View Full Version : Kiper Just Said
boysfanindc
04-30-2006, 05:36 PM
Big suprise was boys not addressing FS:confused:
CrazyCowboy
04-30-2006, 05:36 PM
Guess he does not like Mr. Watkins?
Portland Fanatic
04-30-2006, 05:37 PM
Big suprise was boys not addressing FS:confused:
Maybe he's not sold on Watkins...
Curious...how many here are sold on Watkins? Have not seen enough to make any judgements....
CaptainMorgan
04-30-2006, 05:39 PM
Call me crazy but we could do alot worse than Keith Davis. We also signed Coleman to push him and now we drafted Watkins who is a talented guy.
I think we've addressed that position and Mr Kiper is a goof.
Jay9508
04-30-2006, 05:39 PM
Maybe he's not sold on Watkins...
Curious...how many here are sold on Watkins? Have not seen enough to make any judgements....Training Camp will be the time for me to judge him.
MadCow
04-30-2006, 05:40 PM
Mel had Pat Watkins rated as the 20th best safety in the draft.
CrazyCowboy
04-30-2006, 05:41 PM
Mel had Pat Watkins rated as the 20th best safety in the draft.
Really? Maybe I have this guy rated to high.....but, I sure do like his upside.
Chief
04-30-2006, 05:42 PM
Maybe he's not sold on Watkins...
Curious...how many here are sold on Watkins? Have not seen enough to make any judgements....
I liked him a lot coming in, but since he slid so far, I'm wondering if I seriously overrated him. I prefer the tall, rangy centerfield-type of free safeties (Michael Downs was a favorite of mine).
Since Dallas moved up to get him, that makes me feel a little better.
His size makes him an unusual player and I'm not sure some teams knew what to do with him. With his long legs, he may not have the quickness to cover the slot receiver or match up one-on-one with little guys, but he can certainly patrol deep and keep a lot of the crap that happened last year from happening again.
Rack Bauer
04-30-2006, 05:42 PM
Big suprise was boys not addressing FS:confused:
Kiper is a moron.
bobbie brewskie
04-30-2006, 05:42 PM
Mel had Pat Watkins rated as the 20th best safety in the draft.
mel has kellen clemens not in his top8 QBs (8 because leinhart, young, cutler werent included in top5) hes an idiot. Watkins is a great compliment to Williams and a good selection in the 5th. not an amazing player or anything but who cares.
jbsg02
04-30-2006, 05:43 PM
mel isnt the end all be all. most scouts has watkins at a 2nd or 3rd round pick
Jimmie
04-30-2006, 05:44 PM
Kiper or one of the other goons at ESPN, said Watkins would fit in nice behind Roy Williams..... Said he lacked coverage skills etc, just like Williams.
and they call him an "expert":laugh2:
X-Dawg
04-30-2006, 05:44 PM
No Kiper is dead on - Dallas missed the boat on Draft Day - we had and still have a massive hole at cover safety - Fasano was an asinine choice.
AMERICAS_FAN
04-30-2006, 05:45 PM
Mel had Pat Watkins rated as the 20th best safety in the draft.
And Scouts Inc has Watkins rated at the 6th best S in the draft, and a projected 3rd round pick. And in his bio they have him profiled as one of the top pure deep-zone coverage Safeties in the draft. This is exactly waht Dallas needs to relieve Roy Willimas of coverage responsibility and have him cherat up in the box instead. If Watkins pans out then we just made Roy a better player and that's scarry! Let's hope Watkins can win (by earning) the starting FS job.
AF
BigDFan5
04-30-2006, 05:45 PM
No Kiper is dead on - Dallas missed the boat on Draft Day - we had and still have a massive hole at cover safety - Fasano was an asinine choice.
yes we know you are a genius, the scouts are idiots blah blah blah rinse repeat
DBoys
04-30-2006, 05:46 PM
No Kiper is dead on - Dallas missed the boat on Draft Day - we had and still have a massive hole at cover safety - Fasano was an asinine choice.
