Overrated Cowboy Players

[Apollo Creed]

Considering the majority of us in here are die hard fans, it's pretty difficult to call one of our boys overrated. So I'm making this thread to see what players that get constant praise, but in your eyes are average at best.

For example, I've been saying for years that Keyshawn Johnson is a terribly overrated player. Everyone rants and raves about his blocking, but his lack of speed outweighed his 'great' downfield blocking. Key was never a threat outside of the redzone, and talks to the media like he's putting up T.O. or Moss numbers.

Honorable Mention: Larry Allen

So who do you guys think, past or present, is an overrated Cowboy?

[EMMITTnROY]

First off, I still think that Keyshawn was underrated as a Cowboy.. he MIGHT be overrated in regards to his entire career and he might overrate himself, but as a Cowboy he never really got that many props.. he played hard, was consistent, made lots of tough catches, was classy as could be, and did all the little things..

and calling Larry Allen overrated is absurd.. maybe his last couple years, but not over the course of his career.. he is one of the greatest of all-time..

lastly, if anyone answers Roy Williams, I'm gonna get angry.. you won't like me when I'm angry..

[Doomsday101]

I hate to say it but Qunicy Carter, to this day we still get those who want to tell us how great the guy is.

[wesleyc288]

if i had to name one over-rated player on our current team it would be Marco Rivera....im only judging from what he did last year with the Cowboys

[jcblanco22]

It might seem absurd given the amount of success that Emmitt Smith enjoyed in the 90s, but I always was a bit suspect of the level to which Tunei, Newton, and Gogan appeared to raise their games once #22 hit town.

These guys were marginal at best under Landry and Jim Erkenbeck, who was a very good O-line coach, and they didn't set the world on fire in '89 either. Suddenly they were perrenial All-Pros for a while there, and yet these were players who had already been in the league a few seasons by 1990 (when Emmitt got drafted), so it wasn't as if they were making that "big jump" from Year 1 to Year 2 or anything like that.

Again, to be clear, I am not calling the offensive line of that era overrated as a unit, I am just referring to these 3 guys on an individual level. They certainly were above-average, but I don't know how well they would have done with a lesser back and lesser o-line teammates.

[dargonking999]

Thats a little broad in terms of right now overrated i'd have to go with hmmm probably Dextar coakley :D:D:D:D

relly i dont think there's nay overrated players on our team right, now i think most of them are good, and we've become so cautious now in give plaers creditits hard to for us to overrate them

[silver]

Considering the Madden ratings: Greg Ellis would be one.

[MC KAos]

i think you have a good point jcblanco22, the most overrated thing in cowboys history was probably that "amazing" oline the cowboys had in the early 90s. I mean, how many of them will be hall of famers or even ring of honor inductees?!?!?!?! and LA was only there in 95, not b4. In the same note emmitt is underrated IMO because of the overrated line

[ravidubey]

Mark Stepnoski was hugely overrated. The guy could get bullrushed by anyone. We lost him for the Superbowl and flat out dominated anyway. When he returned in the late 90's, he looked good only because the guy he was replacing was Clay freaking Shiver.

Charlie Waters (I know this will drive some old-schoolers crazy). He helped his defensive teammates prepare and plan and was loved by all, but when the rubber hit the road he was just a standard NFL safety, not the Godsend that everyone dotes on. When he was injured, our secondary was not as seriously affected as I knew it would not be.

Everson Walls. The guy was a ballhawk supreme, but he'd give up too many big plays in between his own big plays. I think he was ideally suited to be a free safety (the position he played for Parcell's Superbowl winners in 1990), but as a CB he was not consistent enough.

Ken Norton Jr. This guy made one play as a Cowboy. One. Stopping Kenneth Davis on the goalline in the Superbowl. Beyond this he was so over-hyped mainly because he was a 2nd round pick, very outspoken, and the son of a famous boxer. He could barely hang onto a starting job and made way too many tackles downfield.

[Chief]

Bill Bates, a fan favorite, the blue-collar overachiever, etc., was a good special teams player, but that's about it, IMO.

[ravidubey]

Again, to be clear, I am not calling the offensive line of that era overrated as a unit, I am just referring to these 3 guys on an individual level. They certainly were above-average, but I don't know how well they would have done with a lesser back and lesser o-line teammates.

I really enjoyed this insight. Thanks!

[Chief]

Mark Stepnoski was hugely overrated. The guy could get bullrushed by anyone. We lost him for the Superbowl and flat out dominated anyway. When he returned in the late 90's, he looked good only because the guy he was replacing was Clay freaking Shiver.

Charlie Waters (I know this will drive some old-schoolers crazy). He helped his defensive teammates prepare and plan and was loved by all, but when the rubber hit the road he was just a standard NFL safety, not the Godsend that everyone dotes on. When he was injured, our secondary was not as seriously affected as I knew it would not be.

Everson Walls. The guy was a ballhawk supreme, but he'd give up too many big plays in between his own big plays. I think he was ideally suited to be a free safety (the position he played for Parcell's Superbowl winners in 1990), but as a CB he was not consistent enough.

Ken Norton Jr. This guy made one play as a Cowboy. One. Stopping Kenneth Davis on the goalline in the Superbowl. Beyond this he was so over-hyped mainly because he was a 2nd round pick, very outspoken, and the son of a famous boxer. He could barely hang onto a starting job and made way too many tackles downfield.

Very good choices, with compelling arguments.

[EMMITTnROY]

It might seem absurd given the amount of success that Emmitt Smith enjoyed in the 90s, but I always was a bit suspect of the level to which Tunei, Newton, and Gogan appeared to raise their games once #22 hit town.

These guys were marginal at best under Landry and Jim Erkenbeck, who was a very good O-line coach, and they didn't set the world on fire in '89 either. Suddenly they were perrenial All-Pros for a while there, and yet these were players who had already been in the league a few seasons by 1990 (when Emmitt got drafted), so it wasn't as if they were making that "big jump" from Year 1 to Year 2 or anything like that.

Again, to be clear, I am not calling the offensive line of that era overrated as a unit, I am just referring to these 3 guys on an individual level. They certainly were above-average, but I don't know how well they would have done with a lesser back and lesser o-line teammates.
I actually agree with this completely..

Nate Newton even said himself that before Emmitt showed up, they were all just a bunch of fat guys but after Emmitt showedup, they were All-Pros.. it was his way of saying that Emmitt made them look really good..

Jimmy Johnson has even come out and said that the O-Line gets way too much credit for Emmitt's success and that Emmitt made them look a lot better..

I wish people would get it in their heads that Emmitt was a very very special back.. He really made it look too easy and people took it for granted.. There is a reason that the Cowboys could never win a game without him in the 90s.. they won without Aikman and they won without Irvin, but they could never win without Emmitt.. the offense was completely different when Emmitt wasn't in there.. I'm not taking anything away from all these other guys, I'm just saying that Emmitt was very very special..

[ABQCOWBOY]

First off, I still think that Keyshawn was underrated as a Cowboy.. he MIGHT be overrated in regards to his entire career and he might overrate himself, but as a Cowboy he never really got that many props.. he played hard, was consistent, made lots of tough catches, was classy as could be, and did all the little things..

and calling Larry Allen overrated is absurd.. maybe his last couple years, but not over the course of his career.. he is one of the greatest of all-time..

lastly, if anyone answers Roy Williams, I'm gonna get angry.. you won't like me when I'm angry..

Roy Williams.

;)

[EMMITTnROY]

Roy Williams.

;)
alright, you did it.. I told you that you wouldn't like it when I get angry!!

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Lou-Ferrigno---The-Incredible-Hulk-Photograph-C10052499.jpeg

[ravidubey]

I wish people would get it in their heads that Emmitt was a very very special back.. He really made it look too easy and people took it for granted.. There is a reason that the Cowboys could never win a game without him in the 90s.. they won without Aikman and they won without Irvin, but they could never win without Emmitt.. the offense was completely different when Emmitt wasn't in there.. I'm not taking anything away from all these other guys, I'm just saying that Emmitt was very very special..

So damned true. Herschel Walker, himself an amazing running back, had trouble finding any consistency running behind Newton, Gogan, and Tuinei. Granted Big E made a serious difference, but Emmitt was dominating before Big E arrived and well before he started.

Emmitt had so many moves you'd just take them for granted. It was like having a scatback, a pass blocker, a breakaway threat, a grind-it-out power runner, and a goal line back all in one body. He was the best, and the haters just don't get it.

[ABQCOWBOY]

alright, you did it.. I told you that you wouldn't like it when I get angry!!

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Lou-Ferrigno---The-Incredible-Hulk-Photograph-C10052499.jpeg


LOL....

Just yanking your chain. I don't worship the ground Roy walks on and I don't believe that RLW is the best safety in the league but I do like his game, when he is allowed to play it. I like RLW even if he was a Sooner.

[AdamJT13]

if i had to name one over-rated player on our current team it would be Marco Rivera....im only judging from what he did last year with the Cowboys

Exactly who ever said Rivera was anything special last season?

It's widely recognized that Rivera was injured and mediocre -- at best -- last season. Are you saying he was even worse than that?

[NinePointOh]

Overrated? I looked over the current roster and was hard-pressed to find a single player half the fans and/or media don't complain about.

