Jean-Jacques Taylor: Henson Project Could Be Sacked

[The Answer]

Jean-Jacques Taylor: Henson project could be sacked

Drew Henson's days in Dallas are numbered. That might be a good thing.

During last week's minicamp, coach Bill Parcells said he wasn't that impressed with Henson's performance in NFL Europe. Tony Romo has clearly passed Henson on the depth chart, and as long as Parcells is the head coach – of course that might only be for one more season – then Henson isn't going to move on the depth chart.

Parcells, a bottom-line kind of guy, didn't talk about the numerous dropped passes Henson had in NFL Europe. And he didn't mention how injuries essentially robbed the former Michigan star of his top four weapons – none passed their year-end physicals, according to Henson.

None of that bodes well for Henson in terms of his tenure with the Cowboys.

The Cowboys like his game management and his arm, but the NFL is about decision-making, and they seem to think he doesn't do it well enough.

It's not that he throws a lot of interceptions. It's that he stares down receivers and doesn't process information quickly enough to consistently make the best read based on the play selection and the defensive coverage.

That's not to say he wouldn't succeed in another scheme – he might – but time appears to be running out in Dallas, where Drew Bledsoe is probably going to be the quarterback for the next two seasons.

Henson can't afford to spend another two years on the bench. He needs to go to a team that believes in his future – and will give him a legitimate opportunity to compete for playing time.

Parcells already has made up his mind.


COWBOYS Q&A

Q: With Bill Parcells placing a premium on field position, does it make more sense to have a kickoff specialist on the roster as opposed to a backup lineman or defensive back?

Timothy Stearns

TAYLOR: It would've made more sense for owner Jerry Jones to spend another $500,000 or $700,000 to sign Adam Vinatieri. By the time the Cowboys pay a guy just to kick off, then it would've been a pittance to add Vinatieri. That said, Mike Vanderjagt is a quality kicker who will help the Cowboys. He says he can handle kickoffs, but since he hasn't done it in years, I refuse to believe he'll be handling kickoffs in September against Jacksonville. Field position is huge, and for a guy who likes versatility on his roster, Parcells is going to find himself a one-dimensional long snapper and a kickoff specialist.

• • •

Q: I think Greg Ellis should stop all his whining and just play ball. He's only a little above average at best. His pay seems to match his playing level, especially at this stage of his career. I realize how the business works, but Greg, wasn't that your name you signed on your last contract?

Greg Carrier, China, Texas

TAYLOR: I understand your point, but Ellis would argue that he signed his name on that contract to be a defensive end in the 4-3 – not a linebacker in the 3-4. I would also be curious if you take the same approach when a team asks a player to take a pay cut, even though he has a signed contract calling for a certain salary. The NFL is a business at every level, and Ellis is doing his best to ensure he isn't discarded at the end of the season. No 32-year-old – Ellis' age at the end of the season – wants to enter free agency with consecutive seasons of declining production, especially when the poor numbers are the result of the scheme and not the player's ability.

• • •

Q: What are your thoughts with this situation with Greg Ellis? He could probably move on to another team and have three to four more productive years. The Cowboys probably need to treat this situation like they did with La'Roi Glover, who has moved on to be a member of the St. Louis Rams.

Kerwin Price, Dallas

TAYLOR: That would be nice, but it's not going to happen because the Cowboys need Ellis as an insurance policy at defensive end and to rush the passer since DeMarcus Ware is the only other accomplished pass rusher on the roster. I understand both perspectives in this situation, which is why it's not going to be resolved. Ellis will be at training camp, but he's not going to be happy.

• • •

Q: Do you get the feeling Drew Henson regrets ever signing with the Cowboys? He must realize he'll never get a look while Bill Parcells is the coach. What do you think?

George McCabe, New York

TAYLOR: I think you have to look beyond Henson's lack of playing time in games and consider that he auditions every day for Parcells in practice. And don't forget that he and Tony Romo were essentially tied – alternating between the backup and third-string job – in Henson's rookie year. Now, Romo is the backup and Henson is third string, and they threw the same number of NFL passes last season: none. Maybe Henson isn't that good. He's a likable guy and I hope he succeeds, but maybe the time spent in baseball robbed him of the intangibles that made him a great player at Michigan.

• • •

Q: I've never cared for Parcells because of how he handles players. If Parcells was straightforward, then he would have sat down with Henson after the end of the NFL Europe season and done a face-to-face evaluation. Why does any player have to find out things via the media?

Efren Maldanado

TAYLOR: Maybe the fact that Parcells didn't go out of his way to talk to Henson about his performance in NFL Europe spoke volumes. Maybe since he didn't have anything good to say, he didn't want to say anything. Parcells is known for being honest with his players. I don't think that's going to change.

• • •

Q: Do you see either Andre Gurode or Al Johnson taking their game to the next level this season?

Kyle Lang, Crown Point, N.Y.

TAYLOR: I don't know. We'll have to let their performances speak for them. I will, however, say that the competition is so intense that you should get each players' best performance. Each understands there is no margin for error to become the starter. Trust me, Parcells wishes he had that type of competition at every position.

• • •

Q: About releasing Larry Allen, my understanding was that the huge roster bonus was a driving force in this action. I thought during the season that a big problem with him was that he was out of playing shape. In several games, he appeared to be gassed and just unable to play effectively. Am I remembering correctly?

Joe Taylor

TAYLOR: I don't think so. Allen's peers thought enough of him to put him in the Pro Bowl for the 10th time last season. He was released because he was good player being paid like a great player, and owner Jerry Jones really didn't want to ask him to take a significant pay cut because of the respect he has for him.

• • •

Q: In my opinion, Kevin Burnett really needs to become a big contributor this season in order for us to get better. What have you seen or heard that would allow you to have an opinion on his progress?

William Carrick, New Hartford, N.Y.

TAYLOR: I would say it's not a positive that he wasn't ready to practice in last week's minicamp. Then again, all indications are that he will be ready for the start of training camp. He wasn't much of a factor last season, so I can't really sit here and tell you how important he is to the Cowboys' success this season

• • •

Q: Will the Cowboys use a second- or third-round draft choice in the supplemental draft on Virginia linebacker Ahmad Brooks?

Irma Mascarenhas

TAYLOR: I don't think they'll use that high a pick on him. If they pull the trigger, I see it coming in the fifth or sixth round. Books is a phenomenal athlete who reportedly was running the 40-yard dash in 4.75 at 275 pounds a couple of weeks ago. He wants to weigh about 260 for his workout day later this month. Current defensive end Chris Canty said Brooks is the best player he's ever seen or played with. That may be true, but Brooks comes with a lot of baggage, and the thing Dallas and other teams must figure out is whether he's a bad guy or a guy who makes bad decisions. You can work with a guy who makes poor decisions. It's almost impossible to successfully work with a bad guy.

• • •

Q: Keith Davis and Rob Petitti were essentially rookies and had learning curves just like any other rookie. One season of experience could result in drastic improvement. Thoughts?

Eddie Arnold

TAYLOR: You make a good point. Davis needs to improve, but he's not the scrub some people think he is. It won't surprise me if he starts this year, although Pat Watkins and Marcus Coleman will get a long look. Petitti was serviceable last season when the Cowboys had Flozell Adams and could give Petitti help on most passing downs. He's physically better this year and he should be smarter, having spent an entire season in the system. Now, he just has to prove he can play at a consistently solid level. If he can, it makes Dallas a much better team.
__________________

[CowboyManDan]

I'm waiting until we see how training camp and preseason goes before I give up on Henson. I, and I know I'm not the only one, think he had a good NFLE season. It'll be interesting to see what the people who are against him do if Henson wins the 2nd string job.

But it's been clear to me ever since Parcells yanked him from the thanksgiving game that Parcells either doesn't see it in him...or that he's playing severe mind games with him (which Parcells likes to do to some players). But I don't think Parcells is a good judge of QBs. RBs, heck yes.

[Westcoasthabsfan]

I say Henson deserves to be number two on the depth chart

[ConcordCowboy]

Jean-Jacques Taylor: Henson project could be sacked

Drew Henson's days in Dallas are numbered. That might be a good thing.

During last week's minicamp, coach Bill Parcells said he wasn't that impressed with Henson's performance in NFL Europe. Tony Romo has clearly passed Henson on the depth chart, and as long as Parcells is the head coach – of course that might only be for one more season – then Henson isn't going to move on the depth chart.

If this is true and I don't see why anyone would see otherwise...This is why he's such a Nozzle!

Henson could be the Second coming of Aikman...But we'll never know because Parcells has already made up his mind and we all know he's never wrong.

[Alexander]

Henson could be the Second coming of Aikman...But we'll never know because Parcells has already made up his mind and we all know he's never wrong.

Be honest.

Do you really believe this?

[ConcordCowboy]

Be honest.

Do you really believe this?

No...But we'll never even know if he's the next coming of Danny White as long as MR Nozzle is here.

[theogt]

I remember in the past when I would read articles like this I would actually put a lot of weight in them. I would always assume these guys knew what was going on. Then I started actually listening to the press conferences and all the news myself and realized that these guys are just using guess-work interpretations based off cryptic language by BP.

[silver]

The Henson-Romo battle for second stringer sure makes a nice story. But, as long as the Bledsoe-Parcells combo is here, neither one will smell the field. One thing BP has is being consistent about who starts at QB. QC started all of 2003, VT started all but one game in 2004, DB started all of 2005 and will do so if he's healthy (or semi) in 2006. So please don't complain if you don't see Romo play at all this year because he won't.

[Mr Cowboy]

JJT doesn't see the mind games...................

[theebs]

Q: In my opinion, Kevin Burnett really needs to become a big contributor this season in order for us to get better. What have you seen or heard that would allow you to have an opinion on his progress?

William Carrick, New Hartford, N.Y.

Wow New hartford ny!!!! Small world I am from Utica, NY grew up 2 minutes from new hartford and will be back in two weeks to visit!!

[bbgun]

Third round pick down the drain. In Drew's defense, he shouldn't have to learn how Bill feels about him through the press. That's low.

[Hiero]

Was once a Henson fan, but its just another wacky experiment that isnt gonna work. It's time we move on to a real QB and stop trying to find baseball players.

[Alexander]

Third round pick down the drain. In Drew's defense, he shouldn't have to learn how Bill feels about him through the press. That's low.

And for all you know, Henson isn't learning this way.

[ConcordCowboy]

And for all you know, Henson isn't learning this way.

Well from Henson's reaction it sure seemed like he was.

[silver]

Third round pick down the drain. In Drew's defense, he shouldn't have to learn how Bill feels about him through the press. That's low.
all he has to do is beat Mroz for 3rd stringer so is not a wasted pick as of yet. i find it funny how people complain about spending a 3rd on henson and yet don't mention others like peterman and rogers who are complete busts.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

JJT has no idea what conversations Parcells has had or not had with Henson.

And how they go from what Parcells actually said and what they say he is saying is laughable.

Both guys will get an oppurtunity to play in the preseason but it all boils down to Bledsoe starting.

[CrazyCowboy]

Nice post.....thx

[jsd27]

I'm waiting until we see how training camp and preseason goes before I give up on Henson. I, and I know I'm not the only one, think he had a good NFLE season. It'll be interesting to see what the people who are against him do if Henson wins the 2nd string job.

But it's been clear to me ever since Parcells yanked him from the thanksgiving game that Parcells either doesn't see it in him...or that he's playing severe mind games with him (which Parcells likes to do to some players). But I don't think Parcells is a good judge of QBs. RBs, heck yes.


I agree. Yes, Parcells overall is a great coach but he has his flaws for sure. To me coaching is taking a kid that has tools and really investing everything you have in him so that he succeeds. I don't see that mentality with Parcells. I think he wants to put his team together, win, and get out. He has no real sincere interest in projects. That's not good for a guy like Henson and I think Henson has to be a little disappointed in the support of his head coach. I thought he played well enough in NFLE to garner a few more positive comments than Parcells gave - especially because he's stayed positive, respectful, tried hard, stayed out of trouble, showed up to meetings on time and has been the ideal team mate. Maybe he will never be a great 1st string QB but backups are very important in this league. Only when Bledsoe and Romo go down, will Parcells kick himself in the for not boosting Henson's confidence a bit more. But like him not addressing RT last offseason when everyone thought he should, he will only think of that when it's too late.

[big dog cowboy]

TAYLOR: It would've made more sense for owner Jerry Jones to spend another $500,000 or $700,000 to sign Adam Vinatieri.
Maybe he didn't want to be a Cowboy???

[big dog cowboy]

Q: In my opinion, Kevin Burnett really needs to become a big contributor this season in order for us to get better. What have you seen or heard that would allow you to have an opinion on his progress?

William Carrick, New Hartford, N.Y.
And what is this guy thinking? I think we all don't expect much and whatever we do get is just a bonus.

[InmanRoshi]

This time last year, Henson and Romo were on equal footing. If Romo has worked his way up through the organization and Henson's worked his way off, that has nothing to do with Parcells. This slow decision making reputation has been around since the Brady vs. Henson wars at Michigan. I thought Henson had a NICE campaign in NFLE. Not horrible, by any means. Not terrrific either. I didn't want to see his supposed cannon for an arm ... I already knew he had it. I wanted to see him effortlessly move his football team. I wanted things to look like they were coming easy for him. I wanted it to seem like he could just pick a team apart all day at this level. I wanted to see an effortlessness to his game. I never saw it. Everything looked hard. Everything looked labored. It was five minutes of ugly football interspersed with the occasional beautiful pass. Quite frankly, I don't care how many years they had been out of football, you give Troy Aikman or John Elway (and the self proclaimed QB-elitists say we shouldn't settle for anything less) two years in an NFL organization and turn them loose on the NFLE and it would be nothing short of "These guys have absolutely no business being in this league. Its a joke.'

On a side note, after being on the fence, I'm now officially against the Cowboys using a 1st day pick on Ahmad Brooks. No doubt he was a phenom at one point his young life, but like Mike Williams I think this is a guy who may have peaked at 19. As the saying goes players don't get smaller as they get older they, only get bigger. If he's at 275 at 21, he'll be 290-300 by the time he's 24. 310 by the time he's 27. He has a genetic bodytype that is going to require constant maintainence, and he hasn't exactly proven himself to be the shining beacon of self discipline.

[Alexander]

I wanted to see him effortlessly move his football team. I wanted things to look like they were coming easy for him. I wanted it to seem like he could just pick a team apart all day at this level. I wanted to see an effortlessness to his game. I never saw it. Everything looked hard. Everything looked labored. It was five minutes of ugly football interspersed with the occasional beautiful pass.

In fairness to Hutchinson, I mean, Henson, it is tough to do that in Europe. The quality of player is bad and it gets worse when you are dealing with backups, which he was. You have to give that handicap, at least.

On a side note, after being on the fence, I'm now officially against the Cowboys using a 1st day pick on Ahmad Brooks. No doubt he was a phenom at one point his young life, but I think this is a guy who may have peaked at 19. As the saying goes, players don't get smaller as they get older they only get bigger. If he's at 275 at twentyone, he'll be 290-300 by the time he's 24. 310 by the time he's 27. He hasn't exactly proven himself to be the shining beacon of self discipline to keep his weight down either.

I tend to agree, but we will know what to do about Brooks when the time comes and if the opportunity presents itself. We probably already know what we should do in that case. If I had to bet, I don't think we would bother.

[InmanRoshi]

In fairness to Hutchinson, I mean, Henson, it is tough to do that in Europe. The quality of player is bad and it gets worse when you are dealing with backups, which he was. You have to give that handicap, at least.


Dave Ragone and Rohan Davey went to Europe as the "Drew Henson" of NFLE their respective years ... mid-round draft picks who had more NFL "pedigree' and name than the rest of their peers. They both dominated the league and won the MVP award easily. It was clear they were just on another level than everyone else in the league at the position.

Obviously, that doesn't predict NFL success in either case, but it just goes to show that cream can and does rise to the top in that league. However meager that may be.

[Hoov]

i dont understand all the complaining about henson or romo not seeing the field. Neither one of them is anywhere near the level that bledsoe is at. Just because a guy is younger does not mean he is or will be better.

i would say it would take either of them 3 years at least of being a starter to be able to play at bledsoe's level, and that is IF they have the ability, experience counts for a lot at the QB position in the NFL. I dont want to spend 2 years finding out if either has what it takes and find out maybe they dont, when bledsoe is here now and can play well enough to win it all if other players take care of their job.

[bbgun]

It's clear that Henson is the redheaded step-child in Bill's "family." Only Jer can save him from being cut. Maybe.

[Hoov]

It's clear that Henson is the readheaded step-child in Bill's "family." Only Jer can save him from being cut. Maybe.

people that are observing camp say that romo is playing better than henson, i think gil brant recently made that observation, i may be wrong on that but i seem to remember him commenting. and others say the same.

so why are poeple acting like Bill just doesnt want to play the young superstar because its personal. it seems he is not that good and that is why he is not playing.

[InmanRoshi]

Can Henson pleae DO SOMETHING before we throw out the red-headed stepchild line?

[Alexander]

Dave Ragone and Rohan Davey went to Europe as the "Drew Henson" of NFLE their respective years ... mid-round draft picks who had more NFL "pedigree' and name than the rest of their peers. They both dominated the league and won the MVP award easily. It was clear they were just on another level than everyone else in the league at the position.

Obviously, that doesn't predict NFL success in either case, but it just goes to show that cream can and does rise to the top in that league. However meager that may be.

I never followed either player in Europe, but I think they never had to cope with how depleted Henson's supporting cast was.

[Alexander]

so why are poeple acting like Bill just doesnt want to play the young superstar because its personal. it seems he is not that good and that is why he is not playing.

Even Jean-Jacques Taylor said that line. When he notices it, it must be pretty obvious.

[InmanRoshi]

I never followed either player in Europe, but I think they never had to cope with how depleted Henson's supporting cast was.

Yeah, but Drew wasn't exactly tearing it up before the injuries to his WR's either. The first game of the season with a full staff it was just horrendous football. At no point in the season did I think he was the best QB in the league, that would be Gibran Hamdan ... who probably won't even make Seattle's roster. He looked just marginally better than Timmy Chang working with the same exact cast (another player who won't make an NFL roster next year).

Again, there is just nothing that looks effortless with him. Its never fluid, smooth sailing. Everything is a labored, uphill sprint with arms and legs wildly flailing. The ball may look pretty once its in the air, but everything leading up to that point is ugly.