No it's not conidering the formation we will be running.
VTEXPRESS
04-30-2006, 05:46 PM
No Kiper is dead on - Dallas missed the boat on Draft Day - we had and still have a massive hole at cover safety - Fasano was an asinine choice.
Which safety would you have taken in the second round?
Originally Posted by Bill Tobin
"Who in the hell is Mel Kiper, anyway?"
Mel the hair kiper strikes again :rolleyes:
AlcoholicNinja
04-30-2006, 05:47 PM
No Kiper is dead on - Dallas missed the boat on Draft Day - we had and still have a massive hole at cover safety - Fasano was an asinine choice.
Nonsense.
AsthmaField
04-30-2006, 05:48 PM
I'm sure Kiper meant that he was surprised that we didn't address it sooner. He has been saying for months now that we'd draft a FS in round 1.
He does just fine in scouting the prospects for the draft, but Kiper really needs to not try and guess what the team needs are. Clearly, Parcells and company are okay with Coleman/Davis/Watkins competing at FS. Just because Kiper thinks we should have gone FS in round 1 doesn't mean that's what we really needed to do, or that that's what Parcells wanted out of this draft.
Clearly, with us wanting to run a two TE set a whole lot, we thought the need to get a starting quality TE opposite Witten was more important that getting a FS to compete with Coleman/Davis.
cowboy4life
04-30-2006, 05:48 PM
Then why is it that ESPN's own draft guide had Watkins as #1 six overall rated safety, projected as a third round pick.
TwoSteppinJJ
04-30-2006, 05:48 PM
Mel had Pat Watkins rated as the 20th best safety in the draft.
I have mel rated the 20th biggest bag alive.
X-Dawg
04-30-2006, 05:49 PM
The Fasano pick ontop of the Ryan Hannam signing might be the worst pick we've made since Rod Hill.
Da Hammer
04-30-2006, 05:51 PM
Kiper is just mad because when didn't pick Jason Allen or Jimmy Williams like he predicted
big dog cowboy
04-30-2006, 05:51 PM
No Kiper is dead on - Dallas missed the boat on Draft Day - we had and still have a massive hole at cover safety - Fasano was an asinine choice.
WOW. Just wow. That is so far off the mark I don't know what else to say.
DanTanna
04-30-2006, 05:51 PM
Rogaine is bad for the brain.
Rack Bauer
04-30-2006, 05:52 PM
:eek: I have mel rated the 20th biggest bag alive.
:eek:
:lmao2:
:eek: :eek: :eek:
:lmao2: :lmao: :lmao2: :lmao: :lmao2: :lmao: :lmao2: :lmao:
AsthmaField
04-30-2006, 05:52 PM
The Fasano pick ontop of the Ryan Hannam signing might be the worst pick we've made since Rod Hill.
Dude, don't you understand that we needed a starting quality TE opposite Witten for what we're going to do and that Hannam wasn't that guy?
Why is that so hard for some people to grasp? There was a hole there. Just becuase you thought there wasn't doesn't make it so.
Clearly Parcells disagreed with you and took a very highly rated player that will really help the offense.
ZeroClub
04-30-2006, 05:53 PM
Yeah, I heard Mel Kiper say that about the Cowboys not addressing free safety.
I assumed that Kiper just made a mistake - misspoke.
I'd guess that Kiper was surprised that the Cowboys didn't draft higher rated OL (pre 7th rounds).
PAISAN247
04-30-2006, 05:54 PM
Kiper is a moron.
:signmast: :hammer:
cowboy4life
04-30-2006, 05:55 PM
:hammer: Kiper is just mad because when didn't pick Jason Allen or Jimmy Williams like he predicted
:hammer:
The irony is many would have loved Ko Simpson in the second round, calling it a "value" pick, yet he's a guy that slid all the way to Day 2.
The Fasano pick ontop of the Ryan Hannam signing might be the worst pick we've made since Rod Hill.
