Greg Ellis Trade?

[BigDDynasty]

I heard something on Sirius NFL Channel at the very last moment concerning Elliss and a Cornerback? I think it was Kirwan I believe.....What was the deal?

[TheKey]

I wouldnt trade Ellis for a CB unless it was someone excellent like Dunta Robinson

[Alexander]

I wouldnt trade Ellis for a CB unless it was someone excellent like Dunta Robinson

I would trade him for a solid third cornerback. Glenn doesn't have much longer and we might be moving Reeves to safety.

[parchy]

I wouldnt trade Ellis for a CB unless it was someone excellent like Dunta Robinson

And there's not a chance of that happening.

I thought Ellis wasn't going anywhere until he skipped out on OTAs. I think all bets are off at this point, although getting a guy like Dunta straight up is pretty much out of the question.

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd seriously trade Ellis for anything at this moment

[Bob Sacamano]

getting a guy like Dunta straight up is pretty much out of the question.

seriously, teams now know if we're entertaining Ellis in a trade, that we're planning on releasing him

[Alexander]

And there's not a chance of that happening.

I thought Ellis wasn't going anywhere until he skipped out on OTAs. I think all bets are off at this point, although getting a guy like Dunta straight up is pretty much out of the question.

This is another case where we overvalue "our" player and undervalue "theirs".

Ellis for Philip Buchanon anyone?

[Yeagermeister]

Ellis for Ed Reed? :D

[austintodallas]

Who could use somenoe like Ellis, Denver? Who are their CB's other than Champ?

[BigDDynasty]

I think Elliss could get us something fairly decent......It will mean our D-Line will have to mature quicker also.

[Alexander]

Ellis for Ed Reed? :D

What else are the Ravens offering? I mean, if they threw in Terrell Suggs, that sounds fair.:cool:

[superpunk]

Is there any chance we could get a ham sandwich and a bag of doritos?

I'm starving.

[Bob Sacamano]

I think Elliss could get us something fairly decent......

a conditional 6th is decent?

[stilltheguru]

ellis for bruce thornton?lol


we shouldve never kept nate jones.tried to tell yall bruce was pretty good.*pats self on the back*:cool:

[Alexander]

Who could use somenoe like Ellis, Denver? Who are their CB's other than Champ?

Domonique Foxworth and Darrent Williams. Both would be great in exchange for a 30-something.

[Bob Sacamano]

What else are the Ravens offering? I mean, if they threw in Terrell Suggs, that sounds fair.:cool:

plus the 3rd round pick, we'd have to throw in a 7th of course

[Alexander]

plus the 3rd round pick, we'd have to throw in a 7th of course

I'd make it a sixth if they threw in Mark Clayton.

[Yeagermeister]

What else are the Ravens offering? I mean, if they threw in Terrell Suggs, that sounds fair.:cool:
Oh please don't start the Suggs posts again :banghead:

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd make it a sixth if they threw in Mark Clayton.

DEAL! the Ravens would be stupid to pass this up

[AbeBeta]

I think the team takes a hard line on Ellis. You simply can't throw 8 sacks out the door.

[TonyS]

Now is the time to trade Ellis. It doesn't mean we'll be releasing him, it just means we want the headache out of Dallas and want something for him.

If we can't get a trade, he'll shutup and play. Dallas hasn't been real good at getting trades for players in the past and we've let some potential trade opportunities leave.

Hopefully, if we are entertaining trade options, there are some good player names floating around.

[Bob Sacamano]

I think the team takes a hard line on Ellis. You simply can't throw 8 sacks out the door.

I think they already are, by not trading him, I don't think Dallas is looking into that possibility

not yet at least

[BigDDynasty]

He is being such a little ! I think we gotta find a trade, the sooner, the better to get rid of the distraction. Did anyone else hear what i am talking about though(Sirius comments on Elliss)??

[Waffle]

Why do we keep talking about an Ellis trade? Jerry and Bill have both said he is not going anywhere. His salary is relatively cheap for player of his caliber and Ellis has already said that he will not hold out. Unless he turns into a jerk or distraction, all this trade talk is wishful thinking in my view.

[austintodallas]

Why do we keep talking about an Ellis trade? Jerry and Bill have both said he is not going anywhere. His salary is relatively cheap for player of his caliber and Ellis has already said that he will not hold out. Unless he turns into a jerk or distraction, all this trade talk is wishful thinking in my view.Apparently someone just heard mention on Sirius of a possible trade happening.

[Bob Sacamano]

Apparently someone just heard mention on Sirius of a possible trade happening.

didn't Sirius report about a Ellis trade last offseason? to Denver I think, and how someone in the New Orleans organization heard about it?

[BigDDynasty]

I heard the last of it, and wondered if anyone caught the whole thing? It was about an hour ago....Kirwan was speaking about Elliss for a corner and a draft pick....

[stilltheguru]

people are being too harsh on greg.if you put yourself in his shoes you would do the same thing.



he is not going to have an oppurtunity to play that much this year so when they do cut him next year who is going to want to pay him what he is worth?NOBODY

he wants to play so he can show his potential suitors next year what he can still do.or give him some more money in dallas and keep him in the rotation.its all about financial stability and i dont blame him one bit for doing this.

yall have alot of nerve bashing him like this.

*awaits the hate coming my way*

[Bob Sacamano]

I heard the last of it, and wondered if anyone caught the whole thing? It was about an hour ago....Kirwan was speaking about Elliss for a corner and a draft pick....

probably some 4th string corner and a 6th

[iceberg]

What else are the Ravens offering? I mean, if they threw in Terrell Suggs, that sounds fair.:cool:

we'll need their 1st and maybe 2nd round pick next year also.

[Waffle]

Apparently someone just heard mention on Sirius of a possible trade happening.

I wasn't listening to Sirius today, but I would bet Kirwan was merely speculating about what player/position the Cowboys might look at getting if for some reason they decided to trade Ellis.

I was just pointing out that the Cowboys have repeatedly stated he isn't going anywhere. At his salary, I don't blame them.

[InmanRoshi]

people are being too harsh on greg.if you put yourself in his shoes you would do the same thing.

No, I wouldn't. And there are countless numbers of NFL players, on this team and others, who are in his shoes who aren't doing the same thing. Al Singleton is in his shoes, and he's spending his honeymoon at practice this week while Ellis is enjoying his publicity jaunt.