[The Answer]

This time last year, Henson and Romo were on equal footing. If Romo has worked his way up through the organization and Henson's worked his way off, that has nothing to do with Parcells. This slow decision making reputation has been around since the Brady vs. Henson wars at Michigan. I thought Henson had a NICE campaign in NFLE. Not horrible, by any means. Not terrrific either. I didn't want to see his supposed cannon for an arm ... I already knew he had it. I wanted to see him effortlessly move his football team. I wanted things to look like they were coming easy for him. I wanted it to seem like he could just pick a team apart all day at this level. I wanted to see an effortlessness to his game. I never saw it. Everything looked hard. Everything looked labored. It was five minutes of ugly football interspersed with the occasional beautiful pass. Quite frankly, I don't care how many years they had been out of football, you give Troy Aikman or John Elway (and the self proclaimed QB-elitists say we shouldn't settle for anything less) two years in an NFL organization and turn them loose on the NFLE and it would be nothing short of "These guys have absolutely no business being in this league. Its a joke.'

On a side note, after being on the fence, I'm now officially against the Cowboys using a 1st day pick on Ahmad Brooks. No doubt he was a phenom at one point his young life, but like Mike Williams I think this is a guy who may have peaked at 19. As the saying goes players don't get smaller as they get older they, only get bigger. If he's at 275 at 21, he'll be 290-300 by the time he's 24. 310 by the time he's 27. He has a genetic bodytype that is going to require constant maintainence, and he hasn't exactly proven himself to be the shining beacon of self discipline.

You hit the nail on the head with the comments about Aikman and Elway....maybe Henson was touted as a 1st round pick at one point, but right now he's not even on the level of Tim Couch. He should have dominated the NFLE league, regardless of the talent level around him. He should have sent a message that the starting QB job in Dallas is up for grabs this summer. He didn't do any of that, he looked slighty above average at best in Europe.

The thing most of the Hensonite faithful fail to realize is that Parcells don't like Henson and favors Romo, maybe Henson just isn't a Parcells type of player for that matter either.....add the fact that Bledsoe is here for the immediate future, and it all adds up to a big no win situation for Henson.

The best thing this franchise can do for this kid right now is just cut him outright so he can sign with another team in time for training camp, learn their system, and have a chance to compete for a 2nd or 3rd string spot.

~The Answer

[JackMagist]

So Parcells makes one statement, "I would have liked to see just a little bit more." And now every mediot in the world is jumping to the same conclusion. There is certainly a possibility that they are right and that it does spell the end for Henson but I still see it as far from a definite condemnation by BP.

It is conveniently ignored that Parcells also said that Henson was well ahead of where he was this time last year, or that he said that the NFLE work was good for Henson, or that Henson is improved. Those statements don't carry near the weight of "I would have liked to see just a little bit more."

We all know that Parcells will almost never give praise to a QB; in fact I have never heard him praise a QB. There is always some negative that he throws in to qualify anything that he ways about any QB including his guys like Bledsoe or Testaverde.

I'm not going to really believe any of this until I see the results in training camp. Will Henson be on the team this year? I don't know, but then again neither do any of these mediots who are writing this crap. In fact this story is getting so old that I think I will just slip it into the same pigeon hole where I keep the TO and Ellis stories.

[iceberg]

i dont understand all the complaining about henson or romo not seeing the field. Neither one of them is anywhere near the level that bledsoe is at. Just because a guy is younger does not mean he is or will be better.

i would say it would take either of them 3 years at least of being a starter to be able to play at bledsoe's level, and that is IF they have the ability, experience counts for a lot at the QB position in the NFL. I dont want to spend 2 years finding out if either has what it takes and find out maybe they dont, when bledsoe is here now and can play well enough to win it all if other players take care of their job.

if experience counts, then we wasted 4 games of which we could have given these young qb's a shot. as for 3 years - they got it by now. if they can't play because bledsoe is "too good" then where will *anyone* get that experience and how will we ever know?

just seems like a catch 22 you just built.

[Alexander]

Yeah, but Drew wasn't exactly tearing it up before the injuries to his WR's either. The first game of the season with a full staff it was just horrendous football. At no point in the season did I think he was the best QB in the league, that would be Gibran Hamdan ... who probably won't even make Seattle's roster. He looked just marginally better than Timmy Chang working with the same exact cast (another player who won't make an NFL roster next year).

Again, there is just nothing that looks effortless with him. Its never fluid, smooth sailing. Everything is a labored, uphill sprint with arms and legs wildly flailing. The ball may look pretty once its in the air, but everything leading up to that point is ugly.

Doug Flutie was arms and legs everywhere. So was Kosar. Billy Kilmer was the worst looking QB I have ever seen.

The only thing that has ever worried me about Henson was his mental makeup.

I don't think his physical ability is much in doubt.

Mentally, he has yet to show he can handle the rigors of the NFL. He got out of baseball because he could handle the pressure. Now, the ball is in his court to see if he can handle football when it is just as pressure packed.

[The Answer]

JJT sums it up perfectly right here:

"The Cowboys like his game management and his arm, but the NFL is about decision-making, and they seem to think he doesn't do it well enough.

It's not that he throws a lot of interceptions. It's that he stares down receivers and doesn't process information quickly enough to consistently make the best read based on the play selection and the defensive coverage."

The Answer also drew this same conclusion when he wrote his thorough assessment of Henson that highlighted his strength and weaknesses.

The QB position is all about decision making and in the bigger picture arm strength, mobility, and natural athleticism have nothing to do with it.....

~The Answer

[silverbear]

JJT sums it up perfectly right here:

"The Cowboys like his game management and his arm, but the NFL is about decision-making, and they seem to think he doesn't do it well enough.

It's not that he throws a lot of interceptions. It's that he stares down receivers and doesn't process information quickly enough to consistently make the best read based on the play selection and the defensive coverage."

The Answer also drew this same conclusion when he wrote his thorough assessment of Henson that highlighted his strength and weaknesses.

The QB position is all about decision making and in the bigger picture arm strength, mobility, and natural athleticism have nothing to do with it.....

~The Answer

And how many of Henson's games in NFLE did the Answer actually watch??

Personally, I watched all of them but the last one, and I never saw this "staring down receivers" issue... I saw lots of him trying to find SOMEBODY who actually came open, lots of him running for his life as the pass protection failed, and lots of receivers dropping lots of well-thrown passes...

In fact, I found myself wondering exactly what it was that Parcells "didn't see", particularly since a week or so earlier, the coach admitted he hadn't watched much of NFL Europe this spring...

It was that statement that leads me to believe that his comments at minicamp were psychological motivation aimed at Henson...

[ConcordCowboy]

And how many of Henson's games in NFLE did the Answer actually watch??

Personally, I watched all of them but the last one, and I never saw this "staring down receivers" issue... I saw lots of him trying to find SOMEBODY who actually came open, lots of him running for his life as the pass protection failed, and lots of receivers dropping lots of well-thrown passes...

In fact, I found myself wondering exactly what it was that Parcells "didn't see", particularly since a week or so earlier, the coach admitted he hadn't watched much of NFL Europe this spring...
It was that statement that leads me to believe that his comments at minicamp were psychological motivation aimed at Henson...

Exactly...In Fact I can't believe that anyone who Actually watched all his games could come away with the Idea that He Hurt Himself at all... Let alone that he would now only a few weeks after be on the Bubble...There's just no way.

You're going to cut your 3rd string guy without giving him a chance in training camp after he just had his most extensive playing time in years.

[InmanRoshi]

Doug Flutie was arms and legs everywhere. So was Kosar. Billy Kilmer was the worst looking QB I have ever seen.

The only thing that has ever worried me about Henson was his mental makeup.

I don't think his physical ability is much in doubt.


I don't think its about physical or mental makeup. Just like Hutchinson, I think he has all the physical ability. And just like Hutchinson I think he's a smart, tough, likeable guy who works hard and does all the right things. I think its more on a gut-level instinct for the game. A natural feel. And unlike the names you mentioned above, I suspect Henson doesn't have it (just like Chad Hutchinson didn't have it). The position is more of an art than a science. People try to project the position by adding and weighing all the variables, but its not a linear equation. Which is why QB's selected in the first round tend to bust at over a 50% rate despite the fact that organizations go over them with a fine toothed comb for four months in the draft process. If all these first round draft picks failed because they were simply noodle arms or mental midgets, they wouldn't be drafted that high in the first place. Its more difficult to put your finger on than that.

[lspain1]

He got out of baseball because he could handle the pressure.


Alexander, I don't know if Henson is an NFL caliber QB or not, but your comment above is just silly. Hitting a major league curve ball has NOTHING to do with handling pressure. There have been a lot of folks through the years who could not make it in major league baseball because they could not hit the curve. Henson tried to do it for a number of years and could not get it done.

Hitting the curve ball may be the single hardest thing to do in all of sports. If he had success and screwed it up from immature decisions or something like that your point would be valid but he did not do that. You can fault Henson on not having QB skills but the baseball comment is simply incorrect.

[Hoov]

if experience counts, then we wasted 4 games of which we could have given these young qb's a shot. as for 3 years - they got it by now. if they can't play because bledsoe is "too good" then where will *anyone* get that experience and how will we ever know?

just seems like a catch 22 you just built.

well i guess that all depends on how you feel about bledsoe. i think bledsoe is a good QB, and quite frankly right now i dont think there are that many good QB's in the nfl. so why would you bench a good QB to see if one of the unproven guys on your team can some day turn into a good QB ? that makes no sense to me.

But if you think bledose sucks, and then you think gee not only does he suck but he is old too, then i could see a push to start a young guy. i just think bledose is a good QB.

But people want to see a franchise QB, someone good, young and with tons of potential who will lead the team for years.....but how many of those types come out of college every year 1 maybe 2, and there are 32 teams all wanting that. i think more and more we are going to see the journeyman type of QB like bledsoe, a guy that has experience and can play if he can fit into the right system.

Also, i watched carson palmer play 1 presseason game last yaer and said WOW, this kid has poise, he is a natural back there, he has something. Henson hasnt shown that in preseason so why do we think he will just all of a sudden find it by throwing him into the starters role ?

[BulletBob]

So Parcells makes one statement, "I would have liked to see just a little bit more." And now every mediot in the world is jumping to the same conclusion. There is certainly a possibility that they are right and that it does spell the end for Henson but I still see it as far from a definite condemnation by BP.

It is conveniently ignored that Parcells also said that Henson was well ahead of where he was this time last year, or that he said that the NFLE work was good for Henson, or that Henson is improved. Those statements don't carry near the weight of "I would have liked to see just a little bit more."

We all know that Parcells will almost never give praise to a QB; in fact I have never heard him praise a QB. There is always some negative that he throws in to qualify anything that he ways about any QB including his guys like Bledsoe or Testaverde.

I'm not going to really believe any of this until I see the results in training camp. Will Henson be on the team this year? I don't know, but then again neither do any of these mediots who are writing this crap. In fact this story is getting so old that I think I will just slip it into the same pigeon hole where I keep the TO and Ellis stories.

:hammer:

This is a brilliant, insightful post, Jack.

While I do subscribe to the theory that Tuna does have something personal against Henson, your post certainly puts his comments into very sharp perspective.

Kudos!

[Alexander]

Alexander, I don't know if Henson is an NFL caliber QB or not, but your comment above is just silly. Hitting a major league curve ball has NOTHING to do with handling pressure. There have been a lot of folks through the years who could not make it in major league baseball because they could not hit the curve. Henson tried to do it for a number of years and could not get it done.

Hitting the curve ball may be the single hardest thing to do in all of sports. If he had success and screwed it up from immature decisions or something like that your point would be valid but he did not do that. You can fault Henson on not having QB skills but the baseball comment is simply incorrect.

What does hitting a curve ball have to do with it? Baseball is also a mental game and any athlete in any professional competitive sport has to be mentally tough. And I don't think it's out of bounds to assume he got frustrated because he wasn't doing well and fell back into football.

I just suspect that he might be weaker in that regard than anyone thought. He looked fragile in his rookie year and while he showed good leadership skills in NFLE, is that enough?

I know it's still early to jump on him because the word is out he is slipping, and that's not really my intent. But it's getting harder each day to keep faith in him when everything you hear (and not just the mediots) indicates he is clearly the third horse, is floundering in comparison to his competition and shows no signs of moving upward.

This is his third year. He has to make a move soon or he will end up just like Hutchinson, who is another player I thought struggled with the mental, not physical portion.

[lspain1]

What does hitting a curve ball have to do with it? Baseball is also a mental game and any athlete in any professional competitive sport has to be mentally tough. And I don't think it's out of bounds to assume he got frustrated because he wasn't doing well and fell back into football.

I just suspect that he might be weaker in that regard than anyone thought. He looked fragile in his rookie year and while he showed good leadership skills in NFLE, is that enough?

I know it's still early to jump on him because the word is out he is slipping, and that's not really my intent. But it's getting harder each day to keep faith in him when everything you hear (and not just the mediots) indicates he is clearly the third horse, is floundering in comparison to his competition and shows no signs of moving upward.

This is his third year. He has to make a move soon or he will end up just like Hutchinson, who is another player I thought struggled with the mental, not physical portion.

My point was that Henson left baseball because he could not hit the curve ball. He wasn't wilting under pressure. He did not have success and felt that he was not performing to the level necessary to succeed. He left a lot of money on the table when he left. I don't know about you but IMO, leaving that money and making the decision to start over in football strikes me as mature and mentally tough.

You were making a point that he left baseball because he could not handle pressure. I believe that point was incorrect.

[Doomsday101]

My point was that Henson left baseball because he could not hit the curve ball. He wasn't wilting under pressure. He did not have success and felt that he was not performing to the level necessary to succeed. He left a lot of money on the table when he left. I don't know about you but IMO, leaving that money and making the decision to start over in football strikes me as mature and mentally tough.

You were making a point that he left baseball because he could not handle pressure. I believe that point was incorrect.

I agree. Many guys who try to make it in MLB struggle with off speed pitches and wicked breaking pitches. This has nothing to do with wilting under pressure

[acheman]

It was that statement that leads me to believe that his comments at minicamp were psychological motivation aimed at Henson...


Silver Bear I have always liked your rationale and most of your posts, but if we all think about it, why would Parcells feel the need to "psychologically motivate" Henson if he felt he had seen enough? I am not disagreeing with your point of view, yours just happens to be the most recent post I have seen with this theory. I am not saying I do not subscribe to that theory myself, but what I am saying is if Parcells truly was satisfied with Henson why would he feel the need to play mind games with him to get even more out of him? I realize Bill is stingy with the compliments, and he would not want Henson to think he had "arrived" if Bill had showered him with praise, but I can't help but feel deep down he isn't playing mind games he is just stating what he truly thinks. And I am not happy about it believe me. I have pulled for Henson since we made the trade, but the writing may be on the wall.

[SultanOfSix]

It was that statement that leads me to believe that his comments at minicamp were psychological motivation aimed at Henson...


Silver Bear I have always liked your rationale and most of your posts, but if we all think about it, why would Parcells feel the need to "psychologically motivate" Henson if he felt he had seen enough?

The fact that he couldn't even pinpoint exactly what he wanted to see "more of." Kind of vague, don't you think?

[JackMagist]

It was that statement that leads me to believe that his comments at minicamp were psychological motivation aimed at Henson...


Silver Bear I have always liked your rationale and most of your posts, but if we all think about it, why would Parcells feel the need to "psychologically motivate" Henson if he felt he had seen enough? I am not disagreeing with your point of view, yours just happens to be the most recent post I have seen with this theory. I am not saying I do not subscribe to that theory myself, but what I am saying is if Parcells truly was satisfied with Henson why would he feel the need to play mind games with him to get even more out of him? I realize Bill is stingy with the compliments, and he would not want Henson to think he had "arrived" if Bill had showered him with praise, but I can't help but feel deep down he isn't playing mind games he is just stating what he truly thinks. And I am not happy about it believe me. I have pulled for Henson since we made the trade, but the writing may be on the wall.Did you ever hear Phil Simms talk about Parcells? He tells a story about coming off of what he felt was one of the best games of his career and feeling really good about how things were going only to have Parcells tear him down. It is just how Parcells works; expecially with QBs.

[lspain1]

The fact that he couldn't even pinpoint exactly what he wanted to see "more of." Kind of vague, don't you think?

I agree. It was the whole lack of specificity in the criticism that lead me to believe Parcells was putting pressure on Henson. It left me with a 'mind game' impression.

I also have to agree with the question..."Why would he do that?" If anything, I would expect Parcells to be putting pressure on Romo if he believes he is the better candidate. Clearly Romo was better last season, so mind games don't make a lot of sense to me...but I'm not Bill Parcells.

[Doomsday101]

Did you ever hear Phil Simms talk about Parcells? He tells a story about coming off of what he felt was one of the best games of his career and feeling really good about how things were going only to have Parcells tear him down. It is just how Parcells works; expecially with QBs.

I have heard Simms say that many times. It is hard to know what Bill really thinks and I have yet to see any one predict what Bill will do with any real accuracy. All Henson can do is to continue to work and make the most of any opportunities that come his way.

[JackMagist]

I agree. It was the whole lack of specificity in the criticism that lead me to believe Parcells was putting pressure on Henson. It left me with a 'mind game' impression.

I also have to agree with the question..."Why would he do that?" If anything, I would expect Parcells to be putting pressure on Romo if he believes he is the better candidate. Clearly Romo was better last season, so mind games don't make a lot of sense to me...but I'm not Bill Parcells.Parcells did make a comment about Romo needing to prove something in TC this year. HE said that he needed to prove that he can be counted on if called to play in the regular season. There is some inherent pressure in that statement alone. Plus we have no idea what Parcells is saying to either of these guys privately or on the practice field or in the locker room. Just because we do hear it in public doesn't mean he isn't playing mind games with both of them...and maybe Bledsoe too.

[AbeBeta]

Bill is giving Drew a real test here. Why? Because Bill is a with QBs. Henson though has Bledsoe and Palmer to help interpret. Too bad JJT doesn't have the same luxury.

[ravidubey]

Drew Henson makes plays but stares down his receiver too much to be a starting QB.

I don't know a thing about Tony Romo.

[RCowboyFan]

Drew Henson makes plays but stares down his receiver too much to be a starting QB.

I don't know a thing about Tony Romo.

He got Moxie :D

[SultanOfSix]

He got Moxie :D

How do we know "moxie" isn't a bad thing? Like, say "athlete's foot".

[AbeBeta]

Drew Henson makes plays but stares down his receiver too much to be a starting QB.


I think that you could say that about most inexperienced backups in the league though

[iceberg]

well i guess that all depends on how you feel about bledsoe. i think bledsoe is a good QB, and quite frankly right now i dont think there are that many good QB's in the nfl. so why would you bench a good QB to see if one of the unproven guys on your team can some day turn into a good QB ? that makes no sense to me.

But if you think bledose sucks, and then you think gee not only does he suck but he is old too, then i could see a push to start a young guy. i just think bledose is a good QB.

But people want to see a franchise QB, someone good, young and with tons of potential who will lead the team for years.....but how many of those types come out of college every year 1 maybe 2, and there are 32 teams all wanting that. i think more and more we are going to see the journeyman type of QB like bledsoe, a guy that has experience and can play if he can fit into the right system.

