Skins Fans Crying

[KD]

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158676&page=2&pp=15

It would be very interesting to see what the media would be saying if we signed TO and Dallas signed Lloyd and Randle El.

I think Dallas would still be ahead of us in the rankings. In fact, I think we would be even farther down because TO is a cancer and we are overpaying for the aging big name superstar. Whereas, Dallas would have added the final 2 pieces to their Super Bowl puzzle, and their offense would be unstoppable.

[calico]

gotta love it.

The funny thing is that they have serious p evny for Dallas...while Cowboys fans don't even think of them unless Taylor waves a gun around or it is game week.

[Calicowboy]

O brother never mind the obvious talent difference in the players mentioned. Nevermind Snyder's history of overpaying veterans...Nah, let's not tell it like it is.

[thor_01]

if the fans mind set is that defeatist, wonder how the teams attitude is facing him and the rest of the team on the field, could be we win before we ever get on the field, got to love it when they fear us again............

[Hostile]

O brother never mind the obvious talent difference in the players mentioned. Nevermind Snyder's history of overpaying veterans...Nah, let's not tell it like it is.Exactly. I don't like TO, but I'd take him over Lloyd and Randle El put together. Especially for what they cost.

[THUMPER]

Exactly. I don't like TO, but I'd take him over Lloyd and Randle El put together. Especially for what they cost.

My sentiments exactly Hos. Neither Lloyd nor Randle El has ever impressed me much, not that they aren't good players but they aren't THAT good. As much as I dislike Owens I would still put him as one of the best WRs in the game today (top-7 in my rankings but most put him in the top-3).

The Redskins... :lmao2:

[big dog cowboy]

The Redskins... :lmao2:
Some things never change. :skins:

[burmafrd]

since when are skin fans NOT CRYING?

[Alexander]

gotta love it.

The funny thing is that they have serious p evny for Dallas...while Cowboys fans don't even think of them unless Taylor waves a gun around or it is game week.

That's basically it all in one post. Bravo. Well done.

[MossBurner]

Exactly. I don't like TO, but I'd take him over Lloyd and Randle El put together. Especially for what they cost.
Hostile,

You are by far one of the most intelligent posters on this board. I know that you know the 'backloaded' nature of the Skins' FAs' deals. Those players will never see the $30M value of their contracts. They are 25-26 year old guys thrilled to get 7-10M as a signing bonus with a 1-3M base salary for 3-5 years. Then, they will renegotiate or be gone.

All of the Skins' FAs essentially signed 5 year 16M deals, which is a bargain for the team and functionally serves as a test run during the prime of proven veterans.

[Alexander]

Hostile,

You are by far one of the most intelligent posters on this board. I know that you know the 'backloaded' nature of the Skins' FAs' deals. Those players will never see the $30M value of their contracts. They are 25-26 year old guys thrilled to get 7-10M as a signing bonus with a 1-3M base salary for 3-5 years. Then, they will renegotiate or be gone.

All of the Skins' FAs essentially signed 5 year 16M deals, which is a bargain for the team and functionally serves as a test run during the prime of proven veterans.

Sadly, we basically signed Owens (a better talent) to a series of one year deals.

We trumped you.

Again.

[MossBurner]

Sadly, we basically signed Owens (a better talent) to a series of one year deals.

We trumped you.


Yeah, the Boys drew the Queen of Spades. The Skins drew Four Jacks.

[Alexander]

Yeah, the Boys drew the Queen of Spades. The Skins drew Four Jacks.

Four jacks?

A punt returner who was never a starter? A chronic underachiever with an attitude problem? A beat up safety who cannot cover? A supposed pass rusher who couldn't get it done in defense that was tailor-made for his skills?

Sounds like two threes and a couple of face cards.

I'll take the Queen of Spades which gives me four pair.

What you and many forget is that our offseason wasn't just about Owens. Our other acquisitions are just as important. Owens was the icing on the cake.

[sago1]

You don't understand the Redskins mindset. Having a brother who is sadly a Skins fan and becoming very much a homer, he and most of them feel every one they sign is better then the Cowboys. I once said to my brother that we now had probably the best 2-some WR in NFL. He immediately countered that no the Skins have that with the signing of Randal El, Lloyd & Moss. What I pointed out he was discussing 3-some, not the 2-some I stated, he simply said Skins had always been able handle Owens w/o any problem and that Lloyd's potential trumped our TO signing. I countered I was discussing potential with TO & Glenn but proven recent stats; but again all he talked about was El & Lloyde's potential in the Saunders offense & that Williams counter easily counter any offense we could throw at them.

I even mentioned we were going to primarily use 2 TE offense, pointing out versatility he would give us by putting TO & Witten? on one side & Glenn & Fasano? (or was it the other way around re TEs) on other side with Julius Jones in the backfield. No matter he said, Skins would simply counter with 6 DBs if necessary. Finally, I just changed the subject cause there simply no way of getting through to him. And my brother is one smart dude with doctorate, etc.

[iceberg]

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158676&page=2&pp=15

sounds like the same whining i hear here when the cowboys are rated low in any given area. excuse city.

just ironic ot me that while a fan is a fan, we'll bash one set and turn around and do the same thing we bash them for doing. reference the superbowl polls we had not long ago. that was meant to prove homer-ism in DC and yet, we outdid 'em or stayed close in the boards opinion *we* were gonna win it all.

[Alexander]

sounds like the same whining i hear here when the cowboys are rated low in any given area. excuse city.

just ironic ot me that while a fan is a fan, we'll bash one set and turn around and do the same thing we bash them for doing. reference the superbowl polls we had not long ago. that was meant to prove homer-ism in DC and yet, we outdid 'em or stayed close in the boards opinion *we* were gonna win it all.

You are right.

Fans are fans. But Redskin fans are a totally different breed entirely.

You will see homers and whining from every fanbase. But the Redskin fans make a living out of feeling slighted, disrespected and ignored. They spend hours grumbling about Peter King "hating" them, Len Pasquarelli "hating" them and even the local press as having some sort of grudge. That's basically as was stated before: a paranoid mindset coupled with a massive inferiority complex, perhaps a huge case of p envy.

Their jealousy-fueled obsession with a division rival speaks to that. It is always on their minds even though we represent just 2/16ths of their schedule this year and every year.

[iceberg]

You are right.

Fans are fans. But Redskin fans are a totally different breed entirely.

You will see homers and whining from every fanbase. But the Redskin fans make a living out of feeling slighted, disrespected and ignored. They spend hours grumbling about Peter King "hating" them, Len Pasquarelli "hating" them and even the local press as having some sort of grudge. That's basically as was stated before: a paranoid mindset coupled with a massive inferiority complex, perhaps a huge case of p envy.

Their jealousy-fueled obsession with a division rival speaks to that. It is always on their minds even though we represent just 2/16ths of their schedule this year and every year.

well, art doesn't help their cause for being "reasonable" homers, no. : )

[Alexander]

well, art doesn't help their cause for being "reasonable" homers, no. : )

I am not even talking about that pompous windbag who their faithful have built into high status.

I am talking about the majority of their fans. Go visit Extremeskins or CPND.

Homers rule, skeptics are clearly and cleanly dispatched.

They are like Moonies or something. It is amazing. Completely brainwashed.

[iceberg]

I am not even talking about that pompous windbag who their faithful have built into high status.

I am talking about the majority of their fans. Go visit Extremeskins or CPND.

Homers rule, skeptics are clearly and cleanly dispatched.

They are like Moonies or something. It is amazing. Completely brainwashed.

well, i can go to dallascowboyscentral and get the same treatment. booze bans me almost as fast as art would for disagreements.

[Hostile]

Hostile,

You are by far one of the most intelligent posters on this board. I know that you know the 'backloaded' nature of the Skins' FAs' deals. Those players will never see the $30M value of their contracts. They are 25-26 year old guys thrilled to get 7-10M as a signing bonus with a 1-3M base salary for 3-5 years. Then, they will renegotiate or be gone.

All of the Skins' FAs essentially signed 5 year 16M deals, which is a bargain for the team and functionally serves as a test run during the prime of proven veterans.Thank you. Since we're playing "do you understand" I'd like to throw some posers back at ya, if you don't mind.

Yes, I do understand the dynamics of how the Skins repeatedly can sign players to huge contracts and not get bit by it. It isn't impressive because it hasn't paid off. Do you undestand that?

The next question I have for you is, do you understand that you pay more than the monetary value of the contract? Let's take Mark Brunnell for instance. I wanted us to get Brunnell when Jacksonville released him. I make no bones about that. I would have been royally pissed if Dallas had signed him for the amount the Skins did, but even worse you gave up a 2nd round Draft pick to get him before he hit the FA market. In the meantime we got a QB of roughly the same caliber without the huge contract and without sacrifcing draft picks.

Why pay for a guy you can get for much cheaper? It doesn't make much sense.

Lest you think this is the Cowboys homer in me talking let me cite an example where we did similar. We traded Joey Galloway for Keyshawn Johnson whom we already knew was going to be released by Tampa Bay. I wasn't happy about that.

Does this knowledge sit well with you? If it does then I suggest you lack some grasp of the actual dynamics of the game. These players you're signing for large amounts of cash are usually players who get drafted. That's a much cheaper way to acquire talent that can help your team long term. Your team throws away draft picks like they have no value other than as a bargaining chip.

If you were doing this for guys who were NFL All Pros, I could understand it. I could even applaud it. That isn't what you're doing though is it? You mentioned the prime of their playing careers. If their "prime" is only marginal where is the bargain? Do you understand that while Lloyd, Randle El, and Archuleta are more established than rookies would be that their "prime" level of play has never been that much above what a rookie can give you?