Since its common knowledge that Greg Ellis is one of the top 10 players at his position, I assume we're going to get a Top 10 CB in return.

[Alexander]

I wasn't listening to Sirius today, but I would bet Kirwan was merely speculating about what player/position the Cowboys might look at getting if for some reason they decided to trade Ellis.

I was just pointing out that the Cowboys have repeatedly stated he isn't going anywhere. At his salary, I don't blame them.

And he speculated CB.

Well, since it's probably our deepest position on defense, I guess that makes perfect sense.

[iceberg]

And he speculated CB.

Well, since it's probably our deepest position on defense, I guess that makes perfect sense.

if it has to happen, pay attention to the OL for a change, bill!!!!

[Bob Sacamano]

if it has to happen, pay attention to the OL for a change, bill!!!!

Ellis for Tom Nalen and a 3rd!

[Rudy]

Top 10 player at his position??? I hope you're kidding.

[Vintage]

And he speculated CB.

Well, since it's probably our deepest position on defense, I guess that makes perfect sense.

:laugh1:

Whatever you do, don't stop posting until 4:30 Central time.

Its when I get off work.

[Big Dakota]

No, I wouldn't. And there are countless numbers of NFL players, on this team and others, who are in his shoes who aren't doing the same thing. Al Singleton is in his shoes, and he's spending his honeymoon at practice this week while Ellis is enjoying his publicity jaunt.

Since its common knowledge that Greg Ellis is one of the top 10 players at his position, I assume we're going to get a Top 10 CB in return.

Dang good point. The only bellyaching going on by any player last year or this year is by the team "standup guy" Ellis. :mad:

[AbeBeta]

And he speculated CB.

Well, since it's probably our deepest position on defense, I guess that makes perfect sense.

It makes sense since these are the folks saying our CB position is a big question mark

[Bob Sacamano]

It makes sense since these are the folks saying our CB position is a big question mark

:lmao2:

[SA_Gunslinger]

i didn't think so at all until today....but now i'm calling it.

we trade him before training camp.

he's almost forcing us to. that's gonna leave a big gap on the defensive front, though. unless we trade for someone else on the DL, of course.



but no way parcells wants this drama AND t.o. drama together.
bye bye ellis.

[BigDDynasty]

but no way parcells wants this drama AND t.o. drama together.
bye bye ellis.

AMEN...

[dbair1967]

Top 10 player at his position??? I hope you're kidding.

no, he isnt...can you name 10 4-3 LDE's better than him?

If you think you can please do so, we all need some amusement..

the guy is one of the better all around DE's in football but because he was drafted here, by Jones and instead of that loser team cancer Moss, everyone throws Ellis under the bus

its pretty stupid IMO...the guys been a great player for us for years...and he's been an INCREDIBLE bargain when you look at his production vs his cap charges...

David

[Alexander]

no, he isnt...can you name 10 4-3 LDE's better than him?

Nice to see you narrow it down by including the LEFT DE addition.

That's pretty slick.

[dbair1967]

Nice to see you narrow it down by including the LEFT DE addition.

That's pretty slick.

its the positon he plays isnt it? not really slick, just the truth

David

[Bob Sacamano]

I could name 10 better DEs, not LDEs though :(

but all in all, Ellis wasn't worth the 8th overall selection we invested in him, and Moss wasn't the only good player we passed up that would have been more worthy of the selection

[dbair1967]

but all in all, Ellis wasn't worth the 8th overall selection we invested in him, and Moss wasn't the only good player we passed up that would have been more worthy of the selection

really, like who would have been more worthy? This list has been posted numerous times, and there werent alot of great players picked in the 1st rd of the 98 draft, especially after the 8th pick

and Ellis has certainly been a better player than both the DE's picked ahead of him (Wadsworth who was a huge bust and Wistrom)

David

[Yeagermeister]

Ellis for Ogden? :D


*ducks for cover*

[Bob Sacamano]

really, like who would have been more worthy? This list has been posted numerous times, and there werent alot of great players picked in the 1st rd of the 98 draft, especially after the 8th pick

and Ellis has certainly been a better player than both the DE's picked ahead of him (Wadsworth who was a huge bust and Wistrom)

David

ok, fine, we passed up Moss for him

[InmanRoshi]

Many DE's are moved around on the left side and the right side and back and forth in persuit of a favorable matchup. So there are very few DE's who can be considered "True left DE's". Its not hard to end up as one of the top 10 in your pos ition when there are only 15 who meet the criteria.

I'm quite certain Greg Ellis is probably the best DE in the NFL who has the initials GE and who played at the university of North Carolina. Name me one better.

[dbair1967]

ok, fine, we passed up Moss for him

lots of teams passed on that loser Moss, not just us

but here you go...like I was saying:

8 Dallas Greg Ellis DE North Carolina
9 Jacksonville Fred Taylor RB Florida
10 Baltimore Duane Starks CB Miami
11 Philadelphia Tra Thomas T Florida State
12 Atlanta Keith Brooking OLB Georgia Tech
13 Cincinnati Takeo Spikes OLB Auburn
14 Carolina Jason Peter DE Nebraska
15 Seattle Anthony Simmons OLB Clemson
16 Tennessee Kevin Dyson WR Utah
17 Cincinnati Brian Simmons OLB North Carolina
18 New England Robert Edwards RB Georgia
19 Green Bay Vonnie Holliday DT North Carolina
20 Detroit Terry Fair CB Tennessee
21 Minnesota Randy Moss WR Marshall
22 New England Tebucky Jones SS Syracuse
23 Oakland Mo Collins G Florida
24 N.Y. Giants Shaun Williams SS UCLA
25 Jacksonville Donovin Darius SS Syracuse
26 Pittsburgh Alan Faneca G Louisiana State
27 Kansas City Victor Riley T Auburn
28 San Francisco R.W. McQuarters CB Oklahoma State
29 Miami John Avery RB Mississippi
30 Denver Marcus Nash WR Tennessee

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm quite certain Greg Ellis is probably the best DE in the NFL who has the initials GE and who played at the university of North Carolina. Name me one better.

