Attention Kiper Haters:

[2much2soon]

They were interviewing Daryn Colledge on the local sports talk radio in Boise this afternoon.
They asked Colledge about Kiper's comments that he is too weak in the upper body to play in the NFL since he only did 22 reps in the bench press.
Colledge explained that BSU's weight program focused on squats and power cleans for building strength, with almost no bench press training.
Colledge then called Kiper an idiot who reads stats on paper and thinks he knows everything about a player. It was hilarious.

[theogt]

Nice.

[dbair1967]

Colledge then called Kiper an idiot who reads stats on paper and thinks he knows everything about a player. It was hilarious.

and true

Kiper has turned into a real annoying person IMO, and his draft "expertise" this weekend was really lacking

Mayock was much more informed IMO

David

[VoR]

Dallas wanted him in the 2nd. Too bad, he's going to be good.

[CrazyCowboy]

Tell it like it is huh? LOL

[TwoSteppinJJ]

The thing I like about mayock is that he doesnt act like a "Know It All" goof.

[The Realist]

More than Kaczur (15 ish) and Mankins 21. They started 26 combined games last year.

[MiStar]

Colledge is the man, it's a shame that he isn't a Cowboy.

[Chuck 54]

They were interviewing Daryn Colledge on the local sports talk radio in Boise this afternoon.
They asked Colledge about Kiper's comments that he is too weak in the upper body to play in the NFL since he only did 22 reps in the bench press.
Colledge explained that BSU's weight program focused on squats and power cleans for building strength, with almost no bench press training.
Colledge then called Kiper an idiot who reads stats on paper and thinks he knows everything about a player. It was hilarious.
Maybe I'm not getting the point...if the guy is weak in the upper body and only did 22 reps, pretty sad for an OT, then how does that make Kiper wrong? REgardless of the kid's excuse for his lack of upper body strength in the bench press, which is a key lift for an offensive lineman who is essentially bench pressing against the defender on every play, isn't kiper still correct?

[cstanton1987]

Maybe I'm not getting the point...if the guy is weak in the upper body and only did 22 reps, pretty sad for an OT, then how does that make Kiper wrong? REgardless of the kid's excuse for his lack of upper body strength in the bench press, which is a key lift for an offensive lineman who is essentially bench pressing against the defender on every play, isn't kiper still correct?

No a linemen getting out of his stance in run blocking explodes from his legs not his arms. Upper-body strength is a little more important in pass blocking.

[stealth]

Maybe I'm not getting the point...if the guy is weak in the upper body and only did 22 reps, pretty sad for an OT, then how does that make Kiper wrong? REgardless of the kid's excuse for his lack of upper body strength in the bench press, which is a key lift for an offensive lineman who is essentially bench pressing against the defender on every play, isn't kiper still correct?

I can bench press quite a lot more than most regular people and it means jack as far as how well I can push some guy around course if he would let me lay on my back...ok nvm this got wierd forget I said anything

[jumanji]

nobody knows which players will pan out...nobody. all you can do is look at numbers, look at stats and numbers, talk to coaches and after all that....guess.

that's all anybody can do. kiper like any other draft expert and there are tons, including several self proclaimed ones on here is never right 100% of the time.

its an opinion he sellls, his. why is that so hard for people to swallow

[silver]

Maybe I'm not getting the point...if the guy is weak in the upper body and only did 22 reps, pretty sad for an OT, then how does that make Kiper wrong? REgardless of the kid's excuse for his lack of upper body strength in the bench press, which is a key lift for an offensive lineman who is essentially bench pressing against the defender on every play, isn't kiper still correct?
i agree. larry allen can bench press kiper and colledge together. that's what makes him good. i wonder how many reps good ol jacob rogers did at the combine in '04

[davey999]

and true

Kiper has turned into a real annoying person IMO, and his draft "expertise" this weekend was really lacking

Mayock was much more informed IMO

David

Forget Mayock, how about Corey Chavous?

