CBS Sportsline - Overrated & Underrated players from each team

[MossBurner]

Good read.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9542704

Dallas Cowboys

Overrated: Williams is a good player when near the line of scrimmage, but he can't be called a top-tier safety because he struggles so much in coverage. He's a decent, not great player. His reputation would lead you to believe he was great.
Underrated: Drew Bledsoe is one of those quarterbacks who always gets picked apart, no matter what he does. But he had a heck of a year for the Cowboys, throwing for 3,639 yards and 23 touchdowns.

New York Giants

Overrated: Tight end Jeremy Shockey is a good player, but he should be a great one. He needs more focus. If that happens, watch out. Until then, he's not as good as many think.
Underrated: Guard Chris Snee is a nasty mauler who will soon be a Pro Bowl player. He won't back down from anyone and he's key to getting Tiki Barber all those yards.

Philadelphia Eagles

Overrated: Defensive end Jevon Kearse isn't the player he was with the Titans. He doesn't have the same burst and opponents don't have to account for on every play. He's still pretty good, but no longer an elite pass rusher.
Underrated: Right guard Shawn Andrews is developing into one of the better guards in the NFC. He can overpower an opponent.

Washington Redskins

Overrated: Safety Adam Archuleta is a big hitter who has made some big plays, but he is a liability in coverage and isn't worth the money the 'Skins paid him.
Underrated: Fellow safety Sean Taylor is a monster player whose talent has been overshadowed by his off-field incident. He's an elite safety.

[TheHustler]

You know whats overrated? The overrating of Roy Williams, everyone and their mother does it now. Apparently now he's no more than an in the box scrub. He's not a top-tier safety? That's laughable.

[tyke1doe]

You know whats overrated? The overrating of Roy Williams, everyone and their mother does it now. Apparently now he's no more than an in the box scrub. He's not a top-tier safety? That's laughable.

Even though he hasn't been playing in the box since his rookie year, when he was absolutely devastating. :rolleyes:

[tyke1doe]

I guess you have to have hair growing out your helmet and running manically around the field or return an INT 100 yards to be called a great safety these days. :rolleyes:

[1fisher]

Good read.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9542704

Dallas Cowboys

Overrated: Williams is a good player when near the line of scrimmage, but he can't be called a top-tier safety because he struggles so much in coverage. He's a decent, not great player. His reputation would lead you to believe he was great.
Underrated: Drew Bledsoe is one of those quarterbacks who always gets picked apart, no matter what he does. But he had a heck of a year for the Cowboys, throwing for 3,639 yards and 23 touchdowns.

New York Giants

Overrated: Tight end Jeremy Shockey is a good player, but he should be a great one. He needs more focus. If that happens, watch out. Until then, he's not as good as many think.
Underrated: Guard Chris Snee is a nasty mauler who will soon be a Pro Bowl player. He won't back down from anyone and he's key to getting Tiki Barber all those yards.

Philadelphia Eagles

Overrated: Defensive end Jevon Kearse isn't the player he was with the Titans. He doesn't have the same burst and opponents don't have to account for on every play. He's still pretty good, but no longer an elite pass rusher.
Underrated: Right guard Shawn Andrews is developing into one of the better guards in the NFC. He can overpower an opponent.

Washington Redskins

Overrated: Safety Adam Archuleta is a big hitter who has made some big plays, but he is a liability in coverage and isn't worth the money the 'Skins paid him.
Underrated: Fellow safety Sean Taylor is a monster player whose talent has been overshadowed by his off-field incident. He's an elite safety.


Underrated: Drew Bledsoe is one of those quarterbacks who always gets picked apart, no matter what he does. But he had a heck of a year for the Cowboys, throwing for 3,639 yards and 23 touchdowns.

Imagine what he would have done with a decent line in front of him. Before Flo went down he was playing lights out!

If Taylor gets his head on straight he could very well be one of the best in the league!

[superpunk]

You know whats overrated? The overrating of Roy Williams, everyone and their mother does it now. Apparently now he's no more than an in the box scrub. He's not a top-tier safety? That's laughable.

I'm sure people will overrate him all the way to another pro-bowl bid this year. They'll overrate him to a plethora of bone-crunching hits, and game-changing plays. They might even overrate him straight to making just as many plays on the ball as "elite" safeties do.

If he's this good when he's overrated, I'm gonna love watching him when he earns his billing.

[superpunk]

Not sure Taylor qualifies for underrated either. Most people know just how good he is. It's like the people who still say Tiki Barber is underrated. If people know he's underrated, is he really underrated anymore?

Bledsoe doesn't qualify either.

Terrence Newman - underrated, by everyone but those who know what he accomplished last year - which is surprisingly not many.

[MossBurner]

You know whats overrated? The overrating of Roy Williams, everyone and their mother does it now. Apparently now he's no more than an in the box scrub. He's not a top-tier safety? That's laughable.

Before I say anything, I think Roy is a very good SS - one of the best at his position. I don't think Roy would be a good FS, though.

Without a doubt - if Roy didn't have a star on his helmet, he would not be as hyped as he is.

[1fisher]

I'm sure people will overrate him all the way to another pro-bowl bid this year. They'll overrate him to a plethora of bone-crunching hits, and game-changing plays. They might even overrate him straight to making just as many plays on the ball as "elite" safeties do.

If he's this good when he's overrated, I'm gonna love watching him when he earns his billing.


I would rather have him on my team even if the "know it alls" think he's overrated!

[superpunk]

Before I say anything, I think Roy is a very good SS - one of the best at his position. I don't think Roy would be a good FS, though.


My guess is - that's why he doesn't play FS.

Call me crazy....

[MichaelWinicki]

If he's this good when he's overrated, I'm gonna love watching him when he earns his billing.

Whenver that is going to happen. :rolleyes:

Maybe when we remove the "free safety" excuse... er... reason for his shatty coverage ability and his progressively lousy tackling skills.

[Bull Frog]

Good read.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9542704

Dallas Cowboys

Overrated: Williams is a good player when near the line of scrimmage, but he can't be called a top-tier safety because he struggles so much in coverage. He's a decent, not great player. His reputation would lead you to believe he was great.
Underrated: Drew Bledsoe is one of those quarterbacks who always gets picked apart, no matter what he does. But he had a heck of a year for the Cowboys, throwing for 3,639 yards and 23 touchdowns.

New York Giants

Overrated: Tight end Jeremy Shockey is a good player, but he should be a great one. He needs more focus. If that happens, watch out. Until then, he's not as good as many think.
Underrated: Guard Chris Snee is a nasty mauler who will soon be a Pro Bowl player. He won't back down from anyone and he's key to getting Tiki Barber all those yards.

Philadelphia Eagles

Overrated: Defensive end Jevon Kearse isn't the player he was with the Titans. He doesn't have the same burst and opponents don't have to account for on every play. He's still pretty good, but no longer an elite pass rusher.
Underrated: Right guard Shawn Andrews is developing into one of the better guards in the NFC. He can overpower an opponent.

Washington Redskins

Overrated: Safety Adam Archuleta is a big hitter who has made some big plays, but he is a liability in coverage and isn't worth the money the 'Skins paid him.
Underrated: Fellow safety Sean Taylor is a monster player whose talent has been overshadowed by his off-field incident. He's an elite safety.
Coincindentally I did a search earlier today on another issue and ran across this from 2005.

Overrated: Roy Williams, safety

He makes some big hits and that earns him a lot of attention. The reality is he isn't that good in coverage -- and that shows up. He's more like a linebacker than a safety, which is why he will play strong safety this season after playing free safety a bunch in 2004.

Overrated: Adam Archuleta, safety

He played with a sore back last season, and it showed. But even healthy he isn't the player he's made out to be. He can hit like a linebacker, but he covers like one, too. At safety, that's not good.

I guess not much has changed in a year. They had Runyan as overrated last year, but I guess he was surpassed by Kearse.

[MossBurner]

Not sure Taylor qualifies for underrated either. Most people know just how good he is.

Apparently people don't know how good he is because Taylor hasn't been to the pro bowl yet.

He is by far the best FS in the NFC and has been snubbed both years.

He will be a pro-bowler this year and a candidate for DPOY.

[1fisher]

Before I say anything, I think Roy is a very good SS - one of the best at his position. I don't think Roy would be a good FS, though.

Without a doubt - if Roy didn't have a star on his helmet, he would not be as hyped as he is.

all the "hype" seems to be negative by the mediots!

[Vintage]

For Redskins fans who may not have clicked on the link....


Sure, he makes those highlight hits. But for every one of those, there's two misses in coverage. That's not good enough.
There is no way he's a better safety than Adrian Wilson of the Cardinals or Sean Taylor of the Redskins, two players who should have gone to the Pro Bowl ahead of Williams.

[superpunk]

Whenver that is going to happen. :rolleyes:

It already has.

Maybe when we remove the "free safety" excuse... er... reason for his shatty coverage ability and his progressively lousy tackling skills.
Boy....clutch air on the best TE ever to play the game and all of a sudden your tackling skills are lousy?

Tough crowd.

[Vintage]

Roy was not only on the most overrated list, but was recognized in the article as the most overrated player in the league.

Ian Scott, DT for the Bears, was listed as the league's most underrated.

[superpunk]

Apparently people don't know how good he is because Taylor hasn't been to the pro bowl yet.

He is by far the best FS in the NFC and has been snubbed both years.

He will be a pro-bowler this year and a candidate for DPOY.

Whoa, let's not go nuts. Brian Dawkins still plays in the NFC, last I checked, as does Darren Sharper. (Sharper not as good as either Dawk or Taylor, but he'll nab the INTs.)

[superpunk]

Every highlight hit = 2 misses in coverage.

That's not a gross exagerration or anything.

[Vintage]

Every highlight hit = 2 misses in coverage.

That's not a gross exagerration or anything.

For who?

Taylor? Or Williams?

[The30YardSlant]

He is by far the best FS in the NFC and has been snubbed both years.

Brian Dawkins would disagree with you

[littlewebs]

I find it ridiculous that 3 plays have turned Roy Williams into the league's most overrated player. Yeah let's forget the other 500 plays where he was great and just focus on 2 deep balls to Santana Moss and 1 missed tackle on Tony Gonzalez. I mean, if he can't stop those guys he is clearly terrible.

For crying out loud, Sean Taylor got burned by Terry Glenn (in Skins fans' minds a far inferior receiver to Moss) in the SAME GAME as Moss beat Roy. But he's revolutionizing the safety position and Roy sucks in coverage. Whatever, happy 300 for me I guess.

[The30YardSlant]

Everytime Skins fans bring up how bad RW is in coverage, I pose this question:

How many plays can you name in which Roy Williams wa beaten badly in coverage?

I can name 6 in just 2 years for Sean Taylor

I can only think of 3 for RW in 4 years

Just because Taylor is faster does not mean he is great in coverage

[superpunk]

For who?

Taylor? Or Williams?

Williams.

Or any player in the entire league. Unless you count Mario Edwards circa 2003....

[Fla Cowpoke]

Sean Taylor goes to bed at night praying to become as good as Roy Williams is.

And what is this about Roy's tackling ability? The guy misses a tackle every once in a while, but in general he is one of the most sure tacklers on the team.

[Fla Cowpoke]

And I guess no one is buying the Cowboy coaches assertion that Moss wasn't Roy's responsibility on either play. He was trying to help cover someone else's bust.

But that doesn't matter, it was Williams that ended up the closest to him...it's his fault.

[1fisher]

I find it ridiculous that 3 plays have turned Roy Williams into the league's most overrated player. Yeah let's forget the other 500 plays where he was great and just focus on 2 deep balls to Santana Moss and 1 missed tackle on Tony Gonzalez. I mean, if he can't stop those guys he is clearly terrible.

For crying out loud, Sean Taylor got burned by Terry Glenn (in Skins fans' minds a far inferior receiver to Moss) in the SAME GAME as Moss beat Roy. But he's revolutionizing the safety position and Roy sucks in coverage. Whatever, happy 300 for me I guess.


Oh, and lets not forget that dredful day in December, 2004 when a rookie 7th round pick (correct me if I'm wrong) torched taylor for the game winning TD! Beaten by the arm of Vinny Testeverde! I was at that game and in the endzone where it all took place! Sean who???:lmao2:

[MarionBarberThe4th]

If Aaron Glenn didnt blow the Redskin game last year, no one would sat all this Roy cant cover stuff

How many plays does he make? Fumbles forced? Routes altered?

Sean Taylor is ranked higher than Roy by some people, and Ive read he is a HOF'er allready hes overrated

Mine:
Cowboys: Over: FLozell
Underrated: Newman

Eagles: Over: Mcnabb
Under: LJ Smith

Skins: Over: Cooley
Under: M. Washington

Giants: Eli
Under: Gibril Wilson

[littlewebs]

Everytime Skins fans bring up how bad RW is in coverage, I pose this question:

How many plays can you name in which Roy Williams wa beaten badly in coverage?

I can name 6 in just 2 years for Sean Taylor

I can only think of 3 for RW in 4 years

Just because Taylor is faster does not mean he is great in coverage

I think the 5 extra speed points in Madden is one of the main reasons for this perception. No one will admit it, though. I personally think it has slowly brainwashed everybody, because speed is everything in defensive coverage on Madden.

And by the way, I've never seen anyone answer the "how many plays can you name RW being beat?" question ever. It is always ignored. You can count on it.