:laugh1: :lmao2: :lmao:

[Bob Sacamano]

lots of teams passed on that loser Moss, not just us

but here you go...like I was saying:

8 Dallas Greg Ellis DE North Carolina
9 Jacksonville Fred Taylor RB Florida
10 Baltimore Duane Starks CB Miami
11 Philadelphia Tra Thomas T Florida State
12 Atlanta Keith Brooking OLB Georgia Tech
13 Cincinnati Takeo Spikes OLB Auburn
14 Carolina Jason Peter DE Nebraska
15 Seattle Anthony Simmons OLB Clemson
16 Tennessee Kevin Dyson WR Utah
17 Cincinnati Brian Simmons OLB North Carolina
18 New England Robert Edwards RB Georgia
19 Green Bay Vonnie Holliday DT North Carolina
20 Detroit Terry Fair CB Tennessee
21 Minnesota Randy Moss WR Marshall
22 New England Tebucky Jones SS Syracuse
23 Oakland Mo Collins G Florida
24 N.Y. Giants Shaun Williams SS UCLA
25 Jacksonville Donovin Darius SS Syracuse
26 Pittsburgh Alan Faneca G Louisiana State
27 Kansas City Victor Riley T Auburn
28 San Francisco R.W. McQuarters CB Oklahoma State
29 Miami John Avery RB Mississippi
30 Denver Marcus Nash WR Tennessee

I'd take those guys over Ellis, but alas, hindsight is 20/20

[dbair1967]

Many DE's are moved around on the left side and the right side and back and forth in persuit of a favorable matchupl. Are we talking about DE's who ONLY play the left side? If so, its not hard to end up as one of the top 10 in your pos ition when there are only 15 who meet the criteria.

I'm quite certain Greg Ellis is probably the best DE in the NFL who has the initials GE and who played at the university of North Carolina. Name me one better.

you know exactly what I am talking about Roshi

you take out the 3-4 teams obviously...most teams the DE's play LDE or RDE a majority of the time...sure they move some, but Michael Strahan pretty much lines up at LDE every down...Julius Peppers lines up at LDE almost eveyr down

David

[dbair1967]

I'd take those guys over Ellis, but alas, hindsight is 20/20

Taylor has been a good RB, but we had Emmitt here and wouldnt have drafted him regardless...Tra Thomas is not a better LT than Greg Ellis is a DE, and Thomas certianly isnt a better LT than Flozelle Adams, who we drafted in the 2nd rd of this draft

Moss has already been run off by one team who was sick of his garbage, and will probably be run by another one after this season

David

[InmanRoshi]

you know exactly what I am talking about Roshi

you take out the 3-4 teams obviously...most teams the DE's play LDE or RDE a majority of the time...sure they move some, but Michael Strahan pretty much lines up at LDE every down...Julius Peppers lines up at LDE almost eveyr down

David

Jared Allen and Bertrand Berry play in 4-3's, and they line up on both sides.

So now we can only use ends that play for a team that runs the 4-3 who line up on the left side all the time ... I'm sure if we keep narrowing that criteria down we can fit Greg in the Top 10.

[dmq]

What about trading him to NO? They have been trade happy lately. Does anyone know the base defense they are gonna run? We aren't gonna release him. You can bank on that. I wouldn't mind trading him for a third. The way we have put it together w/ our drafts lately, it could be a really good player in the future. Plus it gives you way more mobility in the draft if we see somone we like.

[iceberg]

What about trading him to NO? They have been trade happy lately. Does anyone know the base defense they are gonna run? We aren't gonna release him. You can bank on that. I wouldn't mind trading him for a third. The way we have put it together w/ our drafts lately, it could be a really good player in the future. Plus it gives you way more mobility in the draft if we see somone we like.

fine - but i'll take no less than bush for him. : )

[BlueStar22]

fine - but i'll take no less than bush for him. : )
and Brees.

[iceberg]

and Brees.

well i didn't wanna seem unreasonable - this is just ellis after all. it's not like we've got coakley to offer...

[Waffle]

well i didn't wanna seem unreasonable - this is just ellis after all. it's not like we've got coakley to offer...

...or Rashard Lee. :lmao2:

[Canadian BoyzFan]

A lot of rumors floating around Ashlie Lelie (Not necessarily to Dallas). I am just throwing out a name.

[Alexander]

its the positon he plays isnt it? not really slick, just the truth

David

He's also played the right side. Are you prepared to say he is one of the top ten right defensive ends as well?

This is like saying Keyshawn Johnson was one of the top ten flankers, when you knew good and well he wasn't even close to being a top ten wide receiver in general.

[Alexander]

really, like who would have been more worthy?

Takeo Spikes and Keith Brooking both have Pro Bowls to their credit, which Ellis doesn't.

[Hostile]

Takeo Spikes and Keith Brooking both have Pro Bowls to their credit, which Ellis doesn't.Brooking is the name that stands out to me the most on the list after Moss. Seems like a perfect Parcells LB. Of course Parcells wasn't here at the time.

[superpunk]

Takeo Spikes and Keith Brooking both have Pro Bowls to their credit, which Ellis doesn't.

Countdown to pro-bowl discrediting...in 3....2....1.....

I know, because that's what I would say. :)

Or maybe not, because it would be hard to make a case against those guys deserving to go - cept maybe Brooking. He doesn't WOW me. Of course, neither does Ellis.

How bout eggs?

[iceberg]

Countdown to pro-bowl discrediting...in 3....2....1.....

I know, because that's what I would say. :)

Or maybe not, because it would be hard to make a case against those guys deserving to go - cept maybe Brooking. He doesn't WOW me. Of course, neither does Ellis.

How bout eggs?

do they taste like chicken???

[superpunk]

do they taste like chicken???

I love tabasco sauce.

On eggs.

Consider your mind blown.

[Alexander]

Brooking is the name that stands out to me the most on the list after Moss. Seems like a perfect Parcells LB. Of course Parcells wasn't here at the time.

I think he would have fit in as a middle linebacker for us back then. If you remember, we had Godfrey and Coakley flanking Fred Strickland.

[Alexander]

Countdown to pro-bowl discrediting...in 3....2....1.....

I know, because that's what I would say. :)

Or maybe not, because it would be hard to make a case against those guys deserving to go - cept maybe Brooking. He doesn't WOW me. Of course, neither does Ellis.

How bout eggs?

I think Brooking is a superior player. Discredit the Pro Bowl all you want.

[RealCowboyfan]

People this news is fake as anna nicole breast.