No offense, but you should attempt to have a grasp of what is going on before making such absurd comments.
You don't have to like the pick, but clearly, there is a need for a second tight end considering the new direction of the offense.
VTEXPRESS
04-30-2006, 06:00 PM
The irony is many would have loved Ko Simpson in the second round, calling it a "value" pick, yet he's a guy that slid all the way to Day 2.
So true
Billy Bullocks
04-30-2006, 06:03 PM
I liked him a lot coming in, but since he slid so far, I'm wondering if I seriously overrated him. I prefer the tall, rangy centerfield-type of free safeties (Michael Downs was a favorite of mine).
Since Dallas moved up to get him, that makes me feel a little better.
His size makes him an unusual player and I'm not sure some teams knew what to do with him. With his long legs, he may not have the quickness to cover the slot receiver or match up one-on-one with little guys, but he can certainly patrol deep and keep a lot of the crap that happened last year from happening again.
Agreed. Watching his tape, you got the sense that he wasn't the quickest guy, as you would see AFTER he picked off the ball, and I emphasize AFTER because he made the pick.
He's got real nice leaping ability, and on teh highlite tape (which is obviously only going to show you his best plays), he comes up with the jump balls. He also does a good job reading the QB, and then jumping a route. Dont hang too many up there over the middle, cuz he'll bring em in.
Decent tackler, made a few big hits from what I saw, but fundamentally he's pretty sound. Draft bio says he could move to LB, well he wont for us, but I dont see it in him either way. Being so tall, he looks like a more compact player might be hard for him to bring down. Wraps up nicely though, so if he is going for a stop, he'll definately slow down, if not bring down the ball carrier. Marcus Coleman has me a bit less worried if this pick doesnt pan out.
MichaelWinicki
04-30-2006, 06:03 PM
"Ourlads" had Pat Watkins the 4th best free safety by a wide margin over guys like Roman Harper, Nate Salley, Anthony Smith and Calvin Lowry.
They had him projected to go to Dallas in the second round at pick #49.
Mel's f'ed up.
X-Dawg
04-30-2006, 06:17 PM
No offense, but you should attempt to have a grasp of what is going on before making such absurd comments.
You don't have to like the pick, but clearly, there is a need for a second tight end considering the new direction of the offense.
Grasp? I've been a Cowboys fan longer then you've been alive - - There was no need for Hananam then and a waste of CAP space. Change in offense? what would that be? You really buy a change? Jerry said that b/c he had nothing else to say . There's no change, we lost LA and we IMO we still cannot run the football b/c we lack the headbangers required up front -WHICH BRINGS ME TO my next point Carpenter was another poor pick when the obvious need was Nick Mangold. We have not had a true top flight horse in the middle since Step and old man Donaldson. IMO Center and Safety is where we should have gone.
Discuss...."no offense"
zrinkill
04-30-2006, 06:22 PM
Grasp? I've been a Cowboys fan longer then you've been alive - - There was no need for Hananam then and a waste of CAP space. Change in offense? what would that be? You really buy a change? Jerry said that b/c he had nothing else to say . There's no change, we lost LA and we IMO we still cannot run the football b/c we lack the headbangers required up front -WHICH BRINGS ME TO my next point Carpenter was another poor pick when the obvious need was Nick Mangold. We have not had a true top flight horse in the middle since Step and old man Donaldson. IMO Center and Safety is where we should have gone.
Discuss...."no offense"
So you REALLY think they drafted a guy they dont need and are just covering ? Thats what you really believe? The guy who fired Tom Landry, Jimmy Johnson, and hired the hated T.O. is trying to cover or make excuses for a signing .....
What does "retard" mean?
johnnyd
04-30-2006, 06:25 PM
can't believe he didnt even have Laron landry in his top 10 for next year ...