Also, i watched carson palmer play 1 presseason game last yaer and said WOW, this kid has poise, he is a natural back there, he has something. Henson hasnt shown that in preseason so why do we think he will just all of a sudden find it by throwing him into the starters role ?

3 of those 4 games were with vinnie t and we pretty much knew he'd not be back the next year if bledsoe came around. what were we losing then?

nothing except valid observation experience.

[iceberg]

Drew Henson makes plays but stares down his receiver too much to be a starting QB.

I don't know a thing about Tony Romo.

i watched almost every game of NFLE - if not live, tivo'd.

i call bullshyte on this new found "stares down receivers" comment that seems to be coming in out of the blue.

[Jarv]

3 of those 4 games were with vinnie t and we pretty much knew he'd not be back the next year if bledsoe came around. what were we losing then?

nothing except valid observation experience.

I agree 100% Ice, one of his worst decision I have ever seen.

[iceberg]

I agree 100% Ice, one of his worst decision I have ever seen.

i think we could have found out in those 3 games what type of a player henson could be - even romo if you wanted to play him. but NOT playing these qb's WHEN you have an opportunity and hiding behind "best chance to win" when there's nothing left to win is just nuts.

so here we sit 2 years later with 0 on romo and 1/2 a game on henson and NFLE henson asked to go to and we're still mired in stupid 3rd string qb debates.

[wileedog]

i think we could have found out in those 3 games what type of a player henson could be - even romo if you wanted to play him. but NOT playing these qb's WHEN you have an opportunity and hiding behind "best chance to win" when there's nothing left to win is just nuts.


All we would have learned is how well either one of them takes a hit.

[Jarv]

i think we could have found out in those 3 games what type of a player henson could be - even romo if you wanted to play him. but NOT playing these qb's WHEN you have an opportunity and hiding behind "best chance to win" when there's nothing left to win is just nuts.

so here we sit 2 years later with 0 on romo and 1/2 a game on henson and NFLE henson asked to go to and we're still mired in stupid 3rd string qb debates.

I wonder if BP has a 3 year old car he's never driven because he doesn't know how it will handle ?

[RCowboyFan]

i watched almost every game of NFLE - if not live, tivo'd.

i call bullshyte on this new found "stares down receivers" comment that seems to be coming in out of the blue.

Yeah, I know, I just give up on that statement or argue about it, since its way too subjective, unless Camera shows QB's eyes before he throws or when he is scanning the field. But as far as I watched, he sure doesn't stare at the reciever he is throwing, if not he would have had more Ints than he has had for sure. His helmet might be pointing towards where he is throwing, but doesn't mean, there weren't 2-3 options in that direction. And there were, when I watched or managed to watch him only go in one direction.

[Alexander]

I wonder if BP has a 3 year old car he's never driven because he doesn't know how it will handle ?

What if he got one off the scrapheap and was hesistant to take it for a spin on a busy highway before he got it tuned up?

[Jarv]

What if he got one off the scrapheap and was hesistant to take it for a spin on a busy highway before he got it tuned up?

Whats a scrapheap ?

[Alexander]

Whats a scrapheap ?

A place where you would find a junked out car and try and restore it. Let's just say Henson is a reclamation project. Because honestly, he is after that type of layoff and his inexperience.

[Jarv]

A place where you would find a junked out car and try and restore it. Let's just say Henson is a reclamation project. Because honestly, he is after that type of layoff and his inexperience.

Aw...gotcha...Junk yards up here in the NE.

Junkers are like the Div II college kids drive while Guys making millions at the Yankees bought new cars...

:rolleyes:

[SultanOfSix]

What if he got one off the scrapheap and was hesistant to take it for a spin on a busy highway before he got it tuned up?

I wouldn't call technically a 3rd round pick as taken off the scrap heap.

[iceberg]

I wouldn't call technically a 3rd round pick as taken off the scrap heap.

it's ok for some people ot hate, it seems. : ) yet someone else does it to *their own* chosen one it's quite the party foul.

[wileedog]

I wouldn't call technically a 3rd round pick as taken off the scrap heap.

Its not what you paid for the car that matters, its how much rust is on it.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Its not what you paid for the car that matters, its how much rust is on it.


On the other hand, there's an old saying, "You get what you pay for."

[iceberg]

Its not what you paid for the car that matters, its how much rust is on it.

i'm gonna go ahead and nominate this as the stupidest analogy of the year so far.

if the car has "rust" then don't buy it.
if it's on the "scrapheap" don't pay millions for it
if you don't wanna drive it, don't buy it

good god the offseason forces some strange stuff out.

[5Stars]

Its not what you paid for the car that matters, its how much rust is on it.

Well, this car is looking like it needs a serious realignnment, oil change, new tires, a good tune-up, a paint job, and new brakes...!

I think it's one of them "flooded cars" that came from New Orleans! :eek:

:star:

[Hoov]

3 of those 4 games were with vinnie t and we pretty much knew he'd not be back the next year if bledsoe came around. what were we losing then?

nothing except valid observation experience.

actually in that circumstance i agree with you.

first Vinnie was not going to lead us anywhere, second the overall team was not near good enough to compete with the good teams that year.

so, as far as why parcells did not pull the trigger there, i dont have any answer or defense, if we asked him directly i bet he would say it wasnt in henson's best intrest to throw him to the wolves and that it might hurt his development down the line.

but i think it would have been a good spot to see what the kid has, though maybe parcells saw enough of him in practice to already make the judgement and did not need to see him in a game to find out what he already beleived, that henson wasnt ready. i cant answer for that, i did think it starnge that he didnt play him at that time though.

[wileedog]

i'm gonna go ahead and nominate this as the stupidest analogy of the year so far.

if the car has "rust" then don't buy it.
if it's on the "scrapheap" don't pay millions for it
if you don't wanna drive it, don't buy it

good god the offseason forces some strange stuff out.

- Rust can be removed.

- Millions is a relative term. It costs many more millions to draft a QB in the first round than pick up Henson on the cheap. That's why Jerry was shopping in the junk yard in the first place.

- I don't want to drive it until I'm sure the brakes work, the engine performs properly, etc. If it needs more work, I'm certainly not going to take it on the road and crash it into a tree when the brakes fail.


This criticism over Henson not playing a couple of games in 2004 is beyond ludicrous. What exactly would you know about him now? Do you really evaluate a guy 3 years out of the game based on a couple of meaningless quarters to end the season?

Oh yea, this is the internet. That's exactly what everyone does.

[wileedog]

abut i think it would have been a good spot to see what the kid has, though maybe parcells saw enough of him in practice to already make the judgement and did not need to see him in a game to find out what he already beleived, that henson wasnt ready. i cant answer for that, i did think it starnge that he didnt play him at that time though.

I think you answered your own question.

[AbeBeta]

I love it when folks argue with analogies

[5Stars]

- Rust can be removed.

- Millions is a relative term. It costs many more millions to draft a QB in the first round than pick up Henson on the cheap. That's why Jerry was shopping in the junk yard in the first place.

- I don't want to drive it until I'm sure the brakes work, the engine performs properly, etc. If it needs more work, I'm certainly not going to take it on the road and crash it into a tree when the brakes fail.


This criticism over Henson not playing a couple of games in 2004 is beyond ludicrous. What exactly would you know about him now? Do you really evaluate a guy 3 years out of the game based on a couple of meaningless quarters to end the season?

Oh yea, this is the internet. That's exactly what everyone does.

The Iceberg poster does not like the Boyz Oline...he says it stinks and is the weak link, nothing was done to fix it...

And, he wants Henson to play behind it...:eek:

:star:

[iceberg]

- Rust can be removed.

- Millions is a relative term. It costs many more millions to draft a QB in the first round than pick up Henson on the cheap. That's why Jerry was shopping in the junk yard in the first place.

- I don't want to drive it until I'm sure the brakes work, the engine performs properly, etc. If it needs more work, I'm certainly not going to take it on the road and crash it into a tree when the brakes fail.


This criticism over Henson not playing a couple of games in 2004 is beyond ludicrous. What exactly would you know about him now? Do you really evaluate a guy 3 years out of the game based on a couple of meaningless quarters to end the season?

Oh yea, this is the internet. That's exactly what everyone does.

good to see you're refraiing from the babble.

hoov - fair enough. i have no answer either and can point to those games when parcells and i were just on two different ends and i've not cared for him ever since. romo or henson shoulda got some time - parcells hung by "his" boys and that's guided my opinion of him, fair or not, ever since.

[iceberg]

The Iceberg poster does not like the Boyz Oline...he says it stinks and is the weak link, nothing was done to fix it...

And, he wants Henson to play behind it...:eek:

:star:

he played behind worse in NFLE and showed some mobility.

that aside - just keep in mind *I* didn't make the OL complaint this time. : )

[InmanRoshi]

What exactly would you know about him now?

We know he's marginally better than Timmy Chang and marginally worse than Tony Romo.

[5Stars]

he played behind worse in NFLE and showed some mobility.

that aside - just keep in mind *I* didn't make the OL complaint this time. : )

I just thought I would sneak up behind you and yell, "BOO"!

Carry on....

:star:

[Bob Sacamano]

I haven't seen one quote from Parcells backing JJT's reasoning, such as the part about him lacking decision-making, did anything in Parcells' speech about Henson did he even hit that he was lacking in that department?

Parcells has already made up his mind, yeah, ok

[iceberg]

Hung by his boys?

Jumpin jehosaphat on a pogo stick. We were still alive for the playoffs, regardless of how slight that wondow was, until the Saints game! Parcells should have just told the players, who dedicated countless hours to the season "Well, it's over. Not mathematically over, of course - but I know you scrubs don't have what it takes."???????

Yeah. I could have gotten behind THAT.

super - calm down for a bit and go back (2) years ago w/me when vinnie T was our qb. the last 3 games of the season were meaningless - we were out of the playoffs and we knew vinnie was NOT our long term answer.

this is the birth of "the best chance to win".

win what? another game? three at the most? at what cost?

2 years later henson OR romo still has no real NFL experience to guide us in their abilities.

[5Stars]

Hung by his boys?

Jumpin jehosaphat on a pogo stick. We were still alive for the playoffs, regardless of how slight that wondow was, until the Saints game! Parcells should have just told the players, who dedicated countless hours to the season "Well, it's over. Not mathematically over, of course - but I know you scrubs don't have what it takes."???????

Yeah. I could have gotten behind THAT.

This is what I think alot of people forget...all the other members of that football team worked as hard as they could to get where they were, yet, you have some that want to put ONE inexperienced player above all of that...just so they could "see"? :eek:

Makes no sense to me...that is why I understand why Parcells did not want to give playing time to the kiddys...

:star:

[superpunk]

super - calm down for a bit and go back (2) years ago w/me when vinnie T was our qb. the last 3 games of the season were meaningless - we were out of the playoffs and we knew vinnie was NOT our long term answer.

this is the birth of "the best chance to win".

win what? another game? three at the most? at what cost?

2 years later henson OR romo still has no real NFL experience to guide us in their abilities.

NVM. I misread something you had written earlier. Sorry, I deleted my post.

I do however, not agree with the "game experience" deal. The coaches have a pretty good idea what these players can do, and some meaningless snaps in games where the defenses can tee off on the QB aren't going to make the difference between success and failure. It's a pointless excercise.

[Bob Sacamano]

and just as easily as JJT wrote this article, I could easily say that since Parcells noticed his good TD to INT ratio, that Henson is just the kind of QB Parcells loves, one that limits turnovers

see how easy that is? reading between the lines is fun!

[Bob Sacamano]

2 years later henson OR romo still has no real NFL experience to guide us in their abilities.

and 3 games, or even 8, is really going to make that big of an impact on them :rolleyes:

the only number of games I see having a great impact on a young QB is 16, at least...

[5Stars]

and 3 games, or even 8, is really going to make that big of an impact on them :rolleyes:

the only number of games I see having a great impact on a young QB is 16, at least...

The ultimate goal is to "win" the game...that's what players work so hard for, even if it's just 1 game! The regular season is not the time to put some floundering kid out there to try and learn how to play...the team plays to win, period!

Hell, look at the Redstinks...they finally won a few games last year, and look at them now! They think they are the " of the walk"! :lmao:

[REDVOLUTION]

I'm waiting until we see how training camp and preseason goes before I give up on Henson. I, and I know I'm not the only one, think he had a good NFLE season.

I agree with you. To use one of Campo's lines "I saw some good things out there from him" in NFLE

[Jarv]

We know he's marginally better than Timmy Chang and marginally worse than Tony Romo.

Amazing that you would know Romo is better when he never even played in a real game (or a full 4 quarters) in close to 4 years.

Timmy Chang (QB, Rhein) - 50/89 56% for 659 yards, 4 TD, 3 INT

D.Henson, (QB,Rhein) 109/203 54% for 1,321 Yards 10 TD, 3 INT

I would say the Henson was more than marginally better than Chang, but to each their own.

[Chocolate Lab]

In fact, I found myself wondering exactly what it was that Parcells "didn't see", particularly since a week or so earlier, the coach admitted he hadn't watched much of NFL Europe this spring... That statement was as revealing as anything. Didn't Parcells say at the rookie minicamp, when asked about Henson in NFLE, that he'd watched, "All but a couple" of his games? At a time when only been four or five games had even been played?

If Parcells doesn't even bother to watch the guy play, in the offseason when he has plenty of time...

[REDVOLUTION]

He(Henson) should have dominated the NFLE league, regardless of the talent level around him.

That makes NO SENSE! NONE! Wrong Answer.

[wileedog]

That statement was as revealing as anything. Didn't Parcells say at the rookie minicamp, when asked about Henson in NFLE, that he'd watched, "All but a couple" of his games? At a time when only been four or five games had even been played?

If Parcells doesn't even bother to watch the guy play, in the offseason when he has plenty of time...

Uh, they tape the games. Maybe he'd rather just sit down and evaluate them all at once after the season?

[acheman]

Actually all but the last one or two NFLE games had been played at the point Parcells made those comments, as it was the week after the draft.

[CowboyManDan]

and just as easily as JJT wrote this article, I could easily say that since Parcells noticed his good TD to INT ratio, that Henson is just the kind of QB Parcells loves, one that limits turnovers

see how easy that is? reading between the lines is fun!

Good point.
The mediots should wait till we see how he does in training camp and preseason games.

[iceberg]

NVM. I misread something you had written earlier. Sorry, I deleted my post.

I do however, not agree with the "game experience" deal. The coaches have a pretty good idea what these players can do, and some meaningless snaps in games where the defenses can tee off on the QB aren't going to make the difference between success and failure. It's a pointless excercise.

i understand and respect not agreeing - it just gets crazy when one side tries to prove right or wrong by the end of it. : )

i don't think NFL snaps are meaningless. i don't think letting a player play is meaningless to find out what they can do over the long haul, or at least get a better idea during "real" time, not just practice. i used to watch practices - it's like slow motion on shrooms - and i also feel people can play differently in a "game" vs a practice as well.

so i also disagree it's pointless.

as for other players suffering while the business gathers info for the business, they can console themselves in their nice car and home - it is a business, right? shouldn't these players be on board with long term moves if it's designed to make it better for all? this is trying to please everyone (this line of thinking) and as a business you can't do that. besides, i've never seen a player mad that the coach/owner used a meaningless game as talent evaluation. if it's there, link me. : )

[5Stars]

- it's like slow motion on shrooms -

Holy @*%$, now I think I understand your posts better, now that you have revealed this little tidbit of info!

Carry on...

:lmao:

[iceberg]

and 3 games, or even 8, is really going to make that big of an impact on them :rolleyes:

the only number of games I see having a great impact on a young QB is 16, at least...

but if you won't give them 2-3 when there's no "cost" to the franchise, when will you give them that 16?

[RCowboyFan]

i understand and respect not agreeing - it just gets crazy when one side tries to prove right or wrong by the end of it. : )

i don't think NFL snaps are meaningless. i don't think letting a player play is meaningless to find out what they can do over the long haul, or at least get a better idea during "real" time, not just practice. i used to watch practices - it's like slow motion on shrooms - and i also feel people can play differently in a "game" vs a practice as well.

so i also disagree it's pointless.

as for other players suffering while the business gathers info for the business, they can console themselves in their nice car and home - it is a business, right? shouldn't these players be on board with long term moves if it's designed to make it better for all? this is trying to please everyone (this line of thinking) and as a business you can't do that. besides, i've never seen a player mad that the coach/owner used a meaningless game as talent evaluation. if it's there, link me. : )

I can attest to that myself. I never played football but other games I played, for college etc., its one thing in practice but when it was game time, nervousness/pressure etc. played a big part on performance, negative or positive. I am pretty sure, quite a few people on this board, who might have played, might agree to that.

There are very few people that I knew of personally, who played the same pace or way, they did in practice and real game time.

[Hoov]

Holy @*%$, now I think I understand your posts better, now that you have revealed this little tidbit of info!

Carry on...

:lmao:

dont knock the shrooms man, i never had a bad day on shrooms. :) :)

[Jarv]

dont knock the shrooms man, i never had a bad day on shrooms. :) :)

How about the next day...How was that !

[Bigdog24]

Good point.
The mediots should wait till we see how he does in training camp and preseason games.


Exactly, I wonder how Romo would of done if he went to the NFLE,

But I really thinkl this Parcells way of playing mind games with Henson...checking to see if he got what it takes, Do you remember all the BS that Phil Simms took when Parcels caoched the giants..

[Doomsday101]

Exactly, I wonder how Romo would of done if he went to the NFLE,

But I really thinkl this Parcells way of playing mind games with Henson...checking to see if he got what it takes, Do you remember all the BS that Phil Simms took when Parcels caoched the giants..

Maybe he is playing mind games, maybe not in the meantime Henson can't let it get to him. Just keep working and trying to improve and whatever happens, happens.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Maybe he is playing mind games, maybe not in the meantime Henson can't let it get to him. Just keep working and trying to improve and whatever happens, happens.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst on that deal. I really hope a hard and fast decision is made on both these guys this season, good or bad. I just wish we could confirm that we have a guy or that we are ready to do what it takes to try and get a guy. Kills me sometimes Dooms.

[RCowboyFan]

Hope for the best, plan for the worst on that deal. I really hope a hard and fast decision is made on both these guys this season, good or bad. I just wish we could confirm that we have a guy or that we are ready to do what it takes to try and get a guy. Kills me sometimes Dooms.

Yeah, you and probbaly 100s of other cowboys fan. All we hear is, they are confident about one of two guys being the future. Yet, we never get any sollid confirmation as to who it is they think is the guy.

And then Parcells will decide to leave a nugget in Media, for everyone to speculate/rejoice about, depending on I guess if you rooting for certain backup QB.