My gosh man, you've got Sean Taylor on your football team. You saw what he did as a rookie. Has Archuleta ever come close to that? But you'd rather pay Adam millions than roll the dice in the draft for someone who could probably give you the same results?

Is this sinking in? Hey, applaud the move, at least you get to look at his wife in the stands. We had a guy with a hot wife last year too, Billy Cundiff. Thank heavens he's gone.

The bottom line is, Dan Snyder makes these bold moves every year and they simply don't work out. Who pays for his mistakes? You and your fellow fans do. How? By not having a nucleus of young players you can identify with for a long period of time. All you have is the colors man. That's your team identity. Is it enough? If so then you have lower standards than I do.

Hey, that's not a dig. Maybe mine are too high. I certainly am more frustrated about my team than you seem to be about yours. I'm not into howling at the moon over Free Agents. Don't believe me? Find me a post where I whoop and holler over any over our acquistions in Free Agency. Not even the big ones, TO and Vanderjagt. Our Draft on the other hand, there's where you'll find me excited.

Why? Because I understand that in a parity driven league the only way to be truly happy with your team is to identify with it. I don't identify with retreads for the most part. I appreciate their contributions and I root for them. My team is the guys who are original Cowboys. They're family. The rest are hired hands. Some are better hands and assets than others. They're still just hired hands.

I've got nothing against you at all if the big splashes make you horny. More power to you. Until those big splashes do anything other than stir up the water in your pool, you're still just suffering blue balls with the rest of the unlucky. Meanwhile the rest of the unlucky are building for the long term and having virtually the same success that your team is with all the big splashes.

Seriously, you're good with that? For heaven's sake why?

[TEK2000]

well, i can go to dallascowboyscentral and get the same treatment. booze bans me almost as fast as art would for disagreements.

You're comparing a very small forum of just 2,154 members to a forum of over 56,000 members. The larger forum should be filled with A LOT more varying opinions than the smaller one... but is it that way? Or have all the "glass is half empty" people been shoved out of ES as Alexander states?

[Alexander]

You're comparing a very small forum of just 2,154 members to a forum of over 56,000 members. The larger forum should be filled with A LOT more varying opinions than the smaller one... but is it that way? Or have all the "glass is half empty" people been shoved out of ES as Alexander states?

The thing is the 56,000 members figure is false. The majority of those are not active. Those that are active and dissent are quickly beaten down. And that's natural as a board often takes the personality of those running it.

[big dog cowboy]

I've got nothing against you at all if the big splashes make you horny.
:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[sbuscha]

Hostile,

You are by far one of the most intelligent posters on this board. I know that you know the 'backloaded' nature of the Skins' FAs' deals. Those players will never see the $30M value of their contracts. They are 25-26 year old guys thrilled to get 7-10M as a signing bonus with a 1-3M base salary for 3-5 years. Then, they will renegotiate or be gone.

All of the Skins' FAs essentially signed 5 year 16M deals, which is a bargain for the team and functionally serves as a test run during the prime of proven veterans.

Guess what? It doesn't take an intelligent person to see all the garunteed money that danny boy is giving these over paid, aging vets who, as you say, will never see the end of their contract.

Ah the beauty of an owner who knows how to manage a salary cap and team.

[BigDFan5]

reference the superbowl polls we had not long ago. that was meant to prove homer-ism in DC and yet, we outdid 'em or stayed close in the boards opinion *we* were gonna win it all.


We were nowhere close to them after a few days when I looked at it, We had about 50% to their over 70%

[lspain1]

Ah the beauty of an owner who knows how to manage a salary cap and team.

Our particular owner had to learn some difficult lessons in the school of hard knocks before he came to understand.

The other point I want to make is, in spite of terrible predictions of cap hell year after year, it never seems to happen to the skins. While I do not agree with Snyder's methods, his actions do not prove that his cap management skills are bad.

[iceberg]

We were nowhere close to them after a few days when I looked at it, We had about 50% to their over 70%

and 50% for a team who's not win a playoff game in a decade is a tad *unrealistic*.

[Alexander]

Our particular owner had to learn some difficult lessons in the school of hard knocks before he came to understand.

The other point I want to make is, in spite of terrible predictions of cap hell year after year, it never seems to happen to the skins. While I do not agree with Snyder's methods, his actions do not prove that his cap management skills are bad.

Snyder has learned.

He has stopped with the signing old players to big money.

He tried the trade draft choices for restricted free agents thing. That didn't work with Chad Morton or Laveranues Coles.

He is still doing odd things other than drafting well. And eventually, that will come back to roost.

This isn't the "Over the Hill Gang". Those days are over and frankly, they weren't that great either.

[iceberg]

Our particular owner had to learn some difficult lessons in the school of hard knocks before he came to understand.

The other point I want to make is, in spite of terrible predictions of cap hell year after year, it never seems to happen to the skins. While I do not agree with Snyder's methods, his actions do not prove that his cap management skills are bad.

but he's much more like a fan than a football pro. he does stuff a fan would do in getting any and every name possible.

[BigDFan5]

and 50% for a team who's not win a playoff game in a decade is a tad *unrealistic*.

That would be unrealistic IF the last decade had anything to do with this season. This season is independant of previous seasons. Which still does not negate the fact that the total here was nowhere NEAR the Extremeskins total, like you said

[big dog cowboy]

Snyder has learned.

He has stopped with the signing old players to big money.


A lesson I hope JJ has now learned.

[The30YardSlant]

Somone call the....

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/treblah3/waahmbulance.jpg

[Alexander]

A lesson I hope JJ has now learned.

There is a difference. Jones did that out of loyalty. Ignorant, but admirable.

What Snyder did with Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders and Mark Carrier was just ignorant.

[big dog cowboy]

There is a difference. Jones did that out of loyalty. Ignorant, but admirable.

What Snyder did with Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders and Mark Carrier was just ignorant.
Very true. Different circumstances, same result.

[5Stars]

but he's much more like a fan than a football pro. he does stuff a fan would do in getting any and every name possible.

Hmmm....now, what poster here reminds me of this sentence? :cool:

:star:

[Big Country]

You don't understand the Redskins mindset. Having a brother who is sadly a Skins fan and becoming very much a homer, he and most of them feel every one they sign is better then the Cowboys. I once said to my brother that we now had probably the best 2-some WR in NFL. He immediately countered that no the Skins have that with the signing of Randal El, Lloyd & Moss. What I pointed out he was discussing 3-some, not the 2-some I stated, he simply said Skins had always been able handle Owens w/o any problem and that Lloyd's potential trumped our TO signing. I countered I was discussing potential with TO & Glenn but proven recent stats; but again all he talked about was El & Lloyde's potential in the Saunders offense & that Williams counter easily counter any offense we could throw at them.

I even mentioned we were going to primarily use 2 TE offense, pointing out versatility he would give us by putting TO & Witten? on one side & Glenn & Fasano? (or was it the other way around re TEs) on other side with Julius Jones in the backfield. No matter he said, Skins would simply counter with 6 DBs if necessary. Finally, I just changed the subject cause there simply no way of getting through to him. And my brother is one smart dude with doctorate, etc.

Sago...what's funny about what I bolded is really about WRs in the Saunders offense... I think back to what WRs the KC offense had... ??? The Chiefs have hung their hat on the running game for years now... Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson are monster running backs in that Saunders offense, but receivers??? When you watch NFL Prime Time on Sunday night, no team has more highlights in the running game like KC does. I'm not sure that Portis can do that in Saunders new offense... He is just not the big banger back like Holmes or especially L Johnson... But if they can get a 1 - 2 punch in that type of system, I think Cartwright might get some respectable numbers too... It's gonna take a team effort on that new Skins offense to make a dent against the Dallas D... But for now all that is paper talk... Translation comes in September.

Tony Gonzales is the main receiving weapon in that KC offense... they really don't have much of a WR threat IMO. Can Cooley become the Tony Gonzales of the Redskin offense... Gonzales is a basketball player also and his athletic ability is more evident than Cooley, although Cooley has become a playmaker in his own right. Kennison and Dante Hall don't really scare teams on a consistent basis at reciever... Not that Dante Hall isn't special on special teams or at the end of the game in attack mode against Dallas... :eek:
B Lloyd and the hybrid WR Randle El will have to be patient route runners. It's gonna be interesting how quick Saunders system translates into DC success... My money is on Doomsday.:p:

[Alexander]

Sago...what's funny about what I bolded is really about WRs in the Saunders offense... I think back to what WRs the KC offense had... ??? The Chiefs have hung their hat on the running game for years now... Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson are monster running backs in that Saunders offense, but receivers??? When you watch NFL Prime Time on Sunday night, no team has more highlights in the running game like KC does. I'm not sure that Portis can do that in Saunders new offense... He is just not the big banger back like Holmes or especially L Johnson... But if they can get a 1 - 2 punch in that type of system, I think Cartwright might get some respectable numbers too... It's gonna take a team effort on that new Skins offense to make a dent against the Dallas D... But for now all that is paper talk... Translation comes in September.

Tony Gonzales is the main receiving weapon in that KC offense... they really don't have much of a WR threat IMO. Can Cooley become the Tony Gonzales of the Redskin offense... Gonzales is a basketball player also and his athletic ability is more evident than Cooley, although Cooley has become a playmaker in his own right. Kennison and Dante Hall don't really scare teams on a consistent basis at reciever... Not that Dante Hall isn't special on special teams or at the end of the game in attack mode against Dallas... :eek:
B Lloyd and the hybrid WR Randle El will have to be patient route runners. It's gonna be interesting how quick Saunders system translates into DC success... My money is on Doomsday.:p:

Saunders' coaching past goes well beyond Kansas City. He was a Don Coryell protege. They could just as easily turn to an early 1980s San Diego Chargers system as run a ground offense like he did in KC. Remember, Gibbs won Super Bowls both ways. With a ground attack with Riggins and with a pass attack with Rypien. That's what is right about that system if you get the right players.

