Murder of the 2 soldiers in Iraq-- I'm very sad and angry...

[MichaelWinicki]

My daughter heads to Iraq in August.

So obviously that's fueling some of my emotions at this point-- BUT

It doesn't over-ride the fact that I'm so very despondent and incredibly angry at over how those two soldiers were brutally murdered by masses of tissue I don't even consider to be human.

Agree with the position in Iraq or disagree... but the fact is having U.S. citizens butchered in that way leaves me sickened.

Granted it appears their was some sort of tactical snafu that left this one vehicle alone, which should get someone cashiered.

However that doesn't mitigate someone(s) capturing and murdering these two young men.

At the very moment I have very ugly thoughts at what I would do within this "triangle" south of Baghdad.

[Funxva]

My daughter heads to Iraq in August.

So obviously that's fueling some of my emotions at this point-- BUT

It doesn't over-ride the fact that I'm so very despondent and incredibly angry at over how those two soldiers were brutally murdered by masses of tissue I don't even consider to be human.

Agree with the position in Iraq or disagree... but the fact is having U.S. citizens butchered in that way leaves me sickened.

Granted it appears their was some sort of tactical snafu that left this one vehicle alone, which should get someone cashiered.

However that doesn't mitigate someone(s) capturing and murdering these two young men.

At the very moment I have very ugly thoughts at what I would do within this "triangle" south of Baghdad.

I'm curious as to where the human rights watch dog groups that you heard about Abu Graib and Gitmo are? Why don't they ever say anything when our soldiers get tortured and killed.

I think I head a statistic that of all the captured or kidnapped troops in this war, none of them have come out of being captured alive.

I guess except for Jessica Lynch.

[Yeagermeister]

I'm curious as to where the human rights watch dog groups that you heard about Abu Graib and Gitmo are? Why don't they ever say anything when our soldiers get tortured and killed.

I think I head a statistic that of all the captured or kidnapped troops in this war, none of them have come out of being captured alive.

I guess except for Jessica Lynch.
There was that one contractor that escaped but that seemed fishy to me.

Winki it goes without saying that our prayers are with your daughter.

[Hoov]

My daughter heads to Iraq in August.

So obviously that's fueling some of my emotions at this point-- BUT

It doesn't over-ride the fact that I'm so very despondent and incredibly angry at over how those two soldiers were brutally murdered by masses of tissue I don't even consider to be human.

Agree with the position in Iraq or disagree... but the fact is having U.S. citizens butchered in that way leaves me sickened.

Granted it appears their was some sort of tactical snafu that left this one vehicle alone, which should get someone cashiered.

However that doesn't mitigate someone(s) capturing and murdering these two young men.

At the very moment I have very ugly thoughts at what I would do within this "triangle" south of Baghdad.

understandable. War is about killing, its kind of weird how people in america will not take a stand as being against a particular war, but then want the US to be humane about it.

Im am not for any war unless it is necessary because you are being attacked or invaded, or you have a situation like hitler trying to take over the world and doing awful things to people who cant defend themselves. But, once it is on, why *****foot around. if you are going to go to war then its going to be ugly and use everything you have got.

I guess it is the way war is done today, that so many people are apathetic about it, they dont mind the US flexing its muscles a bit, but that kind of war lends to situations like this. If Bush said we are going to wipe out that entire population and land off the face of the earth, more people would be against going to war in the first place. But other countries know we arent going to fight like that, they know we are going to try to have a "contained war" with the least amount of casualties while trying to accomplish our goal, and these countries dont have that same respect for life. so they are going to get opportunities for cheap shots like taking out soldiers who are performing routine duties.

[Qwickdraw]

My daughter heads to Iraq in August.

So obviously that's fueling some of my emotions at this point-- BUT

It doesn't over-ride the fact that I'm so very despondent and incredibly angry at over how those two soldiers were brutally murdered by masses of tissue I don't even consider to be human.

Agree with the position in Iraq or disagree... but the fact is having U.S. citizens butchered in that way leaves me sickened.

Granted it appears their was some sort of tactical snafu that left this one vehicle alone, which should get someone cashiered.

However that doesn't mitigate someone(s) capturing and murdering these two young men.

At the very moment I have very ugly thoughts at what I would do within this "triangle" south of Baghdad.

Boom.

[Seven]

My daughter heads to Iraq in August.

