For those that question BP's drafting

[burmafrd]

Consider this: Witten is a 3rd rd pick that already is a multiple Pro Bowler and one of the top 5 TE's in the game.
Canty is a 4th rd pick that is a starter and despite the lack of respect 3-4 DE's get looks to be a fixture for years.
Watkins is a 5th rd pick and looks like a steal.
Petitti is a 6th rd pick and how many of them start at a critical spot like RT?
And while the jury is still out McQuistan is a 7th rd pick that looks like a keeper.
Yes we busted on Rogers and looks like we may be disapointed in Peterman.
But just how many teams get starters later than the 4th rd? How many get gems like Watkins in the 5th? Every First RD pick we have gotten under BP is starting right now.
Actually the only place that we seem to have problems is the 2nd rd. Except for JJ and what looks like a good pick in Fasano the 2nd seems to be a bit of a problem.

[stealth]

passing judgement a little soon on watkins are we?

[burmafrd]

Maybe. But for a 5th RD pick I think we already can say that we got more then we paid for. How often can it be said that a 5th could very well be starting by the end of his rookie year?

[jazzcat22]

They were talking on the Ticket earlier today. Question of the day. How many players are on the roster that are pre-BP?

there are only 4, can you name them?

82 currently on roster, 78 are BP post BP

[DallasInDC]

RW, Ellis, Flozell, and Keith Davis would be my guess.

[Cowboys&Caps]

Greg Ellis, Flozell Adams, Roy Wiliams, Al Singleton

Im not sure about this but...well its my guess for players brought in before Parcells.

[burmafrd]

Roy, Ellis, The Hotel, and Gurode.

[jazzcat22]

RW, Ellis, Flozell, and Keith Davis would be my guess.

That's who I guessed...you got 1 wrong.

[burmafrd]

Gurode and Roy were drafted the same year, I think- the one before BP came in.

[DallasInDC]

RW, Ellis, Flozell, and Keith Davis would be my guess.

actually, wasn't gurode on theteam prior to BP. I thought BP drafted Al johnson in hisfirst year. That would make 5 unless KD was after BP.

[jazzcat22]

Roy, Ellis, The Hotel, and Gurode.

:hammer:

[Chocolate Lab]

Consider this: Witten is a 3rd rd pick that already is a multiple Pro Bowler and one of the top 5 TE's in the game.
Canty is a 4th rd pick that is a starter and despite the lack of respect 3-4 DE's get looks to be a fixture for years.
Watkins is a 5th rd pick and looks like a steal.
Petitti is a 6th rd pick and how many of them start at a critical spot like RT?
And while the jury is still out McQuistan is a 7th rd pick that looks like a keeper.
Yes we busted on Rogers and looks like we may be disapointed in Peterman.
But just how many teams get starters later than the 4th rd? How many get gems like Watkins in the 5th? Every First RD pick we have gotten under BP is starting right now.
Actually the only place that we seem to have problems is the 2nd rd. Except for JJ and what looks like a good pick in Fasano the 2nd seems to be a bit of a problem.And don't forget about Crayton and Reeves, our starting 3rd WR and 4th (maybe 3rd soon) CB.

If my boy McQuistan works out, we could have more 7th round contributors from the last few years than we had first day contributors over about a five-year period in the early 2000s. :eek:

[dargonking999]

Roy, Ellis, The Hotel, and Gurode.


money, davis was brought in BP's first year

[sago1]

Ellis was first round pick in 98 & Adams was the 2nd round pick that year; Roy Williams drafted first round in 2002 & Andre Gurode drafted in 2nd round same year. Remainder of the players all came after Parcells got here.

[DMX690]

money, davis was brought in BP's first year

That's wrong, Keith Davis was on the 2002 roster, he played a few games that year. He was release after he got shot the first time. So, it would be Roy, Davis, Adams, Ellis and Guorde

[Rack Bauer]

Funny, you could change this:

For those that question BP's drafting


to this:


For those that question BP's methods of working with Running backs


And well, you know where I'm going with this.

Funny how BP is perfect EXCEPT when it comes to Julius Jones. BP has almost completely ruined Julius Jones.


:rolleyes: X 50.

[Tennione72]

passing judgement a little soon on watkins are we?

Fasano and McQuistan to

[MichaelWinicki]

How about giving the true credit? Ireland. The two drafts Ireland has supervised has been superb in my opinion. The one Rogers/Peterman draft that Bill supervised wasn't so hot in my opinion.

[ghst187]

How about giving the true credit? Ireland. The two drafts Ireland has supervised has been superb in my opinion. The one Rogers/Peterman draft that Bill supervised wasn't so hot in my opinion.
:hammer:

I will never forget BJ Tucker and Justin Bates in the later rounds....BP's first draft with us. That was pretty embarrassing IMO.

