EMMITT v. BARRY

[MONT17]

the SKins board has a 13 page debate of EMMIT v. BARRY and since this is all Hypothetical I wanted to add a little twist. You know the rhetoric of those fans, who EMMITT made careers rushing v. their teams. Some respect the POWER some belittle it by saying it was his OLINE...


A redskin fan actually said he would fear BARRY more with those COWBOY teams than he did EMMITT who was I guess a product of the system!!! My first thought was he didnt understand fooball but then I went with it and tried not to dismiss it as lack of knowlege about the NFL but about personalities!!!

Now before we bring up the tired old comparison in this exercise in monotany I wanted to take this fantansy and turn it into reality based on what I know. based on the psyche of BARRY and JIMMY!!!


If BARRY played for the COWBOYS during the same time as EMMITT, what type of player would he have been... IMHO BARRY would have been traded by JIMMY JOHNSON for about 10 or 12 maybe more draft picks and some players going into his contract season... BARRY running style did not fit the man and his VISION let alone the NFC EAST...

BARRY had problems with BOBBY ROSS he loved WAYNE FONTS, why? IF BARRY quit on ROSS he would have tried to quit on JIMMY 2 weeks into TC or forced a trade. BUT JIMMY was too smart for that, if u didnt fit his system u were gone, PERIOD. Big name trades like HERSCHEL and LOCKHART would have been accompanied by BARRY SANDERS!!!!


then ADD into the mix STRONG PERSONALITIES... like IRVIN, AIKMAN, MOOSE, HALEY, Jr. NATE among others, BARRYs bla-se "ah shucks" personality would have not mixed well with a group of guys who despised losing and cared nothing about STATS and ESPN HIGHLIGHTS!!!



other key points that would have expedited the BARRY SANDERS trade, much like the COLTS traded MARSHALL FAULK!!!


1. ALL PRO FB was of no use with BARRYs running style.
2. 3rd and 1 would be nightmares with no QB sneak in the playbook.
3. poor playoff performances time and time again.
4. poor rushing yards on grass and cold weather.
5. lack of catching and blocking ability.
6. NO GOALLINE RB (I'm sorry but I dont see "TOUCHDOWN" TOMMY VARDELL scoring 25 TDs for the COWBOYS of the mid 90s)



so besides the obvious football issues (just a few listed above) BARRYs personality would not have fit in DALLAS so all of u BARRY apologist now that u finnaly realize he is not coming back u can stop with the fantasy of if he PLAYED for JIMMY JOHNSON!!!


Now I guess we can talk about who JIMMY would have traded him to and for what?

[jksmith269]

A few years back ESPN did an interview with the Lions O line during Barrys time and they hated blocking for him because he rarely went where the play was desgined to go. So everyones argument about him behind our line is moot if he wouldn't have run where he was supposed to.

[jazzcat22]

Emmitt = The Greatest Ever

Debate Over !!!!

[EMMITTnROY]

Emmitt = The Greatest Ever

Debate Over !!!!
:hammer:

[the kid 05]

i don't get the point of comparing the two, they were polar opposites in everything....and the one who was the better is/was/always will be on top. case closed

[Yeagermeister]

Emmitt = The Greatest Ever

Debate Over !!!!
Tell it to this guy :banghead:

http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57999

[ravidubey]

Emmitt Smith never ran for -8 yards in a playoff game. ENOUGH SAID.

BWT, 2002 just called, it wants its thread back.

[daniukid]

If you wanted to win championships- your man was Smith. All the Detroits, Seattles, Zonas of the world can have the flash called Sanders...but no championships. It's that simple.

[Bizwah]

I think Barry would've been a very good back under us.....I don't think he would've been any better, or any worse than he was.

As a team, I don't think we'd have won three SBs in five years. I'm not sure we would even win one.

Why?

It was Emmitt's drive that fueled our running game. It was Emmitt's drive that willed us to victory in '93 against the Giants. It was Emmitt's competitive drive that willed us to victory in SB 28.

And that's really the difference between the two backs.

People can say that Barry was more electric, faster, dynamic, prettier, etc. But Emmitt had it where it counts.

Heart, desire, competitiveness......He had these qualities in spades.

Barry seriously lacked these qualities.