So obviously that's fueling some of my emotions at this point-- BUT

It doesn't over-ride the fact that I'm so very despondent and incredibly angry at over how those two soldiers were brutally murdered by masses of tissue I don't even consider to be human.

Agree with the position in Iraq or disagree... but the fact is having U.S. citizens butchered in that way leaves me sickened.

Granted it appears their was some sort of tactical snafu that left this one vehicle alone, which should get someone cashiered.

However that doesn't mitigate someone(s) capturing and murdering these two young men.

At the very moment I have very ugly thoughts at what I would do within this "triangle" south of Baghdad.


It wouldn't be a "triangle." It would be circular and very deep.

[Aikmaniac]

What amazes me is the fact that these piles of **** brag about becoming martyrs...why not show your faces?

Cowards.

I'm with you guys. Screw being PC. I'm all for blowing the **** outta them.

[ConcordCowboy]

A guy that went to my Wife's High School just got buried yesterday at Arlington. 23 Unbelievable.

Don't agree with the War at all.

[DWelch1775]

Well if it makes you feel any better i'm in Iraq right now getting some for all of you back home. Semper Fi

[jksmith269]

First let me say GOD be with your Daughter.

I have the same emotional feelings about whats going on in Iraq as most but if we lower our selves to their level then we are no better than them, and for the most part the Iraq majority aren't like the few. Change is painful look at the changes here in the USA, how many african americans died during the civil rights movement and I mean brutaly murdered that our own government helped cover up but with time things have gotten better and they will there as well we just have to give it time and not give up on the People of Iraq.

[royhitshard]

What amazes me is the fact that these piles of **** brag about becoming martyrs...why not show your faces?

Cowards.

I'm with you guys. Screw being PC. I'm all for blowing the **** outta them.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gibby!]

Well if it makes you feel any better i'm in Iraq right now getting some for all of you back home. Semper Fi


Just don't forget where your buddies are ;). I am not a conspiracy theorist by any definition. But... There is a lot coming out to help the men and women over there shortly. Trust me on that one. When the criminals get smart, the cops get smarter. The world police have some of the most brilliant minds on the planet working on things to help bust the bad guys over there.

[burmafrd]

You don't need police over there. Just more body bags and the right bodies to fill them.

[iceberg]

Well if it makes you feel any better i'm in Iraq right now getting some for all of you back home. Semper Fi

durka durka mohammad jihad - hadji girl. : )

saw that video the other day and about fell over laughing. then i simply could not believe that THAT MARINE was under scrutiny for talking about killing insurgents that attacked HIM. there was a time we backed our forces with more than lipservice and to see the marine have to apologize for the song in a far too PC fashion was embarassing to me so i can't imagine how he must have felt.

"hi, you can put your life on the line and run the risk of having your head cut off with a spoon, but you can't make fun of the enemy and you must respect their feelings, so please quit being mean".

like many are pointing out - *we* must be humane but *they* don't have to be. while i don't think we need to resort to their own measures, i do think we can cut loose a bit more and just get this over with vs. trying to contain it.

[DWelch1775]

PC won't save you in Iraq. Sorry, but kicking *** is the only thing that keeps you alive over here. If we worry to much about hurting their feelings then they will run all over us. We'll kick *** over here and you guys in the States can decide what's PC and whats not.

[DWelch1775]

A guy that went to my Wife's High School just got buried yesterday at Arlington. 23 Unbelievable.

Don't agree with the War at all.

Hey i'm 22 and in the war right now. We are all grown men and women, we made the decision to come over here and fight, and in some cases we give our life for what we believe in. So for Americans to say they don't believe in the war is kind of a slap in the face to us.

[ConcordCowboy]

Hey i'm 22 and in the war right now. We are all grown men and women, we made the decision to come over here and fight, and in some cases we give our life for what we believe in. So for Americans to say they don't believe in the war is kind of a slap in the face to us.

Hey I support the troops and I want you all to come home safe...But I and Many Americans Don't agree with the War in Iraq. Many Do and that's fine for them.

If you believe in it good...I don't and you're over there fighting for my right to say things like this...And I appreciate that...But people have to understand you CAN Support the Troops and NOT agree with the War.

[DWelch1775]

Hey I support the troops and I want you all to come home safe...But I and Many Americans Don't agree with the War in Iraq. Many Do and that's fine for them.