All this is: Some fan that's mad and want to start stiring up a rumor he lied about hearing on Sirius radio and it's going to be more people that didn't even hear anything stepping up saying yeah I heard it. Basically, this is a rumor that somebody is setting up which is the person who made the thread.

Cowboys isn't trading Greg Ellis off.

[superpunk]

I think Brooking is a superior player. Discredit the Pro Bowl all you want.

I was making a prediction, not outlining a course of action for myself. There are certain stock replies, which you began to be accustomed to. One is;

"Oh, so pro-bowls mean everything to you?:rolleyes: OMGZ LOLOLERZ!!1!1eleventy one1!!!!"

And so, I was predicting. Call me Ms. NostraCleo. Just make sure you call me.

It's pretty tough to argue pro-bowl selections for positions like LB.

[iceberg]

I love tabasco sauce.

On eggs.

Consider your mind blown.

my mind was blown when i tried to figure out one day if you got stabbed 1 time w/a fork if you suffered multiple stab wounds.

then again, push far enough it's just a gash...

now i've got this "why don't eggs taste like chicken" irony in my head and M*A*S*H is still 35 minutes away.

[Alexander]

OMGZ LOLOLERZ!!1!1eleventy one1!!!!"

That's one of my favorites.

[superpunk]

my mind was blown when i tried to figure out one day if you got stabbed 1 time w/a fork if you suffered multiple stab wounds.

King Triton is a bad, bad man....

So is Aquaman.

Actually, Aquaman is pretty lame.

I write for the Dallas Morning News. AND get paid.

How

Sweet

Is

That?

[RealCowboyfan]

Greg Ellis getting traded and Mike Vanderjaqt is my cousin, Terrell Owens is my brother, and Toni Fonoti is my uncle.

[BigDDynasty]

People this news is fake as anna nicole breast.

All this is: Some fan that's mad and want to start stiring up a rumor he lied about hearing on Sirius radio and it's going to be more people that didn't even hear anything stepping up saying yeah I heard it. Basically, this is a rumor that somebody is setting up which is the person who made the thread.

Cowboys isn't trading Greg Ellis off.

I am telling yall what I heard with own ears on Sirius today.....You think you know it, like what you say is definite. Why in the hell do the Cowboys want to have Elliss on the sidelines after this?

[slick325]

no, he isnt...can you name 10 4-3 LDE's better than him?

If you think you can please do so, we all need some amusement..

the guy is one of the better all around DE's in football but because he was drafted here, by Jones and instead of that loser team cancer Moss, everyone throws Ellis under the bus

its pretty stupid IMO...the guys been a great player for us for years...and he's been an INCREDIBLE bargain when you look at his production vs his cap charges...

David

It's tough to name 10 but I can name a few LDE's that are better. Keep in mind that I like Greg Ellis too.

Here we go:

Strahan NYG
J. Peppers CAR
J. Kearse PHI
S. Ellis NYJ
Ogunleye CHI
B. Young SF (former pro bowler is really a DT in 4-3 but listed as LDE in 49ers 3-4 scheme)
L. Little STL
J. Abraham ATL (on nfl.com depth chart he is listed as their LDE)
K.Carter MIA (stats wise he is a better player)
W. Smith NO (younger than G. Ellis and putting up G. Ellis numbers in his 1st two years despite shared time with D. Howard)


That's nine. An argument can be made against some. An argument can also be made that B. Fisher of SEA may be equivalent to G. Ellis.

That was my try at it, only accounting for LDE's.

[iceberg]

King Triton is a bad, bad man....

So is Aquaman.

Actually, Aquaman is pretty lame.

I write for the Dallas Morning News. AND get paid.

How

Sweet

Is

That?

sub mariner would kick aquamans butt. then again, neither of them really interested me and DC was just pretty lame for many years during the 80's when i collected them and firestorm was the best i could do. got a letter printed in issue 4 of the 2nd run. i rule. : )

[RealCowboyfan]

I am telling yall what I heard with own ears on Sirius today.....You think you know it, like what you say is definite. Why in the hell do the Cowboys want to have Elliss on the sidelines after this?

Maybe because he doesn't fit as a DE in the 3-4 defense and why are you try to justify that all of this is not a lie if it is true?

[BigDDynasty]

Pat Kirwan said it......I sure they will play the show over tonight. And what you said doesn't make sense. Elliss IS forcing a guarantee or a trade. How can we keep it the same after this? What do we just ignore it? And the latter looks alot more likely...I responded to your smart little comment because what I said was the truth and for to accuse me of that is just plain wrong! What am going to get for saying that? A cookie? C'mon man! I heard the end of it and was pretty sure some else was listening to it also.

[AbeBeta]

Could you please at least spell the guy's name right?

[BigDDynasty]

lol.....my bad. Ellis

[Waffle]

lol.....my bad. Ellis

No...it's Elli$.

[ConcordCowboy]

This is another case where we overvalue "our" player and undervalue "theirs".


Ok I'm all for that...Let right a Wrong and Trade Ellis For Moss!

[felix360]

since the titans seem to want to get rid of good QB's maybe we can trade Ellis for Volek. :p:

[iceberg]

since the titans seem to want to get rid of good QB's maybe we can trade Ellis for Volek. :p:

you know - volek can't be happy about young when he's been busting hump to get the chance, but something tells me he'd not be anxious to sit on the bench here either. at least w/young and he's got open competition.

[Doomsday101]

you know - volek can't be happy about young when he's been busting hump to get the chance, but something tells me he'd not be anxious to sit on the bench here either. at least w/young and he's got open competition.

Tenn did not use a high 1st rd pick as well as paying out the money to get Young for him to sit very long. This will be Young’s job and they will give him every opportunity to succeed. Volek will have to be content with the backup job or look to move on from Tenn

[Cowboy Junkie]

since the titans seem to want to get rid of good QB's maybe we can trade Ellis for Volek. :p:

Volek is not much younger than Bledsoe and Bledsoe is a better QB

[Alexander]

No...it's Elli$.

:lmao2:

[Doomsday101]

Volek is not much younger than Bledsoe and Bledsoe is a better QB

Bledsoe is 4 years older and truth is Volek has never had much of a chance at the starters role and does not have much wear on him. I'm not advocating Dallas should look at him but I think if he gets a chance to be a starter I think he could do the job based off what I have seen of him when he has had extended playing time

[BigDFan5]

no, he isnt...can you name 10 4-3 LDE's better than him?