MichaelWinicki
04-30-2006, 06:27 PM
Grasp? I've been a Cowboys fan longer then you've been alive - - There was no need for Hananam then and a waste of CAP space. Change in offense? what would that be? You really buy a change? Jerry said that b/c he had nothing else to say . There's no change, we lost LA and we IMO we still cannot run the football b/c we lack the headbangers required up front -WHICH BRINGS ME TO my next point Carpenter was another poor pick when the obvious need was Nick Mangold. We have not had a true top flight horse in the middle since Step and old man Donaldson. IMO Center and Safety is where we should have gone.
Discuss...."no offense"
I'm guessing that if Jerry and Bill thought center was such a hole they would have done something about it. But alas, that was not the case.
BulletBob
04-30-2006, 06:28 PM
I have mel rated the 20th biggest bag alive.
Wow, he must have really slid. I had him in my top 5!
zrinkill
04-30-2006, 06:29 PM
But the internet geniuses and Mel Kiper know more than Bill and Ireland.
Just ask them
TwoSteppinJJ
04-30-2006, 06:32 PM
Wow, he must have really slid. I had him in my top 5!
:laugh2::laugh1:
Lets just say he had a bad 40 time.
tomo817
04-30-2006, 06:33 PM
I can't believe people are actually stressing over something Mel Kiper said!!...Too Funny!.....He's nothing more than some scumbag that knows useless details of every player's life.......Who would you have more trust in?....Parcells or Kiper?....Enough said!.....Now the draft is over, he can go back to Vegas and make his living as an Elvis impersonator w/ that roadkill
on his head!.....lol
big dog cowboy
04-30-2006, 06:37 PM
Grasp? I've been a Cowboys fan longer then you've been alive - - There was no need for Hananam then and a waste of CAP space. Change in offense? what would that be? You really buy a change? Jerry said that b/c he had nothing else to say . There's no change, we lost LA and we IMO we still cannot run the football b/c we lack the headbangers required up front -WHICH BRINGS ME TO my next point Carpenter was another poor pick when the obvious need was Nick Mangold. We have not had a true top flight horse in the middle since Step and old man Donaldson. IMO Center and Safety is where we should have gone.
Discuss...."no offense"
Glad you don't work for the Cowboys.
tomo817
04-30-2006, 06:38 PM
Why is that Big Dog???
big dog cowboy
04-30-2006, 06:40 PM
The irony is many would have loved Ko Simpson in the second round, calling it a "value" pick, yet he's a guy that slid all the way to Day 2.
Obviously teams put much more value on his wonderlic score than average fans did. It really doesn't matter what round he went in, his questionable intelligence level will always hold him back.
big dog cowboy
04-30-2006, 06:43 PM
Why is that Big Dog???
Ummmmmmm did you read what he said? His 2 posts are really off the mark. No need for Hannam? Carpenter a poor pick? Obvious need was Mangold? Safety is where we should have gone? Clearly his perspective of our roster isn't mainsteam thinking.
ComicBookGuy
04-30-2006, 06:44 PM
Amazing how poor Wonderlic scores holds some players back but not others...
I also don't understand the Fasano. To me it didn't make sense. No matter what people think or say, we have BIGGER needs than TE in the second round. Could have gotten a tackle at that point. McNeil was still there Winston was there. To me spending a 2nd round pick on a TE when you have Witten and signed Hannam just doesn't make sense. Do you guy realise that we used a higher pick to get Fasano then we did to get Witten?
Now I don't think it's the end of the world but they could have gone in another direction.
Eddie
04-30-2006, 06:56 PM
I also don't understand the Fasano. To me it didn't make sense. No matter what people think or say, we have BIGGER needs than TE in the second round. Could have gotten a tackle at that point. McNeil was still there Winston was there. To me spending a 2nd round pick on a TE when you have Witten and signed Hannam just doesn't make sense. Do you guy realise that we used a higher pick to get Fasano then we did to get Witten?
Now I don't think it's the end of the world but they could have gone in another direction.
Forget it. Jerry Jones has his blind masses enthralled already.
Never question authority. Let the experts do their job. Jerry Jones is in control.