[HTownCowboysFan]

You know whats overrated? The overrating of Roy Williams, everyone and their mother does it now. Apparently now he's no more than an in the box scrub. He's not a top-tier safety? That's laughable.


I'll agree with the coverage stuff, but he's not a FS, so there's a big difference. The thing is is that RW is a "playmaker;" he has intangables that most safeties to not.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

And I guess no one is buying the Cowboy coaches assertion that Moss wasn't Roy's responsibility on either play. He was trying to help cover someone else's bust.

But that doesn't matter, it was Williams that ended up the closest to him...it's his fault.


Glenn didnt force Moss inside. If he did Roy would of been able to make a play, as it was Roy had to cover one guy down the middle, and one guy on the outside, either way, someone was going to score on that play bc of Glenn.

IMO on the 2nd one, Roy should of been deeper and he did make a mistake

[superpunk]

Lots of agreement here.

Sean Taylor is, and will be, a fantastic player in the league, I'd love to have him next to Roy.

It is incredibly interesting, however - that Roy makes more plays, and gets beat less (or no more), than Taylor - and he's been doing it longer - but Roy is overrated, and Taylor is underrated.

And someone said Roy would face more criticism if not for the star.

[The30YardSlant]

Lots of agreement here.

Sean Taylor is, and will be, a fantastic player in the league, I'd love to have him next to Roy.
It is incredibly interesting, however - that Roy makes more plays, and gets beat less (or no more), than Taylor - and he's been doing it longer - but Roy is overrated, and Taylor is underrated.

And someone said Roy would face more criticism if not for the star.

I wouldnt

Not only is he a complete idiot, has legal troubles, and presents himself like a buffon to everyone he comes in contact with, but he is not a team player and tries to make the highlight real instead of sticking to his assignment

[MossBurner]

My guess is - that's why he doesn't play FS.

Call me crazy....

My point was that elite safeties in the league, like Taylor, Dawkins, Reed, Polamalu are all capable of playing either S position.

Roy is not, just like Archuleta is not. Thus, neither are elite.

[MossBurner]

For crying out loud, Sean Taylor got burned by Terry Glenn (in Skins fans' minds a far inferior receiver to Moss) in the SAME GAME as Moss beat Roy. But he's revolutionizing the safety position and Roy sucks in coverage. Whatever, happy 300 for me I guess.

Big difference - Sean bit on a flea flicker, he didn't get toasted.

[The30YardSlant]

My point was that elite safeties in the league, like Taylor, Dawkins, Reed, Polamalu are all capable of playing either S position.

Roy is not, just like Archuleta is not. Thus, neither are elite.

Charlie Waters could only play 1 safety position, and yet was arguably the best safety in football for a time in the 70s

[BrAinPaiNt]

Big difference - Sean bit on a flea flicker, he didn't get toasted.

I guess the end result is the same though.

Or one could argue that instead of doing his assignment his mental makeup allowed himself to be beat.

Wasn't that similar to the excuse that people used for him when he got beat by Crayton?

It would pretty much fit seeing that he seems to do many stupid things since joining the league.

[The30YardSlant]

Big difference - Sean bit on a flea flicker, he didn't get toasted.

:lmao2:

So instead of simply getting beat (like he did by 7th round rookie Patrick Crayton the year before and by rookie Reggie Brown - twice - last season) he was too stupid to recognize a flea flicker when Glenn didnt try and sell AT ALL?

Damn, that's the man I want in my defensive backfield

[Vintage]

My point was that elite safeties in the league, like Taylor, Dawkins, Reed, Polamalu are all capable of playing either S position.

Roy is not, just like Archuleta is not. Thus, neither are elite.

To be honest, I've always wondered if we'd have been better off grabbing Levi Jones in Round 1, followed by Michael Lewis in Round 2 in 2002.

The difference between Roy and Michael is smaller than Levi and Rob Pettiti.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Thats what a Flea Flicker is, it takes advantage of a safety who bites

[The30YardSlant]

Thats what a Flea Flicker is, it takes advantage of a safety who bites

And considering Glenn ran a fly route and did not attempt to sell the run (like he did against KC), Taylor had no business getting burned

[MossBurner]

Wasn't that similar to the excuse that people used for him when he got beat by Crayton?


I don't pretend to know Gregg Williams' playbook and Sean's responsibility on the flea flicker to Terry Glenn. If he was indeed the deepest defender, then yes he made a mistake by biting on the fake.

But not once can I remember Sean getting outright toasted by someone on his third of the field, like Roy twice last season by Santana.

Taylor had to cover a ton of ground to get anywhere near Crayton on that 2004 play. As I remember, he was well inside the hashes. He didn't blow an assignment; he was a split second late in saving the CB's poor play.

[The30YardSlant]

I don't pretend to know Gregg Williams' playbook and Sean's responsibility on the flea flicker to Terry Glenn. If he was indeed the deepest defender, then yes he made a mistake by biting on the fake.

But not once can I remember Sean getting outright toasted by someone on his third of the field, like Roy twice last season by Santana.

Taylor had to cover a ton of ground to get anywhere near Crayton on that 2004 play. As I remember, he was well inside the hashes. He didn't blow an assignment; he was a split second late in saving the CB's poor play.

Roy got beat only once by Santana, how many times must we go over this with you and your ilk? Aaron Glenn blew it on the other TD, not Roy

[MossBurner]

Roy got beat only once by Santana, how many times must we go over this with you and your ilk? Aaron Glenn blew it on the other TD, not Roy

Santana beat Glenn on both plays, yes. But Roy was first helper on both plays.

[Vintage]

Roy got beat only once by Santana, how many times must we go over this with you and your ilk? Aaron Glenn blew it on the other TD, not Roy

Well, he is a Redskins fan.

[Vintage]

Santana beat Glenn on both plays, yes. But Roy was first helper on both plays.

Then, by your logic, Taylor was burnt by Crayton, since Taylor was first helper.

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Chocolate Lab]

Just when I think I can't get any sicker of seeing some mediot say "Roy is overrated" (and can you really be overrated to begin with when everyone says you're not really that good?), another article like this comes along.

It's almost as bad as Skins fans incessantly beating their chests about how great Taylor is, and the only reason everyone doesn't realize it is that the man keeps putting him down. :rolleyes:

[The30YardSlant]

Santana beat Glenn on both plays, yes. But Roy was first helper on both plays.

Damn, it gets tiring correcting your posts

First of all, RW was not deep enough on the first TD to Moss, and yes that was his fault. However, i was Glenn who Moss beat, not RW. The TD was Williams' fault not because he got "beat", but because he failed to drop another 5-10 yards or so.

The second TD was all on Glenn, he went for deflection/INT instead of just staying with Moss. He had good coverage and not until he dove for the ball did Moss blow by him. Ha he not played the ball but instead played the WR, Moss either does not catch it or is tackled as soon as he does.

In summation: Only 1 TD was Roy's fault, Moss only beat Glenn once, and the second TD was Glenn's fault soley

[WoodysGirl]

I don't pretend to know Gregg Williams' playbook and Sean's responsibility on the flea flicker to Terry Glenn. If he was indeed the deepest defender, then yes he made a mistake by biting on the fake.

But not once can I remember Sean getting outright toasted by someone on his third of the field, like Roy twice last season by Santana.

Taylor had to cover a ton of ground to get anywhere near Crayton on that 2004 play. As I remember, he was well inside the hashes. He didn't blow an assignment; he was a split second late in saving the CB's poor play.By Carlos Mendez
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

IRVING - Patrick Crayton might be a rookie, but he knows a touchdown when he sees it. So when he broke from the line of scrimmage, got around his defender and saw the safety lock in on Keyshawn Johnson, the former DeSoto star knew what was going to happen next.

"It was going to be a touchdown," he said.

Crayton shook free along the sideline and made an over-the-shoulder 39-yard touchdown catch with 30 seconds left, his first NFL score, to give the Cowboys a 13-10 victory against Washington on Sunday.

The catch carried weight. It put his name in the storied rivalry he used to watch on TV at home and lent credibility to his uncertain first season as a pro. He even received a game ball from coach Bill Parcells.

"You try to get ready every week because you want to play," said Crayton, a seventh-round pick out of Northwestern Oklahoma State. "You're waiting to get in and you're waiting to get in, and when they call you, you've got to get in there and perform as you're expected to."

Crayton hadn't played until he replaced Terrance Copper, who was winded after some long patterns on the final drive. Crayton hadn't played in the previous two games, being inactive for both. He has been inactive five times and had spent three weeks on the practice squad.

But the Cowboys went to him at a critical moment. He caught a 15-yard pass on fourth-and-10 to keep the drive alive. Five plays later, he was the target as quarterback Vinny Testaverde lofted a pass down the right sideline that he caught in stride inside the 10-yard line ahead of two defenders.

"Keyshawn and I were lined up on the same side," Crayton said. "I was a little surprised they were still trying to keep a man up on me at the line and leaving a safety to cover half of the field. I saw the safety go over to Keyshawn. He's supposed to have up-top responsibility on me. But Keyshawn's a three-time Pro Bowler, and I'm a rookie. The safety made a decision."

Johnson saw the same thing. He and rookie safety Sean Taylor, the Redskins' first-round pick, had been jawing the entire game, and Johnson predicted the defensive reaction.

"Taylor was more worried about what I was doing the whole game," Johnson said. "He tried to make the hit instead of making the play. When young guys lose their focus and worry about one player, that type of thing happens. He was more concerned with me, and I wasn't even getting the ball."

Article Zone
http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16204&highlight=crayton+taylor+johnson

[The30YardSlant]

By Carlos Mendez
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

IRVING - Patrick Crayton might be a rookie, but he knows a touchdown when he sees it. So when he broke from the line of scrimmage, got around his defender and saw the safety lock in on Keyshawn Johnson, the former DeSoto star knew what was going to happen next.

"It was going to be a touchdown," he said.

Crayton shook free along the sideline and made an over-the-shoulder 39-yard touchdown catch with 30 seconds left, his first NFL score, to give the Cowboys a 13-10 victory against Washington on Sunday.

The catch carried weight. It put his name in the storied rivalry he used to watch on TV at home and lent credibility to his uncertain first season as a pro. He even received a game ball from coach Bill Parcells.

"You try to get ready every week because you want to play," said Crayton, a seventh-round pick out of Northwestern Oklahoma State. "You're waiting to get in and you're waiting to get in, and when they call you, you've got to get in there and perform as you're expected to."

Crayton hadn't played until he replaced Terrance Copper, who was winded after some long patterns on the final drive. Crayton hadn't played in the previous two games, being inactive for both. He has been inactive five times and had spent three weeks on the practice squad.

But the Cowboys went to him at a critical moment. He caught a 15-yard pass on fourth-and-10 to keep the drive alive. Five plays later, he was the target as quarterback Vinny Testaverde lofted a pass down the right sideline that he caught in stride inside the 10-yard line ahead of two defenders.

"Keyshawn and I were lined up on the same side," Crayton said. "I was a little surprised they were still trying to keep a man up on me at the line and leaving a safety to cover half of the field. I saw the safety go over to Keyshawn. He's supposed to have up-top responsibility on me. But Keyshawn's a three-time Pro Bowler, and I'm a rookie. The safety made a decision."

Johnson saw the same thing. He and rookie safety Sean Taylor, the Redskins' first-round pick, had been jawing the entire game, and Johnson predicted the defensive reaction.

"Taylor was more worried about what I was doing the whole game," Johnson said. "He tried to make the hit instead of making the play. When young guys lose their focus and worry about one player, that type of thing happens. He was more concerned with me, and I wasn't even getting the ball."

Article Zone
http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16204&highlight=crayton+taylor+johnson

Game. Set. Match. :lmao2:

[Chief]

Pete Prisco = http://www.practical-jokes-and-pranks.com/images/gags_fun/dog_poo_250.jpg

[The30YardSlant]

Here we see Glenn clearly attempting to play the ball and thus allowing Moss to catch the ball.

http://www.haruth.com/player_s_moss.jpg

[MichaelWinicki]

Pete Prisco = http://www.practical-jokes-and-pranks.com/images/gags_fun/dog_poo_250.jpg

LOL!!!!!

[Jaxonsdaddd]

I look at that picture of Moss and Glenn and clearly think Roy WIlliams got burned :rolleyes:

[The30YardSlant]

Here is a wide angle. Yes, RW clearly blew it :rolleyes:

http://onlineathens.com/images/092105/22203_512.jpg

[The30YardSlant]

A few frames later. Damn, Roy sure got toasted, he's not even in the screen :rolleyes:

http://img1.eurosport.com/imgbk/footbl/all/big_md-i202640.jpg

[The30YardSlant]

WOW, look how close RW was to the play? he sure blew it

http://www.sport1.at/coremedia/pics/31/35/11/8x220x175x1,property=original.jpg

[MossBurner]

WOW, look how close RW was to the play? he sure blew it

http://www.sport1.at/coremedia/pics/31/35/11/8x220x175x1,property=original.jpg

Ummm...doesn't that mean he got burnt. Check the replay. Santana ran right by Glenn and then right beside Roy.

[ConstantReboot]

My point was that elite safeties in the league, like Taylor, Dawkins, Reed, Polamalu are all capable of playing either S position.

Roy is not, just like Archuleta is not. Thus, neither are elite.


And all those players, if they all played Strong Safety, could not play it better than Roy Williams.

No one strikes more fear at Strong Safety than Roy. He's a devastating passrusher as well as a hardhitter in the backfield.