If you think you can please do so, we all need some amusement..

the guy is one of the better all around DE's in football but because he was drafted here, by Jones and instead of that loser team cancer Moss, everyone throws Ellis under the bus

its pretty stupid IMO...the guys been a great player for us for years...and he's been an INCREDIBLE bargain when you look at his production vs his cap charges...

David

Here is 12 in no specific order

Osi Umenyiora
Simeon Rice
Michael Strahan
John Abraham
Dwight Freeny
Julius Peppers
Jason Taylor
Robert Mathis
Adewale Ogunleye
Aaron Schobel
Jared Allen
Derrick Burgess (if he can continue like last year)

[BigDFan5]

Nice to see you narrow it down by including the LEFT DE addition.

That's pretty slick.

haha I didn't even notice the "LDE" add on there. I thought a "top 10 at his position" meant his position being DE

[Hiero]

I would trade him for a solid third cornerback. Glenn doesn't have much longer and we might be moving Reeves to safety.
Same here. I would really like to have a good young 3rd corner.

[Alexander]

Bledsoe is 4 years older and truth is Volek has never had much of a chance at the starters role and does not have much wear on him. I'm not advocating Dallas should look at him but I think if he gets a chance to be a starter I think he could do the job based off what I have seen of him when he has had extended playing time

If they offered Volek for Ellis, we'd be stupid not to take it.

[Doomsday101]

If they offered Volek for Ellis, we'd be stupid not to take it.

I agree, I like Volek but I don't want to start yet another QB war around here which is why I said I'm not advocating getting him but if an offer like that came about yes I would be for it.

[Alexander]

Here is 12 in no specific order

Osi Umenyiora
Simeon Rice
Michael Strahan
John Abraham
Dwight Freeny
Julius Peppers
Jason Taylor
Robert Mathis
Adewale Ogunleye
Aaron Schobel
Jared Allen
Derrick Burgess (if he can continue like last year)

Mathis and Freeney play on the same team, so they can't both be LDEs (Mathis is the LE). You can add Reggie Heyward there though.

Taylor plays the right side also.

[Alexander]

I agree, I like Volek but I don't want to start yet another QB war around here which is why I said I'm not advocating getting him but if an offer like that came about yes I would be for it.

I'd rather have an experienced backup for now and Volek would fit the bill. But I am sure if they trade him, it will be to someone he could start for. Besides, I don't think Vince Young is ready to start, nor would Jeff Fisher go at it with no experienced QB around to help him. Young isn't ready to start and if they threw him off the deep end they would be some ugly results.

[5Stars]

Call the Broncos...ship Ellis's but outta here and have the Broncos trade Plummer to the Boyz...since everyone thinks Henson or Romo are busts (ala. Krankcase)...

:starspin

[wileedog]

I'd rather have an experienced backup for now and Volek would fit the bill. But I am sure if they trade him, it will be to someone he could start for. Besides, I don't think Vince Young is ready to start, nor would Jeff Fisher go at it with no experienced QB around to help him. Young isn't ready to start and if they threw him off the deep end they would be some ugly results.

I didn't really follow the McNair saga too closely.

Was there talk about trading him before the draft, or did it look like they drafted Young with the intent that he would sit behind McNair for a couple of years?

The same management team had no problem sitting McNair for a while even though he was a top 3 pick, and I think it was the right thing to do. I think it is with Young as well, but it would be interesing to see if they planned on handling him differently.

[Waffle]

Call the Broncos...ship Ellis's but outta here and have the Broncos trade Plummer to the Boyz...since everyone thinks Henson or Romo are busts (ala. Krankcase)...

:starspin

We'd have to ship Elli$ to Cleveland first before the Broncos would consider trading for him.

[Doomsday101]

I'd rather have an experienced backup for now and Volek would fit the bill. But I am sure if they trade him, it will be to someone he could start for. Besides, I don't think Vince Young is ready to start, nor would Jeff Fisher go at it with no experienced QB around to help him. Young isn't ready to start and if they threw him off the deep end they would be some ugly results.

Chances are Volek will start the season but Tenn has already said they will put in packages in place to use Young this year within the game and basically get his feet wet but after this season or maybe later in this season this is Young’s job. I’m not much into starting rookie QB’s but when your talking a high #1 it is not uncommon for that QB to get a lot of playing time early on, the investment is why too high to have him sit for more than 1 season

[5Stars]

We'd have to ship Elli$ to Cleveland first before the Broncos would consider trading for him.

That is a real good point, Waffle! :)

You earned three Beautiful Stars!

:starspin :starspin :starspin

[Alexander]

I didn't really follow the McNair saga too closely.

Was there talk about trading him before the draft, or did it look like they drafted Young with the intent that he would sit behind McNair for a couple of years?

The same management team had no problem sitting McNair for a while even though he was a top 3 pick, and I think it was the right thing to do. I think it is with Young as well, but it would be interesing to see if they planned on handling him differently.

I think they wanted to keep McNair around, but knew that he'd have to take a massive pay cut to keep him. I am sure that was part of the plan, but it isn't like recent developments with McNair caught them by surprise. It just didn't work out exactly as planned. I don't think they have ever had designs on starting Young right away. If so, they are more foolish than I think.

[5Stars]

I don't think they have ever had designs on starting Young right away. If so, they are more foolish than I think.

Why are they foolish? The Boyz started Krankcase right away, and he led us to the playoffs. :cool:

:star:

[Waffle]

That is a real good point, Waffle! :)

You earned three Beautiful Stars!

:starspin :starspin :starspin

Thank you. Three outta five ain't bad! :cool:

[Alexander]

Why are they foolish? The Boyz started Krankcase right away, and he led us to the playoffs. :cool:

:star:

We didn't make the playoffs in Krankcase's rookie season.:cool:

And believe it or not, Krankcase was more prepared to play than Young. He simply has some bad habits that Chow will have to coach out of him before they can just throw him out there and hope to win games. He'll start next year for sure, but I don't think they want to rush him, nor do they need to.

[5Stars]

Thank you. Three outta five ain't bad! :cool:

Sorry...

:starspin :starspin :)

[5Stars]

We didn't make the playoffs in Krankcase's rookie season.:cool:

And believe it or not, Krankcase was more prepared to play than Young. He simply has some bad habits that Chow will have to coach out of him before they can just throw him out there and hope to win games. He'll start next year for sure, but I don't think they want to rush him, nor do they need to.