[Big Country]

Saunders' coaching past goes well beyond Kansas City. He was a Don Coryell protege. They could just as easily turn to an early 1980s San Diego Chargers system as run a ground offense like he did in KC. Remember, Gibbs won Super Bowls both ways. With a ground attack with Riggins and with a pass attack with Rypien. That's what is right about that system if you get the right players.


I knew Saunders was old school... I was hoping someone could spill more of what Saunders really meant to the league in terms of coaching philosophy and his offensive system's versatility... I just had not researched it in that depth... Thanks Alexander for the heads up post.

[iceberg]

Hmmm....now, what poster here reminds me of this sentence? :cool:

:star:

my guess would be a "fan" - not a coach.

[iceberg]

That would be unrealistic IF the last decade had anything to do with this season. This season is independant of previous seasons. Which still does not negate the fact that the total here was nowhere NEAR the Extremeskins total, like you said

if you go deep into the playoffs, it's NOT unrealistic to think moves made can help push you further. further for them *is* getting to the superbowl

further for *us* is hitting the playoffs.

then winning one.

then building up more as you go.

to think we can go from missing the playoffs 2 straight years to the superbowl and that 1/2 of our fans in here believe that *is* a tad unrealistic.

you sound like you were in that 50% who thinks we can. : )

i agree each year is independant, however, it's still a part of a growth pattern unless you shell the team and start over. seeing as how we've not done that, we're still growing and to simply bypass not winning a playoff game in 10 years to 50% of our fans thinking we'll win it - homers.

not a bad thing at all and not insulting at all - again, it's what most fans do. it's just funny to see them then turn around and point out the same behavior of another team THEN try to justify theirs while in the same breath ripping hte other fans for the very same thing.

homer-crites vs. hypocrites??? >g<

[burmafrd]

The last 10 years how many teams have gone from not making the playoffs to winning it all in one year? Several have. So there is recent historical support for our "homers".

[iceberg]

The last 10 years how many teams have gone from not making the playoffs to winning it all in one year? Several have. So there is recent historical support for our "homers".

so say'eth the "yes-fan".

[rexrobinson]

No matter he said, Skins would simply counter with 6 DBs if necessary.

Putting 6 DBs back to make sure Witten, Fasano, Owens and Glenn are properly covered is playing in to EXACTLY what the 2 TE base set wants.

Julius Jones is licking his chops thinking about that!

[burmafrd]

I know that some here do not like facts since it tends to run counter to their agenda. Look at how many teams have done a huge turnaround- bigger then the one we would do if we win it all this year. And NONE of those teams were projected to accomplish anything near what they did. One can learn from history if one is REASONABLY intelligent.

[iceberg]

I know that some here do not like facts since it tends to run counter to their agenda. Look at how many teams have done a huge turnaround- bigger then the one we would do if we win it all this year. And NONE of those teams were projected to accomplish anything near what they did. One can learn from history if one is REASONABLY intelligent.

feel free to list 'em on out so we can hash this deeper.

[peplaw06]

Putting 6 DBs back to make sure Witten, Fasano, Owens and Glenn are properly covered is playing in to EXACTLY what the 2 TE base set wants.

Julius Jones is licking his chops thinking about that!

Man beat me to it... I wish this guy was the Redskins D Coordinator. :laugh1:

[burmafrd]

Rams the year before they won the SB were not in the playoffs. The Pats First SB came after a non playoff year. They did not make the playoffs the year AFTER their first SB win. Then they won it again. The steelers two years ago were 6-10 and went to 15-1. The Panthers in their SB year came from a losing record to just one or two plays from winning it all. DO you want more?

[Bizwah]

if you go deep into the playoffs, it's NOT unrealistic to think moves made can help push you further. further for them *is* getting to the superbowl

further for *us* is hitting the playoffs.

then winning one.

then building up more as you go.

to think we can go from missing the playoffs 2 straight years to the superbowl and that 1/2 of our fans in here believe that *is* a tad unrealistic.

you sound like you were in that 50% who thinks we can. : )

i agree each year is independant, however, it's still a part of a growth pattern unless you shell the team and start over. seeing as how we've not done that, we're still growing and to simply bypass not winning a playoff game in 10 years to 50% of our fans thinking we'll win it - homers.

not a bad thing at all and not insulting at all - again, it's what most fans do. it's just funny to see them then turn around and point out the same behavior of another team THEN try to justify theirs while in the same breath ripping hte other fans for the very same thing.

homer-crites vs. hypocrites??? >g<

Sorry, but burmafd is right.....

Any team...and I mean any team is capable of a SB run nowadays. That's today's NFL for you. It happens each year. A team that was ho-hum one year, surprises people the next.

How are we any different? How are the Skins any different? How are the Eagles or Giants any different?

Seattle and Denver both went 9-7 in 2004. Denver went deep into the playoffs, and Seattle went to the SB.

Fans see what happened to those teams, and get excited about our possibilities. Why is that unrealistic?

If this was 1995, then I'd see your point. A 9-7 team that missed the playoffs two straight years, would be several good offseasons from competing for a SB.

But not today.

[iceberg]

Rams the year before they won the SB were not in the playoffs. The Pats First SB came after a non playoff year. They did not make the playoffs the year AFTER their first SB win. Then they won it again. The steelers two years ago were 6-10 and went to 15-1. The Panthers in their SB year came from a losing record to just one or two plays from winning it all. DO you want more?

how many of these had no playoff win in 10 years?

i'm not saying it's impossible - i'm saying it would be more likely if we showed we can win a playoff game first.

[iceberg]

Sorry, but burmafd is right.....

Any team...and I mean any team is capable of a SB run nowadays. That's today's NFL for you. It happens each year. A team that was ho-hum one year, surprises people the next.

How are we any different? How are the Skins any different? How are the Eagles or Giants any different?

Seattle and Denver both went 9-7 in 2004. Denver went deep into the playoffs, and Seattle went to the SB.

Fans see what happened to those teams, and get excited about our possibilities. Why is that unrealistic?

If this was 1995, then I'd see your point. A 9-7 team that missed the playoffs two straight years, would be several good offseasons from competing for a SB.

But not today.

it's not unrealistic to get optimistic - part of all the fun. but *to me* (and i try to refrain from this blanket "right/wrong" crap when talking opinions) if you've not shown you're capable of winning a playoff game in the last decade, then why all of a sudden is *this* year of hope and optimism (seems we are every year) THE year it will finally happen?

guess i need more building blocks to help me connect the dots other than
Dallas ------------- superbowl
being all i need to say "it can happen!!!"

can it? sure. odds of it? a little more remote. the skins at least showed they can go deep into the playoffs to have that warm fuzzy.

[Bizwah]

how many of these had no playoff win in 10 years?

How does this factor into the equation? Turnover is so high for every team, only the recent past (one or two years) makes any difference.

But I'll bite....

The Rams for one.....Carolina had playoff woes as well. I don't think they won a playoff game since they beat us. The Seahawks also had their playoff woes....remember the "We'll take the ball, we're gonna score" line from Hasselbeck? I don't remember them winning too many playoff games before last year.

[burmafrd]

I guess its just a little too obvious for some. In todays watered down NFL, when the cap and FA prevents any team from really becoming a monster, then it is a lot easier to go from nothing to winning it all. And not winning a playoff game in 10 years means exactly WHAT? We have not had a really good team in 10 years. OR maybe we had some bad luck, or played a bad game, etc. RECENT history shows that a quick turnaround to winning it all is just about common. 2-4 years is really all that matters in todays NFL. SO if you just go over say the last 5 years- look at the teams that have been in the SB or won it all- HOW many have been in the playoffs EVERY YEAR? OR have won a playoff game recently?

[Alexander]

How does this factor into the equation? Turnover is so high for every team, only the recent past (one or two years) makes any difference.

But I'll bite....

The Rams for one.....Carolina had playoff woes as well. I don't think they won a playoff game since they beat us. The Seahawks also had their playoff woes....remember the "We'll take the ball, we're gonna score" line from Hasselbeck? I don't remember them winning too many playoff games before last year.

Even when you prove his stance wrong, he will spin it another way.

You are wasting your time. That's what happens when you debate with someone whose mind is made up.

In the iceberg world, we didn't do what he wanted so no matter what we are doomed. We didn't draft or sign splashy OL. We still have Coach Parcells as our coach. We are doomed.

[burmafrd]

Even when you prove his stance wrong, he will spin it another way.

You are wasting your time. That's what happens when you debate with someone whose mind is made up.

In the iceberg world, we didn't do what he wanted so no matter what we are doomed. We didn't draft or sign splashy OL. We still have Coach Parcells as our coach. We are doomed.

Seems right to me- but it is fun to keep playing him like a fish on a hook.

[Alexander]

And not winning a playoff game in 10 years means exactly WHAT?

It means nothing. Except in the minds of some fans who have high standards, yet have no clue how the sport actually works. Everyone expects to win. But a smart person can see why we didn't, see what we are doing to get it right and quits living in the past.