[Vintage]

Ummm...doesn't that mean he got burnt. Check the replay. Santana ran right by Glenn and then right beside Roy.

Watch the replay.

That's Roy coming OVER to help.

Not Santana running by Roy.

[The30YardSlant]

Ummm...doesn't that mean he got burnt. Check the replay. Santana ran right by Glenn and then right beside Roy.

Ummm.....that means he was not assigned to help out the area in which Moss was in you half wit :rolleyes:

Santana didnt run by Roy, Roy ran at him because his assingment was shorter than Moss's route. he went over to help when he realized there wa sone on one coverage with Moss. Moss also only gets by Glenn when Glenn reaches for the ball, never before.

Skins fans contention has always been Roy got beat. Not that that is disproved, they change it to "He blew his assingment and should have been there". Brilliant :rolleyes:

[MossBurner]

Watch the replay.

That's Roy coming OVER to help.

Not Santana running by Roy.

I agree with you. SM ran by AG and then by RW. How many times can these two plays be debated? Time to move on to 2006.

[Hostile]

Ummm...doesn't that mean he got burnt. Check the replay. Santana ran right by Glenn and then right beside Roy.Dude, HeavyHitta absolutely owned you on this debate. He produced frame after frame of visual evidence. Around here we jokingly call him the pinata because he takes so many beatings. When you get schooled by the pinata, you've been schooled bad.

Don't miss your bus.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/i-46967.jpg

You don't want to be late for your next class.

[Vintage]

What eludes me is this....

Santana got by Roy once.
Patrick Crayton got by Sean Taylor once.

Now, if you are an elite WR, shouldn't you be able to get by a SS rather easily? I mean, esp. one noted for his speed (as Moss is)?

Yet, Skins fans continually dog Roy for getting burnt.

All the while overlooking Crayton beating Taylor.

They have to knock Williams in order to prop Taylor up. Why is that?

[Hostile]

What eludes me is this....

Santana got by Roy once.
Patrick Crayton got by Sean Taylor once.

Now, if you are an elite WR, shouldn't you be able to get by a SS rather easily? I mean, esp. one noted for his speed (as Moss is)?

Yet, Skins fans continually dog Roy for getting burnt.

All the while overlooking Crayton beating Taylor.

They have to knock Williams in order to prop Taylor up. Why is that?Penis envy.

[WoodysGirl]

Dude, HeavyHitta absolutely owned you on this debate. He produced frame after frame of visual evidence. Around here we jokingly call him the pinata because he takes so many beatings. When you get schooled by the pinata, you've been schooled bad.

Don't miss your bus.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/i-46967.jpg

You don't want to be late for your next class.

I can't think of anything clever to say....that's just too funny.

:lmao2:

[Vintage]

I agree with you. SM ran by AG and then by RW. How many times can these two plays be debated? Time to move on to 2006.

You agree with me. Then change my words to fit your agenda. Brilliant.

I said Roy was coming OVER to help...not that Santana ran by....Roy is heading OVER.

If you need to use the dictionary to look up the word "over," please do so. Now would be the time.

What pisses me off is that people like you are allowed to breathe the same air the rest of us are. Its a shame. Its taking away good oxygen.

[Vintage]

Penis envy.

Ah, thank you.

I'd be lost without you deciphering this stuff for me.

[The30YardSlant]

Here is why Roy Williams always has been and always will be better than Sean Taylor:

http://www.dallasnews.com/img/photo/09-04/2001williams_ap.jpg

http://www.cowboysplus.com/images/12-03/1212roy2.jpg

http://www.quinterhs.org/2004WebClass/Brice/roy%204.jpg

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/football/nfl/specials/preview/2005/images/teams/williams_dallas.jpg

http://www.projo.com/sharedcontent/east/nfl/5/slideshow/600/images/5.jpg

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/misc/wallpaper/img/cowboys/williams1_800.jpg

[JPM]

You agree with me. Then change my words to fit your agenda. Brilliant.

I said Roy was coming OVER to help...not that Santana ran by....Roy is heading OVER.

If you need to use the dictionary to look up the word "over," please do so. Now would be the time.

What pisses me off is that people like you are allowed to breathe the same air the rest of us are. Its a shame. Its taking away good oxygen.

Here I did it for him:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/over

[Vintage]

Here I did it for him:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/over

Thank you, kind sir.

[Sam I Am]

Roy Williams is a very good strong safety and him being on the field changes the other temas offense. He *IS* a game changer, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have holes in his game. (Shaq can't shoot a free throw) Just because he is a strong safety doesn't make up for his coverage deficiencies just as Shaq being a center isn't an excuse for poor free throw shooting.

You want an elite safety? Ronnie Lott. He was elite at all the positions he played. Pro-Bowler at CB, SS, and FS. Yes, running backs feared Lott because he hit like Roy Williams (if not harder!!!) He could also cover intercepting 63 passes in 13 years. An Elite safety has a complete game. Roy does not have that, but he is a game changer and that is huge.

btw, Who is Ronnie Lott's favorite player to watch in the NFL right now? Roy Williams!

[MossBurner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKcl-sfEiEM&search=santana%20moss

You'll notice on the 2nd touchdown that Santana runs right beside and past Roy.

What is the argument here?

[The30YardSlant]

I agree with you. SM ran by AG and then by RW. How many times can these two plays be debated? Time to move on to 2006.

YOU and other Redskins fans are the ones who keep holding onto that game as proof of your "ownage" of Dallas. We dismiss it for what it really was: A fluke that is bound to happen once every decade or so

[REDVOLUTION]

Before I say anything, I think Roy is a very good SS - one of the best at his position. I don't think Roy would be a good FS, though.

Without a doubt - if Roy didn't have a star on his helmet, he would not be as hyped as he is.
:skins:

My guess is - that's why he doesn't play FS.

Call me crazy.... :hammer:
You so crazy... but on the mofo'n mark
:clubbed:

[gbrittain]

I guess the end result is the same though.

Or one could argue that instead of doing his assignment his mental makeup allowed himself to be beat.

Wasn't that similar to the excuse that people used for him when he got beat by Crayton?

It would pretty much fit seeing that he seems to do many stupid things since joining the league.

I can see it now six years down the road, Sean Taylor is released and he goes from being the best safety in the NFL to "undisciplined" a freelancer if you will. Cough...cough...Lavar Arrington...cough...cough.

[Hostile]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKcl-sfEiEM&search=santana%20moss

You'll notice on the 2nd touchdown that Santana runs right beside and past Roy.

What is the argument here?The classic bait and switch.

Make a statement about one thing, get owned, switch the topic to a completely different topic as quickly as possible.

[The30YardSlant]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKcl-sfEiEM&search=santana%20moss

You'll notice on the 2nd touchdown that Santana runs right beside and past Roy.

What is the argument here?

BECAUSE HE WAS NOT ROY ASSINGMENT!!!!!!!

Roy was assinged to zone coverage in an area shorter than where Moss' route ended up. When no WR was in his area and he saw the ball going to a one on one covered Moss, he tried to help, but because that was not his area, he was too far away to make a play.

[MossBurner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKcl-sfEiEM&search=santana%20moss

You'll notice on the 2nd touchdown that Santana runs right beside and past Roy.

What is the argument here?

In fact, Roy is closer to Santana than Glenn for 95% of that play.

[Hostile]

In fact, Roy is closer to Santana than Glenn for 95% of that play.Have you ever heard of a "Zone?"

It could help you out a lot.

[Vintage]

Question for the mods: Is it inappropriate for me to suggest to MossBurner to take a bath with a plugged in toaster?

I mean, technically, I am not calling him a name or anything...or attacking him...

[Vintage]

In fact, Roy is closer to Santana than Glenn for 95% of that play.

So what have we learned here, today.

Make an arguement. Lose it.

Change the arguement. Lose again.

Go for the third arguement. After all, third times the charm. Its bound to be a winner. Right?

[REDVOLUTION]

BECAUSE HE WAS NOT ROY ASSINGMENT!!!!!!!

Roy was assinged to zone coverage in an area shorter than where Moss' route ended up. When no WR was in his area and he saw the ball going to a one on one covered Moss, he tried to help, but because that was not his area, he was too far away to make a play.

I applaud your effort but it is useless to educate a skin-troll... you are using logic and fact.... 2 things that are not part of the skin-trolling world
:eek:

[The30YardSlant]

In fact, Roy is closer to Santana than Glenn for 95% of that play.

, how stupid are you???

Forget for a minute it was Glenn who infact allowed Moss to score, not Roy. Simply because Roy was close to Moss has no bearing on him being his assingment. Glenn is the CB, and is clearly the one charged with covering Moss. Roy is in a zone, he sticks close to Moss until moss leaves his area. Upon seeing the ball thrown to Moss, he retreats to help out Glenn, but cannot get there in time.

[The30YardSlant]

Dude, HeavyHitta absolutely owned you on this debate. He produced frame after frame of visual evidence. Around here we jokingly call him the pinata because he takes so many beatings. When you get schooled by the pinata, you've been schooled bad.

Don't miss your bus.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/i-46967.jpg

You don't want to be late for your next class.

:laugh1:

[TheSkaven]

To call Roy Williams overrated is insanity. Aside from his bone crushing hits, the guy makes plays. Playmakers can never be overrated. Here is my list:

Dallas Cowboys
Over rated: Greg Ellis.
Under rated: Flozell Adams.

Philadelphia Eagles
Over rated: Donovan McNabb (but Kearse was a fine choice)
Under rated: Trent Cole.

New York Giants
Over rated: LaVar Arrington, Eli Manning (take your pick)
Under rated: Tiki Barber

Washington Redskins
Over rated: Joe Gibbs
Under rated: Marcus Washington

[littlewebs]

I agree with you. SM ran by AG and then by RW. How many times can these two plays be debated? Time to move on to 2006.

I'd actually be shocked if a Redskin fan's argument for why Roy sucks in coverage involved anything OTHER THAN those 2 plays. No one has ANY OTHER EXAMPLES.

WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE NAME A TIME LAST YEAR WHERE ROY WILLIAMS GOT BURNED NOT INVOLVING WEEK 2 AND SANTANA MOSS?????

I wonder if I'll hear crickets.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

I agree with you. SM ran by AG and then by RW. How many times can these two plays be debated? Time to move on to 2006.


Really? Now you want to move on? Then why is that all Skins fans can talk about still?

[littlewebs]

Question for the mods: Is it inappropriate for me to suggest to MossBurner to take a bath with a plugged in toaster?

I mean, technically, I am not calling him a name or anything...or attacking him...

:lmao2::lmao:

[The30YardSlant]

Roy clearly eyes Moss until he leaves his zone assingment, then realizing that Glenn was one on one, he retreats after Moss has gone by him.

[Alexander]

There were four other safeties on Prisco's overrated list: Sammy Knight, Donovin Darius, Mike Doss and Adam Archuleta.

All were singled out for their coverage deficiencies.

I agree that Williams isn't the "best safety" in football because of his coverage weaknesses, but for Prisco to arbitrarily pick off strong safeties and state they are all coverage liabilities is dubious. There is a reason they are strong safeties and that is because they lack range. That's like downgrading a fullback because they don't have tailback speed and movement skills.

[REDVOLUTION]

, how stupid are you???

Forget for a minute it was Glenn who infact allowed Moss to score, not Roy. Simply because Roy was close to Moss has no bearing on him being his assingment. Glenn is the CB, and is clearly the one charged with covering Moss. Roy is in a zone, he sticks close to Moss until moss leaves his area. Upon seeing the ball thrown to Moss, he retreats to help out Glenn, but cannot get there in time.

Yeah really.... Roy should be applauded for what actually happened... he made up ground and almost made a play he was in no position to make.... how about a truthful non-spin once in a while right LOL

[AdamJT13]

I know, let's ask Bill Parcells if either of Moss' touchdown catches were Roy Williams' fault. He should know.

Wait, someone already did.

http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/cowboys/demand/parcells_092105.rm


Starting at 16:46 of the press conference --

Reporter: "Roy Williams, on those last two plays, was he supposed to be there and have deep help there?"

Parcells: "Well, no, it wasn't really his play. OK? It wasn't really his play. So ... I was asked that question after the game, and I told you whose play it was."

[The30YardSlant]

I'd actually be shocked if a Redskin fan's argument for why Roy sucks in coverage involved anything OTHER THAN those 2 plays. No one has ANY OTHER EXAMPLES.

WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE NAME A TIME LAST YEAR WHERE ROY WILLIAMS GOT BURNED NOT INVOLVING WEEK 2 AND SANTANA MOSS?????

I wonder if I'll hear crickets.


And people always forget his great plays in coverage, like him luring McNabb into that pass on MNF last year or the year before in Philly when TO was wide open in the endzone and Roy recovered to make an amazing deflection, or that same season when he was one on one with Donte Stallworth and made a pick.

[The30YardSlant]

I know, let's ask Bill Parcells if either of Moss' touchdown catches were Roy Williams' fault. He should know.

Wait, someone already did.

http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/cowboys/demand/parcells_092105.rm


Starting at 16:46 of the press conference --

Reporter: "Roy Williams, on those last two plays, was he supposed to be there and have deep help there?"

Parcells: "Well, no, it wasn't really his play. OK? It wasn't really his play. So ... I was asked that question after the game, and I told you whose play it was."