QB: "Bledsoe's slow, old, and throws too many picks. Romo and Henson are scrubs. We need a real QB."
RB: "Julius doesn't get through the hole quick enough, and he's always injured. We should have drafted Stephen Jackson when we had the chance."
WR: "TO's a cancer and both Owens and Glenn are too old to run onto the field. The Eagles and 49ers are laughing their butts off at Owens' nice guy act, because we all know it's a given that he WILL destroy the Dallas Cowboys."
TE: "Fasano? What a wasted pick! Why do we need another TE when we signed Hannam? Hannam? How is he supposed to fill Dan Campbell's shoes?"
OL: "Every o-line position is a question mark. This is easily the worst line in the NFL. Why didn't we sign Wahle instead of Rivera? If we pick up the phone when Lincoln Kennedy calls, it must mean our linemen are worthless."
DL: "Ellis is a cancer who needs to shut up and doesn't fit in this system. Spears can't stay healthy. Ferguson is old, overpaid, and will never be as good as Glover."
LB: "Singleton's worthless and always out of position. Shawne Merriman made the Pro Bowl -- we should have taken him over Ware. Carpenter was a reach and is injury prone. We should have taken Lawson instead."
CB: "Glenn is small and always gets burned. Henry got injured and nearly ruined our season. Why didn't we sign Ken Lucas or Fred Smoot?"
S: "Keith Davis is the worst player in the history of the NFL. He deserved to get shot repeatedly. Roy Williams is fat, slow, and covers less than Lil Kim's wardrobe."
ST: "Vanderjagt is a loudmouth idiot who's missed half his kicks in TC and flat-out can't kickoff."
Coaching staff: "Parcells has never won without Belichick. He's a jerk, a control freak, and he's holding our youngsters back with his own bloated ego. And he has breasts. The fact that Tony Sparano got promoted is a mistake of Neville Chamberlain-like proportions. Zimmer is too conservative and should have been fired long ago. Please let some other team be stupid enough to hire him as a head coach! Why didn't we sign Al Saunders and Gregg Williams like the Redskins did?"


These are really the only guys I could name that I don't hear many complaints about:

-Marion Barber
-Patrick Crayton
-Jason Witten
-Terence Newman

Witten and Newman were statistically at or near the top of the league in efficiency and production at their positions, so I could hardly call them overrated. Barber exceeded expectations, and the praise for him is fairly guarded.

So I guess, by default, I'm going with Patrick Crayton. Some folks consider him a capable #1 or #2 starter. He has shown some ability ... but the amount of praise he receives is probably over the top for a guy with 500 career yards.

[Apollo Creed]

First off, I still think that Keyshawn was underrated as a Cowboy.. he MIGHT be overrated in regards to his entire career and he might overrate himself, but as a Cowboy he never really got that many props.. he played hard, was consistent, made lots of tough catches, was classy as could be, and did all the little things..

and calling Larry Allen overrated is absurd.. maybe his last couple years, but not over the course of his career.. he is one of the greatest of all-time..

lastly, if anyone answers Roy Williams, I'm gonna get angry.. you won't like me when I'm angry..

He limited our offense, and gave defenses an opportunity to focus on Terry Glenn. He yelled in Bledsoe's face on the sideline after Bledsoe calmly asked him not to fumble the damn ball.

So as far as receiving production and class, I'm gonna have to scratch my head on that. Lets not forget how much he was getting paid to be a move the chains kinda guy.

[ABQCOWBOY]

He limited our offense, and gave defenses an opportunity to focus on Terry Glenn. He yelled in Bledsoe's face on the sideline after Bledsoe calmly asked him not to fumble the damn ball.

So as far as receiving production and class, I'm gonna have to scratch my head on that. Lets not forget how much he was getting paid to be a move the chains kinda guy.

I too believe he was under rated. He was never brought here to be the home run guy. He was paid to make the tough catches and that's what he did, consistantly.

As for the getting in the face thing, remember that he did not instigate that. I think it's a bit unfair to paint him as the villan in that situation.

[Doomsday101]

He limited our offense, and gave defenses an opportunity to focus on Terry Glenn. He yelled in Bledsoe's face on the sideline after Bledsoe calmly asked him not to fumble the damn ball.

So as far as receiving production and class, I'm gonna have to scratch my head on that. Lets not forget how much he was getting paid to be a move the chains kinda guy.

Some of us looked at Key for what he was a top notch possession WR and he lived up to that reputation making the hard catches and taking the big hit and still holding on to the ball. If I looked at Key as some speed WR who was going to out run the secondary then I would have been disappointed. To say he was over rated it really is one person perspective based on expectations. He lived up to my expectation so I could not sit here and say he was over rated.

[Mash]

Anyone who was drafted close to or above Quincy Carter and didn't accomplish as much are all overrated because they deserve the same or more
critizism then Carter got.......but we never hear it......I wonder if Henson gets trashed like Carter when he finally gets released.....

Most underrated.......Quincy Carter.

He lead this team to the playoffs with a terriable offence......If only we could see Drew Bleadsoe play behind that god forsaken offensive line and those pathetic skilled players like Hambrick.

Most overrated.....the likes of Drew Henson....Al Johnson....Peterman....etc

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh1: :laugh1:

:eek: :eek:

[Apollo Creed]

Does anyone know Key's base salary when he signed? Didn't he get 5 years 25 mil or something like that?

[Doomsday101]

Anyone who was drafted close to or above Quincy Carter and didn't accomplish as much are all overrated because they deserve the same or more
critizism then Carter got.......but we never hear it......I wonder if Henson gets trashed like Carter when he finally gets released.....

Most underrated.......Quincy Carter.

He lead this team to the playoffs with a terriable offence......If only we could see Drew Bleadsoe play behind that god forsaken offensive line and those pathetic skilled players like Hambrick.

Most overrated.....the likes of Drew Henson....Al Johnson....Peterman....etc

this is why I find him over rated. He put up shatty numbers and yet some want to give credit for leading the team to the playoffs? Sorry playing poor ball is not leading anything and he did nothing to make the offense better he was just as much of the offensive problems. As far as Henson if he does not make it then yes you could say he was a bust and over rated and any other negitive you want to throw out there. I know one thing I will not be talking about Henson 2 years after getting released.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Anyone who was drafted close to or above Quincy Carter and didn't accomplish as much are all overrated because they deserve the same or more
critizism then Carter got.......but we never hear it......I wonder if Henson gets trashed like Carter when he finally gets released.....

Most underrated.......Quincy Carter.

He lead this team to the playoffs with a terriable offence......If only we could see Drew Bleadsoe play behind that god forsaken offensive line and those pathetic skilled players like Hambrick.

Most overrated.....the likes of Drew Henson....Al Johnson....Peterman....etc

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh1: :laugh1:

:eek: :eek:

I continue to be amazed. A thread not really even about QBs and Carter makes his appearance. This is simply astounding to me.

[Apollo Creed]

this is why I find him over rated. He put up shatty numbers and yet some want to give credit for leading the team to the playoffs? Sorry playing poor ball is not leading anything and he did nothing to make the offense better he was just as much of the offensive problems. As far as Henson if he does not make it then yes you could say he was a bust and over rated and any other negitive you want to throw out there. I know one thing I will not be talking about Henson 2 years after getting released.

With a better decision making QB in 2003 we would've won at least 12 games, and made a better run in the playoffs. I don't want to bring this old argument up, but QC was a solid athlete with loads of potential. But he really made poor decisions, threw a lot of telegraphed balls, and I never really felt comfortable when he dropped back. So in regard to him carrying us to the playoffs, I'd have to give that nod to the defense.

[QT]

Danny Noonan, Shante Carver, and a bunch of other #1 bust were over-rated before we drafted them. Does that count?

[baj1dallas]

Around here the most overrated are the Pat Watkins and Bobby Carpenter types that get drafted and overhyped and then end up only being mediocre players. Not that those two are going to be mediocre, just that every draft pick is always regarded as genious.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Danny Noonan, Shante Carver, and a bunch of other #1 bust were over-rated before we drafted them. Does that count?

Russell Maryland was over rated but then again, it wasn't his fault we took him number one over all either.

[Doomsday101]

With a better decision making QB in 2003 we would've won at least 12 games, and made a better run in the playoffs. I don't want to bring this old argument up, but QC was a solid athlete with loads of potential. But he really made poor decisions, threw a lot of telegraphed balls, and I never really felt comfortable when he dropped back. So in regard to him carrying us to the playoffs, I'd have to give that nod to the defense.

I learned a long time ago potential does not mean anything you either do the job or you don't. All potential does is gives you more of an opportunity to prove yourself. Only reason I made mention (sorry I did) was because he is the only player I can think of who played like **** and yet has this following by some fans and this attitude of he lead this team

[QT]

True Russell was overrated, but remember, the Cowboys traded up that year so they could have a chance to get Rocket Ismail. Then he decided to go to the CFL. The Cowboys just settled for Maryland. He had a decent career but not a #1 overall pick like career.