[Bizwah]

it's not unrealistic to get optimistic - part of all the fun. but *to me* (and i try to refrain from this blanket "right/wrong" crap when talking opinions) if you've not shown you're capable of winning a playoff game in the last decade, then why all of a sudden is *this* year of hope and optimism (seems we are every year) THE year it will finally happen?

guess i need more building blocks to help me connect the dots other than
Dallas ------------- superbowl
being all i need to say "it can happen!!!"

can it? sure. odds of it? a little more remote. the skins at least showed they can go deep into the playoffs to have that warm fuzzy.

I'll also say that several NFL pundits agree with some "unrealistic" fans.

Some have picked us to win it all.

Now, I'm not ready to go that far yet. I'll think we'll make the playoffs if we stay healthy, but I don't think any fans being unrealistic to call it.

I'm still trying to understand how not winning a playoff game in ten years has any relevance to us possibly winning a SB this year.

[5Stars]

I guess its just a little too obvious for some. In todays watered down NFL, when the cap and FA prevents any team from really becoming a monster, then it is a lot easier to go from nothing to winning it all. And not winning a playoff game in 10 years means exactly WHAT? We have not had a really good team in 10 years. OR maybe we had some bad luck, or played a bad game, etc. RECENT history shows that a quick turnaround to winning it all is just about common. 2-4 years is really all that matters in todays NFL. SO if you just go over say the last 5 years- look at the teams that have been in the SB or won it all- HOW many have been in the playoffs EVERY YEAR? OR have won a playoff game recently?

I also think Iceberg is forgetting who all the "coaches" were for most of those last 10 years, and who was doing the "drafting" during most of those 10 years...

:star:

[Alexander]

I also think Iceberg is forgetting who all the "coaches" were for most of those last 10 years, and who was doing the "drafting" during most of those 10 years...

:star:

It doesn't matter.

He wants results and wants them NOW.

[5Stars]

I'm still trying to understand how not winning a playoff game in ten years has any relevance to us possibly winning a SB this year.

It doesn't have any relevance at all...


It's like saying New Orleans has not had a bad hurricane in the last 30 years...and then BOOM!

:star:

[iceberg]

It doesn't matter.

He wants results and wants them NOW.

how can i ask for results NOW when i'm NOT the one advocating we're gonna win the superbowl this year?????? the results i want is PROGRESS to make that a more realistic goal. i would say those harping we can and *will* win it this year want results NOW.

alexander, that statement kinda blows me away. all along on several forums i've HATED this "shotgun approach" we're on now that's designed to WIN NOW cause i want to build for LONG TERM - which IS NOT winning NOW, now is it?

[iceberg]

It doesn't have any relevance at all...


It's like saying New Orleans has not had a bad hurricane in the last 30 years...and then BOOM!

:star:

wow - blinders are in full force, i see.

show me where i said we *could* NOT win the superbowl.

never said it, so you can't but have fun looking if you wish.

what i did say is it's not realistic to think we can not only make the playoffs for the 3rd time in 10 years BUT win a game THEN win 2-3 games THEN win the superbowl ALL THIS YEAR. to use your own example, it's like every year predicting a "katrina" and it never happens for 29 years? does that mean in year 30 it won't happen? nope. it sure could. but that doesn't make the prediction *that year* and more valid than the 29 that wiffed.

could it happen? YES IT SURE AS HELL COULD!!!

is it likely, no.

have several pundants picked us to win it? i'm sure they have. i also notice those who pick us are either smart already or got it right THIS time yet those who don't are morons. parcells can be a pro coach and we shouldn't question his moves but a pro analyst who does NOT pick you doesn't all of a sudden have the same leeway, they're morons who "don't understand".

several more "pundants" have picked others to win.

again - possible? yes. likely, no.

now will i still go out and try to enjoy the sesaon and hope we are indeed making progress??? YES!!!!! but in the meantime i'm going to call it as i see it and see how it plays out, not sit here happy and "if all the breaks go out way we rule!!!!".

there are many fan types - i'm just one of 'em but we're all fans of the same team. not blowing "rah rah" smoke up my own arse doesn't mean i'm not a fan of this team.

[iceberg]

I guess its just a little too obvious for some. In todays watered down NFL, when the cap and FA prevents any team from really becoming a monster, then it is a lot easier to go from nothing to winning it all. And not winning a playoff game in 10 years means exactly WHAT? We have not had a really good team in 10 years. OR maybe we had some bad luck, or played a bad game, etc. RECENT history shows that a quick turnaround to winning it all is just about common. 2-4 years is really all that matters in todays NFL. SO if you just go over say the last 5 years- look at the teams that have been in the SB or won it all- HOW many have been in the playoffs EVERY YEAR? OR have won a playoff game recently?

so - you can't tell me a team that's not won a playoff game in 10 year who did turn around and win the superbowl to end that drought.

all you had to say.

[iceberg]

Even when you prove his stance wrong, he will spin it another way.

You are wasting your time. That's what happens when you debate with someone whose mind is made up.

In the iceberg world, we didn't do what he wanted so no matter what we are doomed. We didn't draft or sign splashy OL. We still have Coach Parcells as our coach. We are doomed.

oh good lord dude - if we go into a point already disagreeing it's quite likely we'll come out disagreeing. NEITHER OF US is spinning a thing, just talking our views and trying to clarify what we say when misunderstood.

you call that clarification spinning, i call it talking to find the common ground.

whatever. but since you didnt' either understand or agree with my point to begin with you'd think further discussion would be just further discussion - NOT spinning.

you seem to want me to be exactly what you need me to be alexander and your mind is already made up about how i feel.

sound familiar?

[TEK2000]

how can i ask for results NOW when i'm NOT the one advocating we're gonna win the superbowl this year?????? the results i want is PROGRESS to make that a more realistic goal. i would say those harping we can and *will* win it this year want results NOW.

alexander, that statement kinda blows me away. all along on several forums i've HATED this "shotgun approach" we're on now that's designed to WIN NOW cause i want to build for LONG TERM - which IS NOT winning NOW, now is it?

How is this team not built for LONG TERM? We have older players at QB, WR, and a few older OLinemen. Every other position on our team is YOUNG! Our ENTIRE defense is young!

In the last 2 offseasons we've completely redesigned our defense as well as much of our offense.

The progress here is that EVERY TEAM in our division is likely in the hunt for a playoff spot... its not like we went out and played nothing but crappy teams last season and wound up barely making it to 9-7. We played good quality teams and were only blown out of 1 game.

You're talking like we haven't made ANY improvements in the last 10 years.

[iceberg]

How is this team not built for LONG TERM? We have older players at QB, WR, and a few older OLinemen. Every other position on our team is YOUNG! Our ENTIRE defense is young!

In the last 2 offseasons we've completely redesigned our defense as well as much of our offense.

The progress here is that EVERY TEAM in our division is likely in the hunt for a playoff spot... its not like we went out and played nothing but crappy teams last season and wound up barely making it to 9-7. We played good quality teams and were only blown out of 1 game.

You're talking like we haven't made ANY improvements in the last 10 years.

no, i'm talking about the areas we've still got to go to be a young LONG HAUL team.

what's my focus been? OL, QB and some TO hatred. is this not consistant? i think we overfocus on the defense and not enough on the offense. i think our defense IS a more solid unit - easily.

would it help if i had a mandatory 3 post per day RAH RAH OUR DEFENSE RULES post?

[Alexander]

no, i'm talking about the areas we've still got to go to be a young LONG HAUL team.

What does this mean?

And what NFL team fits that definition?

what's my focus been? OL, QB and some TO hatred. is this not consistant? i think we overfocus on the defense and not enough on the offense. i think our defense IS a more solid unit - easily.

You get points for consistency. But insane people are often quite consistent. They just expect different results. Not that I am implying you are insane, you know.

[iceberg]

What does this mean?

And what NFL team fits that definition?

You get points for consistency. But insane people are often quite consistent. They just expect different results. Not that I am implying you are insane, you know.

so now i'm insane, alexander? (not gonna buy the "but i'm not calling YOU insane reference right after you just heavily implied it) way to give alternative thinking some leeway. what's funny is YOU seem to feel if they don't do it my way i stomp my foot. yet, if i don't think YOUR way, i'm insane.

who's now less "forgiving" here???

[peplaw06]

so - you can't tell me a team that's not won a playoff game in 10 year who did turn around and win the superbowl to end that drought.

all you had to say.

The Seahawks hadn't won a playoff game since 1984 before this year. They didn't win the SB, but they were there...

Before the Pats went to the SB in 1996, their last playoff win was in 1985. Again they didn't win that SB, but if that's all your argument's hinging on, it's pretty weak.

Before the Bucs went on their SB run, they had won exactly 3 playoff games in their Franchise's history!

The Ravens won the SB in 2000 and the last playoff win they had was in 1994 in Cleveland.

Again if the Ten Year number is all your argument's hinging on, it's very weak. You have to take into account how long the age of parity has been around. It's only the last decade that has seen teams go from no where into the playoffs and sometimes the SB. So finding a team that has gone 10 years is impossible, because this is a recent trend. In today's NFL it can happen.

[iceberg]

The Seahawks hadn't won a playoff game since 1984 before this year. They didn't win the SB, but they were there...

Before the Pats went to the SB in 1996, their last playoff win was in 1985. Again they didn't win that SB, but if that's all your argument's hinging on, it's pretty weak.

Before the Bucs went on their SB run, they had won exactly 3 playoff games in their Franchise's history!

The Ravens won the SB in 2000 and the last playoff win they had was in 1994 in Cleveland.

Again if the Ten Year number is all your argument's hinging on, it's very weak. You have to take into account how long the age of parity has been around. It's only the last decade that has seen teams go from no where into the playoffs and sometimes the SB. So finding a team that has gone 10 years is impossible, because this is a recent trend. In today's NFL it can happen.

well in peoples usual effort to slap what you don't like 1st, understand later.