Although, in my opinion, he seems to have put both Romo and Henson on notice. Because he said he is going to give Romo lot more playing time in pre-season so that he can prove I guess he got something. And then says he needs to see more of Henson in TC, since he didn't see something he wanted to see in NFLE, although he saw improvement.

Well, maybe he thought he might throw a nugget to us Message Board fans to debate till death about who is right in picking which backup QB to be the future :D

[Doomsday101]

Hope for the best, plan for the worst on that deal. I really hope a hard and fast decision is made on both these guys this season, good or bad. I just wish we could confirm that we have a guy or that we are ready to do what it takes to try and get a guy. Kills me sometimes Dooms.

True. In the meantime Henson just can't allow rumors or statements interfere with what he needs to do, all he can do is give it his best and at the end of the day if that is not good enough then so be it. This will be Henson 3rd year and I don't know what type of patients the team has regarding Henson.

[Hoov]

How about the next day...How was that !

i think fine, dont ever recall feeling bad after the shrooms, always thought it was a very mellow experience.

[jem88]

Was once a Henson fan, but its just another wacky experiment that isnt gonna work. It's time we move on to a real QB and stop trying to find baseball players.
...and stop wasting valuable 3rd round picks on these kinds of players.

[iceberg]

Exactly, I wonder how Romo would of done if he went to the NFLE,

But I really thinkl this Parcells way of playing mind games with Henson...checking to see if he got what it takes, Do you remember all the BS that Phil Simms took when Parcels caoched the giants..

people frying henson cause of parcells commentary are the same ones who probably love terry "she" glenn on our team now.

convenient memories are perplexing.

[kartr]

Jean-Jacques Taylor: Henson project could be sacked

Drew Henson's days in Dallas are numbered. That might be a good thing.

During last week's minicamp, coach Bill Parcells said he wasn't that impressed with Henson's performance in NFL Europe. Tony Romo has clearly passed Henson on the depth chart, and as long as Parcells is the head coach – of course that might only be for one more season – then Henson isn't going to move on the depth chart.

If this is true and I don't see why anyone would see otherwise...This is why he's such a Nozzle!

Henson could be the Second coming of Aikman...But we'll never know because Parcells has already made up his mind and we all know he's never wrong.

The fact that Henson can't beat out Romo, an udfa, tells the whole story, do you question if Aikman could beat out Romo. Heck, Romo couldn't beat out Carter or hold your nose, Hutch for that matter. I think we all know realistically that Henson isn't going to make it. If there was a shred starting ability, he would be gaining ground on Romo, not falling further behind heading into his 3rd training camp. There is a reason that Romo will be getting more playing time, one, to protect Bledsoe from injury, two: to see if he is capable of starting in case Bledsoe gets injured, they already know Romo is better than Henson. He's only still here because of Bill and Jerry's pride.

[ABQCOWBOY]

The fact that Henson can't beat out Romo, an udfa, tells the whole story, do you question if Aikman could beat out Romo. Heck, Romo couldn't beat out Carter or hold your nose, Hutch for that matter. I think we all know realistically that Henson isn't going to make it. If there was a shred starting ability, he would be gaining ground on Romo, not falling further behind heading into his 3rd training camp. There is a reason that Romo will be getting more playing time, one, to protect Bledsoe from injury, two: to see if he is capable of starting in case Bledsoe gets injured, they already know Romo is better than Henson. He's only still here because of Bill and Jerry's pride.


Speaking of Pride, it's time to let it Kartr. This always interjecting Quincy in any QB discussion has passed it's born on date. You know me and while I may not agree with you on matters of QB, I have always been straight up with you. You have to let it go at some point.

[The30YardSlant]

I say Henson deserves to be number two on the depth chart

Based on what?

[kartr]

all he has to do is beat Mroz for 3rd stringer so is not a wasted pick as of yet. i find it funny how people complain about spending a 3rd on henson and yet don't mention others like peterman and rogers who are complete busts.

The difference is that Peterman seemed like a good pickup, while an injury-prone college player like Rogers was obvious and yet, an 8 game starter like Henson who hadn't played football in 4-5 years cause he didn't want to was the most obvious of all. No one wants an intern who was a pre-law student or a law intern who was a pre-med student. Gotta pick one sport and stick with it, excepting if your name is Deion Sanders.

[kartr]

Dave Ragone and Rohan Davey went to Europe as the "Drew Henson" of NFLE their respective years ... mid-round draft picks who had more NFL "pedigree' and name than the rest of their peers. They both dominated the league and won the MVP award easily. It was clear they were just on another level than everyone else in the league at the position.

Obviously, that doesn't predict NFL success in either case, but it just goes to show that cream can and does rise to the top in that league. However meager that may be.

Well said my friend, well said.

[kartr]

I never followed either player in Europe, but I think they never had to cope with how depleted Henson's supporting cast was.

Excuses, excuses. True starters makes those around them better.

[kartr]

You hit the nail on the head with the comments about Aikman and Elway....maybe Henson was touted as a 1st round pick at one point, but right now he's not even on the level of Tim Couch. He should have dominated the NFLE league, regardless of the talent level around him. He should have sent a message that the starting QB job in Dallas is up for grabs this summer. He didn't do any of that, he looked slighty above average at best in Europe.

The thing most of the Hensonite faithful fail to realize is that Parcells don't like Henson and favors Romo, maybe Henson just isn't a Parcells type of player for that matter either.....add the fact that Bledsoe is here for the immediate future, and it all adds up to a big no win situation for Henson.

The best thing this franchise can do for this kid right now is just cut him outright so he can sign with another team in time for training camp, learn their system, and have a chance to compete for a 2nd or 3rd string spot.

~The Answer

Here Here!

[iceberg]

Based on what?

a world pretty much smart enough to go the opposite of anything you say, graney. : )

[5Stars]

a world pretty much smart enough to go the opposite of anything you say, graney. : )

Oh, no....here we go! :rolleyes:

Shrooms kicking in?

[bbgun]

Trust me, the next coach won't be any more enamored.

[iceberg]

Oh, no....here we go! :rolleyes:

Shrooms kicking in?

no shrooms here man. never had 'em it just sounded funny.

[iceberg]

Trust me, the next coach won't be any more enamored.

trust me - always believe 100% those who have enough confidence to start off their thoughts w/"trust me" for they can never be wrong.

[The30YardSlant]

a world pretty much smart enough to go the opposite of anything you say, graney. : )

HH posts about Henson, iceberg is never far behind. I'd like my jock back, please.

BTW, the above statement made no sense, either in context or grammar wise

[kartr]

Its not what you paid for the car that matters, its how much rust is on it.

I think you knocked that one out of the park! So much for Drew's pedigree.:lmao:

[iceberg]

HH posts about Henson, iceberg is never far behind. I'd like my jock back, please.

BTW, the above statement made no sense, either in context or grammar wise

to you, i'm sure it didn't. to anyone who doesn't call the 4th grade the best 5 years of their life, i'm sure they're ok.

[kartr]

Speaking of Pride, it's time to let it Kartr. This always interjecting Quincy in any QB discussion has passed it's born on date. You know me and while I may not agree with you on matters of QB, I have always been straight up with you. You have to let it go at some point.

Do you say the same to those who continue to bash Quincy when his name wasn't even part of the original discussion. This is the problem I have with the objectivity here, it's okay to bash Quincy whenever you feel like it, but it's not okay to say anything positive about him. My comment was comparing Cowboy quarterbacks, not just about QC, so since he was a Cowboy qb and played at the same time as Hutch and Romo, who is still on the team, my comment was completely relavant.By the way, with all his faults, Q never needed to go to NFL Europe and was never seriously challenged by the likes of Romo, plus he has a winning record against both Vinnie and Bledsoe, who also have worn the star. Again, relevance.

[The30YardSlant]

to you, i'm sure it didn't. to anyone who doesn't call the 4th grade the best 5 years of their life, i'm sure they're ok.

Ah, insults. I guess I shouldnt expect anything less, after all it's all you're good at, right? Too bad you still can't provide any facts to back up your case that my opinion of Henson is wrong.

BTW, here is another free grammar lesson. Here is how you should have worded that sentence:

An organization smart enough to go the against anything you say, graney

Next time, I will charge a fee for that.

[iceberg]

Ah, insults. I guess I shouldnt expect anything less, after all it's all you're good at, right? Too bad you still can't provide any facts to back up your case that my opinion of Henson is wrong.

BTW, here is another free grammar lesson. Here is how you should have worded that sentence:

Next time, I will charge a fee for that.

i'll put the bill right next to your common sense so no one will miss either. but, i did mean "the world" and as an afterthought to your question, the sentence structure is fine. not ideal, but fine in that context.

you still think i give a flip what you care of henson. >g<

[5Stars]

Do you say the same to those who continue to bash Quincy when his name wasn't even part of the original discussion. This is the problem I have with the objectivity here, it's okay to bash Quincy whenever you feel like it, but it's not okay to say anything positive about him. My comment was comparing Cowboy quarterbacks, not just about QC, so since he was a Cowboy qb and played at the same time as Hutch and Romo, who is still on the team, my comment was completely relavant.By the way, with all his faults, Q never needed to go to NFL Europe and was never seriously challenged by the likes of Romo, plus he has a winning record against both Vinnie and Bledsoe, who also have worn the star. Again, relevance.

You don't get it, do you?

You are moaning about people jumping on Krankcase...BUT...IT'S YOU that always brings his name into a dicsussion about CURRENT QB's!

That bum is long gone...and you still defend him? :confused: Krankcase cannot even make it in the CFL! Now, how bad is that?

Do what the poster from Albuquerque suggested...forget Krankcase, or get some therapy....hell, try some shrooms! Something!

Quincy Carter is a total failure as an NFL player...actually as a football player! Accept that fact! He has problems, bro...he's done! GET FREAKING OVER IT!

Here, have two Stars to help you with your recovery, OK?

:starspin :starspin

[RCowboyFan]

You don't get it, do you?

You are moaning about people jumping on Krankcase...BUT...IT'S YOU that always brings his name into a dicsussion about CURRENT QB's!

That bum is long gone...and you still defend him? :confused: Krankcase cannot even make it in the CFL! Now, how bad is that?

Do what the poster from Albuquerque suggested...forget Krankcase, or get some therapy....hell, try some shrooms! Something!

Quincy Carter is a total failure as an NFL player...actually as a football player! Accept that fact! He has problems, bro...he's done! GET FREAKING OVER IT!

Here, have two Stars to help you with your recovery, OK?

:starspin :starspin


:lmao2: :lmao:

[Chocolate Lab]

You don't get it, do you?

You are moaning about people jumping on Krankcase...That one will never get old... :lmao2:

[ConcordCowboy]

The fact that Henson can't beat out Romo, an udfa, tells the whole story, do you question if Aikman could beat out Romo. Heck, Romo couldn't beat out Carter or hold your nose, Hutch for that matter. I think we all know realistically that Henson isn't going to make it. If there was a shred starting ability, he would be gaining ground on Romo, not falling further behind heading into his 3rd training camp. There is a reason that Romo will be getting more playing time, one, to protect Bledsoe from injury, two: to see if he is capable of starting in case Bledsoe gets injured, they already know Romo is better than Henson. He's only still here because of Bill and Jerry's pride.

Training Camp hasn't even started yet...So how is it that Henson hasn't beat Romo out yet?

He beat him out his first year without any of the NFLE experience.

Now he has that and AFTER Training Camp then we'll talk about who can't beat out whom.

[Jarv]

Training Camp hasn't even started yet...So how is it that Henson hasn't beat Romo out yet?

He beat him out his first year without any of the NFLE experience.

Now he has that and AFTER Training Camp then we'll talk about who can't beat out whom.

Hear hear...

Sheesh guys wait and see 1st.

[big dog cowboy]

By the way, with all his faults, Q never needed to go to NFL Europe
Circumstances between Henson and QC and the way each entered the NFL were completely different.

[Bigdog24]

How can a undrafted player from somewhere in the boondocks college who has never took a NFL snap be qualifed as TRUE backup QB, I no what people are saying about Henson,,,,He's not gonna make it, cut him now..BLA BLA BLA

Bottomline they are both worthy of the being the number 3 QB, The Cowboys are one injury away (to Bledsoe) from playoff contender to total melt down.... TO will tear this team apart if a subpar QB has to step in...Its all or nothin at the QB Slot..... There is not a qualified Backup qb on this team.

[Hoov]

Oh, no....here we go! :rolleyes:

Shrooms kicking in?

LOL, "kicking in" man its been a while since i heard that phrase, you must have some experience too.:)

[Bob Sacamano]

but if you won't give them 2-3 when there's no "cost" to the franchise, when will you give them that 16?

when they're ready to help you win football games

believe me, if Parcells is forced to start Vinny, then that must show you how green the guys behind him are, and listen to Parcells, he said he didn't want to throw Romo to the wolves

think about it, what would be more potentially dangering for a coach, losing a whole team by starting a young guy for 3 games while your team is trying to finish the season on a high note, and maybe, just maybe, get a shot to go to the postseason, or losing that young guy by starting him, who may or may not show you anything? and we all know how much Parcells cares for 1 player above all the others...none

[2much2soon]

I love the Parcell's "I don't want to play him(Henson or Romo) too soon because I could lose them" schtick.
I might be inclined to believe that if Parcells wasn't well known for playing head games with players to toughen them up.
The phrase "I don't want to lose the player" is code for "I can't admit the guy I brought in (who played for me before) is a mistake".
No way in hell Romo or Henson shouldn't have been getting playing time instead of Vinny. Vinny was horrible and everyone on the team and in the stands could see it.

[Idgit]

I love the Parcell's "I don't want to play him(Henson or Romo) too soon because I could lose them" schtick.
I might be inclined to believe that if Parcells wasn't well known for playing head games with players to toughen them up.
The phrase "I don't want to lose the player" is code for "I can't admit the guy I brought in (who played for me before) is a mistake".
No way in hell Romo or Henson shouldn't have been getting playing time instead of Vinny. Vinny was horrible and everyone on the team and in the stands could see it.
Anyone remember Eli Manning's first 5 games as a pro? Care to imagine what the Dallas press and CZ drama queens would do to Romo or Henson if either of them started 3 disasterous games at the end of the year? Then what? Pickup Bledsoe as a vet FA, and put the young guy back on the bench to stew a bit longer? Pass on Bledsoe because you've already started the Henson/Romo era? Draft a new player at 11 instead of Demarcus Ware?

Get real.

[iceberg]

Anyone remember Eli Manning's first 5 games as a pro? Care to imagine what the Dallas press and CZ drama queens would do to Romo or Henson if either of them started 3 disasterous games at the end of the year? Then what? Pickup Bledsoe as a vet FA, and put the young guy back on the bench to stew a bit longer? Pass on Bledsoe because you've already started the Henson/Romo era? Draft a new player at 11 instead of Demarcus Ware?

Get real.

so fear of the press and forum drama queens guides pro football decisions?

*someone* does need to "get real".

[Idgit]

so fear of the press and forum drama queens guides pro football decisions?

*someone* does need to "get real".

No. Not fear. Forum drama queens are tiresome, not scary.
I'm talking about an awareness of the damage that three bad games and a long offseason of second-guessing and bad press would do to the team. And for what? Three games of experience with a bad offense and a weak OL? To collect what data, exactly?

As I said above, unless the player just plays lights-out, you only create confusion and uncertainty by playing him for just 3 games at the end of the year.

[iceberg]

No. Not fear. Forum drama queens are tiresome, not scary.
I'm talking about an awareness of the damage that three bad games and a long offseason of second-guessing and bad press would do to the team. And for what? Three games of experience with a bad offense and a weak OL? To collect what data, exactly?

As I said above, unless the player just plays lights-out, you only create confusion and uncertainty by playing him for just 3 games at the end of the year.

how?

you know you're out of the playoffs.
you know a 41 year old qb isn't gonna be here the following year
you DON'T know what your 2 qb's can do "on the field" and "during a REAL game".

you're screaming out a lot of FUD that doesn't add up.

[5Stars]

how?

you know you're out of the playoffs.
you know a 41 year old qb isn't gonna be here the following year
you DON'T know what your 2 qb's can do "on the field" and "during a REAL game".

you're screaming out a lot of FUD that doesn't add up.

What does FUD mean? Inquiring minds want to know...

:star:

[iceberg]

What does FUD mean? Inquiring minds want to know...

:star:

fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

[Idgit]

how?

you know you're out of the playoffs.
you know a 41 year old qb isn't gonna be here the following year
you DON'T know what your 2 qb's can do "on the field" and "during a REAL game".

you're screaming out a lot of FUD that doesn't add up.

I hate it when I accidently scream out FUD.

Why don't you walk me through a likely scenario, then. Say it was Henson. Purely hypothetically, let's say he has one series each game that goes nearly as well as the Bmore series that year (6:6, and a TD, IIRC). The rest of the time he looks largely like he did in the first half against Chicago: dreadful.

Now, you DO know what one of your 2 QBs can do in three games on a bad team 'on the field, during a REAL game.' Congrats! Armed with that useful data, heading into last offseason with the 11 and the 20 picks, what do you do, and how do you get the team in a better position than we're in today as a result? Do you draft a QB? Which one? Do you pickup Bledsoe and interrupt the grooming process for Henson? Bench him with the idea that he'll develop even more in a few years? Do you scrap him and go with Romo? Go with Bledsoe anyway? Bundle the picks and move up in the draft to get Aaron Rogers? Remember, your valuable data's not useful if you don't do anything with it.

[iceberg]

I hate it when I accidently scream out FUD.

Why don't you walk me through a likely scenario, then. Say it was Henson. Purely hypothetically, let's say he has one series each game that goes nearly as well as the Bmore series that year (6:6, and a TD, IIRC). The rest of the time he looks largely like he did in the first half against Chicago: dreadful.

Now, you DO know what one of your 2 QBs can do in three games on a bad team 'on the field, during a REAL game.' Congrats! Armed with that useful data, heading into last offseason with the 11 and the 20 picks, what do you do, and how do you get the team in a better position than we're in today as a result? Do you draft a QB? Which one? Do you pickup Bledsoe and interrupt the grooming process for Henson? Bench him with the idea that he'll develop even more in a few years? Do you scrap him and go with Romo? Go with Bledsoe anyway? Bundle the picks and move up in the draft to get Aaron Rogers? Remember, your valuable data's not useful if you don't do anything with it.

analysis is analysis - if he tanks 3 games running (romo or henson here, not advocating either, just the lost opportunity for both) then you know what to work on and then you can determine *IF* you feel that qb can make the jump.

as it stands we only have practices for romo and nfle for henson.

data's useless if you don't bother to collect it. so while i agree you don't do anything with collected data, it's useless - if you don't collect it, you don't have the opportunity to use it or not.

cart before the horse kinda thing.