The epic beatdown continues

[Jaxonsdaddd]

Lets all understand the rules now. From now on whenever a safety leaves a zone and follows the ball to the intended target, he has now been burned if its completed.

You know whats funny about these plays..If the corner were Newman and the safety was Davis they would be saying the complete opposite. It would be Newmans fault because hes the corner and Sean Springs is better.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

New York Giants
Over rated: LaVar Arrington, Eli Manning (take your pick)
Under rated: Tiki Barber

Tiki is a great back and was an MVP candidate last year, he gets his credit, I dont think hes underrated

[Alexander]

Lets all understand the rules now. From now on whenever a safety leaves a zone and follows the ball to the intended target, he has now been burned if its completed.

Not when it is Sean Taylor.

[Vintage]

Someone needs to call the police.

There's been a beating in this thread.

[Alexander]

You know whats funny about these plays..If the corner were Newman and the safety was Davis they would be saying the complete opposite. It would be Newmans fault because hes the corner and Sean Springs is better.

You brought up an interesting point. I actually disagree. Davis would be getting it with both barrels if he did what Williams did on that play, just because he isn't nearly as respected.

[REDVOLUTION]

Question for the mods: Is it inappropriate for me to suggest to MossBurner to take a bath with a plugged in toaster?

I mean, technically, I am not calling him a name or anything...or attacking him...

Well I am no lawyer.... but..... in your wording you not telling him to take a bath and place the toaster in the water.... so.... :explode:I think you are good!
:lmao:

[REDVOLUTION]

Someone needs to call the police.

There's been a beating in this thread.


If you subsribe to the "admit to nothing" rule.

The officer comes to me and I say "I ain't seen nuttin, you aint gettin nuttin outta me"
:lmao:

[superpunk]

Dude, HeavyHitta absolutely owned you on this debate. He produced frame after frame of visual evidence. Around here we jokingly call him the pinata because he takes so many beatings. When you get schooled by the pinata, you've been schooled bad.

True words.

What is this, the 148th "was Roy to blame" thread this season, since week 2?

I realize that estimate is conservative.

[superpunk]

You so crazy... but on the mofo'n mark

I've been known to wear straight jackets.

And double-breasted jackets.

And triple button down jackets.

And even Member's Only jackets.

Don't sleep.

[Chocolate Lab]

One more thing... I, for one, don't care if it was Roy's fault. Even if Moss did run by Roy, so what? Roy can't keep up with a speedy 5-9 WR, but neither can Reed or Dawkins or Polamalu or Harrison or any other of the other better safeties in the league. Does that make them all worthless? Of course not.

Point being, every single player who has ever lived has missed tackles and gotten beaten for big plays. It's nonsensical to pick out one or two of those plays and judge a player by them... Unless you're a Skins troll.

[The30YardSlant]

Here is, however, Sean Taylor clearly getting beat by both Glenn and Crayton:

http://media.hamptonroads.com/images/sports/redbig.jpg

http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/v3/12-27-2004.ns_27CowboysTDCrayton.GEK1GSE5L.1.jpg

And here is a blown assingment by Taylor in the biggest game of his life, allowing Hasslebeck to score:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcUowHhRKeg&search=Sean%20taylor

Here is another clip from the same game in which Taylor plays for the big hit instead of preventing the catch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4zBxcCvUlQ&search=Sean%20taylor

And of course, the infamous video of Greg Jones trucking Sean Taylor in college:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NiwGp1TM5k&search=Sean%20taylor

[lspain1]

True words.

What is this, the 148th "was Roy to blame" thread this season, since week 2?

I realize that estimate is conservative.


Yes, but this is an offiicial CBS Sportsline..."It was all Roy's Fault" thread....and that means it's of 'special significance.' :rolleyes:

[Chief]

There were four other safeties on Prisco's overrated list: Sammy Knight, Donovin Darius, Mike Doss and Adam Archuleta.

All were singled out for their coverage deficiencies.

I agree that Williams isn't the "best safety" in football because of his coverage weaknesses, but for Prisco to arbitrarily pick off strong safeties and state they are all coverage liabilities is dubious. There is a reason they are strong safeties and that is because they lack range. That's like downgrading a fullback because they don't have tailback speed and movement skills.

Excellent point.

This post and the transcript that Adam posted of Parcells after the game should be emailed to Prisco. Oh, and we can send him the photo of the dog crap that I posted, too.

[1fisher]

Question for the mods: Is it inappropriate for me to suggest to MossBurner to take a bath with a plugged in toaster?

I mean, technically, I am not calling him a name or anything...or attacking him...


This is not ExtremeSkins and you will NOT get banned!:cool:

[superpunk]

Yes, but this is an offiicial CBS Sportsline..."It was all Roy's Fault" thread....and that means it's of 'special significance.' :rolleyes:

It's officially retarded.

Look, people - HH31 is killing Skins trolls in this thread.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: HeavyHitta31!!!!!!

How long does this have to continue before we take care of this cockroach problem? I've got a can of Raid, if anyone needs it.

[superpunk]

Excellent point.

This post and the transcript that Adam posted of Parcells after the game should be emailed to Prisco. Oh, and we can send him the photo of the dog crap that I posted, too.

Someone told me a story about taking a dump in a box and mailing it to someone a few states away once.

That's all I can remember, but it cracks me up.

[WoodysGirl]

Excellent point.

This post and the transcript that Adam posted of Parcells after the game should be emailed to Prisco. Oh, and we can send him the photo of the dog crap that I posted, too.Great request... I'll do that this evening when I get home. I'm sure he'll especially appreciate the dung gif. :)

But you know the spin will be that Parcells was just taking up for his star player.

[superpunk]

But you know the spin will be that Parcells was just taking up for his star player.

Which is probably why he pinned it on Glenn.

Of course, had Parcells blamed Glenn, Roy might have got off the hook on some misplaced "Parcells guys" rant, and everyone would have forgotten.

^^^^I'm not sure that makes sense. In any case, if Parcells was looking for a scapegoat, you'd think he'd go after Roy, rather than Glenn, a noted Parcells guy brought in via free agency. Because, apparently, these Parcells guys' act with impunity, start without earning it, and engineer the release of fan favorites. At least - That's what they tell me.:cool:

[Alexander]

In any case, if Parcells was looking for a scapegoat, you'd think he'd go after Roy, rather than Glenn, a noted Parcells guy brought in via free agency.

Actually, Coach Parcells is harder on "his guys" because he knows they can take what he dishes out.

At any rate, you have no choice but to believe it was Glenn's man. No matter what, there is no excuse for giving up what we did on the play. Whether Glenn mistimed his jump (which he did on several other occasions throughout the year) or Williams took a bad angle, went too shallow etc., it was a terrible series of decisions by two players who should know better.

[superpunk]

Actually, Coach Parcells is harder on "his guys" because he knows they can take what he dishes out.

At any rate, you have no choice but to believe it was Glenn's man. No matter what, there is no excuse for giving up what we did on the play. Whether Glenn mistimed his jump (which he did on several other occasions throughout the year) or Williams took a bad angle, went too shallow etc., it was a terrible series of decisions by two players who should know better.

In any case, I see no profit in him lying about it. If he lays down what happened, no reason to doubt.

I hate Glenn for that play, but then I love him for coming up huge against Plax - who has him by at least half a foot in height - in our first meeting.

[Alexander]

In any case, I see no profit in him lying about it. If he lays down what happened, no reason to doubt.

I hate Glenn for that play, but then I love him for coming up huge against Plax - who has him by at least half a foot in height - in our first meeting.

Glenn is supposedly working on timing his jumps better from other articles I have read. I certainly hope so. He made some big plays (against New York as you said plus the interception in San Diego), but he also made some bad decisions like he did against Drew Carter in the Carolina contest.

[Sam I Am]

This thread seems to be slowing down.

Here let me fix that.

Roy was playing zone and Moss was in his zone. The Cowboys endzone!

Therefore, it's Roy's fault.

[superpunk]

Glenn is supposedly working on timing his jumps better from other articles I have read. I certainly hope so. He made some big plays (against New York as you said plus the interception in San Diego), but he also made some bad decisions like he did against Drew Carter in the Carolina contest.

I don't know how much better he can get, at his age. I just hope our top 2 stay healthy this year, no nagging injuries, so we can maintain the depth chart, and scheme, and not have to unnecessarily call on our old, midget corner. IIRC, it wasn't the jump that was the problem on Moss's catch - it was that he just completely missed the ball he was trying to INT.

[DLCassidy]

It's possible RW is overrated, he is after all Scouts Inc's highest rated NFL safety at 90 (a whopping 7 points higher than the 2nd rated safety). And it's possible Sean Taylor is underrated, he is after all in a tie for 10th with aging safety Lawyer Milloy with a rating of 76. But either way, RW > ST.

[Chocolate Lab]

IIRC, it wasn't the jump that was the problem on Moss's catch - it was that he just completely missed the ball he was trying to INT.IMO the worst decision was going all-or-nothing for the ball. He should have tried the textbook corner technique where you play the ball with your lead arm and simultaneously grab the WR with your off arm. In that situation you can still knock the ball away, but even if you whiff, you can tackle the WR.

He'd even have been better off just letting Moss catch the thing and then tackling him, because the Skins still had 40 or so yards to go, and needed a TD to beat us with less than two minutes left. What Glenn did was the worst thing he could have done in that situation.

[Alexander]

IMO the worst decision was going all-or-nothing for the ball. He should have tried the textbook corner technique where you play the ball with your lead arm and simultaneously grab the WR with your off arm. In that situation you can still knock the ball away, but even if you whiff, you can tackle the WR.

He'd even have been better off just letting Moss catch the thing and then tackling him, because the Skins still had 40 or so yards to go, and needed a TD to beat us with less than two minutes left. What Glenn did was the worst thing he could have done in that situation.

I would have taken a simple flagrant pass interference.

[dboyz]

Actually, Coach Parcells is harder on "his guys" because he knows they can take what he dishes out.

At any rate, you have no choice but to believe it was Glenn's man. No matter what, there is no excuse for giving up what we did on the play. Whether Glenn mistimed his jump (which he did on several other occasions throughout the year) or Williams took a bad angle, went too shallow etc., it was a terrible series of decisions by two players who should know better.

I partially agree, but I really have to pin the majority of the blame on the coaching staff for putting us in the position of being beat for a 70 yard touchdown. Playing quarters defense there was a mistake. It's one thing to allow them to plod the ball down the field, it's another to give them a chance to get 70 yards in one shot.

[Chocolate Lab]

I would have taken a simple flagrant pass interference.
That would've worked, too. :)

[the_h0wey]

It honestly baffles me how people can say that Roy Williams is so poor in coverage... He is a strong safety he doesn't have to a ballhawk. That is what your free safety is suppose to be. He isn't the greatest SS in the league at coverage, but he is at least average. With the way he hits and the presence he brings to the field he does not have to be amazing in coverage. The reason our secondary struggled at times last year was because Roy was forced to help out Davis so much, not because he wasn't doing his own job...

[Alexander]

I partially agree, but I really have to pin the majority of the blame on the coaching staff for putting us in the position of being beat for a 70 yard touchdown. Playing quarters defense there was a mistake. It's one thing to allow them to plod the ball down the field, it's another to give them a chance to get 70 yards in one shot.

I completely agree. That rates right up there with the greatest team collapses in club history. Everyone on the field and sidelines failed during that timespan.

[ringmaster]

You know whats overrated? The overrating of Roy Williams, everyone and their mother does it now. Apparently now he's no more than an in the box scrub. He's not a top-tier safety? That's laughable. They will always remember that Redskins debacle from last season where Moss, scored two long TDs involving him, and Glenn.

Champ Bailey, was burned numerous times last season and they still say he's the league's best DB.

Every DB, or Safety lets up TD passes but to say Williams, is overrated when anyone on any given Sunday, or Monday can give up a TD.:bang2:

[TruBlueCowboy]

Someone get Adam on the phone so he bust out with the Roy Williams stat almanac from last year. :cool:

[ringmaster]

Before I say anything, I think Roy is a very good SS - one of the best at his position. I don't think Roy would be a good FS, though.

Without a doubt - if Roy didn't have a star on his helmet, he would not be as hyped as he is. Sean Taylor, will get his due like when he was a Hurricane, I enjoyed watching him play especially as a senior.

It's the mediots who overrate any player.:star:

[ringmaster]

I find it ridiculous that 3 plays have turned Roy Williams into the league's most overrated player. Yeah let's forget the other 500 plays where he was great and just focus on 2 deep balls to Santana Moss and 1 missed tackle on Tony Gonzalez. I mean, if he can't stop those guys he is clearly terrible.

For crying out loud, Sean Taylor got burned by Terry Glenn (in Skins fans' minds a far inferior receiver to Moss) in the SAME GAME as Moss beat Roy. But he's revolutionizing the safety position and Roy sucks in coverage. Whatever, happy 300 for me I guess. Actually both Glenn, and Moss are the same type of reciever both are burners.:)

[apickmans]

Here is, however, Sean Taylor clearly getting beat by both Glenn and Crayton:

http://media.hamptonroads.com/images/sports/redbig.jpg

http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/v3/12-27-2004.ns_27CowboysTDCrayton.GEK1GSE5L.1.jpg

And here is a blown assingment by Taylor in the biggest game of his life, allowing Hasslebeck to score:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcUowHhRKeg&search=Sean%20taylor

Here is another clip from the same game in which Taylor plays for the big hit instead of preventing the catch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4zBxcCvUlQ&search=Sean%20taylor

And of course, the infamous video of Greg Jones trucking Sean Taylor in college:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NiwGp1TM5k&search=Sean%20taylor

HH cmon man, I mean this post is bad even for you though. I can just as easily find pics of moss' plays with glenn and roy in them. As for the crayton pic, what can I say Taylor should of stuck with him and not keyshawn.

