View Full Version : Pat Watkins question/thought/debate..
08-02-2006, 04:41 PM
I already posted this, but it was towards the end of a dying thread and I am really curious to see what you guys think about the question I ask, so I decided to make a thread of it..
with all this Pat Watkins talk, there is a debate as to whether or not fans think he can be starting by week one.. most people think it is a crazy idea and has no chance of happening.. soo...
here's an interesting question..
if we had picked Watkins in the 2nd round instead of the 5th, what would people think then? for some reason, the consensus is always that a 1st, 2nd, or even sometimes a 3rd rounder should always come in and start right away, but any pick lower than that cannot.. Why? they are all rookies having to prove themselves.. I guarantee you that the Raiders are gonna be starting Michael Huff this year.. he has to learn all the same things that Watkins does.. they both come from big-time programs that played against elite competition their entire college careers.. Watkins has the pedigree and talent of a 1st or 2nd rounder.. If Watkins and Huff both play their tails off during preseason and training camp, why would the Raiders start Huff and the Cowboys not start Watkins? Cause he fell down the draft boards? the draft boards mean zero now.. everyone is assuming that Carpenter comes in and starts right away because he was a first rounder.. well what if Watkins continues playing much better than Carpenter? it's not gonna matter.. people are gonna think that Carpenter shoud start and that Watkins isn't ready.. why? cause Carpenter was a higher pick.. kinda ridiculous.. let their play decide their fate, not some draft board..
08-02-2006, 04:48 PM
I think if he proves himself to be starter material, come week 1 he will be...he will have earned his spot...right or not where you get drafted has alot to do with what common fans think the level you can play...if he proves himself so be it, if not then he will have to work harder to become a starter.
"Let's not put him in the Hall of Fame yet"
With all the buzz around Pat Watkins, forget starter, let's think big. HOF baby. GEEZ. The guy hasn't even recorded a tackle yet. I want to see how he does after he attempts to put a big hit on a big RB, who would probably outweigh him by 20-30lbs.
Pat looks brittle to me. Hopefully in the offseason he puts on lots of muscle.
08-02-2006, 04:54 PM
I was very suprised to see Watkins fall as far as he did. He definetly has the talent, however lets not go off comparing him to Huff. I think it's very possible for him to be starting from day one.
Now on to your question. I think you are absolutely correct about our expectations as fans being based on where a player was selected. The thing is, when your team picks a player high (1-2 rounds) the team has passed on other very talented players and has invested a lot in you (both financially and putting the future of the franchise in your hands.) In the later rounds, there is less of investment since the talent pool is smaller as well as the contract sums.
In todays NFL, teams can't afford to miss on picks in the early rounds. Watkins can be just as successful as Huff (Huff is an amazing athlete, we are speaking hypothetically), however much more is expected of Huff since he was selected very early.
I don't even think I answered your question. I'm an ***.
08-02-2006, 04:55 PM
Pat Watkins fell to the 5th round because teams felt like he needed to change some of his techniques and such. Huff was drafted in the top 10 because teams felt he could step in and make an immediate impact.
So your question is moot.
08-02-2006, 04:58 PM
After the reports coming out of Oxnard, i don't think too many posters here would have a problem with the idea of him starting right away just based on his physical ability alone...
That being said, Huff isn't playing on a Parcell's team, and Watkins is. He's going to be asked to call out defensive schemes at FS. I don't think Parcells is too keen on starting a rookie at FS. I do, however, think he will see enough PT early to get him starts later in the season as his awareness improves. This is not a problem for first rounders such as Ware, whos physical ability can mask much of the learning process. If by any chance Watkins is indeed as good as the early reports, perhaps Williams could help with the defensive reads. Not sure that would be likely though. It is also possible that he's a tremendously quick learner...
I love the vibe surrounding this guy, but lets not jump the gun here.
08-02-2006, 04:58 PM
Who knows wether P. Watkins will be starting come opening day? However, to think he has no chance of starting because he is a rookie or a low round draft choice would be crazy.
08-02-2006, 05:02 PM
if we had picked Watkins in the 2nd round instead of the 5th, what would people think then? for some reason, the consensus is always that a 1st, 2nd, or even sometimes a 3rd rounder should always come in and start right away, but any pick lower than that cannot..
Because there is generally a big drop off in talent from the top tier guys into the 2nd day guys.
The first rounders are considered impact players who depending on their position should have enough talent to over-come learning the speed of the NFL game.
The 2nd rounders are usually the "He's a great player, but....." guys, players who are very good but are considered to have a hole or a question mark in their game. The 3rd rounders a little more so. These guys have the skills but there is the question if the talent is there to step in and start immediately.
After that its a crap shoot. Now you are getting into players who either excelled at small schools, have great physical talent but for some reason never produced, or who had great Junior years but fell of in the senior year, etc., etc. Its not that they *won't* be able to start, but generally speaking expecting that of them is not realistic.
Bottom line is Watkins fell for a reason. Whether it is his height or scouts saw something in film that won't translate well in the NFL or someone just plumb forgot about him we just don't know. But a lot of teams passed on him, and he certainly won't be the first player that a bunch of Mel Kipers called a 2nd round pick only to fall into the 5th and then never really amount to anything (and, vice-versa).
I don't think he will probably not start because he is a 5th round pick, I think it will be an uphill battle for him because Davis went through a big learning curve last year, and should be better prepared this year. Unless he out and out smokes Davis in TC, I don't know that the coaches would rather toss Watkins out there to learn on the job vs. easing him in over the course of the season and letting him get comfortable.
08-02-2006, 05:32 PM
If Watkins and Huff both play their tails off during preseason and training camp, why would the Raiders start Huff and the Cowboys not start Watkins? Cause he fell down the draft boards?I agree with your overall point.
It frustrates me when I hear fans putting ceilings on particular players because of where the player was drafted (or missed being drafted).
Another way to think about it, though, is that where a team drafts a particular player reflects the team's initial confidence in the player's promise.
In training camp, just a few months after the draft, the team isn't going to have the same level of confidence in a 6th round pick as they had in their 1st round pick (or else the team probably would have drafted the 6th rounder earlier).
The 6th round pick has a little more to prove: He has to prove he is better than what everyone (including his own team) thought on draft day.
It isn't like all rookies start on a level playing field, even if it seems like they should. Teams have preconceived notions about the players they draft. 1st and 2nd rounders benefit, late picks and FAs don't.
But teams differ on their ability to synthesize new information.
I think Parcells does a good job of keeping an open mind when evaluating players (i.e., irrespective of their draft status).
08-02-2006, 05:57 PM
I dont know yet if i want Watkins to be our starter. I think he could really contribute tho coming off the bench in the nickel and dime situations and maybe even as a red zone reciever.
08-02-2006, 06:08 PM
I'm thinking if he continues to show enough & Davis looks pretty decent that the Cowboys will make sure he gets in on he nickel & other packages and maybe even on redzone plays as a WR. I'm also concerned that he's physically not as strong as he could be (after next year's weight conditioning program) to handle those big WRs & tackle those big RBs/TEs. But he's smart, quicker learner & hard worker and if he "smokes Davis" as TC progresses and also shines in preseason games, I wouldn't bet against him starting. But first we got to find out if he's a TC warrior who disappears when the games begin.
08-02-2006, 06:14 PM
The best man starts. I could care less if he's the number 1 draft choice, or a free agent pickup off the street. If the guy is the best at that position, he plays.
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