[Bob Sacamano]

I love the Parcell's "I don't want to play him(Henson or Romo) too soon because I could lose them" schtick.
I might be inclined to believe that if Parcells wasn't well known for playing head games with players to toughen them up.
The phrase "I don't want to lose the player" is code for "I can't admit the guy I brought in (who played for me before) is a mistake".
No way in hell Romo or Henson shouldn't have been getting playing time instead of Vinny. Vinny was horrible and everyone on the team and in the stands could see it.

think about it, Parcells wasn't afraid to play Drew Bledsoe as a rook, and he showed that he could play

[Bob Sacamano]

so fear of the press and forum drama queens guides pro football decisions?

*someone* does need to "get real".

seems many people are using the, "everyone wants to see if the young guys have it or not" motto anyways, so why not?

[wileedog]

data's useless if you don't bother to collect it. so while i agree you don't do anything with collected data, it's useless - if you don't collect it, you don't have the opportunity to use it or not.

cart before the horse kinda thing.

However small samples sizes for data are useless at best, misleading at worst. We would be foolish to take any sort of real action based on whatever limited information we would have gleaned from either of these guys basically flailing around in those games.

Plus you open up those two young guys to all kinds of fan and media knee-jerk reactions if they (predictably, under the circimstances) struggle. There were actually articles writing off Drew Henson after his half against Chicago.

Doesn't seem worth it to me.

[ABQCOWBOY]

think about it, Parcells wasn't afraid to play Drew Bledsoe, and he showed that he was ready his rookie year


If you look back to Bledsoe's rookie year, it was pretty unusual. BP may have felt as if Bledsoe was ready but you also have to factor in the extensive amount of injuries New England had to there QBs that year. At the start of the season, Bledsoe was pretty much the only one healthy. I think Bledsoe deserves a great deal of credit for playing the way he did but who knows what would have happened had things worked out different. Water under the bridge now I suppose. I just hope that Bledsoe proves to be the kind of QB so many believe him to be. I would love to see him step up and lead the team to a title. However, I can't say that I don't have my fears. It is a hard thing for me to believe he can do it. That's probably more on me then him but still, it's the truth.

[RCowboyFan]

If you look back to Bledsoe's rookie year, it was pretty unusual. BP may have felt as if Bledsoe was ready but you also have to factor in the extensive amount of injuries New England had to there QBs that year. At the start of the season, Bledsoe was pretty much the only one healthy. I think Bledsoe deserves a great deal of credit for playing the way he did but who knows what would have happened had things worked out different. Water under the bridge now I suppose. I just hope that Bledsoe proves to be the kind of QB so many believe him to be. I would love to see him step up and lead the team to a title. However, I can't say that I don't have my fears. It is a hard thing for me to believe he can do it. That's probably more on me then him but still, it's the truth.

Last year for sure, it was hard thing for me, way before second half colapse, OL or not. But this year I am lot more hopefull, but I still am waiting for second half, especially how he plays in December, if Team does well till then, to decide if my optimism about Bledsoe is warranted. Actually to be honest, I am more optimistic about the whole team than Bledsoe. I.e. if most of the weapons added and people returning from injury work at as well as we hope, I think Bledsoe can be the Bus driver that BP wants to get them to big game.

But on the topic, all I can say is, I am not as convinced of BP and his QB choices, as I am of his LB/RB/WR etc. choices. Heck anything other than QB, I am confident in what BP does. I know hindsight is 20/20, but if he was such a good talent evaluator at QB, he wouldn't have let Jake Delhomme walk, IMO. He might have been a journeyman, but far better journeyman than the guys he has had so far in his Cowboys tenure. Although it seems like both JErry and BP played a part in that, so it might not be totally BP fault.

On other hand, if whoever he picks as next QB for Cowboys end up being the next really good one for Cowboys, then I guess we have to give it to BP. I am hopefull that he will get it right though. Eventhough I am not too enomoured with our current status.

[Idgit]

However small samples sizes for data are useless at best, misleading at worst. We would be foolish to take any sort of real action based on whatever limited information we would have gleaned from either of these guys basically flailing around in those games.

Plus you open up those two young guys to all kinds of fan and media knee-jerk reactions if they (predictably, under the circimstances) struggle. There were actually articles writing off Drew Henson after his half against Chicago.

Doesn't seem worth it to me.

Yeah. My point, exactly. Eli, playing in the same division, with a similar coach, stunk out loud until playing the Cowboys in the last game of the year. He had a better offensive team to work with, and was much more prepared than either Romo or Henson at that point. It was still a questionable call on Coughlin's part at the time.

Now, had we gone with a young player early in the year, mixed in a few series here and there, and benched Testaverde, say, week 5, that's something I could have gotten on board with. But that's a much bigger commitment to a young player when the coaching staff just doesn't believe he's ready yet, and it is, really, writing off a season.

[jackrussell]

you DON'T know what your 2 qb's can do "on the field" and "during a REAL game".

Perhaps you DO know what your 2 qb's can't do "on the field" and "during a REAL game.

[Bob Sacamano]

Perhaps you DO know what your 2 qb's can't do "on the field" and "during a REAL game.

you do know, but you don't know if that's going to be the case throughout their career

[jackrussell]

you do know, but you don't know if that's going to be the case throughout their career

Perhaps the people that matter do.

[Bob Sacamano]

Perhaps the people that matter do.

perhaps they don't, such as Parcells saying HEnson needs to step it up

[iceberg]

Perhaps you DO know what your 2 qb's can't do "on the field" and "during a REAL game.

so where'd you find this out? assuming from practice is great and all, but it still isn't "on the field" in a real game.

[wileedog]

so where'd you find this out? assuming from practice is great and all, but it still isn't "on the field" in a real game.

If they aren't playing well in practice, by what logic do you think they could even remotely look better in a real game?

[Alexander]

so where'd you find this out? assuming from practice is great and all, but it still isn't "on the field" in a real game.

But think about Henson's real game experience. Take the Baltimore game. We all can see now that his success there was due in large part to the loose coverages the Ravens were in. Once Chicago had time to prepare for him, they confused the daylights out of him.

Say Romo was played in these trash games. Would we know more about him?

Sometimes we are more curious for ourselves than anything else. NFL coaches can and do gather what they need from practices. How else would they know a QB like for example, Carson Palmer was ready to start? He had very little meaningful gameplay his first year. Same for Culpepper.

[jackrussell]

perhaps they don't, such as Parcells saying HEnson needs to step it up

So do tell where Parcell's is wrong.

[RCowboyFan]

But think about Henson's real game experience. Take the Baltimore game. We all can see now that his success there was due in large part to the loose coverages the Ravens were in. Once Chicago had time to prepare for him, they confused the daylights out of him.

Say Romo was played in these trash games. Would we know more about him?

Sometimes we are more curious for ourselves than anything else. NFL coaches can and do gather what they need from practices. How else would they know a QB like for example, Carson Palmer was ready to start? He had very little meaningful gameplay his first year. Same for Culpepper.

Maybe you ought to watch the game again, because I doubt Henson fumbled on his first snap because they were on loose coverage.

They were blitzing pretty well. But I think Chicago had game film on Henson and were prepared to play him, rather than Baltimore, who were really prepared to play only Vinny.

As far as second statement, I am sure Saints saw plenty of Jake Delhomme in practice and even in couple games, yet they, in their all their wisdom thought, Aaron Brooks was the better QB. So much for knowing by watching practices.

Both the guys you mention, are first rounders, with lot of money invested and they are usually pushed to play, much like J.P. Losman even if they suck in or not the best in Practice or Akili Smith etc.. In fact, there were many reports that Palmer wasn't the best player in practice and Kitna was when they decided to start him. Same with every year we keep hearing how Byron Leftwitch is outperformed in Practice by his backup, yet Leftwitch is the guy starting and might also add, indeed is the better QB.

So your argument is not really valid about practices always proving that a player can play. Heck, we all know Ben wasn't so hot in Pittsburgh when he started with obvious statements from players.

Not that I am totally disagreeing with you, but examples you gave are not good ones though.

[wileedog]

As far as second statement, I am sure Saints saw plenty of Jake Delhomme in practice and even in couple games, yet they, in their all their wisdom thought, Aaron Brooks was the better QB. So much for knowing by watching practices.

Kinda shot your own argument in the foot there, no?

[iceberg]

But think about Henson's real game experience. Take the Baltimore game. We all can see now that his success there was due in large part to the loose coverages the Ravens were in. Once Chicago had time to prepare for him, they confused the daylights out of him.

Say Romo was played in these trash games. Would we know more about him?

Sometimes we are more curious for ourselves than anything else. NFL coaches can and do gather what they need from practices. How else would they know a QB like for example, Carson Palmer was ready to start? He had very little meaningful gameplay his first year. Same for Culpepper.

this is one of those where i can see valid arguments either way but yes - i'd feel like i knew more about my qb and better about decisions involving him if i let him play in a real game when i could.

if others don't need that - great. i do. : )

[jackrussell]

so where'd you find this out? assuming from practice is great and all, but it still isn't "on the field" in a real game.

Why do you feel they are assuming? Could it be a possibility they know what they have, even without the benefit of our input? This thing where y'all have the need to see for yourself is perplexing.

Hey, Jerry thought from the info given him Henson was the real deal. There were other NFL owners that felt the same way. Now, after 3 years we're possibly finding out that this wasn't the case, but we're in a pickle because we've committed too much time, money, and effort to abandon the plan, a plan that has changed somewhat over time, but could take several more years than most people have the patience for. Hopefully, with some good QB training, Henson will one day be able to take control of the Cowboys, and we can send the others packing or in the least, close enough for support. Until then, this constant BP bashing is doing nothing for the morale of our team, and in that way, could be helping our opponents when they meet our team that doesn't have our full support.

[iceberg]

bill parcells is perfect - i realize that now and want to thank everyone for their guidance.

another glass please. : )

[wileedog]

bill parcells is perfect - i realize that now and want to thank everyone for their guidance.

another glass please. : )

No, he stinks at drafting OLineman.

And he totally suckered his own self in 2004.

Other than that.... :thumbup:

[Alexander]

Maybe you ought to watch the game again, because I doubt Henson fumbled on his first snap because they were on loose coverage.

They were blitzing pretty well. But I think Chicago had game film on Henson and were prepared to play him, rather than Baltimore, who were really prepared to play only Vinny.

I am talking the coverage schemes, which were man and not complex zones. Chicago confused him and they made it look easy. And the film they had of Henson was a series or two, so it didn't take much.

As far as second statement, I am sure Saints saw plenty of Jake Delhomme in practice and even in couple games, yet they, in their all their wisdom thought, Aaron Brooks was the better QB. So much for knowing by watching practices.

How did they know to trade for Aaron Brooks? He never got a down of regular season time in. Rob Johnson looked great in real games with the Jags but couldn't play for Buffalo.

There isn't a right or wrong way to do this. But for some reason, some just stick to this actual game experience business as the end all be all, when there is no completely tried and true method.

[RCowboyFan]

I am talking the coverage schemes, which were man and not complex zones. Chicago confused him and they made it look easy. And the film they had of Henson was a series or two, so it didn't take much.



How did they know to trade for Aaron Brooks? He never got a down of regular season time in. Rob Johnson looked great in real games with the Jags but couldn't play for Buffalo.

There isn't a right or wrong way to do this. But for some reason, some just stick to this actual game experience business as the end all be all, when there is no completely tried and true method.

Agree there. But I do think it should be a mixture of both methods. I.e. practice and game time. Sometimes players look great in practice or in few games, but when given chance in games or long period of games depending on which situation we are talking about, they tank.

Thats why I guess QB position is such a hard position to evaluate.

[iceberg]

No, he stinks at drafting OLineman.

And he totally suckered his own self in 2004.

Other than that.... :thumbup:

sorry - just frustrating when talking opinions to get "but you're not the coach...so there!" as an end all say all, so what's the point at that point.

NO ONE in particular, this has just been an ongoing gripe i've seen so many do recently.

[wileedog]

sorry - just frustrating when talking opinions to get "but you're not the coach...so there!" as an end all say all, so what's the point at that point.


I agree, its a horrible arguement. We're all here because we have opinions about what should be done, but lets face facts - if we really knew that much we'd be working in Valley Ranch not typing away at each other on a message board. :)

That said, we all have to realize that Parcells and the staff obviously have much, much, much, more information to go on than we do when making these decisions. Its easy to second guess when you don't have all the facts.

In fact I'm sure that drives a lot of the frustration about not seeing Romo or Henson play - its a rare chance for us to get the same data as Bill and the coaches.

[Doomsday101]

I agree, its a horrible arguement. We're all here because we have opinions about what should be done, but lets face facts - if we really knew that much we'd be working in Valley Ranch not typing away at each other on a message board. :)

That said, we all have to realize that Parcells and the staff obviously have much, much, much, more information to go on than we do when making these decisions. Its easy to second guess when you don't have all the facts.

In fact I'm sure that drives a lot of the frustration about not seeing Romo or Henson play - its a rare chance for us to get the same data as Bill and the coaches.

I agree. No one wants to hear that the coach may actually know more about what is going on than a fan does however it is true and while we can all have opinions our opinions normally are driven by our own personal feelings or agenda.

[Alexander]

I agree, its a horrible arguement. We're all here because we have opinions about what should be done, but lets face facts - if we really knew that much we'd be working in Valley Ranch not typing away at each other on a message board. :)

That said, we all have to realize that Parcells and the staff obviously have much, much, much, more information to go on than we do when making these decisions. Its easy to second guess when you don't have all the facts.

In fact I'm sure that drives a lot of the frustration about not seeing Romo or Henson play - its a rare chance for us to get the same data as Bill and the coaches.

What I don't quite understand is that we do have a proven winning head coach. This isn't a coach who fell off the turnip truck yesterday nor is he some underqualified Jerry Jones puppet. He has a track record, yet some are prepared to state that his method here is just wrong.

He has made some grave mistakes in Dallas. But not playing Henson or Romo just so the fans can have a taste of what they can do isn't as high on the list as we make it out to be.

[jackrussell]

bill parcells is perfect - i realize that now and want to thank everyone for their guidance.

another glass please. : )

In an obvious attempt to invoke irony, it blows right by.....

[iceberg]

I agree. No one wants to hear that the coach may actually know more about what is going on than a fan does however it is true and while we can all have opinions our opinions normally are driven by our own personal feelings or agenda.

great - but what good does it to to tell someone who doesn't agree with something bp is doing that they're not the coach so their opinion is ?

[jackrussell]

great - but what good does it to to tell someone who doesn't agree with something bp is doing that they're not the coach so their opinion is ?

Who said your opinion is, um, ?

[ABQCOWBOY]

What I don't quite understand is that we do have a proven winning head coach. This isn't a coach who fell off the turnip truck yesterday nor is he some underqualified Jerry Jones puppet. He has a track record, yet some are prepared to state that his method here is just wrong.

He has made some grave mistakes in Dallas. But not playing Henson or Romo just so the fans can have a taste of what they can do isn't as high on the list as we make it out to be.


Parcells is not infowlable. Nobody is asking for Henson or Romo to be the starters. There wondering why were wasting time on either if neither is talented enough to get time in a meaningless game. Romo has four years, Henson has three. If neither are any good or if only one is no good, why is he still here? That, more then anything is the question IMO.

[iceberg]

Who said your opinion is, um, ?

what else is the point of "but you're not the coach so you don't know!!!"?

[jackrussell]

what else is the point of "but you're not the coach so you don't know!!!"?

Well since I know you can't edit other's post on this site, is this your way of putting words into someone's mouth?

My last elongated post was an obvious good natured jab at certain philosophies that you and I have differed on in the past, an example of irony if you will. OK, you didn't get it, so, time to throw the hands up and give us the Parcells is perfect shinola, and then tell the world we have crowned your opinion .

Alrighty then. Anything else you'd like to tell us we said that we didn't?

[iceberg]

Well since I know you can't edit other's post on this site, is this your way of putting words into someone's mouth?

My last elongated post was an obvious good natured jab at certain philosophies that you and I have differed on in the past, an example of irony if you will. OK, you didn't get it, so, time to throw the hands up and give us the Parcells is perfect shinola, and then tell the world we have crowned your opinion .

Alrighty then. Anything else you'd like to tell us we said that we didn't?

can we also go back to when i first made this comment in this thread and I FLAT OUT SAID my comment was NOT directed to anyone but overall statement of frustration at MANY arguments i've had where in the end i was told i wasn't the coach so what do i know.

quit trying to make me defend a twist of what i said. that's another irritation. : )

[Alexander]

Parcells is not infowlable.

I should certainly hope not.

If so, he should see a doctor.:)

Nobody is asking for Henson or Romo to be the starters. There wondering why were wasting time on either if neither is talented enough to get time in a meaningless game. Romo has four years, Henson has three. If neither are any good or if only one is no good, why is he still here? That, more then anything is the question IMO.

Again, what games are "meaningless"? No self-respecting NFL coach is going to throw away a game if he can help it. It's simple: in 2004, Henson and Romo didn't give us the best chance to win. Last year, the gameplan was already in the can for the Rams game. Romo didn't get reps all that week and you want to just play him anyways? That would do next to nothing for your evaluation because he didn't get the reps. It's not fair to the player.

[Bluefin]

Romo didn't get reps all that week and you want to just play him anyways?
And what would asking him to throw against a defense set on stopping the pass have gained given the shaky offensive line in that game?

At best, Romo might've shown the fortitude to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball with the rush bearing down on him.

At worst?

A major injury in an already lost contest that would've left his status for the 2006 season in doubt.

[Bob Sacamano]

So do tell where Parcell's is wrong.

not saying he's wrong, just that he only knows what Henson is or isn't capable of now, not in the future, which is why he's still here

[Bob Sacamano]

Maybe you ought to watch the game again, because I doubt Henson fumbled on his first snap because they were on loose coverage.

They were blitzing pretty well. But I think Chicago had game film on Henson and were prepared to play him, rather than Baltimore, who were really prepared to play only Vinny.

As far as second statement, I am sure Saints saw plenty of Jake Delhomme in practice and even in couple games, yet they, in their all their wisdom thought, Aaron Brooks was the better QB. So much for knowing by watching practices.

