Al Johnson

[Teague31]

Is it me, or does Al look like his same old 285 pound self in those TC pics? I thought the camera was supposed to add 10 pounds. Can anyone who is there in person comment?

[MichaelWinicki]

Is it me, or does Al look like his same old 285 pound self in those TC pics? I thought the camera was supposed to add 10 pounds. Can anyone who is there in person comment?

I don't see how anyone-- by looking at 72dpi photos could ever tell the exact weight of anyone.

[speedkilz88]

I remember early reports that said he was thicker in the lower body which is where he needed it.

[WoodysGirl]

Was listening to the post-PC feed from dc.com and they discussed this very thing.

Basically said, they didn't see where he added a bunch of pounds of muscle. Looks pretty much the same to them. Apparently, they'd gotten a lot of questions about Johnson and that was their response.

[5Stars]

Was listening to the post-PC feed from dc.com and they discussed this very thing.

Basically said, they didn't see where he added a bunch of pounds of muscle. Looks pretty much the same to them. Apparently, they'd gotten a lot of questions about Johnson and that was their response.

This kind or report just bothers me...

See, it's not how much weight you gain, or how big you are...what counts is where the muscle mass was added. Perhaps he added more to his thighs and shoulders, where it not as reconizable?

You don't have to LOOK big and mean...conditioning through the whole body is what makes someone strong. Chuck Norris could whip all these guys...at the same time! :eek:

Look at the Denver Oline...those guys are not mammoths...!

You can get bigger and stronger without haveing to look real big. Distribution of muscle mass and losing some fat is good...makes you strong! ;)

:star:

[Yakuza Rich]

Maybe Johnson hasn't put on any weight, but a guy like him will put on lean muscle if anything. So you're taking a guy who probably has a low level of body fat and now he's getting even lower in the body fat. Lean muscle gains are somewhat difficult to distinguish with the human eye.

I don't know what reason Dallas would have to lie about Johnson's weigh ins in the mini camps, so if they tell me he gained muscle I believe him.


Rich......

[WilmingtonHeel]

Ditto

[InmanRoshi]

I think Al Johnson's weight, or lack thereof, might be the most overrated topic concerning the Cowboys. There have been a lot of centers that have excelled at the position a lot smaller than 6'5" 295.

The official heights and weights of the centers who played in the Pro Bowl last February...

Jeff Saturday 6'2" 295
Jeff Hartings 6'3" 299
Jeff Tobeck 6'4" 297
Olin Kreutz 6'2' 292

Only Bentley fits the mold of the 315+ mauler guy.

By and large its a position that requires quickness, technique and savvy. All of the guys listed above have played 8-13 years in the NFL. Throw out his rookie year when he was injured, and Al Johnson has played 2. He just needs to continue to improve on his technique and strength and continue to grow as a player.

[burmafrd]

Some guys can do it at less then 300 lbs. Some need to weigh that much to do it. Johnson dropped down to 285 by late last season and that is too light to do the job. He needs to get the weight and keep the weight.

[renny]

Maybe his name should be Jeff Johnson

[InmanRoshi]

Some guys can do it at less then 300 lbs. Some need to weigh that much to do it. Johnson dropped down to 285 by late last season and that is too light to do the job. He needs to get the weight and keep the weight.

Looking at NFL rosters, its seems the vast majority do it at less than 300 lbs. You think Jeff Saturday is pushing Jamall Williams backwards with brute strength? No, he's using techinque and quickness to play the leverage game to his advantage. Whether Johnson can do the same will determine whether he becomes an elite NFL center much more than whether he weighs 310.

[WoodysGirl]

Looking at NFL rosters, its seems the vast majority do it at less than 300 lbs. You think Jeff Saturday is pushing Jamall Williams backwards with brute strength? No, he's using techinque and quickness to play the leverage game to his advantage. Whether Johnson can do the same will determine whether he becomes an elite NFL center much more than whether he weighs 310.That was part of their discussion as well. They didn't spend too much discussing his weight. They spent more time discussing some of the things you guys said about technique.

Used the Stepnoski analogy and then discussed the difference between Al and Step. Basically said Step was shorter so that was also an advantage for him. Mentioned because Al was 6'5" he may have a harder time gaining leverage and getting under guys.

It was an interesting discussion if anyone wants to check out the replay on dc.com.

[FrankBullitt]

Mark Stepnoski? He was certainly under-sized but still had a long, winning Pro Bowl career while representing the Dallas Cowboys.