[Mash]

I learned a long time ago potential does not mean anything you either do the job or you don't. All potential does is gives you more of an opportunity to prove yourself. Only reason I made mention (sorry I did) was because he is the only player I can think of who played like **** and yet has this following by some fans and this attitude of he lead this team


Hey.....this is just why I think he is underrated....or not appreciated more. statements like that....."he is the only player I cant think of who played like ****

Carter did play like crap sometimes.....but sometimes he did play pretty well....all with a horrid offence. How many times have we heard this year how Bledsoe would of played better if Flo didnt get hurt.....yet Carter played like **** not because he was running for his life.....Not because he had the worst RB in football....or a OL that could of gone down as one of the worst the cowboys ever fielded....but because he just plain out sucked........Im just trying to be consistent in judging playes.....Carter didn't have a great supporting offensive cast......yet.....he sucked......and yes he did sometimes.....

Carter at least started in the NFL.....there has been alot of players who have been drafted higher.....or had more Money invested in them and they never seen the field as a Cowbly......yet they go unnoticed......not critized....nothing.

So I will put it better.....Carter is the most under appreciated :)

[kTXe]

Anthony Henry.

Don't get me wrong. I love his game and think he is a great complement to Newman. I also think that he is one of the better #2 corners in the game.

However, people all over the place were calling him our defensive MVP and saying he was the best CB on the team before he got hurt. Sorry Anthony, but you ain't 1/2 the CB TNew is. Period. Henry was a playmaker because the guy on the other side of the field a) shut his man down and never had the ball thrown his way and b) allowed us to roll our coverage to Henry's side which gave him the security blanket to take risks.

[ghost]

First off, I still think that Keyshawn was underrated as a Cowboy.. he MIGHT be overrated in regards to his entire career and he might overrate himself, but as a Cowboy he never really got that many props.. he played hard, was consistent, made lots of tough catches, was classy as could be, and did all the little things..

and calling Larry Allen overrated is absurd.. maybe his last couple years, but not over the course of his career.. he is one of the greatest of all-time..

lastly, if anyone answers Roy Williams, I'm gonna get angry.. you won't like me when I'm angry..

Roy Williams...






Is a good safety :o:

[ravidubey]

Russell Maryland was over rated but then again, it wasn't his fault we took him number one over all either.

Good call. Hugely overrated player. I was bitter when we drafted him but then the top of that draft was as weak as they come. How he ever started over Leon Lett for any length of time I'll never know. Not only was he average, his feet were always banged up.

I recall one specialy play from this guy, the first play of the first defensive series of the 1992 NFC Championship game when SF went deep to Jerry Rice to take advantage of Kevin Smith getting hurt on the opening kickoff coverage. Young threw a perfect deep post strike complete to Rice who had fried Ike Holt on the play and it would have been a TD had it not been for the OL being called for holding Maryland who had crashed through the middle and gotten in Young's face. Had he not been held Maryland would have probably sacked Young.

[ghost]

True Russell was overrated, but remember, the Cowboys traded up that year so they could have a chance to get Rocket Ismail. Then he decided to go to the CFL. The Cowboys just settled for Maryland. He had a decent career but not a #1 overall pick like career.

Heh, sorry, but can someone tell me the whole story on this? I think i was too young to know. I just want to know what happened.

[ravidubey]

Anthony Henry.

Don't get me wrong. I love his game and think he is a great complement to Newman. I also think that he is one of the better #2 corners in the game.

However, people all over the place were calling him our defensive MVP and saying he was the best CB on the team before he got hurt. Sorry Anthony, but you ain't 1/2 the CB TNew is. Period. Henry was a playmaker because the guy on the other side of the field a) shut his man down and never had the ball thrown his way and b) allowed us to roll our coverage to Henry's side which gave him the security blanket to take risks.

Not Henry's fault, but :hammer:

[Apollo Creed]

I really placed Henry on a pedestal last year, and really expected a lot out of him after the first half. But the 49ers game kind of exposed him.

[ravidubey]

Heh, sorry, but can someone tell me the whole story on this? I think i was too young to know. I just want to know what happened.
In 1991 Dallas traded one of their first round picks and their second round pick for New England's first pick overall with hopes of drafting Rocket Ismail. Rocket instead opted for a deal with the CFL and left the Cowboys high and dry with no one to pick. This was one of the weakest top tens in any draft I have ever seen. The likes of Bruce Pickens, Mike Croel, Todd Lyght, Charles McRae, and Antone Davis-- average players at best and all but Lyght were outright busts. Eric Turner was a special safety and was taken #2 overall. Maryland, a Miami DT who was coached by Jimmy Johnson when he was the Canes' HC, was rated a top ten prospect but no one considered him to be worthy of being the top pick overall.

Dallas took him because they at least knew him. Herman Moore, the 10th pick, and Eric Turner were the only ones worthy of their draft status and even Turner at 2nd overall was pushing it. Dallas took Alvin Harper two picks after Moore (with another of their extra picks) and I always wondered what would have been had they been able to draft Moore, who was fantastic.

[tunahelper]

Crrent player: Roy Williams

Has not shown he is a complete safety. Great blitzer, run support, but he has not been great in coverage.

[NinePointOh]

Crrent player: Roy Williams

Has not shown he is a complete safety. Great blitzer, run support, but he has not been great in coverage.

Nobody's overrating him anymore.

Everybody knows about Roy's inadequacies because they've been reported to death and ridiculously exaggerated. Every time he's even in the frame when an opponent scores a touchdown, everybody piles on and says he got "burned," regardless of the coverage responsibilities.

Roy's not overrated by any stretch of the imagination. He's now one of the most underrated players in the league.

[MossBurner]

he played hard, was consistent, made lots of tough catches, was classy as could be, and did all the little things..


Keyshawn was and is the antithesis of classy. Come on.

Drew Bledsoe is classy. Keyshawn is a primadonna, cry-baby, jerk.

[kTXe]

Keyshawn was and is the antithesis of classy. Come on.

Drew Bledsoe is classy. Keyshawn is a primadonna, cry-baby, jerk.
Stick to commenting on your own team.

When Key was here, he was everything you could ever want in a player AND a person. In addition to being great on the field, he never caused a problem off of it, and was very involved in the community.

[MC KAos]

wow, that sounds like a pretty hidious class to have a number one overall pick, so who ended up being the best player from that draft?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Keyshawn was and is the antithesis of classy. Come on.

Drew Bledsoe is classy. Keyshawn is a primadonna, cry-baby, jerk.

Hard to be any more clueless then you clearly are right now.

[jem88]

Young threw a perfect deep post strike complete to Rice who had fried Ike Holt on the play
Come on Ravi, was that really necessary? You don't see me attacking Joey Galloway here! :-(

[MossBurner]

How many times has Key melted down on the sideline or threw his hands up on the field when he didn't get the ball?

"Give me the damn ball!" Does that sound familiar?

Didn't he get deactivated midseason in Tampa b/c of his attitude before getting shipped out of town?

Ask any NFL fan to name the most arrogant, jerk player in the league, and the majority of answers will be either TO or Meshawn.

[ABQCOWBOY]

How many times has Key melted down on the sideline or threw his hands up on the field when he didn't get the ball?

"Give me the damn ball!" Does that sound familiar?

Didn't he get deactivated midseason in Tampa b/c of his attitude before getting shipped out of town?

Ask any NFL fan to name the most arrogant, jerk player in the league, and the majority of answers will be either TO or Meshawn.


Not in Dallas. None of that was his attitude here. The guy came to work, gave it his all and did what was asked of him to the best of his ability. I have no problems with Key while he was here. Wish we still had him to tell the truth.

[ringmaster]

Overrated? I looked over the current roster and was hard-pressed to find a single player half the fans and/or media don't complain about.

QB: "Bledsoe's slow, old, and throws too many picks. Romo and Henson are scrubs. We need a real QB."
RB: "Julius doesn't get through the hole quick enough, and he's always injured. We should have drafted Stephen Jackson when we had the chance."
WR: "TO's a cancer and both Owens and Glenn are too old to run onto the field. The Eagles and 49ers are laughing their butts off at Owens' nice guy act, because we all know it's a given that he WILL destroy the Dallas Cowboys."
TE: "Fasano? What a wasted pick! Why do we need another TE when we signed Hannam? Hannam? How is he supposed to fill Dan Campbell's shoes?"
OL: "Every o-line position is a question mark. This is easily the worst line in the NFL. Why didn't we sign Wahle instead of Rivera? If we pick up the phone when Lincoln Kennedy calls, it must mean our linemen are worthless."
DL: "Ellis is a cancer who needs to shut up and doesn't fit in this system. Spears can't stay healthy. Ferguson is old, overpaid, and will never be as good as Glover."
LB: "Singleton's worthless and always out of position. Shawne Merriman made the Pro Bowl -- we should have taken him over Ware. Carpenter was a reach and is injury prone. We should have taken Lawson instead."
CB: "Glenn is small and always gets burned. Henry got injured and nearly ruined our season. Why didn't we sign Ken Lucas or Fred Smoot?"
S: "Keith Davis is the worst player in the history of the NFL. He deserved to get shot repeatedly. Roy Williams is fat, slow, and covers less than Lil Kim's wardrobe."
ST: "Vanderjagt is a loudmouth idiot who's missed half his kicks in TC and flat-out can't kickoff."
Coaching staff: "Parcells has never won without Belichick. He's a jerk, a control freak, and he's holding our youngsters back with his own bloated ego. And he has breasts. The fact that Tony Sparano got promoted is a mistake of Neville Chamberlain-like proportions. Zimmer is too conservative and should have been fired long ago. Please let some other team be stupid enough to hire him as a head coach! Why didn't we sign Al Saunders and Gregg Williams like the Redskins did?"


