything fell into place, Jones would be solid...Allen would have a resurgence or Peterman would prove to be a quality rookie starter...Johnson would perform at the expected level...at RG, Gurode would have a resurgence....and at RT Rogers, another Rookie would play as hoped for....that's two or three rookies, not counting Johnson...

That's a bit too much to expect.


THis team got younger this weekend, so we should temper our expectations. The new Oline guys will need time to learn and gel in their positions. We may not see ten wins this season, bur we will have a team witha future, particularly after next year's draft.

[Hiero]

I agree with this post a lot. I just wish we had gotten another player late in the draft at RB Turner or Moore or echemandu later on, because we after JJ and maybe Hambrick we have nobody else decent to run the ball.

[Tio]

You can't seriously believe that...
Can't seriously take the east? Why the hell not?

[AJM1613]

Can't seriously take the east? Why the hell not?
I will bet you now you don't get double digit wins.

[STSINAZ]

BOTTOM LINE, IT WILL TAKE ELI MANNING A YEAR TO GET THINGS TOGETHER SO THE GIANTS ARE NOT GOING TO BE THAT GOOD..

THE SKINS TO ME REALLY DONT HAVE THAT MUCH TALENT...WHO DO THEY HAVE?

Portis...ok he's good...but Springs can't cover and Brunell is very very injury prone. Daniels is ok but if he's your best passrusher you are in trouble...and that middle....it's soft...Arrington is ok but as I said before he overruns too many plays...Barrow is good but maybe this is the year he breaks down...he's getting up there. Coles is ok but what about that offensive line. They were terrible last year! If they dont block their Offense is screwed.

I dont see any reason why we cant beat both of those teams twice.

As far as the Birds, if they get all of their players back they still have questions at several spots. One of them is at corner. That blitzing stuff is going to have to stop because they are going to need too much help out there. Vincent and Taylor have left the building and Sheppard and Brown are very green. NO pun intended.

Kearse. If he stays healthy I would run at him all day. And when is Nate Wayne going to make a tackle! He had a bad year. Simoneau as I said is too small so please go and get Trotter back so one of our linemen can take his knee out....that will put him out of his misery for sure.

Bottom line is this: Dawkins is going to have to be running out there like a chicken with his head cut off to make sure the corners don't get beat and also to stop the run. He is going to be too tired to make those impact game changing plays that he is used to. You guys are in trouble and you should know it!

[Tobal]

Sheppard, Brown and Ware are all shut down CBs just like Taylor and Vincent were. Ware was actually compared to Taylor before the draft by most draft experts.

Thats a big stretch

[RatisBeast]

The CBs had plenty of time to develop. Ware is the only one that is a rookie. The other two are going into their third year. They shut down the Dallas recievers last year when they played.
Who didn't shut down our receivers ? I agree with you, ya'll are most likely going to win the division. To count us out already is pretty crazy though, you mean to tell me we have no chance to win the division at all ? Plus, i wouldn't claim your cb's are shutdown corners, much less a CB that hasn't even stepped on the NFL field yet. I'm sure your corners are fine, but let's not get overboard. It's okay to back your team, but by no means don't be a homer (especially in somebody else's board).