Now, I'm not saying I wouldn't have wanted Barry, but Emmitt was a RB that won us championships.

[2233boys]

I think Barry would've been a very good back under us.....I don't think he would've been any better, or any worse than he was.

As a team, I don't think we'd have won three SBs in five years. I'm not sure we would even win one.

Why?

It was Emmitt's drive that fueled our running game. It was Emmitt's drive that willed us to victory in '93 against the Giants. It was Emmitt's competitive drive that willed us to victory in SB 28.

And that's really the difference between the two backs.

People can say that Barry was more electric, faster, dynamic, prettier, etc. But Emmitt had it where it counts.

Heart, desire, competitiveness......He had these qualities in spades.

Barry seriously lacked these qualities.

Now, I'm not saying I wouldn't have wanted Barry, but Emmitt was a RB that won us championships.
Nice post...

I saw some posts in this thread that alluded to this, but did you guys know that in the time that Emmitt and Barry's career coincided that Barry always, (every year) had more negative rushing yardage. Barry was -1, -2, -1, +25 type back. Barry danced around in the backfield trying to make something happen, Emmitt would hit the hole no matter how small, made would be tacklers miss and take off, take a hit spin out of it and go for more.

Emmitt was awesome at picking up blocks, and protecting Troy, Barry not so much. Both were ok at out of the backfield catching the ball. Barry was a more electric runner. Emmitt was the more effective runner.

Personally, I could see someone saying that Barry was a better runner and have him ahead of Emmitt on their list, in fact I could see someone having Emmitt at 4th on their list. No lower or they are just really stupid.

My list

Payton
Smith
Sanders
Brown
Dorsett

[Future]

A few years back ESPN did an interview with the Lions O line during Barrys time and they hated blocking for him because he rarely went where the play was desgined to go. So everyones argument about him behind our line is moot if he wouldn't have run where he was supposed to.

speaking of which, i saw a stat a while back on ESPN or something saying he had more carries for losses than anybody ever or something to that extent. emmit however very rarely was dropped behind the line. It reminds me of julius b/c hes much a barry sanders like runner, threat to breakt he big one but will lose yards like his rookie season. last year he was more of a downhill back and he seemed to lose some of his explosive ability.

[2233boys]

speaking of which, i saw a stat a while back on ESPN or something saying he had more carries for losses than anybody ever or something to that extent. emmit however very rarely was dropped behind the line. It reminds me of julius b/c hes much a barry sanders like runner, threat to breakt he big one but will lose yards like his rookie season. last year he was more of a downhill back and he seemed to lose some of his explosive ability.
I just posted that. :)

See above

[Future]

I just posted that. :)

See above

lol, either i skimmed over that or we were posting at the same time

either way you beat me to it...good work :bang2:

[2much2soon]

Plus Emmitt once hit a golf ball 394 yards.
Thats right, 394 yards.
Has nothing to do with this debate but I heard about it as I watched the celeb golf thing in Tahoe.
Even altitude-adjusted thats a monster drive. For anybody.
Not trying to hijack this thread but its pretty cool watching some of those guys play golf.

[ghst187]

They are very different styles and each bring something a bit different to the table.
I grew up near Stillwater and still am a very big Ok St fan. I saw Barry play in college several times (at the stadium and every other time on tv). I used to think that Barry was the better back but looking back I've changed my mind.
Barry was all flash and sizzle. Barry came out in goaline and short yardage situations, as well as definite passing plays.
Emmitt was a first down back, a second down back, a third down back, a phenomenal blocker and pass protection guy (probably one of the very best RBs at it, ever), short yardage, long yardage, and a lethal receiving threat out of the backfield. Emmitt did everything and did everything at the highest level. Emmitt was far more a complete back and seems to have been the much better teammate and most importantly...a true leader & champion.

For every highlight reel run of Barry's, you could find 2 or 3 negative yardage carries of his. For every highlight reel run of Emmitt's, you could find 3 or 4 4-8 yard runs, a pass reception, and two pass protection blocks that kept Troy upright.
I love Barry, but I'd take Emmitt on my team over Barry everyday and twice on Sundays, (and 3x in the Super Bowl)

[CM Duck]

If Barry was our RB during the '93 Giants game. And seperated his shoulder, I do not see him playing through that pain. I picture this happening...