These are really the only guys I could name that I don't hear many complaints about:

-Marion Barber
-Patrick Crayton
-Jason Witten
-Terence Newman

Witten and Newman were statistically at or near the top of the league in efficiency and production at their positions, so I could hardly call them overrated. Barber exceeded expectations, and the praise for him is fairly guarded.

So I guess, by default, I'm going with Patrick Crayton. Some folks consider him a capable #1 or #2 starter. He has shown some ability ... but the amount of praise he receives is probably over the top for a guy with 500 career yards. This is the whinniest post I ever read Ken Lucas, or Fred Smoot their both overrated and still crying about Merriman, San Diego, has a huge fan base go over there how can you overrated a whole team moron.

[MONT17]

how can u be over rated when u are a HOFer!?!?!

[Crown Royal]

Current player - Bradie James. He's good, but for me he isn't that amazing. He gets a lot of tackles, but he'd be pathetic not to playing his position. He's a good, solid player, but in 2 years, when our starting LBers are Ware, James, Burnett and Carpenter, Bradie will be the most expendable.

I would NOT sign him to a new contract until at least midway through the season.

Other current players:

Tyson Thompson
Justin Beriault
Jay Ratliff
Akin Ayodele

[Connection20]

The answer is clearly Roy Williams. On this board?? nah, hes not too overrated because at least 80% of the people here know and understand football pretty well. But out there in the real world? In the great state of Texas? hahaha, yeah he's WAAAY overrated. Just yerterday at work I had a guy telling me how Roy was the best safety in the league, blah blah blah. Hes not even the best safety in his division. Hell, he might be THIRD in his division. The guy couldnt cover me, and Im not nearly as fast as I was in high school. I keep hearing people talk about now that Watkins is here, no more last second TDs. PFFFT, it wasnt Keith Davis who made the errors on those plays. Both the Redskins plays? Roy. The Shockey TD at the end of the first game against the Giants? Roy. The man flat out cannot cover anyone. I wish we would have fed him a biscuit, moved him to ILB, never signed Ayodele, moved Keith Davis to SS and start Watkins at free. Then he wouldnt be overrated anymore.


Secondly, Julius Jones comes to mind, all these damn Cowboy fans in my area talk about is how great he is. As of right now hes an average, injury prone back whos had a couple of really great games. Thats it. Until he rushes for 1,000 (which shouldnt even be the standard anymore) then hes nothing.

[kTXe]

The answer is clearly Roy Williams. On this board?? nah, hes not too overrated because at least 80% of the people here know and understand football pretty well. But out there in the real world? In the great state of Texas? hahaha, yeah he's WAAAY overrated. Just yerterday at work I had a guy telling me how Roy was the best safety in the league, blah blah blah. Hes not even the best safety in his division. Hell, he might be THIRD in his division. The guy couldnt cover me, and Im not nearly as fast as I was in high school. I keep hearing people talk about now that Watkins is here, no more last second TDs. PFFFT, it wasnt Keith Davis who made the errors on those plays. Both the Redskins plays? Roy. The Shockey TD at the end of the first game against the Giants? Roy. The man flat out cannot cover anyone. I wish we would have fed him a biscuit, moved him to ILB, never signed Ayodele, moved Keith Davis to SS and start Watkins at free. Then he wouldnt be overrated anymore.
So the guy was directly responsible for a TD given up to a Pro Bowl TE and was involved in 2 others given up to a Pro Bowl WR...and now he is ridiculously overrated? Pray tell, what other huge mistakes did he make in the passing game last year? He missed a tackle against Tony Gonzalez. That's it. Four plays. Four plays that any person can point to throughout the course of an entire season, and now the guy is totally overrated. Get a clue. You sound like a complete ***.

[jem88]

This is the whinniest post I ever read Ken Lucas, or Fred Smoot their both overrated and still crying about Merriman, San Diego, has a huge fan base go over there how can you overrated a whole team moron.
Nice to see that you read the post carefully.

[ringmaster]

:) Nice to see that you read the post carefully. Thanks bud.........

[kTXe]

:) Thanks bud.........
:banghead:

[Crown Royal]

The answer is clearly Roy Williams. On this board?? nah, hes not too overrated because at least 80% of the people here know and understand football pretty well. But out there in the real world? In the great state of Texas? hahaha, yeah he's WAAAY overrated. Just yerterday at work I had a guy telling me how Roy was the best safety in the league, blah blah blah. Hes not even the best safety in his division. Hell, he might be THIRD in his division. The guy couldnt cover me, and Im not nearly as fast as I was in high school. I keep hearing people talk about now that Watkins is here, no more last second TDs. PFFFT, it wasnt Keith Davis who made the errors on those plays. Both the Redskins plays? Roy. The Shockey TD at the end of the first game against the Giants? Roy. The man flat out cannot cover anyone. I wish we would have fed him a biscuit, moved him to ILB, never signed Ayodele, moved Keith Davis to SS and start Watkins at free. Then he wouldnt be overrated anymore.


Secondly, Julius Jones comes to mind, all these damn Cowboy fans in my area talk about is how great he is. As of right now hes an average, injury prone back whos had a couple of really great games. Thats it. Until he rushes for 1,000 (which shouldnt even be the standard anymore) then hes nothing.

The troll is strong with you.

[NinePointOh]

This is the whinniest post I ever read Ken Lucas, or Fred Smoot their both overrated and still crying about Merriman, San Diego, has a huge fan base go over there how can you overrated a whole team moron.

The entire post went right over your head.

[Doomsday101]

The answer is clearly Roy Williams. On this board?? nah, hes not too overrated because at least 80% of the people here know and understand football pretty well. But out there in the real world? In the great state of Texas? hahaha, yeah he's WAAAY overrated. Just yerterday at work I had a guy telling me how Roy was the best safety in the league, blah blah blah. Hes not even the best safety in his division. Hell, he might be THIRD in his division. The guy couldnt cover me, and Im not nearly as fast as I was in high school. I keep hearing people talk about now that Watkins is here, no more last second TDs. PFFFT, it wasnt Keith Davis who made the errors on those plays. Both the Redskins plays? Roy. The Shockey TD at the end of the first game against the Giants? Roy. The man flat out cannot cover anyone. I wish we would have fed him a biscuit, moved him to ILB, never signed Ayodele, moved Keith Davis to SS and start Watkins at free. Then he wouldnt be overrated anymore.


Secondly, Julius Jones comes to mind, all these damn Cowboy fans in my area talk about is how great he is. As of right now hes an average, injury prone back whos had a couple of really great games. Thats it. Until he rushes for 1,000 (which shouldnt even be the standard anymore) then hes nothing.

Roy would not have to cover you, he would just lay you out. RW is a very intimidating force on the field and I think he draws a good comparison to Cliff Harris, he was not a ball hawk he went for the kill shot while Charlie Waters would go for the ball. This is what made them a great combination on the field.

[NinePointOh]

Both the Redskins plays? Roy.

Wrong. It was Glenn, as both Roy and Parcells have stated.

[Connection20]

So the guy was directly responsible for a TD given up to a Pro Bowl TE and was involved in 2 others given up to a Pro Bowl WR...and now he is ridiculously overrated? Pray tell, what other huge mistakes did he make in the passing game last year? He missed a tackle against Tony Gonzalez. That's it. Four plays. Four plays that any person can point to throughout the course of an entire season, and now the guy is totally overrated. Get a clue. You sound like a complete ***.

You the one that sounds like a ***. He gave up 4 TDs...so those were the only mistakes he made all season huh? Watch some football, and you will see that you dont have to give up a TD to make a mistake. Hes always giving up big plays in the passing game.

Now lets go to those touchdowns he gave up to these Pro Bowl players...the Shockey TD...remember that one? The one where he completely freakin forgot to cover the guy? You know hes a Pro Bowl TE, I know hes a Pro Bowl TE, Im thinking Roy knows...so one would THINK he might want to cover the guy.

The two Moss TDs....it was freakin Cover 4, your only job is to play inside the WR and dont let him get deeper than you, on both plays he tried to hit the receiver instead of making a play on the ball (his biggest weakness) On one of those he could have easily picked it off, and the other he could have batted down.

Roy gives up catches alllllllllll game long so that he can get one or two knockout hits. Im as big a Cowboy fan as anyone on this board, I come here everyday refreshing a million times to get little Cowboy TC tidbits just like the rest of you. I just have the ability to look at my teams from a non-homer kind of way. Take Ohio State for example, I hate Troy Smith, I know hes hyped up to be the best thing since sliced bread, but he led the damn nation in fumbles last year, he turns over the ball by putting it on the ground like twice a freaking game. Take Texas for example, all I hear from Longhorn fans is we will be great this year, we have a strong running game and a good defense, we wont have to rely on our frosh QB. Oh REALLY.....tell me, how did that EXACT same plan work out last year for OU...oh, hey, how did it work out for Florida State?