When I saw the first seattle clip i had to laugh. I mean do you honestly think taylor blew in assignment on that play. I thought to myself "HH isnt that dumb". This blown defensive play is less of Taylor's fault than it is #92 Evans' and #24 Springs' fault. First of all, the end, Evans, completely loses contain, not to mention gets his *** kicked. Secondly, looks to me as if the corner, Springs, has contain on QB boot. Obviously, he's too consumed with covering his receiver to realize whats really going on and gets beat outside. Yeah, Sean Taylor could've made the play (if you wanted him to stop covering the TE, but then Hasslebeck would of just thrown it to him just as soon as he would), but he wasn't the one who blew that play.

As for the 2nd seattle clip. What point are you trying to make by showing that? Ive seen Roy lay the wood to some receivers and they still hold on to the ball. I guess youre just trying to make sean taylor seem like a puss since he got hurt laying that hit. Oh well, stingers do happen in football ya know.

And then you resort to showing a college football clip. I'm pretty sure Greg Jones running in a straight line pretty much going full speed will run over any safety, including your precious Roy williams.

[Vintage]

Just bring up the fact that Chris Brown stiff armed Roy Williams into the ground, apickmans.

Don't use that [insert synonym for cat] [butt] "well, if Williams got hit by Jones...." crap. Go for the Gold! Chris Brown!

[ringmaster]

Sean Taylor goes to bed at night praying to become as good as Roy Williams is.

And what is this about Roy's tackling ability? The guy misses a tackle every once in a while, but in general he is one of the most sure tacklers on the team. Any aggressive tackler, like Williams, is prone to miss a takle everynow and then.

Something else people also remember in the preseason game against Tennessee, when Chris Brown, stiffed him to the ground but that doesn't still overrate him but everybody is prone to a stiff arm also.:)

[ringmaster]

Oh, and lets not forget that dredful day in December, 2004 when a rookie 7th round pick (correct me if I'm wrong) torched taylor for the game winning TD! Beaten by the arm of Vinny Testeverde! I was at that game and in the endzone where it all took place! Sean who???:lmao2: It was something though Crayton, beating him for a perfect 35-yd strike from Testaverde.

[apickmans]

Just bring up the fact that Chris Brown stiff armed Roy Williams into the ground, apickmans.

Don't use that [insert synonym for cat] [butt] "well, if Williams got hit by Jones...." crap. Go for the Gold! Chris Brown!

Haha or i could just use that.

[apickmans]

Just bring up the fact that Chris Brown stiff armed Roy Williams into the ground, apickmans.

Don't use that [insert synonym for cat] [butt] "well, if Williams got hit by Jones...." crap. Go for the Gold! Chris Brown!

You ask and I provide Vintage....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OBeB2S751U&search=roy%20williams

[The30YardSlant]

HH cmon man, I mean this post is bad even for you though. I can just as easily find pics of moss' plays with glenn and roy in them. As for the crayton pic, what can I say Taylor should of stuck with him and not keyshawn.

When I saw the first seattle clip i had to laugh. I mean do you honestly think taylor blew in assignment on that play. I thought to myself "HH isnt that dumb". This blown defensive play is less of Taylor's fault than it is #92 Evans' and #24 Springs' fault. First of all, the end, Evans, completely loses contain, not to mention gets his *** kicked. Secondly, looks to me as if the corner, Springs, has contain on QB boot. Obviously, he's too consumed with covering his receiver to realize whats really going on and gets beat outside. Yeah, Sean Taylor could've made the play (if you wanted him to stop covering the TE, but then Hasslebeck would of just thrown it to him just as soon as he would), but he wasn't the one who blew that play.

As for the 2nd seattle clip. What point are you trying to make by showing that? Ive seen Roy lay the wood to some receivers and they still hold on to the ball. I guess youre just trying to make sean taylor seem like a puss since he got hurt laying that hit. Oh well, stingers do happen in football ya know.

And then you resort to showing a college football clip. I'm pretty sure Greg Jones running in a straight line pretty much going full speed will run over any safety, including your precious Roy williams.

In the first clip. Taylor has an inside path to Haslebeck and for some unknown reason just stops and retreats.

In the second clip, he just stands there, lets Jackson catch the ball, then delivers the hit. He wanted to make Sportscenter instead of making the proper play. The fact that he hurt himself in the process just adds insult to injuy (which is the definition of Sean taylor's career in the NFL).

The third clip is just for laughs. I dont think I've ever seen a guy as big as ST get blown up that badly. Jones hardly even flitches.

[1fisher]

It was something though Crayton, beating him for a perfect 35-yd strike from Testaverde.


My brother wanted to leave with 2 mins. to go! I talked him into hanging around and we were both glad we did...... the TD was great and a 7th rounder burning Taylor was icing on the cake!:starspin

[BigDFan5]

Dude, HeavyHitta absolutely owned you on this debate. He produced frame after frame of visual evidence. Around here we jokingly call him the pinata because he takes so many beatings. When you get schooled by the pinata, you've been schooled bad.

Don't miss your bus.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/i-46967.jpg

You don't want to be late for your next class.


:lmao2:

[ringmaster]

I think the 5 extra speed points in Madden is one of the main reasons for this perception. No one will admit it, though. I personally think it has slowly brainwashed everybody, because speed is everything in defensive coverage on Madden.

And by the way, I've never seen anyone answer the "how many plays can you name RW being beat?" question ever. It is always ignored. You can count on it. I play Madden, all the time and have a knack for the passing game and I'm playing the season right now and played the Skins, earlier today with there new toys, on offense, and defense.

There was this one play where I swap sides with Glenn, and Owens, who was lined up on Taylor's side of the field and guess what happened they played "Cover 1", where for some strange reason Springs played zone coverage on the flare route ran by JJ, there was Taylor, all by his lonesome on T.O. and boom a 71-yd strike for a TD.

Taylor, does have blazing speed on the game but it didn't help on that play when T.O. ate his lunch.:)

[apickmans]

In the first clip. Taylor has an inside path to Haslebeck and for some unknown reason just stops and retreats.

In the second clip, he just stands there, lets Jackson catch the ball, then delivers the hit. He wanted to make Sportscenter instead of making the proper play. The fact that he hurt himself in the process just adds insult to injuy (which is the definition of Sean taylor's career in the NFL).

The third clip is just for laughs. I dont think I've ever seen a guy as big as ST get blown up that badly. Jones hardly even flitches.

1st clip: Like i said HH, Taylor was covering a TE on that play. If taylor leaves his man to go after hasslebeck, all hasslebeck has to do is lob it over for an easy TD. I bet if that happened cowboyzone's server would of exploded by all the posters making fun of taylor and saying how much he sucks.

2nd clip: If you hear the annoucers or even just watch the play happen you can see hasslebeck eyeing off taylor and then delivers a nice pass to jackson by the sideline. Taylor im sure realized that he would not get there in time to deflect the ball or swat it away so he goes for the big hit trying to lodge the ball out. It doesnt work as you can see and receives a stringer for his effort. He wasnt just trying to make the sportcenter clip.

3rd clip: What can i say man, Jones is a biiiig dude. As for taylor, he was a bit smaller in college, but im still not gonna defend the fact he got rolled out.

[ringmaster]

And considering Glenn ran a fly route and did not attempt to sell the run (like he did against KC), Taylor had no business getting burned Right on target

[BigDFan5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKcl-sfEiEM&search=santana%20moss

You'll notice on the 2nd touchdown that Santana runs right beside and past Roy.

What is the argument here?


Holy **** did you seriously just post a link that proved Hevyhittas point for him and then try to claim victory?

Now watch the video You see Newman lined up on the reciever in the slot, Moss on the outside against Glenn, you clearly see Newman RELEASE the slot reciever to WILLIAMS the slot reciever was then WILLIAMS responsibility. Then when the ball was thrown Williams broke off and went after Moss. Slow Mo starts at the 20 second mark, watch it and try and learn something

[DLCassidy]

Dude, HeavyHitta absolutely owned you on this debate. He produced frame after frame of visual evidence. Around here we jokingly call him the pinata because he takes so many beatings. When you get schooled by the pinata, you've been schooled bad.

Don't miss your bus.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/i-46967.jpg

You don't want to be late for your next class.

:laugh1: That is classic.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

1st clip: Like i said HH, Taylor was covering a TE on that play. If taylor leaves his man to go after hasslebeck, all hasslebeck has to do is lob it over for an easy TD. I bet if that happened cowboyzone would of exploding by all the posters making fun of taylor and saying how much he sucks.

2nd clip: If you hear the annoucers or even just watch the play happen you can see hasslebeck eyeing off taylor and then delivers a nice pass to jackson by the sideline. Taylor im sure realized that he would not get there in time to deflect the ball or swat it away so he goes for the big hit trying to lodge the ball out. It doesnt work as you can see and receives a stringer for his effort. He wasnt just trying to make the sportcenter clip.


The guy has potential, but hes not perfect, he gets beat like all DB's do. Just happens that it wasnt on monday night in a legendary collapse.

Read any article about Roy and thats all people remember, not the fumbles he forces or the other games he helped win

[lspain1]

Read any article about Roy and thats all people remember, not the fumbles he forces or the other games he helped win

I remember a certain game last year when a late Williams interception won the game. It's too bad about Roy's coverage skills.:rolleyes:

[Bob Sacamano]

ROy has been on Prisco's overrated list for the past 3 years, this comes as no suprise

[Bob Sacamano]

by far

this must be your guy's favorite phrase, that and, "clearly"

but that's not saying much, I can't name a FS other than Taylor who's any good, he'd have alot of comp. if he were a SS, having to go up against the likes up Gibril WIlson, Dawkins, Roy

[EMMITTnROY]

[quote=TheHustler]You know whats overrated? The overrating of Roy Williams, everyone and their mother does it now. [quote]
I agree COMPLETELY.. Roy is the best in the league, period.

come on, this same guy says that Sean Taylor is ELITE.. haha..

[Bob Sacamano]

My point was that elite safeties in the league, like Taylor, Dawkins, Reed, Polamalu are all capable of playing either S position.

Roy is not, just like Archuleta is not. Thus, neither are elite.

please, Adam has a real interesting stat about what Roy did last year, and have you ever seen Polamalu try to play FS, or any other SS? dont' make crap up

[Bob Sacamano]

Damn, it gets tiring correcting your posts

First of all, RW was not deep enough on the first TD to Moss, and yes that was his fault.

BP absolved Roy of any blame for those 2 plays, none were his fault

[stilltheguru]

I'd actually be shocked if a Redskin fan's argument for why Roy sucks in coverage involved anything OTHER THAN those 2 plays. No one has ANY OTHER EXAMPLES.

WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE NAME A TIME LAST YEAR WHERE ROY WILLIAMS GOT BURNED NOT INVOLVING WEEK 2 AND SANTANA MOSS?????

I wonder if I'll hear crickets.




nobody ever answers this question.hahahaha.

[The30YardSlant]

BP absolved Roy of any blame for those 2 plays, none were his fault

Looking at that first TD, even if Moss wasnt Roy's assingment, he could have made a play, he just misjudged the ball, unlike the second TD when he was never in position

[MC KAos]

the whole redskins team is overrated..

[stilltheguru]

roy=top 5 most hated player in the nfl.thats pretty obvious listening and looking at alot of things during the past 3 seasons.tsk tsk tsk

[big dog cowboy]

Dude, HeavyHitta absolutely owned you on this debate. He produced frame after frame of visual evidence. Around here we jokingly call him the pinata because he takes so many beatings. When you get schooled by the pinata, you've been schooled bad.

Don't miss your bus.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/i-46967.jpg

You don't want to be late for your next class.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[Mansta54]

the whole redskins team is overrated..





Well said!!!! :hammer:

[littlewebs]

nobody ever answers this question.hahahaha.

Can someone with an Extremeskins membership go over and start a thread asking everyone to come up with all their favorite times Roy Williams has been burned?

I have a feeling it will play out where they all get excited to bash on a Cowboys player they hate, naturally bring up the plays from week 2, and then draw a blank.

I would love to see this. Is someone willing to do it?

[Gryphon]

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9542704

Dallas Cowboys
Overrated: Williams is a good player when near the line of scrimmage, but he can't be called a top-tier safety because he struggles so much in coverage. He's a decent, not great player. His reputation would lead you to believe he was great.

Underrated: Drew Bledsoe is one of those quarterbacks who always gets picked apart, no matter what he does. But he had a heck of a year for the Cowboys, throwing for 3,639 yards and 23 touchdowns.
-----------------------
New York Giants
Overrated: Tight end Jeremy Shockey is a good player, but he should be a great one. He needs more focus. If that happens, watch out. Until then, he's not as good as many think.

Underrated: Guard Chris Snee is a nasty mauler who will soon be a Pro Bowl player. He won't back down from anyone and he's key to getting Tiki Barber all those yards.
-----------------------
Philadelphia Eagles
Overrated: Defensive end Jevon Kearse isn't the player he was with the Titans. He doesn't have the same burst and opponents don't have to account for on every play. He's still pretty good, but no longer an elite pass rusher.