"can it happen" - FRIGGING YES.
"is it likely" - NO.

and great, i did figure there would be a few teams, i just didn't have time to go look. now, if i can name some that haven't done it in 10 years, and have an optomistic fan base about *this* year - most fans would think those fans crazy for thinking they could make it.

hell, the skins got close LAST YEAR and we're busy ripping them up for daring to think they got better while we pull rare examples out to illustrate the potential for success.

CAN IT HAPPEN? yes.
do i think it will? no.
COULD I BE WRONG? sure.
how do we find out? continue discussion later.

now i wish people who are arguing against my point would show me where i DID IN FACT SAY it can't happen before they'd go off and reply to my posts as if i did say that.

[peplaw06]

well in peoples usual effort to slap what you don't like 1st, understand later.

"can it happen" - FRIGGING YES.
"is it likely" - NO.

and great, i did figure there would be a few teams, i just didn't have time to go look. now, if i can name some that haven't done it in 10 years, and have an optomistic fan base about *this* year - most fans would think those fans crazy for thinking they could make it.

hell, the skins got close LAST YEAR and we're busy ripping them up for daring to think they got better while we pull rare examples out to illustrate the potential for success.

CAN IT HAPPEN? yes.
do i think it will? no.
COULD I BE WRONG? sure.
how do we find out? continue discussion later.

now i wish people who are arguing against my point would show me where i DID IN FACT SAY it can't happen before they'd go off and reply to my posts as if i did say that.
Well what team "IS LIKELY" to win the SB this year?? Every team has a better chance of NOT winning the SB than they do of winning the SB. :) I think the Boys are currently getting the best odds in Vegas right (??). I know that has to do with money actually placed, but oddsmakers have something to say about that.

We're not arguing that you said it's impossible for it to happen (no more than we're saying IT WILL happen), we're just trying to show you examples that support the fact that there can be optimism about this season. I guess that's the difference between us though. Some people just can't be optimistic.

[burmafrd]

Well YOU were the one that kept HARPING on the 10 year thing.
Since you got owned on that- now you are changing your tune.
TYPICAL.

[wesleyc288]

Thank you. Since we're playing "do you understand" I'd like to throw some posers back at ya, if you don't mind.

Yes, I do understand the dynamics of how the Skins repeatedly can sign players to huge contracts and not get bit by it. It isn't impressive because it hasn't paid off. Do you undestand that?

The next question I have for you is, do you understand that you pay more than the monetary value of the contract? Let's take Mark Brunnell for instance. I wanted us to get Brunnell when Jacksonville released him. I make no bones about that. I would have been royally pissed if Dallas had signed him for the amount the Skins did, but even worse you gave up a 2nd round Draft pick to get him before he hit the FA market. In the meantime we got a QB of roughly the same caliber without the huge contract and without sacrifcing draft picks.

Why pay for a guy you can get for much cheaper? It doesn't make much sense.

Lest you think this is the Cowboys homer in me talking let me cite an example where we did similar. We traded Joey Galloway for Keyshawn Johnson whom we already knew was going to be released by Tampa Bay. I wasn't happy about that.

Does this knowledge sit well with you? If it does then I suggest you lack some grasp of the actual dynamics of the game. These players you're signing for large amounts of cash are usually players who get drafted. That's a much cheaper way to acquire talent that can help your team long term. Your team throws away draft picks like they have no value other than as a bargaining chip.

If you were doing this for guys who were NFL All Pros, I could understand it. I could even applaud it. That isn't what you're doing though is it? You mentioned the prime of their playing careers. If their "prime" is only marginal where is the bargain? Do you understand that while Lloyd, Randle El, and Archuleta are more established than rookies would be that their "prime" level of play has never been that much above what a rookie can give you?

My gosh man, you've got Sean Taylor on your football team. You saw what he did as a rookie. Has Archuleta ever come close to that? But you'd rather pay Adam millions than roll the dice in the draft for someone who could probably give you the same results?

Is this sinking in? Hey, applaud the move, at least you get to look at his wife in the stands. We had a guy with a hot wife last year too, Billy Cundiff. Thank heavens he's gone.

The bottom line is, Dan Snyder makes these bold moves every year and they simply don't work out. Who pays for his mistakes? You and your fellow fans do. How? By not having a nucleus of young players you can identify with for a long period of time. All you have is the colors man. That's your team identity. Is it enough? If so then you have lower standards than I do.

Hey, that's not a dig. Maybe mine are too high. I certainly am more frustrated about my team than you seem to be about yours. I'm not into howling at the moon over Free Agents. Don't believe me? Find me a post where I whoop and holler over any over our acquistions in Free Agency. Not even the big ones, TO and Vanderjagt. Our Draft on the other hand, there's where you'll find me excited.

Why? Because I understand that in a parity driven league the only way to be truly happy with your team is to identify with it. I don't identify with retreads for the most part. I appreciate their contributions and I root for them. My team is the guys who are original Cowboys. They're family. The rest are hired hands. Some are better hands and assets than others. They're still just hired hands.

I've got nothing against you at all if the big splashes make you horny. More power to you. Until those big splashes do anything other than stir up the water in your pool, you're still just suffering blue balls with the rest of the unlucky. Meanwhile the rest of the unlucky are building for the long term and having virtually the same success that your team is with all the big splashes.

Seriously, you're good with that? For heaven's sake why?



Post of the year!!!!!!

[iceberg]

Well YOU were the one that kept HARPING on the 10 year thing.
Since you got owned on that- now you are changing your tune.
TYPICAL.

"got owned" - what are you - 12?

and if you're not smart enough to understand what i was saying ABOUT that 10 year thing, ain't my fault. i'm not changing my tune at all, i just need to really dumb it down for you dude.

now can we quit being 12?

[iceberg]

Well what team "IS LIKELY" to win the SB this year?? Every team has a better chance of NOT winning the SB than they do of winning the SB. :) I think the Boys are currently getting the best odds in Vegas right (??). I know that has to do with money actually placed, but oddsmakers have something to say about that.

We're not arguing that you said it's impossible for it to happen (no more than we're saying IT WILL happen), we're just trying to show you examples that support the fact that there can be optimism about this season. I guess that's the difference between us though. Some people just can't be optimistic.

and that's fair enough. as i said, it *can* happen. sounds like you agree with me on "odds" and all so now it's more or less down to overall posting history and who's happy and who's bitter. : )

as for the 10 year thing - just to toss out a question... has any team gone 10+ years w/o a playoff win to at least being in the superbowl? i'll agree it may not mean much either way but now i'm curious.

[BigDFan5]

if you go deep into the playoffs, it's NOT unrealistic to think moves made can help push you further. further for them *is* getting to the superbowl

further for *us* is hitting the playoffs.

then winning one.

then building up more as you go.

to think we can go from missing the playoffs 2 straight years to the superbowl and that 1/2 of our fans in here believe that *is* a tad unrealistic.

you sound like you were in that 50% who thinks we can. : )

i agree each year is independant, however, it's still a part of a growth pattern unless you shell the team and start over. seeing as how we've not done that, we're still growing and to simply bypass not winning a playoff game in 10 years to 50% of our fans thinking we'll win it - homers.

not a bad thing at all and not insulting at all - again, it's what most fans do. it's just funny to see them then turn around and point out the same behavior of another team THEN try to justify theirs while in the same breath ripping hte other fans for the very same thing.

homer-crites vs. hypocrites??? >g<

Again you are using past seasons to try and justify THIS season. The Panthers were 1-15 in 2001, 7-9 in 2002 and then they were in the superbowl in 2003, then they went 7-9 again and back to the NFC championship.

Previous seasons and where a team finished has no affect on the current season. Past history shows us this. Jacksonville was 4-12 and went to AFC championship the following year, Tampa from 9-7 to Superbowl, Baltimore from 8-8 to superbowl, New York Giants from 7-9 to the superbowl, Titans from 8-8 to Superbowl, Rams 4-12 to NFC Championship, Falcons 5-11 to the NFC Championship, Seattle from 9-7 to superbowl, Pitt from 6-10 to AFC championship.

See I would agree it was unrealistic if it was not a normal occurence, but it happens almost every year. Will we win the Superbowl, probably not, but it is possible and not unrealistic considering the improvements we have made and the fact that team improve dramatically every year.

[Hostile]

Post of the year!!!!!!Thanks, it got buried in the avalanche.

:grin:

[iceberg]

Again you are using past seasons to try and justify THIS season. The Panthers were 1-15 in 2001, 7-9 in 2002 and then they were in the superbowl in 2003, then they went 7-9 again and back to the NFC championship.

Previous seasons and where a team finished has no affect on the current season. Past history shows us this. Jacksonville was 4-12 and went to AFC championship the following year, Tampa from 9-7 to Superbowl, Baltimore from 8-8 to superbowl, New York Giants from 7-9 to the superbowl, Titans from 8-8 to Superbowl, Rams 4-12 to NFC Championship, Falcons 5-11 to the NFC Championship, Seattle from 9-7 to superbowl, Pitt from 6-10 to AFC championship.

See I would agree it was unrealistic if it was not a normal occurence, but it happens almost every year. Will we win the Superbowl, probably not, but it is possible and not unrealistic considering the improvements we have made and the fact that team improve dramatically every year.

so then we agree. what i'm ont gonna do is haggle over the ultimate defination of "unrealistic" cause overall i think we agree on that it could happen, not a HUGE chance of it happening, so the rest are the shades of gray where in the end we agree anywy.