[Bob Sacamano]

the Shockey TD...remember that one? The one where he completely freakin forgot to cover the guy?

you mean the one where Ware didn't get a bump on Shockey at the line, and where Roy was 10-15 yards away from him when he made the catch because of it?

Roy rated 97 as as safety, and AdamJt has an interesting stat-line of Roy's from '05, if that's overrated, then, idk, 100% of the safeties in this league suck

[stealth]

julius jones

[NinePointOh]

The two Moss TDs....it was freakin Cover 4, your only job is to play inside the WR and dont let him get deeper than you, on both plays he tried to hit the receiver instead of making a play on the ball (his biggest weakness) On one of those he could have easily picked it off, and the other he could have batted down.

Roy gives up catches alllllllllll game long so that he can get one or two knockout hits. Im as big a Cowboy fan as anyone on this board, I come here everyday refreshing a million times to get little Cowboy TC tidbits just like the rest of you.

Apparently, you completely missed the ten thousand tidbits about Bill Parcells stating flatly in his post-game press conference that both of the Moss TDs were Aaron Glenn's responsibility, not Roy's.

[kTXe]

You the one that sounds like a ***. He gave up 4 TDs...so those were the only mistakes he made all season huh? Watch some football, and you will see that you dont have to give up a TD to make a mistake. Hes always giving up big plays in the passing game.
Actually, the Gonzo play I referenced was not a TD. Plus, as stated many tiems before, Roy AT BEST could only share the blame for the Moss TDs. The only TD that was solely his fault was the Shockey play. Period.

Oh, and I know that you don't have to give up a TD to have it be a big play. Hence the reason I REFERECED ONE THAT WASN'T A TD. You can't provide any big plays that he gave up other than the ones that were beaten into the ground by the national media. Congrats, you're a moron.

Roy gives up catches alllllllllll game long so that he can get one or two knockout hits.
That may be the stupidest thing I have ever read. And I post at the Ranch all the time.

[Sam I Am]

i think you have a good point jcblanco22, the most overrated thing in cowboys history was probably that "amazing" oline the cowboys had in the early 90s. I mean, how many of them will be hall of famers or even ring of honor inductees?!?!?!?! and LA was only there in 95, not b4. In the same note emmitt is underrated IMO because of the overrated line
Thats nuts. Emmitt did what he did because of the offensive line. It doesn't matter that Larry Allen wasn't there during the 91-94 season. In 1992 Dallas' offensive line helped Emmitt rush for 163 yards breaking the Eagles streak of 53 straight games without allowing a 100 yard rushing game. One year later, Emmitt had a career day with 237 yards against those very same Eagles. While Emmitt played a HUGE part in that, the offensive line was the key and without them, Emmitt wouldn't be the all-time rushing leader he is today.

I wonder if KC's fans give their line credit for Larry Johnson's season last year. Meaning Willy Roaf (11-time probowler) and Will Shields. (10-time pro bowler) On top of that Brian Waters was in the pro-bowl last season. KC had (4) pro bowlers last year that all helped the running game and Willie Roaf who is (now was) argueable the best offensive linemen in the league.

KC's pro bowl offensive line/running game blockers
Willie Roaf (11-time pro bowler)
Will Shields* (10-time pro bowler)
Tony Gonzales* (6-times pro bowler)
Tony Richards* (2-time pro bowler)
Brian Waters* (pro bowler)* Pro Bowl last year

Larry Johnson had the best line in football and he made the best of it. Emmitt Smith had the best line in football and he also made the best of it. Emmitt knew it was his line was the reason for all of his success.

(this quote is dated a bit)

Dallas Cowboys running back and the NFL's second all-time leading rusher Emmitt Smith says the most special gift he gave was during Christmas of 1991 after he won his first NFL rushing title. He awarded all offensive linemen on his team Rolex watches as a Christmas thank-you gift.

If a team's offensive line sucks, it doesn't matter who is on your team (TO, Emmitt Smith, Jerry Rice, etc) You're offensive is going to suck. As a fan of the Cowboys and watching the Cowboys flounder last year after Adams went down should have key you in on how important the offensive line actually is!!!

[Doomsday101]

The 90's line does get a lot of credit for Emmitt success, however none of the other backs did anything behind that same line. When Emmitt was out our running game was dead. I think highly of that Cowboys OL but Emmitt also made them look better than maybe they were.

[Connection20]

Actually, the Gonzo play I referenced was not a TD. Plus, as stated many tiems before, Roy AT BEST could only share the blame for the Moss TDs. The only TD that was solely his fault was the Shockey play. Period.

Oh, and I know that you don't have to give up a TD to have it be a big play. Hence the reason I REFERECED ONE THAT WASN'T A TD. You can't provide any big plays that he gave up other than the ones that were beaten into the ground by the national media. Congrats, you're a moron.


Thanks for making this a name calling contest, let me tell you how mature you are. Someone made a post about which cowboys are overrated, I posted my opinions on the topic based on what I hear from Cowboy fans I work and talk with everyday. (Im a bartender so I hear it all the time) They all think Roy is the best damn safety in the league when he clearly is not. Polamalu, Reed, Sanders are all easily better, and I would take Taylor and Dawkins over him personally. Now, it doesnt matter who I would choose over him, but regardless, the man IS OVERRATED by most Cowboy fans. That being said, you attacked me personally for stating my opinion about a football player....if you ask me thats a pretty moronic thing to do.

As for the Gonzo TD, I admit I had to work that day so I actually only saw bits and pieces of that game, thought it was a TD, thats fine.

The Skins game I still have on TiVo, and I still contend that had he just looked up and played the ball he could knocked away both of them, but he was busy trying to tackle Moss.

No, I cant point out specific instances because I get mad at him when he does it then I forget it cause the Cowboys are on, I have other things to watch. But all the time I see him laying into a WR who sometimes catches it and sometimes doesnt when he clearly could have just hit the ball, or picked it off.

Now, I love Roy Williams, I dont want anyone to think that I dont, he is however overrated by alot of Cowboys fans. Spags has even said on numerous occasions, no we dont need a better FS, we need Roy to learn how to cover better, how else will we be able to incorporate some Cover 2 in our scheme.


Again, thanks for stooping down to name calling, you showed your maturity with that, I wont be posting in this thread again.

[Ben_n_austin]

Quincy, Hutchison, Henson .. no particular order.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Quincy, Hutchison, Henson .. no particular order.


Wow, touch crowed. Hard for me to imagine any of these guys being overated but I suppose it's possible.

[kTXe]

Thanks for making this a name calling contest, let me tell you how mature you are. Someone made a post about which cowboys are overrated, I posted my opinions on the topic based on what I hear from Cowboy fans I work and talk with everyday. (Im a bartender so I hear it all the time) They all think Roy is the best damn safety in the league when he clearly is not. Polamalu, Reed, Sanders are all easily better, and I would take Taylor and Dawkins over him personally. Now, it doesnt matter who I would choose over him, but regardless, the man IS OVERRATED by most Cowboy fans. That being said, you attacked me personally for stating my opinion about a football player....if you ask me thats a pretty moronic thing to do.
Sanders? Bob Sanders?!?! Okie doke!

Do I think Roy is the best safety in the league? No, but he is damn close. And you have WAAAAAAAY overblown his coverage deficiencies.

As for the Gonzo TD, I admit I had to work that day so I actually only saw bits and pieces of that game, thought it was a TD, thats fine.
You were factually incorrect. If you want to try to make a point, you should watch out for saying things that are easily proved as 100% false.

The Skins game I still have on TiVo, and I still contend that had he just looked up and played the ball he could knocked away both of them, but he was busy trying to tackle Moss.
Watch them again. Please. So, are you telling me that he was more concerned about tackling Moss on the first pass when Moss was already IN THE ENDZONE??? Hmmm...methinks not. In fact, he came incredibly close to knocking that ball away and did a damn fine job even getting himself in position to make a play.

The second one, Moss was well by him when he caught the ball. He wasn't in position to make a play on the ball or make a tackle. I really have no idea what you are watching, son.

No, I cant point out specific instances because I get mad at him when he does it then I forget it cause the Cowboys are on, I have other things to watch. But all the time I see him laying into a WR who sometimes catches it and sometimes doesnt when he clearly could have just hit the ball, or picked it off.
Ah, the nameless instances that occur "all the time". Gotta love them. Straight from Trolling 101.

Now, I love Roy Williams, I dont want anyone to think that I dont, he is however overrated by alot of Cowboys fans. Spags has even said on numerous occasions, no we dont need a better FS, we need Roy to learn how to cover better, how else will we be able to incorporate some Cover 2 in our scheme.
Using Spags to support your argument??? :lmao2:


Again, thanks for stooping down to name calling, you showed your maturity with that, I wont be posting in this thread again.
If I call a donkey a donkey, should he be offended? Why is calling a moron a moron any different?

[Nerm]

I always think it is funny when people bring up the "Great OL" factor when discussing Emmitt. After Emmitt came in, the blocking schemes changed. Emmitt had the vision to be able to change running plays to the holes that were created naturally. There were a lot of running plays designed to capture that ability. Instead of having to move a DL player in a specific direction, the OL could decide if they would be able to move their assigned DL player left, right, or backwards after the snap. That is a huge advantage over having to create a hole in a specific area. Emmitt could simply pick the biggest hole, rather than have to go to a specific hole, because of his vision. I always hear people say “Anyone could have run through those big holes the OL created.” Sorry, the OL could not have created those holes for any RB.