I agree with that...and I hate saying this, but, I bet if Krankcase would have stayed away from the Devils Weed, he would have been a better QB then Young...

:star:

[BigDFan5]

Mathis and Freeney play on the same team, so they can't both be LDEs (Mathis is the LE). You can add Reggie Heyward there though.

Taylor plays the right side also.

I just named the DE's since that is his position, being a "top 10 LDE" means nothing if you rank 20th overall

[Eskimo]

Here is 12 in no specific order

Osi Umenyiora
Simeon Rice
Michael Strahan
John Abraham
Dwight Freeny
Julius Peppers
Jason Taylor
Robert Mathis
Adewale Ogunleye
Aaron Schobel
Jared Allen
Derrick Burgess (if he can continue like last year)

Osi = RDE
Rice = RDE
Abraham = RDE
Freeny = RDE
Taylor = RDE

All of these guys are edge rushing RDEs by their nature and not really the sort of player you would want lined up consistently at LDE unless you don't care about stopping the run (like the Falcons).

I'm not sure about Schobel but I thought he played RDE for the Bills.

Mathis plays LDE but is not an everydown player - he is a pass rush specialist at the LDE position and weighs about 240 pounds. I would just count him as a DE/OLB tweener and not a true LDE.

Burgess has had one good season and is really more of a pass rusher than all-around player but hard to ignore 16 sacks.

Not sure if Allen is playing LDE for the Chiefs.

You left out Shaun Ellis who is probably a slightly better player than Greg Ellis.

You can make an argument for Kearse but he hasn't shown great pass rush ability the past couple of years in Philly and is not as good against the run as Ellis.

You could also make an argument for Kevin Carter but I'm not convinced he is better than Ellis either.

[BigDFan5]

Osi = RDE
Rice = RDE
Abraham = RDE
Freeny = RDE
Taylor = RDE

All of these guys are edge rushing RDEs by their nature and not really the sort of player you would want lined up consistently at LDE unless you don't care about stopping the run (like the Falcons).

So you would take Ellis over these guys?

I'm not sure about Schobel but I thought he played RDE for the Bills.

Mathis plays LDE but is not an everydown player - he is a pass rush specialist at the LDE position and weighs about 240 pounds. I would just count him as a DE/OLB tweener and not a true LDE.

Burgess has had one good season and is really more of a pass rusher than all-around player but hard to ignore 16 sacks.

Not sure if Allen is playing LDE for the Chiefs.

You left out Shaun Ellis who is probably a slightly better player than Greg Ellis.

You can make an argument for Kearse but he hasn't shown great pass rush ability the past couple of years in Philly and is not as good against the run as Ellis.

You could also make an argument for Kevin Carter but I'm not convinced he is better than Ellis either.


Out of all the DE's I listed L or R, which would you take Ellis over?

[Eskimo]

I just named the DE's since that is his position, being a "top 10 LDE" means nothing if you rank 20th overall

The job demands are significantly different at each position.

It is just like comparing SOLB and WOLB - entirely different positions requiring players with different abilities.

It is somewhat analagous to a 3-technique and 1-technique DT. Technically they are both 4-3 DTs but with very different responsibilties.

Anyhow, being amongst the top 10 4-3 LDEs still means he is up against about 60 other players in the league given about 26 teams play the 4-3 so it is nothing to sneeze about.

You also have to consider that he may not be that easy to replace as we spent numerous draft picks over the years and didn't find one quality player among the whole lot of them.

In terms of signing them as FAs, just take a look at how much guys like Rice, Strahan and Jason Taylor make - and that's assuming one of them ever hit the FA market.

[Eskimo]

So you would take Ellis over these guys?


Out of all the DE's I listed L or R, which would you take Ellis over?

I would take Ellis over Mathis for sure.

I'd have to take a closer look at Schobel and Allen to give more of an informed opinion on those two to be honest with you. I know they are good pass rushers but I'm not sure about the rest of their game.

The rest I would take over Ellis.

[MichaelWinicki]

We trade Ellis and our average pass-rush tanks this year.

[Eskimo]

We trade Ellis and our average pass-rush tanks this year.

I agree - he and Ware are the only guys I would trust to get any pressure on the QB.

I place a lot of blame here on BP - he really soured the relationship he had with Ellis last season and it has come back to bite him in the arse this year. It sounds like he has tried to rectify the situation but it also sounds like Ellis isn't buying in to the program.

It is too bad this situation wasn't dealt with earlier as we could have gotten into the bidding war for Abraham - the downside is that we would have had to move Ware over to SOLB and I'm not sure he could handle the coverage responsibilities.

[big dog cowboy]

We trade Ellis and our average pass-rush tanks this year.
Maybe a angry Ellis really tears it up for us this year.

[Alexander]

We trade Ellis and our average pass-rush tanks this year.

So keeping a disgruntled Ellis makes the pass rush?

He isn't a pass rusher who does it off his athleticism. It's all effort.

If he is giving less than his best, which he has said he would unless he is paid, it won't matter.

So you are saying we should give in and pay him because we are scared of what becomes of our pass rush?

[AbeBeta]

We trade Ellis and our average pass-rush tanks this year.

Exactly why he's staying.

Unhappy or not, I think we all know Ellis is too much of a pro to not give it his all on the field.

[Alexander]

Exactly why he's staying.

Unhappy or not, I think we all know Ellis is too much of a pro to not give it his all on the field.

You'd think that, but he has already said it: no more, no less.

I just don't think he would be effective if unhappy. I don't care how much of a pro he is.

[Eskimo]

So keeping a disgruntled Ellis makes the pass rush?

He isn't a pass rusher who does it off his athleticism. It's all effort.

If he is giving less than his best, which he has said he would unless he is paid, it won't matter.

So you are saying we should give in and pay him because we are scared of what becomes of our pass rush?

I suspect Ellis would still play hard because he knows he has to keep up his value for next offseason when he could be released.

[CrazyCowboy]

Ellis for Ed Reed? :D

Where can I sign up for that trade at?

[dbair1967]

Takeo Spikes and Keith Brooking both have Pro Bowls to their credit, which Ellis doesn't.