[Cbz40]

Mark Stepnoski was 6'2" and his playing weight was around 265lbs..As IR expressed it is about technique and leverage. Mark was one of the best at doing so.

[Crown Royal]

Interior lineman at 6'5" is actually a tough size, considering your average DT/NT is usually not over 6'5". If the guy you are going up against is shorter than you, he has a good chance of beating you on leverage.

That is actually where the pitfall with Al Johnson is - he is tall and relatively light, so he loses the leverage battle and then doesn't weigh so much as to keep the DT from using that to his advantage. If Johnson was heavier, then the leverage issue would even out a bit.

I don't see Johnson ever being better than OK. I just don't see him as a great center. And that isn't based on just build, something about his play/technique has never really rubbed me quite the right way.

[Big Dakota]

If muscle and raw strength were the key, power lifters and body builders would be NFL Olinemen. You still have to know how to block. That's why "sleepy"(Bills words) players with little athletic ability like Fabini can play for a decade. It's a technical possition and Al, no matter how much added weight and strength, had better improve his technique.

[InmanRoshi]

I think he's way underappreciated by Cowboy fans who have very little perspective or patience. If we go by Landry's 3 year rule, Johnson is just entering his 3rd year and already has 31 career starts under his belt. Because its such a technique intensive position that requires a lot of smarts to make line calls, most centers need a couple of years of development before they're even ready to start competing for playing time. If the Cowboys released him today, there would be a long line of teams standing in line to aquire him and he would have a very long, productive career for one of them.

[MichaelWinicki]

Interior lineman at 6'5" is actually a tough size, considering your average DT/NT is usually not over 6'5". If the guy you are going up against is shorter than you, he has a good chance of beating you on leverage.

That is actually where the pitfall with Al Johnson is - he is tall and relatively light, so he loses the leverage battle and then doesn't weigh so much as to keep the DT from using that to his advantage. If Johnson was heavier, then the leverage issue would even out a bit.

I don't see Johnson ever being better than OK. I just don't see him as a great center. And that isn't based on just build, something about his play/technique has never really rubbed me quite the right way.


Granted a shorter center can have some leverage advantages... and I mean some.

A taller leaner man can have some advantages also. If they know how to use their longer arms they can hold a shorter man at bay... I've watched enough wrestling to know that many times a good good big man can beat a good little man by using his superior height and longer arms.

Johnson needs to find his "own way"... how to use to use his advantages of height, arm length and quickness. I'm also betting that he has superior endurance.

[MichaelWinicki]

If muscle and raw strength were the key, power lifters and body builders would be NFL Olinemen. You still have to know how to block. That's why "sleepy"(Bills words) players with little athletic ability like Fabini can play for a decade. It's a technical position and Al, no matter how much added weight and strength, had better improve his technique.


Well said and very true.

Personally I'd like to see this become more of a league of taller leaner players.

[Big Dakota]

I think he's way underappreciated by Cowboy fans who have very little perspective or patience. If we go by Landry's 3 year rule, Johnson is just entering his 3rd year and already has 32 starts under his belt. If the Cowboys released him today, there would be a long line of teams standing in line to aquire him and he would probably have a very good career for one of them.


Plus, the knee was damaged and degenerating and needed to be fixed. I think it's taken him a long time to get back where he was in college. Mick touched on it a while back and mentioned how bad that knee really was.

[Billy Bullocks]

I remember early reports that said he was thicker in the lower body which is where he needed it.

Thank you. Everyone is so hung up on Bench numbers. Sure that helps. But you get alot more drive and push, which you need for blocking, from your legs

[Vertigo_17]

I think he's way underappreciated by Cowboy fans who have very little perspective or patience. If we go by Landry's 3 year rule, Johnson is just entering his 3rd year and already has 31 career starts under his belt. Because its such a technique intensive position that requires a lot of smarts to make line calls, most centers need a couple of years of development before they're even ready to start competing for playing time. If the Cowboys released him today, there would be a long line of teams standing in line to aquire him and he would have a very long, productive career for one of them.

No one has ever questioned his mental aspect or ability to make the calls at the line. While many are quick to make the comparison to Step...I don't see it yet. I hope he does improve in his true 3rd year cause he cannot continue to get pushed back off the ball if we want to be successful on offense. Also, cross your fingers as it appears he's stopped tipping off the snap count that was a problem for us in the past.

You may feel he's underappreciated - but IMO he's the weak link on the OL and mostly due to his size. With DT getting bigger and bigger, the game has changed and you need size and not just smarts in the middle.