On the flip side you see Barry Sanders. When a player just stands there after getting the ball, or runs backwards... how good does the OL look?

The 90s OL gets my vote as overrated. E. Williams and the early version of Larry Allen were great though. Most of the rest would not have sen pro bowls with a different RB.

[ABQCOWBOY]

wow, that sounds like a pretty hidious class to have a number one overall pick, so who ended up being the best player from that draft?


I'd say it was Brett Favre. He was the 6th pick of the 2nd round. 33rd over all.

[ghost]

In 1991 Dallas traded one of their first round picks and their second round pick for New England's first pick overall with hopes of drafting Rocket Ismail. Rocket instead opted for a deal with the CFL and left the Cowboys high and dry with no one to pick. This was one of the weakest top tens in any draft I have ever seen. The likes of Bruce Pickens, Mike Croel, Todd Lyght, Charles McRae, and Antone Davis-- average players at best and all but Lyght were outright busts. Eric Turner was a special safety and was taken #2 overall. Maryland, a Miami DT who was coached by Jimmy Johnson when he was the Canes' HC, was rated a top ten prospect but no one considered him to be worthy of being the top pick overall.

Dallas took him because they at least knew him. Herman Moore, the 10th pick, and Eric Turner were the only ones worthy of their draft status and even Turner at 2nd overall was pushing it. Dallas took Alvin Harper two picks after Moore (with another of their extra picks) and I always wondered what would have been had they been able to draft Moore, who was fantastic.


Ahh, thanks for teh detailed explanation. I really appreciate it. That said, how did you guys potentially aquire Rocket Ismail?

[dozin_theknick]

This should rattle some cages.....Troy Aikman may be the most over rated Cowboy ever.

[RonBurgandy31]

This should rattle some cages.....Troy Aikman may be the most over rated Cowboy ever.

:laugh2: Yea ok.... he did only win 3 Super Bowls

[dozin_theknick]

He only threw like 160 TDs in his career. Road on the back of ES. By the way, I think Brady is even more over rated. I still think Aikman is HOF deserving, Cowboy fans are really just to generous.

[RonBurgandy31]

He only threw like 160 TDs in his career. Road on the back of ES. By the way, I think Brady is even more over rated. I still think Aikman is HOF deserving, Cowboy fans are really just to generous.

165 Tds Career, and it doesnt matter b.c he wins. 3 superbowls is 3 more then Dan Marino ever got, and he had 420

[dargonking999]

165 Tds Career, and it doesnt matter b.c he wins. 3 superbowls is 3 more then Dan Marino ever got, and he had 420

Remember dude, its not the amount of games you win, or even what you win, its how many yards and TD's can you go for, that makes you great.

Jeez am i just dealing with idiots around here:rolleyes: :lmao:

[RonBurgandy31]

Remember dude, its not the amount of games you win, or even what you win, its how many yards and TD's can you go for, that makes you great.

Jeez am i just dealing with idiots around here:rolleyes: :lmao:

:p:
Ik right i mean who cares if you win every superbowl you appear in, if u dont throw for more than 200 td your garbage...

[TEK2000]

Polamalu, Reed, Sanders are all easily better, and I would take Taylor and Dawkins over him personally. Now, it doesnt matter who I would choose over him, but regardless, the man IS OVERRATED by most Cowboy fans.

Reed and Dawkins are the only 2 on that list that you'll get credit for.

Taylor had more TD's completed on him than any other safety in the league in 2004.. You'd choose him over Roy? WHY?

If you think Roy has serious coverage deficiencies... then Polamalu should be GAWD AWFUL according to your standards. I guess you missed the play where he let Jerramy Stevens rome around in the endzone for a TD in the SUPER BOWL!... Polamalu was in MAN COVERAGE and was over 5 yards away from him.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4411/polamaluvsedgexl1.gif


Bob Sanders? 1 INT, 1 FF, 3 Pass Defs, over the course of 20 games. WOW! Certainly he's better than Roy! :lmao: Of course... it certainly hurts his stats that he misses multiple games every year.

Are you sure its not you that is wrong instead of "MOST COWBOY FANS" like you've pointed out?

[Cowboy Bebop]

Reed and Dawkins are the only 2 on that list that you'll get credit for.

Taylor had more TD's completed on him than any other safety in the league in 2004.. You'd choose him over Roy? WHY?

If you think Roy has serious coverage deficiencies... then Polamalu should be GAWD AWFUL according to your standards. I guess you missed the play where he let Jerramy Stevens rome around in the endzone for a TD in the SUPER BOWL!... Polamalu was in MAN COVERAGE and was over 5 yards away from him.

Bob Sanders? 1 INT, 1 FF, 3 Pass Defs, over the course of 20 games. WOW! Certainly he's better than Roy! :lmao: Of course... it certainly hurts his stats that he misses multiple games every year.

Are you sure its not you that is wrong instead of "MOST COWBOY FANS" like you've pointed out?


QFMFT

[jcblanco22]

Ahh, thanks for teh detailed explanation. I really appreciate it. That said, how did you guys potentially aquire Rocket Ismail?

7 years, 21 million in the offseason leading up to the '99 campaign. Ismail was a free agent after Carolina opted not to re-sign him and picked up Dallas's own Patrick Jeffers instead that offseason.

He was billed to be that complementary receiver that Irvin had lacked since Harper's salad days, and definitely was looking the part the first three games that season. In fact, he got off to a particularly strong start in Week 1. :D

After Irvin went down for his career in the 1st half of the Eagles game in Week 4, Ismail got a lot more than he bargained for the rest of the '99 season as the No. 1 receiver. He ended up with 80 catches and 1100 or so yards in a role that his body type was never intended for, and he survived it in gallant fashion.

I thought Ismail's '99 performance was actually one of the more underrated campaigns in recent Cowboys history, and I place Emmitt's performance that same season (1,397 yards in only 13+ games) right alongside it.

[jcblanco22]

Hard to believe that in a thread with this theme no one has yet indicted Alvin Harper, although I know ravidubey brought him up in his discussion of the '91 draft in an earlier post.

I not only thought Harper was overrated after seeing his performances in Tampa in '95 and '96, I thought he was already in that category his final 2 Cowboys seasons. I recall giving a silent "amen" to a Switzer quote I saw during the offseason of Harper's departure (spring of '95), where he stated that "Alvin seemed to drop a lot of the easy ones", or something to that effect. He had enough big catches in big moments and plenty of tantalizing measurables to fool a good amount of people for a while, but I know I wasn't the only one who found his highly inconsistent hands maddening.

[BigDFan5]

Anthony Henry.

Don't get me wrong. I love his game and think he is a great complement to Newman. I also think that he is one of the better #2 corners in the game.

However, people all over the place were calling him our defensive MVP and saying he was the best CB on the team before he got hurt.

Bill Parcells was one of the guys that said Henry was our DMVP before he got hurt

[BigDFan5]

The answer is clearly Roy Williams. On this board?? nah, hes not too overrated because at least 80% of the people here know and understand football pretty well. But out there in the real world? In the great state of Texas? hahaha, yeah he's WAAAY overrated. Just yerterday at work I had a guy telling me how Roy was the best safety in the league, blah blah blah. Hes not even the best safety in his division. Hell, he might be THIRD in his division. The guy couldnt cover me, and Im not nearly as fast as I was in high school. I keep hearing people talk about now that Watkins is here, no more last second TDs. PFFFT, it wasnt Keith Davis who made the errors on those plays. Both the Redskins plays? Roy. The Shockey TD at the end of the first game against the Giants? Roy. The man flat out cannot cover anyone. I wish we would have fed him a biscuit, moved him to ILB, never signed Ayodele, moved Keith Davis to SS and start Watkins at free. Then he wouldnt be overrated anymore.


Secondly, Julius Jones comes to mind, all these damn Cowboy fans in my area talk about is how great he is. As of right now hes an average, injury prone back whos had a couple of really great games. Thats it. Until he rushes for 1,000 (which shouldnt even be the standard anymore) then hes nothing.


http://www.observationdeck.org/lip_images/stemcell.jpg

[BigDFan5]

That may be the stupidest thing I have ever read. And I post at the Ranch all the time.

:laugh2:

[ghost]

7 years, 21 million in the offseason leading up to the '99 campaign. Ismail was a free agent after Carolina opted not to re-sign him and picked up Dallas's own Patrick Jeffers instead that offseason.

He was billed to be that complementary receiver that Irvin had lacked since Harper's salad days, and definitely was looking the part the first three games that season. In fact, he got off to a particularly strong start in Week 1. :D

After Irvin went down for his career in the 1st half of the Eagles game in Week 4, Ismail got a lot more than he bargained for the rest of the '99 season as the No. 1 receiver. He ended up with 80 catches and 1100 or so yards in a role that his body type was never intended for, and he survived it in gallant fashion.