If you believe in it good...I don't and you're over there fighting for my right to say things like this...And I appreciate that...But people have to understand you CAN Support the Troops and NOT agree with the War.

Your right, I hope i didn't offend you i just get carried away sometimes.

[ConcordCowboy]

Your right, I hope i didn't offend you i just get carried away sometimes.

Not offended at all...You have a right to say what you want too...Even more since you are in harms way.

Don't think for one minute I don't support you and the troops...I just wish you guys as I'm sure you do...would just come home.

Be safe and good luck!

[BrAinPaiNt]

Not offended at all...You have a right to say what you want too...Even more since you are in harms way.

Don't think for one minute I don't support you and the troops...I just wish you guys as I'm sure you do...would just come home.

Be safe and good luck!

I am of the opinion that there is no higher support of the troops, than to wish them to get out of harms way.

Too many fail to see this and just think that anyone that does not support the war do not support the troops.

[ConcordCowboy]

I am of the opinion that there is no higher support of the troops, than to wish them to get out of harms way.

Too many fail to see this and just think that anyone that does not support the war do not support the troops.

I know and nothing could be further from the truth.

[Hostile]

I am of the opinion that there is no higher support of the troops, than to wish them to get out of harms way.

Too many fail to see this and just think that anyone that does not support the war do not support the troops.In principle I agree with this BP. In practice I don't think it works. I was never in the military, so maybe I'm speaking about something I know nothing about. However, I am pretty sure that if I was in the military I'd be offended by commentary not supporting the war. In fact I know I would be, and I'm not saying that because I support the war. I'm saying that because I've seen the effects of the Viet Nam protests on members of my own family.

There are people who can separate the politics from the soldier, but there just as many who won't. That's why protesters shout "baby killer" at our soldiers. They're trying to guilt people into supporting their politics. Please note that in saying this I am not making a political statement. This practice has been done in military engagements undertaken by both political parties.

Are there people who just want our soldiers home? Yeah, but nobody wants them home more than their own families and their families with rare exceptions are not protesting them being there. Our military have jobs to do. If it wasn't in Iraq and Afghanistan it would be somewhere else. They are always going to be targets of radicals, even when we aren't at war. Personally I'd rather be shot at by insurgents than reviled at home the way our Viet Nam vets were. I'd rather die for my country on foreign soil than listen to their taunts on land I defended.

Sorry, didn't mean to stand on a soapbox and rant. I hope no one is offended by my words.

[BrAinPaiNt]

In principle I agree with this BP. In practice I don't think it works. I was never in the military, so maybe I'm speaking about something I know nothing about. However, I am pretty sure that if I was in the military I'd be offended by commentary not supporting the war. In fact I know I would be, and I'm not saying that because I support the war. I'm saying that because I've seen the effects of the Viet Nam protests on members of my own family.

There are people who can separate the politics from the soldier, but there just as many who won't. That's why protesters shout "baby killer" at our soldiers. They're trying to guilt people into supporting their politics. Please note that in saying this I am not making a political statement. This practice has been done in military engagements undertaken by both political parties.

Are there people who just want our soldiers home? Yeah, but nobody wants them home more than their own families and their families with rare exceptions are not protesting them being there. Our military have jobs to do. If it wasn't in Iraq and Afghanistan it would be somewhere else. They are always going to be targets of radicals, even when we aren't at war. Personally I'd rather be shot at by insurgents than reviled at home the way our Viet Nam vets were. I'd rather die for my country on foreign soil than listen to their taunts on land I defended.

Sorry, didn't mean to stand on a soapbox and rant. I hope no one is offended by my words.

Not a soapbox rant IMO and you bring up some good points.

With any group you will get those that lose the original point and take things way to far.

You use the protesters during Viet Nam to express your point and you are dead on using them. They flat out lost the point and just took things WAY too far.

No returning vet deserved what they got. Those protestors were so far gone they forgot that those men were drafted, not voluntary guys.

However I still hold true to my statement. The best support for the troops is to hope they are out of harms way. Now if people stick to that general principal and not let other things get in the way they are fine.

It is just too bad people get too caught up in their own agenda and they forget the point and are just protesting to be protesting.

Acutally IMO the troops never get enough respect when coming back, and not just from the citizens, but also from the very people that sent them in the first place. I will leave it at that as not to turn it political.

[Hostile]

Not a soapbox rant IMO and you bring up some good points.