Spikes is a great player, no question

Brooking is one of the most overrated players in football IMO...alot of his tackles he makes way down field, and he is awful in coverage

David

[dbair1967]

Here is 12 in no specific order

Osi Umenyiora
Simeon Rice
Michael Strahan
John Abraham
Dwight Freeny
Julius Peppers
Jason Taylor
Robert Mathis
Adewale Ogunleye
Aaron Schobel
Jared Allen
Derrick Burgess (if he can continue like last year)

and virtually everyone of them plays the pass rushing RDE side a vast majority of the time...alot of those guys are mediocre to average vs the run, and Ellis is very good vs the run

David

[dbair1967]

We trade Ellis and our average pass-rush tanks this year.

you got that right

we have Ware and Ellis...nobody else on this team comes close to sniffing a QB on a regular basis, and Mr Zimmer has already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he isnt worth a damn at creating a pass rush or coaching up mediocre to average guys

if we're trading Ellis, we better be getting a pressure player in the front 7 in return...or its hello 14 second pass attempts again for opponents (ala Philly 2004)

David

[dbair1967]

So keeping a disgruntled Ellis makes the pass rush?

He isn't a pass rusher who does it off his athleticism. It's all effort.

If he is giving less than his best, which he has said he would unless he is paid, it won't matter.

So you are saying we should give in and pay him because we are scared of what becomes of our pass rush?

I dont know that we should "give in and pay him" as you say, but getting rid of him when you only have one other guy capable of rushing the QB is plain stupid...especially when your coordinator cant get a defense to find the opposing QB with a rand mcnally

David

[silverbear]

seriously, teams now know if we're entertaining Ellis in a trade, that we're planning on releasing him

Show me one quote from anybody on the Cowboys saying they're looking into trading Ellis...

Just one, summer...

[BigDFan5]

and virtually everyone of them plays the pass rushing RDE side a vast majority of the time...alot of those guys are mediocre to average vs the run, and Ellis is very good vs the run

David


so which guy ranks below ellis?

[silverbear]

Now is the time to trade Ellis. It doesn't mean we'll be releasing him, it just means we want the headache out of Dallas and want something for him.

Not meaning to insult you personally, Tony, but this whole thing has gotten WAY beyond stupid...

So, you guys think the Cowboys should trade Ellis, do you?? And all because he's squawking about his contract right now??

I ask you, did the Cowboys trade Charles Haley when he was makin' a royal PITA of himself?? The moral here is you don't just ship off PRODUCTIVE players, just because they're the squeaking wheels that need greasing...

If we can't get a trade, he'll shutup and play.

The only way the Cowboys would even CONSIDER a trade is if they got a knock-your-socks off offer...

Hopefully, if we are entertaining trade options, there are some good player names floating around.

Again, do you have ANYTHING from ANYBODY in the front office, saying they're looking into trading Ellis... does anybody in here??

I ask because I sure haven't seen anything to that effect... as a result, I rather doubt that the Cowboys ARE "entertaining trade options"...

[silverbear]

Why do we keep talking about an Ellis trade? Jerry and Bill have both said he is not going anywhere. His salary is relatively cheap for player of his caliber and Ellis has already said that he will not hold out. Unless he turns into a jerk or distraction, all this trade talk is wishful thinking in my view.

Profoundly stupid wishful thinking, IMO... Greg Ellis is too good to just send packing, because he's griping about his contract...

Greg's remaining in Dallas was assured when they paid him that half-mil signing bonus... they knew he was a malcontent at that point, and still paid him...

[silverbear]

And he speculated CB.

Well, since it's probably our deepest position on defense, I guess that makes perfect sense.

LOL... this time, your sarcasm cracked me up... I thought the exact same thing when I first clicked on this thread...

[silverbear]

if it has to happen, pay attention to the OL for a change, bill!!!!

Exactly right...

[silverbear]

bye bye ellis.

Never happen... at least, not until next offseason...

[silverbear]

Pat Kirwan said it......I sure they will play the show over tonight. And what you said doesn't make sense. Elliss IS forcing a guarantee or a trade. How can we keep it the same after this? What do we just ignore it?

Yup, that's EXACTLY what we do... bottom line, Ellis has no leverage, short of a holdout, and he's already said he wouldn't do that... so let him run off at the mouth, and run him out on the field each Sunday...

You guys act like this is the first time a Cowboys player has ever made a PITA of himself...

BTW, I don't think you'd lie about what you heard, BigD... I believe you heard what you claimed, but I rather doubt that Kirwan was doing anything more than speculating...

[silverbear]

If they offered Volek for Ellis, we'd be stupid not to take it.

Yeah, I can see the Titans offering Volek up...

ROTFLMAO...

[silverbear]

So keeping a disgruntled Ellis makes the pass rush?

He isn't a pass rusher who does it off his athleticism. It's all effort.

If he is giving less than his best, which he has said he would unless he is paid

Gee, I must have clean missed the article where he said that he'd dog it if he didn't get a new deal... could you offer me a link to those comments??

Or did you make that up??

[BigDFan5]

Gee, I must have clean missed the article where he said that he'd dog it if he didn't get a new deal... could you offer me a link to those comments??

Or did you make that up??

Might be in reference to this


"The ball is in their court because I'm under contract," Ellis said. "It's just not beneficial to have a guy on their team who feels like he's not being committed to. ..."

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news.cfm?id=A1BBBCD4-DC29-C244-C6B6140A76E4DD8A

[Alexander]

Gee, I must have clean missed the article where he said that he'd dog it if he didn't get a new deal... could you offer me a link to those comments??

Or did you make that up??

His statement was basically that he would do what's necessary, "no more, no less".

Since he has always been a player that's got what's he achieved through effort, this isn't in our best interest to have less of what has made his successes.

[Bluefin]

Given all the past indications of Greg Ellis' high character and leadership role, I'll admit to being surprised at the attention he's drawn over his role on the team in the 3-4.

I perfectly understand Ellis' position, but he has to know that the chance of leaving vanished as soon as the Cowboys paid his off-season roster bonus.

Continuing to play sour grapes will gain nothing and can only hurt the team and players he reportedly cares so deeply about.

Accept the new role Bill Parcells feels you can succeed in. Hell, attack it with zealousness and maybe inspire your younger teammates.

Play all out in 2006 and the future will take care of itself, be it in Dallas or another locale.