I thought Ismail's '99 performance was actually one of the more underrated campaigns in recent Cowboys history, and I place Emmitt's performance that same season (1,397 yards in only 13+ games) right alongside it.

ahh. thanks again. so what happened to Ismail? did he just burn out? and how'd he end up with the panthers.


thanks again for all the answers

[AdamJT13]

The two Moss TDs....it was freakin Cover 4, your only job is to play inside the WR and dont let him get deeper than you

That's NOT how the Cowboys (and many other teams) play Cover 4. In the Cowboys' Cover 4, the safeties' primary responsibility is man-to-man coverage on the inside receiver if he runs a vertical route. The cornerbacks play man-to-man on the outside receivers. If the inside receiver does not run a vertical route, the safety can then help on the outside receiver.

On the first play, Roy's man (Cooley) ran a vertical route (a post), so Roy had NO coverage responsibility on Moss. He reacted to the ball being thrown and almost made the play anyway, but that was in no way, shape or form his responsibility. On Moss' second TD, Roy's man (Cooley) started to run a vertical route but cut it to a deep out. Even though Roy diagnosed the play early, by the time Cooley started to make his cut, it was too late for Roy to cover Moss. In that scheme against that play, the only way Roy could have been responsible for that touchdown is if he had ignored his primary responsibility on the play. That's why when Parcells was asked point-blank if Roy was responsible for Moss' TD catches, he said no, those really weren't his plays.

[dbair1967]

This should rattle some cages.....Troy Aikman may be the most over rated Cowboy ever.

:rolleyes:

David

[CrazyCowboy]

I cannot think of any "overated" Cowboys......how about deadskins, aints or beages?

[Sam I Am]

The 90's line does get a lot of credit for Emmitt success, however none of the other backs did anything behind that same line. When Emmitt was out our running game was dead. I think highly of that Cowboys OL but Emmitt also made them look better than maybe they were.

Emmitt was one of the most durable backs of all time. There is a reason other players didn't rush for 100+ yards. It's because Emmitt was always taking 25-30 rushes a game...

[Doomsday101]

Emmitt was one of the most durable backs of all time. There is a reason other players didn't rush for 100+ yards. It's because Emmitt was always taking 25-30 rushes a game...

No doubt he had a big load to carry but he still rushed for a 4.2 per carry career average and in his prime those per carry avg. was better than that. I saw what other backs looked like behind that same OL and none came close to ES in the prime.

[Sam I Am]

I always think it is funny when people bring up the "Great OL" factor when discussing Emmitt. After Emmitt came in, the blocking schemes changed. Emmitt had the vision to be able to change running plays to the holes that were created naturally. There were a lot of running plays designed to capture that ability. Instead of having to move a DL player in a specific direction, the OL could decide if they would be able to move their assigned DL player left, right, or backwards after the snap. That is a huge advantage over having to create a hole in a specific area. Emmitt could simply pick the biggest hole, rather than have to go to a specific hole, because of his vision. I always hear people say “Anyone could have run through those big holes the OL created.” Sorry, the OL could not have created those holes for any RB.

On the flip side you see Barry Sanders. When a player just stands there after getting the ball, or runs backwards... how good does the OL look?

The 90s OL gets my vote as overrated. E. Williams and the early version of Larry Allen were great though. Most of the rest would not have sen pro bowls with a different RB.
You don't remember Erik Williams do you? NOBODY and I mean NOBODY pancaked Reggie White more than Erik Williams did. Everyone says how great Larry Allen was, but Erik Williams was ALWAYS the meanest player on the field (and even Reggie White said that). Erik is the one who invented and because of his use of it had ban the Head Slap. It seems nobody remembers John Madden ALWAY talking about Williams and how dominate he was. I remember him saying how Williams was the only player he ever saw take Reggie White completely out of the game. (237 yards rushing against the Eagles in '92, breaking the 53 straight games without a 100 yard rusher in '91 against the Eagles) It wasn't till after he tore his knee up in the car accident that he faded away and never was the same again. Nate Newton was one of the fastest pulling guards I've ever seen. Emmitt also had Moose, Mark Stepnoski, Mark Tuinei, and Kevin Gogan. That line was loaded with Pro bowlers.

[Sam I Am]

No doubt he had a big load to carry but he still rushed for a 4.2 per carry career average and in his prime those per carry avg. was better than that. I saw what other backs looked like behind that same OL and none came close to ES in the prime.

Sherman Williams had a 4.3 avg in '95. But the point is that not a single back besides Emmitt had more than 75 attempts in a season. Williams only had 48 attempts when he recorded a 4.3 avg.

[dbair1967]

You don't remember Erik Williams do you? NOBODY and I mean NOBODY pancaked Reggie White more than Erik Williams did. Everyone says how great Larry Allen was, but Erik Williams was ALWAYS the meanest player on the field (and even Reggie White said that). Erik is the one who invented and because of his use of it had ban the Head Slap. It seems nobody remembers John Madden ALWAY talking about Williams and how dominate he was. I remember him saying how Williams was the only player he ever saw take Reggie White completely out of the game. (237 yards rushing against the Eagles in '92, breaking the 53 straight games without a 100 yard rusher in '91 against the Eagles) It wasn't till after he tore his knee up in the car accident that he faded away and never was the same again. Nate Newton was one of the fastest pulling guards I've ever seen. Emmitt also had Moose, Mark Stepnoski, Mark Tuinei, and Kevin Gogan. That line was loaded with Pro bowlers.

the OL didnt have a probowler until 1992 when Stepnoski and Newton made it...Larry Allen and Erik Williams (pre car wreck) were dominating OL's who were great talents, but the rest of those guys were over-achievers who became technically sound guys from great coaching (Tony Wise, then Houck)...only Allen was drafted before the 3rd rd...

people dont like to admit it, but Emmitt's great running skills and explosion through even the smallest holes were huge parts of why our OL was considered great...they didnt have to hold their blocks long for him or for Aikman, who had a lightning quick release and alot of our offense was predicated off timing routes...

David

[Doomsday101]

Sherman Williams had a 4.3 avg in '95. But the point is that not a single back besides Emmitt had more than 75 attempts in a season. Williams only had 48 attempts when he recorded a 4.3 avg.

Dude if you think ES was over rated fine, but I saw the man play and I saw the damage he did for Dallas and no other back was doing nothing. When Emmitt went down or missed a game we lost plain and simple. The year he held out and missed the 1st 2 games Dallas offense could not do anything, he returned and Dallas went on a big win streak. People can down play ES all they want as far as I'm concerned those people don't have a clue as to what they are talking about

[dbair1967]

Sherman Williams had a 4.3 avg in '95. But the point is that not a single back besides Emmitt had more than 75 attempts in a season. Williams only had 48 attempts when he recorded a 4.3 avg.

yeah, we all recall how Curvin Richards, Derrick Lassic and Lincoln Coleman just ran roughshod through defenses when they got their chances

:rolleyes:

it doesnt matter that they didnt get that many attempts, the fact is they didnt produce when they did get them (or in practice) and didnt warrant taking Emmitt out of the game...they couldnt be trusted

David

[burmafrd]

Point of fact. the head slap had been around for a LONG time before Erik Williams.

[Sam I Am]

Whoops, there seems to be a misconception here. I in no way beleive Emmith Smith was overrated. You got that all wrong. My issue was that no many people discounted the offensive line saying that Emmitt was "Just that Good". That isn't true at all. The only running back I ever saw that really didn't require a decent offensive line was Barry Sanders. He was a freak. Emmitt was just damn good.

Honestly, if Barry Sanders didn't retire. Emmitt would have never touched the titled All-Time NFL Rushing Leader.

[Sam I Am]

Actually, you're right it had. I over emphasized Williams role in it. Although, it IS A FACT that Williams is the reason it has been ban.

[Sam I Am]

yeah, we all recall how Curvin Richards, Derrick Lassic and Lincoln Coleman just ran roughshod through defenses when they got their chances

:rolleyes:

it doesnt matter that they didnt get that many attempts, the fact is they didnt produce when they did get them (or in practice) and didnt warrant taking Emmitt out of the game...they couldnt be trusted

David

I don't recall claiming any of the Cowboys running backs in the 90s where better than Emmitt. I only said that the offensive line was the most dominating in the league during the early 90s. Someone else brought up the other backs and I only pointed out the Sherman Williams avg 4.3 during 1995.

[Doomsday101]

Whoops, there seems to be a misconception here. I in no way beleive Emmith Smith was overrated. You got that all wrong. My issue was that no many people discounted the offensive line saying that Emmitt was "Just that Good". That isn't true at all. The only running back I ever saw that really didn't require a decent offensive line was Barry Sanders. He was a freak. Emmitt was just damn good.

Honestly, if Barry Sanders didn't retire. Emmitt would have never touched the titled All-Time NFL Rushing Leader.

You may be right about Sanders however it was ES winning the rushing titles for 4 or 5 years in a row not Barry. I have always said I think Sanders was the best pure runner but if I'm chasing title I'll take ES everything. ES could pick up the tough yards that make the differance in a game.

[dbair1967]

The only running back I ever saw that really didn't require a decent offensive line was Barry Sanders. He was a freak. Emmitt was just damn good.