Believe in Jerry Jones ... cuz he never lies.
We're going with a 2 TE set on every single play now. That gives us more weapons to choose from. Wow ... that just leaves one less FB to block the onrush of defenders crashing through our leaky OL.
But that doesn't matter ... we're going to a 2 TE system. Heck, I have a better idea ... let's go with a 4 TE system. That'll really confuse the heck out of our opponents.
big dog cowboy
04-30-2006, 06:57 PM
Amazing how poor Wonderlic scores holds some players back but not others...
I think it depends on the position they play. Simpson plays FS and would be the one making all the calls on D for alignments and so on. Just like a QB who struggles reading defenses, most teams thought Simpson would struggle with his assignments.
big dog cowboy
04-30-2006, 06:58 PM
I also don't understand the Fasano. To me it didn't make sense. No matter what people think or say, we have BIGGER needs than TE in the second round.
Did you hear JJ or Ireland talking about our offense and the reason we picked Fasano? If you didn't, I can understand why you question the pick. If you did, that should explain everything.
Yeah they want to go 2 TEs more and all that. Well that's the same thing I heard as the reason they signed Hannam.
AlcoholicNinja
04-30-2006, 07:04 PM
Yeah they want to go 2 TEs more and all that. Well that's the same thing I heard as the reason they signed Hannam.
And that was the reason. Ireland stated that Hannam was signed as insurance in case they weren't able to get one of the TE's they wanted in the draft.
zrinkill
04-30-2006, 07:05 PM
Yeah they want to go 2 TEs more and all that. Well that's the same thing I heard as the reason they signed Hannam.
They want to make it our base offense. not just play it more and "all that"
so you guys don't question the pick at all? When you first saw the pick you guys were all for it?
JBond
04-30-2006, 07:08 PM
No Kiper is dead on - Dallas missed the boat on Draft Day - we had and still have a massive hole at cover safety - Fasano was an asinine choice.
Who pissed on your Cheerios?
Screw The Hall
04-30-2006, 07:09 PM
Maybe he's not sold on Watkins...
Curious...how many here are sold on Watkins? Have not seen enough to make any judgements....
I like the guy, I'll say this ... the kids got alot of tools to work with, doesn't always show up on the field but if it did we don't get him at that spot. Good value in my opinion, hopefully a guy Parcells can coach up.
bobbie brewskie
04-30-2006, 07:09 PM
so you guys don't question the pick at all? When you first saw the pick you guys were all for it?
when we first saw it we didnt notice the upside because we were all stuck on getting a OLB/FS/OL in the first 3 rounds, and didnt even have a TE in mind. what we realized was hannam can not play the 2nd TE spot in the 2TE set. so you look at it and not only dos Fasano give us the right player for the TE spot but also helps out at FB and WR . . .
zrinkill
04-30-2006, 07:11 PM
so you guys don't question the pick at all? When you first saw the pick you guys were all for it?
Yea I was like ..... Till I realized they wanted to go too a Star 2 tightend set ....
Think of the possibilities man ..... think of stopping Witten and Shocky ..... or 2 Wittens plus T.O. and little Glenn
It would be a Nightmare for D's ........ if it works
theogt
04-30-2006, 07:12 PM
Chad Jackson is a must'nough said.
AlcoholicNinja
04-30-2006, 07:13 PM
so you guys don't question the pick at all? When you first saw the pick you guys were all for it?
I was somewhat suprised, but leading up to the pick, the guys on the ticket continually stated that the Cowboys strongly felt that TE was where the value was in the second round. Then, after reading about the player, and hearing Ireland/Jones' explanation, I was satisfied. To each their own.
big dog cowboy
04-30-2006, 07:15 PM
I was somewhat suprised, but leading up to the pick, the guys on the ticket continually stated that the Cowboys strongly felt that TE was where the value was in the second round. Then, after reading about the player, and hearing Ireland/Jones' explanation, I was satisfied. To each their own.
Exactly.