[burmafrd]

Ice- I guessed you missed peps post that mentioned that Seattle had not won a playoff game since 1984 before this year. The Pats when they went tothe SB in 1996 had not won a playoff game since 1985. So there are TWO EXAMPLES for you. NOT that it mattered. If you cannot see that many teams have gone from not making the playoffs (like us) to winning it all or making it to the SB, thats your problem. It has happened almost EVERY YEAR for the last 8 or so years.

[BigDFan5]

as for the 10 year thing - just to toss out a question... has any team gone 10+ years w/o a playoff win to at least being in the superbowl? i'll agree it may not mean much either way but now i'm curious.

Bengals had never won a playoff game when they made the Bowl in 1981 they never won a playoffgame after that agin until returning to the Superbowl in 1988

The bears had won 1 playoff game in over 20 years before winning the superbowl

Broncos went 9 years without a playoff win before making superbowl

Dallas won 1 playoff game in 10 years before making the superbowl, Alternately the Cowboys had 7 straight winning seasons where they didnt sniff a superbowl

Colts went 9 years with no playoff wins before making a superbowl

Carolina had won 1 playoff game in their history before making a superbowl

Miami 10 years without a playoff win to a SuperBowl

Patriots 9 years without a playoff win to superbowl, they also had another run of 22 years with no playoff wins to a superbowl

San Fran went 10 years without a playoff win before winning a superbowl

Seattle went 21 years without a playoff win before making the superbowl

San Diego 1 playoff win in 12 years before making a superbowl

Tennesee 1 playoff win in 10 years before making a superbowl

Washington 29 years with no playoff wins before making a superbowl, Then another 10 years with no playoff wins before winning a superbowl

[iceberg]

Bengals had never won a playoff game when they made the Bowl in 1981 they never won a playoffgame after that agin until returning to the Superbowl in 1988

The bears had won 1 playoff game in over 20 years before winning the superbowl

Broncos went 9 years without a playoff win before making superbowl

Dallas won 1 playoff game in 10 years before winning the superbowl, Alternately the Cowboys had 7 straight winning seasons where they didnt sniff a superbowl

Colts went 9 years with no playoff wins before making a superbowl

Carolina had won 1 playoff game in their history before making a superbowl

Miami 10 years without a playoff win to a SuperBowl

Patriots 9 years without a playoff win to superbowl, they also had another run of 22 years with no playoff wins to a superbowl

San Fran went 10 years without a playoff win before winning a superbowl

Seattle went 21 years without a playoff win before making the superbowl

San Diego 1 playoff win in 12 years before making a superbowl

Tennesee 1 playoff win in 10 years before making a superbowl

Washington 29 years with no playoff wins before making a superbowl, Then another 10 years with no playoff wins before winning a superbowl

props for digging all that up - a lot of work and i *do* appreciate it.

and burm - i saw it and i replied to another saying HE (and bidgfan5) were making good points to my questions/concerns, not just saying i'm insane.

or implying it with that built in back door again. : )

thanks big - i'll give it some thought before pushing on.

[BigDFan5]

so then we agree. what i'm ont gonna do is haggle over the ultimate defination of "unrealistic" cause overall i think we agree on that it could happen, not a HUGE chance of it happening, so the rest are the shades of gray where in the end we agree anywy.

Only reason I replied in the first place is the incorrect statement you made and still havent backed off of.

reference the superbowl polls we had not long ago. that was meant to prove homer-ism in DC and yet, we outdid 'em or stayed close in the boards opinion *we* were gonna win it all.


It wasn't close at all, they were 20% higher than us. Then you went on to rail people who think it could happen as unrealistic homers. When the past tells us it is not unrealistic to believe it could happen.

[SantanaOwnsU]

I don't think its homerism for either the Skins or Cowboys to believe they can win the superbowl this year. Both teams have veteran coaching staffs, solid defenses, and both made big improvements on offense. I expect us to at least go deep into the playoffs...I hope we get enough breaks to make it to the big game. If we make it, I'm sure we'll win it.

[peplaw06]

I don't think its homerism for either the Skins or Cowboys to believe they can win the superbowl this year. Both teams have veteran coaching staffs, solid defenses, and both made big improvements on offense. I expect us to at least go deep into the playoffs...I hope we get enough breaks to make it to the big game. If we make it, I'm sure we'll win it.

Wow a sane and lucid post from SantanaOwnsU. I'm shocked. ;)

[5Stars]

Wow a sane and lucid post from SantanaOwnsU. I'm shocked. ;)

All except the last sentenance!

I wish I could see the future like this RedStink! :rolleyes:

:star:

[SantanaOwnsU]

I've got all the faith in the world in Joe Gibbs. His superbowl record is above average. If we're good enough of a team to make it to the big one, Gibbs will push us over the top. I wouldn't doubt Parcells in a superbowl either.

[5Stars]

I've got all the faith in the world in Joe Gibbs. His superbowl record is above average. If we're good enough of a team to make it to the big one, Gibbs will push us over the top. I wouldn't doubt Parcells in a superbowl either.

Yeah, I guess your right...however, this is not a "strike season", where the Almighty Gibbs won two of his tarnished trophys...

I bet the janitor is STILL trying to shine those two up...:cool:

:star:

[burmafrd]

The second one the strike was very short and did not cause too much disruption unlike the first one- so that one is a little iffy to count as tarnished.

[needforspeed]

sounds like the same whining i hear here when the cowboys are rated low in any given area. excuse city.

just ironic ot me that while a fan is a fan, we'll bash one set and turn around and do the same thing we bash them for doing. reference the superbowl polls we had not long ago. that was meant to prove homer-ism in DC and yet, we outdid 'em or stayed close in the boards opinion *we* were gonna win it all.

I'm asking this in all sincerity: are you a Cowboys fan or do you support one of the other NFL franchises? I ask this because, after reading your posts, I'm a little confused. Of course, the possibility exists that you just like to be contrary. Can you shed a little light on the subject?

[5Stars]

The second one the strike was very short and did not cause too much disruption unlike the first one- so that one is a little iffy to count as tarnished.

No problem...

But the Cowboys SB trophys are shining like a Star! There are no "iffy" on those...

:star:

[burmafrd]

some people just like to go contrary to the accepted norm.
MOST people who call themselves Cowboy Fans believe that we will be better this year and most of the so called experts agree. Just how much better is the real question. In TODAYS watered down NFL when teams go from losing records to playing in the SB almost every year, for a team that just missed the playoffs- mainly due to missed FG's(and have gotten a top kicker now to address that problem)-and has added a top WR in addition to a good draft- AND has reasonable expectations of considerable improvement to the main weakness of the year before-its O line- a deep playoff run- maybe even making the SB- does not seem that big a leap to take.

[iceberg]

I'm asking this in all sincerity: are you a Cowboys fan or do you support one of the other NFL franchises? I ask this because, after reading your posts, I'm a little confused. Of course, the possibility exists that you just like to be contrary. Can you shed a little light on the subject?

oh i'm a definate cowboys fan. but my idea of it's not sitting there saying "yes sir may i have another" in regard to whatever move they feel like making.

sorry that doesn't seem to meet with *your* idea of how a fan should act.

[5Stars]

oh i'm a definate cowboys fan. but my idea of it's not sitting there saying "yes sir may i have another" in regard to whatever move they feel like making.

sorry that doesn't seem to meet with *your* idea of how a fan should act.

And, you know what's funny about it?

YOU CAN'T DO NOTHING ABOUT IT! :)

:lmao:

[iceberg]

And, you know what's funny about it?

YOU CAN'T DO NOTHING ABOUT IT! :)

:lmao:

did i ever say i could? can *any* fan do *anything* about it?

you read way too much into this dude.

[CrazyCowboy]

Whine....baby whine.

[StylisticS]

It's what they do best.

[jimmy40]

gotta love it.

The funny thing is that they have serious p evny for Dallas...while Cowboys fans don't even think of them unless Taylor waves a gun around or it is game week.7 pages of my fellow Cowboys fans not thinking about the Redskins. :rolleyes:

[Bizwah]

The second one the strike was very short and did not cause too much disruption unlike the first one- so that one is a little iffy to count as tarnished.

Actually, the second strike was disrupted by the "Replacements". The Redskins had one of the better groups of replacement players....I don't need to remind you that their replacements beat a Cowboy team with several stars that crossed the line.

So, I don't think it's too iffy to call that one tarnished. Only one game was missed, but the replacements played in a few games.

[BigDFan5]

7 pages of my fellow Cowboys fans not thinking about the Redskins. :rolleyes:

Maybe you should read the thread since most of this thread was talking about the Cowboys not the Redskins

[BigDFan5]

props for digging all that up - a lot of work and i *do* appreciate it.

and burm - i saw it and i replied to another saying HE (and bidgfan5) were making good points to my questions/concerns, not just saying i'm insane.

or implying it with that built in back door again. : )

thanks big - i'll give it some thought before pushing on.


Thanks Ice, and agains I am not saying we are a lock for the superbowl. Just that coming off a 9-7 season where even the coach agrees with a kicker we would have won a couple more game, added to obvious improvements in the kicking game, WR core, LB core, and IMO OLine. That it is not homerish or ridiculous to for 50% of Cowboys fans to *think* we could make the superbowl after seeing how often things like this occur.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Yeah, I guess your right...however, this is not a "strike season", where the Almighty Gibbs won two of his tarnished trophys...

I bet the janitor is STILL trying to shine those two up...:cool:

:star:


So if the Cowboys had beaten the Redskins in the 1982 NFC Championship game then went on to beat the Dolphins in Superbowl 17 would that Superbowl be "tarnished? :confused:

Somehow I dont think so

[Alexander]

So if the Cowboys had beaten the Redskins in the 1982 NFC Championship game then went on to beat the Dolphins in Superbowl 17 would that Superbowl be "tarnished? :confused:

Somehow I dont think so

You know every Redskin fan would be saying the very same thing if the tables were turned.