I see barry going to the sideline after the play and heading straight for the bench. Jimmy and the head trainer follow him to the bench and the trainer says "how do you feel?" then Jimmy says "Can you go on? This is a huge game we need you out there if you can go" Then barry replies with that stupid laugh and says "HAR,HAR,HAR,HAR there is NO WAY I am going back back into the game, I hurt my shoulder."

Barry didn't have HALF of the heart that EMMITT did for the game, hence his early retirement while he still had plenty "gas" in the tank.

That's what puts EMMITT way above barry IMO, his heart and desire to win and be the best. NOT his O-line and Moose. While their contributions are very much appreciated by fans like me, there is no way anybody can give them 100% credit for EMMITT'S accomplishments, sorry.

OH! and I seriously doubt in that game back in '93 at Giant's Stadium that Jimmy HAD to ask EMMITT if he was gonna go back into the game, I am sure EMMITT let Jimmy know that there was no way he WASN'T gonna come back that day. As a matter of fact if I remember correctly the sideline reporter said that all EMMITT told his teammates was "just help me up after each play, don't let me stay on the turf. If I am on my feet I can play" or something like that, not an exact quote.

MAN! Would I love to get a copy of that game on DVD. The game when EMMITT went from being a good RB to becoming a LEGEND.:bow:

[big dog cowboy]

the SKins board.......
That is all I needed to read.

[Yakuza Rich]

Barry will always be the most overrated player I've ever seen. He's admitted to over the years that he developed his running style because he hated to get hit. So instead of following the design of the play, he'd scurry away to find the path where he wouldn't get hit. He's by far the all time leader in carries for a loss, and he did it with Pro Bowlers Kevin Glover, Lomas Brown, and Herman Moore on the same offense. Barry's a great tailback if you are willing to have 2nd and 3rd and long situations on a constant basis and a guy that couldn't pass block for a guy that would occasionally come up with the thrilling 75 yard run.

The one thing that no Emmitt hater has yet to make a reasonable reply to is for all of the talk about how great the O-Line was, how did guys like Mark Tuinea.......with the team since 1983 and started out as a defensive end......Nate Newton....with the team since 1986 and was a bench player...and Steve Gogan.....with the team since 1987 and was a bench player....suddenly all of them became great once Emmitt showed up. And while the scouting was strong back in that time, Erik Williams and Stepnoski were merely 3rd round picks.

The O-Line consisted of retreads and never was players. Was it just a coincidence they became great once Emmitt showed up?

Rich.......

[2233boys]

Barry will always be the most overrated player I've ever seen. He's admitted to over the years that he developed his running style because he hated to get hit. So instead of following the design of the play, he'd scurry away to find the path where he wouldn't get hit. He's by far the all time leader in carries for a loss, and he did it with Pro Bowlers Kevin Glover, Lomas Brown, and Herman Moore on the same offense. Barry's a great tailback if you are willing to have 2nd and 3rd and long situations on a constant basis and a guy that couldn't pass block for a guy that would occasionally come up with the thrilling 75 yard run.

The one thing that no Emmitt hater has yet to make a reasonable reply to is for all of the talk about how great the O-Line was, how did guys like Mark Tuinea.......with the team since 1983 and started out as a defensive end......Nate Newton....with the team since 1986 and was a bench player...and Steve Gogan.....with the team since 1987 and was a bench player....suddenly all of them became great once Emmitt showed up. And while the scouting was strong back in that time, Erik Williams and Stepnoski were merely 3rd round picks.

The O-Line consisted of retreads and never was players. Was it just a coincidence they became great once Emmitt showed up?

Rich.......
I have said the same thing for years. Nice post. To be fair I think Nate did make a pro bowl in 89, if it wasn't then it was in 90. If it was 90 you are exactly right on all points. :)

[big dog cowboy]

If Barry was our RB during the '93 Giants game. And seperated his shoulder, I do not see him playing through that pain.
:hammer:

[tyke1doe]

Let's see, who was the better back Emmitt or Barry?

Let's ask posters who frequent the Cowboyszone and love the team that Emmitt played for.

Guys, who do you think was the better back ...?

Why Emmitt of course.