.

please...all you recall about Barry Sanders was the ESPN highlights...all the people that say "he had no line" are so full of crap...Lomas Brown was in the probowl virtually every yr he was there...Kevin Glover was in the probowl a few times...they had Bill Fralic for a couple yrs...they had Jeff Hartings too...

then factor in that he played virtually his entire career in a spread type offense that really didnt allow defenses to put 8 or 9 guys in the box, and that explaisn alot of the HUGE running lanes he was able to get into...he was a great RB with tremendous homerun speed, but he was also a huge whiner, a guy who had trouble playing hurt, wasnt a very good receiver, was not a good blocker and was a mediocre short yardage runner who was consistently at the top of the league in runs for negative yards and you see why alot of believe he was an incredible talent, but wasnt the BEST RB or BEST player at his position

David

[dbair1967]

I don't recall claiming any of the Cowboys running backs in the 90s where better than Emmitt. I only said that the offensive line was the most dominating in the league during the early 90s. Someone else brought up the other backs and I only pointed out the Sherman Williams avg 4.3 during 1995.

again, if they were so dominating, why couldnt guys who were clearly AVERAGE or mediocre players have the same success running the ball?

David

[Apollo Creed]

Calling Roy Williams overrated is ridiculous. Everyone likes to point out that single Skins game, but they forget the huge plays he made in coverage against teams like Carolina and Philly. With one of them essentially winning us the game. I'd take that over the fluke against Washington any day of the week.

[jcblanco22]

please...all you recall about Barry Sanders was the ESPN highlights...all the people that say "he had no line" are so full of crap...Lomas Brown was in the probowl virtually every yr he was there...Kevin Glover was in the probowl a few times...they had Bill Fralic for a couple yrs...they had Jeff Hartings too...

then factor in that he played virtually his entire career in a spread type offense that really didnt allow defenses to put 8 or 9 guys in the box, and that explaisn alot of the HUGE running lanes he was able to get into...he was a great RB with tremendous homerun speed, but he was also a huge whiner, a guy who had trouble playing hurt, wasnt a very good receiver, was not a good blocker and was a mediocre short yardage runner who was consistently at the top of the league in runs for negative yards and you see why alot of believe he was an incredible talent, but wasnt the BEST RB or BEST player at his position

David

dbair, I think you've hit a home run with all of your posts in this thread but particularly this one, and particularly with the part I bolded above. Thank you for not only pointing out that Sanders wasn't exactly playing behind the Cowboys 2002 offensive line, but also naming the names of the Pro Bowlers on that line.

[ringmaster]

The entire post went right over your head. Yeah, just like your whinning is going to yours.:rolleyes:

[ringmaster]

:banghead: Right back at you:bang2:

[TEK2000]

Yeah, just like your whinning is going to yours.:rolleyes:

You should really stop.. you're the ONLY PERSON in the ENTIRE thread that didn't understand that post. For your own sake, please stop, you're only displaying more and more ignorance with every post.

[TEK2000]

That's NOT how the Cowboys (and many other teams) play Cover 4. In the Cowboys' Cover 4, the safeties' primary responsibility is man-to-man coverage on the inside receiver if he runs a vertical route. The cornerbacks play man-to-man on the outside receivers. If the inside receiver does not run a vertical route, the safety can then help on the outside receiver.

On the first play, Roy's man (Cooley) ran a vertical route (a post), so Roy had NO coverage responsibility on Moss. He reacted to the ball being thrown and almost made the play anyway, but that was in no way, shape or form his responsibility. On Moss' second TD, Roy's man (Cooley) started to run a vertical route but cut it to a deep out. Even though Roy diagnosed the play early, by the time Cooley started to make his cut, it was too late for Roy to cover Moss. In that scheme against that play, the only way Roy could have been responsible for that touchdown is if he had ignored his primary responsibility on the play. That's why when Parcells was asked point-blank if Roy was responsible for Moss' TD catches, he said no, those really weren't his plays.

Yet another dispute ending post by AdamJT. Great post man, great post!

[ringmaster]

You should really stop.. you're the ONLY PERSON in the ENTIRE thread that didn't understand that post. For your own sake, please stop, you're only displaying more and more ignorance with every post. Thank you Dr. Phil!

Like they always say ignorance is bliss you figure that out.

I read that post for what it was another crybaby rant.

I can't stand negative complainers, all of us complain, but when they complain about the same things over and over again then that's a certified crybaby.

For your sake think before you post next time.

[kTXe]

Thank you Dr. Phil!

Like they always say ignorance is bliss you figure that out.

I read that post for what it was another crybaby rant.

I can't stand negative complainers, all of us complain, but when they complain about the same things over and over again then that's a certified crybaby.

For your sake think before you post next time.
LOL!

There could be no greater confirmation that you should have taken TEK's advice.

[Sam I Am]

I'm not going to argue with you anti-Cowboys o-line fans. Obviously you're hell-bent on what you believe is true and refuse to give credit where credit is due. Though, I do find it funny how you want to point out the Barry Sanders had this *GREAT OFFENSIVE LINE* which in no way even came close to the Cowboys line, yet it's your excuse to how Sanders got all his yards...

Logical aptitude: Some people are blessed with it, others listen to their emotions.

[ConstantReboot]

First off, I still think that Keyshawn was underrated as a Cowboy.. he MIGHT be overrated in regards to his entire career and he might overrate himself, but as a Cowboy he never really got that many props.. he played hard, was consistent, made lots of tough catches, was classy as could be, and did all the little things..


He made a few clutch catches also that I can remember. I think they didn't use him enough especially when the game is on the line and we needed a first down or two. But thats just me.

Other than the blowup during the Philly game, your right that he was pretty much underrated.

:starspin

[ringmaster]

LOL!

There could be no greater confirmation that you should have taken TEK's advice. I answer to no one.

If you don't know what that means figure it out.

[BigDFan5]

I answer to no one.

If you don't know what that means figure it out.


you know your childish attitude will earn you a quick ticket out of town right?

[ConstantReboot]

Calling Roy Williams overrated is ridiculous. Everyone likes to point out that single Skins game, but they forget the huge plays he made in coverage against teams like Carolina and Philly. With one of them essentially winning us the game. I'd take that over the fluke against Washington any day of the week.


Exactly. Its a fluke. Where was the free safety then? Wasn't he supposed to be in that situation down field?

[ringmaster]

you know your childish attitude will earn you a quick ticket out of town right? I'm not going anywhere got anything else.

That's not being childish that's the straight truth.

[ZeroClub]

There aren't many players I'd put on the overrated list. Duane Thomas, maybe.

[riggo]

That's NOT how the Cowboys (and many other teams) play Cover 4. In the Cowboys' Cover 4, the safeties' primary responsibility is man-to-man coverage on the inside receiver if he runs a vertical route. The cornerbacks play man-to-man on the outside receivers. If the inside receiver does not run a vertical route, the safety can then help on the outside receiver.

On the first play, Roy's man (Cooley) ran a vertical route (a post), so Roy had NO coverage responsibility on Moss. He reacted to the ball being thrown and almost made the play anyway, but that was in no way, shape or form his responsibility. On Moss' second TD, Roy's man (Cooley) started to run a vertical route but cut it to a deep out. Even though Roy diagnosed the play early, by the time Cooley started to make his cut, it was too late for Roy to cover Moss. In that scheme against that play, the only way Roy could have been responsible for that touchdown is if he had ignored his primary responsibility on the play. That's why when Parcells was asked point-blank if Roy was responsible for Moss' TD catches, he said no, those really weren't his plays.

maybe skins and cowboys fans can agree that leaving moss in one on one coverage with a big, late lead was a bad idea?

[TunaoftheLand]

Roy Williams is overrated.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Roy Williams is overrated.


LOL......

I agree. In fact, to this day, I still have no idea why Detroit took him to begin with.

:laugh2:

[big dog cowboy]

Roy Williams is overrated.
I knew we would rue the day we drafted him.

[Derinyar]

I think its sorta interesting to look at Quincy. I think he maybe the most overrated by some and underrated by others. I don't think he was a good QB, or even an average one.

I think what leads to this is that the pro Quincy crowd has always been so ignorantly positive in their views of Quincy that they have driven the rest of us so crazy that even though he was bad but not horrible has caused us to rate him as even worse than we really thought he was.

This is not an attempt to defend Quincy in any way. I still think we got to the playoffs that year with a lot of smoke and mirrors on both offense and defense and we quite likely shouldn't have gotten there. I think Quincy's talent is overrated by a lot, if his talent was as great as some claim we wouldn't have cut him when we did.

[dboyz]

maybe skins and cowboys fans can agree that leaving moss in one on one coverage with a big, late lead was a bad idea?

I can certainly agree with that. If we're in that position again, we better have Newman on Moss with a safety over the top.

[fiveandcounting]

Considering the majority of us in here are die hard fans, it's pretty difficult to call one of our boys overrated. So I'm making this thread to see what players that get constant praise, but in your eyes are average at best.

For example, I've been saying for years that Keyshawn Johnson is a terribly overrated player. Everyone rants and raves about his blocking, but his lack of speed outweighed his 'great' downfield blocking. Key was never a threat outside of the redzone, and talks to the media like he's putting up T.O. or Moss numbers.

Honorable Mention: Larry Allen

So who do you guys think, past or present, is an overrated Cowboy?

funny I thought Flozell was until last year showed me wrong, I mean as far as won-loss with him, then won-loss without him