Underrated: Right guard Shawn Andrews is developing into one of the better guards in the NFC. He can overpower an opponent.
------------------------
Washington Redskins
Overrated: Safety Adam Archuleta is a big hitter who has made some big plays, but he is a liability in coverage and isn't worth the money the 'Skins paid him.

Underrated: Fellow safety Sean Taylor is a monster player whose talent has been overshadowed by his off-field incident. He's an elite safety.

[1fisher]

Can someone with an Extremeskins membership go over and start a thread asking everyone to come up with all their favorite times Roy Williams has been burned?

I have a feeling it will play out where they all get excited to bash on a Cowboys player they hate, naturally bring up the plays from week 2, and then draw a blank.

I would love to see this. Is someone willing to do it?

If I hadn' t gotten banned for the third time I would gladly do it!:lmao2:

[TEK2000]

The following material is courtesy of the outstanding SACK MASTER of another Cowboys forum. Much thanks SACK!! You're the man for this info. (Edit.. crap the stats aren't showing up right but you can check those yourself at nfl.com or other stats sites)




Prisco is a KNOW Cowboy basher.

And what is even funnier, he has Taylor listed as underrated, and calls him an Elite Safety.

What the hell has Taylor done in the NFL to make anyone think he is Elite?

Here are Taylor's stats from the 1st two years in the league

YearTeamGTotalTcklAstSacksIntYdsAvgLgTDPass Def2004Washington Redskins157660161.048521.245092005Washington Redskins157060101.023417.032010TOTAL30146120262.06 11919.845019


Now here is Roy's stats from his 1st two years in the league
YearTeamGTotalTcklAstSacksIntYdsAvgLgTDPass Def2002Dallas Cowboys169988112.059018.085232003Dallas Cowboys167255172.026934.53906TOTAL3217114328471595 2.512429


Roy beats Sean in every category except Pass Deflections.

He has more tackles, more int's, more sacks, more forced fumbles, and more touchdowns than Taylor did in his 1st two years, but Roy is overrated, and Taylor is elite?

Complete BS.

Then you take season averages ....

Taylor
GTotalTcklAstSacksIntYdsAvgLgTDPass DefTOTAL30146120262.0611919.845019157360131359.519 .84509.5


Roy
GTotalTcklAstSacksIntYdsAvgLgTDPass DefTOTAL64346285616.51226422.0853241686.571.2515.2 51.62536622850.756


Again Roy wins in every category except pass deflections, and they tie in int's per year.

Hell, even if we break the stats down by Game, to be fair to Sean since he has not played a full 16 game season yet, Roy still has better stats.

Taylor
GTotalTcklAstSacksIntYdsAvgLgTDPass DefTOTAL30146120262.0611919.8450194.8674.0000.8670 .0670.2003.96719.8450.0000.633


Roy
GTotalTcklAstSacksIntYdsAvgLgTDPass DefTOTAL64346285616.51226422.0853245.4064.4530.953 0.1020.1884.12522.0850.0470.375


Shucks, Taylor finally beats Roy in two categories, passes defensed and ints pre game, but still looses in ever other category.

But yet Roy is overrated, and Taylor is an Elite Safety.


But hell, let's see what Scouts think.

Taylor
Grade: 76 | Key
Alert: C

Comment:
Taylor has exceptional athletic ability. He has good body control and change of direction. He is a very smooth runner and he has an ease of movement. He has the ability to make plays sideline to sideline. He has good overall speed and can run with most receivers. He has good physical strength and he can handle most receivers one on one. He did a nice job when he was matched up with tight ends in man to man coverage. However, Taylor lacks consistency at his position. He plays too high and does not have good knee bend in his back pedal. He takes poor angles to the ball at times and he will over run plays and gets himself out of position and gets caught up in the traffic. He does not break down on tackles in the open field and he is not a sure tackler. He is a grabber allowing receivers or backs to get extra yards on him.



Roy
Grade: 90 | Key
Alert: None

Comment:
Reads plays quickly, is aggressive and flashes the ability to disrupt running plays in the backfield. Uses hands fairly well, protects legs from cut blocks and flashes the ability to shed blocks quickly. Plays with discipline, rarely takes false steps and is efficient. Explodes into hits, plays with a mean streak and can force fumbles. Possesses good athletic ability, has adequate top-end speed and is capable of matching up with most tight ends. Is instinctive and shows good range in zone coverage. Times hits well, is physical and looks to punish receivers coming over the middle. Reads opposing quarterbacks' eyes, has good ball skills and is a playmaker. Is tall, fights for the ball while it's in the air and can compete for jump balls in the red zone as well as downfield. Has yet to miss a game and is durable. However, Williams doesn't have elite speed. Takes too long to open hips when forced to turn and run downfield and while rarely gets caught out of position lacks the second gear to recover once the receiver gets past him.


So what is the difference of a Grade of 76 and a Grade of 90?

GRADING SCALE 100-90 Elite Player89-80 Outstanding Player79-75 Solid Starter74-70 Good Starter69-65 Adequate Starter64-60 Good Backup59-55 Adequate Backup54-50 Marginal Backup49-45 Poor Player30 Developmental Player


That's funny. Scouts say Roy Williams is the Elite player, and Sean is just the solid starter.


Prisco is just a hatter who refuses to give the Boys any love.

F that fat boy and he can http://www.cowboys-video.com/images/smilies/kma.gif

He is the definition of a idiot.


Oh BTW.
It was Ronnie Lott HIMSELF that said he watches Roy when it comes to safeties that play like him.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

I wouldnt say scoutsinc is the determining factor. But calling Sean Taylor underrated is ridiculous. Hes an all or nothing player, very inconsistent.

[riggo]

isnt that scouting report a year old?

[riggo]

My brother wanted to leave with 2 mins. to go! I talked him into hanging around and we were both glad we did...... the TD was great and a 7th rounder burning Taylor was icing on the cake!:starspin

cowboyfans knock skins fans for gloating about the sweep last year....while you all talk about this play???

not to mention taylor redeeming himself by smacking the crap out of crayton to help seal the win in game 1 last year.....:confused:

[riggo]

I remember a certain game last year when a late Williams interception won the game. It's too bad about Roy's coverage skills.:rolleyes:

lspain, if youre talking about the eagles game, i've got to disagree. that was a god awful pass right to williams- and nobody else wearing green and white- by mcnabb. that play reminded me of the boys super bowl MVP larry browns INT.

[Mansta54]

cowboyfans knock skins fans for gloating about the sweep last year....while you all talk about this play???

not to mention taylor redeeming himself by smacking the crap out of crayton to help seal the win in game 1 last year.....:confused:




I think its ridiculous to gloat or brag just cause you beat us twice last season. Dude we are your hated rival and have beat that arse 15 of 18 and you gloat after winning 2 straight. Yeah, I think thats simply ridiculous. We own yall and that's not me talking, thats 15 of 18 talking. That's total and complete domination. It speaks volumes!!!

[jterrell]

The problem with the article is it was handled sophmorically like if we took a quick poll instead of employing real effort or even real thought.

They went with the gimmes. Might not be any more accurate after some effort but at least it would show. The guys who have been called overrated dozens of times were simply selected.

A few of the underrateds were at least worth a glance but seriously spend 20 minutes on each roster and review some tapes before compiling a list like this if it is a real atttempt at journalism.

A few NFCE thoughts.

Wash-- underrated, Chris Cooley. One of the rare players who was drafted outside round 1 by them and actually starts for the Skins.
overrated, Santana Moss. Moss is neither as bad as suggested before last seaosn nor as good as he is perceived after a great season. Truth is he was Washington's only real WR option and teams played 8 and 9 in the box to stop the run because they had no fear of Washington's passing attack.

NYG-- underrated, Lavar Arrington. Arrington was a bench player last year until the playoffs came then had perhaps the best game by a Redskin defender all year in the Skins playoff win. He has the talent to be an NFL defender of the year nominee next season. All the rest last season should have allowed his body to heal.
overrated, Eli Manning. Manning put up solid enough totals but looked awful doing it. He reaped great rewards from very good protection, outstanding skill position play around him and a monster defense.

Philly-- underrated, Brian Westbrook. Westbrook is the closest thing in the league to Tiki Barber and given some some holes in the running game he is an every down threat. Last season Philly didn't back him up with an inside runner and teams chose to cover Westbrook when WRs couldn't get open and QBs couldn't throw more than 10 yards accurately. He could have a big bounce back year with a healthy McNabb and Burkhalter to do some of the inside running.
overrated, Sean Dawkins. Dawkins has been perhaps the league's best free safety for 5 years or so but last season he really fell off and it coyuld be the lack of pass rush eliminated his ability to come up and make plays or it could be age(and the wear of so mnay games in 5 years) is finally slowing down his legs.

[AdamJT13]

lspain, if youre talking about the eagles game, i've got to disagree. that was a awful pass right to williams

The pass wasn't right to him, it was behind him and over his head --

http://fileserver1.jpghosting.com/images/Overhishead_0f5fb5ed5e4715fc92be34b676fa64d7.jpg


By the way, how'd Carlos Rogers do with that screen pass Matt Hasslebeck laid in his lap for an easy touchdown during the playoffs?

Oops.

[riggo]

I think its ridiculous to gloat or brag just cause you beat us twice last season. Dude we are your hated rival and have beat that arse 15 of 18 and you gloat after winning 2 straight. Yeah, I think thats simply ridiculous. We own yall and that's not me talking, thats 15 of 18 talking. That's total and complete domination. It speaks volumes!!!

its ok to gloat about a play that happened 2 years ago, but when said player gets redemption, its silly to gloat then?

ok.:confused:

[big dog cowboy]

By the way, how'd Carlos Rogers do with that screen pass Matt Hasslebeck laid in his lap for an easy touchdown during the playoffs?

Oops.
Think Paul Simon - slip sliding away.........

[riggo]

The pass wasn't right to him, it was behind him and over his head --

http://fileserver1.jpghosting.com/images/Overhishead_0f5fb5ed5e4715fc92be34b676fa64d7.jpg


By the way, how'd Carlos Rogers do with that screen pass Matt Hasslebeck laid in his lap for an easy touchdown during the playoffs?

Oops.

i'm sorry- did you say 'playoffs'?

yes, the skins were there.

[scottsp]

That's a pretty easy pick to make.

[jterrell]

Before I say anything, I think Roy is a very good SS - one of the best at his position. I don't think Roy would be a good FS, though.

Without a doubt - if Roy didn't have a star on his helmet, he would not be as hyped as he is.
Thats simply not true.

RW would be a star anywhere because he makes the hits that show up on ESPN. It was RW in the Pro Bowl wearing whatever red and white crap that told Chad Johnson he wouldn't score then held him down. It was RW in the Pro Bowl who injured Rod Smith.

If RW had half the free safety help that Polamalu had he would be an NFL defende rof th eyear by now.

FWIW I wonder at times myself about him getting beat deep but watching him in the Pro Bowl game showed me that when he isn't asked to both play the run and stop 30 yard posts he can quite well contain deep stuff.

No one believe Brunell could throw the ball that far and it shocked Dallas, period. RW was half silly to get burned twice but it was also scheme. What exactly had the Redskin offense done for the first 50 minutes of that game?

[riggo]

and, by the way, that pass was right to him.

[jterrell]

i'm sorry- did you say 'playoffs'?

yes, the skins were there.
For once, as a wildcard team, you wanna cookie?

[riggo]

For once, as a wildcard team, you wanna cookie?

dallas was the division winner?

no.

dallas was a wild card?

no.

you have a point, then?

no.

[Bizwah]

Thats simply not true.

What exactly had the Redskin offense done for the first 50 minutes of that game?

Excellent point.

I get a kick from Skins fans that say Moss "owned" us, but he did virtually nothing for 55 minutes (nor did any other Skin for that matter).....He didn't do a whole lot in game two either.

We were stupid to lose in game one......Heavily injured in game two.

We didn't have to do much this offseason to catch....and eventually pass them talent-wise.

[nchhalada333]

If Taylor gets his head on straight he could very well be one of the best in the league!

he is already one of the best.....

u could have said he could be THE BEST in the league if he had his head on straight and it would be fine

[riggo]

No one believe Brunell could throw the ball that far and it shocked Dallas, period. RW was half silly to get burned twice but it was also scheme. What exactly had the Redskin offense done for the first 50 minutes of that game?

the first pass was 39 yards. roy didnt think an NFL QB could throw it 39 yards?

[nchhalada333]

Wash-- underrated, Chris Cooley. One of the rare players who was drafted outside round 1 by them and actually starts for the Skins.
overrated, Santana Moss. Moss is neither as bad as suggested before last seaosn nor as good as he is perceived after a great season. Truth is he was Washington's only real WR option and teams played 8 and 9 in the box to stop the run because they had no fear of Washington's passing attack.



you are correct about cooley

however, I believe that Santana Moss is not overrated

wen u put 8 in the box u have three DB's in pass defense

most likely one safety and two corners

all teams rolled the safety over to santana to double team him

santana played through the double team this and was the second leading reciever in the NFC

[AdamJT13]

That's a pretty easy pick to make.

Certainly, because NFL players never drop passes that are behind them and over their heads, let alone passes that hit them squarely in the chest. Especially not defensive backs -- they never drop passes behind them and over their heads, and they catch everything thrown right to them one-handed while high-stepping into the end zone.

Except Carlos Rogers, of course.