I'm pretty sure Chicago was run-blitzing and making Henson beat us w/ his arm, of course he couldn't

Both the guys you mention, are first rounders, with lot of money invested and they are usually pushed to play, much like J.P. Losman even if they suck in or not the best in Practice or Akili Smith etc.. In fact, there were many reports that Palmer wasn't the best player in practice and Kitna was when they decided to start him. Same with every year we keep hearing how Byron Leftwitch is outperformed in Practice by his backup, yet Leftwitch is the guy starting and might also add, indeed is the better QB.


exactly, why do you think Buffalo jettisoned Bledsoe and started Losman? because of what you just said, but I think coaches charting their players in practice is just as effective as watching them play in 2 or 3 games

[Bob Sacamano]

Hey, Jerry thought from the info given him Henson was the real deal. There were other NFL owners that felt the same way. Now, after 3 years we're possibly finding out that this wasn't the case, but we're in a pickle because we've committed too much time, money, and effort to abandon the plan, a plan that has changed somewhat over time

the plan was always that it's going to be a process with Henson, that it's going to take time, yet noone seems to get that...STILL hmmm

[silverbear]

Exactly...In Fact I can't believe that anyone who Actually watched all his games could come away with the Idea that He Hurt Himself at all... Let alone that he would now only a few weeks after be on the Bubble...There's just no way.

Well, there ARE valid criticisms of his play over there, and we don't know what exactly it was that Parcells was looking for when the Boys sent Drew over to Europe...

I just found it curious that he basically said he didn't see what he wanted to see, just days after being quoted saying he hadn't watched much of the play over there... yeah, I was confused by Parcells' recent remarks, and am inclined to believe they were part of his notorious mind games, an effort to see how Drew reacts to those words...

[silverbear]

It was that statement that leads me to believe that his comments at minicamp were psychological motivation aimed at Henson...


Silver Bear I have always liked your rationale and most of your posts, but if we all think about it, why would Parcells feel the need to "psychologically motivate" Henson if he felt he had seen enough?

Because that's Parcells' way of finding out if his QB is mentally tough... he knows that a quarterback is going to face adversity at some point in the season, and he wants a guy with the cojones to stand up to that...

And to turn your question back around on you, how could Parcells say that he didn't see all he was hoping to see, when just days before he said he really hadn't watched much of NFLE?? Perhaps he spent those few days studying film of Drew's play, but with minicamp right around the corner, I suspect he was doing other things...

I am not disagreeing with your point of view,

Aw, go on and disagree if you feel like it... it's not like my posts are the Sermon on the Mount, divinely inspired and never to be questioned...

LOL...

[silverbear]

i watched almost every game of NFLE - if not live, tivo'd.

i call bullshyte on this new found "stares down receivers" comment that seems to be coming in out of the blue.

I didn't see any of that either, ice...

[Bob Sacamano]

And what would asking him to throw against a defense set on stopping the pass have gained given the shaky offensive line in that game?

At best, Romo might've shown the fortitude to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball with the rush bearing down on him.

At worst?

A major injury in an already lost contest that would've left his status for the 2006 season in doubt.

:hammer: the best-case scenario can easily be discerned in watching a guy practice, the only point in playing somebody is to help you win football games, 2 or 3 games, even 16, isn't going to be an accurate measuring stick IMO, so why is Parcells going to bother then if it isn't going to help him win football games? after all, I've never seen anything in his track record that shows that Parcells is more concerned with the development of an individual over the collective team

[silverbear]

That statement was as revealing as anything. Didn't Parcells say at the rookie minicamp, when asked about Henson in NFLE, that he'd watched, "All but a couple" of his games?

I don't remember it that way, CL... I believe that the quotes came rather late in the season, like week 8 or so, and what Parcells said was that he'd SEEN a couple of Drew's games, not "all but a couple"...

If Parcells doesn't even bother to watch the guy play, in the offseason when he has plenty of time...

Then he's trying to recharge his batteries by getting entirely away from football for a few weeks... at his age, with the immense time and energy demanded by training camp and the regular season, I can understand the need to wind down, to basically forget all about football... go watch baseball spring training, go to the track, visit the grandkids...

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't remember it that way, CL... I believe that the quotes came rather late in the season, like week 8 or so, and what Parcells said was that he'd SEEN a couple of Drew's games, not "all but a couple"...

Parcells actually said that the day of the draft, or the following, that time Drew had 3 weeks left to go

[silverbear]

Excuses, excuses. True starters makes those around them better.

Which is precisely what Drew did... compare the yardage and point production when he was in the game compared to how the team fared when he wasn't... their single worst offensive performance all year long came in game 9, which just happened to be the one game that Henson missed...

Perhaps you should forego expressing your opinion on this subject, when you clearly don't know a thing about how Henson played over in Europe... you're just making yourself look silly with this weak garbage...

[Bob Sacamano]

you're just making yourself look silly with this weak garbage...

It began LOOOOONG before that

[silverbear]

no shrooms here man. never had 'em it just sounded funny.

You didn't miss anything, ice... my best friend in the world loved those things, and kept trying to talk me into trying them... eventually, I did, and I can tell you that I now know that tripping ain't for me...

And those things just taste NASTY...

[silverbear]

If they aren't playing well in practice, by what logic do you think they could even remotely look better in a real game?

In my athletic career (back in a younger day), I had any number of teammates who were all but useless in practice, but showed up big time on game day... some guys just step it up when the bullets start flying for real, they develop the sense of urgency that's missing in practice...

Which is not to say that how you practice isn't a useful indicator as to how you'll play the game-- MOST of the time...

[silverbear]

I should certainly hope not.

If so, he should see a doctor.:)

LOL... c'mon, Alexander, when he says Parcells is not "infowlable", he CLEARLY means he's not chicken...

That was one of the more enjoyable mis-spellings I've seen in a long time...

[iceberg]

I didn't see any of that either, ice...

i think some people just learned a phrase and can't wait to use it regardless if it applies.

[iceberg]

In my athletic career (back in a younger day), I had any number of teammates who were all but useless in practice, but showed up big time on game day... some guys just step it up when the bullets start flying for real, they develop the sense of urgency that's missing in practice...

Which is not to say that how you practice isn't a useful indicator as to how you'll play the game-- MOST of the time...

and this is what i mean. when i was in theater - i could do fine in rehearsals, but when the lights went on and people were there, it's a different game. you can and will react differently. you can see talent in rehearsal but you'll see a "gift" when it's for real in some.

i'm not saying henson or romo have "the gift" - i'm just saying when you have a chance to get them "real" playing time - it can tell you more than 50 1/3 speed practices when you're not allowed to hit anyone on the field.

most will be the same. some will fall and some will step it up. no way of knowing what you got till you play it.

period.

[jackrussell]

and this is what i mean. when i was in theater - i could do fine in rehearsals, but when the lights went on and people were there, it's a different game. you can and will react differently. you can see talent in rehearsal but you'll see a "gift" when it's for real in some.

i'm not saying henson or romo have "the gift" - i'm just saying when you have a chance to get them "real" playing time - it can tell you more than 50 1/3 speed practices when you're not allowed to hit anyone on the field.

most will be the same. some will fall and some will step it up. no way of knowing what you got till you play it.

period.

Well good, I'm glad we've gotten to the useless unrelated stories, so I'll share mine....

My dogs race straight line, 220 feet. I have my own track at home, and practice on occasion. So in my practices, I have a dog, that no matter how hard she tries, cannot finish better than 3rd out of 6.

So now I go to the official trial events, and don't enter the dog because I know her limits. Who is to tell me I should enter that dog in the official event so THEY can see how she does, when I already know she is not ready to perform at peak level?

OK, now we've had high school teammate story, theatre story, dog story....next?

[jackrussell]

the plan was always that it's going to be a process with Henson, that it's going to take time, yet noone seems to get that...STILL hmmm

OK, I'll save you some time and effort....If the guy that this post was intended for didn't get it's intent, I can assure you that you have know idea what I'm talking about.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I should certainly hope not.

If so, he should see a doctor.:)



Again, what games are "meaningless"? No self-respecting NFL coach is going to throw away a game if he can help it. It's simple: in 2004, Henson and Romo didn't give us the best chance to win. Last year, the gameplan was already in the can for the Rams game. Romo didn't get reps all that week and you want to just play him anyways? That would do next to nothing for your evaluation because he didn't get the reps. It's not fair to the player.

The ones that are not going to get you any further in a race for a playoff spot. They are meaningless. It is a perfect opportunity to see what you have. At that point, you should be building for the following year.

If your a backup QB, you have to be able to come in cold. That's the deal. Henson came in and played on Thanksgiving weekend with no preperation. Is that any more or less fair? That theory, IMO, does not hold water.

[wileedog]

In my athletic career (back in a younger day), I had any number of teammates who were all but useless in practice, but showed up big time on game day... some guys just step it up when the bullets start flying for real, they develop the sense of urgency that's missing in practice...

Which is not to say that how you practice isn't a useful indicator as to how you'll play the game-- MOST of the time...

I don't think a QB who had been out of football 3 years and a UDFA QB from a small school's problems in practice are "urgency."

Most likely they are still figuring out how to read defenses, pick up bltizes and hot receivers, and going through their progressions. If they are not doing those things well in practice, I have a hard time believing that the "urgency" of a 290lb DE bearing down on them is going to make them do something they can't do any better.

I would buy into your point more for a RB or LB. Not for two young QBs who are probably still just getting their heads around the mental aspect of being an NFL QB.

[silverbear]

i think some people just learned a phrase and can't wait to use it regardless if it applies.

Kinda like the way "speaking truth to power" has come in vogue in political circles...

[ABQCOWBOY]

and this is what i mean. when i was in theater - i could do fine in rehearsals, but when the lights went on and people were there, it's a different game. you can and will react differently. you can see talent in rehearsal but you'll see a "gift" when it's for real in some.

i'm not saying henson or romo have "the gift" - i'm just saying when you have a chance to get them "real" playing time - it can tell you more than 50 1/3 speed practices when you're not allowed to hit anyone on the field.

most will be the same. some will fall and some will step it up. no way of knowing what you got till you play it.

period.

I think this is true. When Favre was with the Falcons, they said he wasn't very impressive in practice. They traded him and even in Green Bay, they said the same thing early on. Delhomme was the same way. Said he was unimpressive in practice. Sonny Jerguson was the same. It happens.

[ABQCOWBOY]

LOL... c'mon, Alexander, when he says Parcells is not "infowlable", he CLEARLY means he's not chicken...

That was one of the more enjoyable mis-spellings I've seen in a long time...

I am a terrible speller, so I will make my apoligy and leave it at that. On occasion, I can laugh at myself right along with the rest of the world.

;)

[iceberg]

Well good, I'm glad we've gotten to the useless unrelated stories, so I'll share mine....

My dogs race straight line, 220 feet. I have my own track at home, and practice on occasion. So in my practices, I have a dog, that no matter how hard she tries, cannot finish better than 3rd out of 6.

So now I go to the official trial events, and don't enter the dog because I know her limits. Who is to tell me I should enter that dog in the official event so THEY can see how she does, when I already know she is not ready to perform at peak level?

OK, now we've had high school teammate story, theatre story, dog story....next?

good to know you're still here to tell me i'm wrong jack - not the same w/o ya!!!

[iceberg]

I think this is true. When Favre was with the Falcons, they said he wasn't very impressive in practice. They traded him and even in Green Bay, they said the same thing early on. Delhomme was the same way. Said he was unimpressive in practice. Sonny Jerguson was the same. It happens.

<looking around for jr to dispute this>

:cool:

[Alexander]

The ones that are not going to get you any further in a race for a playoff spot. They are meaningless. It is a perfect opportunity to see what you have. At that point, you should be building for the following year.

No owner, GM or head coach would share this opinion. Well, some unemployed ones might. Professionals don't throw games. Nor do they put themselves in positions where they don't give themselves at least a fighting chance to win if they can help it.

If your a backup QB, you have to be able to come in cold. That's the deal. Henson came in and played on Thanksgiving weekend with no preperation. Is that any more or less fair?

He had half a week of prep and he was responding because of injury. That's not "no preparation".

Totally different circumstance that the Rams game last year, in which we didn't know was meaningless until minutes before kickoff. If that game was even close to being for a playoff spot, you have to give the repetitions to the starter. All of them.

And if you give Romo the start, how fair is it if he had no preparation at all? And what good would that do for your evaluation? If anything it puts the player in a bad position and defeats the purpose. If playing him late is the complaint, that's more valid. But again, there wasn't much to gain, but we also wanted the chance for ten wins and that was what Parcells told them before the game. Given the player's listless performance out there, Romo would have been killed and completely shellshocked. Parcells did the right thing.

That theory, IMO, does not hold water.

Of course it doesn't. To a fan. An NFL head coach that views regular season games, no matter the record, as evaluation tools are not winning coaches in this league for long. If we had a playoff spot wrapped up, that's "meaningless".

[RCowboyFan]

I'm pretty sure Chicago was run-blitzing and making Henson beat us w/ his arm, of course he couldn't



exactly, why do you think Buffalo jettisoned Bledsoe and started Losman? because of what you just said, but I think coaches charting their players in practice is just as effective as watching them play in 2 or 3 games

Chicago was all out blitzing. Run-Pass, it didn't matter.

And you are proving my point with your post, on the second paragraph. I am not sure what point you are trying make with that second statement? Or you are contradicting yourself? Look, you cannot say, coaches know by looking at practices when there are numerous examples that is not exactly true.

I guess you can only say, it works in some instances and it doesn't in some. So practices aren't going to exactly gauge a players capability. So there is no perfect model to developing QBs, but it all comes down to, how they do when they get playing time in real games. Thats the bottom line. So far we know nothing of the QB. Jake Delhomme even played in his second or first year I think. And he won his first start too, against Cowboys. Yet, New Orleans still went with or traded for Aaron Brooks.

I am not saying play the QBs now so that we know either. All I am saying is, BP can't be 100% sure on how Romo or Henson will do in live game situations. He said so himself. He might have better idea than any of us, but its still up in the air. Thats why he obviously clings to his old Qbs.

[RCowboyFan]

Well, there ARE valid criticisms of his play over there, and we don't know what exactly it was that Parcells was looking for when the Boys sent Drew over to Europe...

I just found it curious that he basically said he didn't see what he wanted to see, just days after being quoted saying he hadn't watched much of the play over there... yeah, I was confused by Parcells' recent remarks, and am inclined to believe they were part of his notorious mind games, an effort to see how Drew reacts to those words...

No, thats wrong. Here is the recap of his interview, where he said he saw all games except one. And thats what I remember him saying.

http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=859951&postcount=1

But its interesting, in one month, i.e. after couple more games, Parcells decides, that he sees improvement to, he needed to see more? What changed or didn't Drew in those 2-3 games to change his mind? His injury or he didn't make it to World Bowl?

[Alexander]

No, thats wrong. Here is the recap of his interview, where he said he saw all games except one. And thats what I remember him saying.

http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=859951&postcount=1

But its interesting, in one month, i.e. after couple more games, Parcells decides, that he sees improvement to, he needed to see more? What changed or didn't Drew in those 2-3 games to change his mind? His injury or he didn't make it to World Bowl?

Hmm.

"Wanting to see more".

That could mean he would have liked the opportunity to see how he could do uninjured and with the same WR corps he was doing so well with in his first few games.

Why does this have to be viewed as a negative statement about Henson in particular?

[RCowboyFan]

Hmm.

"Wanting to see more".

That could mean he would have liked the opportunity to see how he could do uninjured and with the same WR corps he was doing so well with in his first few games.

Why does this have to be viewed as a negative statement about Henson in particular?

Good question. I guess only BP knows whey he threw that statement out. We all love to speculate, obviously, ones neutral, probably guys like you, go either way with that.

And minority few, already decided, Henson is going be cut including some in Media. Now I am not saying it might not happen, it just doesn't add for me.

Interesting thing, is, BP's statement about Romo is also a big question mark as in, he wasn't so sure about him either, which obviously why he said, he wanted to give him more time in pre-season to see what he has got.

Mick's article did a very good analysis of the situation. Seems like from his article, Romo is indeed on better footing right now. But at the same time, no one seem certain about who will be backup QB right now.

[ABQCOWBOY]

No owner, GM or head coach would share this opinion. Well, some unemployed ones might. Professionals don't throw games. Nor do they put themselves in positions where they don't give themselves at least a fighting chance to win if they can help it.



He had half a week of prep and he was responding because of injury. That's not "no preparation".

Totally different circumstance that the Rams game last year, in which we didn't know was meaningless until minutes before kickoff. If that game was even close to being for a playoff spot, you have to give the repetitions to the starter. All of them.

And if you give Romo the start, how fair is it if he had no preparation at all? And what good would that do for your evaluation? If anything it puts the player in a bad position and defeats the purpose. If playing him late is the complaint, that's more valid. But again, there wasn't much to gain, but we also wanted the chance for ten wins and that was what Parcells told them before the game. Given the player's listless performance out there, Romo would have been killed and completely shellshocked. Parcells did the right thing.



Of course it doesn't. To a fan. An NFL head coach that views regular season games, no matter the record, as evaluation tools are not winning coaches in this league for long. If we had a playoff spot wrapped up, that's "meaningless".


I believe you asked, "What games are meaningless?" I answered you, in kind. The rest of this tripe is conclusion and speculation on your behalf. However, I would comment on some of it.

GMs and Head coaches play young players all the time in situations where they don't feel as if the game is still realistically able to influence a playoff birth. The examples of this are too numerous to go into. If you force me to do it, I will but even you must know that this is a regular occurance in the NFL. Look no further then the Seattle/GB game last year. Holmgren sat Hasselbeck and played Seneca Wallace for the experience. It does happen all the time. Perhaps you should send a note to Holmgren and explain to him that he should be in fear of his job because of the moves made in the last game of the season against GB.

The definition of a back up QB is to be ready to play at any moment. Back up QBs anywhere in the league normally don't get snaps in practice. That's part of the job. To say that Romo wasn't prepared is rediculouse. His job is to be prepared under any circumstances. Plainly put, your full of crap on that one. It would not have made one bit of difference and probably could only have helped. Besides, who's to say that the backup had to start? Why is it out of the question to play him in the second half or even in the 4th quarter? I'm almost affraid you'll try to answer this with your usual knowledgable answers.

Henson received practically no practice other then walk through on the Thanksgiving day game. We played a Monday night game, followed by a day of travel, recoop and walk through. The following Thursday was game day. Your serious lack of acknowledgment on this is telling. A back up gets more preperation then what was received by Henson on any normal week of practice. There really is no question of it. At a minimum, the back up is in the meetings so they know what the game plan is for any given team on game day.

[Alexander]

I believe you asked, "What games are meaningless?" I answered you, in kind. The rest of this tripe is conclusion and speculation on your behalf.

Exhibition games are meaningless. And I really wish you could talk to some NFL execs. I don't think many worth much would agree on your assessment of "worthless games". But carry on.

Look no further then the Seattle/GB game last year. Holmgren sat Hasselbeck and played Seneca Wallace for the experience. It does happen all the time. Perhaps you should send a note to Holmgren and explain to him that he should be in fear of his job because of the moves made in the last game of the season against GB.

I would but if you took the time to read what I said before, when you have a playoff spot clinched, that's worthless. Nice try, but you failed miserably.

Henson received practically no practice other then walk through on the Thanksgiving day game.