I'm shocked! :eek: :D

[big dog cowboy]

Let's see, who was the better back Emmitt or Barry?

Let's ask posters who frequent the Cowboyszone and love the team that Emmitt played for.
Outside of the CZ I believe Emmitt is still considered better.

[Bizwah]

Let's see, who was the better back Emmitt or Barry?

Let's ask posters who frequent the Cowboyszone and love the team that Emmitt played for.

Guys, who do you think was the better back ...?

Why Emmitt of course.

I'm shocked! :eek: :D

If we don't take up Emmitt's banner, who will?

ESPN?

I know you're just kidding.....but I think it's great we're rallying behind "our guy".

[lspain1]

I'm shocked! :eek: :D

And for some reason the folks over on Extremeskins feel differently! More shock!!:eek: :p:

[jimmy40]

the SKins board has a 13 page debate of EMMIT v. BARRY and since this is all Hypothetical I wanted to add a little twist. You know the rhetoric of those fans, who EMMITT made careers rushing v. their teams. Some respect the POWER some belittle it by saying it was his OLINE...


A redskin fan actually said he would fear BARRY more with those COWBOY teams than he did EMMITT who was I guess a product of the system!!! My first thought was he didnt understand fooball but then I went with it and tried not to dismiss it as lack of knowlege about the NFL but about personalities!!!

Now before we bring up the tired old comparison in this exercise in monotany I wanted to take this fantansy and turn it into reality based on what I know. based on the psyche of BARRY and JIMMY!!!


If BARRY played for the COWBOYS during the same time as EMMITT, what type of player would he have been... IMHO BARRY would have been traded by JIMMY JOHNSON for about 10 or 12 maybe more draft picks and some players going into his contract season... BARRY running style did not fit the man and his VISION let alone the NFC EAST...

BARRY had problems with BOBBY ROSS he loved WAYNE FONTS, why? IF BARRY quit on ROSS he would have tried to quit on JIMMY 2 weeks into TC or forced a trade. BUT JIMMY was too smart for that, if u didnt fit his system u were gone, PERIOD. Big name trades like HERSCHEL and LOCKHART would have been accompanied by BARRY SANDERS!!!!


then ADD into the mix STRONG PERSONALITIES... like IRVIN, AIKMAN, MOOSE, HALEY, Jr. NATE among others, BARRYs bla-se "ah shucks" personality would have not mixed well with a group of guys who despised losing and cared nothing about STATS and ESPN HIGHLIGHTS!!!



other key points that would have expedited the BARRY SANDERS trade, much like the COLTS traded MARSHALL FAULK!!!


1. ALL PRO FB was of no use with BARRYs running style.
2. 3rd and 1 would be nightmares with no QB sneak in the playbook.
3. poor playoff performances time and time again.
4. poor rushing yards on grass and cold weather.
5. lack of catching and blocking ability.
6. NO GOALLINE RB (I'm sorry but I dont see "TOUCHDOWN" TOMMY VARDELL scoring 25 TDs for the COWBOYS of the mid 90s)



so besides the obvious football issues (just a few listed above) BARRYs personality would not have fit in DALLAS so all of u BARRY apologist now that u finnaly realize he is not coming back u can stop with the fantasy of if he PLAYED for JIMMY JOHNSON!!!


Now I guess we can talk about who JIMMY would have traded him to and for what?Why so much discussion over who was the second best running back? Walter was better than either one.

[gbrittain]

Why so much discussion over who was the second best running back? Walter was better than either one.

Blasphemy!

[Doomsday101]

In my opinion Sanders was the better pure runner, Emmitt was the best all around RB. I'll take Emmitt any day of the week.

[dbair1967]

I have said the same thing for years. Nice post. To be fair I think Nate did make a pro bowl in 89, if it wasn't then it was in 90. If it was 90 you are exactly right on all points. :)

no Cowboy made the the probowl in 1989...

one made it in 1990 (Emmitt, and I think he was an add on after an injury)

in 1991 four Cowboys made it...Aikman, Smith, Irvin & Novecek

it wasnt until 1992 that a Cowboy OL made the probowl (Newton & Stepnoski)

Erik Williams made it in 1993 for the first time

by the way no Dallas defensive player made the probowl in 1992...this despite being #1 in total defense & rush defense and winning 13 games plus a super bowl...