The last two drafts have been great.

Here's a thought....
I think that Watkins has a good chance of being a better S than Whitner
Bullocks, and Ko Simpson. I thought that on draft day. No idea why Watkins slipped so far, or why Whitner went top 10....befuddling.

[lspain1]

Burnett is showing signs of life so far and he was a second rounder.

[JackMagist]

Burnett is showing signs of life so far and he was a second rounder.I had just about written Burnett off after last year. But he is looking like if he stays healthy he might be a real solid player. Solid backup and possible starter down the road so I'll holster my guns on him; unless he finds another injury.

[gbrittain]

Consider this: Witten is a 3rd rd pick that already is a multiple Pro Bowler and one of the top 5 TE's in the game.
Canty is a 4th rd pick that is a starter and despite the lack of respect 3-4 DE's get looks to be a fixture for years.
Watkins is a 5th rd pick and looks like a steal.
Petitti is a 6th rd pick and how many of them start at a critical spot like RT?
And while the jury is still out McQuistan is a 7th rd pick that looks like a keeper.
Yes we busted on Rogers and looks like we may be disapointed in Peterman.
But just how many teams get starters later than the 4th rd? How many get gems like Watkins in the 5th? Every First RD pick we have gotten under BP is starting right now.
Actually the only place that we seem to have problems is the 2nd rd. Except for JJ and what looks like a good pick in Fasano the 2nd seems to be a bit of a problem.

I dont know. Way to early to judge the drafts under Parcells a success.

The only sure things so far are Newman, Witten, and Ware.

Not to say James, Petitti, Canty, Spears, Burnett, Carpenter, Fasano, Watkins, J Jones, and etc wont prove to be the next generation of great Cowboy players.

For now I would not count those chickens until they hatch. Interestingly it could be that the lackluster or flat out bust of Peterman, Rogers, and A Johnson, that really hold the Cowboys back this year. Not saying that the Cowboys will not have a good year this year, but obviously the Cowboys biggest question marks are on the OL. Good drafting there would have been nice.

[gbrittain]

How about giving the true credit? Ireland. The two drafts Ireland has supervised has been superb in my opinion. The one Rogers/Peterman draft that Bill supervised wasn't so hot in my opinion.

Enough said!:bow:

[Bizwah]

The draft is such a crapshoot. No one is a perfect drafter...even Ozzie Newsome misses.

But the key is hitting more than missing.

Between 1994 and 2003 we missed a heckuva lot more than we hit. That was the reason we fell so hard and that's a HUGE part of the reason it's taking us so long to get back.

I think Parcells is hitting nicely....especially last year's draft.

[Cowboys&Caps]

Hey atleast we are drafting, right!! cough *** redskins *** cough

[JackMagist]

The draft is such a crapshoot. No one is a perfect drafter...even Ozzie Newsome misses.

But the key is hitting more than missing.

Between 1994 and 2003 we missed a heckuva lot more than we hit. That was the reason we fell so hard and that's a HUGE part of the reason it's taking us so long to get back.

I think Parcells is hitting nicely....especially last year's draft.I think Jeff Ireland is hitting nicely...sure Parcells has a say but he was wiffing on picks before Ireland got here. Putting Ireland in that position may be the best move Jerry has made since he hired Jimmy Johnson in 1989.

[Smashmouth24]

Petiti played like a 6th round pick starting at right tackle.

[JackMagist]

Petiti played like a 6th round pick starting at right tackle.Yes but he did it for 16 games and could very well do it again this year.

[BigDFan5]

How about giving the true credit? Ireland. The two drafts Ireland has supervised has been superb in my opinion. The one Rogers/Peterman draft that Bill supervised wasn't so hot in my opinion.

Why would you credit the scouting director in the last 2, but the coach in the one before? Shouldnt you credit the scouting director then too?

Parcells still runs the draft and picks the players Ireland doesnt. He just scouts better than lacewell

[Idgit]

Funny, you could change this:




to this:





And well, you know where I'm going with this.

Funny how BP is perfect EXCEPT when it comes to Julius Jones. BP has almost completely ruined Julius Jones.


:rolleyes: X 50.

By what possible measuring stick has BP almost completely ruined Julius Jones?

[Rack Bauer]

By what possible measuring stick has BP almost completely ruined Julius Jones?


I didn't say he has.

But if you've ever read a Julius Jones thread then there was a 99.9% chance that burmfrd posted in that thread. And there's a 99.99999999% chance he blamed Parcells, in one way or another, for Julius Jones' struggles.

[Idgit]

I didn't say he has.

But if you've ever read a Julius Jones thread then there was a 99.9% chance that burmfrd posted in that thread. And there's a 99.99999999% chance he blamed Parcells, in one way or another, for Julius Jones' struggles.