[2much2soon]

You know every Redskin fan would be saying the very same thing if the tables were turned.


que crickets where skins fans were previously typing...

[SkinsHokieFan]

You know every Redskin fan would be saying the very same thing if the tables were turned.


Not if you beat us to win the Superbowl

The 1982 Cowboys could have stopped the Redskins cold and won on to take the big prize

Washington won it. At that point, any trash talking Cowboy fans had to say about the strike shortened season ended right there

As it would have for Redskins fans had the tables been turned

Similar to us trying to talk trash about sweeping you in 1995. You simply point to that shiney 5th Lombardi in your trophy case

[iceberg]

Thanks Ice, and agains I am not saying we are a lock for the superbowl. Just that coming off a 9-7 season where even the coach agrees with a kicker we would have won a couple more game, added to obvious improvements in the kicking game, WR core, LB core, and IMO OLine. That it is not homerish or ridiculous to for 50% of Cowboys fans to *think* we could make the superbowl after seeing how often things like this occur.

thank you. i love talking and even arguing when arrogance is not a motive. : )

are we a lock? nope.

can it happen? sure it can.

but for a puzzle to become complete, all the pieces must fit.

we're forcing too many pieces.

and i'll disagree still. 50% is a representation of a fan based # that sees only the positives working out. NOT dealing with the crap that doesn't work out.

many pros feel we'll have a great year.

i'm a fan who think we're set up for huge disappointment.

i ain't swallowing bp's bait cause i see be as someone in it for him, not the game. could i be wrong?

yep.

but i could be right too.

we'll see later.

thanks for the solid convo man. and again, props to you for how you present your thoughts. i should take note. : )

[SkinsandTerps]

What is the quote that Parcells had ?

You are what your record says you are ?

I know it was along those lines.

Redskins won during those years, beat the teams they needed to beat.

It is what it is.

[big dog cowboy]

You are what your record says you are.........

:lombardi:

[Gamebreaker]

You know every Redskin fan would be saying the very same thing if the tables were turned.

So you're pretty much admitting anyone calling that trophy "tarnished" is just whining. Regardless, I haven't seen every Cowboys fan call that SB win tarnished, just one idiot who rehashes the same 3 arguments no matter what the discussion is about.

[Gamebreaker]

You are what your record says you are.........

:lombardi:

Parcells in the Superbowl: 1-1

[SkinsandTerps]

Parcells in the Superbowl: 1-1

:bang2:

That would be 2-1 as a HC.

[BigDFan5]

Parcells in the Superbowl: 1-1


haha check again

[Hostile]

Parcells in the Superbowl: 1-1I found your hat.

http://www.ronjo.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000002/dunce-cap.gif

[burmafrd]

If Pettiti does not develope we have Fabini. If Kosier does not look great we still have a shot with Peterman and Proctor- at the very least we have Gurode if we do not pick someone up. And guards are a lot easier to get then tackles. So even if only 50% there works out we are going to be better then we were last year.

[Bob Sacamano]

but for a puzzle to become complete, all the pieces must fit.

we're forcing too many pieces.

and yet you're unhappy because we didn't draft an Oline starter...

sorry, just finding an inconsistency in your argument :)

[5Stars]

So you're pretty much admitting anyone calling that trophy "tarnished" is just whining. Regardless, I haven't seen every Cowboys fan call that SB win tarnished, just one idiot who rehashes the same 3 arguments no matter what the discussion is about.

:lmao:

Your joke of a team cannot even win the SuperBowl right! Those two trophys are as rusty as an old nail...yet, here the RedStinks come, to gaze all starry eyed, proud as can be, little chests poking out, at two of the most tarnished SuperBowl trophys there are! :lmao2:


The Cowboys FIVE (5) SUPERBOWL TROPHYS are shining like the day the team won them...against full professional NFL rosters...not like St. Gibby won his...against some street construction workers, truck drivers, and garbage collectors!

Man, on, man, it must really suck to be a RedStink fan! Especially you RedStink fans that just showed up THIS YEAR! By the way, where have you been...in the closet? :lmao: Now, you're over at this forum, trying to hang with a real football team?

I feel sorry for you....(nah, you deserve it)! :lmao2:

[iceberg]

and yet you're unhappy because we didn't draft an Oline starter...

sorry, just finding an inconsistency in your argument :)

you do that.

[EGG]

I'm glad I read this thread,,, I'd forgotten all about the Skins trophies being tarnished! LMAO,,,, A strike season SB trophy should be melted down and turned into bullets for DC Police Department,,, :laugh1:

[Teague31]

every year the skins think that this is the year that danny boy's ridiculous free agent signings will pay off. wrong again. none of the guys they signed is better than an average player in this league and they gave them stupid $. been there, done that.. nothing to see here. move along. :lmao2:

[SantanaOwnsU]

Tarnished superbowl trophies huh? You think Gibbs has any say over whether or not there's a strike season? No. His bust is in the Hall of Fame, I don't see any asterix next to it saying anything about a strike season next to his 3 Superbowl trophies. Gibbs is a Redskin for life. Loyal to the team until he dies. Enjoy your journeyman coach with a 2-1 Superbowl record, he'll be gone after this year. And if he goes to the Hall (he probably will) it'll be as a Giant or a Patriot. He hasn't done anything with the cowboys...all this last stop in his coaching career has done is TARNISH his legacy. I'll take Joe Gibbs, lifelong Redskin, 3-1 Superbowl record 17-5 Playoff record.

[iceberg]

Tarnished superbowl trophies huh? You think Gibbs has any say over whether or not there's a strike season? No. His bust is in the Hall of Fame, I don't see any asterix next to it saying anything about a strike season next to his 3 Superbowl trophies. Gibbs is a Redskin for life. Loyal to the team until he dies. Enjoy your journeyman coach with a 2-1 Superbowl record, I'll take Joe Gibbs, lifelong Redskin, 3-1 Superbowl record 17-5 Playoff record.

ignore 'em dude. if we had won it i doubt they'd be saying we have 5 and a half tropies.

[Bob Sacamano]

you do that.

I already did...

you sure like to make stuff up as you go along don't you?

[5Stars]

I'll take Joe Gibbs, lifelong Redskin, 3-1 Superbowl record 17-5 Playoff record.

Please do! Take them as far away as possible!

As far as astericks needed by St. Gibbs's plastic bust in the Hall Of Shame, people don't need reminders that Gibby won two of his tarnished, rusty trophys against a bunch of street football players! :lmao:

But, I will say this...those tarnished trophys fit St. Gibbs perfectly! Both are fake...

:lmao2:

:dissskin:

[iceberg]

I already did...

you sure like to make stuff up as you go along don't you?

why do you sit there and try to pick fights by being a total stainwad?

you got a problem w/me - PM me and let's work it out. otherwise cut this crap out.

[SantanaOwnsU]

Please do! Take them as far away as possible!

As far as astericks needed by St. Gibbs's plastic bust in the Hall Of Shame, people don't need reminders that Gibby won two of his tarnished, rusty trophys against a bunch of street football players! :lmao:

But, I will say this...those tarnished trophys fit St. Gibbs perfectly! Both are fake...

:lmao2:

:dissskin:

Alright, now you're just being asinine. Plastic bust? Hall Of Shame? The man has 3 rings. No matter what they mean to you, they count. The man will go down as a coaching legend. Not to mention what he does off the field and his Nascar success. He is a winner and a class act, if you don't know that you don't know football.

[AsthmaField]

Not to mention what he does off the field and his Nascar success.

What does Gibbs do off the field? And if he's a lifelong Redskin... why did he quit for over a decade to play with cars and sell batteries?

Doesn't he embarass you as a fan when he starts whining incessently about the officiating? Sending film to the NFL offices? :laugh1: You know, for all that film he sent to the NFL office last year... not one thing was done to any of the officiating crews... nothing. Don't you think that if Gibbs would've had a legitimate gripe that something would've been done? I mean, Tags is a Redskins fan after all... it seems like had the officiating been wrong at all, something would've been done, doesn't it?

[peplaw06]

Tarnished superbowl trophies huh? You think Gibbs has any say over whether or not there's a strike season? No. His bust is in the Hall of Fame, I don't see any asterix next to it saying anything about a strike season next to his 3 Superbowl trophies. Gibbs is a Redskin for life. Loyal to the team until he dies. Enjoy your journeyman coach with a 2-1 Superbowl record, he'll be gone after this year. And if he goes to the Hall (he probably will) it'll be as a Giant or a Patriot. He hasn't done anything with the cowboys...all this last stop in his coaching career has done is TARNISH his legacy. I'll take Joe Gibbs, lifelong Redskin, 3-1 Superbowl record 17-5 Playoff record.

Just to clarify... you don't go into the HOF representing any team. Parcells doesn't have to make the decision "what cap to wear" like in the baseball HOF. Saying BP has tarnished his legacy by coaching the Cowboys is asinine. He took a team of scrubs into the playoffs his first year. And now he's changed the philosophy of the team while putting a nucleus of young guys that will set us up for years to come. I guess you don't know anything about drafting a nucleus though:rolleyes:

And if you want to talk about journeymen coaches... remind me, how many coaches have the Redskins had over the franchise's existence?? Hell Danny boy alone has fired almost as many coaches as the Cowboys. Gibbs is a journeyman too, he just goes from NFL to NASCAR instead of NFL team to NFL team. And after this year BP will match Gibbs record in Super Bowls:)

[SantanaOwnsU]

What does Gibbs do off the field? And if he's a lifelong Redskin... why did he quit for over a decade to play with cars and sell batteries?