Armbender
04-30-2006, 07:48 PM
Kiper said that Watkins was drafted for special teams help. What an idiot.
I was somewhat suprised, but leading up to the pick, the guys on the ticket continually stated that the Cowboys strongly felt that TE was where the value was in the second round. Then, after reading about the player, and hearing Ireland/Jones' explanation, I was satisfied. To each their own.
Yeah. For me I'm not questioning the talent of the player. But obviously Parcells and Jones/Ireland know what they want to do more than I do. Hopefully it works out the way they all envison it.
BHendri5
04-30-2006, 08:05 PM
Kiper is a moron.
You hit the nail on the head.
ComicBookGuy
04-30-2006, 08:49 PM
I'd love to have a job where I could be wrong over half the time and be considered an "expert".
Galian Beast
04-30-2006, 08:58 PM
Big suprise was boys not addressing FS:confused:
Mel Kiper was a moron that was sold on us drafting a safety in the first round. When it was obvious that we weren't going to draft one in the first two rounds.
He is angry that he was so completely off base.
We addressed safety with Watkins AND Coleman.
And the fact remains if you have a quick coverage guy in the secondary it allows roy williams more flexibility to come towards the line. Add that to an improved pass rush... and you have an even better secondary.
adbutcher
04-30-2006, 09:03 PM
First TO and now this, lol.
StanleySpadowski
04-30-2006, 09:06 PM
so you guys don't question the pick at all? When you first saw the pick you guys were all for it?
I've been saying that Fasano was the pick for the last few weeks so yes, I was all for it.
MinnesotaCowboy
04-30-2006, 09:08 PM
I hope we haven't drafted an "attitude" with Watkins.........he seemed highly insulted that he was drafted so low! Maybe he will play to get even!:D
I still think Davis with a years experience under his belt will be much improved and will be our starting FS!
Galian Beast
04-30-2006, 09:15 PM
Yea I was like ..... Till I realized they wanted to go too a Star 2 tightend set ....
Think of the possibilities man ..... think of stopping Witten and Shocky ..... or 2 Wittens plus T.O. and little Glenn
It would be a Nightmare for D's ........ if it works
It was a move Parcells and Jones must have seen as the most effective way to improve our offensive production.
You create mismatches by having receiving tight ends in your formation... by having two you create a real problem for offenses, that were already going to have trouble with terrell owens, terry glenn, and jason witten.
Basically teams are going to have to remain in the nickel all day..., and we'll run on them all day with 7 offensive linemen against 6 linemen and linebackers.
zrinkill
04-30-2006, 09:17 PM
It was a move Parcells and Jones must have seen as the most effective way to improve our offensive production.
You create mismatches by having receiving tight ends in your formation... by having two you create a real problem for offenses, that were already going to have trouble with terrell owens, terry glenn, and jason witten.
Basically teams are going to have to remain in the nickel all day..., and we'll run on them all day with 7 offensive linemen against 6 linemen and linebackers.
Exactly .... :ohboy:
Jammer
04-30-2006, 09:29 PM
I have mel rated the 20th biggest bag alive.
So, you're saying there are 19 bigger bags alive?
zrinkill
04-30-2006, 09:51 PM
We have one playing Wide reciever for us ..... :laugh2:
Bonwickean
04-30-2006, 11:20 PM
And a Wonderlic score of -2
Bob Sacamano
04-30-2006, 11:47 PM
Maybe he's not sold on Watkins...
Curious...how many here are sold on Watkins? Have not seen enough to make any judgements....
Watkins is big and fast, and looked smooth turning and running in coverage in Senior Bowl workouts, he's somewhat of a project, but the talent is tremendous
Bob Sacamano
04-30-2006, 11:51 PM
I also don't understand the Fasano. To me it didn't make sense. No matter what people think or say, we have BIGGER needs than TE in the second round.
what part about we're going to be running alot of 2-TE formations, so we need 2 starting caliber TEs, don't some of you guys understand?
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