With any group you will get those that lose the original point and take things way to far.

You use the protesters during Viet Nam to express your point and you are dead on using them. They flat out lost the point and just took things WAY too far.

No returning vet deserved what they got. Those protestors were so far gone they forgot that those men were drafted, not voluntary guys.

However I still hold true to my statement. The best support for the troops is to hope they are out of harms way. Now if people stick to that general principal and not let other things get in the way they are fine.

It is just too bad people get too caught up in their own agenda and they forget the point and are just protesting to be protesting.

Acutally IMO the troops never get enough respect when coming back, and not just from the citizens, but also from the very people that sent them in the first place. I will leave it at that as not to turn it political.If it stopped at that, I'd agree. I really would. It will never stop at that with far too many people.

Thanks for the great repsonse.

[BrAinPaiNt]

If it stopped at that, I'd agree. I really would. It will never stop at that with far too many people.

Thanks for the great repsonse.


First and foremost I am for the support of the troops and only want them out of harms way.

[Hostile]

First and foremost I am for the support of the troops and only want them out of harms way.I believe that 100%, but it's because I know you BP. Albeit through the void of the Internet, but I know you. I have no reason to be skeptical of you.

Given what has happened in the past to our soldiers I feel they have every right to be skeptical of people they don't know. That's all I'm saying. I wouldn't want to hear these things if I were a soldier because it would remind me of the past and put me on guard immediately.

You put it extremely well. They "lost the point" and went too far. I can't say it any better than that. Sometimes losing the point is innocent and it can still hurt.

Let me give you an example, and I hope this makes sense. I have a friend named Jack. Jack's a Viet Nam vet. We were at a party about a year ago and someone brought up something about a Jane Fonda movie. Jack is a rather gregarious guy, but he got real quiet.

So someone asks Jack if he'd seen the movie. Jack replied that he would never watch a movie she was in. Turns out Jack was in the Hanoi Hilton. None of us knew that except his wife and daughter. He doesn't talk about it. His son-in-law, who is one of my best friend's, didn't even know.

One of our group of partiers, Laurie, is a sweet lady who wouldn't harm a fly. She is very much anti war, and similar to what you are saying she does care about our troops. Naturally people wanted to know about Nam. Laurie was no different. She asked what seemed like innocent questions, but the intent was to find out why Jack served in the first place.

It's like a light went off in my head that day. People actually think soldiers have the option of just walking away from their sworn duty with no repurcussions at all. I know Laurie's intent in asking the things she did and feeling the way she does is because at heart she is a good person. I'm not saying she would call Jack a baby killer. I know she wouldn't. But as tame and innocent as she is, her words and ideas and most of all her probing questions about why he was there hurt Jack.

The thought that wanting them home safe is the highest form of support is a great thought. In principle I agree, there is no higher thought. Not thoughts of honor or duty or praise. Those aren't higher. Sometimes our thoughts and actions don't measure up to our priciples.

I'd better stop talking about this. I worry I'll offend someone and I have no intentions of doing that.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Yes I understand.

And really we are lucky as a country to have a Volunteer military as compared to a drafted army.

It is much different as time changes.

WWII to Viet Nam was a big difference IMO.

Viet Nam to now is much different as well.

And for the record...I don't, to my knowledge, watch Jane either.
The wife bought that movie Monster and law and started watching it. I came in after it started and said is that Jane and she said yes.

I went to another room to read until the movie was over LOL.

I think many people have learned from that era. Not all, but much more now compared to then.

[Hostile]

Yes I understand.

And really we are lucky as a country to have a Volunteer military as compared to a drafted army.

It is much different as time changes.

WWII to Viet Nam was a big difference IMO.

Viet Nam to now is much different as well.

And for the record...I don't, to my knowledge, watch Jane either.
The wife bought that movie Monster and law and started watching it. I came in after it started and said is that Jane and she said yes.

I went to another room to read until the movie was over LOL.

I think many people have learned from that era. Not all, but much more now compared to then.I consider myself very lucky. That's one of the reasons why I am not political or into discussing politics.

I see no benefit to griping about a country that gives me a life I couldn't have anywhere else.

Could things be better? Sure, but accomplishing better has never begun from hatred, and right now the political parties and their sheep hate each other.

What a waste of good life. It's theirs to waste. I have no room to judge how they fill their lives with propoganda. To each his own.