Gurode doesn't make me feel much better unless he's had a brain transplant.

[Fla Cowpoke]

In the pic that came out the first day of TC, with Bledsoe lined up behind him, it appeared that AJ's calves were huge. So maybe the majority of the gains were lower body.

[Crown Royal]

Well said and very true.

Personally I'd like to see this become more of a league of taller leaner players.

I don't care about the height so much, but I definitely think the NFL needs to trim down. These mauler OL are ok, but I have always been a fan of the quick, finesse OL. I don't take fat players.

[Cogan]

I thought from one of the TC pics with DB taking snaps, Johnson's legs looked huge. Dude has large calves & a wide base, from what I saw. The 12 lbs. he gained over the off season went somewhere, & it looks to me like most of it went to his legs. He is bigger than Nick Mangold, and he manhandled every NT he went up against at the Senior Bowl with great technique & strong hands.
I think this is the year Johnson takes the job. He is just as sound as Mangold in his form & technique, and he is intelligent-a must for a quality center. According to the roster, he is up to 315. That is a good weight for him, or any good center.

[Bob Sacamano]

I thought from one of the TC pics with DB taking snaps, Johnson's legs looked huge. Dude has large calves & a wide base, from what I saw. The 12 lbs. he gained over the off season went somewhere, & it looks to me like most of it went to his legs.

and he needed it to go there since most DTs he'll go up against are short and compact

[InmanRoshi]

You may feel he's underappreciated - but IMO he's the weak link on the OL and mostly due to his size. With DT getting bigger and bigger, the game has changed and you need size and not just smarts in the middle.


Despite your claims, Mikey is right (that made me feel dirty) the league's linemen getting leaner and taller, especially with so many teams using the Alex Gibbs philosophy of line blocking. The days of power running are coming to an end, and now teams are running stretch plays with cut back runners looking for a crease. Eric Steinbach at 6'6" 290 is now the prototype interior lineman, and the days of 6'1" 360 Nate Newtons of the NFL have passed. D'Brickshaw Ferguson was just drafted with a top 5 draft pick at 6'5" 295 (the same exact size as Al Johnson), whereas to be a Top 10 draft pick OL 5 years ago you had to be in the Orlando Pace/Jonathon Ogden behemouth style.

You can claim the game has changed all you want, but the truth of the matter is there are very few starting centers in the NFL who weigh 305+ (including every starting center in this division). Most weigh under 300.

[DLCassidy]

I think the weight is important. I hope he is 310 or thereabouts. All other things being equal that extra lower body weight should help Al a lot. I think his technique is already pretty good.

[Vertigo_17]

Inman

I make no claims - just stating my opinion which is what this board is about. Don't think for a minute that it's anthing more than that. In the past one of Al's biggest problems is that he's pushed back off the ball and that concerns me on the OL. The other was giving away the snapcount. Intrepret that how you want, I'm sure you see it differently. I agree that some teams have succeeded with the finese OL schemes like Denver, but they are also more teams moving the 3-4 which despite your spin, features huge NT's that will line up over center. If what BP says is true, he still wants to play a hard-nose, pound the ball up the middle gameplan.

If he's bulked up and has gained more lower body strength, that will help with leverage. I'm optimistic, but still skeptical until I see otherwise.

[ThreeSportStar80]

On dallascowboys.com Derek Eagleton made an interesting comment about how Johnson is looking thus far in camp basically saying he's getting blown back off the ball and Andre Gurode is holding is own.

[big dog cowboy]

Preseason starts soon and we will all get a chance to see the new and improved Al "you don't have to call me" Johnson with our own eyes.

[InmanRoshi]

Again, you're free to your opinion, but the reality is that there are very few centers in the NFL that weigh over 305. No matter how differently people imagine otherwise. If he gets pushed backwards, it has more to do with a technique problem than a weight problem. Despite some people's reports to the contrary, I doubt an offensive lineman is flawless technique wise after his second complete season in the league.

And for every team moving to the 3-4, there are just as many moving to the Tampa model of putting 4 penetrators on the line and having them shooting gaps and working up field. And even the 3-4 teams take the noseguard off the field 50% of the time.

[Vertigo_17]

To me, more important is that we're not letting the pressure come up the middle and maybe I'm wrong in wishing he had more weight to help "anchor" the middle of the line. If there's someone who's smaller (when is under 300lbs considered small :)) - then bring 'em in. But for now, we've got Al or Gurode fighting it out and neither one of them make me comfortable.