:laugh2:

Now who is speculating? Have anything that confirms that Parcells only gave him a walk through?

[wileedog]

Henson received practically no practice other then walk through on the Thanksgiving day game. We played a Monday night game, followed by a day of travel, recoop and walk through. The following Thursday was game day. Your serious lack of acknowledgment on this is telling. A back up gets more preperation then what was received by Henson on any normal week of practice. There really is no question of it. At a minimum, the back up is in the meetings so they know what the game plan is for any given team on game day.

And Henson was largely terrible and pulled at halftime.

What exactly did we learn about Henson playing with no prep time?

Exactly nothing.

Meanwhile it started a firestorm of criticsism and some journalists were already declaring out loud the Henson experiement was over.

How does this further your point?

[jackrussell]

<looking around for jr to dispute this>

:cool:

Look all you like, I'm not here 24/7 brother.

So someone comes along and shares something that fits your agenda, therefore, you are correct? But then someone else comes along and gives an opposite example, and that's wrong. Yeah, I'm following ya here.

You have this hard on for Parcells cuz he didn't play Henson a satisfactory amount in games you have deemed meaningless. Could he have played him? Sure. Did he? No. Big deal. Just to show you that we have a 3rd string QB? Please. Perhaps all personel decisions should be show cased for your approval.

Usually this all works out on it's own. Rare it is that a starting QB, especially those of the age we have, go 16 games. I'm surprised in 2 seasons a backup hasn't been pressed into action, especially since the ones we have are statues, hold the ball too long, and perhaps the worse thing of all, one of Parcell's boys.:eek:

[iceberg]

Look all you like, I'm not here 24/7 brother.

So someone comes along and shares something that fits your agenda, therefore, you are correct? But then someone else comes along and gives an opposite example, and that's wrong. Yeah, I'm following ya here.

You have this hard on for Parcells cuz he didn't play Henson a satisfactory amount in games you have deemed meaningless. Could he have played him? Sure. Did he? No. Big deal. Just to show you that we have a 3rd string QB? Please. Perhaps all personel decisions should be show cased for your approval.

Usually this all works out on it's own. Rare it is that a starting QB, especially those of the age we have, go 16 games. I'm surprised in 2 seasons a backup hasn't been pressed into action, especially since the ones we have are statues, hold the ball too long, and perhaps the worse thing of all, one of Parcell's boys.:eek:

actually, JR - all i want and would hope for is some acknowledgement that i could be right that actual game time is valuable to the QB and to help evaluate what the player can do.

yet every time i say that you're there to tell me i'm wrong as if there is *only* right or wrong and i'm just stupid about this. at least that's how it's coming across - 'berg bad, 'berg, stupid. whole idea stupid... nowhere do you ever even say "yea, it "could" help even if only a little. i understand you may disagree but that alone doens't make you right and me wrong. well, not to me anyway but to you i sure seem to be wrong.

also - if you're gonna follow me around and tell me how wrong i am, please also understand i don't care if henson OR romo got that time - i just view it as wasted time, NOT a henson apology.

people confuse that a lot it seems.

as for "showcasing for my approval" - why do you feel that's what i'm after? i've said time and again *I* just feel that time would have been better spent on qb evaluation than trying to win 7 vs. 8 games that season. if you disagree fine but i recall you've gotten upset with me before when i'd take such a hard stance on *your* views. now when i'm trying to find that middle ground, it just doesn't seem to be there in return. you seem hellbent on trying to make me look foolish for my own views. isn't that what got you upset w/*me* awhile back?

[superpunk]

I honestly can't believe this thread has gone thi long, without....


Including the majestik møøse

A Møøse once bit my sister...

No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse
with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given
her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and
star of many Norwegian møvies: "The Høt Hands of an Oslo
Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Mølars of Horst
Nordfink"...

We apologise for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible have
been sacked.

Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti...

We apologise again for the fault in the subtitles. Those
responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked
have been sacked.

Møøse trained by YUTTE HERMSGERVØRDENBRØTBØRDA

Special Møøse Effects OLAF PROT
Møøse Costumes SIGGI CHURCHILL

Møøse Choreographed by HORST PROT III
Miss Taylor's Møøses by HENGST DOUGLAS-HOME
Møøse trained to mix concrete and sign
com plicated insurance forms by JURGEN WIGG

Møøses' noses wiped by BJØRN IRKESTØM-SLATER WALKER
Large møøse on the left hand side of the screen
in the third scene from the end, given a thorough
grounding in Latin, French and "O" Level
Geography by BO BENN
Suggestive poses for the Møøse suggested by VIC ROTTER
Antler-care by LIV THATCHER

The directors of the firm hired to continue the credits after the other
people had been sacked, wish it to be known that they have just been
sacked.
The credits have been completed in an entirely different style at
great expense and at the last minute.

[iceberg]

I honestly can't believe this thread has gone thi long, without....

now look, i'll have your leg!!!

[ABQCOWBOY]

Exhibition games are meaningless. And I really wish you could talk to some NFL execs. I don't think many worth much would agree on your assessment of "worthless games". But carry on.



I would but if you took the time to read what I said before, when you have a playoff spot clinched, that's worthless. Nice try, but you failed miserably.



:laugh2:

Now who is speculating? Have anything that confirms that Parcells only gave him a walk through?

I am not saying for one moment any game is worthless. Typically, this is another attempt by you to change things up. I said, exactly, the following, "The ones that are not going to get you any further in a race for a playoff spot. They are meaningless. It is a perfect opportunity to see what you have. At that point, you should be building for the following year". Meaningless and worthless are two different word, spelled two different ways, meaning two entirely different things. Perhaps while you are busy conversing with all of your various NFL Exec type contacts, you can discuss the differences in those two words and then we can pick this up where you've left it. Deal?

I suppose your asking me then to provide info on instances when losing teams played young players instead of vets? OK, I can do that to. Honestly, your sad. San Fran played Alex Smith last year to get experience late in the season. They were not in playoff contention. Cleveland played Charlie Frye late in the year, in order to get him experience. They were not in contention. Rex Grossman played very late in the season for Chicago. They did the same thing with him in 03 and again in 04. There are lots of examples of coaches trying to get playing time in for young players when the opportunity presents itself and I'm only listing QBs here. Says nothing of other position players.

I suppose I could insert a laugh or smile or what ever but to what end? It is clear to me that you are not willing to accept truth, even when it smacks you square between the eyes if it doesn't support your position.

What's the point?

[ABQCOWBOY]

And Henson was largely terrible and pulled at halftime.

What exactly did we learn about Henson playing with no prep time?

Exactly nothing.

Meanwhile it started a firestorm of criticsism and some journalists were already declaring out loud the Henson experiement was over.

How does this further your point?

Read the thread.

[ABQCOWBOY]

:laugh2:

Now who is speculating? Have anything that confirms that Parcells only gave him a walk through?


OK Al, your right. He got so much work in, he was practically overworked by the time the game rolled around. That's why he played so poorly.

Doesn't change the fact that Backup QBs are supposed to be ready to play without much prep at all. Go ahead and just tell me how the backup can't play unless they get a complete weeks worth of practice in. Tell me how it's in the rule book. Get a clue, that's the way it is for a backup QB.

[Alexander]

I am not saying for one moment any game is worthless. Typically, this is another attempt by you to change things up. I said, exactly, the following, "The ones that are not going to get you any further in a race for a playoff spot.

I am not changing a thing up. I stated my position over and over again. NFL coaches probably aren't likely to agree with you. Again, yours is the opinion of a fan. To quote Herm Edwards: You play to win the game.

Coach Parcells, I go with the player who gives me the best chance to win.

Winning is what this business is all about. Is mop duty for a backup going to help win in a game that means much of anything? That's why you don't see a variety of teams pulling their starters in favor of some backup, just to satisfy curiousity.

Dismiss what these two say, but to a coach, any one of the other 30 in the league probably would agree with them and not you.

Call it speculation or whatever you want. Your opinion is duly noted.

They are meaningless. It is a perfect opportunity to see what you have. At that point, you should be building for the following year". Meaningless and worthless are two different word, spelled two different ways, meaning two entirely different things. Perhaps while you are busy conversing with all of your various NFL Exec type contacts, you can discuss the differences in those two words and then we can pick this up where you've left it. Deal?

I don't have any contacts. I speak from what the coaches say. I don't peer into their glass foreheads and imagine agendas or assume stupidity on their part becaus they don't play a backup QB in a game they want to win. That's their job and I don't expect them to play to lose.

I suppose your asking me then to provide info on instances when losing teams played young players instead of vets? OK, I can do that to. Honestly, your sad. San Fran played Alex Smith last year to get experience late in the season. They were not in playoff contention. Cleveland played Charlie Frye late in the year, in order to get him experience. They were not in contention. Rex Grossman played very late in the season for Chicago. They did the same thing with him in 03 and again in 04. There are lots of examples of coaches trying to get playing time in for young players when the opportunity presents itself and I'm only listing QBs here. Says nothing of other position players.

You really expect me to believe that playing your franchise first overall pick in the draft is the same as playing Tony Romo? A first round pick in Chicago? A player in Frye who they had every intention of starting? These were all midseason moves intended to evaluate sure. These were also a series of games. You may lose one, two or even three, but by game four, you have accomplished your mission of evaluation. One game is not evaluating much of anything. But playing one game without preparation is a complete worthless endeavor. Not a one of these instances bear any resemblence to what we are talking about with Romo and you know it or are too stubborn to see it.

I suppose I could insert a laugh or smile or what ever but to what end? It is clear to me that you are not willing to accept truth, even when it smacks you square between the eyes if it doesn't support your position.

What's the point?

You may think it hit me square in the eyes, but you never even came close.

You are the one saying Henson got no preparation and used that to try and say it's okay for Romo in the Ram game. Did you just pull that out of thin air? I will assume you did since you are now dodging the question and asking me if I have a point.

[Alexander]

OK Al, your right. He got so much work in, he was practically overworked by the time the game rolled around. That's why he played so poorly.

Doesn't change the fact that Backup QBs are supposed to be ready to play without much prep at all. Go ahead and just tell me how the backup can't play unless they get a complete weeks worth of practice in. Tell me how it's in the rule book. Get a clue, that's the way it is for a backup QB.

Who is saying weeks?

But you need repetitions leading up to a game otherwise the whole point of evaluation is worthless.

That's like trying to evaluate a student just to do it by making them take a test when they haven't had much of a chance to study. Sure, they took the test. You got to see how much they sweat and how they go through the manual procedures of taking test. Now, when you grade it, what on earth could you possibly take out of it?

[ABQCOWBOY]

I am not changing a thing up. I stated my position over and over again. NFL coaches probably aren't likely to agree with you. Again, yours is the opinion of a fan. To quote Herm Edwards: You play to win the game.

Coach Parcells, I go with the player who gives me the best chance to win.

Winning is what this business is all about. Is mop duty for a backup going to help win in a game that means much of anything? That's why you don't see a variety of teams pulling their starters in favor of some backup, just to satisfy curiousity.

Dismiss what these two say, but to a coach, any one of the other 30 in the league probably would agree with them and not you.

Call it speculation or whatever you want. Your opinion is duly noted.



I don't have any contacts. I speak from what the coaches say. I don't peer into their glass foreheads and imagine agendas or assume stupidity on their part becaus they don't play a backup QB in a game they want to win. That's their job and I don't expect them to play to lose.



You really expect me to believe that playing your franchise first overall pick in the draft is the same as playing Tony Romo? A first round pick in Chicago? A player in Frye who they had every intention of starting? These were all midseason moves intended to evaluate sure. But playing one game without preparation is a worthless endeavor. Not a one of these instances bear any resemblence to what we are talking about with Romo and you know it or are too stubborn to see it.



You may think it hit me square in the eyes, but you never even came close.

You are the one saying Henson got no preparation and used that to try and say it's okay for Romo in the Ram game. Did you just pull that out of thin air? I will assume you did since you are now dodging the question and asking me if I have a point.

So how do you explain the 3 examples I just gave you? I can give you more. It won't be real hard at all. Those coaches just don't know a damn thing about the game? There just "Fans" as opposed to real coaches? Clearly, they don't fit into your opinion of what and how young QBs should be worked. It would seem that it is not just my opinion. Note that.

Whatever you say Al. Personally, I doubt you can distinguish the difference between square between the eyes and points south on your anatomy.

No, you speak from quotes from one coach. Clearly, those are not the only opinions of how to do it in the NFL. I have already shown you that other coaches do it differently.

To be honest with you Al, I expect very little from you. Having said that, it happens. It doesn't matter if it's a number one pick or a mid round pick or an FA. I could probably give you examples of any of those situations. The opportunity was there to see if any one of our back up QBs could do something. Clearly, we threw Henson to the wolves, if you will, on Thanksgiving. Why then is it such a poor decision to see what Romo might have been able to do in a game that ment nothing? BTW, they were not Mid Season moves but they were intended to evaluate. That part is a true statment.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Who is saying weeks?

But you need repetitions leading up to a game otherwise the whole point of evaluation is worthless.

That's like trying to evaluate a student just to do it by making them take a test when they haven't had much of a chance to study. Sure, they took the test. You got to see how much they sweat and how they go through the manual procedures of taking test. Now, when you grade it, what on earth could you possibly take out of it?

This is not true. Some QBs have a right mentality to be back ups. Some don't. There is nothing at all wrong with putting in a QB to see how they react under pressure. BP has certainly done it, through out his career, with other QBs. At some point, you have to give them an opportunity. If by the time a guy is not ready to take a few snaps in his 4th year into the program, when is he going to be ready?

[ABQCOWBOY]

You are the one saying Henson got no preparation and used that to try and say it's okay for Romo in the Ram game. Did you just pull that out of thin air? I will assume you did since you are now dodging the question and asking me if I have a point.


Call it what you will. Fact remains that Henson did not get proper preperation to start that game. Even if I'm generous, he might have gotten one half speed practice in. In a short week like that, teams don't hit. It's more likely they used the time to put in the game plan for the opposing team. Having said that, lets just say he got in one practice and a walk through. To you, I'm sure that's more then enough for Henson but for Romo, it's not fair to throw him out there? If Bledsoe were injured in the 1st quarter, he'd have to be ready to play. How can it not be OK for him to get time if nothing is on the line? But it's OK if it's Henson right? OK, I get it.

For reference only, I'm not asking you if you have a point. I'm telling you that it's pointless to explain it to you. I imagine you can see the difference.

[Alexander]

So how do you explain the 3 examples I just gave you?

I answered you.

But since you didn't read, here it is again:

You really expect me to believe that playing your franchise first overall pick in the draft is the same as playing Tony Romo? A first round pick in Chicago? A player in Frye who they had every intention of starting? These were all midseason moves intended to evaluate sure. These were also a series of games. You may lose one, two or even three, but by game four, you have accomplished your mission of evaluation. One game is not evaluating much of anything. But playing one game without preparation is a complete worthless endeavor. Not a one of these instances bear any resemblence to what we are talking about with Romo and you know it or are too stubborn to see it.


I can give you more.

More what? Examples that aren't close in comparison?

It won't be real hard at all. Those coaches just don't know a damn thing about the game? There just "Fans" as opposed to real coaches? Clearly, they don't fit into your opinion of what and how young QBs should be worked. It would seem that it is not just my opinion. Note that.

Noted, but only if it had any comparison to what Romo's case is. It doesn't.

No, you speak from quotes from one coach. Clearly, those are not the only opinions of how to do it in the NFL. I have already shown you that other coaches do it differently.

You showed me how coaches take a midseason move or even a move in week 12 and try to pawn that off as the same thing as starting your green UDFA QB (or one rusty after a layoff of years) in one game. Please.

To be honest with you Al, I expect very little from you.


Likewise.

All I can count on from you is a lack of reading comprehension and an insistance to stick to your impression even if it has next to nothing to do with the case at hand. That's poor debating.

Why then is it such a poor decision to see what Romo might have been able to do in a game that ment nothing? BTW, they were not Mid Season moves but they were intended to evaluate. That part is a true statment.

We aren't talking about the necessity to evaluate. Of course you want to evaluate. But it doesn't do any good whatsoever to evaluate off of one game and when the player had no preparation.

In the case of Frye, Grossman and Smith all three were named "starters" and given the repetitions due to a starter in the weeks leading up to their games. Seneca Wallace? That was a game that indeed was worthless and fits the profile of a worthless game because the Seahawks had no reason to win because they were already in the playoffs and again, I doubt Holmgren threw him out there with just a "walk through". That's how Jim Sorgi has more playing time in his career than Romo, its because the Colts were good enough to be able to afford to play him. When we start clinching playoff spots, then you can have all the worthless games you want and Coach Parcells would probably insert all the inexperienced QBs to make the fanbase happy.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I answered you.

But since you didn't read, here it is again:





More what? Examples that aren't close in comparison?



Noted, but only if it had any comparison to what Romo's case is. It doesn't.



You showed me how coaches take a midseason move or even a move in week 12 and try to pawn that off as the same thing as starting your green UDFA QB (or one rusty after a layoff of years) in one game. Please.



Likewise.

All I can count on from you is a lack of reading comprehension and an insistance to stick to your impression even if it has next to nothing to do with the case at hand. That's poor debating.



We aren't talking about the necessity to evaluate. Of course you want to evaluate. But it doesn't do any good whatsoever to evaluate off of one game and when the player had no preparation.

In the case of Frye, Grossman and Smith all three were named "starters" and given the repetitions due to a starter in the weeks leading up to their games. Seneca Wallace? That was a game that indeed was worthless and fits the profile of a worthless game because the Seahawks had no reason to win because they were already in the playoffs and again, I doubt Holmgren threw him out there with just a "walk through". That's how Jim Sorgi has more playing time in his career than Romo, its because the Colts were good enough to be able to afford to play him. When we start clinching playoff spots, then you can have all the worthless games you want and Coach Parcells would probably insert all the inexperienced QBs to make the fanbase happy.


Amazing how mid season move now suddenly becomes week 12. I imagine that's what you ment the whole time right?

I guess we can go around and around all day on this. Lets not. The truth is that BackUp QBs are expected to be ready to go at a moments notice. The backup may hot get all the reps but they get all the game plan. Coaches do play backups to get them work in situations where nothing is on the line. You can say all you like that all of these guys were expected to be starters but what of a guy like Ken Dorsey in San Francisco? He was not ever going to be the starter there but they played him when opportunity was there to do so. They wanted to see what they had. What of Matt Cassel in New England? Brady was healthy the whole year. Flutie was the back up and yet, Cassel, the third string QB who will never be expected to start over Brady, got playing time in two different contests. One in the 4th game of the season, where nothing was decided yet and also in a lossing cause against Miami. I would add that New England finished one game ahead of Miami to win the division. I can find more if I really look.

[big dog cowboy]

And Henson was largely terrible and pulled at halftime.