Oh. Whoosh.
I knew there was a good reason I had burmfrd on ignore.

[Rack Bauer]

Oh. Whoosh.
I knew there was a good reason I had burmfrd on ignore.


He's on my ignore list too. I just know what he's posting w/o even reading it.


*smack smack* Julius Jones is great. Marion Barber is average at best. * smack smack*


I'll let your own imagination determine what I meant by "smack smack".

[SupermanXx]

He's on my ignore list too. I just know what he's posting w/o even reading it.


*smack smack* Julius Jones is great. Marion Barber is average at best. * smack smack*


I'll let your own imagination determine what I meant by "smack smack".

uh, fap fap squirt?

[burmafrd]

Gee, rack, you figured it out. JJ does have the talent to be great and MB doesn't- which is what everyone except MB homers agree on. The problem with JJ is two fold: BAD luck on injuries and a head coach that messed with his head. BP did not quite get it right in figuring out how to handle JJ; and the two hand crap and 'NO NEGATIVE PLAYS" crap messed with his mind. I hope that BP has decided to step back and let JJ be JJ. The carolina game gives me hope. I am so glad that I don't have to deal with rack much; it was almost as much a chore as dealing with kartr. Just as dumb.

[Vintage]

Wow. Rack called it.

Literally.

Word for word.

[burmafrd]

Did not want to disapoint the poor kid. BUT I was not the one that brought up JJ here in this thread. I admit I have a real bias for JJ- no problem admitting that. Problem with rack and others is that they will never admit a bias for or against anyone. I hated TO but once he was a Boy I decided to give him a chance. Its only fair and lets face it- TO only did what he was allowed to get away with. I think that the boys will not make the same mistake the 49rs and birds did.
As far as this thread- it would be nice if rack and others actually did try and become part of it instead of bringing in other items. But then some people have no discipline.

[CrazyCowboy]

I give alot of the credit to Jeff Ireland and I believe BP would also

[wileedog]

How about giving the true credit? Ireland. The two drafts Ireland has supervised has been superb in my opinion. The one Rogers/Peterman draft that Bill supervised wasn't so hot in my opinion.

And if Bill wasn't here I firmly believe Lacewell would still be running drafts (poorly). ;)

Seriously, mad props to Ireland, he's been money so far.

[burmafrd]

It is sad that it took so long for us to get rid of Lacewell despite all the lousy drafts.

[Doomsday101]

I think Ireland deserves a lot of credit but at the end of the day it is still BP and Jerry who pull the trigger on who we select. If the player is a bust that is on them and if they pan out that also is on them

[JackMagist]

I think Ireland deserves a lot of credit but at the end of the day it is still BP and Jerry who pull the trigger on who we select. If the player is a bust that is on them and if they pan out that also is on themI might agree with that if it weren't for the fact that the results were so dramatically and immediately improved as soon as Ireland took over. I don't think it is a coincidence.

[burmafrd]

You are only as good at making the decisions as the data you use to make them. Now its fair to say that JJ maybe ain't that good; but it seems clear that the info he and the others were using was not of the best quality.

[Doomsday101]

I might agree with that if it weren't for the fact that the results were so dramatically and immediately improved as soon as Ireland took over. I don't think it is a coincidence.

Ireland is giving them good information on players but he does not select the player, he gives input which is what the head of scouting is suppose to do but it is still the GM and HC who have to make the call. I take nothing away from Ireland but in the end it is the responsiblity of Jerry and BP to make the final call.

[wileedog]

I might agree with that if it weren't for the fact that the results were so dramatically and immediately improved as soon as Ireland took over. I don't think it is a coincidence.

I think you also have to take into account we have drafted defense heavily the past two years. Parcells can draft LBers all day long without Ireland's help.

Parcell's biggests busts pre-Ireland have been on the offensive side of the ball. His biggest hit on that side is Witten, a TE. Again, Parcells can pick those in his sleep.

When we successfully draft some O-lineman and skill players (jury still out on Julius), places where we have struggled pre-Ireland, then I'll start throwing (even) more credit his way.

[iceberg]

Consider this: Witten is a 3rd rd pick that already is a multiple Pro Bowler and one of the top 5 TE's in the game.
Canty is a 4th rd pick that is a starter and despite the lack of respect 3-4 DE's get looks to be a fixture for years.
Watkins is a 5th rd pick and looks like a steal.
Petitti is a 6th rd pick and how many of them start at a critical spot like RT?
And while the jury is still out McQuistan is a 7th rd pick that looks like a keeper.
Yes we busted on Rogers and looks like we may be disapointed in Peterman.
But just how many teams get starters later than the 4th rd? How many get gems like Watkins in the 5th? Every First RD pick we have gotten under BP is starting right now.
Actually the only place that we seem to have problems is the 2nd rd. Except for JJ and what looks like a good pick in Fasano the 2nd seems to be a bit of a problem.

witten - score.
canty - um...let's let players play before we just buy the hype and forget the reality. jury WAY out to date.
watkins - again, let him at least play ONE FRIGGING NFL game before we call him a "score".
petitti - i like him as much as anyone and hope he pans out. if you go by last year alone jury is still out. again, hype/potential is one thing, but it seems ALL players have it at first. let it ride a bit longer before we call him "all that", ok?
mcquistian - again, WAY TOO EARLY to tell.

it does sound like you're getting pretty full eating all the hype, so dig in man. it's a hype-buffet and you're heads down in it!