[silver]

Forget Mayock, how about Corey Chavous?
Chavous is the man. I wish he was a Cowboy :banghead:

[baj1dallas]

Maybe I'm not getting the point...if the guy is weak in the upper body and only did 22 reps, pretty sad for an OT, then how does that make Kiper wrong? REgardless of the kid's excuse for his lack of upper body strength in the bench press, which is a key lift for an offensive lineman who is essentially bench pressing against the defender on every play, isn't kiper still correct?


There are powerlifters that can benchpress 1000 pounds, but couldn't play two downs in the NFL. Think about it, what is the strength you need in your upper body to be an o-lineman. It's not to push. You use your hands for leverage and drive with your legs. You need an explosive hand punch off the snap to establish it, that is where your upper body comes in.

And besides, can you do 22 reps with 225 pounds?

[MadCow]

Forget Mayock, how about Corey Chavous?

Chavous was great on the NFL Network. Definitely big future ahead for him once he stops playing.

[2much2soon]

There are powerlifters that can benchpress 1000 pounds, but couldn't play two downs in the NFL. Think about it, what is the strength you need in your upper body to be an o-lineman. It's not to push. You use your hands for leverage and drive with your legs. You need an explosive hand punch off the snap to establish it, that is where your upper body comes in.

And besides, can you do 22 reps with 225 pounds?

Exactly, leg and lower torso/trunk strength are where real power come from.
Sure, LA can bench press a helluva lot, but he is also extremely powerful from the mid-drift on down.

[ddh33]

I don't get caught up in the hatred of Mel Kiper. He's just a guy who has a job most of us would like to have. I think Mel's most impressive attribute is that he can say something about every single player.

I actually watched the draft on NFL Network. I really enjoy Mike Mayock. Corey Chavous also did a fine job of commenting on players. Between the two of them, you get to see a player more from a player/former player perspective.

With all due respect to ESPN (which is very little), they need to get some guys on their program that actually watch games and know the players names.

[Bob Sacamano]

Maybe I'm not getting the point...if the guy is weak in the upper body and only did 22 reps, pretty sad for an OT, then how does that make Kiper wrong?

Kiper is wrong because Colledge didn't bench at Boise State, they didn't ask their players to, and yet he still managed to put up 22 reps, that's pretty good for someone who doesn't work at it

[tyke1doe]

No a linemen getting out of his stance in run blocking explodes from his legs not his arms. Upper-body strength is a little more important in pass blocking.

But linemen also have to lock their hands onto defenders and defend against swim moves, chops and other arm-battling techinques and that requires upper body strength.

And Kiper was right. Sounds like Colledge was giving a reason why he wasn't strong in the upper body. So what if Boise State didn't focus on the bench press.

That seems to be the reason why he didn't do more reps. Weakness, of course, is relative to what other linemen were able to do.

[2much2soon]

But linemen also have to lock their hands onto defenders and defend against swim moves, chops and other arm-battling techinques and that requires upper body strength.

And Kiper was right. Sounds like Colledge was giving a reason why he wasn't strong in the upper body. So what if Boise State didn't focus on the bench press.

That seems to be the reason why he didn't do more reps. Weakness, of course, is relative to what other linemen were able to do.

I think NFL personnel people know what is important when it comes to measurables. And they know there is more to the strength equation than the bench press.
Obviously, if they felt Colledge's bench press numbers were a problem, as Kiper claimed, they certainly wouldn't have made him the 3rd OT taken in the draft.
Kiper carved out a niche as a broadcaster/self-appointed draft guru based on his personality and ability to create controversy among fans.
Its working, isn't it?
Personally, I don't like him because he is another product of the ESPN syndrome where commentators think they are more important than the sports they cover. They are given a lot of latitude to run their mouths on national TV even though they are off base a lot of the time.

[Yakuza Rich]

They were interviewing Daryn Colledge on the local sports talk radio in Boise this afternoon.
They asked Colledge about Kiper's comments that he is too weak in the upper body to play in the NFL since he only did 22 reps in the bench press.
Colledge explained that BSU's weight program focused on squats and power cleans for building strength, with almost no bench press training.
Colledge then called Kiper an idiot who reads stats on paper and thinks he knows everything about a player. It was hilarious.