What exactly did we learn about Henson playing with no prep time?

Exactly nothing.
Exactly right. But some people believe that was his chance to show us something. Whatever.

[jackrussell]

actually, JR - all i want and would hope for is some acknowledgement that i could be right that actual game time is valuable to the QB and to help evaluate what the player can do.

So all you want is an acknowledgement, yet, you want Parcell's job for not taking the opportunity to play him. You have in fact said that you haven't liked BP since the 3 game stretch of 'meaningless' games in which he didn't play Henson. (let's see, meaningless games would give us what, meaningful results?) Of course playing time will help in evaluation, our difference is you have deemed it NECESSARY, and more to the point ,for you to see, and I have not at this point. I've already stated in this thread that I feel it's no big deal, and I truly don't think it is.

yet every time i say that you're there to tell me i'm wrong as if there is *only* right or wrong and i'm just stupid about this. at least that's how it's coming across - 'berg bad, 'berg, stupid. whole idea stupid... nowhere do you ever even say "yea, it "could" help even if only a little. i understand you may disagree but that alone doens't make you right and me wrong. well, not to me anyway but to you i sure seem to be wrong.

Poor poor persecuted Icey. Your perception doesn't neccessarily equate to the reality. Now while it may be true that "nowhere do you ever even say "yea, it "could" help even if only a little", that's a 2 way street. I've noticed that nowhere do you ever even say that BP has a grasp of Henson's abilitiies or inabilities without seeing garbage time in a meaningless game. That it is entirely possible that they could see him not make necessary check downs in 7 on 7s let alone in a game time situation.

also - if you're gonna follow me around and tell me how wrong i am, please also understand i don't care if henson OR romo got that time - i just view it as wasted time, NOT a henson apology.

Yes I am following you around, and I know where you live and am waiting for just the right time!:rolleyes: Paranoia settin' in there Jer?

as for "showcasing for my approval" - why do you feel that's what i'm after? i've said time and again *I* just feel that time would have been better spent on qb evaluation than trying to win 7 vs. 8 games that season. if you disagree fine but i recall you've gotten upset with me before when i'd take such a hard stance on *your* views. now when i'm trying to find that middle ground, it just doesn't seem to be there in return. you seem hellbent on trying to make me look foolish for my own views. isn't that what got you upset w/*me* awhile back?

And again, *I* don't feel like a one game is going to tell anyone anything they already do or do not know. And no, it wasn't the hard stance as you put it, it's the 'one thing is right for Ice but it's different for anyone else.' An example would be SilverBear's story is good and relevant, JR's story is bad and irrelevant. Another example is I've seen you as a self described one of the most argumentive people in this forum, yet, dressed me down as the most argumentive poster in your forum. Good for Ice, baaaad for JR.

I realy don't understand why you're so heck bent on the issue. You've already said that even if Dallas were to win the Super Bowl this year, you still wouldn't be happy. So what's the point?

[iceberg]

So all you want is an acknowledgement, yet, you want Parcell's job for not taking the opportunity to play him. You have in fact said that you haven't liked BP since the 3 game stretch of 'meaningless' games in which he didn't play Henson. (let's see, meaningless games would give us what, meaningful results?) Of course playing time will help in evaluation, our difference is you have deemed it NECESSARY, and more to the point ,for you to see, and I have not at this point. I've already stated in this thread that I feel it's no big deal, and I truly don't think it is.



Poor poor persecuted Icey. Your perception doesn't neccessarily equate to the reality. Now while it may be true that "nowhere do you ever even say "yea, it "could" help even if only a little", that's a 2 way street. I've noticed that nowhere do you ever even say that BP has a grasp of Henson's abilitiies or inabilities without seeing garbage time in a meaningless game. That it is entirely possible that they could see him not make necessary check downs in 7 on 7s let alone in a game time situation.



Yes I am following you around, and I know where you live and am waiting for just the right time!:rolleyes: Paranoia settin' in there Jer?



And again, *I* don't feel like a one game is going to tell anyone anything they already do or do not know. And no, it wasn't the hard stance as you put it, it's the 'one thing is right for Ice but it's different for anyone else.' An example would be SilverBear's story is good and relevant, JR's story is bad and irrelevant. Another example is I've seen you as a self described one of the most argumentive people in this forum, yet, dressed me down as the most argumentive poster in your forum. Good for Ice, baaaad for JR.

I realy don't understand why you're so heck bent on the issue. You've already said that even if Dallas were to win the Super Bowl this year, you still wouldn't be happy. So what's the point?

except i'm not trying to start an argument, jr. i'm not even trying to be in one. and now - you *say* i'm dressing you down as THE MOST argumentative poster? what am i supposed to do when you just start making stuff up, jr? either that or show me where i said that.

"poor persecuted icey..." - again, lots of sarcasm at my expense. : ) i just try to be civil and raise a point and you just throw sarcasm back at me.

fine. you win. i guess the only way i can prove to you i'm not arguing with you is to just quit talking to you when you've got this "slap down the berg" mode going on.

[Bob Sacamano]

And you are proving my point with your post, on the second paragraph. I am not sure what point you are trying make with that second statement? Or you are contradicting yourself?

I'm actually in agreement w/ both you and Alexander, if coaches couldn't tell by the performance of their QBs, by charting them in practice, they would give up the process, but on the otherhand, practice will only tell you so much, as the pace is MUCh slower than a real live game, and you don't know what the opposition is going to throw at you by practicing against your own D


He might have better idea than any of us, but its still up in the air. Thats why he obviously clings to his old Qbs.

I don't understand, if you're saying Parcells doesn't know about his QBs, from watching them in practice, then he must not know about the rest of the players at different positions then, that they're up in the air too, I certainly hope you're not saying that

[Bob Sacamano]

Who is saying weeks?

But you need repetitions leading up to a game otherwise the whole point of evaluation is worthless.

exactly, and look at the practice snaps Henson has had to work with, he's had to share 20% of them with Romo because Bledsoe was taking the rest

[Bob Sacamano]

Call it what you will. Fact remains that Henson did not get proper preperation to start that game.

if Henson didn't get the proper preparation, why did Parcells start him? remember this phrase, "you don't practice, you don't play" ?

[silverbear]

I am a terrible speller, so I will make my apoligy and leave it at that. On occasion, I can laugh at myself right along with the rest of the world.

;)

Not to worry, it was funny... I only rag on trolls when they misuse the English language, and you're not a troll...

[jackrussell]

except i'm not trying to start an argument, jr. i'm not even trying to be in one. and now - you *say* i'm dressing you down as THE MOST argumentative poster? what am i supposed to do when you just start making stuff up, jr? either that or show me where i said that.

Whoa now. Read it again. It didn't say that, and you know it.

After you read it again, you tell me who is making things up.

again, lots of sarcasm at my expense. : ) i just try to be civil and raise a point and you just throw sarcasm back at me.

Oh please, that's pretty fresh coming from someone that uses 'Senior Smart***' in his identity.

[iceberg]

Whoa now. Read it again. It didn't say that, and you know it.

After you read it again, you tell me who is making things up.

Oh please, that's pretty fresh coming from someone that uses 'Senior Smart***' in his identity.

i said:
Originally Posted by iceberg
except i'm not trying to start an argument, jr. i'm not even trying to be in one. and now - you *say* i'm dressing you down as THE MOST argumentative poster? what am i supposed to do when you just start making stuff up, jr? either that or show me where i said that.

you refuted this with:
Whoa now. Read it again. It didn't say that, and you know it.
After you read it again, you tell me who is making things up.


what you said that i made this statement from:
Another example is I've seen you as a self described one of the most argumentive people in this forum, yet, dressed me down as the most argumentive poster in your forum. Good for Ice, baaaad for JR.

so, you say i dressed you down as the most argumentative poster, i commented on that and asked you to show me where *i* said this, then all of a sudden you never said it.

you win jack. but for someone who kinda tore into me once before (and rightfully so) for my lack of "give" on another persons views politically, you're sure not giving me any room for my views here.

shine that trophy up, jack. i hope it's pretty.

[jackrussell]

i said:
Originally Posted by iceberg
except i'm not trying to start an argument, jr. i'm not even trying to be in one. and now - you *say* i'm dressing you down as THE MOST argumentative poster? what am i supposed to do when you just start making stuff up, jr? either that or show me where i said that.

you refuted this with:
Whoa now. Read it again. It didn't say that, and you know it.
After you read it again, you tell me who is making things up.


what you said that i made this statement from:
Another example is I've seen you as a self described one of the most argumentive people in this forum, yet, dressed me down as the most argumentive poster in your forum. Good for Ice, baaaad for JR.

so, you say i dressed you down as the most argumentative poster, i commented on that and asked you to show me where *i* said this, then all of a sudden you never said it.

you win jack. but for someone who kinda tore into me once before (and rightfully so) for my lack of "give" on another persons views politically, you're sure not giving me any room for my views here.

shine that trophy up, jack. i hope it's pretty.

Jerry Jerry Jerry. Does tense mean anything at all to you in your world? If you read it a few more times, PERHAPS it can sink in, but I'm not holding my breath.

Word for word, here we go, hold my hand, we can do this together....."Another example is I've seen you as a self described"

I've seen= I have= past tense= meaning in the past, you have described yourself as potentially the most arguementive poster in (let's be very clear on this) THIS forum. THIS= CowboysZone.

yet,dressed=once again, PAST tense, meaning, at one time in the past, you had dressedme down as the most argumentive poster in(again, let's be very clear on this, the most important one, hold on, here we go!) YOUR forum. YOUR= Detox

Now, how in this world, or yours, does that equate to you saying, in the PRESENT tense, "and now - you *say* i'm dressing you down as THE MOST argumentative poster."

It doesn't. But once again, nice try in putting your words in someone else's mouth.

[iceberg]

Jerry Jerry Jerry. Does tense mean anything at all to you in your world? If you read it a few more times, PERHAPS it can sink in, but I'm not holding my breath.

Word for word, here we go, hold my hand, we can do this together....."Another example is I've seen you as a self described"

I've seen= I have= past tense= meaning in the past, you have described yourself as potentially the most arguementive poster in (let's be very clear on this) THIS forum. THIS= CowboysZone.

yet,dressed=once again, PAST tense, meaning, at one time in the past, you had dressedme down as the most argumentive poster in(again, let's be very clear on this, the most important one, hold on, here we go!) YOUR forum. YOUR= Detox

Now, how in this world, or yours, does that equate to you saying, in the PRESENT tense, "and now - you *say* i'm dressing you down as THE MOST argumentative poster."

It doesn't. But once again, nice try in putting your words in someone else's mouth.

whatever.

[jackrussell]

whatever.

How typical of you. Some things never change.

[iceberg]

How typical of you. Some things never change.

what would you like for me to do, jack? i've tried to understand, tried to be reasonable, tried to get what you were saying - yet any time i say anything at all it only sets you up to "attack" and i'm just tired of it. if thinking i'm that bad a person is that important to you i can't stop you. but i do find it ironic as hell that when you talked to me about being open to other alternatives, you've spent the last few days beating the hell out of me for mine. since this is a "no win" no sense in playing anymore.

and that makes me a bad person.

got it, moving on now.

[RCowboyFan]

I'm actually in agreement w/ both you and Alexander, if coaches couldn't tell by the performance of their QBs, by charting them in practice, they would give up the process, but on the otherhand, practice will only tell you so much, as the pace is MUCh slower than a real live game, and you don't know what the opposition is going to throw at you by practicing against your own D




I don't understand, if you're saying Parcells doesn't know about his QBs, from watching them in practice, then he must not know about the rest of the players at different positions then, that they're up in the air too, I certainly hope you're not saying that

Come on Summer, don't be equating QB position to rest of the positions. You should know that by now. You can be all world in TC and even pre-season and stink it up in regular season. Remember Leaf out played Peyton initially in pre-season? Heck Stoerner used to be pretty good in pre-season and heck played pretty well in few games, till his stinker in Meadowland.

I clearly said, obviously BP has better idea than any of us yahoos on the internet. Having said that, I am pretty sure, he is not 100% certain either, if he was, he wouldn't be saying, hum and haw about where his backup QBs are in their development.

Heck BP says about every position the same thing. He doesn't know till they are in real game situations how they will develop.

[iceberg]

Come on Summer, don't be equating QB position to rest of the positions. You should know that by now. You can be all world in TC and even pre-season and stink it up in regular season. Remember Leaf out played Peyton initially in pre-season? Heck Stoerner used to be pretty good in pre-season and heck played pretty well in few games, till his stinker in Meadowland.

I clearly said, obviously BP has better idea than any of us yahoos on the internet. Having said that, I am pretty sure, he is not 100% certain either, if he was, he wouldn't be saying, hum and haw about where his backup QBs are in their development.

Heck BP says about every position the same thing. He doesn't know till they are in real game situations how they will develop.

does bill really say this? 'cause that's what i've been saying for quite some time and i've been plastered lately 'cause bill must know w/o having to see them in a real game - why am i so bullheaded..."

now THAT would be ironic. : )

[wileedog]

does bill really say this? 'cause that's what i've been saying for quite some time and i've been plastered lately 'cause bill must know w/o having to see them in a real game - why am i so bullheaded..."

now THAT would be ironic. : )

No, you're getting plastered because along with this Bill never, ever puts a player on the field in a position to fail - even for "evaluation purposes."

And he never puts a player before the team, or before winning a game.

If you're going to use Bill's philosophies to bolster you're argument, at least be consistent and use all of them - don't cherry pick the one's that suit your purpose.

[iceberg]

No, you're getting plastered because along with this Bill never, ever puts a player on the field in a position to fail - even for "evaluation purposes."

And he never puts a player before the team, or before winning a game.

If you're going to use Bill's philosophies to bolster you're argument, at least be consistent and use all of them - don't cherry pick the one's that suit your purpose.

now did i oir did i NOT *ASK* if this is what bill said?

why did i ask? CAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW!!!!

jeez people - then you come in here and act as if i'm quoting bill when i'm only FREAKING ASKING ABOUT IT!

and *i'm* picking fights.

[Austin28]

I'm waiting until we see how training camp and preseason goes before I give up on Henson. I, and I know I'm not the only one, think he had a good NFLE season. It'll be interesting to see what the people who are against him do if Henson wins the 2nd string job.

But it's been clear to me ever since Parcells yanked him from the thanksgiving game that Parcells either doesn't see it in him...or that he's playing severe mind games with him (which Parcells likes to do to some players). But I don't think Parcells is a good judge of QBs. RBs, heck yes.

What do ya know? Old old-one look Willie never did impress Parcells too much. You've gotta be disappointed that the hype never panned out. And Lord there was a LOT of hype.

What a wasted pick. Oh well though, maybe he'll be worth some enterntainment; perhaps he can honk his nose for everyone on his way out.

Good riddance.

[Austin28]

Jean-Jacques Taylor: Henson project could be sacked

Drew Henson's days in Dallas are numbered. That might be a good thing.

During last week's minicamp, coach Bill Parcells said he wasn't that impressed with Henson's performance in NFL Europe. Tony Romo has clearly passed Henson on the depth chart, and as long as Parcells is the head coach – of course that might only be for one more season – then Henson isn't going to move on the depth chart.

If this is true and I don't see why anyone would see otherwise...This is why he's such a Nozzle!

Henson could be the Second coming of Aikman...But we'll never know because Parcells has already made up his mind and we all know he's never wrong.
Watch Henson play. THE GUY CANNOT READ THE FIELD!!! He stares down one reciever the whole time and then tries to throw it with mediocre strength and accuracy.

He's a horrible QB that just doesn't have it upstairs; a circus clown. Parcells knows this.

[kartr]

Maybe you ought to watch the game again, because I doubt Henson fumbled on his first snap because they were on loose coverage.

They were blitzing pretty well. But I think Chicago had game film on Henson and were prepared to play him, rather than Baltimore, who were really prepared to play only Vinny.

As far as second statement, I am sure Saints saw plenty of Jake Delhomme in practice and even in couple games, yet they, in their all their wisdom thought, Aaron Brooks was the better QB. So much for knowing by watching practices.

Both the guys you mention, are first rounders, with lot of money invested and they are usually pushed to play, much like J.P. Losman even if they suck in or not the best in Practice or Akili Smith etc.. In fact, there were many reports that Palmer wasn't the best player in practice and Kitna was when they decided to start him. Same with every year we keep hearing how Byron Leftwitch is outperformed in Practice by his backup, yet Leftwitch is the guy starting and might also add, indeed is the better QB.

So your argument is not really valid about practices always proving that a player can play. Heck, we all know Ben wasn't so hot in Pittsburgh when he started with obvious statements from players.

Not that I am totally disagreeing with you, but examples you gave are not good ones though.

Not really, to compare Henson and Romo to first round calibre qb's is a whole nother story. Parcells said that the reason he took Henson out of the Bear game was that he was missing some simple stuff, that told him that Henson was way in over his head, plus he really didn't want to play Henson anyway.

[jackrussell]

what would you like for me to do, jack? i've tried to understand, tried to be reasonable, tried to get what you were saying - yet any time i say anything at all it only sets you up to "attack" and i'm just tired of it. if thinking i'm that bad a person is that important to you i can't stop you. but i do find it ironic as hell that when you talked to me about being open to other alternatives, you've spent the last few days beating the hell out of me for mine. since this is a "no win" no sense in playing anymore.

and that makes me a bad person.

got it, moving on now.

Yes, the history of the Ice, don't agree with him and you're attacking. This is so predictable. You try this, you try that, and it's nothing of the sort. Another predictable thing is your insertion of words that someone doesn't say, claim it as fact, and expect that person to defend it. Ahhh yes, Senior also expects sarcasm only to be given on his end, but never aimed at him. That's a big no no, he shall let you know when you may be sarcastic.

And we never spoke of alternative thinking. It was your brow beating absent of the truth is what we talked about. And THAT is what hasn't changed one bit, as evident from this thread.

[kartr]

Kinda shot your own argument in the foot there, no?

Not really, Brooks was a proven commodity in real games, while Delhomme was not. Brooks,despite the hate he's given has had a very productive career, it's not his fault that he doesn't have better receivers or that his rb has been banged up the last couple of years or Hurricane Katrina or his bad defense. It wouldn't surpise me if Brooks does very well in Oakland with that supporting cast..

[iceberg]

Yes, the history of the Ice, don't agree with him and you're attacking. This is so predictable. You try this, you try that, and it's nothing of the sort. Another predictable thing is your insertion of words that someone doesn't say, claim it as fact, and expect that person to defend it. Ahhh yes, Senior also expects sarcasm only to be given on his end, but never aimed at him. That's a big no no, he shall let you know when you may be sarcastic.

And we never spoke of alternative thinking. It was your brow beating absent of the truth is what we talked about. And THAT is what hasn't changed one bit, as evident from this thread.

um, ok.