No doom or gloom cause it's early in camp - hopefully we will see some serious improvement.

[AbeBeta]

To me, more important is that we're not letting the pressure come up the middle and maybe I'm wrong in wishing he had more weight to help "anchor" the middle of the line. If there's someone who's smaller (when is under 300lbs considered small :)) - then bring 'em in. But for now, we've got Al or Gurode fighting it out and neither one of them make me comfortable.

If it is Al vs. Gurode. Al will win easily.

Johnson may get overpowered at times, but he doesn't make the kind of mistakes that let players come in clean and force fumbles. Gurode simply doesn't think fast enough to make line calls. He's a backup -- but if he started and teams were developing game plans expecting him to start? ouch.

[burmafrd]

It suprises me that since he started all of 2004, and then 2005, that only NOW is he adding weight. Being 6'5" Al is at a disadvantage compared to most centers who are shorter. Leverage is critical with blocking down on smaller D linemen - but strength is a big factor as well. I am thinking that Al at 285, which is where he ended last season, needs the extra weight to fight the battles. This excuse about him needing more time because of the injury is wearing very thin. He was lifting weights and working out fully by the spring of 2004. 2 YEARS AGO. If he cannot do it now he never will.

[CrazyCowboy]

I sure hope he plays bigger then last year!

[Charles]

I think Al Johnson's weight, or lack thereof, might be the most overrated topic concerning the Cowboys. There have been a lot of centers that have excelled at the position a lot smaller than 6'5" 295.

The official heights and weights of the centers who played in the Pro Bowl last February...

Jeff Saturday 6'2" 295
Jeff Hartings 6'3" 299
Jeff Tobeck 6'4" 297
Olin Kreutz 6'2' 292

Only Bentley fits the mold of the 315+ mauler guy.

By and large its a position that requires quickness, technique and savvy. All of the guys listed above have played 8-13 years in the NFL. Throw out his rookie year when he was injured, and Al Johnson has played 2. He just needs to continue to improve on his technique and strength and continue to grow as a player.
:hammer: I agree. Al Johnson's weight is an overratted topic.

Parcells has stated that he's been healthy since last off-season. He called the rookie issue a non issue.

I am just happy that the weight "excuse" can't fly after this training camp. We'll definately find out about his talent level barring any injuries.

Drew Bledsoe is nothing if an opposing team gets pressure up the middle.

[sago1]

All I know is tht we've had it from 2 different sources that Johnson is often being pushed back off the line whereas Gurode is more often holding his own. Cowboys now entering 3rd day of TC so things should began to settle down and we may begin to see patterns develop. If so, we will learn a lot more from next Saturday's scrimmage (anybody know who we scrimmaging or is it intra-squad?) But if we continue to hear little improvement in Johnson's play, then we should be concerned unless Gurode (has significantly less play at center compared with Johnson's whole career at center) begins to grasp the mental aspects of this position. I sure hope in the offseason he spent a lot of time studying film of himself playing center (and understanding his mistakes) and also those of other centers to see why they made the calls they did at the time they did. That's what Gurode needs to improve on--not so much his physical play.

[adbutcher]

Al is pretty tall for a center. Most defensive linemen hate shorter wide bodies with quick feet. Tall interior lineman are easier to deal with, imo because the leverage game starts in neutral. Those squaty bodies starts with an advantage coming out of their stance and once they get their hands on the inside you are usually done. Taller interior lineman have to fight playing high which leads to getting put on skates. I hope Al does better this year with staying low because when he got beat he was usally high after the snap of the ball.

[JackMagist]

I will need to get a look at how Al is playing to form an opinion of where he is at in his development. Last year he was getting blown off the line and pushed back into Bledsoe's face. I felt then that he needed more lower body strength and it appears that the coaches had the same opinion since that seems to be where he gained the extra 15-20 pounds. But now he has that extra weight and according to camp reports I've read is still getting blown off the ball. I don't know what his problem is now since I haven't seen him play but if he keeps getting blown up then we need a new Center...that's the bottom line.

[Yeagermeister]

Maybe Parcells needs to call Stepnoski in to show Al how to play with leverage.....if that's possible to teach.

[adbutcher]

Maybe Parcells needs to call Stepnoski in to show Al how to play with leverage.....if that's possible to teach.
You can teach leverage but those with the physical deposition will always be better then those that have to be taught, imo.

If you have ever played against a shorter, wider guy with good agility and lateral movement it is a pain in the arse.