[AbeBeta]

You'd think that, but he has already said it: no more, no less.

I just don't think he would be effective if unhappy. I don't care how much of a pro he is.

Maybe I'm a Polyanna -- I just don't see that in Ellis.

If he really wants out, tanking it would be the only thing that could hurt his future salary. He leaves here and he in for 7-10 mill as an SB. But if he tank it and pouts, he's going to lose some serious scratch.

Of course, I never thought I'd hear him complaining like this. So all bets might be off.

[Alexander]

Maybe I'm a Polyanna -- I just don't see that in Ellis.

If he really wants out, tanking it would be the only thing that could hurt his future salary. He leaves here and he in for 7-10 mill as an SB. But if he tank it and pouts, he's going to lose some serious scratch.

Of course, I never thought I'd hear him complaining like this. So all bets might be off.

I think we will wait this out and see if it gets worse.

The big test will be if he holds out of camp. He has said he wouldn't. If he does, then I have no doubt we dump him.

[wileedog]

I think we will wait this out and see if it gets worse.

The big test will be if he holds out of camp. He has said he wouldn't. If he does, then I have no doubt we dump him.

Agreed. But I just don't see any way they trade him before that.

A - We need the pass rush. Even a half-*** one. If nothing else we need the depth. We got derailed by injuries as much as a kicker last year.

B - I don't think we can get value in return. Disgruntled players don't bring back strong trade value for obvious reasons. and,

C - I just don't see Bill giving in on this one. I think he'll work on Ellis all camp (IF he reports) and get him to buy in, if begrudgingly.

Both Bill and Jerry have made strong statements that Ellis is going nowhere. Now they just need to convince Ellis of that.

[Bob Sacamano]

and dbair, I'm quite sure Dallas didn't draft Ellis to be a LDE after holding NC's career sacks record, in fact, I believe he was moved to the left side after his rookie year

[Bob Sacamano]

Bledsoe is 4 years older and truth is Volek has never had much of a chance at the starters role and does not have much wear on him. I'm not advocating Dallas should look at him but I think if he gets a chance to be a starter I think he could do the job based off what I have seen of him when he has had extended playing time

it seems Volek is only effective when he's throwing to Drew Bennett

[Bob Sacamano]

Mathis and Freeney play on the same team, so they can't both be LDEs (Mathis is the LE). You can add Reggie Heyward there though.

Taylor plays the right side also.

doesn't Bertrand Berry play LDE also?

[Bob Sacamano]

Show me one quote from anybody on the Cowboys saying they're looking into trading Ellis...

Just one, summer...

I'm just saying, if we were looking to trade Ellis we wouldn't be seeing anything of real value in return because of what you have quoted, I know Dallas isn't going to trade him

[bewareofdware]

Who could use somenoe like Ellis, Denver? Who are their CB's other than Champ?
they had a rookie on the other side that wosen't bad last year

[Bob Sacamano]

they had a rookie on the other side that wosen't bad last year

Dominique Foxworth and Darrent Williams were pretty good last year, maybe the best 2 corners of last year's rookie crop

[bewareofdware]

Dominique Foxworth and Darrent Williams were pretty good last year, maybe the best 2 corners of last year's rookie crop
thanks i was thinking of darrent williams

[Eskimo]

doesn't Bertrand Berry play LDE also?

I seem to recall him lining up more over Tucker when we played the Cards last year which would suggest he is more of a RDE. I think Berry is a classic edge pass rusher.

I remember wanting him two years ago but we decided to sign Wiley because he was a "bargain" and played the run better.

[silverbear]

Might be in reference to this



http://www.dallascowboys.com/news.cfm?id=A1BBBCD4-DC29-C244-C6B6140A76E4DD8A

That refers to the Cowboys not being committed to him, but says nothing about him giving less than full effort for them... he's saying he might not be a happy camper, but anything more than that is an assumption on your part (not you specifically, BigD, that's aimed at everybody who seems to be saying that Greg would dog it this year)...

[silverbear]

His statement was basically that he would do what's necessary, "no more, no less".

Again, I never saw such a statement... without meaning to be confrontational, if he DID say that, I'd like to read the quote... if I did, it might bring me around to something closer to your point of view...

But all I've seen is him saying he'd show up for camp, and all mandatory workouts, because he's under contract...

Since he has always been a player that's got what's he achieved through effort, this isn't in our best interest to have less of what has made his successes.

If he really said that, you're right... but again, I've read nothing even vaguely resembling that from Greg, and I think you know that I read everything I can find about the Cowboys...

However, it's always possible that I missed something along the way, so if you have input for me, bring it on... I like to think I have at least some intellectual flexibility, and new facts could possibly cause me to change my opinion...

But as things stand now, this just isn't nearly the big deal that so many of y'all are making it out to be... indeed, I rather think that if there was something else football-related to talk about right now, this whole Ellis controversy would have a much lower profile on these boards...

[silverbear]

Maybe I'm a Polyanna -- I just don't see that in Ellis.

If he really wants out, tanking it would be the only thing that could hurt his future salary. He leaves here and he in for 7-10 mill as an SB. But if he tank it and pouts, he's going to lose some serious scratch.

Ahhh, common sense puts in an appearance... there is literally no way that Ellis will give the Boys anything less than full effort this year, simply because anything less would come back to bite him in the butt when it's time to strike a new deal elsewhere... it would be cutting off his nose to spite his face...

[silverbear]

I think we will wait this out and see if it gets worse.

The big test will be if he holds out of camp. He has said he wouldn't. If he does, then I have no doubt we dump him.

If he holds out, screw him... but until then, this is a tempest in a teapot...

[silverbear]

I'm just saying, if we were looking to trade Ellis we wouldn't be seeing anything of real value in return because of what you have quoted, I know Dallas isn't going to trade him

OK, summer, I must have misunderstood you... I thought you were saying that the Cowboys had publicly stated that they were looking to trade Greg...

[Bob Sacamano]

OK, summer, I must have misunderstood you...

apology accepted ;)

[iceberg]

His statement was basically that he would do what's necessary, "no more, no less".

Since he has always been a player that's got what's he achieved through effort, this isn't in our best interest to have less of what has made his successes.

define "necessary"

to some it's barely enough.
to others it's all they have.

this is where i think "wordsmiths" read only their POV into the words of another and make things difficult picking fights about topics where they just didn't exist.