Doesn't he embarass you as a fan when he starts whining incessently about the officiating? Sending film to the NFL offices? :laugh1: You know, for all that film he sent to the NFL office last year... not one thing was done to any of the officiating crews... nothing. Don't you think that if Gibbs would've had a legitimate gripe that something would've been done? I mean, Tags is a Redskins fan after all... it seems like had the officiating been wrong at all, something would've been done, doesn't it?

He quit for a decade to spend time with his family, he was burnt out. Sleeping in his office, 18 to 20 hour days watching film and meeting with coaches. He went into Nascar with his son so they could so something together. His son now runs the day to day opperations for Joe Gibbs racing. Its been a pretty successful venture, ask some Nascar fans down there in Texas, I'm not a big Nascar guy. Off the field Coach Gibbs started Youth for Tomorrow, here's a link. http://www.youthfortomorrow.org/ Not to mention his many speeches and books about living a Christian life through the teachings of .

As far as sending in film, when he thinks they missed a call, its all he can do. He's not calling out officials like Mark Cuban, all he's saying is he thinks they missed a call, here's the film. Tell me you saw that Tampa Bay game. Mike Alstott didn't get in. I don't care who you root for, I've had many Tampa fans come up to me and tell me they saw his elbow touch the ground before he reached the ball over the goal line. If we would have won that game we would have probably won the NFC East and gotten a 1st round bye in the playoffs. So every play of every game counts. That's why he sends in the film.

[5Stars]

What does Gibbs do off the field? And if he's a lifelong Redskin... why did he quit for over a decade to play with cars and sell batteries?

Doesn't he embarass you as a fan when he starts whining incessently about the officiating? Sending film to the NFL offices? :laugh1: You know, for all that film he sent to the NFL office last year... not one thing was done to any of the officiating crews... nothing. Don't you think that if Gibbs would've had a legitimate gripe that something would've been done? I mean, Tags is a Redskins fan after all... it seems like had the officiating been wrong at all, something would've been done, doesn't it?

Gibby has already started moaning and groaning this year already! He started whining about having a two or three early road trips!

He fits right in with Lil Danny who likes to jump up and down, up and down, like a little kid with his binky in his hand...ON NATIONAL TV! :lmao:

Now, that is embarrassing! :lmao2:

[peplaw06]

He quit for a decade to spend time with his family, he was burnt out. Sleeping in his office, 18 to 20 hour days watching film and meeting with coaches.


:violin:

[SantanaOwnsU]

Alright. I can't sit at my computer all day and defend Joe Gibbs. I know deep down, past all the Redskins and Cowboys hatred, you respect Coach Gibbs. If you don't, then you're just as classless and ignorant as your boy Terrell Owens. 14-13 then 35-7, that's all you need to know about Joe Gibbs. I'm out.

[Bob Sacamano]

14-13 then 35-7, that's all you need to know about Joe Gibbs. I'm out.

how about 2-4

[5Stars]

Alright. I can't sit at my computer all day and defend Joe Gibbs. I know deep down, past all the Redskins and Cowboys hatred, you respect Coach Gibbs. If you don't, then you're just as classless and ignorant as your boy Terrell Owens. 14-13 then 35-7, that's all you need to know about Joe Gibbs. I'm out.

What? No Sean Taylor history lesson? :lmao:

You're "out" alright! You got knocked out! :lmao2:

[5Stars]

how about 2-4

What about the, uh, um, last 7 or 8 years? Can you teach us about that? :lmao:

[Gamebreaker]

If we would have won that game we would have probably won the NFC East and gotten a 1st round bye in the playoffs. So every play of every game counts. That's why he sends in the film.

The league also sent the Redskins a letter of apology for that play, essentially agreeing that the officials screwed the pooch. There were one or two other games last season where letters were sent as well, I can't remember exactly which two they were.

[AsthmaField]

The league also sent the Redskins a letter of apology for that play, essentially agreeing that the officials screwed the pooch. There were one or two other games last season where letters were sent as well, I can't remember exactly which two they were.

Any links for any of that? I haven't heard anything about the NFL apologizing for the Tampa call. Until I see a link for that or get some sort of proof, I'll call BS on that one.

[5Stars]

The league also sent the Redskins a letter of apology for that play, essentially agreeing that the officials screwed the pooch. There were one or two other games last season where letters were sent as well, I can't remember exactly which two they were.

How cute! Did those letters make Gibby and Lil Danny cheer up and go into happy land? :rolleyes:

Parcells said he "would never send in tape or complain" like Gibbs does! He says the game is played on the field, win or lose...any moaning or groaning after the fact is just poor sportmanship, period!

And, that poor sportsmanship trickles down to the fans...because after every loss...it one excuse after another. :cool:

:dissskin:

[BigDFan5]

When Joe Gibbs was burned out he found time to purchase a small share of the Atlanta Falcons, and interview to be their coach

[Hostile]

Alright. I can't sit at my computer all day and defend Joe Gibbs. I know deep down, past all the Redskins and Cowboys hatred, you respect Coach Gibbs. If you don't, then you're just as classless and ignorant as your boy Terrell Owens. 14-13 then 35-7, that's all you need to know about Joe Gibbs. I'm out.Ask Moss Flamer if you can borrow his hat.



Decade of the 60's, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 10 wins.
Washington, 7 wins.
2 ties.



Decade of the 70's, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 11 wins.
Washington, 9 wins.



Decade of the 80's, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 9 wins.
Washington, 9 wins.



Decade of the 90's, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 12 wins.
Washington, 8 wins.



2000 through 2005, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 9 wins.
Washington, 3 wins.



Translation, take your weak "2005 we swept you" smack, stand in our shadow, and shiver from the cold.

[BigDFan5]

Ask Moss Flamer if you can borrow his hat.

Decade of the 60's, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 10 wins.
Washington, 7 wins.
2 ties.



Decade of the 70's, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 11 wins.
Washington, 9 wins.



Decade of the 80's, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 9 wins.
Washington, 9 wins.



Decade of the 90's, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 12 wins.
Washington, 8 wins.



2000 through 2005, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 9 wins.
Washington, 3 wins.



Translation, take your weak 2005 we swept you smack, stand in our shadow and shiver from the cold.


:lmao: :lmao2:

[5Stars]

Translation, take your weak 2005 we swept you smack, stand in our shadow and shiver from the cold.

:lmao: ...oh, man!

:lmao2:

[AsthmaField]

As far as sending in film, when he thinks they missed a call, its all he can do.

No, he could also do nothing. The vast majority of coaches do like Parcells and simply move on to the next game. They view it as they shouldn't have put themselves in a position for one call to lose the game for them.

Parcells has said that he knows the refs do the best job they can and that mistakes are going to be made. He's never sent film to the NFL about a bad call ever. It's whining and there isn't anything you can do about it after the matter.

Tell me you saw that Tampa Bay game. Mike Alstott didn't get in. I don't care who you root for, I've had many Tampa fans come up to me and tell me they saw his elbow touch the ground before he reached the ball over the goal line.

I did see that game and play and the replay (over and over). He got in. Redskin fans love to post all kinds of pictures of Allstott's elbow on the ground short of the goalline... but what they fail to see or understand, is that before those pictures were taken, that elbow (and the ball) had crossed the plane of the goalline and then Allstott was pushed back where he fell on the ground short of the goalline. Why you guys fail to see that I don't know. I saw his elbow cross the plane and then clearly saw him go backwards as he got pushed back. Even being pushed back the ball was just a couple of inches short. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if he got pushed back and was only a couple inches short when he landed, that the ball had to have crossed the plane.

Bubba on ES posted picture after picture of Allstott's elbow on the ground with all kinds of circles and arrows... he had gotten them from his TIVO. When a Cowboy fan asked him to post an earlier picture from when Allstott was still up (when the elbow did cross the line) he completely ignored the guy. When the guy asked again, Bubba had some stupid answer that the pictures were cropped. LOL. It had nothing to do with anything... he just didn't want to post the pic from when the ball was across the plane.

If you had some Tampa fans who said he didn't cross... either they were uninformed or simply didn't want to argue with you about something that couldn't be changed.

Say what you want... I saw with my own eyes how Allstott was pushed back and know too well the little fantasy that Redskin fans came up with to justify Gibbs throwing his fit about it.

All that is not even mentioning that the refs looked at it on instant replay and still said he crossed the plane.

He scored.

So every play of every game counts. That's why he sends in the film.

Of course each play counts... but like I've already mentioned a couple of times... sending film to the NFL isn't going to change a thing. Its sour grapes if you ask me... and it isn't only Cowboy fans that feel that way. A lot of people around the NFL feel like Gibbs is throwing a fit because the questionable call didn't go his way. Maybe if he would send in the questionable calls that went FOR the Redskins, he would have a little sympathy in that... but no way. He's fine with the questionable calls that get his team a score... it's the one's that hurt him that he screams about. That's why some call him a hypocrit.

[big dog cowboy]

Ask Moss Flamer if you can borrow his hat.

Decade of the 60's, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 10 wins.
Washington, 7 wins.
2 ties.

Decade of the 70's, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 11 wins.
Washington, 9 wins.

Decade of the 80's, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 9 wins.
Washington, 9 wins.

Decade of the 90's, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 12 wins.
Washington, 8 wins.

2000 through 2005, Dallas vs. Washington

Dallas, 9 wins.
Washington, 3 wins.

Translation, take your weak "2005 we swept you" smack, stand in our shadow, and shiver from the cold.
Owned.