[AdamJT13]

i'm sorry- did you say 'playoffs'?

yes, the skins were there.

I like pancakes.

[scottsp]

Certainly, because NFL players never drop passes that are behind them and over their heads, let alone passes that hit them squarely in the chest. Especially not defensive backs -- they never drop passes behind them and over their heads, and they catch everything thrown right to them one-handed while high-stepping into the end zone.

Except Carlos Rogers, of course.

Well, that he didn't goof the play doesn't necessarily give this one a high degree of difficulty. Goofing on Carlos Rogers is always welcome. :)

[SkinsandTerps]

santana played through the double team and was the second leading receiver in the NFC

In the NFC. But also the NFL.

[AdamJT13]

Well, that he didn't goof the play doesn't necessarily give this one a high degree of difficulty.

I didn't say it was extremely difficult, but it wasn't an easy catch, either. Wide receivers are praised when they catch a pass thrown high and behind them. Nobody says those kinds of catches are easy. So why is it different when it's Roy?

[scottsp]

I didn't say it was extremely difficult, but it wasn't an easy catch, either. Wide receivers are praised when they catch a pass thrown high and behind them. Nobody says those kinds of catches are easy. So why is it different when it's Roy?

It's not to take anything away from Williams, but this was an uncontested grab. He wasn't running away from the play. He was facing and eyeballing the passer as the play unfolded. As interceptions go, they don't get much easier. Of course, we have Donovan to thank for the misread.

Perhaps if Roy was battling in the air with a receiver or making the grab while an opponent was grabbing and clutching, I'd call it tough. But this was basically a practice pick.

Now his interception vs. Carolina later in the year...that was a beautiful nab. Very tough, in deep coverage. Loved it.

[ThreeSportStar80]

I actually think Roy Williams is overrated, the guy needs to cover better. Bill Parcells will be the first one to tell you that about Roy.

[TEK2000]

I actually think Roy Williams is overrated, the guy needs to cover better. Bill Parcells will be the first one to tell you that about Roy.


HAHA.. hell Bill Parcells has never seen a COMPLETE player in his life.. at least he wouldn't EVER let the player know he thought they were the complete package. Of course Parcells would fault find in Roy's game... just like he does with every other player he's seen play.

[TEK2000]

This Prisco article may be absolute rubbish.. like every article of his I've seen... but one thing is rock solid. There's not a statement he could ever make that is more true than this:

It might not be the Pro Bowl, nor do we give them a trip to Hawaii, but at least they can take satisfaction in knowing somebody appreciates what they do.

SOMEBODY appreciates what those guys do... unfortunately, its 1 guy that is a complete idiot.

[AdamJT13]

As interceptions go, they don't get much easier.

Should I list all of our interceptions last year that were easier? I could even list some dropped interceptions that would have been easier (no, not the one by Carlos Rogers drop, I mean those for the Cowboys).

[CrazyCowboy]

You know whats overrated? The overrating of Roy Williams, everyone and their mother does it now. Apparently now he's no more than an in the box scrub. He's not a top-tier safety? That's laughable.

I agree.......I would not trade Roy for anyone.

[superpunk]

I like pancakes.

Brilliant response.:lmao:

Every bit as legitimate a point as riggo made with his "playoffs" retort.

[The30YardSlant]

the first pass was 39 yards. roy didnt think an NFL QB could throw it 39 yards?

I wouldnt blame him. Brunell isnt exactly John Elway, even his own media dubbed him "Noodle Arm". Looking at the video, he really rears back and heaves it just get it that far

[The30YardSlant]

HAHA.. hell Bill Parcells has never seen a COMPLETE player in his life.. at least he wouldn't EVER let the player know he thought they were the complete package. Of course Parcells would fault find in Roy's game... just like he does with every other player he's seen play.

I beg to differ

http://www.acclaimposters.com/_gallery/large/10108582.jpg

[riggo]

I wouldnt blame him. Brunell isnt exactly John Elway, even his own media dubbed him "Noodle Arm". Looking at the video, he really rears back and heaves it just get it that far

first, its ridiculous to think that an NFL QB couldnt throw it that far. but even if he didnt know, whats the excuse for pass #2? it went 50 yards in the air just like the first one. is there an NFL QB who cant throw it 50? of course not. i know you didnt bring it up initially, but i was just curious.

i looked at that video again, and there was help to roys right on the first pass. i still dont know why he wasnt in better position, given that there was help. its natural to want to cover for well liked players, but they are human. the excuses given for roy get a little tough to believe, s'all.

[Gfunk]

same things everyone has been saying for years now

yawn

[The30YardSlant]

same things everyone has been saying for years now

yawn

I agree

Every year, the Redskins spending sprees will put them in the SB

Every year, they fail to live up to expectations

[The30YardSlant]

first, its ridiculous to think that an NFL QB couldnt throw it that far. but even if he didnt know, whats the excuse for pass #2? it went 50 yards in the air just like the first one. is there an NFL QB who cant throw it 50? of course not. i know you didnt bring it up initially, but i was just curious.

i looked at that video again, and there was help to roys right on the first pass. i still dont know why he wasnt in better position, given that there was help. its natural to want to cover for well liked players, but they are human. the excuses given for roy get a little tough to believe, s'all.

No one is excusing the first TD pass, he should have been deeper. 5 more yards and it's either a pick or Moss doesnt have clear sight of the ball.

The second TD was all on Glenn, his job was to bump Moss more into the middle of the field, and he didnt do it. Roy tried ti cover for him, but was too far away to make a play.

[MSalz87]

Roy Williams was confused on the 39 yarder, he must have thought we still had Danny Wuerffel who couldnt throw a ball 40 yards to save his life.

[REDVOLUTION]

dallas was the division winner?

no.

dallas was a wild card?

no.

you have a point, then?

no.

I think that bragging about making playoffs and scoring ONE TD in 2 playoff games is pretty bad(yeah 2nd TD was when game was over)... I mean... didnt Brunnell throw for under 100 yards in one of those games? Where was Moss when it mattered?

Way to represent!?:rolleyes:

[Hostile]

I think that bragging about making playoffs and scoring ONE TD in 2 playoff games is pretty bad(yeah 2nd TD was when game was over)... I mean... didnt Brunnell throw for under 100 yards in one of those games? Where was Moss when it mattered?

Way to represent!?:rolleyes:I completely agree.

We last won a playoff game in the Wildcard Playoffs after the 1996 season. We annihilated the Vikings in that game by the way. Since then we have lost in the Wildcard Playoffs twice.

I don't see Cowboys fans lauding that win. Yeah, I know it was 10 years ago. We still don't bring it up.

The last significant game we laud is Super Bowl XXX. Until we win another one I hope it stays that way. I'd hate for Cowboys fans to be all puffed up over 1 lousy win that was insignificant in the long run.

[The30YardSlant]

I completely agree.

We last won a playoff game in the Divisional Playoffs after the 1996 season. We annihilated the Vikings in that game by the way. Since then we have lost in the Wildcard Playoffs twice.

I don't see Cowboys fans lauding that win. Yeah, I know it was 10 years ago. We still don't bring it up.

The last significant game we laud is Super Bowl XXX. Until we win another one I hope it stays that way. I'd hate for Cowboys fans to be all puffed up over 1 lousy win that was insignificant in the long run.

The Vikings game was the Wild-Card game, we lost the divisional game to Carolina that year.

[Sam I Am]

I agree

Every year, the Redskins spending sprees will put them in the SB

Every year, they fail to live up to expectations
That quote sounds like me.

I agree

Every year, the Yankees spending sprees will win them a WS

Every year, they fail to live up to expectations

:lmao:

[The30YardSlant]

That quote sounds like me.



:lmao:

http://www.catlin.edu/actions/getimage.php?kind=image&asset_id=13480&rev=16483383

[Hostile]

The Vikings game was the Wild-Card game, we lost the divisional game to Carolina that year.You are correct, thanks. I'll correct it.

[riggo]

I completely agree.

We last won a playoff game in the Wildcard Playoffs after the 1996 season. We annihilated the Vikings in that game by the way. Since then we have lost in the Wildcard Playoffs twice.

I don't see Cowboys fans lauding that win. Yeah, I know it was 10 years ago. We still don't bring it up.

The last significant game we laud is Super Bowl XXX. Until we win another one I hope it stays that way. I'd hate for Cowboys fans to be all puffed up over 1 lousy win that was insignificant in the long run.

http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=916055&postcount=137

then again, it is 1fisher.....

again, for a fan to brag about another teams performance (without a key O lineman, since we are ok with injury-to-O lineman excuses here) in the playoffs when said fans team did not make the playoffs is insane. to say the least.

[The30YardSlant]

http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=916055&postcount=137

then again, it is 1fisher.....

again, for a fan to brag about another teams performance (without a key O lineman, since we are ok with injury-to-O lineman excuses here) in the playoffs when said fans team did not make the playoffs is insane. to say the least.

By tha same token, talking smack towards a fanbase who's team has beaten yours 14 of the last 17 teams we've played and leads the all-time series 54-36 is insane, to say the least.

[Hostile]

http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=916055&postcount=137

then again, it is 1fisher.....

again, for a fan to brag about another teams performance (without a key O lineman, since we are ok with injury-to-O lineman excuses here) in the playoffs when said fans team did not make the playoffs is insane. to say the least.What exactly does this have to do with the Playoffs? When did Crayton burn Taylor in the Playoffs? Where does he say that's the Playoffs?

Are you even talking about the same subject I am? I highly doubt it.

[The30YardSlant]

What exactly does this have to do with the Playoffs? When did Crayton burn Taylor in the Playoffs? Where does he say that's the Playoffs?

Are you even talking about the same subject I am? I highly doubt it.

He's just a Cowboy obsessed hater. Look at his posting record on ES, I'd guess at least a third of his posts are bashing the Cowboys and proclaiming how much better the Skins are. Hell, he's got nearly 700 posts on a Cowboys board in 9 months

[Hostile]

He's just a Cowboy obsessed hater. Look at his posting record on ES, I'd guess at least a third of his posts are bashing the Cowboys and proclaiming how much better the Skins are. Hell, he's got nearly 700 posts on a Cowboys board in 9 monthsThat's all fine and dandy, but if he's going to get his panties in a wad he should at least stick with the topic at hand and not blather on and on like he knows something. His response to me had nothing whatsoever to do with my post in response to Yo Mick.

[riggo]

What exactly does this have to do with the Playoffs? When did Crayton burn Taylor in the Playoffs? Where does he say that's the Playoffs?

Are you even talking about the same subject I am? I highly doubt it.

you have to read the posts leading up to that. i thought you had.

[riggo]

That's all fine and dandy, but if he's going to get his panties in a wad he should at least stick with the topic at hand and not blather on and on like he knows something. His response to me had nothing whatsoever to do with my post in response to Yo Mick.

my panties were in a wad? :p:

[Hostile]

you have to read the posts leading up to that. i thought you had.Which posts?

I responded to Yo Mick's post. Then you chimed in with something seemingly irrelevant to what he was talking about, and what I was talking about.

Try to follow along here riggo, I haven't got time to draw a road map every time you get lost in the fog.

my panties were in a wad? :p: I'm assuming you got them from Clinton Portis since you find nothing unusual about the habit.

[scottsp]

Should I list all of our interceptions last year that were easier? I could even list some dropped interceptions that would have been easier (no, not the one by Carlos Rogers drop, I mean those for the Cowboys).

Yay. He caught it. Heh.

[jterrell]

the first pass was 39 yards. roy didnt think an NFL QB could throw it 39 yards?
1st RW was not responsible for covering Moss at all. That assignment was given to Aaron Glenn in that coverage. That has been covered ad nauseum and admitted to by Glenn.

And after a day of not throwing anything beyond 20 yards yea throwing 39 yards seemed out of reach for Brunell.

But we are dealing with base ignorance here.
You do not know who was covering who or what scheme we were in.

[jterrell]

you are correct about cooley

however, I believe that Santana Moss is not overrated

wen u put 8 in the box u have three DB's in pass defense

most likely one safety and two corners

all teams rolled the safety over to santana to double team him

santana played through the double team this and was the second leading reciever in the NFC

The safety helping with Moss is a nice thought but it seldom materialized. For instance Dallas allowed Moss 2 TDs and neither time the safety was called upon to cover over the top.

The plain truth is Moss did not get that much respect entering the season. He was seen as a first round bust not a star quality guy. The Skins found ways to take advantage of his quickness on hitches and use his speed on deep plays and he produced at a great clip. He is clearly a good player.

But there are plenty of folks who now assume he is what his totals were last season and that's simply not the case.

Franchise Wrs beat double coverage every play. It isn't that hard to beat a CB with over the top help.

[Zippy Speedster]

I wholeheartedly agree on the Bledsoe assessment. That Roy Williams one is laughable though. Just an easy target because he had to go marry a celeb. Terry Glenn, or should i say, Bill Parcell's shoe-shiner, is the most overrated player on the Cowboys. Never have I seen a player who likes to take more games off (yes, games, not just plays) and still be reveared as a "God" by many of the fans. I swear, if the Tuna farted and said it smelled like roses, alot of you would buy it. Oh wait, he did fart, it's name is Terry.