David

[dbair1967]

If Barry was our RB during the '93 Giants game. And seperated his shoulder, I do not see him playing through that pain. I picture this happening...

:

somebody go ask Lions probowl LB Chris Spielman who he'd prefer at RB

Spielman called Barry out numerous times for being "feminine" (obviously cleaned up for here)when it came to playing through pain and giving everything he had...

David

[MossBurner]

Both were great and very different runners. It would have been interesting if they played on opposite teams.

[CrazyCowboy]

Emmitt = The Greatest Ever

Debate Over !!!!

I agree--Jim Rhome says scoreboard baby!

[superpunk]

You know it's the offseason when....

[Yeagermeister]

I agree--Jim Rhome says scoreboard baby!
Using Jim Rome to make your case is not a good thing. Depending on which one he's interviewing he'll say they are the greatest. Rome is the worst butt kisser I have ever heard.....we'll except maybe Juke ;)

[NickZepp]

I love Emmitt but I think Barry was better. The guy was amazing to watch.

That being said if you want a RB that will follow your assignments it's Emmitt who is the best ever. I think Barry's Lion OLine's were better then people think he just never followed where the play was supposed to go.

[Chocolate Lab]

Hmm, I've never understood why Cowboys fans put down Barry Sanders. He's one of the best backs who ever lived, and the fact that Emmitt is also one of the greatest doesn't change that fact.

I also don't agree with this notion that Sanders is to blame for a lot of his negative runs. If you saw him at Oklahoma State -- where he rushed for over 2600 yards in one season (!!!) -- he didn't dance nearly as much. There, he hit the holes much more straight-ahead and only juked and dodged when he had to, which was usually in the secondary. Did he just suddenly decide in the pros that he didn't like to run through holes where the play was designed? Or did he not have any holes to run through? A lot of those Detroit teams were really poor teams, and IMO Sanders himself is responsible for some of the Pro Bowl visits made by the linemen in front of him. I'd argue all day that Emmitt had MUCH better and bigger holes created in front of him.

I'd never say Barry was as tough or strong as Emmitt, because I think Emmitt's power was very underrated. Emmitt was also a great competitor who was supremely determined. But I don't agree with the portrayal of Barry as strictly a little scat back who hurt his team because he was afraid of contact or just preferred to freelance. Put him behind Dallas' line with Aikman and Irvin, and I think he'd have had at least as many yards as Emmitt. Maybe not for his career, but during the early-mid 90s on those great teams that contended every year.

[CoCo]

I'm not sure that disciplined runner (Emmitt) vs undisciplined runner (Barry) is a real valid comparison.

It was stated frequently by Madden during games that Jimmy & Emmitt had an agreement whereby Emmitt was not bound by the hole of the particular play call. Rather, he would wait to see what developed before choosing the best path.

No doubt Barry freelanced a bit more, but its not like they were polar opposites in their approaches.

[Juke99]

Using Jim Rome to make your case is not a good thing. Depending on which one he's interviewing he'll say they are the greatest. Rome is the worst butt kisser I have ever heard.....we'll except maybe Juke ;)


Hey...when I find something that works, I stick with it.

BTW, have I mentioned recently how much I respect Reality for his intelligence, good looks, impeccable wardrobe and programming skills?

[2233boys]

I also don't agree with this notion that Sanders is to blame for a lot of his negative runs.
It isn't a notion it is a fact. During their respective careers Barry always had more negative plays than Emmitt. Regardless of what you saw in games at OU.


That Being said, I have no issue with Barry Sanders, was the best pure runner I ever saw play the game. The best running back is Walter Payton.

Barry was the most electric runningback I ever watched, Emmitt the most effective runningback...

[jem88]

BWT, 2002 just called, it wants its thread back.
I have to hand it to you Ravi, you do come up with some gems from time to time.

[stealth]

emmitt was a better footbal player over all, barry was a better ummm well he ran good.

Thanks DISD for my wonderful way with words

[Birdlives]

I'll say the same thing in here as I said in there.

Barry=better runner

Emmitt= Better Running Back

Therefore Emmitt>Barry

[ravidubey]

I have to hand it to you Ravi, you do come up with some gems from time to time.How about that; Jem calling a post a gem.