[burmafrd]

Of course it is early- too early to really tell- but the signs are very good. And with the excellent job done last year as an indicator, optimism is not unfounded.

[iceberg]

Of course it is early- too early to really tell- but the signs are very good. And with the excellent job done last year as an indicator, optimism is not unfounded.

it's rarely ever "unfounded" this time of the year. my point is to let's put off canonizing BP until we see how the players pan out. it seems each and every year we're hyped about our pics, sure. it's what we do as fans. but again, you give 3-4 years to judge a draft and in some cases you're going 1 year to hell, a few practices.

[burmafrd]

You just do not want to give BP any props is all. He has rebuilt this franchise so that when he is gone they will still be solid contenders. And he has done that mostly with the draft.

[Cochese]

If anyone has any problems with Parcells drafting, please refer to the Jerry Jones drafts after Jimmy left and thank god those days are gone.

[iceberg]

If anyone has any problems with Parcells drafting, please refer to the Jerry Jones drafts after Jimmy left and thank god those days are gone.

seperate issue. but i'll still wait and see how *any* drafts pans out before i run around and do something silly like sing the praises of mcquistian as a stroke of genious.

[burmafrd]

Not a separate issue. Same team, remember? Just shows the difference between a TOP coach and those that were not.

[Cochese]

seperate issue. but i'll still wait and see how *any* drafts pans out before i run around and do something silly like sing the praises of mcquistian as a stroke of genious.

I dont see how its a seperate issue. Without considering this years draft, Parcells has been able to draft NFL players that will have futures in the league when for a while we would be lucky to hit on one NFL caliber player per draft.

[iceberg]

I dont see how its a seperate issue. Without considering this years draft, Parcells has been able to draft NFL players that will have futures in the league when for a while we would be lucky to hit on one NFL caliber player per draft.

it's a seperate issue simply because yes, jjones sucked at drafting. i'm not saying bp has not done a good job drafting overall, i'm saying i'm not gonna get to day 4 in camp and proclaim parcells genious over this last draft.

let's say it *Does* pan out - great. goob job! he rules and all.

now if it doesn't, you'll hear excuse after excuse from people who "sing praises" early as to why reality didn't keep up with their early facination of *wanting* these players to pan out.

in the end i don't care who drafts - you wait 3 or so years before you call any draft a huge score. some people wanna do it after 3 days in minicamp and i think that's just a TAD premature.

[iceberg]

Not a separate issue. Same team, remember? Just shows the difference between a TOP coach and those that were not.

my point is you won't know WHAT it shows till these players have a chance to play.

like, in an NFL game.

[burmafrd]

Canty, etc have already proven that. I agree Watkins and the other guys this year have to prove themselves, but early returns look very good.

[CowboysFaninDC]

Consider this: Witten is a 3rd rd pick that already is a multiple Pro Bowler and one of the top 5 TE's in the game.
Canty is a 4th rd pick that is a starter and despite the lack of respect 3-4 DE's get looks to be a fixture for years.
Watkins is a 5th rd pick and looks like a steal.
Petitti is a 6th rd pick and how many of them start at a critical spot like RT?
And while the jury is still out McQuistan is a 7th rd pick that looks like a keeper.
Yes we busted on Rogers and looks like we may be disapointed in Peterman.
But just how many teams get starters later than the 4th rd? How many get gems like Watkins in the 5th? Every First RD pick we have gotten under BP is starting right now.
Actually the only place that we seem to have problems is the 2nd rd. Except for JJ and what looks like a good pick in Fasano the 2nd seems to be a bit of a problem.

the thing that stands out from this post and I have mentioned it before, no one and i mean no one in the NFL hits on every draft pick. the point being you will find good ones and you keep them and cut your mistakes short and move on. you don't linger over mistakes, because, well that's a mistake. its the hateful fans who want to keep scratching old wounds to get the blood flowing again and like to point out negatives instead of focusing on the positive.

yes, we missed draft picks, but we also hit on draft picks. its not an exact science. everyteam does it that way. there is no GM, coach in the league that has hit on all picks. even the great bilicheck and shanahan have made mistakes. shanahan drafted clarett in the 3rd round!!! passed up on canty.