What's funnier is that Robert Gallery did 25 reps at the combine and some of them were disputed, saying he was bouncing the bar off his chest instead of pushing the weight upwards.

Really, doing 22 bench press reps for an O-Linemen is nothing to get in a tuff over.


Rich......

[Eddie]

Maybe I'm not getting the point...if the guy is weak in the upper body and only did 22 reps, pretty sad for an OT, then how does that make Kiper wrong? REgardless of the kid's excuse for his lack of upper body strength in the bench press, which is a key lift for an offensive lineman who is essentially bench pressing against the defender on every play, isn't kiper still correct?


22 reps at 225 is not an indication of strength. It's an indication of his endurance. 225 for a pro athlete is NOT alot of weight ... it's like us trying to bench 50 lbs.

It's not that we don't have the strength to lift more, but our endurance falls off.

My guess is he can power lift 500+ lbs without a problem. Strength training is not about repetitions ... it's about intensity and weight.

I bet most professional and olympic power lifters can't do many reps at 225 either. But throw on 700 lbs on the bar, and they'll throw it through the roof.

Colledge would have been a nice addition to the Cowboys.

[hipfake08]

No a linemen getting out of his stance in run blocking explodes from his legs not his arms. Upper-body strength is a little more important in pass blocking.

Short of being Larry Allen.
Few and far between.

You have to move your feet to get into position for good drive blocks.

[superpunk]

The thing I like about mayock is that he doesnt act like a "Know It All" goof.

That, and he actually breaks down game tape, rather than reciting mindless stats and combine numbers. Those are nice, but we can all see them anyway. Mayock's analysis was great - and Corey Chavous is awesome.

[hipfake08]

I think NFL personnel people know what is important when it comes to measurables. And they know there is more to the strength equation than the bench press.
Obviously, if they felt Colledge's bench press numbers were a problem, as Kiper claimed, they certainly wouldn't have made him the 3rd OT taken in the draft.
Kiper carved out a niche as a broadcaster/self-appointed draft guru based on his personality and ability to create controversy among fans.
Its working, isn't it?
Personally, I don't like him because he is another product of the ESPN syndrome where commentators think they are more important than the sports they cover. They are given a lot of latitude to run their mouths on national TV even though they are off base a lot of the time.

Thanks. :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

I think some of the ESPN guys - Irvine for one do not think the way the daily announcers do.
Mike thinks as an entertainer. Which is what I like.

[ThreeSportStar80]

Chaveous will be a great talent evaluator for the NFL one day, he's a natural.

[AbeBeta]

what I find funny is that Colledge says Kiper is an idiot.

Colledge knew he'd be bench pressing and that his weight program hadn't focused on that. Ya think you might want to train a little there?

Colledge busts out better combine strength #s and he's in the first round making a ton more money.

Who is the idiot now?

[30yrheel]

what I find funny is that Colledge says Kiper is an idiot.

Colledge knew he'd be bench pressing and that his weight program hadn't focused on that. Ya think you might want to train a little there?

Colledge busts out better combine strength #s and he's in the first round making a ton more money.

Who is the idiot now?
My thoughts exactly. You have to work on the things that you know will be tested, so he should've worked to improve his bench (or maybe he did and that's all he can do?). anybody can improve if given a few weeks to prepare.

[Chief]

what I find funny is that Colledge says Kiper is an idiot.

Colledge knew he'd be bench pressing and that his weight program hadn't focused on that. Ya think you might want to train a little there?

Colledge busts out better combine strength #s and he's in the first round making a ton more money.

Who is the idiot now?

I agree.

And I read somewhere before the draft that this kid is an oddball.

[JIGGYFLY]

what I find funny is that Colledge says Kiper is an idiot.

Colledge knew he'd be bench pressing and that his weight program hadn't focused on that. Ya think you might want to train a little there?

Colledge busts out better combine strength #s and he's in the first round making a ton more money.

Who is the idiot now?
:signmast: Simple if it was not important nfl people would not ask them to do it and for those that have never played on the o-line bench press and squats are the most important numbers to gauge strenght in a lineman, like a poster said above it is also a test of stamina and if your reps are low that means you strenght will not last long, meaning you might start getting beat late in a game.