[Hostile]

I wholeheartedly agree on the Bledsoe assessment. That Roy Williams one is laughable though. Just an easy target because he had to go marry a celeb. Terry Glenn, or should i say, Bill Parcell's shoe-shiner, is the most overrated player on the Cowboys. Never have I seen a player who likes to take more games off (yes, games, not just plays) and still be reveared as a "God" by many of the fans. I swear, if the Tuna farted and said it smelled like roses, alot of you would buy it. Oh wait, he did fart, it's name is Terry.The Roy Williams marriage to Kelly Rowland never happened.

[big dog cowboy]

The Roy Williams marriage to Kelly Rowland never happened.
Almost everything in that post was wrong. At least he was consistent.

[Bizwah]

my panties were in a wad? :p:

Nice to finally see you agree with Hostile about something.

[Hostile]

Nice to finally see you agree with Hostile about something.It surprised me too.

[vicjagger]

Underrated: ...If Taylor gets his head on straight he could very well be one of the best in the league!

I'm kinda hoping someone knocks it off first.

[big dog cowboy]

I'm kinda hoping someone knocks it off first.
Maybe Roy could line up at WR a few plays. :D

[MichaelWinicki]

Maybe Roy could line up at WR a few plays. :D

Wouldn't work...

He'd only want to work short routes around the line of scrimmage. He's not good on deep routes. ;)

[TunaoftheLand]

Roy Williams is the most overrated player in the entire NFL? Wow. I thought he was good. I mean he's not the best cover saftey in the league, but when he wraps up, he is a damn good tackler. That list is BS. Who does Prisco think he is rating Roy like that? Roy Williams is the best defensive player in the NFC East.

[big dog cowboy]

Roy Williams is the most overrated player in the entire NFL? Wow. I thought he was good. I mean he's not the best cover saftey in the league, but when he wraps up, he is a damn good tackler. That list is BS. Who does Prisco think he is rating Roy like that? Roy Williams is the best defensive player in the NFC East.
:welcome: to the board!!!!!!!

[Bob Sacamano]

dallas was the division winner?

no.

dallas was a wild card?

no.

you have a point, then?

no.

yeah, the most pathetic wildcard win in the history of the NFL! be proud of yourselves

btw, why you mentioning division win?

[Bob Sacamano]

Gfunk
Banned




Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Redskin Nation
Posts: 114

:lmao:

[DallasEast]

Gfunk
Banned




Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Redskin Nation
Posts: 114

:lmao:nah nah nah nah!

nah nah nah nah!

hey hey hey!

goodbye!

:laugh1:

[Bob Sacamano]

^^^long-time coming eh? :)

[DallasEast]

^^^long-time coming eh? :)I'm surprised that he lasted as long as he did.

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm surprised that he lasted as long as he did.

next on the list...

Mossburner

or so I hope

[DallasEast]

next on the list...

Mossburner

or so I hopeNah. He can stay. Or, at least, he can stay long enough for us to see if our defense can contain Moss in both games this season. If so, his username is going to get some LONG, overdue teasing. :cool:

[Bob Sacamano]

Nah. He can stay. Or, at least, he can stay long enough for us to see if our defense can contain Moss in both games this season. If so, his username is going to get some LONG, overdue teasing. :cool:

it's not because of his username, it's because he's such an idiot, seriously, the guy is a freakin' moron

[DallasEast]

it's not because of his username, it's because he's such an idiot, seriously, the guy is a freakin' moronI won't argue with you about that, but posters aren't banned for being morons. If that were the case, the forum would probably average one banning per day every day.

[Bob Sacamano]

true, but I was thinking that since there are so many morons, and he's a Redskin moron...lol

ok, so my proposition won't go very far, but it can't hurt to try ;)

[Dale]

You know, though, who else is a truly good candidate for the "Overrated" list on our team?

Flozell, maybe? Marco Rivera?

Other than some of those aging types along our offensive line, who else is truly a candidate for such a list?

I think that's one reason why Roy becomes such a target for these lists.

[jterrell]

You know, though, who else is a truly good candidate for the "Overrated" list on our team?

Flozell, maybe? Marco Rivera?

Other than some of those aging types along our offensive line, who else is truly a candidate for such a list?

I think that's one reason why Roy becomes such a target for these lists.
Thats actually a solid point. Glover and LA were probably the other 2 candidates based on pro bowl considerations.

But again thats goes to how shallow the effort was. Who does BP overrate? Maybe Tony Romo. Maybe Bledsoe, Maybe Terry Glenn.

As fans overrating goes I might be inclined to go with a guy we both like Dale: Patrick Crayton. He has made some awesome plays as a 3rd WR beating Sean Taylor to get a win and what not but he really hasn't proven anything yet. Or maybe even Marcus Spears or Chris Canty. Both good young players who we probably overrate based on pure potential more than actual production.

In the end even if you use the de facto RW reference for the Boys its one thing but to expand that to make him the most overrated player in the NFL is just plain stupid.

My task for this guy if he should choose to accept it would be to find one offensive player in the NFL who would make that statement. I doubt he could find even one and I am certain he couldn't find one WR or QB to make it. NFL players respect Roy and realize he could end a season with one hit.

[riggo]

Which posts?

I responded to Yo Mick's post. Then you chimed in with something seemingly irrelevant to what he was talking about, and what I was talking about.

Try to follow along here riggo, I haven't got time to draw a road map every time you get lost in the fog.

I'm assuming you got them from Clinton Portis since you find nothing unusual about the habit.

sorry i was out of town all weekend and also that my last post was hasty as i was in a rush.

my intent was to respond to your post when you said something about "I'd hate for Cowboys fans to be all puffed up over 1 lousy win that was insignificant in the long run."

1fisher was boasting about the play where crayton burned taylor, and hopefully i posted that link. i said that i thought it was silly to talk about that play since tayor redeemed himself with a hit on crayton that helped seal the game.

my point about the playoffs was in response to the posters who (even since i posted last) knock the skins 'offensive' (no pun intended) performance in the playoffs, yet the boys werent there.

i think the points overlapped, thus the confusion.

on another note, i'm drinking a sam adams scotch ale at the moment. anyone else enjoying a decent beer? :cheers:

[riggo]

yeah, the most pathetic wildcard win in the history of the NFL! be proud of yourselves

btw, why you mentioning division win?

first, thats that i was talking about in my last few posts. the skins were there, summer. knocking the performance is nuts.

i mentioned the division win cuz when i responded, jterrell made light of the fact that the skins were a wild card team.

how was your weekend, btw?

:cheers: to you too.

[Bob Sacamano]

how was your weekend, btw?

:cheers: to you too.

it was alright, go to the imagezone, made a sig today for your boy ST, thought you might like it

[riggo]

it was alright, go to the imagezone, made a sig today for your boy ST, thought you might like it

awww, come on. that dude isnt going to jail! but its still funny- but only a little bit.

the civil suit is another deal.....

[Bob Sacamano]

the civil suit is another deal.....

he'll have to give up a few thou, big deal

[dfense]

Maybe when he stops spitting on people......

[Gibbs II]

I completely agree.

We last won a playoff game in the Wildcard Playoffs after the 1996 season. We annihilated the Vikings in that game by the way. Since then we have lost in the Wildcard Playoffs twice.

I don't see Cowboys fans lauding that win. Yeah, I know it was 10 years ago. We still don't bring it up.

The last significant game we laud is Super Bowl XXX. Until we win another one I hope it stays that way. I'd hate for Cowboys fans to be all puffed up over 1 lousy win that was insignificant in the long run.

That game saved our season, gibbs, brunell, santana, and the team. Trust me. First of all, look at the last 17 7/8th games before that. The offense was miserable at best and it still seemed like we couldnt get anything going even with Gibbs self appointed QB in brunell. Him along with steve smith proved that the idea of a small fast WR was still good in the NFL, saving santana and snyder from getting critisized about overpaying a small wide out.

That game launched our season and if it wasnt for that win, say we were still 5-6 even if we still lost against dallas, if it wasnt for that win, the chances of us pulling off 5 in a row would have gone down dramatically.

We were in the bottom of the barrel with 5 minutes left, i cant describe how much that game helped us. It was on monday night, against our rivals who have been just killing the skins with tough loses for what seemed like forever, and that win gave us the balls to say that we can and should win.

[Gibbs II]

sorry i was out of town all weekend and also that my last post was hasty as i was in a rush.

my intent was to respond to your post when you said something about "I'd hate for Cowboys fans to be all puffed up over 1 lousy win that was insignificant in the long run."

1fisher was boasting about the play where crayton burned taylor, and hopefully i posted that link. i said that i thought it was silly to talk about that play since tayor redeemed himself with a hit on crayton that helped seal the game.

my point about the playoffs was in response to the posters who (even since i posted last) knock the skins 'offensive' (no pun intended) performance in the playoffs, yet the boys werent there.

i think the points overlapped, thus the confusion.

on another note, i'm drinking a sam adams scotch ale at the moment. anyone else enjoying a decent beer? :cheers:


No, ther is nothing to apoligize for. What you said in that context was perfectly clear and understandable. I honestly dont know why he got upset at you.

I mean look at it, you bolded exactly what you were responding to and made a valid point. the "7th round draft pick" TD win was 50x less important than the Santana catches.

http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=916778&postcount=205

[big dog cowboy]

that win gave us the balls to say that we can and should win.
In September. Hos was just pointing out (corectly I might add) that the standard for the Cowboys is how we play in January when it counts. While losing always hurts, a game in September means nothing compared to a game much more significant or important in January. Hang your hats on W's I agree. But keep everything in perspective and remember there are more important games to be played.

[2233boys]

Washington Redskins

Underrated: Fellow safety Sean Taylor is a monster player whose talent has been overshadowed by his off-field incident. He's an elite safety. UTTER BS

[Gibbs II]

In September. Hos was just pointing out (corectly I might add) that the standard for the Cowboys is how we play in January when it counts. While losing always hurts, a game in September means nothing compared to a game much more significant or important in January. Hang your hats on W's I agree. But keep everything in perspective and remember there are more important games to be played.

2 points.

Both responses to the bold.

That game in september meant that much because of what i posted above. Simple as that.


Without that win, we probably wouldnt have gotten into the playoffs.

Of course wins in january are more important simply because if you lose, you dont play anymore, but thats win this WIN was so damn important. And i do agree that a loss in september isnt going to end the season but im not talking about the loss for you guys, im just talking about what the win did for us. The culture of the past 5 years has been on of false hope and disaster more or less. That win quite singlehandedly changed all of that. And on the other si

[Hostile]

2 points.

Both responses to the bold.

That game in september meant that much because of what i posted above. Simple as that.How incredibly sad.


Without that win, we probably wouldnt have gotten into the playoffs.Every win is important. You Skins fans are trying to use that win to get under skin here. It is tired. Laud your September Super Bowl somewhere else.

I for one have NEVER bagged on the Washington Redskins for the 2 Super Bowls in the strike years. I respect Champions.

I have utter disdain for the weak smack of "we swept you in 2005." Whoop dee freaking doo. I went on ES after both games and offered my congratulations. It's called being a sportsman and even a gentleman.

Some of your cohorts around here wouldn't know class if it jumped up and bit them in the shorts.

Of course wins in january are more important simply because if you lose, you dont play anymore, but thats win this WIN was so damn important. And i do agree that a loss in september isnt going to end the season but im not talking about the loss for you guys, im just talking about what the win did for us. The culture of the past 5 years has been on of false hope and disaster more or less. That win quite singlehandedly changed all of that. And on the other siLike I said, how incredibly sad.

[Kevin]

This thread has become a circus. I mean seriously, its up there with the likes of the Barnum Brothers and Cirque Du Soleil.

The same arguments made in this thread have not developed at all since their conception. What makes you think bringing it all up again is going to solve anything?

Never will a Cowboy fan admit that Sean Taylor is better. Why? Because Roy Williams is your Safety, and you freaking love the guy! The same goes for Redskins fans and Sean Taylor. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp. No matter what stats are presented, or images and video clips are brought to our attention, fans will always stay loyal to their team's players.

The only reason that the Sean Taylor vs. Roy Williams debate exists is because both teams have fantastic safeties with galaxies of potential. We love that fact, and we will defend it to our deathbeds.

Just as all the Cowboy fans have been saying, "Sure, you can focus on a few mistakes made by Roy- but look at all the marvelous plays he's made." The same thing can be said for Sean. Skins fans will hate highlighting Roy's positives just as much as Boys refuse to respect Taylor.

All the media that's been presented here hardly proves a point as to either safeties skill. Anyone that knows how to use Google could make Peyton Manning look like Ryan Leaf and vice versa.

As for the constant upbringing of the infamous 14-13 game. Alright, it happened. It was awesome...but it's almost been a year now. I know it was a heartbreaker for Boys fans, but it's time to stop beating the dead horse. Skins fans are constantly trying to prove that the Skins were better than the Cowboys last year. Stop pointing to 14-13 (a game in which the Cowboys outplayed us and we admittedly got lucky at the end), and take a look at the fact that we made the playoffs, and they didn't. If you are going to focus on a game, focus on the 35-7 game, where we actually were the better team. The fourteen to thirteen game has got to be incredibly irritating for these guys to constantly hear about. They know what happened.

That being said, if the same had happened to the Redskins we'd never stop hearing about it, either. It's all wishful thinking. The Dallas/Washington rivalry will always be heated, and it will have it's grasp on trivial things such as football message boards, as well.

My fellow Skins brethren- your attempts to talk down on Cowboys players and gain praise of Skins players are simly futile. This is CowboysZone- this is a place for people to talk about the Cowboys. If the Redskins are to be brought up, it is going to be in a negative fashion. You must come to understand this.